I think the most important thing is that it was Brian Wilson who asked Bruce to come back into the band full-time. Bruce and Brian have always seemed like each others biggest supporter within the groul. Heck, Bruce and Terry even hired and worked with Brian in the '70s during the time Bruce was out of the BB.

Bruce is the only guy I’ve ever heard talk negatively about Jack Rieley. Maybe some of the other guys were iffy about him too. But judging by the 1971-73 era, I think the guy was doing the best he could to make The Beach Boys cool and relevant again. And he wrote some good stuff with Brian and Carl.

I just find it strange the circumstances why he left--if that's even what he did. You notice when he came back, he's been back to stay. The most loyal friend Mike Love ever had!

In 2016, I asked Bruce when his book is coming out. His non-verbal answer indicated "never!," so the speculation will continue.

Bruce is great on solo and harmony vocal .he promoted the group on uk when no one else did!

Bruce Johnston, in my opinion, always seemed like the “square peg” in a band of round holes. He wasn’t a Wilson, nor a cousin or family friend, so based on that fact alone I think that his tenure in the group both past and present was purely business with a few perks. Don’t get me wrong, his contributions on the Sunflower LP and even little facets like “Nearest Far Away..” and “Bluebirds,” was incredible on many levels. I truly believe that Bruce was a great addition to the group from ‘65 to ‘72. Then I see live footage of the group that sort of throws me for a loop, perfect example being the live footage from the band’s Paris Olympia performance in ‘69. His bass playing was mediocre at best (and I’m not criticizing that in the least), organ and piano chops were great and the vocals he added were superb. What bothers me was that (especially in the footage I stated above) Bruce just seemed like a utility in the live shows. Bass to B3/C3 to hype man/tambourine and round and round. Watching that concert just made me feel like Bruce didn’t have a home base and just filled in the gaps. If that’s indeed how it was, he served his purpose in the live setting. As far as behind the scenes goes, especially after Pet Sounds but before Sunflower, the band was adrift out to sea with frustrations on many levels. Staying relevant, dealing with reclusive Brian, failing record contracts, horrific sales domestically and the basic day to day issues of relationships, personal ordeals and the time they were living in I’m sure made for a rough go. In my opinion, I think it was just a mutual exit for Bruce. I don’t think any animosity was there on his end or the boys, basically just as you said in the video, Bruce never really went away from the band. I just think frustrations from either lack of or too many different directions creatively speaking and too much of relying on a Brian that had been gone for quite some time just sparked a cordial and dignified step back. At the end of the day, Bruce was a tremendous help to the band then and now. I just think he knew where his place was in the band during his first tenure and wanted to not be trapped off or stuck during the (in my belief) “lost period” from ‘72-‘78. Too many different routes, styles and lack of any formal drive. Thank you again for posting this video and your take on Bruce’s departure.

Nice! Thanks for taking time to do this!

Totally unrelated, but have you ever done a video tour of your music room? Think that would be cool.

I consider myself one of the most loyal Beach Boys fans out there. I have been with them from the start, I have all their records and DVDs. What I do not have is the last two books you refer to. Would you please list the full titles and authors of these. Thanks, i love your enthusiasm and critiques. Good Job.

He said in an interview on UK radio that "the band was becoming clubby." With Mike and Al having TM in common, Carl and Denis having the brother thing and Ricki and Blondie forming another club and him not feeling he fitted in. Could you spill the Beans on Blondie leaving as his and Ricky's time with the band is fascinating.

It is very interesting topic. Most of writing havn't said clearly. Given Bruce's return to the band in the future, I want to believe that the members didn't want him to leave. When I listening to 'M.I.U. album', I oftern think it's kind of Bruce style soft rock. for example, 'Sweet Sunday Kind of Love', 'Matchpoint of Our Love', It seem to prepare welcoming him.

I just found this channel. Looks pretty good. I've seen them live since 1979..collected all the lps, rare singles , boots & books. Every concert I went to , I made a list of the song list and guitars used . ( I collect those too ). In a you tube video I recently seen , Bruce talks about that period , and he doesn't say anything bad about Jack R so all must be well. He didn't speak to kindly of him in the book " beach boys & the calif. Myth". I'm looking forward to watching your other videos.

