D-did you just say that intrinsic and extrinsic motivation are jargon??
@Aa-dn1oq3 жыл бұрын
I sure do love watching two youtubers go on essay long analyses dissecting a game I've never played.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Accurate.
@eugenesis81883 жыл бұрын
This. It's hilarious to me that I enjoyed both of their videos more than I've enjoyed any Shenmu game. SEW's videos are better, though. Dude makes wrasslin sound like high art. Gimme that "pretentious sophistry" any day. He's convinced me that shows I've never watched are some of the greatest ever made.
@tricksalot23 жыл бұрын
@@eugenesis8188 why didnt you?
@edmaster932 жыл бұрын
@@eugenesis8188 i enjoyed both but as a shenmue fan it was heavy cringed and hard to watch the SEW all the wrong points and making fun of minor flaws as a huge threat was hard to swallow as a fan. This video in other hand soft the cringe cause Virtuabros basically did the video with the same answers i have with the other influencer. Is a pain that just cause he does a great job editing, doesn't mean he is 100% right, he did a shitty job exposing he's clueless POV of shenmue assuming them as a right fact. Is a pain in the A that tons of fans or possible people to try ahenmue decided to not do so like this guy in the top comment to at least try the game cause it need support. Of course is hard to get new players now cause they won't see like us back in the 90 the beauty in ahenmue world and engine, a high detailed sandbox of a game now having underage kids playing gta5 where don't know shit about the hard work behind a game.
@Mitsuraga10 ай бұрын
I've only ever played the first Shenmue, and although I like it and also respect what it did for the medium as a whole, I didn't *love* it. I never got all that invested in the characters and stuff - at least, not enough to buy/play the sequels.
@drworm50153 жыл бұрын
He was disappointed in the final product, and his video was an accurate summation of how a lot of people felt about the game. To call him a shill, selfish and irresponsible , and that "he's doing his fans thinking for them" seems like an unfair conclusion to draw from his Shenmue video. It just seems like a reach that I as an audience member have trouble buying. It seems like you are trying to misrepresent Eyepatch Wolf's character (or at least his intentions) based on one video that misrepresented your favorite game, and that, to me, seems a little irresponsible. His channel is a very positive place, he was a fan with a video full of valid criticisms that he is entitled to. However, you are clearly very passionate about the game and want to make sure it is represented the way you see it, and your amendments to some of his critiques provide context to the casual viewer. I really liked the parts of your video where you talked facts about the game, and I hope it gets more views.
@bananamerchant63873 жыл бұрын
Being entitled to an opinion doesn't shield you from counterarguments. Sorry, no one cares about your feelings.
@drworm50153 жыл бұрын
@@bananamerchant6387 Obviously being entitled to an opinion doesn’t shield you from counter arguments lmao. I just made a counter argument based on the opinion this guy was entitled too, based on his perception of eyepatch wolf, contrasted with mine. I thought Virtua’s video had some really valid points as well. Not really that big of a deal.
@billbosconovitch7523 жыл бұрын
youre incorrect, virtua bros is right!!!
@MerlinTheCommenter3 жыл бұрын
@@drworm5015 You make a claim that VB seems to misrepresent SEW's character and intentions without actual backing up that claim. Seems a little irresponsible to me. Your counter argument leans a more emotional sphere. Had it been more logical (like providing a quote and how you came to your own conclusion) instead of an emotional plea this would have gone a long way. I'm certainly open to it since VB could come off that way to some.
@drworm50153 жыл бұрын
@@MerlinTheCommenter sorry, I never meant to come off that way. “Using negativity to cheaply generate interest” is a phrase he uses to describe eyepatch wolfs video productions, and then provides a single other example (final fantasy 15 video) having a negative title, alongside shenmue. Two videos is not even enough to establish any sort of legitimate pattern. SEW has dozens of positively titled videos on his channel, and so when you take into account his entire body of work, the argument that this entire video is formatted on, (“the title of this video being a transparent attempt at getting attention”, when referencing this video) virtua bros constructs an argument that poses eyepatch wolf as irresponsible and embellishing negativity for attention, when in fact, by Virtua Bro’s own admission, he found himself agreeing with a lot of the criticisms in SEW’s video. But then, he brings up, well actually, he doesn’t understand it it’s all a reference to virtua fighter, and you can skip the cutscene (which you couldn’t at the time SEW was recording footage for his video), and that he should appreciate that it’s a game for the fans of the originals. These sorts of criticisms don’t actually invalidate any of SEW’s criticisms, in fact, it all comes off more like Virtua Bro’s (who is clearly the bigger shenmue fan) is arguing that no true shenmue fan would make these criticisms at all, because they would understand the series the way he does and not do a “hatchet job” on it. This is called the no true Scotsman logical fallacy. The problem is, not everyone is a fan in the same way, not everyone thinks that Ryo landing a hit on Lan Di at the climax would be preposterous, and some fans may think it may even be narratively fitting. Some fans may not like virtua fighter games or lore but really like shenmue, so they shouldn’t have to be die hard fans to appreciate why or why not a character from an entirely seperate series would or wouldn’t do something. And finally, criticizing him for “making fun of shenmue being shenmue” for playing jankily, is a feeble criticism, because it demands that in order to be a true fan, you must accept how janky it is, and you’re not allowed to be disappointed if it doesn’t change the way it is played to be more accessible to modern gaming standards. You can be a shenmue fan and still criticize these things. And he ends off the video by saying that eyepatch wolf is shilling and being irresponsible. He takes great pains at the beginning of the video to ensure he doesn’t make it personal, and to reiterate that SEW is entitled to his own opinion, but reads very deeply into eyepatch wolf’s personal motives for not liking shenmue 3. My original comment was meant to illustrate that he effectively did what he claimed eyepatch wolf was doing to shenmue 3 to eyepatch wolf, and it didn’t actually enrich his own critique of SEW’s video, because as I stated above, when VB talks about little Easter eggs and stuff, it shows how much this game holds for the fans. It doesn’t detract from the ways this game is a disappointment, it merely adds context to the casual viewer, a non-fan. And also, I appealed mainly to emotion in the first comment because I really didn’t think that coming out guns blazing with a long, condemning comment about how this is so logically off base, would go over particularly well, with other VB fans, or with VB himself. I wanted to just say that hey, this isn’t actually a fair criticism of a creator as a whole, but a fair criticism of a criticism. The problem with this video isn’t that it gives context, or disagrees with eyepatch wolf, it’s that it gatekeeps the act of criticism itself unless it is within a very narrow set of parameters, and assumes ill intent otherwise. I did like this video, a lot, because I liked how much VB illustrates this game can bring to its fans, because ultimately it is a game for the fans, and spreading positivity about a game that tries so hard to do right by its fans is totally admirable, especially after all this time. I guess you could say I liked it as a counter-point to SEW’s criticism, but I didn’t like it as a criticism of SEW.
@TheSquidJackson3 жыл бұрын
I really tried to be open minded but you totally lost me when you said “intrinsic” is a jargon word.
@chocobros13 жыл бұрын
Same, I could have looked past that personally, but my dude also put the word "sophistry" in the title of his own video, like bruh.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
How about verisimilitude?! Are there no limits to the denial SEW fans will impose upon themselve in order to defend their favorite E personality?
@chocobros13 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros saying that people are in denial because they refuse to outright dismiss a creator because they use words you personally don't understand is a horrible defence and makes you come off as the desperate one, not us. I mean I don't even speak English as a first language and even I knew what intrinsic and verisimilitude meant by like the seventh grade. And afaik the other guy at least uses those words correctly, something you cannot in good faith claim to do.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@chocobros1 uh huh. Sure you did. Ok yeah IM the ahole for pointing out that that he clearly uses jargon as a ploy to make himself superficially impressive to his viewers. Sure... Look, dont be mad at me because you fell for it. Instead of hating on me for critiquing your favorite KZfaq creator, open your mind enough to realize that he really is using his platform to spread a lot of misinformation about this particular game. That's not okay and is a little more important than your wounded egos.
