Ivern is my favorite champ in the game, i love his goofy and fun personality. League has so many edgy champs, Ivern's like a breath of fresh air. Galio and Bard are the same to me. I wish Riot would release some more champs in the same vain as them. Take a break from the edgy champs riot we need more goofy champs.

Its good to remember that Maokai and Ivern can share the same character "template", but also have 2 different origin types that are basically reverses, one being a tree that becomes more "human", while Ivern is a human that became more like a tree. Maokai becoming something less natural while Ivern something more entranced with nature.

I feel as though the reason Ivern doesn't have any voicelines for Lissandra and the Iceborn is specifically because they don't *matter* to him anymore. He has spent so many years as the God-Willow that he has transcended above the beliefs and ideals that humans or even demigods would have. All that matters to him is helping the world grow and understand the cycle of life. As such, things that used to be important to him no longer are. And I think that's actually kind of terrifying - the spirit or magic that possessed him has wiped him clean and turned him into a completely different person. Nothing of the old Ivern remains. That's just how scary nature can be. That's why I think that some of the art that he is in is intentionally drawn to be somewhat unsettling.

TB: you could just take out the war lord backstory. The Godwillow: Good Idea!

Maybe they could have added in his past cruelty as a resolve to know that anyone, no matter how cruel, can change.

Just from the way you described the backstory, it didn't sound like a dark or tragic backstory. I agree that his character should utilize his backstory more. I like that he was a cruel leader and it should show more in the way he teaches, it would add a lot to his character.

Yeah, I wish it was more like "I don't remember who I was, perhaps a hunter myself or maybe a lumberjack."

The iceborn where servants of the watchers, I don't think its ever been confirmed that the watchers are from the void, but the one mural of them we have on howling abyss looks an awful lot like Vel'Koz

tb skyen: "thats a simple design trick that makes a character so much relatable. its the same thing for the iron giant" me: (SHAKING BC THE IRON GIANT IS MY FAVORITE MOVIE)

Lissandra isn't the queen of the watchers, she's someone who lost her sight and had it restored by the watchers. She wants to bring the watchers back but she was only an underling

I want to be chased by Ivern while flowers sprout with each step he takes.

I think I actually like the tragic backstory, just because seeing the transition from evil and bloodthirsty to entirely wholesome and caring for all was nice fro me to read. It doesn't take away from his current form, but I agree that giving it a resolution would be a lot better. Maybe he can get a callback when the Watchers return?

While I really do understand your criticism of Ivern's lore I do find myself disagreeing with your point that the whole Conqueror story is just unnecessary. Personally I think what is so interesting about Ivern as a character and his lore is the fact that in essence he is a very human expression of an aspect of nature. Nature as a character in both League lore and otherwise doesn't really retaliate or intervene but just continues on. Ivern instead, while embodying this idea, is the human expression in execution. Instead of just standing by and continuing on he as a former now half-human meddles and intervenes in the different events, like with the hunters in the short story. The focus of his former existence as a conqueror then not only works as the antithesis to his new existence in the sense that he has stopped his violent behavior but is also reflected in his character through his interventions. As a normal freljordian human he did what he had to do to make his own position and by proxy the situation of Freljord better. And with single-minded focus he cuts down his enemies and in the end the God-Willow. Instead of this working out however the change that befell him because of it changes both his methods, stopping aggression and violence, and his goal, as it isn't focused on Freljord anymore but encompasses all of nature essentially, but not the way that his character goes about doing those things and that is with a human stubborness that probably aided him in his time as a Conqueror and now helps him in pursuing the goal of achieving harmony for all life. In conclusion I do believe that presenting Ivern's past in this way was important and while he didn't necessarily have to be a freljordian conqueror it certainly helps to both act as the aforementioned antithesis and to push a narrative that even the worst of the worst, if you want to say it that way, can change if they are given the option to listen and learn. It really works with the wholesome image that Ivern presents in my opinion and I just don't think it would have worked completely the same way with some random lumberjack that just happens upon some Willow cuts it down, and gets changed. Would there have been other options for the origin story? I bet there were and still are multiple good ones. However the current does, atleast in my opinion, work quite well with the character they were trying to present and is presented in the lore and short story. Just thought I'd share my take on this. Love your videos ^^

Skyen, I found your channel recently, and man, you have quickly become one of my favorite content creators. Thanks!

