Testing Smart Automatic Water Shutoff Valves

Testing Smart Automatic Water Shutoff Valves | Ask This Old House

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4 жыл бұрын

Ask This Old House plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey tests two different styles of smart automatic water shutoff valves
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Cost: $600 and up
Shopping List:
Point-activated smart water shutoff valve [amzn.to/2LpThh1]
Valve body-activated smart water shutoff valve [amzn.to/2ySW53z]
Steps for testing smart automatic water shutoff valves:
1. Kevin and Richard recap that any smart automatic water shutoff valve can both help prevent catastrophic bursts and minimize flood damage.
2. Right now, these devices generally fall under two schools of design:
a. Point Sensor Activated: Sensors are placed in “high risk areas,” like around a washing machine, under a water tank, etc. Sensors then connect remotely to a valve that’s installed near the main shutoff. When the sensors detect water, they communicate with the valve and tell it to shut off.
i. Pros: Fast response time once it detects a leak, and it can talk to a large number of sensors.
ii. Cons: If there are plumbing failures where there isn’t a sensor, it won’t work.
b. Valve Body Activated: The valve has components on the inside that allow it to measure the overall health and activity of the waterpipes, which varies from valve to valve. Most of these types of valves measure the flow rate of water, which helps them determine what fixtures are being used in the house. If the valve detects an excessive flow of water, it will shut the valve off.
i. Pros: All the smarts are in the shutoff valve itself, making it easier to keep track of than the system of components for point sensor valves, the information the valve collects can help it differentiate and improve water usage in the house, meaning it’s useful even when it’s not detecting plumbing failures, and the valve is not dependent on sensors “finding” the leaks. If there’s a plumbing failure anywhere in the system, it will close the valve.
ii. Cons: There’s a slightly slower response time than point sensor valves (because it’s so smart, it needs to “think” about whether this water is being used for something else or if it’s actually a plumbing failure, and it can trigger “false alarms” if a large amount of water is being used and the valve worries that it’s a flood.
Resources:
Richard explained that most modern automatic water shutoff valves fall under two categories of design: sensor-activated and valve body activated.
The sensor-activated valves are usually more economical and have a faster response time, since their primary function is to detect leaks and other plumbing failures. The sensor-activated valve Richard demonstrated was a Floodmaster App-Based Wireless Plumbing Leak Detection & Automatic Water Shut-Off System [amzn.to/2ySW53z], which is manufactured by Reliance Detection Technologies (reliancedetection.com/). The kit comes with two sensors and additional ones can be purchased and paired.
The valve body activated valves have more features to them, including usage reports and running health tests to try and catch plumbing failures ahead of time. The all-in-one smart valve Richard demonstrated was the Phyn Plus Smart Water Assistant + Shutoff [amzn.to/2LpThh1], which is manufactured by Phyn (www.phyn.com/).
Expert assistance with this segment was provided by the Walter F. Morris Company (www.morrismerchants.com/).
About Ask This Old House TV:
Homeowners have a virtual truckload of questions for us on smaller projects, and we're ready to answer. Ask This Old House solves the steady stream of home improvement problems faced by our viewers-and we make house calls! Ask This Old House features some familiar faces from This Old House, including Kevin O'Connor, general contractor Tom Silva, plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey, and landscape contractor Jenn Nawada.
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Watch the full episode:
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Testing Smart Automatic Water Shutoff Valves | Ask This Old House
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Пікірлер: 124

@TylerRing 4 ай бұрын

I have the Flo by Moen. It's a combination of the two. Learns the habits but also has sensors you can place too. Also runs daily checks for small drips and leaks.

@Reignz 4 жыл бұрын

Amazing video, thanks TOH.

@XzTS-Roostro 4 жыл бұрын

The water main shutoff at my mom's house is located in one of the closets in one of the bedrooms. The reason why it's not located in the garage, is because we originally planned on placing the garage on the same side of the house, until we cleaned floorplans

@LanceMcGrew 2 жыл бұрын

3:05 demo of Phyn shuts off in around a minute but in my case it took 7 - 8 minutes when our irrigation system kicked in and Phyn classified as unknown. Ran 60 Gallons before shutting off. Had that been an inside pipe break we would still be mopping up. Maybe we need to activate away mode to have higher sensitivity?