@chocobros13 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros look into the mirror. You're calling epw "my favorite creator" when I'm not even subbed to him. And unlike you when accusing him I know you're deliberately trying to use that incorrect assertion as an attack on me because you've repeatedly turned away chances at dialog for just insulting me. Take a look at other people who have criticized epw like Craftsdwarf or even Ocean Pacifist who did so over this same topic. Notice how much smaller their dislike bar is, or how their comment sections aren't filled with them fighting with viewers who point out issues with the video? That's not because there's a mob of his fanboys that want to come after you and only you when you criticize him. It's because they were able to articulate problems with his videos without diluting their legitimate gripes with him by way of assumptions of malice where there is no proof of any, personal attacks and completely unimportant things like him using big words. And again, if you're going to do that, you shouldn't then turn around and put a similar word in the title of the video you're using to criticize that. While I'm sure that you were besieged by a nunber of eyepatch stans and that that sucked, there are reasons why your critique of epw elicits such a clear unfavourable reaction in comparison to others who did it before and did it better. I would really like to see both you and epw own up to your faults and improve, not devolve into personal attacks and insults.
@DeadBoneJones3 жыл бұрын
OK, you don't get to put "pretentious sophistry" in a video title and then try to accuse others of using "jargon."
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
😃 why not?
@xthe_nojx58203 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Because it's something a pretentious sophist would do.
@user-ew2sd7vl5m3 жыл бұрын
@@xthe_nojx5820 lmao, just by reading this guys replies to some comments, he sounds like your average ‘superior redditor’
@ph43draaa3 жыл бұрын
read a book dude
@tramarthomas61053 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros i didn't like you before, now i like you even less
@goose61123 жыл бұрын
Shemune peaked when that guy said years ago I was Chinese
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Lmao 🤣 you aren't wrong
@nearlymint60092 жыл бұрын
After seeing this video and how he keeps responding to every negative comment. Safe to say this man does not take criticism well.
@VirtuaBros2 жыл бұрын
Yeah a couple years ago I used to try to respond to every comment. Definitely let the negative ones get to me back then. I've grown as a person since then. Thanks for watching.
@austinrusk91953 жыл бұрын
“Homage” and “retread” are not interchangeable
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Neither are "fan service" and "retread". Shenmue 3 was made primarily for fans of Shenmue. It isn't anymore a retread than Shenmue 2 was. How many of the games have you played?
@TheIPGCorporations3 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Likely none. He's white knighting his youtube hero.
@reed16454 жыл бұрын
This video is so remarkably petty. I understand you dislike his video but you go beyond that and try to discredit him as a creator. You basically suggest he's using fancy vocabulary so the normals get confused and agree with him. I would be much more understanding if you were targeting this one video but you're not... you're so bothered by the video that you try to discredit him entirely. You even misrepresent his points at times. He never stated an intrinsic reward system is better than an extrinsic one and that vocabulary isn't even that advanced. He simply stated that the intrinsic reward of progressing as a fighter has been exchanged for an extrinsic one as leveling up is now a key part of winning fights. I agree, leveling up with mini games isn't particularly enjoyable. I don't entirely agree with all of his points. I'm currently playing shenmue 3 for the first time and I reached niaowu yesterday. So far i'm enjoying it. It might actually be my favorite in the series but it's undeniably a flawed game in a lot of ways. He's right that the fighting system is undeniably worse and the in game tutorial does highlight how it's been designed so that button mashing is fine. His choice to gamble for the money needed is extremely understandable. I just wanted to keep it simple and find a job but almost every single npc recommended fortune telling and gambling. The game heavily heavily pushes you towards that option. A couple of people mentioned collecting herbs. Literally noone suggested selling capsule toys or fishing. There's also an in game tutorial note explaining the ridiculous system of buying tokens, winning prizes and pawning the prizes for money. I think it's also important to note that earning money in the first two games was time consuming and grindy. It's not something people seem to get nostalgic over. It's not fun in shenmue 3 either so... seems like a fair complaint. I've watched many of super eyepatch wolf's videos and I enjoy the let's fight a boss podcast. I've heard him express disappointment in many games, many which I've enjoyed and I've also heard him praise a lot of games which I don't care for. The guy likes the games he likes and dislikes the games he doesn't. Shenmue 3 is divisive. I've heard the disappointment in his voice when he's spoken about it. I have no doubt it's genuine and also... i'm afraid to say the animation for the body check and counter body check are pretty much identical... I get what you're saying about them being different moves but when they're both highlighted so clearly as key parts of Ryo's journey... I've no doubt they could have chosen a better move. I hope we one day see a shenmue 4. It seems unlikely but fingers crossed. More than that though I hope you learn some civility. Trying to discredit people for having different opinions is weak... extremely weak.
@redorakle33683 жыл бұрын
Dude, you lost me at the start, simply because you spend too much time discussing SEW instead of going straight to the point. I didnt leave a dislike, though.
@anafu-sankanashi89333 жыл бұрын
I think SEW is allowed to be pissed off because since he was a long time fan of the series he was disappointed that it didn't try to improve itself. He also(I think) once stated that a sequel or reboot can be similar to the original but have to add something good to the table to stand out. To say only diehard shenmue fans wanted a sequel thus it must be just like it's predecessors kinda undermines what a fandom wants and the concept of a sequel in general. Overall, I don't want to get into a comment war with someone if they disagree, so I'll leave it at that.
@EduardoFlores-bt4fo3 жыл бұрын
I will dislike it for you my bro.
@maxanderson37332 жыл бұрын
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 agreed. Having callbacks is fine but a sequel needs to have newer elements in order to stand on his own 2 feet. Instead of standing on the shoulders of previous games in order to seem bigger than it actually is. That’s why EW has the right to feel pissed about a game he waited SO long for didn’t turn out great
@pinknecro Жыл бұрын
I did, dudes just petty because his favorite series is not as great as people once thought and took his fristration out on SEW claiming he was intentionally misleading viewers
@jennymiller31903 жыл бұрын
At the beginning of the video you said that you wouldn't be a blind fanboy, but you focused on things like "you see, it zooms in on his shoes", "this is a callback to a previous installment!" and "the game inconveniences you in order to make you explore its world", in order to refute his point that a lot of things are INCONVENIENT and bog down play time. You said yourself that these are purposefully inconvenient in order to counter his critique that these things are inconvenient. And his critique about the combat system isn't misleading at all. Leaving out that "oh, time slows down when the bar is yellow" or "when you hit this person with this move, there's some weight to it" doesn't make it misleading when you even AGREE with SEW himself that the combat system is worse than the previous shenmues, which was his main point. He probably didn't feel the need to mention those because, in the end, those don't make the combat system good, which you admitted the moment you said that the combat system was worse than the previous installments. So intrinsic and extrinsic is jargon, but pedantic, git, and dilettante aren't? Ok. And you say that he sounds pretentious but this whole video sounds like a college essay that you're gonna turn in as a final. "I'm going to be taking eyepatch wolf to task (really? To task) in this [essay] by exposing how he DISINGENUOUSLY TRIES TO LEND CREDIBILITY (oh yeah big brain time) to his opinions by couching them in a PSEUDO-ACADEMICALLY (really dude) styled presentation" all in all A+ thesis man, all that's missing is your self-awareness. He writes his videos like essays, so do you. You guys even have the same sounding/feeling background music. Bro you even use sad/melancholic music at the end to bring home a point just like SEW, and end with a thought provoking ending statement, like SEW.
@jf28013 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say he was thought provoking and SEW is definitely better at this format. But, most of what you said checks out. Granted, think you gave this guy wayyyy too much credit. Have you seen his arguments in the comments? Lmao it's kinda sad a grown man is trying to fight with others who offer valid points on his video being unnecessarily directed at a single creator and of being pretentious, itself. It devolved rather quickly into a grade school name calling kinda deal.
@kazzykun52353 жыл бұрын
Holy shit I think I've seen a murder!
@SparkThaMetal Жыл бұрын
@@jf2801 He is exactly the type of guy that made people leave the ''shenmue community'' . I used to go to shenmue dojo and other forums but there were so many diehard fans that were blind to any critisicsm and couldnt handle different opinions. They are such fanboys that they will make topics like 'increasing shenmues metacritic score' then everyone will go and review bomb shenmue on that site with high scores. Or things like votes for greatest ever sega game, they make topics about it in order to try and swing the votes. They dont care about how many people dislike the game, as long as that is buried. So they'll actively go and troll anyone who makes a video they dont agree with about shenmue. They are the definition of basement dwellers .
@JamietheEmperor6 ай бұрын
eyepatchwolf fanboy
@LongsunZhao5152 ай бұрын
@@jf2801it's like you didn't even watch this video or you're choosing to ignore information just to prove your point.
