The original Epic started at a Horus heresy game. The game did not move into 40k until 2e was released.

Legions Imperialis is one of the most fun games I have played

I love Legion Imperialis, lived adding my Titan Legions to the fun, and feel that the community is both large and positive. Compared to 40k its a small game, but compared to everything else its huge. I have played GW games since 1996, and I dont find the pricing prohibitive or problematic. Constantly beeing sold out is a problem with the web store exclusive stuff, eveything else is easy to find in stores.

I’d add as well that in the UK you can pick up the box for £96, which is about 185 dollaridoos - considerably less of an investment. I would not have touched this at Aussie prices.

Well, what I found curious was that they have definitely canned Aeronautica Imperialis, however Adeptus Titanicus is getting regular restocks on the books, cards, starter set and Forge World upgrade packs (which aren't listed in the Legions Imperialis section) and Adeptus Titanicus just had some brand new sets of fancy dice and transfer sheets released. Plus, the Legions Imperialis boxes for titans and knights feature both the Adeptus Titanicus logo and the Legions Imperialis logo and each box includes the Adeptus Titanicus weapon cards and command terminals in the box, a new instruction booklet with both logos, and the new scenic base which is the same size as the one used in Adeptus Titanicus. That leads me to believe that Adeptus Titanicus is probably here to stay for the forseeable future. The boxes of aircraft on the other hand, do not have the Aeronautica Imperialis logo on the instruction books despite the "Warhammer - The Horus Heresy: Aeronautica Imperialis" logo being featured on the back of the box alongside the Legions Imperialis logo and the Aeronautica section and all the rules have been removed from both the Games Workshop website and the Warhammer Digital website. I have to say, in the three games of Legions Imperialis I've played so far, I have really enjoyed the game. 40k has gone out the window and I'm pretty much wrapped up in Necromunda, LI and The Old World right now. Legions Imperialis worked really on a 3'x3' table with the starter sets (minus the titans) and a slightly bigger game (with some knights and aircraft), and it also worked great on the 44"x60" 40k size table with 1500-2000 points.

Played Epic back in the day, loved it. Playing Epic Armageddon recently- and this came along and I was quite keen. Very fun, and whilst lots of problems exist I want to support the direction for the game. It's worth the hobby dollar in my opinion, probably not for everyone?

Old school EPIC player here. I've loved this scale of gaming since Space Marine in 1989..

My thoughts are if the game does well, they will expand it to have other factions, cheaper stand alone minies, and terrain. Just have to be patient.

The original Adeptus Titanicus game - from which Epic evolved - was also set in the Horus Heresy. Xenos only arrived with the Space Marine boxed set. Fast forward a few years and along came Epic 40,000 - which I think was the best iteration of the game so far. Unfortunately, many of the old school Epic players hated it. So there’s definitely nothing new under the sun here! You can’t please everybody.

I don't blame you for not paying that price, that's insane. It's considerable less in the U.S. You make good points, Adeptus Titanicus & Aeronautica Imperialis are both great games. I play them both and was initially upset that they seem to have gone away as well. That said I can still play them and I'm enjoying Legions Imperialis as well. Hopefully it will grow and improve and expand.

My main issue with Legion Imperialis is that GW no longer support Aeronautica Imperialis, which is at the same scale as Legions Imperialis, and, imo, a far more fun game. Add to that the no Xenos factions (yeah I get that it's 30k - Orks, Eldar and Squats were all around in the lore during this era ) as mentioned and Legion Imperialis isn't really enticing me to spend more money.

This game is one of the best games GW have ever released (along with Warmaster, Necromunda and Mordheim). I’m all in.

Cheers to old school Epic. A time when GW wasn’t completely corrupted and cared for its customers.

Great video and review/summary. Would love to see more of these from you dude!

I’m absolutely loving LI! It’s so cool to have my favourite 30k units at a smaller scale. Have been slowly building my marine force as and when I can. Thankfully was already deep into Titanicus so have titans and knights painted up! Love the setting of the HH, glad LI went for this setting rather than 40k. Edit- just got to the aeronautica/Titanicus part and yes it’s a big shame aeronautica in its 40K form is discontinued but thankfully Titanicus is alive and kicking, definitely still supported!

Two thoughts: 1. price. While 3000 point games aren't particularly cheap, the way in which LI is compartmentalized with regards to "one box = full formation or detachment" is extremely logical and friendly towards planning out collecting and army building. Buying one box immediately expands your army in a way that feels meaningful, which IMO avoids the temptation to buy a bunch of boxes at once to try and "have enough". 2. Xenos / more factional variety. While this is pure speculation I strongly suspect we're going to see an "Age of the Imperium" imprint attempted to follow the Horus Heresy. Fiction and gaming materials set in the centuries following the Heresy during the recovery and rebuilding of the Imperium. The 30k troops and tech would still be in use for some time. Existing HH and LI armies models would be directly usable. But it was during this era that the Imperium began dealing with Xenos again, especially Orks. This invites creating 30k-era Orks for HH and LI to expand the lines. Plus another creative swerve would be creating a Xenos faction that isn't in 40k - some civilization the early Imperium fought that is no longer a threat by the 41st millennium.