@HsingSun 6 ай бұрын

Water leaking sensor has been in the market over a decade. I installed it inside/between two bathrooms walls and it worked after the test.

@anuradharanasinghe1901 4 жыл бұрын

I think a combination of that is the best

@GD15555 4 жыл бұрын

2:06 that’s how he became a plumber

@danwat1234 3 жыл бұрын

Intelligent flow sensor, may shut off water when you refill the hot tub, start watering the lawn start of the season

@jd415 4 жыл бұрын

Insurance companies should offer discounts if homeowners have these.

@davenz000 4 жыл бұрын

They should also offer discounts to people who aren't crap drivers. Ain't going to happen.

@TheCompanyMediaGroup 4 жыл бұрын

My insurance company gave us a complimentary smart home kit that came with two water sensors and gave us a discount for installing them.

@store4books 3 жыл бұрын

@@davenz000 Progressive's snap does exactly that.

@store4books 3 жыл бұрын

Some do, just ask.

@sgtpepper729 3 жыл бұрын

Not the most amazing discounts, but we can get around $20 off yearly for a passive water alarm and $40 for an automatic shutoff system.

@dougm1985 4 жыл бұрын

my hot water tank sprung a leak. my son heard the air rushing in , and woke me at 2am. lost about 20 gals on to the floor. sucked . but, could have been worse.

@ricklithgow8501 2 жыл бұрын

Why on earth would you rely on anything cloud based? Anything like this should be kept 100% local in function. Using something like a Dome unit from DOMEHA or Bulldog is what should be used. First off they're instantaneous. You don't have 30 seconds to a minute worth of water dropping on your floor. Secondly and more important if something happens, you don't have an internet failure to worry about. This includes if the company goes out of business and takes their servers with them you're out of luck. Do not rely on wifi either. Your water sensors should be connecting to the shutoff via zigbee or z-wave. You should also test once a month.

@RedRyz3n 2 жыл бұрын

Dude, both shutoffs do not need WIFI to function. They only need WiFi to send alerts. The WiFi is simply a nice feature but again isn't needed for the thing to work. Whats more important is making sure you have a backup battery for the thing in case the power goes out cause then you'll be screwed.

@shoretrade9516 Жыл бұрын

According to the demo internet is required to operate it

@RafaelPernia 4 ай бұрын

@@shoretrade9516even if wifi required, wifi is local. There's no cloud.

@ebuckholt 9 ай бұрын

What about slow drips?

@Rushmore222 4 ай бұрын

It might be useful to have a wireless valve at the main that you could just shut off with a key fob or your phone any time you leave the house or go to bed, similar to locking the front door.

@ChickenPermissionOG 8 ай бұрын

how does it know the difference between washing dishes and a water leak.

@djb6496 Жыл бұрын

"It Thtill flowin' Durr" Give it a few seconds bro, lol

@vog51 4 жыл бұрын

What if I'm filling a small pool outside? What if I want to take a bath? That seamed like such a short time to shut off after just basically a wide open faucet.

@sheldonpopesp 4 жыл бұрын

its only short because he set it to 'away' mode.

@Bocaj77 2 жыл бұрын

So what where the names of the manufacturers of the two they tested? I'm interested in the 2nd one

@orcrist484 Жыл бұрын

That second one is called the Phyn Plus - now in a second generation. It can also detect frozen pipes.

@joshuazeledon1323 4 жыл бұрын

My company offers the same type of leak detection and shuts off within seconds. Look up Kinetico Leak detector

@rodolphestpreux 4 жыл бұрын

They just showed an example where it doesn't take a "second" it takes time but auto shutoff is good nonetheless

@mrbigcat9 6 ай бұрын

What will happen if you lose AC power?

@mastershake156 4 жыл бұрын

I turn off my main when I leave the house for more than a day. Sure it's not the best but better than nothing.

@spikefivefivefive 4 жыл бұрын

I turn my main off too and relieve the pressure from the lowest point in the basement sink by opening the tap. No flow No pressure No problem

@mastershake156 4 жыл бұрын

@@spikefivefivefive leave a little pressure. It's easier to find a leak.