@Logan556893 жыл бұрын
“The game is retro-styled! It’s meant to be this way!” Yeah that’s cool, I want to play the game though. “It’s an homage to the old games!” Okay, but again I just want to play my videogame. “Look at the detail on his shoes! You can skip the cutscene, nevermind the fact that you have to do it due to poor controls!” OkAy, I waNT tO Play the VIDyaGaEm! “He’s not running through the shrine because it would be disrespectful! Ugh! So pretentious!” I JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN WITH THE GAME MAN. I GET IT, BUT IT’S NOT ENTERTAINING. Add to that the fact that you didn’t really point out any of the flaws that Eyepatch Wolf did mention. Just because you don’t like the fact that he made an argument using big words that hurt your brain, doesn’t mean that he’s wrong. And you don’t seem to get either that the Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic argument isn’t about which he prefers, it’s about which ties in better to gameplay and story. If he doesn’t bring up every single piece of minutae, it doesn’t mean he’s deceiving you - it means he didn’t likely find it relevant; which it doesn’t seem to actually be.
@whalesharkgang62813 жыл бұрын
This game was only possible because diehard Shenmue fans kickstarted, to complain about the fanservice and extra details of the game put in there for these fans specifically by basically saying "okay, but I'm not having fun" is well, a shit take. Also like it was said in the video, SEW could have just pressed the skip button
@anafu-sankanashi89333 жыл бұрын
@@whalesharkgang6281 still no answer for the controls.
@anafu-sankanashi89333 жыл бұрын
@@whalesharkgang6281 also, you favor diehard fans thus leaving no room for new ones to enter, how do you expect a sequel if the audience for it is miniscule? Since shenmue 3 seems to ONLY favor old fans, no one who isnt arent inclined to play it now do they?
@whalesharkgang62813 жыл бұрын
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 Shenmue 3 got funded by fans, call me crazy, but that's probably how Shenmue 4 will get made, if it ever does.
@anafu-sankanashi89333 жыл бұрын
@@whalesharkgang6281 I think its safe to say that's Exactly how it will get made.
@chaoskiwi22573 жыл бұрын
Man looking at all the comments of comments everyone seams to have a reasonable point of view but he just keeps denying everyone and personally attacking them for no reason
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Denying everyone and personally attacking them? I don't think that's accurate. Could you give me a specific example?
@chaoskiwi22573 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros sure here are some examples for reference a statement surrounded by these brackets means an attack and to represent denial [ ] "" essential calling people ignorant and sheep "[uh huh. Sure you did. Ok yeah IM the ahole for pointing out that that he clearly uses jargon as a ploy to make himself superficially impressive to his viewers. Sure... Look, dont be mad at me because you fell for it. Instead of hating on me for critiquing your favorite KZfaq creator, open your mind enough to realize that he really is using his platform to spread a lot of misinformation about this particular game.
@nickb64253 жыл бұрын
@@chaoskiwi2257 that boy is silent now lmao 😂
@reloadpsi3 жыл бұрын
@@chaoskiwi2257 KO! Perfect! Destroyed! Fatality! Dramatic Finish! Supreme Victory! I'm also amazed he hasn't deleted your comment yet.
@TheIrishNational3 жыл бұрын
@@chaoskiwi2257 You spent way too much time on this comment section, at least VB is responding to the criticism and he’s not even being that unreasonable
@DashZeonhart3 жыл бұрын
Kind of a self defeating argument. You talk about there still being quality in the fighting which is an opinion and because you view there being some fun to be had in the combat, you call SEWs opinion wrong which is just... silly. Even further, you gloss over SEWs actual criticism of the combat system which was that it was watered down to cater to a wider audience and meant to be more accessible to new fans of the franchise - something the developer has admitted to - which picks apart your argument that the game is intended as a throwback to diehard fans.
@edeasdrew20503 жыл бұрын
BROTHER
@edeasdrew20503 жыл бұрын
@Shin Shaman But they all posted months ago
@Sewblon3 жыл бұрын
@Shin Shaman Which lies?
@cagayakegirlz3 жыл бұрын
this is not a very good video. while you occasionally bring up some important information that SEW missed in his video, you dont address enough of his points against the game. You also consistently bring up absolutely meaningless points. SEW doesn't need to know the Virtua Fighter series to know Shenmue, that's ridiculous. There's also this completely gross idea you're trying to spread that SEW is trying to manipulate his audience to hate Shenmue when maybe he just. doesn't like this game?????
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
I beg to differ. You don't seem to understand the point of the video. As stated at the end, it's ok for SEPW to dislike Shenmue 3, but he claims that the game is so bad that it's time for him, Yu Suzuki, and all of us to move on from the Shenmue series. Just because he didn't like a game is no cause for calling people to allow a series to die that is just barely returning to life. Also, if one is going to rip on a game as hard as he does on Shenmue 3 one better have their facts straight. One had better understand what the game is, is trying to do, and where it comes from. He doesn't. My point wasn't that he or anyone ought to like Shenmue 3, my point was that he doesn't know enough about the game itself on its own terms, or in comparison to previous entries in the series, or where the series originally came from to have a fully informed opinion on Shenmue 3. In short, since his video is full of information and opinions that are uninformed, misleading, and factually untrue, people should not let him do their thinking for them when it comes to this game. People should play the game themselves and form their own opinions. That's the point of my video and I'll thank you not to hate on or ridicule me just for going against the opinion of a creator that is popular.
@KaitoGillscale3 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros nothing like the creator of a video responding to genuine criticism with “you just don’t understand”. That’s my favorite way to wave away criticism. That and “you’re just a fanboy”, which I’ve seen said in so many words as replies to this video.
@lorenzoamantini80743 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros oh god dude, what have you done 💔💔
@lorenzoamantini80743 жыл бұрын
@@KaitoGillscale Op's criticism isn't as valid as you make it. The creator responded in a very plain and simple way: you may dislike Shenmue 3, but not for most of Sew's reasons
@cloudstrife45343 жыл бұрын
Shin Shaman You can keep spamming this in the every comment thread, but it won't make you right. Maybe calm down with your vendetta before you too make a garbage video like VB.
@Rupert34343 жыл бұрын
Yeah, no. "But it's a callback" is not a defense for a poorly thought out or implemented mechanic. Saying that while these things felt fresh in earlier games, they now feel like "relics of outdated game design" is not a dishonest critique. You are cherry picking, overreaching, and apparently agree with Super's arguments...just not his tone? I don't get it. This video feels like the dishonest cash in by comparison. :/
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Lmao. How can I cash in when I'm not even monetized? Sounds like you didn't even watch the whole video since all you brought up are the call backs.
@shunakiyama62752 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros i watched the whole video, your wrong, you said shenmue 3's bad game design is okay beacause it's a callbak and that's nkt true, it's just bad game design
@mhh33 жыл бұрын
7:45 Interview with a dev "Certain areas of Niaowu have sections through which Ryo must pass at walking speed. Could you talk about how those came about?" "KG: This is a very common technique used in modern games to allow the system to load and unload new data as the player travels across the map without bringing up a loading screen. I think the way it was done in Niaowu is quite an elegant solution - Ryo is such a well-mannered person, he would never run where he isn’t allowed to!"
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Nice find! Thank you for sharing I very much enjoyed reading this tidbit.
@SparkThaMetal Жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros it makes zero sense though, only if this was a game being made on the dreamcast era. In the modern era you dont need that and the engine they used doesn't necessitate such loading areas.
@nashwaan2956 Жыл бұрын
@@SparkThaMetal if you wanna make an argument, then you should read and listen more. "Ryo is such a well-mannered person, he would never run where he isn't allowed to!" Which makes sense because of the more cultural aspects of the game.
@SparkThaMetal Жыл бұрын
@@nashwaan2956 thats such a bullshit argument, pull your tongue out suzukis arse. Its a loading area.
@PhoenixSplash10 ай бұрын
@nashwaan2956 also the main theme of Shenmue is patience. It's strange that most Shenmue fans don't realize that.
@sadpanda57 Жыл бұрын
He says Wolf was comparing apples to oranges after he himself literally compares Wolf's dreaded apples to oranges.
