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Got a little advice for ya....you don’t need bad ass heads with that little cam your running! The only way you feel any extra is due to a small amount of extra cylinder filling due to increased low lift flow from a great valve job! That 222 is a great low rpm torque cam, ported heads don’t even begin to work until you head into the upper rpm range, where your cam doesn’t work! A 777 would be a minimum and Vance should have recommended a different cam that would bring out the “potential” of his proprietary heads. A bump in compression and proper squish distance and you would be way more impressed. Not knocking your setup, but with a little more work it would pay huge dividends!!!

@@trailerparkcryptoking5213 Sorry, wrong on every point. As Dan Vance said, you don’t ride on dyno sheet. It does not tell he whole story. What he did with his head work made the bike quicker and fast than a built 110. True, the 222 is a great low end torque cam, but the head work made the whole rpm range including the top end rip. I did up the compression some. If you reread what i wrote, the guy is arguably one of the best head guy out there. I’m supper happy with the set up. I look at the numbers on all the stock new bikes, it takes a 117 to beat them. But like I said, numbers do not tell the story. How it runs does. Thanks for responding.

@@Mark-mm1ke Let me add an important detail in which I could have made a wrong assumption.....if Dan Vance welds up his intake ports to make them smaller thus increasing port velocity then his ports will increase low end and midrange torque, otherwise I stand by my statement. Have you had an engineering level fluid dynamics class? That 222 cam closes the intake valve early which gives great low end torque....if his headwork increased low end torque it is due to increased low lift flow from a really good valve job, not from port velocity, unless he welded the ports and made them smaller! Another fact, it doesn’t matter how good the head flows, you are slamming the intake valve shut very early and wasting the potential power the head flow could generate. It may satisfy your needs, but a great flowing head will make more power holding the intake valve open longer so it fills the cylinder more....thus the reason I mentioned the 777 cam because that’s exactly what it does. Ask Bob Woods if his 222 cam requires head work, he will tell you his 777 cam doesn’t require head work and it’s way more aggressive than the 222. I do agree 100% about peak dyno numbers don’t mean shit, but the area under that torque curve means everything! Have you had college level differential calculus and have a grasp on this concept? I’m sure your bike is a torque monster, my point was simply stating that with a great flowing head a bigger cam would make more power. Look at Fuel Moto’s website at their dyno curves and the 777 cam carries the torque curve out further in the rpm range, but still has equivalent low end torque as the 222, just needs a little extra compression. Dan Vance probably does great headwork, but keep in mind he feeds his family selling that work.... if you told him you were running 222’s he should have sold you a valve job unless you wanted more for a cam upgrade down the road....

@@trailerparkcryptoking5213 That cam is not as good as the 222. Specs prove it. Power comes on late and hp is down along with torque. You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. Reread carefully. You're whole premise is off, and your assumption of what was done to my heads it way off. And your bs about college is flat. Just let it go now. I talked to two of the best in Dan Vance and Woods personally. The set up is not what you think or descibing. I'll leave you with this last comment. Every guy I let ride my bike came back and said it was the best running bike they ever rode. Because it is. You know not of what you speak. Don't bother replying, I'm done with you. You got some sort of issues I'm not interested in dealing with. Have a nice life.

Would you do it again or go 110?

Sorry for delayed response been covered up trying to get the next vid done. On the twincam b the mount for the oil filter is cast onto the cases so they machined the oil flow passeges from the outside. So yes you could get some fittings and hook up a oil cooler. Thanks for the complement

100% you want to throw away a good chunk of torque on a street bike that your not after a top speed bike is to port the heads

​@@john0270so .... don't port my heads ?

Sorry for delayed response been covered up trying to get the next vid done. Very cool getting 2 fxr' s what years are they. My first big twin I built was a 76 superglide basket case back in 96, Been a fan of fx models since then.

There have been a few people in the comments that have disagreed with me. I'm pretty sure they were wearing diapers when I was working for the dealership when the twincam came out. They don't realize as soon as it was released the screaming eagle catalogue was sent to us. With all the parts that were proven to increase performance, heads were one of those parts. There plan was to slowly upgrade the engine with some of these parts to sell new bikes. Like the 96 c.i. It was just stroker flywheel's stuffed in a 88 c.i., we were putting stroker flywheel's from the catoluge in 88's back 2001. When the 103 debuted it was just 1550 top end slapped on top of a 96. We were turning 88's into 95 back in 1999 and so on. It was smart release a little more powerful bike than the evo, sell new bikes than wait a few years add some parts they already had so people are always trading in. Hell they even had a screaming eagle 6 speed transmission way before it became stock on bike's. That's how I know heads are the best twincam upgrade, because I was in the trenches back in the day. Glad your build went well and enjoying the new performance. Keep the rubber side down and if I meet you out on the road I'll buy you a beer.

