I could have just renamed this video "What if Rogal Dorn went Bald" and it would more or less be the exact same To see an Imperial Fist's Bald Eagle go here : www.patreon.com/majorkill

I like how the Dark Angels went bad because Luther took over, not that The Lion turned. Keeping with Canon and the knowledge that the Lion would never turn traitor

The way Vulkan turns to chaos is the perfect analogue to some African proverbs that said something along the line of "A child that is unable to find warm in his village will burn it down just to feel it"

I think it'll be worse since Guilliman's trait of being the most organized among the Primarchs might carry on if ever he would become a traitor. Imagine an organized chaos legion

I love the detail of how each legion changed, is not just they switch places, is an exploration of each primarchs personalities. I love It 10/10 would read It again

This version of Angron actually makes the character very compelling and not some edgy little ball of rage.

So loyalist Angron is basically Sanguinius in canon? And beside the pain glove, another reason why Rogal Dorn turns to Chaos is because big E make the "taco tuesday" real

I love the concept art of Jaghatai as a Slaaneshi centaur. Fuckin epic. The Ultramarine armor with Tau technology and the Imperial Fist becoming the Black Legion while the Luna Wolves turn to the Black Templars. Lorgar's story was the best when his faith was so strong he literally lit up, purged corruption in a citywide radius then died peacefully.

One of my favorite parts of these fanfics is how often Fabius is still evil, like it’s hard to make him seem good without rewriting the whole story to make it fit.

Even in a loyalist switch, the lion is loyal. He can’t be turned, only delayed. Although, I’m immensely interested in what Warp shenanigans the Lion would wreck upon the immaterium.

Traitor sanguineous would be scary. Recall that in the books the powers of chaos wanted him to be the champion and that Horus was a second choice. I think the heresy would not have even been close had Sanguineous fallen. I get the feeling that we rarely see his full potential as his abilities are tempered by a fear of rage and losing control. He's always so soft spoken and diplomatic. Him joining chaos would remove those barriers and he would be unstoppable.

Loyalist magnus would be cool for cannon timelines

And in the 40K era the major threat in this timeline that brings back the Silent King is the return of the Krorks, the Tyranids have eaten the Tau to the brink of extinction (The Farsight Enclaves are still around and are currently leading the remnants of their race, though the non-Tau allied species have abandoned them to fend for themselves against the Nid’s onslaught) while the Squats are prepared to launch a massive strike against the Craftworld Eldar who are also being mercilessly hunted by the servants of Chaos. As for the state of Chaos itself at this point in time, it turns out that Slannesh is currently the one dominating the Great Game with the most influence on the Imperial Population instead of just twiddling his/her thumbs in our timeline. (much to the ire of Khorne) Which as you can imagine is quite a massive problem for the Ynnari, who only make up a tiny fraction of the Eldar Race in this reality.

I could see a loyalist Angron being really nuanced with how he deals with his rage and empathy. I'd love to see it 🥲

Honestly wouldn't mind seeing videos like this and others in the future. It's surprising how much the Warhammer fanfic community gets so overlooked and should get more attention.

*Time traveler moves a rock* The Dorian heresy occurs instead of the Horus heresy

Wait if the webway wasn't ever compromised wouldn't that mean that Dorne just succeeded in failing at his job just more destructively to everything but what chaos was actually worried about?

I truly believe that if lorgar and perty are handled better that they can truly become great villains. Like if perty never became a deamon primarch and instead a like leader of a renegade space marines faction. I also think if lorgar could actually do something besides praying in his chapel he could unite chaos and be it’s actual herald instead abbadon like imagine him leading chaos undivided.

4:16 That means Rogal Dorn's hand saved his life by detaching itself with the Magic Pain Glove from his arm

The problem with the Dornian Heresy or any alt history in 40k for that matter is that it fails to take into a count that if Magnus managed to sit on the Golden Throne, the Emperor is free to crush any rebellion. That's why taking out that young dumb Red Cyclips was imperative for Chaos.

