Keep it up. You might be onto something...

Nice

Love it! You can clearly see how the tapered segments are "skipping" on the armor from the angle of the taper. Would a thicker jacket make a difference? Speaking of which, how about some armor-tests? I was thinking something along the lines of the ribbed armor on the S-tank, but instead of square ribs use triangular ones at a shallow angle, or even sinusoidal. Basically using the geometry to have several parts of the armor at the critical ricochet angle, without needing to slope it as aggressively.

@@PwntifexMaximus thanks, a thicker jacket might help but it's quite ductile unfortunately. I've thought of that triangular ribs idea before but the critical angle of apfsds is so steep that it wouldnt really work :/

I'm so glad you finally took the conventional cannon max muzzle velocity into consideration.

APFSDS is overall the best kind of penetrator. Technically I think HESH cares even less about armor sloping than APFSDS (if you're just dealing with plain old monolithic steel), but composite armor or even simple spaced armor will degrade HESH far more than it would APFSDS.

Step 2: ??? Step 3: World domination!

Now you know what ammo type to stock up on for when you buy that t-80 you've had your eye on at the local dealership.

This SY Animation Has done HeSH against slope

@@gareththompson2708 HESH deals more damage when successful but is very weak against ERA or spaced armor. APFSDS tries to retain the same damage while increasing penetration I think

Good point. Maybe you could shape the segments like they did with WW2 caped shells. would be really interesting to dig deeper into this.

@@peterfruchtig5334 I wonder what capping would do to the long projectile. Could it make it tumble as the cap deforms?

True, but that might not be as good for flatter armor pieces.

@@ayylmao1558 If digging through straight steel doesnt make you tumble then t his wouldnt either

Good point. Any vibration from parts sliding and flexing of the joint will demolish projectile's precision. On the other hand, penetrator will likely unfold in the cannon's barrel, still being held by the sabot and armies already use WP shells filled with liquid mixture, which also seems ballistically unstable.

I think there might also be a problem with the telescoping simulation in general, this software has a limitation in that it doesn't properly model projectiles shattering on impact. I imagine the thinner amount of material from the telescoped tungsten tube wouldn't actually penetrate properly but break apart on impact.

@@picklepepper900 Yes. You'd think that shooting a hollow pipe at armor would mean the material of the armor enters the pipe and bursts it. That is the whole point of PELE projectiles after all. They are made of a hard pipe sleeve filled with a soft material like aluminium or led. When it hits a target, the material of the target enters the pipe, compresses the softer filling and thus bursts and explodes the harder sleeve pipe. The point is that you can create a explosive splintering effect without actually using explosives. This simulation makes it look as if a hollow pipe would just act like a solid rod, which just can't be the case. So I have to call BS on this whole simulation.

@@TrangleC Well at such high velocities, with sufficient ductility and strength, even the telescope would undergo fluid penetration, which is much different to PELE which are travelling substantially slower than a cannon round. Although I have to agree with you and the telescoped rounds have lower mass, you would expect slightly less penetration, as it just won’t have the energy required to keep the metal behaving as a plastic. Telescoped rounds have the obvious advantage of a higher rate of fire in any cannon, which would likely out weigh reduced penetrative power. For RHA, I know that you can see at least 140mm of penetration at a range of 1.5km with a muzzle velocity of 1500ms, which isn’t bad at all.

@@ollie4022 I think you are confusing a few things here. You seem to be talking about the telescope ammunition for the 40mm machine cannon on some Infantry Fighting Vehicles. We are talking about telescoping APFSDS rods for the 120 to 125mm cannons of Main Battle Tanks here. Those are two totally different things. The 40mm ammo is called "telescoped" because the otherwise regular projectile is encased in a sleeve of propellant before being fired, making it shorter. The APFSDS rods we are talking about are "telescoping" because the projectile itself is separated into a rod and a tube which extend in flight on the way to the target. So rate of fire has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. We are just comparing different types of projectile fired from the same full sized MBT cannons here. Also, PELE is just another type of APFSDS projectile for those 120mm tank guns and has the same projectile velocity as the other types of APFSDS ammo fired by those guns.

ERA would prabably take some of the jacket off of the trailing telescopic sabot, leaving the rest of the projectile with plenty of mass to penetrate the target.

@@engineer84-w8x and yet instead of doing that the us miltary was like, hmm, a small steel tip shall do (even though it probobley does bassicley nothing)

If memory serves, the Army tested telescoped rounds in the 80's, but deemed them too vulnerable to manufacturing defects and active measures like ERA despite the potential increase in performance.

Ha

Ha

Ha

@@jamesharding3459 yeah era has always been a huge concern with the USA. That is why nearly all 4 of their upgrades to their apfds has been to defeat it

I had the same Question

I would like to see how HEAT behaves against highly sloped armor, assuming it detonates in the first place.