Very true.

I had to do the same thing with the dyna to get the house finished in 2007. Bought it brand new on Sep 15 1998 one of the first 100 twin cams off the line. Put 90000 miles on it in 4 years than tore it down to the frame and built a white knuckled chariot of doom. Got lucky and was able to get it back in 2016. So I know how you feel.

@@DeathProofProductions thanks for getting me back. I like that sayin..." white knuckled chariot of doom!!!"

It happens. I see people dump a lot of money into a bike and not using disposable income doing it. Finance a bike and do a build before receiving the title is a bad idea. Not direct at you, just anyone reading this. Set a goal to get another one, but make it an M8 this time. No head issues over on the dark side.

it depends on the shop you use labor rate, the cams are roughly 300 and its normally about a 4 hour job.

I agree all of my twincams are big bore short stroke.

Improved heads allow you to get the most out of your other upgrades. If you were to install a $300 cam you only would be using around 2/3rds of what you paid for instead of its full potential. So if your planning on doing engine upgrades and it's in the budget I recommend getting them done. You will need to discuss what your looking for to whoever you hire to do it. The guy I use knows I live in the mountains and knows I travel out west alot so he does the job to suit my needs.

Sorry for delay.I was scheduled for surgery early this morning to repair my shoulder and bicep tendon that was torn when i was hit buy the motorhome a few months ago, so i went to bed early but ice came in so they rescheduled. Your stock heads with the bigger valve and port and polish with the heads decked .060 will do alot. Watch my video on cam swap 07-17 It shows the work that the guy all us racers in these parts use it has his pricing and contact info aswell. The 96 has the same bore as the 88 it just has the longer stroke so with 95 cubic inch cylinders you make a 113. You can just have yours bored out if it's cheaper than buying some. If you decked the heads make sure you check valve to piston clearance might end up having to remove a little metal from valve reliefs. As far as cams for what your talking about I think you would be happy with the s.s. 583 grind for its badass tourque coming on strong so early. This is considerably cheaper than a new engine, will perform quite well and still be drivable for long rides. Two into one exhaust helps alot to .

Yeah works the same as the venture in a carburetor. The reason I say the twin cam benefits from head work is because I was working for Bumpus Harley Davidson in Memphis as a factory certified tech when the engine was first introduced. They under engineered the engine to be able to benefit from every screaming eagle part in the catalog to be able to compete with aftermarket companies. For instance the 96 c.i. They introduced in 07 was just a 88 with stroker flywheel's the 103 is the 96 with the 95 cylinder's. These parts were available in the screaming eagle catalogue since the beginning. They knew to start out with an engine that's a little bit more powerful than the last. And then profit off upgrades. I should have said this in the video but I'm learning.

It depends on what your looking for, what style of riding you usually do and what kind of roads.

I believe that you won't have a problem but I would call s&s to make sure.

Yep

Sorry for delayed response been covered up trying to get done with a vid. When I worked for Bumpus Harley Davidson as a mechanic when the twincam came out, I talked to the guys at powertrain devision alot about the engine. One of the things they told me was the engine was designed restricted some so that it would benefit from every screaming eagle part. Heads is one of those parts. You will want to go to the bigger intake valve and deck them for more compression to get the most out of. Plus it allows you to get the most out of anything else you do in the future.

@@DeathProofProductions. When installing a bigger intake valve I assume the throats need sized up? Do the valve seats respond well to a 5 angle valve job? Great video!

The intake didn't have a little fitting on the to right hand side of the upper bolt for the carb.

Sure did! On the S&S manual had a sentence that I oversaw. But thank you for your reply !

Install a Pingel peacock without the vacuum diaphragm, and cap off the vacuum port.

You should try it first. On all my hotrods I run a stock clutch, if it does slip swap to a screaming eagle clutch diaphragm

@@DeathProofProductions Sounds good, thanks for your quick response! Is that the round metal spring? Also Fuel Moto recommends non-synthetic primary lube if you use their Variable Pressure Clutch. Why would they recommend non-synthetic lube in the primary?

Yes it's the round metal spring. That's strange that they would recommend that. Probably just a marketing strategy.