You responded to me on the Bilgewater video and it only gave me more respect for you. When I have money to give on Patreon you dang well better know I'm gonna do it! With Ivern I find you have kinda hit the nail right on the head. From his shoehorned in backstory about the Iceborn and being a Freljordian warlord, all the way to his design as an asymmetric treant who really gives off a vibe of "cheerful yet still very alien looking creature". My favorite part about Ivern is definitely his understanding of the relationships between all different parts of nature. The nod to butterflies being messengers who spread information like we see happen in everything from LoTR to Bleach was a cool bit. The one bit where I get why they did it, but still feels kind of contrived is how Humanity is sooo far out of his understanding even though he has been one in the past. With all of that time he spent wandering he never learned much except for the most basic, naive understanding of human cruelty and malice? I guess my point here is I want to see story progression happen in the League universe. They keep laying groundwork and going nowhere with it. The Void storyline is on hold for who knows how long after the AMAZING "Where Icathia Once Stood" and I just hate to see them fall out of the public eye even more than they already were.

scariest character in the game.

Your Ivern voice is gold XD

It's funny, when I first found the channel I thought "the content is really good, but it's kind of annoying that he doesn't script and edit his videos to make them more concise": However, I've been subscribed for a few weeks and I've come to love your style of videos. There's just something really charming about you simply finding a topic you wanna talk about and just talking, with no real script. Like, I'm sure you do make a list of points you wanna touch on, but it feels more like a general checklist than a proper script, and I think that's what makes your channel unique and refreshing. Whenever I watch your videos, I just feel as if you were a friend of mine talking to me while we're hanging out. Seriously, don't change, I love your rambling style! :D

Excellent video it’s nice to hear someone else who likes Ivern’s design instead commenting that he’s creepy or terrible in true nature.

I want to play Ivern now

In my opinion, Ivern's past as a warlord serves to highlight the wholesome message about the potential of humanity: Even the worst of us can be taught better. His dark past has no more bearing on who he is now because he has healed so far past it that it's not even tragic anymore. And in that way, I'd say it does nothing to take away from his character; and serves to exemplify the core of hope and positivity that is so central to him.

The tragic backstory thing is kinda...odd. There's a trend in modern media that making things "realistic" or "deep" means emphasizing the negative aspects of everything. Add a dark backstory to the Greenfather, put Superman in a situation where he's forced to kill (in his first movie), turn the one nice alien race into space space nazis, whatever. That's is _not_ any deeper or more realistic than the trend it was responding to (ie, unabashed optimism with unproblematic heroes and easy victories and whatnot). The truth and depth comes from a synthesis of good and bad, pleasure and pain, joy and sorrow, for the world contains both, and neither clearly dominates. Even the darkest chapters in human history have heartwarming moments of people acting humanely; even the greatest triumphs of mortality are tinged with cruelty. Authors do no good to themselves, their audience, nor their culture when they act like a story (historical or fictional) must be optimistic or pessimistic, bright or dark, happy or sad, for the real world is all of these...and so are the best stories.

Listening to you be so passionate about character designs really puts a smile on my face. And watching these gives me a lot of insight on how to properly right a character? I'm practicing my writing skills on and off, but in the mean time I've been designing a handful of characters that I like.

You can't brag about Ivern not knowing how it is to be human. He has an interaction in which he literally confirms HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO WEAR SHOES.

Can't be a little happy without knowing what sadness feels like.

Iverns the character that got me into league

What are your thoughts on Illaoi? She is one of my favorite characters in League, both design wise and gameplay wise. I love your analyses, and would love to hear your insight on her

I think it would be way more interesting if he were a lumberjack that was resquested by the ruined king (before the corruption) to cut the willow as a requirement of the ritual, it would give the willow a role, make the story simpler and keep him tied to the universe and its history.

i think it’s a nice story of redemption

He must be bloodthirsty conqueror in his backstory, you said it yourself - now he's a good guy, so that shows the character development dynamic

29:50 don't visualize it, don't visualize it, don't visualize it. *AHHHHHHH I VISUALIZED IT*

dude your videos are so good how do you only have 32k. Thank you for the wonderful content. Keep it up man

I reaaaaally love to draw character designs while listening to these videos because while I'm drawing,I hear a nitpick of yours and I kinda redraw it because of your advice. It's really fun o learn this way and see the difference between my lazy and boring designs and the modified design that is absolutely right in any shape or form(not counting my drawing skills....xd)

GOD. I love long and detail videos.

I think they designed Ivern with the image of that bike that got stuck inside and the tree grew around it, eventually consuming it

I like the way ivern lore works as whole Including his transformation from cruel to nice Even though the execution could have been better

Ivern’s backstory isn’t supposed to be tragic. Its about redemption and how life is for even the cruelest of us.

I really love Ivern and the Freljord is either my favorite region or a close second. So I really hope that in the future they can make better use of Ivern story. Considering I’m posting this 4 years after this video came out and nothings really changed yet even with a good opportunity like the Udyr rework, I don’t have much hope for the immediate future. I am gonna put this out there, if Ivern Lillia and Lissandra meet up somehow, I feel like they could have an interesting solution to the Watcher’s situation. With Lillia’s dream tree origin’s, Ivern’s god tree powers, and Lissandra’s frozen dream thing, I feel like they could do something interesting.