Love videos like this. So interesting to do these little dicussions, through resource diving. Consider doing some of these on Carl, Brian and John Lennon/The Beatles if you could?

Bruce is a very interesting addition to The Beach Boys. His voice gels well with the rest and he's written some nice songs, but he wasn't very rock and roll. But I can't help but wish we got some more Bruce written and sung songs in the Beach Boys catalogue.

I spent a half hour w/ Bruce a few r years back. I took from it he is more interested in Brian's endeavors. And he is a big fan and employee of the group.

Hi Giggens, its a great idea talking about the BBs from books and i have always enjoyed the work of Bruce and after he quit the group i think he came to live in UK and he certainly knew a lot about it and i managed to catch a few interviews with him on Capital Radio London around the time of his remakes of Pipeline and Diedre , which were minor hits here and he would talk fondly of the group and indeed had members stay with him as his guest i understand. I know too that he was guest of Brian when in USA and he always said that although he had left, he was still to be found on most of their albums after his departure. and i know he was working with David Cassidy and Cliff Richard and Art Garfunkel , along with California Music around that time and therefore i think his departure was mutual agreement and i know Brian contacted Bruce in 1978, when the group were in crisis.

That Badman book is my bible. I just wish it did the day-by-day thing beyond 1976. I'd happily read up to now! (self-naming unintended) :-)

Brian Wilson said Bruce left after a "huge blowout" with Rieley.

Good summation, Sir. Yeah, I think Bruce was ‘gently’ let go. I’ve also got the Badman book and I used to have the Gaines book .. but that went missing in a house move about 20 years ago 👀

Heroes & Villians very gossipy I just reread it after 30 years my opinion hasn’t changed on it. The Badman book I am reading right now is excellent. Bruce very talented all around player . I got a chance to meet him about 5 years ago before a Beach Boys show at Boulders Stadium in Pomona NY. My friend was a DJ at the radio station there and got me in. Mike Love said he pointed to my 50th Anniversary shirt and said you the man! So we sit in the radio station while the band are eating in the next room. So they all depart and it’s just Bruce so and my daughter who just graduated high school walk in to say hello 👋. Bruce spoke with us for about 45 minutes!! One of my personnel highlights of all time. He was gracious and so nice and to be honest was more interested in talking with Steff about college ! Then Peter Noone walks in! He was the opening act and he sits down with Bruce both talking to Steff about college and how she should go to Vanderbilt or abroad ! I got up and walked over a got a cup of coffee 😆...they weren’t interested! I got some great photos ! Anyway a security guard comes in and Says Bruce show in 15 minutes!! So he had to leave , ( we also met David Marks who was playing on that tour he was very nice too)

Isn't it ironic Bruce the non family-friend member ended up staying with Mike in the touring group all these years later!? Perhaps if he didnt quit on his own, he would have been fired eventually. Do you believe Bruce actually played/ sang on Holland? He mentions somewhere he "snook" over to the recording sessions.

What a fascinating topic! The NME interview does seem to imply that there was discontent on both sides, Mike - "he may have taken it as a dismissal but that that is just too bad because we had our gripes about him" Overall though I think it was a lot about the old favourite of "musical differences". There is a 1970 interview in which Bruce says he would like to "get into film music", he also says that his strong ambition was to write a song like Deidre. Now, nothing against that song at all but having written Deidre and then Disney Girls I can imagine him being less than enthused with the direction of Carl and the Passions and the growing rock like set list. I always saw Bruce as more of the solo, slightly middle of the road ballad man, The direction they were pursuing in the early seventies would not have suited him I don't think. Funny, because although Dennis wrote many beautiful ballads there was certain "Dennis - ness" that gave them an edge! The Steven Gaines book I will take with pinch of salt! I have the day- by day book (I'll have start reading it soon as it looks like we in GB will enter some form of lock down soon again, But I have not seen the In Concert book before, Is it still in print? I will stop now!

Im pretty sure he just decided to leave due to the uncertain position and uncomfortable atmosphere of the band leading up to the point of his departure. I think more proof would be due to the fact he seems to hold nothing but positive feelings and no bad blood towards any of them!

