no need for "advanced" technology when all you need is "believe".

Orks grow and become more advanced as they fight so the wars of 'modern' 40K may just not be as substantial as the war in heaven. I like this idea because it helps drive home just how crazy the war in heaven was.

For Orks, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude. -Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher

Based off of what you said in this video... I have a theory as well. It seems as though the Orks mimic what the current need for them to survive is. During the war in heaven they probably needed to be as tall, intelligent, and technologically advanced enough to survive the current state of being they environment called for. Along with probably picking up on certain psychic wave lengths on how to do somethings instinctively and without training. This makes and made them very adaptive. Fast forward to the 41st and 42nd millennium and Orks are slightly below being on par with the imperium... Depending on what imperium world's we talk about. But the Orks seem to be in this sweet spot to not take over the Galaxy but not be wiped out either, which may have been what the old ones meant for their genetic design. Had they stayed in their pre-ork form they may have wiped out all other species in the Galaxy and thus not be able to fulfill their original war like religion or presently be able to find a good fight. The Orks may actually be the perfect species... Maybe even more so than the Tyranids. The Orks psychic ability even allows them to defy basic physics in every day rudimentary and mundane fashion. Like getting a scorcha or dakka gun to work, when by all reason it shouldn't. Other than the fact that in this moment in time in the very time and Ork needs the gun to work or the trukk to run, it actually runs. The perfect sweet spot of necessity being the mother of invention. The physiology and intelligence even seems to adapt to their environmental needs.

Orks grow according to how much fighting they are getting into, and how good the fighting is. Some eldar mentioned how the Beast's invasion was nothing compared to the Krork's attack after the War in Heaven. The Imperium simply isn't putting up a good enough of a fight to really get the Orks going full Krork. I figure if the 'Nid hive fleets started to threaten the galaxy as a whole, the WAAAAAGH would register it as a PROPA FIGHT and get the Orks going full Krork to prepare for the fight.

Favorite quote for Ork survival " Be cautious.. (Alien technology)... Is incompatible with the psychicly motivated entheric generators of the Krork'... Thank you Talker...

There is an inherent flaw in this logic Philosoraptor, though your ideas are quite good. You have to consider the Krorks as a half finished project, the Old Ones were desperate to create something which could stand up to the Necrontyr, thus they engineered a self-perpetuating horde specifically designed for combat. Since each of the Greenskins is effectively an ecosystem they would have an army that could have theoretically held the line against any force. The problem arises when you start to realize that the project spun out of control when the Old Ones went extinct...at least it partially did. I view each Waaagh as something quite different, we saw in the war of the beast technology and bio-types that were far beyond what we have previously seen. I believe that each time we have a WAAAGH the genetic programming of the original Kroks rises to the surface, as they were meant to fight in the trillions

That rock/metal sounding background music and listening to the bit about the Krorks in the first half made me think. Imagine how apocolyptic the battles between Krorks and Necrons must have been. Robots with rifles that can gut tanks being rushed by a tsunami of hulking monsters the size of an African Elephant...

I still love when you keep the elegant tone when talking about "Oddboyz, Sumboyz, Brewboyz"

Well, I am now terrified of Talker.

The Kork were defeated by the Eldar. It is likely that they "neutered" them. Orks are actually a singular gigantic psychic machine. As we can see the machine isn't working quite right. Ork society grows only as big as the psychic field of order created by its "boss" or bosses. Orks go Waaagh before their society reaches it's peak thus ensuring that they never reach peak because they go off to war before it happens. Then you have the Beast, a warboss large enough that his psychic calming effect brings ork society on par with Imperial Society and then beyond it. The natural Ork internal conflict was wholly suppressed. They built factories, farm worlds, and created a singular multi-world, multi-system ork society that ensured proper supply. On top of that new casts of orks emerged that can only emerge when ork society reaches that point but as we know they Waaagh before they reach that level. So we can only assume that the machine has been modified to "go off early" to prevent ork society from growing to that scale. After all, as with the Beast, we see them capable of feats of technology greater than the Eldar. So the key to Ork social development is the Warboss and his "size". The smaller orks of today were likely made that way to prevent the Ork society from growing, stabilizing and conquering the galaxy. It's also why the imperium learned early on that to end a Waaagh (some waaghs draw orks from all over to join them as long as the warboss is alive) to simply kill the warboss and the Waagh will disintigrate. Thus the linchpin of Ork society, tech, scale, and stability is the Largest of the Ork breed, the Boss. All of which, Beast excepting, are quite small and can barely suppress the wild instincts of the orks under them. Orks remain the ultimate species of the Galaxy, even neutered by the Eldar, they still can return to some version of their old form given the right genetic luck (a giant warboss appears). Add that to their natural transforming ability, they can take an airless world and over time it will develop an atmosphere, specific fungal forms will grow and start to produce it. IMO the Kork were the apex of the Old One's creations.

