It's a cold line, right? I'm glad you liked it

I know right?! I was like damn, that's so true!

Well said, brought tears to my eyes.

And the ensuing Ice Blast as well

That went right through the middle of my heart

Yeah, Force Staff, Glimmer Cape, AND Upgraded Boots at 25 minutes? Oldschool players couldn't even imagine how spoiled supports are now

@@Acex2ron Lmao. Flashbacks of the times when supports were running with brown boots, stick and consumables at 25 mins.

I remember when it wasn't uncommon for heroes like Shadow Demon, Crystal Maiden, Rhasta etc. to have just Brown Boots and Force Staff at 60 minutes. Support is definitely in a much better spot now than it was even 5 years ago.

5 years ago was 2019 sir not 2005 ​@@MrBorderlands123

I love playing support, giga impact with save items, or you say fuck it and get some giga scaling items like sheepstick.

Gets Pentakill "Did I ｓｕｐｐｏｒｔ right?"

The 0/2 Draven with 200+ Adoration Stacks: >:(

Average Brand "Support" for some reason: 15/30/2

And adc with 14 assits whuch in terms of gold like 21 cuz,you get 150 for assist adn 300 for *your* cut,but still complain cuz you got 450 gold and not 300 how you wanted!

Average witch doctor: *death ward+ glimmer cape= rampage*

Average Skywrath mage experience:

treant protector with his 100dmage in level 1 lmao

@@Gabe-sp8ml Skywrath Mage be like Strength: I deal too much damage >:D Weakness: I deal too much damage and now they have blademail >.>

@@Gabe-sp8ml Enchantress with 4k gold outhitting the ally carry with 20k NW

I love tree and his free wards since dota 1 but lately I just suck at laning with him like I can't deny, I can't trade properly, and I feel my only use is using my passive to easy pull creeps or block spawn@@unknownsource1485

its like, an oracle pick will ruin the entire laning phase for a dark seer offlane. you can never have an ion shell going for more than 5 seconds if there's an oracle

I remember I played snapfire into witch doctor. Picked up the 175 heal talent at lvl 10 and later it saved my Invoker from dying to maledict.

Like leona and Assassins or Nami and Assassins or Malphite into ad assassins

Bane and ShadowDemon with their bkb piercing ults make me sick to my stomach.

Oh the half pull was intentional, but it's just ironic that I'm also talking about how ranged heroes don't need to talk chip damage when pulling while I'm taking damage as a ranged hero

Honestly, taking a 100 dmg to fix your carrys lane is well worth it, especially since you still had regen.

Hey this comment means a lot. Thank you for the support!

@@Acex2ron I have to ask, though, how do you have the time to play both Dota and League?

@@Dan-pv1sg I grew up playing these games, and right now I'm treating content creation as a full time thing just to see if I can make it. Long way to go, but the results are looking good for a channel that's only two months old!

@@Acex2ron fascinating. I wish you all the luck, truly. These lane comparison videos have been massively entertaining so far. Can't wait for Jungle

Oh yea, the half pull was intentional, but taking unnecessary damage from neutrals, especially when I'm talking about "ranged heroes don't get chip damage from pulling" is just ironic

when u get pos 5 riki with shadow blade

I feel like that's the origin story of all support mains. Either that, or you're a girl.

I play support for 2 reasons 1. Cause I like playing them 2. Cause no one else wants to play them and if I don't we will have a game with 0 supports

@@MetronaJ You just listed the exact reasons why i play pos 5 man xd, seems like all supports share the same mindset

I once got asked my the Midlaner in LoL to switch with him. As I suspected, that guy had no idea how to ward.

tbh i feel you. i was a top/pos3 main then i went to support and got good. now i suck and play top/pos 3 again...

This is a very insightful comment, thanks for taking the time to write this out! This really shows how itemization in Dota just requires a lot more thinking to really get the most out of your gold, especially compared to League where the items are more or less the same every game depending on your champ, with very minor variations based on enemy lineup. I can't go into this level of detail into these videos because a lot of info would be lost on the League players who watch them and don't understand much Dota themselves, and the fact that I'm not at this level of play nor do I aspire to be. But as an immortal pos 5, what do you feel is the most important that a support should have, if not discipline?