@andymccloskey8039 4 жыл бұрын

That's what I do. Better safe than sorry

@GD15555 4 жыл бұрын

Just get flo by Moen smart valve

@JM-yx1lm 4 жыл бұрын

This is the best option right here. You can wire this to a switch inside the house www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Solid-3-4-110V-Brass-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-AC-Normally-Closed-Air-Water/281924728613?epid=1101510301&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item41a405f725:g:wWoAAOSwqABbKgnk

@HeyAstor 3 жыл бұрын

Problem with the second one is that most leaks happens without the full pipe rupturing and instead start off low and slowly increase, sometimes never to full flow but with time (2-3 days) the water damage is just as bad

@leandrodominic5822 2 жыл бұрын

@Clay Johnathan thank you, I signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I appreciate it!!

@clayjohnathan6734 2 жыл бұрын

@Leandro Dominic glad I could help :)

@buckyswider1 2 жыл бұрын

Hi JJA, some (well, I know at least one, the Flo device, but probably more) do a daily "Health Check". This is done by closing the valve for a couple minutes and watching the water pressure on the house side of the valve. If the pressure decreases slightly, it's indicative of a small leak somewhere- and it gives you the chance to investigate and remediate. It usually does this overnight. And yes, it does sense and immediate large pressure drop during the health check- so, if during the check you turn on a faucet or flush a toilet, the health check aborts and the valve opens. And, not sure if you can do this, but if you can delete comments on your comments, delete that silly spam fake "conversation" that these two clowns are having to try to promote their streaming service.

@HeyAstor 2 жыл бұрын

@@buckyswider1 Very interesting. Thanks for the 411. I’m thinking of getting one for my vacation spot. PS. I reported the spam clown to YT because unfortunately I am unable to delete the comment. If you do too they might take care of it faster. Thank you and take care.

@cloudvlog809 2 ай бұрын

How many sensor do we need to install Because leak every where has water pipe This not make sense

@Yoursoul101 4 жыл бұрын

What if you have a lawn that needs watering while away?

@MrJramirex 4 жыл бұрын

Then you need your sprinklers be plumbed before the device.

@Elon_Trump 4 жыл бұрын

This should be code in all modern building.

@mattbartolovich8228 4 жыл бұрын

Like in a lot of older homes

@curtisbme 3 жыл бұрын

an automatic shutoff but not these, these are both terrible compared to a number of other products that use sensors and can shut off the water almost instantly.

@iamthepeterman54 3 жыл бұрын

This old house pulls through again. Water line busted on my fridge today.......

@charlesalexanderable 4 жыл бұрын

Second one sees an anomoly: you are trying to put a fire out with your garden hose. Shuts the water off?

@carloshgrant 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I don't see how it would work. I have a hose in front yard and I water my plants with it. I put my finger in the water coming out to control the spray level. This thing for sure would not know that that was and probably would shut off the water to the whole house...

@rafaelarias9759 3 жыл бұрын

Hello? Fire extinguisher...

@johndelgado4821 3 жыл бұрын

@@rafaelarias9759 fire extinguisher, really? Maybe in the early stages of a fire starting or if you have one handy in the kitchen, but if a fire gets out of control you're looking for a consistent source of water.

@ramaporiver803 4 жыл бұрын

So what if I have guests after 3 years of no guests and we take 3 showers at once.... boom nO water

@easybreath9196 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe, it’s seems probable if you have 3 bathrooms and the showers taken overlap. But if there a pause of water flow between the showers I imagine the system would not shut off the water flow

@TylerRing 4 ай бұрын

Set it to sleep mode if you know you'll have higher than normal usage

@TheJimbob1603 6 ай бұрын

My water is shut off whenever the house alarm-system is armed in 'away mode'. Works for me!

@mlevass1 5 ай бұрын

Can you enlighten me on how this works?

@edgarh.5727 4 жыл бұрын

Nice

@bbrad628 3 жыл бұрын

My biggest concern is when I go on vacation/away from home for significant time. Before I leave, I manually turn off incoming water with ball-valve. I don’t trust reliability of electronics. If wifi goes down or there’s an extended power outage, one of these devices won’t do any good.

@oldtwinsna8347 2 жыл бұрын

That works until one realizes they need water on for landscaping.