I really like this "What if?" mostly. Except the Slamanders part. Seems kinda cheap to write them of like that. :X There should be a really good reason for Vulkan to change 180°.

Yo, I would definitely love if you covered Robutian Heresy. I haven't completed it yet but the chapter on Emperor's Children really made me hooked into the whole thing.

Now I want to see an animated video of Loyalist Angron fighting the traitors to a last stand kind of like how Noble Six fought on Reach but with chain axes and shit tons of more blood.

I endorse Roboutian Heresy for the next topic to be covered. I love how it handles the respective primarchs rise and...fall. Some more tragic than others but tragic all the same.

If things were reversed....I know The Ultramarines would be Chaos Undivided and Guilliman would be the favored son of Chaos. Which would also mean Lorgar would fit in perfectly with the Imperium as it is now as Lord Commander or whatever fancy title Lorgar would come up with. Imagine Lorgar being able to give a purpose to the faithful of the Imperium because he believes it as much as they do and Chaos being a completey united and organized force under Guilliman with proper logistics.

I love the idea of Magnus the good and Puertorabo the respected and loved.

Also speaking of Fanfics I saw this one fanfic called Imperium Ascendant. Long story short after a failed attempt of the Chaos Marines who travelled back in time to kill the Loyalist Baby Primarchs by the actions of the Legion of the Damned. The God Emperor of 41st Millenium warned the Emperor of the 30th millenium about what happened because they sucked as a Daddy. As a result with Big E raising the Primarchs as a good dad as well improving his plans on the Great Crusade. The Imperium of Men became a lot of better place than the ones we know today. Now to be honest it was not yet finished and the author had passed his work on another author since he has more responsibilities to do. Yet what I love it in this fanfic is that the author created some stories which I wish it was true to the 40k because it was simply awesome. 1. Cegorach was not an Eldar God but rather an Old One who was tasked to disguise himself as an Eldar God to supervise the Eldar Gods whom the Old Ones have created. 2. The Emperor of Mankind was the reincarnation of an Old One called the Craftsman. This is because it was this Old One Craftsman who approached the ancient Human Shamans and thought them how to perform that suicide ritual with the Craftsmans own assistance. 3. The Chaos Gods was not created from the emotinal fuckery of the War in Heaven but rather it was a creation of the Old Ones who at that time were so desperate to stop the C'tan and the Necrons from fucking everything up. Unfortunately this planned went beyond south and made things even worst for the Milky Way Galaxy. But by a miracle the Necron's Silent King himself approached the Old Ones and offered them an alliance in exchange for Perfect Flesh for his people thus allowing the Old Ones' forces and the Necrons to tag together and stop the Chaos with the Old Ones facing them on the Warp while the Necrons faces the Daemons on the Material Universe while at the same time imprisoning the C'tan into shards.

My favorite of the alternate heresy stories is the Renegade Saga, which pits a chaos emperor against Horus and other loyalist primarchs. It's not a 1 for 1 swap, as many traitors remain loyal to the emperor and chaos, while some do not.

Funny thing, the art at 0:59 is actually from a similar fan-fic called the Roboutian Heresy, where the Ultramarines are both the Arch-Traitor and Arch-Heretic. Lion has Kairos in his ear from day one, making him fall to Tzeentch Fulgrim had Librarians to tell him not to touch the Lear blade, and got hekka scarred by the Dark Eldar Perturabo actually gave a shit about people The Khan gets *fucking possessed by the Lord of Hunts* Leman goes of the deep end with his paranoia, to the point he trusts sketchy Xenos more than his Father Dorn loses Inwit, causing him to spiral into totalitarion levels of dicktator Curze is actually loved and trusted by his people Kahbanda didn't interfere with Sanguinius on Signus, so Slannesh got him Ferrus incidentally opened a warp rift the gave him Nurgle's Rot Angron didn't get jumped by the Eldar and enlsaved afterwords Guliman lost everything to a consipracy before Big-E found him, and after that, jumped into the Eye of Terror for not getting to be Warmaster Mortarion killed his adoptive daddy first chance he got Magnus got humbled before his Father even found him The Emperor was more of a father for Horus Lorgar hates religion with the same conviction he loves it in cannon Vulcan got adopted by the Salamander his legion is named after Corvus was found by the Tech Guilds and the Emperor had to put on an act to get him back, but Corax thinks the act is the real him Alpharius and Omegon get a backstory.