@VirtuaBros Жыл бұрын
Hehe ye
@casanovafunkenstein50904 жыл бұрын
This video is a bit of a mixed bag, especially where the two of you disagree with regards to the narrative. I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to engage with the story by framing it as the story of Ryo's growth to become similar to Akira, a character from a different series of games who happens to have been the intended protagonist during pre-production. While they are very similar in fighting style Ryo himself should be developing as a character beyond just learning martial arts moves. It's also a bit strange to assume that the moves will have the same efficacy as they do in a different franchise that contains more fantastical elements. While the localisation has always muddied things I read Ryo as a socially awkward and unassertive young man in the earlier games' cutsenes and having the scene where the body check connects and makes Lan Di stumble very slightly at the end would symbolically represent him growing more effectively than just having Lan Di leave him alive again. You'd still be able to show the more effective version of the move later and it would be even more clearly set up. I also think it's a bit suspect to say that Ryo's father has been training since being in China, therefore he must be far stronger than Ryo. He was also middle-aged when he died and had been beaten pretty handily before the move was used. Add to that that someone's potential at a given skill isn't exclusively tied to how long they've been practicing and I don't see how simply landing a single hit on someone who isn't treating you as credible opposition would shatter the established canon. Shenmue has quite a few eccentric characters and some implied supernatural stuff going on with the mirrors but as far as we know Lan Di is just a guy who's really good at Kung Fu and as such isn't infallible or unassailable. There are some valid criticisms in this video but I feel like in this respect you're being a bit precious about your interpretation of how the game should be, where character development is generated through mechanics but not explicitly through cut scenes and where you need to understand details from a different intellectual property in order to get full enjoyment out of it.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
While I respect your opinion, and even appreciate you taking the time to share it, I don't think I could disagree with you more. Just to clarify, it doesn't really matter if most people get that shenmue is telling a Virtua fighter story. At the end of the day, like it or not, that's just what Shenmue is doing. Also, I have to reiterate that hitting Lan Di with a move that Ryo is only a novice at makes absolutely no sense. To your point about Iwao being older, so what? If Shenmue has taught us anything it's that youth is no advantage against elderly martial arts masters. Kung Fu transcends age. How many old hobos has ryo lost a fight to by this game? At least 3...We will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for your comment anyway.
@canaricassius83234 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros But Shenmue isn't Virtua Fighter And the idea of Ryo getting a hit on Lan Di is based on Lan Di not taking Ryo seriously at all which allows Ryo to get a hit in. Even SEW says that its a futile attack. That shows that Ryo is growing as a person, and that the player has grown by playing. As it stands now, the entirety of Shenmue 3 could be skipped with barely losing anything, which makes the game feel pointless.
@shadowspear8993 жыл бұрын
@@canaricassius8323 your reasoning for Lan Di getting hit just sounds like plot induced stupidity if you ask me and how does that justify a banged up Ryo surviving an attack that not only killed his more skilled/experienced father (who by the way the way was in the exact same state as Ryo would be in that little fanfic) but also Ryo himself in the bad end of Shenmue 1
@canaricassius83233 жыл бұрын
@@shadowspear899 Um, I never argue that point about the killing blow? I only argued the part on Ryo getting a hit in, which I feel isn't that crazy an idea. Again it's based on the fact that Lan Di would be under estimating how much Ryo has grown. Tons of shows/media have done that and its not an ass pull, it's both a testament to Ryo's growth and Lan Di's confidence in his skill. Shenmue is a story so it needs to actually show Ryo growing, but its also a game. And having a game build up to a fight and for the result to tell the player that everything you've done over the past games is useless is disappointing and makes a person wonder why they should even continue playing if nothing matters. Edit: Also like I stated before, it wouldnt even be a solid hit, it would just be a "You didnt win" situation. Ryo would have still lost, but Lan Di would have to confront the fact that Ryo might actually become a threat in the future. It gives Lan Di some purpose in Shenmue 3 instead of just going "Hi Ryo, bye Ryo". As well it gives the player investment to actually want a sequel and continue playing. Look at Devil May Cry 3, the first fight Dante gets his ass beaten in which makes the player want to beat him, the second fight he's improved enough to go toe to toe with Vergil which lets the player feel like both Dante and them have grown, and the third fight Dante manages to win which completes the arc and let's the player know they've finally surpassed the mountain that stood in front of them and lets the player actually feel like they themselves have grown from this just as Dante did and allows the player and the main character to connect. I'm not saying Shenmue has to follow how they did it, but having a rematch against a foe and having the result be "Yeah you suck, nothing you learned or did mattered that much" just sucks.
@edmaster933 жыл бұрын
@@canaricassius8323 I have to share my pov while I fought Lan Di. I did not felt disspointed, I just saw the huge wall that Lan Di is ,(to me Lan Di is a damn strong as Goku a that point ) like all master said" you still have a long way to go before be a master", I can't say that Ryo was as strong as Iwao in shenmue 3, Iwao himself was a master already. Saying that give a Single hit to Lan Di is not a bad idea and to me the body check would be a nice QTE to do in that fight but with no good result at all for lack of experience in the story. The game might not avance 2 much in the story but clear some questions like, how strong is Lan Di, is unmeasurable yet.
@Holober977 ай бұрын
I never comment but thanks for making this video. I watched SEW's shenmue video forever ago (before playing for myself) but saw a tweet praising it again recently and saw your video mentioned in the replies. I've only been a fan of shenmue for a few years but they instantly became unforgettable games to me and my friend who watched me play the entire series. When we got to shenmue 3 I was like "here we go" expecting it to be bad from all the negativity I heard about the game when it released and the vague memory of the SEW video. But honestly besides a few things it was a true shenmue game, and just as special as 1 and 2 to me, it had the exact same energy. I feel like a lot of the criticism comes from people who don't really understand what makes shenmue shenmue. SEW did a video about the sonic fandom which was pretty rough too, negativity just attracts views. you definitely nailed that he'll talk very pretentiously and breathy but when you actually listen to what he's saying it's just off xD imo anyway
@VirtuaBros7 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing that. Glad you ended up playing shenmue 3 and having a good experience with it. I really enjoyed it too ☺️
@MomoWax10002 жыл бұрын
wow, i first thought this video was a reasonable rebuttal from a shenmu fan with a different perspective, albeit with a slightly toxic tinge of mischaracterizing SEW's intentions ... until i started reading the comments and OP's responses to them... It really sucks that youtube's removed the dislike bar :/
@VirtuaBros2 жыл бұрын
I wish the dislike bar was still intact too. Merry Christmas
@isamekailmahmud93022 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros you have 2.1 k dislikes. I have an extension to see what they really are
@hazetko7586 Жыл бұрын
@@isamekailmahmud9302 thanks for letting me know this existed
@jamesbrincefield9879 Жыл бұрын
@@isamekailmahmud9302 lol
@Treyman-yi7ei10 ай бұрын
@@hazetko7586 from what I understand it doesn't use real data though, it basically just estimates what it would be
@rko20166 ай бұрын
that's it, i'm buying 3 thanks to you, i believed all his bs, so thank you for being a good counterargument and showing how easily people can manipulate a viewpoint. i'm not sure if i like how yu suzuki believes he'll make at least 3 or 4 more games to tell this story and i personally would've liked if it just wrapped up, only for the fact that realistically, now, it won't ever. But at least i feel comfortable playing this game now.
@VirtuaBros6 ай бұрын
Right on! I'm glad you're giving it a try and forming your own opinion. I hope you have a good time with it but even if you don't I admire you for actually playing the game and giving it a chance.
@rko20166 ай бұрын
the gameplay you showed looked way more appealing than SEW did, it made it, especially the combat, look like an early access game with a lack of feedback, though the animation still seems sloppy at times it's a far cry from how people try to make it seem out to be.@@VirtuaBros edit: i also enjoyed how the games feel like a marial arts movie/journey by meeting masters and such, learning not only the arts but life lessons, so i'm hoping to find some of that in this game too.
@nyxian48323 жыл бұрын
If your combat is worse than the game you made 18 years ago something has gone wrong. If you have the chance to improve the voice acting and still don't something has gone wrong. Shenmue 3 is a bad game that didn't improve on anything from the older games, was downright worse in some areas, and by the end left me dissatisfied. But at least it wasn't mighty number 9 so it's got something going for it oh also here's the video in its entirety that SEW did kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fNZ-dK513Zqnp40.html since for some reason you didn't link it
@nyxian48323 жыл бұрын
@Shonen Sushi I mean it's literally the video he's talking about, providing a reference for people to form their own opinions is always a good idea.
@LucaxCorp3 жыл бұрын
@@nyxian4832 - I can’t see the comment. Was someone actually mad you gave a source to the video this guy is responding to?