Prime-Ork Primarch Prime-Orks probably disappeared when there wasn't any fun to be had in mocking the Primarchs.

Da Boyz dont need no komplex tinkin, lif is simple shoot da enemies till day dead den find more enemies. Lif is good for da Ork boy

I'm in love with idea of a group of orks in fancy dress talking away when one of them suggests that all this silly pretense is ridiculous followed by them immediately ripping their shirts and top hats off and beating each other senseless with the chairs they were previously sitting on.

I think the Orks take by design a form that best allows them to be successful in their environment. In the modern day galaxy, the Orks are arguably the most successful species of all, populating the entire galaxy and easily withstanding all the threads out there. There's simply no reason for them to be any more advanced - so they aren't. Going by that logic - given the current turmoil in the galaxy, we might very well see them ascend to more intelligent and dangerous forms once again, as they are presented with more formidable foes.

If Orks can continue to fight and grow more powerful, then is it possible for Weirdboy to keep getting more and more Pysker powers until he literally transcends his body and becomes the first Ork Daemon Boy?

What if the Orks are functioning exactly as intended ? When faced with overwhelming odds, they rise to the occasion, their technology and their warriors getting stronger as the struggle mounts yet as they face fewer and fewer threats, they themselves become less threatening allowing their creators to move back into the space they cleared.

12m tall krorks in armor surpassing a space marines in both technology and thickness? It’s a wonder the old ones lost...

Talker has another interaction with Snikgob in the Waaagh! Faker, saying of the device; "concentra'ed Psychical excitation point emana'ing me'aphysical influences designed to affect all those of Krork derivation... 'Tis no Waaagh! You shall find it all a sham my good Ork." The Prophets of Waaagh! Is possibly my favourite audio drama and I wasn't into Orks before it. Hearing true Ork language translated into Ork English in the posh tones of Jonathan Keeble is worth the price alone

It's possible that a 'krork' is merely an Ork that has achieved a certain level of development that has simply not been matched since the time of the Old Ones. The War In Heaven lasted for millennia. If an ork survived that long and had a sufficient number of followers, they might naturally develop into Krorks.

Imagine a job where everyone else you work with has a passion for, and deep understanding of, the subject, you can all communicate ideas almost nonverbally because you are all working to the same goals, you all work just for the advancement of the project and the love of your jobs. THAT is Ork kulture. Everyone working. Everyone happy-ish. Good stuff.

I'm sure that Krork Specimen in the 'Clone Lord' book, was a high level Krok warlord and foe of the Nercrons and Ctan...he was probably more the exception, Rather then the norm...

I feel that orks aren't really devolving do to an evolutionary problem but rather due to the fact that they are disunited. I think that they function very similar to a halo flood infestation in that the larger the size of a group the smarter they get. For example when the flood start off they are just spores but when they build a gravemind they become exponentially more dangerous. This can be seen with how an ork infestation will start off with grots and savage orks and then will eventually work up to the first war boss who will take over the planet then build ships. So when a warlord like thraka will begin to unite the orks they will be using krork levels of tech.

Leave it to the Inquisitor to so casually name-check three obscure xenos in one breath, thus completely crushing my self-confidence. Crushed as I am, though, I still have a question regarding the excerpt from Clonelord. Is it possible Fabius meant that the exoskeleton, which moments before he described as crude, was the immediate conceptual precursor of his armor, as opposed to its immediate evolutionary successor?

In the war of the beast Theo orks made a network of stable teleportation "gates" housed primarily in attack moons. And the elder compared them to infants, whatever the Krok were capable of their tech would make everything save necron and aelari tech look like toys

By the way, I love the way you pronouce Ghazghullz' name

i always took it as orks scaled up verse what they were fighting so it could just be that the necrion forced them to be at peek at all times while nowadays the threats aren't strong enough to trigger their full potential. a harder you hit them the harder they hit back kinda thing

i think it was because the orcs had the ability to be connected across vast distances back when the warp gate system was used by them helped by the old ones. thereby allowing massive waaaaghs to be formed. Perhaps the waaagh itself was empowered or directed by the old ones since they would have that psychic power to do so. suddenly without the proper means of connection between them, the waaagh would slowly decline, because it never reached a proper potency the odd boys would never "quite" be right. the beast did manage to have a gigantic empire as far as i recalled. just multiply that several times and suddenly youd have proper odd boys and tons of orcs becoming prime orcs due to the waaagh field being strong enough.