In all honesty, Lorgar would be the exact thing the guardsmen needed. I mean it’s still 9 of the most powerful legions, so Lorgar’s power of speech would be a significant morale benefit for the loyalists

I like seeing Dorn in Horus position Imo Guilliman would be rather nurgle tbh, simply bc he is the cleanest, most correct one trying to hold up status quo, clean perfect homeworld, wrote the rulebook for all astartes (in the "normal" timeline) ....he prefers things not changing and being constant safe Similar to the stagnant safety nurgle promisses. All of Guillimans standarts would prevail in a very twisted way

I really love the designs and art for the reverse primarchs, they all look really good. And I never thought I'd see the day that Majorkill would say he liked Angron and that he shouldn't be aborted

Other than Vulkan being evil, this seems to be a better storyline than the original Horus Hersey at least in my opinion

I have just heard of the term, "Femboy Thousand Sons" then googled it, I believe I found the artist who is leading the assault

The Iron Hands being corrupted by the void dragon is way better than I would’ve expected. And it honestly makes sense. Also love that the only reason Vulkan turns is because no one will give him a hug.

This is a cool concept, really surprised the Sanguinius ended up falling to Nurgle, my money would have always been on Russ as according to TTS Magnus Nurgle is technically nature incarnate and come on Blood Angels falling to the Blood God isn't exactly subtle.

Not gonna lie... the art of loyal Angron is probably the best looking and the coolest looking 40K picture ever... absolutely magnificent piece of art 👍

Honestly just hearing the changeup for Angron yanked my heartstrings a little. Instead of being the buttmonkey, he got to be the Big Guy, if only for a while.

I'd love a video on each legion on how you think they could fall or how you think they'd behave as loyalist

Having read much of the Dornian Heresy, I actually have come to prefer aspects of it to canon. I NEED loyalist night lords, iron warriors and world eaters in my life.

Wait a second, real question: If the webway project was completed, wasn't there a way for the Emperor to get help from the stranded Death Guard via said web way? Same thing with the Thousand Sons, considering that Magnus knew shit was up, he would not leave stuff to chance and would move towards Terra in time for it's defense. It is a awesome story, but I think we have some rough edges do tie here.

Dang, i had no idea that the taco conflict coused by Rogal Dorn in a TTS podcast had so much lore!

I have been thinking about that scenario too ever since I was some fanart of guilleman as the warmaster. Personally I came to the conclusion that if Sanguinius had fallen to Khorne (as he almost did in canon) the imperium would have just lost. I also just really think Loyalist Angron would have been so much better than chaos Angron. Traitor Guilleman would also have just been in a better position than Horus, Horus had his entire legion but Guilleman would have the entirety of Ultramar and all its resources/sacrifices.

Perfect, I was actually curious how it would play out if the Primarchs had their sides switched

It is definitely a interesting topic to question “what if”. For I have always liked that multiverses idea.

I hope you will talk about the Roboutian Heresy, Majorkill

It seems not even Dorn is immune to the corruption of baldness

I’d love to see a video about the incident where the creation of the Codex Astartes nearly led to another civil war among the remaining loyalists after the Horus Heresy.

I was actually able to enjoy this video quite a bit. Good job Majorkill. Credit where credit is due. But you should totally make a video about the Roboutian Heresy, because while I haven't ready every chapter of it, I did like how it gave us a great view of what several of the traitor primarchs could've been if not turned to chaos and all.