@canaricassius83234 жыл бұрын
I get where you're coming from, but 100% disagree. Call backs are fine, but games have changed a lot since Shenmue 3 and purposely making a game feel slow and annoying for the sake of a Dreamcast era game. Sure Eyepatch Wolf was overdramatic, but thats most youtubers. And the reason why Eyepatch Wolfs ending would make sense is because Lan is under estimating him. And that he isn't treating him like an actual martial artist, but the fact that Ryo gets a hit in means that he has to acknowledge that Ryu is growing. Also I got to say if anything you come off this pretentious in your video. "Super Eyepatch Wolf doesn't know anything about shenmue and doesn't understand why it was made. But I perfectly do so I'll tell all you sheeple and show you what Shenmue really is."
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for commenting. You're allowed to disagree with me but everything you said about shenmue 3 was already refuted in the video. Also, please try not to straw man other people by putting words in others' mouths. I never claimed to be the ultimate authority on shenmue. I merely provided evidence to show that Eyepatch Wolf doesn't have the expertise people purport him to have. I'm just saying that the emperor has no clothes.
@canaricassius83234 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Fair enough, but my point remains that there is many people who have played the game and agreed with Eyepatch about the games dated design. I felt Eyepatch Wolf represented those issues well, so to claim that he made a misleading video feels misleading in of itself. Shenmue 3 can still be Shenmue, but that doesnt excuse many of its frustrating elements.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
@@canaricassius8323 I proved in the video that Eyepatch wolf mislead his audience, and even intentionally so at times. He didn't like the game, and many others share that sentiment. That's fine. But what's not fine is misrepresenting the game, especially on such a huge platform as the one he has.
@canaricassius83234 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros but he didn't misrepresent the issues he had with the game. He stated his issues and gave valid explanations for those issues. All it feels like your saying is "Well this might be bad, but...!" Also the personal attacks you make on him are just rude. Its fine disagree or prove him wrong, but as soon as you start acting spiteful the argument feels less professional.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
@@canaricassius8323 Herbs are enough to pay for wine and the expensive skill book. Flower bird wind moon is not required to make money. Body check and reverse body are not the same move. He *did* misrepresent the game and I made a video of the evidence. It's all there. You might not want to admit it but the evidence is clear.
@Rioraku3 жыл бұрын
Just because a lot of people don't like something doesn't mean it's actually a "good game" that's being unfairly treated. It just might not be a good game.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
*Might. *If. The only way to know for sure is to play it and think for yourself, not let someone who is popular tell you what is good or what you should like or pursue. Sounds a bit like you're saying that if a lot of people dislike a game that means it's most likely bad. That's a fallacy called an appeal to the majority. It's not a sound or valid argument. Besides, even if we accept that a game is bad, it still deserves to be treated fairly. It's entirely possible for a game to be bad and still be unduly hated and slandered. Reviewers with a large amount of influence need to do better than that. We as consumers need to do better than that, and we should expect more from the analysis of self appointed critics with large fan bases.
@ExtremelyBadPlayer3 жыл бұрын
This guys behaviour in the comments is a treat to read through
@user-ew2sd7vl5m3 жыл бұрын
It’s honestly so sad, he’s so full of himself when most of what he’s said is a load of shit
@VirtuaBros2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I suppose I let the stress of a constant stream of negative comments during the pandemic get to me. You live and learn.
@kenbee19572 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros A well earned stream of negative comments, eh? Your video was a horrible fail at a hack job on another far-better written Shenmue video. I was half watching it in the background as I usually do, and I had to pause it and actually pick up my phone to type out a comment ...only to find that most of the comments on here were already addressing it. But congratulations on all the video engagement I guess
@friktogurg9242 Жыл бұрын
SEW is shit period
@eropandasennin13 Жыл бұрын
@@friktogurg9242 Cry harder.
@hoovybird41673 ай бұрын
the logic of "its a call back" as a defence for poor game design and lack of evoloution in gameplay is so terrible, imagine if street fighter made a new sequel that didnt come with a training mode and then said "its an omage to the original arcade relase of street fighter one to demonstrate how dificult it was for people to learn back in the day" now thats pretentious LOL
@personalighting214 жыл бұрын
So watched the whole thing. I'll be honest, there is information in here that definitely isn't in SEW video. I also like the correlation of VF when you talked about gameplay. That doesn't make SEW invalid, but doesn't make yours either. What does make your video worse in general is the absolute lack of tac when describing SEW as misleading. At worst the way you characterize him is almost cartoonish, a villian whose goal is to make sure that every person hates Shenmue. Also, you do the same thing that you say he does by misleading people. Bringing up Akira and VF is a cool correlation, keyword CORRELATION. What does that have to do with Shenmue? Like is Akira actually in the game? No. Like? Also, you chastise SEW about skipping cutscenes; you know that feature wasn't in the game originally right? All in all 10/10 was totally personal.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
It's very obvious that he did purposely mislead his audience regarding shenmue 3. He created a narrative that shenmue 3 is the worst game he ever played and is so bad that we all should just move on from the series and let it stay in the past. He omitted important information, made numerous errors, and purposely made it seem as though he was forced to play one mini game to earn money in the game. This was intentional. He knew better. I think it's funny how many comments blame be for pointing out what SEW did instead of blaming him for doing what he did. And by the way, Shenmue is far more than correlated to VF. At its core, it still IS vf, and I can prove it. Perhaps a video for another time? Although I already made a video on this subject called Shenmue the Virtua Fighter RPG. Anyway, no. This video wasn't personal. I have nothing against sew as a person or as a creator. However, I will not allow him to spread falsehoods about a game without calling him out for it. If that bothers people then tough. It's the right thing to do.
@personalighting214 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Bruh, its called Shenmue. Not Shenume : Virtua Fighter. Or Virtua Fighter : Shenmue. Everything you did in your video, minus the call outs, is exactly like SEW, warts and all. You mislead and used unrelated examples. I had to go out of my way to find out about the skippable cutscenes; which you both didn't give the whole truth on, maybe I should make a video on how BOTH of you are misleading? But your call outs definitely set you apart for SEW. Look, I get your indignation on how you think SEW mistreated Shenmue, fun fact thats alot like how SEW got his start with his first video on HXH. This sort of thing brings out a creative obsession I guess. But, have awareness my dude, calling people shills because of there opinion makes no sense. Your a Shenmue shill and an anti patreon shill. There, see how meaningless and effortless that was? Also since I'm sure your gonna see this, the reason why I responded to all this in the first place is that it really made me question any integrity you have as a content creator when you pin a comment that accuses someone of plagiarism and describe the comment as "perfect". That's why I think its personal. Not against SEW specifically either, but all these "influencers".
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
@@personalighting21 lol that pinned comment really pissed you off eh? 🤣 You wrong about pretty everything you said but I don't have the time or energy to educate you. Haters gonna hate. Peace ✌
@personalighting214 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros So, you think its cool to call someone out as a plagiarist, have no evidence, and then you agree with that persons statement? Please, I be better educated by going 100k in debt in college then think you have anything note worthy to learn from. Look forward to your next hit piece ;). Stay salty.
@projectpems83043 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Imagine facing actual criticism and genuinely suspect behavior and the only response you give "You're wrong but I can't prove it so I'll leave instead". How much more pathetic can you be? This video is about how Super Eyepatch Wolf unfairly judged Shenmue 3, not about Super Eyepatch Wolf, and you claimed you had nothing against him, yet your pinned comment is directly targeted at him. Not the promised topic, and completely contrary to saying you have nothing against him as a person. And that comment doesn't even provide proof Just a thinly veiled attempt to try and make your point stronger with a dose of ad hominem on top of all your tone policing and weird use of personal opinion as evidence to rebuke his points. And apparently, you misrepresented the cutscene skipping thing too, so you're a hypocrite on top of that
@capitalistraven3 жыл бұрын
"I did the clickbait to parody the clickbait" is the epitome of pretension. Give me a break.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Now you're getting it!
@attilathepun79833 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros you are silly!
@zoda58982 жыл бұрын
"The video's title is clickbait! Why? Because it's a clickbait parody! It means I'm self aware! Haha, why aren't you guys agreeing with me?"
@junfa86865 ай бұрын
I was a backer, I played Shenmue 1 & 2 as a kid with my next door neighbour. I got myself a dreamcast age 11, played both games as a teen. Donated to Shenmue 3 when I lived in China. It's flawed, but it does not have a triple a budget. I'm happy it exists.