Orks are my favorite race in standard fiction and they are funny. thanks man

Hot take heresy: hook up a mekboy brain to a computer and try to extract xenos tech for the benefit of the Imperium. Please don't BLAAM me, Inquisitor.

The word "Krork" is a palindrome.

You forgot to mention those Ork diplomats completely roasted the High Lords of Terra as well.

Could it have been purposeful on part of the Old Ones? Build a perfect war machine that eventually dies off as they devolve removing a possible future threat to themselves?

Was the ancient ork warlord known as The Beast a Krork? An evolutionary thowback to their ancient past, a Krork who escaped Necron captivity, or something else altogether?

I heard that during the Great Crusade, during a massive battle, the intensity of the fighting was turning some Orks into near Krorks. And apparently these near krorks were so powerful they nearly killed the Emperor. Could someone either correct me or elaborate further?

Krork and Ork strike me as a similar contrast as the one between dinosaurs/megafauna and modern day birds and animals. While the older specimens were more impressive on an individual level, their contemporaries have evolved into a more efficient collective organism. One that's arguably more 'advanced' in the design of their overall system, rather than in basic measures like isolated attributes of the individuals such as strength, size, intelligence, etc.

Love your videos, you know so much about the lore of something I love loads. Your videos are all 5*+ your videos are so binge worthy.

I love how reserves is an advanced tactic for orks :D

Well, Talker is now officially my favourite 40k character.

I kind of love the idea that (Kr)Orks were genetically engineered in such a way as to match but never exceed their opponents as a failsafe against them bringing about the end of all other life in the galaxy. The Orks are almost impossible to extinguish and through attrition would ultimately defeat all serious opposition before regressing to a primitive state, unable to pose a Galactic threat. It was a really clever idea and would have been brilliant if it had worked.

“ And thanks for watching ( ahh ) “... literally thought you were about to yell Waaaagh!!! I’d of laughed uncontrollably. As always very informative.

Wow, a month in and nobody's pointed this out! At 10:00 your reader says "Physically" while the text says "Psychically" That's a HUGE difference in meaning!

Enjoying your content as always.

Personally i think orks evolve based on the technology prowess of others. With further contact of tau and primaris , orks have devoloped many new weapons like tellyporta pads and many many different vehicles

This is your best video in a while. Very good work

This was my first video that I ever watched about 40k, thanks for getting me into this glorious masterpiece.

Ork in old days: stronk and big also smart Ork this day: REEEEE

I think it’s not a devolution so much as the fracturing of Kroc collective as a whole into smaller Orc civilizations has led to a weakening of the Waag field into smaller fields less capable of generating Kroc of sufficient power and mental acuity. However if all Orc factions in the galaxy were to be united into one civilization again they would once again become the krok of old with all of the power, technology and mental acumen thanks to the United waag fields power.

I can't get enough of Ork videos and you have tons...I love it

My theory is the de-evolution of krorks to the orks was part of the design. The old ones created them as foot soldiers and knew they could easily get out of hand after the war. To combat this they made then rapidly devolve to a mere pest, but if a big enough conflict arose they could re-evolve back into the krork, which we could see with the tyranids

Krork: ok I need to get this armored playing onto the stompa. Where did I put my welder and- Ork: SMASH IT

Being that one of the big general themes of 40k is entropy, it stands to reason that the Orks are a race in decline as well.

"a waaaah field" Well one Ork out there is a waluigi fan.

Eh, I prefer the theory that WAAAGH energy just makes their tech, ships, food, medicine, and strategies work regardless of pesky things like the laws of physics and common sense

im 30 books into the hh and im bored with all the seriousness i want to get into orks where do i start

Old one: No! You can't just ruin your genetical perfection! It was difficult to archive! Nooo! Ork: Ehehe Gun goes daka daka...