Ya know, honestly never read the PDF, I have however, MANY times, listened to the Theoreticus Heresy done by Remleiz of 40k theory which for the longest time I thought WAS just him doing an audio version of the Dornian Heresy(given Dorn becomes the Arch Traitor in that one too) and I absolutely loved it(as evidenced by the multiple times I've listened to it.) Give it a listen you ever get the chance Major, that aside now I'ma' have to give the original Dornian Heresy a read when I've the time. But yeah give Theoreticus a listen, just as detailed and amazingly played off well. That aside thanks Major now I have ANOTHER reading project for when I finally have time off >.

Didn't expect Majorkill to cover this, the Dornian heresy was actually brought to my attention not too long ago, so seeing someone cover it now is pretty sweet.

I loved this series being developed on B&C back in the day. Also MK’s backdrop is hilarious “only warhammer memorabilia, except one plant.”

I’d definitely watch more of this and would definitely buy a loyal angron mini

Pretty cool ideas, especially how the ultramarines and the dark angels were treated, but on the other hand I didn't like Salamanders and Blood Angels ended up, felt kinda weak, really. IMO, the Blood Angels should be the ones to turn to Khorne. See, maybe the Emperor found out about that the Blood Angels had their, ahem, "defects", and Sanguinius, fearing that him and his sons would end up like the lost primarchs, ran away from the crusade, maybe ending up in the eye of terror (almost like Lorgar did) and then fully embracing their rage in Khorne's name. Although I really like Vulkan's deformed appearance making him kinda hated by everyone else, I think that the author reaaaally missed the opportunity to make the Salamanders the Nurgle legion: they are ugly, they are hated, they are resilient, and deep down they just wanted to be hugged, right? So, who else, if not Papa Nurgle, would embrace them? Right???? As a bonus, I would go out of the way and say, fuck it, let the Space Wolves be the Tzeentch legion: say they were tired of being the Emperor's lapdogs and, you know, wanted the *change* (you see what I did there?) things up and become their own bosses and finally, finally get to beat up the Thousand Sons on their own. Dorn wouldn't even try to convert them, he would just look at this slighty different Burning of Prospero and think "well, thanks I guess 👍", that would also explain how Magnus wouldn't get in the Golden Throne too, as a loyal Magnus wouldn't be able to ask for Tzeentch's help when Russ was about to kill him. Later on, as the space wolves become some sort of early Red Corsairs and hide themselves in the Eye of Terror (or the Maelstrom, I don't know), Tzeentch gets to mutate them like crazy, think of something like a chaosy curse of the Wulfen, and then Leman Russ would try something dumb and end up getting lost in Tzeentch's labyrinth for the rest of the timelime while his sons keep becoming weird half bird half werewolf monsters and tearing up anyone that gets on their way. Kinda of a crazy idea I guess, but it would somewhat fit in with the Tzeentch vibe of tricking people into submission. EDIT: I could also see Lorgar involved in the Age of Apostasy a few millennia down the line, and also, what happened to Malcador? Are there Grey Knights in this version of the universe? If the Iron Hands get to mess with the Void Dragon, do they make the Necrons wake up a few millennia earlier?