@RedRyz3n 2 жыл бұрын

You can have both. Have a manual cut off before the electronical one. They also have a battery back up in case of a power outage.

@watuzi 4 жыл бұрын

Man, they're like $700, that's freaking expensive

@dokmanian 4 жыл бұрын

they are very expensive but its a piece of mind and still less then my deductible

@VincentVazzo 4 жыл бұрын

$600 on sale right now: amzn.to/2XbL3Pa. ($550 on costco.com if you have a membership). Still much cheaper than having water damage.

@TravisNewton1 4 жыл бұрын

$700 < thousands of dollars of water damage, mold prevention, and mold cleanup. Short term loss, long term gain.

@kendog52361 4 жыл бұрын

I think a "best of both worlds" set up would be, the whole-home shut-off, obviously, but also making the individual appliance shut-off "smart" as well, and enabling tying them into the water sensors/shut-off. That is, basically in most every water appliance, you have the local shut-off, on the water line, and taking that and making it smart and able to "talk" with the home water sensor system.

@terry7893 Жыл бұрын

You sort of just described the Flow by Moen, but it shuts your water off if there's a leak anywhere in your house. No sensors needed.

@h-townfishing1382 4 жыл бұрын

could you just turn off your main water supply when leaving for a trip? would that do any harm?

@practicallandlording2787 3 жыл бұрын

If you have a boiler it MUST have a water feed. You could burn your house down and surprise no insurance check.

@oldtwinsna8347 2 жыл бұрын

Good luck doing that if you have landscaping that requires water.

@ptech88 5 ай бұрын

It will be fine. Dont listen to anyone that says the boiler needs constant pressure. That is not true.

@jacobr1912 4 жыл бұрын

Ok but what happens when you turn on your garden hose?

@plasmac9 4 жыл бұрын

You get annoyed.

@Pengy39 4 жыл бұрын

These devices can detect how fast water flow rate changes. When turning on a garden hose you generally ramp up flow vs a burst pipe that goes to max flow instantly

@jacobr1912 4 жыл бұрын

Pengy good point. I can see it working like that

@TylerRing 4 ай бұрын

@@jacobr1912 You can also put it in sleep mode if you know you're going to have abnormally high usage.

@jeffpearsall32 4 жыл бұрын

Just turn your water main, or pump off when gone...

@jeffpearsall32 4 жыл бұрын

@Semper Fi , depends how inconvenient... AT LEAST, on my washing machine, I turn off the valves when it's not being used. One lever, pulled down, turns off the water to the hot and cold valves and keeps the pressure off the hoses.

@001looker 3 жыл бұрын

That would turn off my irrigation system.

@001looker 3 жыл бұрын

Big leak=insurance claim=nice payout for remodel.

@samuelt2072 4 жыл бұрын

As a former water dept worker the cheapest insurance against a water leak is to have your water shut off at the curb... especially if you're going to be gone for any length of time. Even if it costs a hundred bucks that's considerably cheaper than any water damage.

@ryanoneglia4817 2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't work well in the cold weather if you have radiant heat that might need makeup water

@orcrist484 Жыл бұрын

A hundred bucks to turn off your water at the meter? Here where I live you just lift the lid and crank the valve. I do it all the time.

@samuelt5131 Жыл бұрын

@@orcrist484 where I live, the actual cost is twenty dollars "per turn." Or: twenty dollars off/twenty dollars on. As I said, cheap insurance (although you'd be surprised how many people, with the money, don't pay it).

@oldtwinsna8347 Жыл бұрын

Good luck with that if you have plants requiring irrigation.

@alexkaufer2113 4 жыл бұрын

What happens when the electricity or internet is out?

@Elon_Trump 4 жыл бұрын

a lot of modern houses have a solar backup and emergency generators. Yeah if you don't you are out of luck

@Watercop 3 жыл бұрын

That's a great question. A WaterCop sensor based system automatically closes the main when there is a loss of power. WaterCop automatic shut-off valves close in 2.5 seconds.

@jeesjees2 4 жыл бұрын

Wow, Uponor Phyn mentioned! Make Finland Great again and torilla tavataan! :D

@jeesjees2 4 жыл бұрын

well not mentioned, but shown anyway :D

@TheCarGuy4Life 4 жыл бұрын

Would be cool if home insurance companies would either offer these at a huge discount or give us a discount on our premiums if we buy one. It would save them a lot of money if I pipe did burst.