@@JoakimfromAnka I believe it would bounce off at high angles if we’re talking about WW2 cumulative charges. HEATFS I believe is the same case as I’ve heard it’s only used for long ranges due to ricochets at short ranges

1. this design (blunt tip + ballistic cap works well both at relatively low velocities of WWII-era guns and APFSDS. APFSDS are blunt too and have ballistic caps. the cap is actually helping to increase penetration, not hindering it.

@@Burboss I was referring to the cap that is made of soft metal, not the ballistic cap. I believe I got this info on a WoT forum

@@retrominskis1552 ballistic cap is made of aluminum. its used both for aerodynamic purposes and to improve shell normalization on impact.

yes indeed it does help the regular old 125mm autoloading apfsds users

dont forget that the forces you are thinking of are actually constrained by the speed of sound, which these rounds are easily going multiples of times faster. By the time the projectile is going slow enough for forces felt on the tip to be felt by the rear it probably doesnt have much penetration left to do anyway

​@@facepalm7345sound moves much faster in solid objects .

This question seems to be going into the direction of "overpen". When solid projectiles have far greater pen than the amour has thicknes the shell just passes without deformation and shrapnells.

Projectile diameter is only the matter. Hole size is the same for a given shell size no matter the speed

It 100% would, the projectile has been stabilized in the simulation

At lower velocities possibly, but the huge velocity of the projectile probably negates that.

The steel acted as an additional barrier for the tungsten to penetrate. Also the steel jacket being crushed against the steel plate will dissapate energy.

They don't, it's a proposed shape theorized by the maker of the video. That's why people are skeptical and why in the video it looks artificially stabilized.

Pretty sure the front has so much energy instead of slowing down and allowing the back to catch up its just disintegrating

Probably worse

I'm not an expert but I believe it's related to the velocity of the propelling gas molecules in the gun. The projectile can only be accelerated as fast as the gas molecules are moving, which depends on the temperature and the mass of the molecules. The temperature is limited by the materials of the gun and the chemical energy of the propellant. The mass of the molecules is determined by the explosive used, but is essentially fixed as most explosives are nitro organic compounds so the gases are mostly CO2, H2O and N2. To achieve ultra-high velocities in the lab, a light gas gun is used: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-gas_gun. These use hydrogen or helium to propel the projectile, but aren't practical for weapons.

5mm thick walls of tungsten pipe and a solid tungsten cone on the front of the dart.

I think it wouldn't be enough explosive to make a difference, but that would be cool to see!

Hi, this is something I'm interested to test as there is plenty of info regarding how effective liquids are against normal bullets; id be curious to see how fuel fairs against small calibre apfsds though

Now I'm curios about this too

The hollow part of the telescoping rod is filled with the solid core in the back at launch and extends further out as it flies through the air so there would be no room to have it packed with explosives when it was fired.

look into Explosively Formed Penetrators

idk why but seeing an esix pfp in the youtube comments did me a heckin spook

It should, the way the turret screens work is they destabilise the round which then impacts with greatly reduced force. As long as the penetrator is longer than the distance between where the screen was hit and the actual turret face the rod will remain stable and the screens will have very little effect.

@@Scarecrow2596 In theory. Worst case scenario: the screen breaks the telescoping penetrator in two or bends it enough to heavily reduce penetration. Best case scenario: the longer penetrator keeps the screen from destabilizing the penetrator and the 25% extra penetration will cleave straight through the turret armor.

@@TheCoolParnell yes in theory but telescoping APFSDS as a whole is little more than a theory for now

The advantage there that the projectile length has increased.

not for aerodynamics

It's always difficult at first, but try different sources for the materials and different damage evolution values

@@SYsimulations even pulling values off of a stress chart has me sweating lol

well they take up less space in the tank, and are easier to store while offering the benefits of a longer shell.

I do not think such manufacturer method and metallurgy is well documented?

Manufacturing defects and heavy era can more easily destabilize it

It exists but isn't in service anywhere

@@SYsimulations Hmm, then there must be some other not immediately obvious flaw/downside, I'd assume every military with MBTs would jump on something so much more powerful.

@@lazyman7505 there are issues with how it extends in real life, and accuracy issues associated with that. Also it adds complexity

@@SYsimulations Hmm, I was just rewatching the video and it seems strange that the sleeve would act as if it was rigid. It's hollow tube after all and should crumble from the resistance of the material. Also - it's a tube so even if it 'cuts' a path, there is still material left in the middle section (the 'cutout') that would cause it to deform.

the same effect is easier to achieve by increasing mass and length of the APFSDS core, e.g. using larger caliber gun

It would have a skill issue getting to the target