I just recently found my old notebook containing my alternate Warhammer 40k universe. Seeing this vid again just makes me want to share it. The Ophiuchus & Angron Universe: A version of Warhammer where The 2nd and 11th primarchs still existed and we're instrumental during the heresy. Angron never got the butcher's nails and still has his glorious hair and the Horus heresy while it did took longer was eventually taken down. Thanks to Sanguineous, Angron and Celestius (the 2nd primarch) working together they were able to subdue Horus, and the Emperor executed Horus for his hubris. However their victory was short lived. Ophiuchus who was tasked to scout out the warp returned with dire news. The warp was much larger than what was thought possible and the realm of chaos was nothing more but a small part of it and worse Ophiuchus has accidentally awakened something or somethings from it. The imperium of man prepared for the incoming threat and became stronger than ever before thanks to the knowledge Ophiuchus brought back but they now have worse enemies to fight with. Old gods from previous iterations of the universe and/or pieces of them are awakening from their celestial graves and invading the universe and their surrounding realms. The gods of Chaos too now faces this ancient enemy older than themselves. Old gods of time, space, entropy, darkness, and destruction now awakened aims to eat everything in their madness in an attempt to rebuild and revive themselves. The first invasion was by the gods of time, space and destruction, their entrance caused another rift between the eye of terror turning it into an X and making it far larger than before separating the galaxy into 4 parts. The battle was hard fought and required the reluctant cooperation between the Loyalist and Traitor parties resulting in the sealing of the fragments of destruction, and the escape of time and time devouring space when it was incapacitated by the Emperor but this victory did not came without a heavy cost, The battle left the Emperor, Magnus and Ophiuchus gravely injured. Now the Emperor was placed upon the golden throne, becoming the beacon of humanity or at least in his corner of the galaxy, Magnus was treated much the same but with a smaller throne and Ophiuchus was left frozen in a genuflecting position while gripping on his sword stabbed to the ground on a dead planet chanting the same chant over and over again as well as begging his father and humanity for forgiveness, serving as a shield generator for his corner of the galaxy. The remaining primarchs either went missing or were also gravely injured and had to be put in stasis to be kept alive. Some even reluctantly joined chaos to protect whichever corner of the galaxy they ended up in, like Sanguinius joining Khorne and Celestius joining Slaanesh. Angron was the only one to be largely fine after the entire debacle and continued to guide humanity on his and Kyven's corner of the galaxy. I made this when I was new to Warhammer 40k and I'm still pretty proud of it. I can't believe I actually forgot about this for 3 years. My favorite part of it is that Angron and Kyven too were worshipped as gods by the people of their corner of the galaxy but unlike the Emperor, Angron just accepted their devotion but mostly ignored it not aware that it has slowly been strengthen him and Ophiuchus Kyven.

This was amazing! Im excited to here about different heresies

One fan theory that's kinda lame but interesting is that Big E is Groundhog Day-ing. He's pressed for time on how to squeeze The Great Crusade, The Webway, and avoiding rebellion in within the timeframe of The Eye of Terror opening and it getting too powerful, but he runs through all the scenarios, knowing he'll have to sacrifice many of the primarchs when push comes to shove, the question is which ones. In that theory, The Dornian and the Roboutian heresies both actually happen. It adds a dimension to why he's acting so distant and uneager to share his long term plans with anyone. Also, the canon where he's kept on life support on the throne might be the one timeline he can't reset, he didn't see himself getting incapacitated like that. The Chaos Gods love that.

I personally love the Word Bearers Arc of the Dornian Heresy. I would also love a Fanfic in which canon lore and Dornian Heresy overlap with 18 loyalist Primarchs vs. 18 heretical Primarchs such that each loyalist primarch had to face his evil version. I think this Gould result in some awesome stories…

I love your channel and you’ve been the biggest reason I’ve got into warhammer 40k

I absoloutely adore this, it's so well worked out

Siggi as Chaos’ champion? Takes place of cannon Abbadon? Would be absolutely *legend* and give a whole new meaning to black crusades.

The Lion, honestly, always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Maybe one day in someones canon he will be war master and conquer the galaxy. I would be really interested in Cyphers role though, since he always seems to have the Lions back as well as saving a certain Primarch.

Dude i JUST saw you answer that comment on the other video about the dornian heresy and here it is. Bloody legend.

Thank you for asking what your fans wanted to see and following through. You're a legend!

Would sure love to see the Rowboat Guiletteman Heresy next.

This is one I've seen around. I like how this went. Especially how the Lion was always loyal, he was just blindsided by Luther as he was previously. All of this is cool, and I'm curious to see it.

This video is super cool, thanks for doing it

Nice timing, just yesterday I was reading about this story.

Making the black legion into the black templars is pretty genius imo.