Wow, didn't realise that Prophet of the Whaaa had a prequel ( I recommend it. It's a good listen). I got to find a copy now. Thanks for the info. Great vid

Well... One one hand, the Orkz might suffer from a simular issue as the imperium of mankind: Lack of innovation. It is very much possible that Orkz are simply not capable of inventing new concepts or at least it is extremely rare and as the milennia pass by some ideas may simply get lost because they aren't required or used. If knowledge is lost over time and no new things are invented devolution is bound to happen (again, look at the imperium). On the other hand Orkz simply may be more effective even on a lower tech level. It is a general universal rule that everything thrives to operate on the lowest energy level it can get away with and if the Orkz as a species have felt that they are perfectly fine with where they are at, anything on top of that is just an unneccessary waste. Maybe the Krorks simply have not been challenged enough to the point where they felt like putting maximum effort into their fights and if you don't have to bring out the big guns for a few thousand years you may simply forget how to do it...

If Ork growth is affected by the number of Orks fighting around them, it makes sense that the Krorks were at their biggest when every single Krork in the galaxy fought on the same side during the War in Heaven. If they want to become that big again, i think Ghazgkhull is gonna have to recruit every single ork in the galaxy for his great WAAAGH!

Who else wants to see Primarch vs Primeork? LET'S GET READY TO RUMBBBBLLLLLLLLEE!

FIRST! BLESSED BE THE MACHINE SPIRIT! 000101000100 (OK second still BLESSED BE THE MACHINE SPIRIT!)

I think the question is framed incorrectly... The krok have gotten smaller and probably much dumber, but is that a step backwards? It's important to remember that evolution isn't about *improvement;* it's about what *works.* During the time of the old ones, it must have been extremely advantageous to be huge and smart, but think of the resource cost of something that big. Not just equipment: food, time to develop, energy exerted for movement... A single krok was a huge drain! Take away the old ones, who we can pretty safely assume provided a lot of that initial investment, and your hulks are left to their own devices. In much of the same way the colossal dinosaurs gave way to much smaller mammals when the environment changed, I can easily see it being advantageous for the krok to get 'cheaper' in the post-old one era: smaller and dumber, but much more numerous and easier to maintain and replace. No, I don't think the krok devolved into the orks... I think the orks greatly evolved from the krok.

It would be awesome to see the Krork in 40k in some way. Like a few krork apearing out of the warp.

Trazyn allowed Fabius Bile to have look at his collection? Gee, I hope he did not take something out of the original box.

I just think that a table top army of krorks would be awesome Imagining this 12 metres tall ork like monstrosities ripping space marine chapters apart is just delightful :D

Great video 40k Theories

Love it when you use the soundtrack from Final Liberation!

I think it is due infighting, due to a lack of a predetermined enemy, and purges perpetrated by the other races (primarily Aeldari). Those two coupled together would stifle development by killing the bigger and more sophisticated Orcs and disperding their WAAAGH as a consequence. At the end of the day you could see the reason in how the Imperium keeps them in line, to avoid having to face something similar to the Beast ever again

De-du? OI DIS HARD TA SAY!

i should point out that although its cause was unknown, the appearance of the Beast coincided (or maybe caused) huge steps forwards in Ork battle tactics, biology, size, *WAAAAAGH!* energy etc.

I love that orks are actually so strong in the warp/memetically but they use it so bizarrely, because they don’t actually have the collective intelligence to put it to use for anything too useful.

This is a great video! Thanks!

I like the idea that the only real difference between the orks and krorks is the scale of conflict they were involved in. That given a large enough WAAAAGGGHH current orks would reach the size and capabilities of the Krork, it's just that even given the scale of conflict in the galaxy now, it pales in comparison to the war in heaven,

Brewbois ? Sounds awesome, yet something tells me I wouldn't like the Ork brewed ale :S Great video Remleiz! Orks may devolved, but it's more likely that They need numbers (kinda like ants colony ) to "generate" increased number of intelligent dudes and more advanced tech. Who knows maybe the Beast might be some sort of a Krork or a Prime Ork, fingers cross to see what else will happened to Ghazghkull, maybe He will be pimped up into Krork/Prime Ork :D

In "Space Marines Battles: Overfiend" Trilogy(David Annandale) Orks from Waaagh of the Ork Empire of Octarius. Where bigger, stronger and more resilient then other orkoids. These orks where changed by the power of Kaela Mensha Khaine.

Up against the combined might of the Eldar and Krork, the Necrons were C'tan ducks.

That was a great audio drama and that part showed the old one's design. They integrated a Shield system from an Imperial Knight into a Gargant. Oh, and they ate the pilot too.