@@robbaar7035 Sir, the non-synthetic primary fluid has nothing to do with the type of pressure plate or clutch lock up, it's SOLELY based on the friction material not being capatable with the synthetic fluid, it will slip like crazy. The guys at Fuel Moto are correct, and in fact, most aftermarket clutch disc material isn't capatable with synthetic fluid. Be sure to verify before adding fluid. My dyno mule as well as 1 of my drag Dyna's have both been converted to B.D.L. belt primary and their lock up pressure plate. No more fluid, and no more chain maintenance. Best of all of course is no clutch slippage, even with a hefty shot of Nitrous. Good luck Sir. T.S. RACING 🏁

Most factory heads can benefit from it, but Harley wouldn't sell performance heads if they had gotten everything they could out of the stock one's. I hate ur 14 got totaled, were you on it.

Turbo's are cool.

I enjoy your channel keep up the great work

The regular are fine but I suggest getting adjustable push rod tubes to make it easier you don't have to put it is easier.

​@DeathProofProductions awesome thanks, always appreciate the advice ... to confirm I just have to remove the tappet blocks?.. thanks!

You shouldn't have to but some time's it a necessity.

never tried it but i know that the gasket are the same. your gonna have to pull the head off any way, so l would pull it and check it, there is a good chance it will work. if not take your old one to a machine shop they should be able to get the studs out.

What cam are you running.

@@DeathProofProductions ummm assuming stock 103ci twin cam motor only thing done is stage 1

Sorry for delay just got done driving back from Florida. I'm sure you know the old saying there is no replacement for displacement and that is true to a extent but there are variables that come into play. First you have to figure the cost of the new jugs and cylinders then the cost of labor to do the work if your not doing it yourself. Now your gonna have to take the heads off to change cylinders, to take advantage of the work you just had done. your gonna have to choose a cam to suit your riding style. That being said I myself would rather have my heads ported, polished, decked and the bigger valve installed slap in the cam of my choice and all probably for less money. The guy I have do all my head work charges me about 500.00, then you got the cost of the cam. So ultamitly it's figuring the cost to gain ratio. But if I chose to go with displacement I would go with 113 might as well if same labor.

Yes, did you see his number on the video if not I can give it to you.

Joseph Roy, I also have an 04' Fatboy with the 05' CVO Fatboy SE103 installed, Baker DD6 gear set and wanted to find an awesome cam for low-mid range torgue. Any suggestions brother? My motor is stock with CV51mm SE card, SE Elite Breather Intake. Thank you!

How do you know 🤔 😳 😏 😎 SPORTSTER4LIFE

Wait til your an old man, your bladder will flow for you.

If it's a 2000 you need to check and see if the drive cam has the roller bearing instead of the ball bearing. They changed them in the early 2000s do to bearing failure. It was a warranty issue so most got them changed.

How do I go about checking that as this is the third owner bike he said the cam chain tensioner was replaced before he had purchased it

Ok sorry to do this but it ended up being a 2004. Is rhere anything on those bikes that's different? Read the cam tensioner was important to change out but other than that I know jack being this is the first Harley have owned so far. Thanks again for the response 💪

2004 your good just keep a check on the tensioner's.

Reading the info on your bike I would say your right on the edge of benefiting from it. Your very much set up like I did my heritage softail. I did the math and saw that I'm in the same boat as you. Look on line for a engine intake diameter calculator. Once you enter your specs it will tell you what size is best. Hate to see you spend 500 bucks for one horsepower when you can spend it on riding.

Really appreciate you getting back to me and value your opinion. Putting all this money into the heads I think I might want to put them around my neck. They’re pretty. I think I’m gonna have to go with. Throttle body I don’t know what the gaining torque will be. I’m worried about horsepower but those cams I’m using put out a lot of torque to do my research learn from guys like you and I really appreciate you getting back to me. Not a lot of information so I guess it’s the 58 mm. There is one on eBay 200 bucks since he never used it. Ha ha ha lol thanks brother appreciate it man, hope you have a great year respect

Thanks

Thanks

I agree shiny is not the cats ass. By laminar I mean not restricted. I might not be using all my words right. I know what is most important is the most atomaztion of the fuel to enhance speed of combustion. But also to not be restricted so much that it slows combustion chamber fill.

@@DeathProofProductions right you are. Laminar flow stalls the air. A rougher surface (not big honking casting chunks) allows for the air to mix with the fuel easier amd make the "turn" into the cylinder. Laminar flow hugs the floor of the intake track and resists fuel mixing. But again, you're 100% correct in everything else you pointed out. A good head porter is worth whatever they want to charge because they'll get you more horsepower than a set of cams. Like knowledge, the POWER is in your head!

Jim Harvey....who you think you are Keenan Tatro?

You want laminar flow everywhere in the intake port except where air/fuel contacts the port surface. Only at surface contact do you want slight turbulent flow to keep fuel suspended. In general turbulent flow is chaotic and slows down fluid flow, in this case air/fuel. You don’t want to slow down air/fuel flow in the entire port, unless you want less power. At least that’s how fluid dynamics works on planet earth....🎯💯

What style of riding do you usually do.