@@Acex2ron Of course! I look forward to the pos 4 video since I also play that role. For me, the most important skill as a Pos 5 is being able to quickly analyze the gamestate, and intuitively understand where the enemies want to be playing and where your team needs to be playing. I think this is most clear with some examples: - If the enemy has a strong late-game carry like Anti-Mage, Phantom Assassin, and they disappear off the map for 5 minutes, you need to get your team to apply pressure. This means sneaking into the enemy jungle to plant deep wards, and then grouping with your team to smoke gank-then using that momentum to take towers, place more deep wards, and take away the enemy's farming space. On the other hand, if your team has the stronger late-game, you need to stall for time and keep your carry farming. Place defensive wards around the river to spot their ganks, and defend objectives for as long as possible to stop your enemies from taking over the map. When they group up to take an objective, force them to TP back by split-pushing the other lanes or counter-gaking one of their cores that's now isolated. - If the enemy team has a hero that can take Roshan early like Ursa or Troll Warlord, you want to ward the area around the pit a few minutes before they can take it, so that your team can contest it. On the other hand, if your team is getting strong enough take Rosh, then you'll want to place more aggressive wards and smoke gank as they're hitting those timings-that way you can get a pickoff and force the enemy to forfeit Roshan or try to contest it 4v5. If the enemy team has multiple heroes dead, you should push lanes and take more map control instead of killing Roshan-then retreat back and take Roshan after the enemies respawn or use Glyph of Fortification. - If the enemies have big cooldown-based heroes like Faceless Void or Tidehunter, you can't let them use their ults in big teamfights. Make sure you know when they want to fight and be ready to eat a gank if it stops them from getting a good fight on your cores. In teamfights, you need to position passively and let your cores bait them into using these spells, then help them to safely disengage with your control/saves. On the other hand, if you know the enemy can't teamfight against you, you want to position more aggressively: push in their lanes, invade their farming areas, and stun/catch them out of position to force them into a losing fight. If you're on the team with the big cooldowns: save your smokes for when you want to fight, stall lanes when you don't want to fight, and make sure you enable your teamfight heroes with vision/saves to maximize the impact of their spells. As a support in Dota, you can entirely determine how your team plays the map with your use of wards and smokes. Even in lower ranks with bad communication, your teammates will intuitively want to play around your vision and they will want to gank if you run up to them and smoke them. Core players, especially at higher levels, need to spend every spare second of time farming items in order to not fall behind-that's on top of worrying about dodging ganks, knowing if they should TP into fights, itemization, and often playing the more technically demanding heroes (although there are some very technically difficult support heroes like Chen, Enchantress and Rubick). They simply don't have the spare brainpower to pay attention to these macro-level strategic concerns, which requires paying close attention to hero matchups, item timings, and who has shown where on the minimap. That's why, even at the pro level, the pos 5 is almost always responsible for being the In-Game Leader. It is a very fun position for me because-while the core players are fighting to get gold in order to grow in power-the support players are fighting a battle over information to gain power. Especially in immortal bracket, you know the other supports are coordinating objectives with their team, placing sneaky wards, making smoke attempts, watching you on the minimap, etc. You can't make your plays too obvious or else they will read your smokes and TP out, or they will deward your deep ward, or contest your objective. There's a whole psychological aspect to it that makes "outplaying" another support player feel more like winning a poker hand rather than executing some 500 APM fighting-game combo.

@@jackmccarthy7644 What's your take on meta for support recently? TBH after they expand the map, I believe it's harder to end a game within 30min because carry get more space to farm. I feel like some early to mid game support like CM & warlock is no longer relevant (at least in solo queue pub). Now, I usually pick support that can scale into late game like agha ww, agha willow, right click np, agha grim etc.

​@@baldystick3327 I exclusively play solo queue pub and I think early-game supports are very strong. The most popular supports in high MMR pubs right now are Bane, Disruptor, Veno, CM, Io, Ench-all of which have strong early/mid game presence. At the end of the day, every game of Dota becomes much easier if you win the laning stage and that is the job of the supports. Early gold lead advantage helps you take over the map, get kills, and get a bigger gold lead. There are a lot of heroes like Timber, Viper, Tiny, Clinkz that RELY on getting that early advantage and become borderline useless if forced to play from behind-not to mention the psychological advantage in pubs of players flaming and giving up when they fall behind early. To be honest, I would never play Aghs WW, Right-Click NP or Aghs Grim and consider that to be borderline griefing your team. Aghs Willow is only playable from pos 4 and it is still very sketchy-you should plan on building normal support items 90% of your games and only build Aghs when you know the game will go long and your team needs the damage. I know it may feel like playing a greedy build is the only way to have an impact in the late game... but as a support that it is kinda your job to sacrifice your late-game scaling to make early game plays. Sure, 1 out of every 10 games it will feel great because you will be at 40 minutes doing just as much damage as the carry-but in the other 9/10 games you will lose because you did not have enough early game power to stop the enemy team from taking over the map.