I'm thankful that Bruce was canned, as (instrumentally) it contributed to The Beach Boys developing into a legitimate live act which could compete with any RnR band in the early 70's. Bruce was never a bassist, as he simply learned the bass parts in a rudimentary fashion as his primary purpose was to fill a vocal role. Like Brian, Bruce was a composer first. The addition of (primarily) Ed Carter on bass beginning in the late 60's (along with Blondie and Ricky in the early 70's) must have made Carl exceptionally happy. Heck, get those headphones on and listen to the bass on "Sloop John B," "Surfin USA" and "Fun, Fun, Fun" for example on the "In Concert" album from 1973 to get a sense of the difference with the Ed & Ricky rhythm section - the bass is played with authority and weight, and is not an afterthought It's no accident that both the bass and drums are high in the mix on that album (per a friend who played bass with the BB's in the 80's, Carl apparently loved to have the bass hit him in the ass onstage.) My hunch is Jack Rieley had a vision for the band at the time and continuing with Bruce on bass was not part of that equation. Thank you, Jack Rieley for contributing to one of the most interesting chapters in BB's history.

To add some fuel to the fire, in a now ancient ‘96 Q&A with Rieley on the Smiley Smile forums, he himself claimed that he fired Bruce for stifling creativity within the band. However, as I recall, his tone throughout was quite bitter so who knows how reliable that is.

I have to agree with you Gig. I believe that all this things have been going over several years. Maybe Bruce was not happy with the direction the band was going and Jack Riley or someone else advised him that if nothing suits you, then why don't you try to do something your own? Anyway, I love Bruce, I love his songs and I think he's very talented guy.

Bruce is on Holland, he's in the backing vocal stack on California.

From what I've read, it seems Bruce never liked Jack Rieley, or agreed with the directions Rieley was trying to take the band in. I think he quit, but once Rieley was gone as Manager (after the 1973 Holland album), I think Bruce was more willing to work with the band again, eventually rejoining them permanently in 1978. I think as a musician and singer, he's had his greatest success by being in the Beach Boys. He had some success by being in the Rip Chords, and also the studio groups the Hot Doggers and Sagittarius, plus he won a Grammy in 1975 for writing Barry Manilow's hit I Write The Songs. I've also read that Bruce "Doesn't have a Rock'N'Roll bone in his body", which I agree with. He seems to like writing schmaltzy ballads.

Thanks again Giggens. Ive been a Beach Boys fan since 1964 and I've only just discovered this site about 2/3 weeks ago and it's absolutely fantastic, all of a sudden the C19 lockdown doesn't seem to bad. You mentioned BRUCE'S comments in the NME at the time and I remembered reading that, but I'm sure that I read in another music paper ( maybe Sounds or Melody Maker) that Bruce left because Blondie and Rickie were joining the band on a higher percentage that he was. Anyway only Bruce knows the real reason. Giggens? while were on the subject of sackings?, is it possible for you to make a vidio of why All Jardine was thrown out of the band by Mike and more importantly how was he allowed to do this by Brian and Bruce.

Could you do a video covering the lineups of The Beach Boys and who played what?

According to Brian at the time (granted, not the best of sources), "all I know is that Bruce and Jack had a huge row, and Bruce left". So... go figure !

I don't think the timing is coincidental. Rieley takes over and Bruce is gone? Seems like he was pushed out. And, I don't think it worked out for the BBs. They'd shortly depart for Holland, from which Rieley never returned, and after which the guys essentially ceased being recording artists for over 3 years. Nothing may have changed, but I think I'd rather have Bruce around from '73-75 to help write/arrange/produce in the studio. Maybe they actually finish something.

How about a video overview of the Beach Boys books that you have? Which ones are the most essential?

Interesting insights! BTW, it is my birthday today :-)

Perhaps the situation was manipulated so that Bruce would want to leave. Perhaps there was no room for his songs on CATP. Perhaps Rielly could have been behind things like that.

Interesting!

I think it was probably mutual. Jack wanted to consolidate power within the group and Bruce was dissatisfied and looking for a way out. My questions are: When did Jack Riley leave his role as a manager and how does that coincide with his late 70's return to the BB? Also, if you start doing these BB lore type videos, I have a suggestion: What happened to Dennis' voice; cumulation of drugs and alcohol, smoking, throat punch, something else?