@@DeathProofProductions usually balls to the wall😂

Was thinking of different cams until I saw this video, wasn’t sure if my heads were able to pair with different cams or if I should have those done as well. I have a V&H pro pipe, SE air cleaner, SE tuner and it has 45k miles

If it's in the budget I would definitely do heads and put in a cam that wakes up at your favorite riding style. Folks don't realize the factory holds back what the engine really can do so they can sell screaming eagle parts. I learned this when I worked for the dealership in the 2000's.

what cams did he put in.

Bonneville's are great bikes. I've had mine since 2016 and really like it ,I think you'll be pleased.

I'm doing away with mine.

Went with Darkhorse ManOWar. Easy install. Take all the HP most bikers have. No strain on the drivetrain down the line.

The compensator sprocket thats junk is on the 07 96" twi cams. If you have one of those , then swap it out with a straight sprocket called a compensator eliminator. It's several ounces of reduced weight, which means the engine can turn it with less work, and this allows you to add a tooth which changes your gearing lowering your rpms.

yep

if you want to put a 103 on a fatboy, 1 - make sure you get the correct motor, 2 - there is a mounting piece you have to get for it that mounts to front of the engine to the frame for it to fit correctly (i think there's another one also that connects to either the back of the engine or it mounts to trans), 3 - keep it carb'd, dont have to worry about all those pesky electronics and extra wires.

late model Harley engines, are aluminum so cylinder growth at full op temp is roughly .060 of a inch. this is why the full plunger travel on the tappet is 0.200 . the main goal is to set them in the middle of travel . as far as loosening at r.p.m. they almost always don't but that being said, only one in 26 years have I had to be blue loctite to keep it from loosening. this is what the factory taught me when I was being taught how to build there motorcycles. going with solids is just as good as adjustable, it's just slower to go into the cam chest.

I'm not sure but I can give you his number.

No doubt

evos, sportys, pans, shovels, or lawnmowers they all benifit from flowed heads. I started out on a 98 hugger and loved it still got my 69 xlch. my son wouldn't edit the bell thing out he thought it was funny he knows that I don't now nothing about youtube.

@@DeathProofProductions I thought it was funny too mate 🤣 😂 I got nothing but Irish sarcasm sometimes. I'm a fairly new harley owner, I bought a new one 4 years ago, put an FP3 on it, with some nicer bars, nothing crazy, but I'm intrigued to know more about some of the hidden gems i can do to my 19' sporty iron. It's a sweet bike, technically My second sportster,but I've fallen in love with it, my father dropped a 2x4 on the tank(1.9 gl🤷‍♂️) got a nice 2 inch divot, so I'm on the hunt for a bigger sporty tank and I'm gonna Try get one pre painted too, mine has the 76' AMF paintjob (red white and blue) WHICH I LOVE and it turns alot of heads, my bike is all balck, excluding the push rods snr the front forks, I haven't figured a way of wrapping them or making them matte black yet. I know I'm writing you a novel here, but I love talking shop about bikes. I'm also going to put some short shots on it, just like all the other sportys lol, but I found your channel just the other day and I finally commented today, appreciate you replying. I have a small channel, my sporty is on there but it's a recovery/faith channel, I get the struggle to find time to reply to all the comments, it's hard sometimes when you got hundreds. God bless you and your journeys on the scooters 👊🤝

As a professional at a dealership I never had a customer that ordered a big bore kit have it come with head's unless they bought the heads with it.

@@DeathProofProductions they must've gone a cheap route then.

True but only because the heads add another 1400 dollars to the bill and they hope the larger displacement will satisfy their needs.

You know jack 💩 about air flow or power production and your ProStock buddy thinks you’re so dumb that he doesn’t want to waste his precious time educating you! “Heads don’t matter...blah, blah, blah...”!

What do you mean.

This is very true on most engines but the Harley twin cam was designed with a few shortcomings on purpose to sell screaming eagle parts. when the engine first came out I was working for the dealership as a mechanic and I spoke with power train division alot to learn about the new engine. they told me that aftermarket companies were making a killing and the best way to compete was to make the new engine perform better with every screaming eagle part they sold. it was not uncommon to see good bottom end torque gains on our dyno with S.E. performance heads and the right cam.

@@DeathProofProductions OK, as far as I remember form that time, the Twin Cam was the first harley engine that was introduced together with factory upgrade parts ready, to be ahead of the after market competition ? Any harley engine was designed for moderate power / "shortcomings" , just to be on the safer side for longevity, I suppose.

no we just did it for the vid.