Ah lol I yesterday asked for your insights in the pos 4 video to stumble upon this take. Thanks for sharing the tips and insights 😊

This is true for really bad enchanters, but you've gotta check out Pyke

the lol dupport still had more impact than the adc

​@@abogmus8904 lmao

This is true af. Idk about the league part but witch doctor, lich, sand king, earthshaker. Man they're scary af.

@@abogmus8904 true adc never gonna be real carry ever when you have top 3 0 or mid with 15 0 score. idk why league balancing to make every hero can be carry causing adc to have no play in League.

It did improve immensely, now it's good if everybody on the team gets some networth and it's much easier to do so for supports now as there is always something to do (and sometimes free farm unattended), hard to say if it will run better than league though because i always thought league looks more bland and simple visually but also runs better for lower end pc because of that.

Support role in Dota is probably currently more valuable and interesting than it is in LoL.

Supporting in Dota is much better than it was before, but League still has actual "carry" supports where you have a lot more agency. Senna, Pyke, and Lux can still completely take over games whereas the same can't be said for Dota, at least not in the Pos 5 position (and when they're actually building like a Pos 5)

​@@Acex2ron hey ace, how about making a poll for your viewers, asking who actually plays (used to play) League more than dota, or dota more than league, or maybe even both at the same time. Im very curious about what's the ratio of your viewers, what do you think about it?

@@KitsuneFaroe as a support player in both games, League is where i go to chill and Dota2 is when i try to be sweaty.

Me a Shaco ap support making my enemy lane guess and other lanes nightmare

I agree, but for the sake of my sanity, these videos only really cover the conventional heroes. If we were to take into account every off meta pick in both games, I would spend way too much time talking about why they work

i mean yeah but they are really uncommon. league also has extreme variety in possible supports. i mean ashe (alibaba drow) and miss fortune (no counterpart) are both hard carries that have become pretty viable supports. generally I'd say dota system just gives more ability to try out different builds. one of my faves to this day is doom doom. just play like a dum dum (hehe) press every button you own and walk away.

@@RuneKillerz109 true. League has some interesting stuff as well, with marksmen supps and stuff like that. I'm pretty sure Sset was a viable support pick on release. But maybe it's because his stats were unbalanced or something like that. In dota, me and my friends also like experimenting a lot with support role. My friend recently started picking luna pos 5 rushing phylactery and I think he literally won every game. My guy just buffs my damage and spams lucent beams. Although I must admit it felt that enemies were rather weak. I think it has to do something with ranked system update or maybe they just weren't ready for such big brain strats XD

@@savekla dunno what rank you're at but at mid/low elo peeps have no idea how to punish stuff like that but tbh i gotta try phyl stuff in general, the item just completely flew over my head. Also sett is still a viable support it's just that most other tanks do his job waaaaaay better for way less gold ^^

@@RuneKillerz109 my Luna friend is Divine I. And I'm Ancient IV or so. He even had decent games as PA pos5 with phylactery. He rebuilt into regular carry build in late, after the 40 min. So yeah, plenty of people losing to dumb shit even in higher ranks.

Bro said sd, oracle and warlock paired with jugg struggle for kills 💀.

Because you get to play champs that are like a combo of earth spirit and bounty hunter (Pyke), sniper (and go an autoattack build, which is senna), or Zeus and buy mage items (brand, velkoz, zyra). Zeus may not even be the best example, it’s more like veno. Its a champ that is really easy to kill, but if you do kill it, generally it means it got off a bunch of key spells that end up doing a fuckton of damage, and you killed their support. You also tend to be like 2 levels behind rather than like 8 lol

well the same way a pos3/4 can carry. making space. but if you mean literally, theres a fuck ton of damage supports and generally the damage in league is really high. pair that with abilities scaling with stats and you can sometimes just one shot enemies. sometimes even tank supports can atleast chunk someone decently while chain ccing them for 3 secs.