@VirtuaBros5 ай бұрын
I am too :)
@painthing983 жыл бұрын
Watching this video is a bit like watching a David Icke rant. Sometimes you can definitely make a point, but then you just drop the ball completely by going balls deep out of nowhere to how the whole Shenmue story is actually really a VF storyline, much like Icke would make a valid point about economics or something and then going off about how the whole world is run by ancient reptilian alien overlords.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
*facepalm. Calling Shenmue a retelling of Akira's vf rpg storyline is not a crazy conspiracy theory. You're way off base.
@snickermarstwixamv97224 жыл бұрын
There is something I don't get. Why you don't make a video about your opiinion ? Like, why you gotta attack someone to make your own ? It's kinda childish I believe. Just make your own.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Because sensational negativity gets more clicks. That's one of the main points I made in the video.
@EragonShadezIsBack3 жыл бұрын
Virtua Bros you really don’t establish this in your video at all, though. One other example pops up on screen, but most of his popular videos are not framed negatively, they have far more clicks than his shenmue one ever got.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@EragonShadezIsBack that's actually not true. If you compare his shenmue video to other video game themed videos of his like sonic and ff7, the Shenmue 3 video performed the best by far. It's not a coincidence that it was the most negative of his video game essays either.
@EragonShadezIsBack3 жыл бұрын
Virtua Bros lol that’s not even enough to establish a pattern of behaviours, it’s really not something he should be known for doing.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@EragonShadezIsBack if that becomes something he's known for then that's his fault, not mine. As I've said before, don't be mad at me for pointing out what he's doing, be mad at him for doing it. Just so you know I've started muting people that aren't interested in good faith discussions. Goodbye
@commonhurricanebeast3 жыл бұрын
... but you’re allowed to dislike a game...
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Yes, you are. I say that explicitly in the video. You just aren't allowed to misrepresent a game with factually untrue statements and poor insight.
@commonhurricanebeast3 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros but it’s someone’s individual subjective opinion and experience. You are allowed to like/dislike a game without being pretentious. And that shouldn’t ruin your own experience. It’s been 6 months bud.
@Adam-tu1lk3 жыл бұрын
Some good points, but the ascribing of malice to SEW because of his difference of opinions and dissecting his diction in a super pedantic way is cringe as fuck. There’s a way to make this video that doesn’t come off like pure assmad gamer rage. In the future I’d say to steer off attacks on one’s character unless you could reasonably induct some relevant moral failure on their part or something. This felt personal for you for some reason. He’s been criticized very fairly in the past by other KZfaqrs and the responses were fairly amicable.
@petarded33 жыл бұрын
Not gonna lie, I have a friend who tried to get me to play Shenmue 2 all the time and he responded to S3 pretty identically as SEP and dunkey. I don't really have a problem believing they're earnest, even if they do both make amateur hottake commentary for a living. If you just straight up google how to make money in S3 the earliest recommendations are what SEPs video runs through. I don't see how ignorance of optimal strats counts as deception. It's literally extremely likely that earnestly frustrated people gambled their way to the required money. On the other hand there's no mention by you in this whole half hour that SEP had a 33 minute Shenmue video months before S3 that wasn't a hate click farm. That's a pretty big omission when coupled with the entire slant of his channel as positive recommendation videos, and kinda speaks to the fact that he legitimately didn't have 33 minutes of positive commentary to make after playing S3. And I really don't understand the full on attempted guilt trip of him squelching out chances for an S4 as if it's his responsibility to emphatically enjoy things he doesn't just in a hope that more sequels can happen. One of your rebuttals to the combat being worse was literally that the jankiness can be funny. You don't build up a position that S3 is actually good much at all.
@canaricassius83233 жыл бұрын
Expertly said, that's what gets me the most is the fact that he keeps talking about the plants. Literally everyone I know was focused on the gambling because that's what the game pushes you to do It feels real dirty to call SEW as deceiving his audience when so many other reviews and critics and players had the same issues
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Not expertly said at all I'm afraid. Respectfully, having a friend that's a Shenmue fan that didn't like Shenmue 3 isn't an argument. I have a friend who is a fan of Shenmue that loves Shenmue 3 because it's the easiest and most fun to make money in. True story. Googling how to make money doesn't hold up either. SEP literally presented in his video that THE way to make money is go to the fortune teller and then ONLY play Flower Bird Wind Moon. No money guide supports this "strat." Try googling Shenmue 3 herbs. Doing so will tell you how easy they are to find and how fast they can earn you large amounts of cash. Also, the previous SEW video about Shenmue was not positive towards the series. Half of that video was just a documentary about the rise and fall of Sega in the console business. It doesn't give him the kind of credibility you're attributing to him. Especially since he flat out states that he cannot and does not recommend this series to anyone. His criticisms of Shenmue are just parroting other social media influencers' opinions. I tackled these opinions in my other video about why Shenmue Was Always Good. I'm not guilt tripping when I say he's hurting the chances for a Shenmue 4. He states explicitly in his videos that He, Yu Suzuki, and WE as fans all need to move on from Shenmue and leave it in the past. Trying to convince fans to give up on the series is pretty messed up. And in case you didn't notice, I'm not trying to make the case that Shenmue 3 is good or bad. I'm making the case that people should play this game themselves and form their own opinions instead of listening to some currently popular armchair critic. Did you miss the part of my video at the beginning where I said I agreed that the combat isn't as good as the original games? I was only pointing out that there is some fun to be had, jankiness included, and that his analysis of the combat was not thourough or informed.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@canaricassius8323 Sigh you again? Even when people explain herbs to you and show you a video that they are a viable way to make all the money you need you still never listen. The game doesn't push you to gamble or play Flower Bird Wind Moon any more than it pushes you to fish or collect herbs. SEW WAS deceiving his audience by misrepresenting the game. He did intentionally portray Flower Bird Wind Moon as the only gambling game to take advantage of the fortune teller's color predictions. This was done to fit his narrative at the expense of a fair and honest representation of the game. The only thing dirty around here is SEW's video punching down at a game series struggling to survive with ignorance and misinformation. P.S. QTES don't make the body check moves the same. No matter how popular it is to state otherwise, that's just a fact.
@canaricassius83233 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros First off, the body check and reverse body check are the same thing. They are called different things, but they serve the exact same purpose, act the exact same way, are learned the exact same way, have the exact same way to use them, and serve no other use afterwards the exact same way. They are exactly the same in every way but name. They may not be the same in Virtua Fighter, but this is Shenmue and Shemue isn't Virtua Fighter. As well, you keep stating to watch the video on finding the herbs and that I never listen but you're only supporting what I've said before. If i need a guide to properly do something, the game has failed. Also the game does push you to gamble, I don't know what version of the game you have where they bring up herbs but I don't think most people have that. You know looking at reviews, lets plays, forums, fan sites, its almost like everywhere is saying to gamble to get the amount of money. Its almost like not just SEW had this issue with the game. Yet you claim he's being "deceiving" for playing the game exactly how so many others did. Also you claim that Shenmue 3 is struggling to survive due to ignorance and misinformation. Did it ever occur that maybe its not the big mean youtubers "punching down" at the game but maybe the game itself? Maybe if so many people have a particular issue with a game, maybe its the games own fault for poorly conveying information and guiding the player? Again im not saying the game is 100% awful, but claiming that a few youtubers are responsible for Shenmue 3 being received badly is asinine. I'm not saying you can't like Shenmue 3, but what I am saying is you can't tell someone their opinion is wrong because "they just don't get it" or "they're influencing the game badly". I hate to break it to you, but SEW hardly plays into if we'll get a future Shenmue game. Its the games own fault it did so badly, from its kickstarter to its actual game the fault falls on the source.
@NoelClover893 жыл бұрын
@Canari Cassius I don't Shenmue or VF, but I'd like to disagree with the point you make on the body check as you're tremendously reductionist. By stating that, we can now say that every punch, no matter how it's executed or it's intention, it's ultimately just a punch. We can go further with a game by stating then that anything that does damage is basically just a move that does damage, it doesn't matter what the move is like. Would also like to disagree with the idea that "influencers" don't necessarily influence whether or not a product sells well. I got a pretty "eh" impression of Shemue from Dunkey and SEW and while initially interested (not enough to get it mind you), I was rather disappointed at it. This critique brought to light some issues and makes the game seem a bit more palatable (though not enough to have me get the game). I can imagine that there will be people who's more willing to spend on games and was turned off from reviews. I know I've experienced that with some games. That in turn would lower sales, lower public perception, etc etc and could ultimately influence if Shenmue 4 ever comes out. Maybe the fans do play a part. Maybe Shenmue fans saying that they love everything about the game, how it plays, even the whole "picking things up one by one" bit played a part. If you ask for a snapshot in time, guess what,? You might just get a snapshot in time and you might realize that that's not what you wanted.