I don't see any of the edge or tragedy of the start of his story. Honestly, I saw it as a little tongue-in-cheek. Like, they knew they were making this unabashedly nice treeman so they have him be a super brutal warlord, even called Ivern the Cruel! I truly believe it's a joke.

I also wonder if the horn-like features on his head are meant to evoke the past as well - not familiar with the lore but it sounds like a barbarian or viking-type character and perhaps the hornlike "ears" are also a remnant of the past. again, this could be way off but I'm curious if that's an angle they considered

for me ivern is about how much a human can change if you just give them enough time i mean the wish there was more callback and its strange that he doesnt know how its to be human, but I guess hes been a tree for too long

I don't know, if Ivern used to be a simple lumberjack or hunter before, I think I'd find it more tragic and it'd paint the magic and the god-willow in a much more sinister manner in my opinion. Like, this simple person who's just trying to get by in his life cuts down this tree that he doesn't know the importance of and is then totally transformed and stripped of his past life and identity to pursue this new friend of nature goal forever. At least with him being this cruel invader, you feel that this is what he had coming and is problably the best outcome for him.

I liked the excess lore just cause it comes across as a perspective comparing him to someone like ashe who's dedicated her whole life to dealing with that shit while ivern just dosn't care anymore, which does also come across in his short story where he is in no hurry to save that young girl the snake bites and i think it comes down to the same thing you talked about with bard on a lesser extent where because the ants and the mushrooms and all the little creatures have the same value to him as a human life he can be too passive about the human in the equation. So, he's like why would i go back to the fiord to save those hundreds of people when i need to stay here and keep this squirrel family safe? and as far as not having enough voice lines for particular champions i'm always mad that almost all champs don't talk to people that have lore connections to them i mean come on miss fortune and sona still mention summoners and trydamere only has 13 voice lines and three of them are him laughing they just need to get on that shit.

I loved this video. Thank you

"Oh god, this video is 30 minutes." Dude, it's cool. I'm about to head over to your seraphine video.

Hi I've commented this a couple times before but, could you do one of these videos about Yorick, maybe commenting his old and new models and lore? Also, great video! I hope you keep this work and kind of videos for a long time!

I actually like that he was not only originally a man but someone who's life made them what could be seen as a monster to some not only be forced to take responsibility for their actions but to ultimately make changes in the world and not to mention he can now live for hundreds of years...making the best of a bad situation

I would love to see you talk about the character designs and NPC designs in the halo franchise.

I wish we had more plant characters in league

so the deal with ivern is pretty similar to pike in that riot is inconsistent with their story teams art teams and design teams.

Malki: "No lips, only rage"

I love the "dislike button" bits at the end. They're just great. Also love Ivern a lot.

these videos makes me wanna main these champions

I'd love if you talked about Shen's design. His lore is kinda interesting and the fact of him being this cold basically judge of both of the worlds is quite unique in a way since his judgement isn't based on motives or actions, it's purely about numbers. His ninja look doesn't sell that idea in my opinion.

The warboys in mad max fury road are a really good example of "same concept but each one is unique" imo

Ivern's backstory is basically Mordekaiser + Better Seraphine.... That's kinda low key awesome, imo

I'm commenting so the algorithm will show mercy to you.

You CAN show Ivern was a bad human without the tragic backstory. Say, what if he was born in a well-off family so he never understood the importance of nature? When he was older he wants to build himself a nice place so he makes people who was under him cut down a large portion of the forest, but they refused to take down the ancient tree. Annoyed by this, he snatched the axe from a man and cut the tree himself. Then he was cursed and saw all these visions that opened his eyes. just an idea I had after listening to your analysis.

I think you are an amazing analysts and your long videos are the best in my opinion. A small criticism I have is that you do now show the examples you reference. If you talk about the iron giants eyes, you should pull it up to make your point hit harder.

Am I the only one that finds him scarier than Maokai?

Can you do a what’s the deal with Teemo?

I believe the reason that ivern acts the way he does towards the hunter is because he has spent so long away from humans he himself forgot what it means to be human and how to interact with humans

Ivern should have been a Lumberjack. That way he already has a connection to nature AND it gives him a reason to go after the tree. Deffo agree

I honestly watch you videos for your explanations on why the dislike button is dangerous. It’s really entertaining. :)

Well I dunno what the dealio is, but please tell me

I love your voice and this video.