@DanBurgaud 4 жыл бұрын

Plot Twist: by 4:05, Richard signals the product rep to turn off the water line...

@joebagodonutssummertime8267 6 ай бұрын

Did not happen, unless it has been edited since.

@harveypost7799 4 жыл бұрын

I thought Roger retired, sum resodding . I fertilized with Scott's ( Rogaine ) and bang it's starts raining.

@JC-zc2xx 4 жыл бұрын

It’s a old duplicate show

@markhall3323 3 жыл бұрын

Tommy is hiding behind that screen turning the water supply on and off

@davidmeyer4384 2 жыл бұрын

Come on ,how cynical can one be?

@markhall3323 2 жыл бұрын

@@davidmeyer4384 i know, right

@samriddhatuladhar3913 4 жыл бұрын

SKYNET : scald them people.

@PaulHenreid Жыл бұрын

Too cool for school - artificial intelligence learns water flow - wow - it is like a robotic butler!

@Ryan-dj5ku 4 жыл бұрын

Even if you have one, you will still get minor water damage that has to be fixed. That plus the price of the valve makes it as much or more than a deductible. How do we know these will always shut off when required? Do they have some sort of coverage or warranty if they don't work as intended? Even if they say they cover damage, I'm sure the manufacturer will only cover damage if installed by a plumber and within a certain time period. Plus what is the likelihood that the manufacturer will cover the damage? Usually negligible. Until these are much, much cheaper, I doubt they will catch on. The price plus the uncertainty of them always working made me not buy one. That is unfortunate, since I was extremely interested, but for the price of my deductible I will take my chances. Remember it's not extremely likely to have this happen. Everybody knows somebody that it had happened to, but it's a fairly low percentage.

@store4books 3 жыл бұрын

It's highly likely that you'll have a leak when you're asleep or away or at work I know several people that this is happened to and they weren't on vacation. The minor damage that a couple gallons will cause is nothing compared to gallons and gallons running all over the house. Both homes I know had to completely redo other rooms because of all the water damage. The few gallons that leak out until shut off will dry and not cause any mold problems. It's a pretty simple drywall and floor repair, & may not even need it because it'll dry on its own.

@MYCHANNELWITHMYSTUFF Жыл бұрын

SOooooo, all of the reviews for these devices are horrible. Most say the device does not do what it claims and if you have an issue the customer support is as bad as it can possibly be. I just want a simple DUMB remote water main shutoff switch. I don't need fancy smart technology. If I had a simple remote shutoff switch by my back door I could just flip it off when I leave the house and flip it back on when I get home.

@TylerRing 4 ай бұрын

I've had one with no issues for 3 years

@MrWaste 4 жыл бұрын

The hacker Community doesn’t need this... This is a terrible idea.. I think these are really easy to control / hack into because it’s on your internet as well the Company that could/ track you from the sensors. It’s on your internet... Just think about that.

@MrWaste 4 жыл бұрын

Mircea Go to this site, this is in real time, and real websites and real people being hacked. It’s not a joke.. www.exploit-db.com/

@MrWaste 4 жыл бұрын

I don't aspect you to understand, it's fine. Good Day

@alanmoore2197 Ай бұрын

To me battery operated is a bit of a problem for continual monitoring... hardwired or mains powered while more difficult to install is just far more reliable. The second version here is quite worthless IMO. The only benefit is ease of installation - in terms of protection it sucks (best case) and its obvious it will be a giant PITA shutting of your water when you don't want it to. I have a predominantly hardwired WaterCop Pro system with a few mains powered RF sensors for locations impossible to wire to (e.g. sink Island). I have 18 water sensors - basically every place water is dispensed in the house & garage. It was a major investment ($$/planning/time) - but having had it for >8 years its has shut the water off quickly due to leaks about once a year - mostly these have been washer overflow, sink overflow & Fridge/RO leaks. This is a totally stand alone system (no internet, hub, cloud or WiFi dependence) but it is adapted to my alarm system for remote alerts and water on/off control. Obviously I installed this after a major and very costly leak - usually you need a major motivation to spend this much (>$1K) - but its already saved lots of money.