"I killed Horus by being good... In pretend" -Rogal Dorn

Thank you!!!! I always wanted to see a video about the heresy of dorn

Definitely want to see more of these. I never got to finish the Dornian Heresy pdf when I tried to read it.

MAJORKILL LIVES! STOMP STOMP!

Idk, somehow that looks like hardcore chaos fans got tired of telling everybody that chaos is the only way and wrote this. Of course it would be nice to fix the story of some primarchs, such as in Angron's case. But still, loyalist were written as dudes who will not fall into chaos. Is it bad, that GW makes that accent on the loyalists? Yes. But Warhammer already taught me to improvise, adapt and overcome.

I enjoyed this very much. It is very interesting to see the "what ifs" of warhammer 40k

YESSS!! Hope you ended up cover Roubutian Heresy in the near future.

Started reading the pdf, must say... I wish Baldermort would do a audio book on this. I am already doing his voice in my head.

Don’t forget, in this scenario, Horus had beautiful and majestic hair. Horus and Fulgrim would go to the Custodes beauty salon on Terra.

This art is awesome! Great video too

Would love to hear about the other Heresies!

I kinda also do a reverse roles fanfiction in my head, I named it the Sanguine Heresy, based off on how there are pairs of loyalist-traitor primarks, and since Horus, the arch-heretic is paired with Sanguinius, it's only fair if he gets the role as the head of the heresy, even if it wouldn't make as much sense than for example, Dorn of G-man.

If Magnus stays loyal and does not fuck up the Empeirs webway project, then there would be no demon invasion to hold of. So why would the Emperor in this scenario not just leave his throne room and obliterate the traitors during the seige of Terra? Surley he is powerful enough to do so.

AMAZING art in this video

I'd love to see you eventually Explain the Blood Pact

BY THE EMPEROR I'VE BEEN WAITING THIS! 😭

I feel like the blood angels turning to knorne makes more sense …

This feels so refreshing! I had not realised how bored i was listening to the same story with small diferences. This actually feels like something new in 40k, which is rare

I gotta say I always thought the iron hands were kind of boring. But this xeno traitor origin vs just chaos taint traitor twist version of them is insanely cool and interesting

It would have been cooler if maybe Perty and Dorn could square off properly like in the lore, but on opposite sides. Perty was better at laying sieges than Dorn, whilst Dorn was better at defending sieges than Perty. Put them in situations they kinda know, but are not comfortable in. Have them make blunders and mistakes and attempt to adjust on the fly, not just kill off Perty.

The most massive difference would be the completed web way! I can't believe you didn't talk about that more... or does the PDF suggest it wasn't t finished when Emps became a spectral vegetable and no one else was capable of doing it? What about Magnus?

I love how the Blood Ravens got the Rubric treatment in this

The Dornian Heresy was a community work done by the Bolter&chainswords forums back in the late 2000's Each entries for each legion was redacted and presented in the style of the Chapter Approved articles about the various Legions and Chapters from the early 2k's and 3rd/4th Ed era. These where also supplemented by Illustrations from the site most talented members(that you can see in the vid and find in the pdf) and even Models and paint schemes.

Can you imagine Sangy and the blood angels with the warp power boost. Wouldn’t like to face down that fight! I’m calling an outright loss, a clean sweep if the loyalist and traitor primarchs were reversed. There again, the sway of the Mechanicum might not have gone as smoothly without Horus and his persuasive voodoo!

Never clicked so fast in my life

Wow! This sound kick-ass! Thanks for the video!

Love the loyalist Horus artwork at the end

I'm just at the start of the video. But if Sanguinius and Dorn would've been with the traitors, it would've been the end from the beginning. Not just because most would take their side, but because they were very good in combat. If Lion or the Khan would join to that, topped with Leman, it wouldn't be a fair fight. It would be a massacre. But I'm still very interested in the video. It just seems to be very far from fair.

I love the fact that the alpha legion spends their time here memeing on rowboat.

More of these please

Yes please, I really enjoy the Roboutian Heresy that would be great to hear you talk about.