Having played both Heresy and LI, I greatly prefer Legions Imperialis. It's a more tactical, more thoughtful game, which privileges skillful maneuver and clever play. I eagerly look forward to my LI games, while the games that I played of Heresy sometimes felt like a chore. It's true that the infantry models are not the best, but I really think this is essentially meaningless: once you put paint on them and get them on the table, you're never going to notice the flaws in the sculpts. They do the job that they need to, and the varied poses give the impression of a large and dynamic force of infantry. I know a lot of people are disappointed about the exclusion of xenos -- but there will be some additional factions coming to give a bit more variety. I would expect Mechanicum at the very least.

LI is perfect for the newer high resolution resin printers. The minis I print look much, much better than their GeeDubs counter parts. It is cool having multiple super heavy legion vehicles. Especially since you can digitally kitbash them into any legion you want. The rules are pretty good too.

I used to play fantasy back in 2015 and haven't touched warhammer since the death of 8th ed, due to LI I have got back into warhammer, so I guess I count as a new player ^^

New Epic player here (but old wargamer). Here in Europe it costs around 150€ (250 australian dollar). I don't agree on some points: firs, about painting: the tanks, titans, are like 20/28mm minis, so you can really go into details if you want to. Also the thing is, it's easier/faster to paint overal. And about de points needed to play it, 3000 is really a lot, the standard seems to be around 1500, and the game is perfectly enjoyable with half that, so with just the box set. I agree that no xenos is problematic for some players, even though I love the 30k setting. I think tnat in the long run, if the game succeeds, they will do a great crusade expansion with xenos (orcs/eldars). Rules are not a revolution, but the game is really fun to play.

I fully understand why some people hate it, don't like it, or simply too expensive. But I can verify it plays really well.

They could easily have orks and eldar added to the game and still keep it 30k era. It was a real shame when they announced they had no intention of adding xenos anytime soon if at all.

I bought a copy of the rules for £10 of of Ebay. And a friend printed a 2,000pt army for me. So only £40 all in total. Not spent a penny with GW for years. Fisrt GW game I have played in 10+ years.

I recently ordered some legions imperialis astartes squads and a reaver titan. I decided i dont like the rules of LI so instead i asked my mates if they fancied starting an Armageddon night once a week. We bought a load of 6mm 3d printed tyranids , 8mm orks and some plague demons. Incredible fun, and costs you a fraction of what a full sized heroic scale army would. I mean for less than the cost of a box of tac marines you get a full list with dreads, plasma veterans, missile devs, termies and command. Mini hammer is the way forward

Andy Chambers (writer of epic and bfg) also had his hand in dropzone and drop fleet(now distributed by TT combat). Given the bigger scale of imperialis they are somewhat compatible.

Its my first GW game. I usually tend to play T9A, KoW, WmH and Deadzone. I personally like the miniatures and the rules. Don't care for the price. Speaking about rules. It's too much. Would prefer if they would strip some away. ^^

I get the feeling like with a lot of newer GW 1.0 game releases (HH, ToW, AoS) that this is a beta test and a gauging of interest and will be followed with a 2.0 that will be much more expansive. We have seen that with all successful titles GW has done in the last decade. My hope is that 2.0, and you see the references to EPIC as a unique logo on the product will be a 40k release and they will continue to trickle out HH units but blast out a 40k or even fantasy version in a few years. Again the EPIC logo with no 30k or 40k or whatever after it seems to be laying groundwork as a potential whole range for other products.

I never played Aeronautica, Titanicus, or Epic so I don’t have a reference there. The rules seem fun, I like the models, and I think this is the BEST way to play The Horus Heresy (yes I know it’s heresy to say such things). It does have a host of problems though. It’s just that when I think of The Horus Heresy I think of big scale conflicts and the regular HH game just doesn’t feel like that. Yes it has some amazing models (especially the primarchs), but that’s not really making me want to play it over Legions. I do have a problem with the game being best played at 3k points and the box set only gives you ~900 points per side I don’t like. I don’t have to deal with Australian prices but I still think it’s a lot of money to sink into the game. Also if I recall since titans can only be up to 30% of the points in your army you can’t really play with the titans they give you without just saying screw the rules. I would’ve loved to have xenos forces too and instead of it being a 30k game have it be 40k. I know there are a number if fans that are turned off by the fact there are no xenos and they really don’t like the imperial factions so they already are turned off of The Horus Heresy. Maybe if this game does really well and there is enough of the fans calling for it GW will make a 40K version. Probably won’t happen but hey I can dream can’t I.