Giggens: This seems like a good place to answer something you mentioned about not all Beach Boys fans believing Bruce was a member of the group...or a full-fledged member, anyway. I KNOW he's a member, but I've struggled with accepting it. After David Marks left, the albums beginning with "Shutdown, Vol. 2" and ending with "Wild Honey", only featured Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike and Al on their album covers. The essential lineup. I realize Bruce began touring in 1965, and you can hear his voice on "California Girls", and "God Only Knows." Apparently Capital Records didn't want him in the scenes from the album "Besch Boys Party", although he can be seen playing volleyball in one of the pictures on the album. And a single picture of him sitting next to Dennis playing the piano appears on "Pet Sounds", both wearing the famous pinstripe shirts. But he never appeared on any album cover featuring the group, until the "Friends" album...and even then, the album cover was a drawing of the group that was some kind of out there psychedelic exaggeration. And the album, unfortunately, sold very poorly. Probably not a lot of people noticed the addition of Bruce at the time. And he was around and gone again, getting into the '70's. For me, I've struggled seeing him as a full-fledged member of the Beach Boys, even though I know he is. For me, the lineup of Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike and Al are the essential Beach Boys. Not meaning to seem hurtful, but Bruce always seemed like an addition. But that is not to knock his immense talent. I'd be a fool to. He's obviously extremely talented. Hope I've made sense in my explanation...

The Badman book is notorious for revealing the Social Insurance Numbers of the session musicians on the AFM documents.

i thought bruce only appeared on marcella...

You should do video about Blondie Chaplin leaving

Verdict: regardless of the real answer, some band members of nearly every Rock Band have more power than others. It's rarely a "fair deal". I do believe a 1977 Beach Boys book by John Tolbot suggests he was at least encouraged to go, either way he's not sharing equal power in decisions. Most bands are like that. Egos collide.

"Blondie was very loud" 🤣🤣🤣

"by mutual consent" - double speak by both sides for "you're fired".

Reiley did not have the credentials he boasted of. So, right off the bat, the underpinnings were based on falsehood. Today, a small amount of detective work would have uncovered this. He did push the band out into the colleges rather than the bigger venues. Bruce wrote a Grammy award song, but never actually was completely severed from the band, going into the studio to do vocals which were, and are, live pretty indispensable in terms of the BB style.

Just look at Old Whistle Stop interview....and did not like Jack Reily... no mystery

I just think during that time the band was desperately searching for artistic direction, it must have been really difficult or frustrating to try and keep everyone together on the same page. Look at the crazy energetic (and very hip) live shows with Blondie and Dennis Dragon? on percussion....as integral as Bruce was to the band previously, this livelier kind sound was not Bruce's thing. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m7iSdbOZ1MqqZIU.html

I have to say, looking at this, Johnston by this point really didn't fit in. Jack Reilly was trying to make them relevant again, as they were totally viewed as "your father's band" or "total squares" by the rapidly changing rock scene by '68. They even still wore uniforms on stage until '69. Their career was hemorrhaging by 1970. Brian was telling everyone in a press conference that Breakaway had to be a hit or they're going broke! Fred Vail was having doors slammed in his face. No one wanted to play their records and their record contract with Capitol ended with 20/20. They were getting no traction on a new record deal, and it was only because of Van Dyke Parks begging Mo Ostin that they finally did. Reilly changed all of that. Next thing you know they are playing Big Sur and playing with the Grateful Dead instead of another small auditorium or county fair. They are arranging a major event at Carnegie Hall. The banal lyrics they'd get slammed for by the hip crowd now had relevance to issues about the environment, the war, civil unrest, and searching within for inner peace - not another teenage fad, or another losing the girl song. If you look at this period, Johnston's songs were SQUARE - The Nearest Faraway Place, Disney Girls - one level below the "put a bullet in my head now and end my misery" of Muzak*! I like those songs, but in the context of the period, no! They don't work. It's stuff for the elevator and you aren't going to win the new fans you need to survive in the moment of the music scene of the day. Bruce did have a career before joining the Beach Boys, most notably with Jan Berry and Terry Melcher. One thing that blew me away in a negative way during that gap, '72 to '79, was when I first heard "Going Public", his solo album from '77. I was expecting finely produced songs like Disney Girls or The Nearest Faraway Place. What a letdown! It sounds like something the off the shelf house producer kicks out because the band paid their money for the studio and somebody has to do the production. He even used a picture for the album art straight out of the 1970 Sunflower photo sessions. I'm happy he struck it big with Barry Manilow's rendition of his I Write the Songs (and won a Grammy), and I'm sure other royalties from other artists covering it, plus Disney Girls (notably Art Garfunkel), but I cringed when I heard he was coming back to produce the LA (Light Album in '79). Supposedly Brian suggested him to produce because Brian said he wasn't up to the task. And then we got the cringe worthy Here Comes the Night disco versions, followed by Keeping the Summer Alive and Beach Boys Medley the following two years...and he's never left. Go search out the "Beach Boys" NASCAR album ('98) sold (then) only at 76 gas stations if you really want to cringe! Talk about crashing and burning a legacy! (Yes, today you can find it on KZfaq, even buy it on Amazon). And the Beach Boys were always known to have a good amount of songs "in the can". I'd imagine 99.9% of anything you see liner notes-wise during the period form Carl and the Passions on through MIU was something resurrected and used with Johnston's vocals still in the mix. Susie Cincinnati comes to mind, originally recorded in 1970 and released as the B side to Child of Winter ('74), then slightly re-mixed and added to the 15 Big Ones album, followed by being released as a single following Rock and Roll Music and It's OK singles. * =Elevator music (also known as Muzak, piped music, or lift music) is a type of background music played in elevators, in rooms (like doctors' offices) where many people come together for reasons other than listening to music, and during telephone calls when placed on hold.