@Xirbtt Жыл бұрын
You are just ignoring the points he made, maybe intentionally. Saying that Shenmue 3 has annoying parts is ok because the old ones had annoying parts doesn’t make it any better. Nor does a skip button. It’s still in the game it’s still annoying and its annoying still you have to skip it every time. With the combat you try to say the move isn’t even good because of the damage it does, but that wasn’t the point of his example. The point was it took some learning to pull off, the original game used a fighting game as its base for the combat and if you are new to fighting games those inputs can be very difficult to learn and get down.
@angellara70409 ай бұрын
Wanna know what's worse? When he first played that skip button didn't exist
@nickb64253 жыл бұрын
Look I'm not a Shenmue fan so idk everything, and you'll probably dismiss me anyway, but at the end of the day, SEW gave a lot of points as to why he was unhappy with this MODERN game, and I think they were all valid. I think most of his problems can be summed up with one word: purpose. (Or lack of purpose) he isn't saying "why is Ryo taking off his shoes every time" he's saying "why is it a cutscene that happens so much unnecessarily that breaks the pace of the game even if it is skipable". This game was anticipated for NINETEEN YEARS. And if your excuse is that the purpose for Ryo to learn two moves by having the player doing unnecessary cryptic and potentially punishing shit that anyone would find tedious and a huge waste of time, is for him to learn the moves of his Virtua Fighter counterpart? That's a lame ass purpose, especially for people who have waited so long for this game and are more concerned with the actual STORY and narrative. He said himself and I can see his point: in terms of story, you could take this game's story out of the continuity and it wouldn't matter, cause nothing happens. I don't care if Lan Di was untouchable to Ryo's father, Ryo's journey of avenging his father would imply that he plans to surpass his father. People get rightfully pissed when a game's singular mission or level does nothing to move the plot, so to have it happen for a whole game, then having you try to defend that, is kinda stupid. So whatever lol
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
I am going to dismiss most of what you're saying, not for being ignorant about shenmue (which you clearly are), but for misrepresenting my arguments. If you think SEPW made valid points about why he personally doesn't like the game, that's fine. So do I, as I stated in the video. If you think SEPW was justified in slandering a game by misinforming and misleading his audience, saying things about the game that are factually untrue, and calling on yu Suzuki and fans of the series to move on and let shenmue die you're dead wrong. Also, if you think it's "lame" that the true purpose of Shenmue's story is to follow in the footsteps of Akira Yuki in order to learn the true purpose of martial arts rather than taking revenge that's your opinion. But No one asked you, and nobody cares. Go watch another SEPW video and keep telling yourself it's ok to do a poor job of analyzing the subjects of his essays. Oh and by the way, after 19 years it's pretty much impossible to not be disappointed in a game. It still turned out better than cyberpunk 2077 because I can at least play it.
@nickb64253 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros lol ya I do think it's lame in terms of a story, and about a character who outright says he wants to avenge his father. And ya just like nobody asked you to call SEW pretentious just cause he doesn't agree with your fragile opinion and make a whole damn video damage controlling this garbage game that people don't even need his influence to clearly not have a good time with. You're doing no one any favors. You're saying all this true stuff, guess what people still didn't have a good time. And if I as an individual watch a video about it, I don't care if the tedious grinding and zero pay off story has some deeper meaning, people will pick it up or not based on either if they're willing to put themselves through that slog, or if they have a bit more self respect than that. And you say that as if he's forcing people to give up on Shenmue 3, when he says "it's time to move on" he's talking to everyone who had mutual feelings about the game after playing it. And honestly what choice do people have?? To believe in Yu Suzuki, probably a wonderful guy, but who admitted he hasn't played any modern games. You expect everyone to wait another 20 years for Shenmue 4 after this when this one was already supposed to be atleast SOMETHING? Get real.
@nickb64253 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros lol nice reference to Cyberpunk. Sure Shenmue 3 is probably way more optimized, that's a given. I'm not gonna defend the unacceptable situation with Cyberpunk. But if people are still having FUN with that game, while Shenmue 3 is better optimized but still reported to just not be a fun experience whatsoever, then in some ways that's even worse lmao.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@nickb6425 I didn't call sepw pretentious because he disagrees with my opinion on shenmue 3, I called him pretentious because he pretends his argument is based on deep knowledge of shenmue and game design when it really isn't. He's PRETENDING to be an expert when he isn't, and people are buying into it, so I'm letting them know. But hey keep it up with the straw man arguments, one day you'll be as good at empty rhetoric as sepw.
@nickb64253 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros He's really not pretending to be an expert. If he was he wouldn't have said his version of the ending is the height of hubris and that it's not even good. You on the other hand, you may have more knowledge on the trivial shit and that's fine. But you're acting as if that matters in terms of how consumers felt about their investment in a game that seems to waste their time for NOTHING. You can't just ignore the reception that a new game got. Also I like how you claim I have straw man arguments when not only do you oppose literally ANYONE who disagrees with you in the comments with whatever insignificant arguments you can pull out, but you harp on the extra trivial shit in SEW's video like his mis-ordering or the name of that game of chance in the game, as if that truly matters in the point of his video. I can never hope to be as close minded and as arrogant as you lol. How is your rhetoric even comparable to his or anyone who disagrees with you when you don't understand the point is he and so many others didn't have FUN. It's like you think he's the only one.
@Blackgold1853 жыл бұрын
“Intrinsic and extrinsic are jargon” got me rolling. Dude they are not that uncommon in the video essay category and can’t really be substituted with another more common word with having to make it a full sentence. You just can’t use that as an argument because that could mean that if some doesn’t already know a word they will just accept the point that it’s being used in. Also you really don’t have to defend a single game that not even most fans like that much. Like I grew up with Shenmue 2 and this game was so so frustrating cause I could tell if more modern thought had been put into it could have been a break out for the series. And THAT is what fans wanted for 3 not some fan service bull that felt hollow inside, but a jumping off point, a new era that could rival the likes of the uncharted or tomb raider series.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
*shrug. Roll if you want. It doesn't change the fact that he was using those words to be superficially impressive in order to construct a faux academic argument to mask the fact that he lacks a proper understanding of Shenmue's game design. The way he talked about tornado kick was enough to show that. Also, most fans actually liked shenmue 3, it is only a vocal minority that don't. Expecting a fan funded game to be a new tomb raider or uncharted is a mistake. It could never have been that with such low funding. All it had to be was a real Shenmue game and it was. Fans ought to be (and are) proud of the result. Throwing the series away and leaving it to die is a pathetic response to a glass half full. More than half full actually. There is a lot to appreciate and enjoy with this game.
@Blackgold1853 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros no one should be PROUD of the entertainment they consume wtf is wrong with you? Just cause you like a game doesn’t mean you now have a personal connection to the people that made it.
@mojotheaverage2 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros 'faux academic argument' Bro, you sound way more pretentious than wolf ever did
@Shenaldrac Жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros "Also, most fans actually liked shenmue 3" Wow, most fans of a thing like said thing? What an incredibly bold assertion! If you meant most fans of the entire series, uh... citation needed. Where's your proof that the majority of long-time fans like the third installment? If you're going to make claims like this you really ought to back them up, otherwise you're just arguing your feelings as facts.
@angellara70409 ай бұрын
23:17 plot armor, in a game where the bad guys will beat you to a fine paste and just let you walk away all while waving see you next week and hit the gym, unthinkable
@judeconnor-macintyre98742 жыл бұрын
What has gotten Virtua Bros so much hate, is it the fact that he has personally insulted everyone in his comment section?
@VirtuaBros2 жыл бұрын
Haha it does seem that way. Although I didn't actually try to do that. Honestly, the hate is mostly from defending an unpopular game against a popular creator. That's pretty much the size of it.
@gantzisballs3 жыл бұрын
You make some good points, but I don't believe Wolf was attempting to be pretentious, meanspirited, or unfair. I think he felt legitimately disappointed based on false assumptions. I think he expected Shenmue 3 to play more like Yakuza Zero, while Yu Suzuki wanted to make a Dreamcast era game that picks up exactly where Shenmue 2 left off. There was also a false narrative that picked up steam in the last 20 years that Lan Di was running away and "ducking you" at the end of Shenmue 2. So there was an expectation that Ryo at this point would be able to at least give Lan Di a little trouble. Even though Ryo at best is only at the level of his father and his father couldn't lay a finger on Lan Di. I actually played Shenmue 3 as my entry into the series and thought it was interesting. Sure, it's definitely an acquired taste, but it's not one of the worst games of all time. I keep telling my friends this, but they think I'm crazy.