The Librarian when the old ones steal her idea: We stand here amid my achievement, not yours!

Loving the final liberation sound track

In Prophets of Waaagh, Talker is the best part. Incredibly fun/short audiobook

The one thing about Orks that makes me smile without fail is their entire approach to life and the universe. Just seeing a bunch of "da boyz" get together to WAAAAAAGGGGHHH all their problems away leaves me grinning like an idiot.

SUGGESTION; is Judge Dredd taking place in the same universe as Warhammer 40,000? Is Mega city One a low tech hive city? Is judge Dredd a Arbites? And are the Dark Judges Deamon princes. PLEASE ANSWER?!! I see a lot of similarities between the two and it’s driving me crazy. Love your videos, keep up the good work!

A very common misconception regarding the rules of Evolution is that the more *complex* one will prevail. That is not the case. The stronger/better adapted one will prevail. And genetic simplicity does have it's own kind of strenght. For 65 Million years or so, the ork have been selecting towards simplicity in Warfare. Aside from the odd Eldar culling, they did not have a serious challenge or enemy to fight on other planets. Basically their Krork Strenght has Attrophied and given rise to a simpler, robuster form of the Orks. Of course now that they got the Whetstone of the Imperium - and the resurgent Necrons - they might select to be closer to Krork strenght again.

I'd love to see an advanced Ork race were they stand upright as tall as primaris marines and as technologically and socially advanced

Supposedly once the Orks had a peace agreement with Humanity, who is to say they have not been degraded by Chaos as well.

Primaris Orks are needed

As PBS Eons often say, evolution isn't just about getting bigger, stronger or existing in a current state. It's about surviving and filling in those ecological niches better than other species. Orks are hugely numerous and can continuously keep reproducing. They haven't devolved, they've just filled a certain role (or roles) better than others in their locales through adaptation. Any similarities they have with other species would be convergent evolution. The same role, if approached from a different way.

Love this one love love the orks well done guys its does ask good questionssssss

WEEZ MAID DA DAKKA, VEN WE REALISED WE DONT NEED NO HOITY TOITY INTELLIJENCE

I HAVE A THEORY! What if the Emperor used some of these Mek Boyz genes in the creation of Perturabo? ;)

Very interesting video

Maybe the Orks creating their two gods devolved them?

Since their social status has control over their size too, couldn't one of the reasons be that in the days of the old ones, the whole of the krork was one people. That would mean a lot more social classes and more on higher rungs, which would mean more bigger specimens. Just a quick idea I got while watching :)

To be honest. This is possible, depending on the Ork. For most clans it is seen that the warlords are large, but soon killed by an opponent nob or clan. The bigger the ork, the bigger the chances of him developing not only himself, but those around them both physically and mentally. For the ork diplomats, they had to be unlocked in the gene code of the orks when they reach a certain state of cultural development. This is what I think. And if they one day reach the level of culture and technology of the Krork, then they may have more strains of genetically gifted orks, that unlock depending how large their culture and empire grew.

9:50 Holy fuck that is terrifyingly elegant for an ork!

Im gonna quote the late great loyalist captain of the 3rd grand company of the Emperors Children Solomon Demeter. "Whoever claims the orks as being mindless savages, never had to fight them."

My guess would be the old one's designed the Krork to need a kind of genetic maintenance at regular intervals otherwise they'd begin de-evolving into the race the Imperium today knows as the Orks. Since the Krorks like their Orkoid descendants were created to a warring race the old ones probably used this as a type of failsafe or to limit their destructive potential if the Krork ever betrayed them or if they survived past the old ones demise

As the ctan are referred to as gods are they in fact just that and could if all the ctan shards belonging to any single ctan be reunited considering their age theoretical power and knowledge would they be able to annihilate the chaos gods and anyone else for that matter and wipe out all life in the galaxy for the lack of a better term “fun of it”?

I suspect if they were to fight necrons again in any substantial number they'd 'evolve' again. The orks seem to be a hard counter to whoever their major enemies are. They seem quite capable of holding their own against chaos even though they're wielding their own psychic powers, and their gesalt conciousness is on the face of it, a big hard counter to the tyranids and their warp shadow. they also would make it very hard for tyranids to take over as they don't have anything for gene stealers or other infiltrators to infiltrate, and reproduce about as quickly as the tyranids

You say devolution- I say end of a scourge- Either that or they are simply reverting to animal level, then to fungi, and then as food for the imperium