Most of us just do it for fun, especially mechanics like me that love working on bike's, it gives us a reason to tear into them. I've had buddy's joke about me needing to put a zipper on my cam chest cover just to make it faster to change cams. I tell them, well I wanna try this one just to see what it feels like. I think it's the same as the guys who modify there old hotrod firebird's and such.

I get what your saying but it's the hot rodder mentality, taking something that you like the style of and modifying it to suit your needs. Wether your the gearhead doing the wrenching on there own bike, or a owner having someone else create what there vision is. It's a way to bond with that machine in a way that you can't if you go buy a factory race bike. Why did I put a supercharger on my ford f-150 instead of buying a corvette, it's because I didn't want a corvette I wanted a super fast truck. I personally wouldn't trade my hotrod dyna for 10 Hayabusa's because I biult it from the frame up and that makes it special to me.

@DeathProofProductions so im old and back in the day if i wanted a bike I'd have to go to swap meets buy a frame, engine, trans in a box, fab a lot of parts ect.... I agree thats how you form an attachment to your bike. Nowadays people buy 50k bikes, put another 15- 20k into " upgrades" before ever even riding the bike in its stock form. then these same people put 2k miles a year on their bikes, of course after getting them off the trailer at Sturgis. just for bragging rights. Todays harley are junky enough that by the time you do all the things you need to make them a reliable mechine your already in 5-6k more if you do the work yourself. now back in the day as you were buolding the bikes you just did all the upgrades and i could do stuff with a shovel that would make it beat anything the Japanese could put out. Harley stayed with its antiqued push rod, air cooled design and went by the way side when it comes to speed or handling. I have a roadking ,its ok I use it to see the America's. and it does a great job at that. however if I'm getting in a race i want to win and unlike you id rather do it at 200 mph than at 125mph . As long as we are speaking of mph lets talk harley history. in the 30s you could buy a stock harley and it was 18 horse with a top speed of 100mph. in the 70s you could buy a new bike with 60 hp and its top speed was 100mph. in 2024 you can buy a new bike with 80 hp and its top speed might be 110mph. now lets do that with sny modern engine design. if i was you and liked my truck id just put an l 7 in it and.....

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Harley snob I like lots of different bike's I enjoy riding my triumph, Norton's and I really enjoy my 2019 royal Enfield continental G.T. . When I rode across Alaska I chose a b.m.w r1200. my wife even asked me why I didn't rent a Harley and I told her I got Harleys might as well try something different. My first bike was a katana and I used to own a GSXR 750. As far as the guys spending big money on there brand new bike , I figure it's there money if they got it let them spend it on what they want. As a young Harley tech in the early 2000's those same guys helped me to be able to buy diapers and put food on the table for my kids. I personnaly ride my bike up there but The friends I have in the black hills tell me they make the bulk of there yearly income from those same guys. To me alot of people benefit when people who have alot of money spend some of it no matter what it is they spend it on. I'm not sure what engine your referring to for my truck but I chose the supercharger because I wanted one ever since i was a kid and mad max came out. As far as doing 200 on the street hear in Arkansas that's a class b misdemeanor and 90 days in jail. The days of road racing are over for me since troopers got to much tech now days.

@@DeathProofProductions good story and agree.

Why are you even watching this video if you’re against building a Harley? Wtf 🤣

I think it varies from person to person the reason why but it still comes down to enjoyment for people. People like me that are gear head's and love wrenching on bike's are gonna modify whatever brand they got just for the enjoyment of the work. I've done it on plenty of different makes and model's through the years. My 99 dyna is a great example I didn't need to make it a white knuckled chariot of doom but I did just for the fun of doing it.

I should have titled it the second best upgrade.

Sorry dude don't like funny sounding motors , don't even like V-rods or streets or the new sportsters they all sound funny

Which one is that?

One that has funny sounding motors , wouldn't it be cool if someone built an American 45 dergree big twin that was big bore to start and the stock cylinders could be bored out another half inch and there was already clearance for larger cams in the cam chest and it had four valve heads with a large throttle body that could be bored out or is sleeved to reduce size to stock and clearance for larger valves and in the pistons and the valves already setup for big lift cams and it would need better mechanical access so you wouldn't have to wrech for hours to change one think and it would need low engine oil temps thru great fin design , you know offset rods and a hex crankshaft shoulders with a light press fit and pinion shaft design to just tourque the crankshat nuts down to 250 lbs. and volia it's trued , maybe with four cam design and removable lifter blocks

Let me continue , it would be totally removable and rebuildable in say two days