I can’t say Bruce was anything but a vocal replacement for some of Brian’s parts. He really added nothing and unfortunately he came back to produce some of the embarrassing disco songs on the LA light album.

Sounds like a mutual thing. Kinda like that girlfriend you love but just can't quite get along with. But then you keep talking to her. And then you meet up for lunch some years and Oops, there you are again. And its great for a while, but you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. Eventually it does. You still love her but you can't stay with her, so you leave...but you keep talking. Hey, this kinda stuff happens.

He wasn’t a “big deal” before The Beach Boys. Let’s be real.

Sir ! The Gaines book WAS over-stated, over dramatic, & full of exaggerations. ----MJL, 75 y/o

SIR--------1ST, BRUCE WAS NEVER " FIRED " ; MIKE WOULD NEVER HAVE ALLOWED THAT. ----------BY '72, THERE WAS A LOT OF DIVISION ---------CARL & DENNIS WERE ROCKERS ----------AL , WHO WAS BADLY NEEDED FOR HIS VOICE, IS /WAS, A FOLK SINGER AT HEART-------AND MIKE WAS CONTENT TO SING " LITTLE DEUCE COUPE & 409 " FOR THE REST OF HIS DAYS. BW WAS IN BAD, CHECKED OUT, HIGH ON ANYTHING HE COULD GET, SO HE WAS NOWHERE. BRUCE IS NOT A ROCKER. HE'S A CLASSICALLY TRAINED PIANIST WHO WANTED TO WRITE B'WAY MUSICALS. SO------WITH ALL THIS DIVERGENCE -------MIKE, REMEMBER WAS TOTALLY INTO TM ---------AS WAS AL---------WITH ALL OF THIS, BRUCE FELT THAT MUSICALLY, THERE WAS JUST NOT MUCH OF A PLACE FOR HIM. AT LEAST, NOT UNTIL, IN DESPERATION, MIKE CALLED HIM TO HELP OUT WITH THE NEW ALBUM FOR CBS, IN '78. HE RETURNED, CONTRIBUTED THAT FANTASTIC DISCO VERSION OF " HERE COMES THE NIGHT " , & WAS BACK, FOR GOOD. HE LEARNED THAT BEING OUT ON HIS OWN, WASN'T SO EASY -----------HIS SOLO ALBUM WHICH i HAVE, WENT NOWHERE. NO ONE WAS BEATING DOWN THE DOOR TO GET HIM, SO WHEN MIKE CALLED YELLING " HELP !! " , BRUCE RETIURNED, FOR GOOD. ----------AND, THAT'S THE TRUTH. -------------------MJL, 75 Y/O

I cant forgive bruce for "she believes in love again". Awful. What do vou think about that song Giggens? Could you please show us the covers of 20/20 original album? Never saw it. Thanks a lot.

Learn to read, dude.

Bruce is a square guy, he never should've been a Beach Boy period. He didn't fit in and still doesn't.

Who cares?