@RuneKillerz109 tahm kench moving at you ever so a slowly with full charge 800 stack heartsteal

So like support in LoL? I don't know where the misconception of supports being easy came from but support has more jobs to do than any roles in both games unless your yumi the you can afk and your still winning

tranquil boot? damn you're rich

supports in league: ward , deward , heal/shield carry , poke/harass the enemy , occasionally roam to other lanes supports in dota: ward , deward , stack neutrals , pull camps , block camps , help with power and wisdom runes , tp to other lanes with scroll or gate , buy smoke,dust,gem , buy regen for carry , help with securing lotus , buy defensive items for your team

​​@@whitedarkness97 buying defensive items/offensive buff items for your team and helping with objectives and invades are also things a good Support in LoL should be doing. Oh and full lockdown/engage for some champions as well, those guys basically dictate how the laning Phase is played on bot.

Typically jungle players are the most vocal, since they have the most impact on the map, and are needed for most plays on the map. Drafting in league is a lot more "simple" i guess, and is almost always done by the the coach of the team with less focus on players drafting.

In Dota as I've heard at top level it's usually supports at the start because they don't need to hyper focus on micro and farm optimisation, but can focus on macro movements. In the end game though when the carry gets farmed enough to carry often he gets to shotcall whenever he feels like having a good timing/opportunity and playing around the biggest team powerspikes is crucial.

​@@kjyuu mean the draft order? Ofc first someone picks the supports, so the last pick is for the midlaner or the adc/ hard carry. You don't want to be outdrafted

@@kocheng1672 oh. In that case, the cores still do the shoutcalls. Usually, the midlaner calls for smoke ganks. Sometimes is the offlaner who calls for objetives.

@@shaodk5059 In Dota, this isn't the case all the time. You don't want to first pick your supports immediately all the time since counter picking is more prevalent in Dota. Certain support heroes can counter even the enemy ADC/Hard carry the whole game even if the enemy is super farmed and some hero combos are very good, so you want to pick them both in the same phase of the draft.

1:47 this was addressed

3:05 mana pots were also present in old league, that gameplay was not healthy for the game as the emphasis for league is that you get punished for missing a skillshot

Hold on dota's got dedicated healers too! We have... Abaddon! Wait hold on this guy has an attack steroids... and he's immortal for 5s... Uh witch doctor then. Oh wait he has fricking DEATH ward. Omniknight? Bro's job is straight up to 2 tap supports. Chen? He's got global heal right? Nah he and his army is coming for your barracks. Dazzle? Tinker 2.0 Oracle! There we go, a hero with nothing but buffs anc heals, surely he's an enchanter! Hey wait why is he 9/0 at 15 mins? Dude people talk so much about lol being a game for people with main character syndrome. And dota is the team game or whatever. Yet every single 'dota support' are given tools to just fucking kill you lol. And that's not taking items into account

#MakeSupportsBrokeAgain Its disgusting that supports are barely gold behind to jgler nowadays.

It actually depends on what sup you play in league, if you play braindead ones like nautilus, zyra, soraka, lux, morgana and brand, sure, free ticket to masters, but if you actually like to play interesting ones, then good luck, because people are not too found of playing along your calls/strat/requirements, for example, i often get people saying that milio and renata glasc are bad suports despite them not even knowing how their main abilities works(renata's W/R and milio's W/R), the main diference in dota and lol, are that everything in dota is balanced simply because everything is too broken, meanwhile, in lol, while riot tries to balance things too much, they end up making half of the champions broken and the other half useless/a worse version of the better champions, for example, riot tried to give diversity to Rell by making her viable in jungle, then, high elo started abusing her and treating her like a perma ganking jg, instead of riot adjusting Rell's number so she would spent less time ganking and more time farming(like nerfing dmg numbers to camps and buffing late game powerspikes like armor, CD and HP so she could be unmatched in teamfights like amumu is currently like)they opted to REMOVE HER VIABILITY IN JUNGLE COMPLETELY, why? You ask? Because: "it has a niche pick who only saw play by a few otps and it was being abused by them."

supports in league: ward , deward , heal/shield carry , poke/harass the enemy , occasionally roam to other lanes supports in dota: ward , deward , stack neutrals , pull camps , block camps , help with power and wisdom runes , tp to other lanes with scroll or gate , buy smoke,dust,gem , buy regen for carry , help with securing lotus , buy defensive items for your team

even when im 1/10 as pos 5 i get mvp at the end of the game cuz i spent 3k gold on wards/smoke