The fact that his entire personality before transforming into the god willow has been seemingly completely erased is a bit... creepy in my opinion. Even if he was evil, even if this is probably not even an intentional choice from riot, it implies that tree has most likely completely erased the person he was against his will over time, even if he did show remorse right after he transformed and all that the lack of connection with his past self feels that way to me (which is the reason it would be great and awesome if we literally ever received story updates for champions)

One thing I want to put out there is that in League theres this unspoken rule that Lore doesn't equal game play. Now its not as apparent for Ivern, but I've seen you kinda come across this issue before, and especially with Pyke, so I think that you should take that into account for your future videos, theres just the case sometimes where either the Lore doesn't come across very well in the game for many reasons, maybe there was a disconnect between the lore team and the others, or its just not possible to bring in ALL the parts of the Lore cleanly into the game or, and one the most important things some parts don't transition due to clarity needing to be maintained.

Maybe they gave that backstory to make him feel connected to Runterra,considering that being a hunter that becomes all Greenpeace/PETA activist via "nature teaching him a lesson" could feel really disconnected in a world where war, conflict and darkness is so predominant.

Hey T B, have thought about doing a ''What's the deal with...?'' of the characters of Vainglory?

could you do a video on the superman animation from 1940?

what's the deal with Tryndamere? I love this character so much sense my first time playing league but, i allways thought that his lore is a little bit to be desired. With the reework of AAtrox, what do you think that riot should do to his lore?

Pleaseeee make a whats the deal with Ezreal ToT

Ivern looks scary to humans (initially, at least), but to animals, he must be some kind of vaguely benevolent eldritch being. He is vastly older than any animal can imagine and looks a lot like the things that regularly come to cut down trees and hunt them. Plus, he knows all of them and is kind to them, but he’s also totally fine with them being killed, either by each other or by humans. To a wild animal with very limited priorities and considerations beyond staying alive, being told that it’s fine if you die because of some greater ‘’cycle of life’’ beyond your understanding must be even weirder than Ivern is to humans. It’s like if we met a super advanced alien who was friendly to us, but remained unfazed when some other entity showed up to kill us, and the reason why it wouldn’t help was impossible to understand.

Now that I have seen this video I feel like you are right that ivern would make a lot more sense lore wise if he hadn't been a human before and if they had removed that he would be much more loveable, because ivern is just a great cheery character that I personally just love to death, and I try to compensate for myself the fact that ivern the cruel is dead, because he got lost in his viewing of the world

You should do desing analysis for pokemon. Some of them draw on many interesting references and comunicate mostly through theur desing, as the actual lore description for most is very lacking. Its also massively popular and a nice way to engage a new audience in your videos.

Hey there, I like your videos pretty much. The analisys is very deep and full of details. I wonder if you read/watch One Piece. That series has wonderful characters and I would like to see a video of you analizing their design. Anyway, much love bro

Are u gonna post more dark souls stuff?:(

Could you do an episode about Sombra from Overwatch. The 'Hacker' archetype is difficult to do in a first person shooter, and I think that Overwatch does her well, both in backstory, and character design.

Can you talk about Kled?

If you touch the topic of a wholesome character you could do a Braum vid. Also love your shit! I've seen your first vid like almost a year ago and watch you ever since. Keep it up!

your vids actually help me understand so many things about writing and designing visuals, thank you! You're doing great man p.s. pleaaaase do a video on Vayne :(

Lol I don’t even think ivern even remembers what he did to become a tree :) like a “rebirth”

I never even noticed Maokai has eyebrows

That must be why Teemo never shows his eyes. He's meant to not have a soul. No wonder he's so hated!

I feel like the fluff at the start is letting you experience him growing as a character, I feel like it could've been drawn out so it could contrast with his changing personality

ivern lissandra and evelynn are my favorite champions. lissandra my first main ( that champ thats hits your eye on the list when you start playing ) ivern cause he is so peaceful and unique and evelynn cause i love her character and theme

What's the deal with Zilean?

TB, did you know most characters in League make no footsteps? Theres almost no audio for it in the game. But I git what you were saying with Maioki

What's the deal whit Kled for any time in the future or any opinions on him?

You can live without violence, but have you seen his execute true dmg? No pain I guess.

Ivern is basically Groot, just a more hippie and high on drugs kind

Sylvanas from WoW pls :D

What’s the song at 25:20 ?

Please tell me what's the deal with Mundo

I feel like its just been to long he's forgotten what he is and I don't believe he was a cruel warlord he was selfless and he'd take everything for his tribe

Whats the deal with Noxus plzzzz

COme on! Do Tiwtch pleaseeeee :C

Personally I like that ivern was a shit head before he was turned, it was to show that even the worst people given the chance can grow if they have the seed of redemption, and the God tree saw the seed of good in ivern letting it watch what he needed to see, listen to what he didn't understand before he could go out and grow. At least that's my headcannon.

would it be funny or ironic if Riot released an iceborn skin for Ivern?