It really does suck as someone that got into Titanicus and Aeronautica by chance, really late. I like the scale, because it fits with a lot of other war games at this scale, like BattleTech. I was hoping to fill out a little as I could afford it. As Wellywood said, the price point was high. I'm not rich. And, it's gotten even more expensive as an American. So, I'm stuck with what I managed to pick up, and if I want to add to it, it'll be by random chance or I'll have to get creative. Orks, for instance, are a faction that I can kitbash stompas and trukks pretty easily. Still. [sigh]

I am so tempted now...😂

Believe new Epic is 8mm, old school epic was 6mm

GW needs to build a whole new factory to meet demand. Maybe even spend the money on extra moulds and build a North American factory as it eats half the product or more these days.

Evening

I think the assertion that LI doesn't offer anything different or over and above other GW products in terms of gameplay is a little off. The mechanic of assigning then revealing orders, combined with alternating activation, does actually offer something different in terms of gameplay. Admittedly I'm a veteran from the old Epic days with some nostalgia, but I don't play GW games generally because I find i-go-u-go boring and tactically inferior. LI has me buying GW product (& 3d printing it) for the first time in decades or more, because even though it is a nostalgia cash-grab aimed at people like me, the order+alternating mechanics are genuinely better and more interesting gameplay than 40K et al.

I m new player and its major disappointment I can't even get models to start playing normal size game.

Good summary. I agree that for the price, it should have xenos options. Otherwise, it's too limited. I have a buddy who wants to play, so maybe it's worth going in at 50/50

Even the Horus Heresy rule books are dry, dull, and quite boring. Epic Warpath from Mantic is looking better imho.

No please express yoir distane more people need to. It feels like they changed the scale just to spite people from using old epic models Also what genius decided on round bases? Or are they aware people won't be able to afford large scale armies where they would count. The price is disgusting, compared to when I was young and could buy entire warbands for about £5 The potential for creating an epic game starting with the thunder warriors, unification wars on terra then the crusade before the heresy introducing Xenos armies never seen before and so on would be astounding. With small forces done for even £20 a box The ceo and his lakies at GW have become delusional with the money they are worth thus forgotten are those who made it what it was. They need bum rushing and dry slaps gallor Is there a way to message their top brass or creative department

"nothing stand out in the rules compared to other GW games" ??? What ? This is the only GW army games where you give tactical order and that play in alternate activations, also the only one where you garnison buildings and can destroy them, the only game where you mix all scale from infantry, vehic, flyers, knight and titans... first fire, reactive open fire on ennemies detachment moves... pairing on melee combat... Did you read a different rules book ?

Compare the value to the generic Horus Heresy box set. Its a sick joke.

Moot points, all of them debunkable, you haven't even played it. Epic space marine and titanicus were 1980s and 30k setting. Armageddon wasn't 90s, early 2000s. Xenos at epic scale, sure, how does one go about converting the 32mm range to 10mm? Even in the mid 90s you had orks and elder really. Squats didn't make it into epic 40k bar the specialist magazine, chaos were fringe at best. Tau were forge world and for armageddon and again required a specialist magazine. Workshop barely can keep in top of the range now without opening a massed armies game for 18 odd factions, that's ludicrous. So to my point, xenos were never really covered properly, and some, like dark eldar, or sisters, or genestealer cult do not lend themselves to mass army games. A gamers game? Epic was for most of the 90s the third big box title to 40k and Whfb up until 2004. It was 40k, Whfb, epic 4pk, titan legion, spacemarine etc. The looks of them are subjective, you don't like them, well done. But to say they can't be painted nice, you're on crack, check out rogue hobbies, hell There's actual golden demon winners from the 90s that did epic paint jobs ffs. The armies included are basic forces, starter armies. Please show me how much you get points wise for leviathan? Hell where's the boxed terrain for leviathan? Old world didn't come with a hill or trees, must be crap. Ah warcry, it comes with terrain... And what? 12 models at best ffs. Regarding the rules, understand the scale, special rules bog down a game that is going to be massive, with 100s of models at full points size. Look at any game of the same scale, you don't want lots of special rules, it's a strategy game, like a napoleonics game, for example black powder. Limited special rules, not needed to make you feel special, but a robust core game that requires a tactical and strategic thought process. aeronautica was not a seller, sorry not sorry but it wasn't. Be butt hurt about it but don't crap on a game with a very prestigious history. So just to also comment on your point play 30k over legion because legion is too expensive? Have you seen the price of 30k? What nonsense. If you're going to put opinions online at least try and research for 5 minutes prior for christ sake, or even better have played the game and not pollute the Internet with such classics as, "the rule book doesn't have pretty pictures its boring" drivel. Peace.

They should have went for 15 mm😊