@Tretas.4 жыл бұрын
The cutting-edge originals were the sole reason Segata Sanshiro died for our sins. This one is his son, Sega Shiro, showing up at his late father’s high school reunion in his moldy gi.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Lol you gotta love him anyway
@composerhideout7 ай бұрын
There's two ways I'd like the Shenmue story to be. One: Ryo stops trying to avenge his father. Two: Ryo learns Lan Di fighting style to kill Lan Di with the same move Lan Di killed his father. But Lan Di has a daughter that sees Ryo kill her father. Then the story ends, OR it could continue with Lan Di's daughter trying to kill Ryo.
@VirtuaBros7 ай бұрын
Love both those ideas
@VirtuaBros7 ай бұрын
Actually I've always thought it would be cool if the mirrors summon a demonic entity which would force Ryo and Lan Di to join forces in order to defeat it and save the world.
@conorthomson43133 жыл бұрын
I feel this video probably would have been better as a general defense of Shenmue 3 rather than trying to pick apart SEW's video.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Maybe. I'm not really interested in doing that right now. Besides, I'm content with the fact that people dislike the video and get angry because it proves my point.
@conorthomson43133 жыл бұрын
That's fair I guess. I just feel that a fair few points made in SEW's video that are similar to what a lot of other people had to say about the game and it would have removed some of the discourse around the video and ironically make it sound less pretentious. It's clear that you both love the franchise despite the difference in opinion.
@Cixelated4 жыл бұрын
I mainly don't like this criticism because it advocates Shenmue III without really getting into it's misgivings. You agree with him at times, but you mainly don't address those agreements. I could see this as a course correction for his criticism, but I really don't see much of what you've offered as a better option. That being said; I don't play the game, but I have Virtua Fighter and I think that if this is a callback to so many things it dates it without really adding to the game itself. It's nice to have moments like that, but there are games like Final Fantasy Remake which do call backs to even minor events very well. I think when I see the also pretty cut and dry development of the story I'm not a huge fan of the games development. But if a game is nothing but nice call backs it's still very shallow as well-- I'm not going to play a game like that. If you're going to make a move from Virtua Fighter have nuance literally add more moves that have more variety and add to to the mythos that is being created beyond the 2 games prior. Again, while I do agree what you have here on the table is good I think that this could have been far less disparaging in rhetoric and just more correcting. There's not a lot I feel this game gets right and while I do appreciate your opinion it doesn't make me want to play the game even as a fighting and RPG game player. I just think that these things just haven't aged into the current millenia well and it's visually just aged very poorly for the level of money that went into it. I personally do not feel that the game is really polished nearly enough for the budget it received nor is it as good as it should be. Yes I do acknowledge the SEW is misinformed on a lot of things, but what he doesn't do is say that it's beyond repair. He doesn't tell me that no one couldn't enjoy it and he certainly doesn't feel out of line in having hope with the direction of the series as even fans admit that this is a low for the series.
@Cixelated4 жыл бұрын
TL;DR this is a Philippic not a critical analysis.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
He says this game is so bad that everyone should just move on from Shenmue and let it die. Screw that. Especially since he uses so many arguments that are factually untrue about the game to support this conclusion. I don't agree with him that Shenmue III is the worst game ever. I think it's a good game that is not *as* good as the first two. That's a big departure. I don't care if you liked my critique of his video. I'm still right about what I said and it does matter.
@Cixelated4 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros hey, like you can do that, but that's not how criticism works. You don't go around saying you're right about things. You can assume a position of relative incredulity but you can't say you're 100% correct. And while I'm cool with an adaptation of it coming forward I don't think he's saying it's the worst game ever. He's never really said that. You'll have to time stamp me on it (as it's been some time since I watched it) but even then the review is full of jokes and hyperbolic statements. I really strongly doubt he's saying it's the worst game ever and if he did I would disagree (as there are M A N Y games vying for that position). I think the energy that this has is a little wild and that the review and your reviews going forward could literally tone down the pretension on your end (which is literally what you're doing here because pretense means "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." which I feel is strongly the case because you're A) misunderstanding how critiques function and B) misunderstanding how your knowledge of the game is giving you a strong implicit bias towards liking it and may not serve as actual layman's understanding of the game itself.
@Shuyin7813 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros NO ! He said that it was it for him, and that HE will move on from Shenmue. But he hoped that other people found what they were looking for in shenmue 3, and if they did, he envied them. He never said that people should drop shenmue and let it die. If you want to quote someone, quote him right instead of twisting his words.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@Shuyin781 YES! He said WE need to move on. I DID quote him right. YOU need to know what you're talking about.
@webdesignyou3 жыл бұрын
The main issue is Shenmue 3 came out way too late. I loved Shenmue 1 and 2. I even went to Japan to Dobuita to drink a Coke from the vending machine and relive my Shenmue dreams. But Shenmue 3 is simply not a good game. All your reasons are valid. But so are Wolf's. Wolf, I can tell is not a mega fan like we are. Maybe he played it when it came out and fell in love with the gameplay and the story like we did. But seriously Shenmue 3 is not good. I was so excited to finally play this waiting almost 20 years for it I'm almost 35 now. I don't know if it's because I'm older or were used to many different games but I could not enjoy Shenmue 3 like I did 1 and 2. Maybe I did for the 1st hour but after playing 15 years of PS2, Xbox, PS3, PS4, and now soon PS5 it's really hard to consider Shenmue 3 actually good. I did pick up the homages as a hardcore fan but while nice doesn't justify the crappy new fighting system and in my opinion lack of story progression. It's 2020, a big part of the game and time spent was grinding for money. You can't compare it to how Shenmue 1 or 2 did it. The past games did it so much better. There was barely any grinding in Shenmue 1. I never felt compelled to Save scum lucky hit in Shenmue 2 to just progress the story. In Shenmue 1 you literally don't have to spend the money Ine-san gives you and you can sort of progress until you get to the Warehouses where there yes it forces you to work and sort of grind but come on it's not the same like Shenmue 3. At least in Shenmue 1 the Forklift jobs felt engaging especially since you raced and felt like you were an actual part of the crew and on a mission to find Warehouse Number 8. Shenmue 3 forces you to make money a large amount of money just to pad out the lack of gameplay. Even if it is similar I guess I'm just too old for these games now since my time is limited and I have responsibilities compared to when I was 14 but I felt like Shenmue 3 was a massive waste of time until the last 30 minutes where it actually got good. The last 30 minutes literally felt like I was back in Shenmue 2 and man that was a sweet 30 minutes but then it just ends lol. I really liked your point on the moves you learn and your comparison with Akira from Virtua fighter 100% agree and Wolf took it out of context or didn't fully understand what was happening. Tbh I don't know what my point is in this rant. I just feel frustrated and jaded on the Shenmue series now. I sort of wished Shenmue 3 never came out because it was a series that was dear to my heart and symbolized my childhood and started my interest in Japan and Asian culture to the point where I found my lucky girlfriend of many years from China. It's not like I 100% hated Shenmue 3 but I guess it was sort of the same thing that happened to Duke Nukem Forever or possible HF3 if it comes out. They waited too long, the industry changed, we all have ADHD now, and they could have never expected to live of 15+ years of hype. Now I just hope they don't botch the Shenmue anime but I don't have high hopes anymore. Especially since the director, directed One punch man but Season 2 which was very lackluster. To me, Shenmue 3 wasn't really the 3rd installment but more like Shenmue 2.5.
@averyvanderlouw11933 жыл бұрын
Everyone who hasn’t played it walking onto these two videos: 👁👄👁
@twtad45513 жыл бұрын
Wow u really dont reply to genuine points made on u at all
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Lol this is the first time I've been told I haven't been replying to comments enough. I prefer spending time with my family over writing essays to trolls that don't even know what they're talking about.
@twtad45513 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros u just proved my point and just manipulated what I said I said u dont reply to genuine points made on u Not U dont reply to every comment and troll U just ignore people when they prove u wrong or make points and if want to block me that's fine but you'll prove to everyone here that u cant handle the flames u intentionally brought on yourself
@twtad45513 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros also in the past month there's been 23 comments and you've responded to 18 of them so you're making excuses here for not addressing real points
@twtad45513 жыл бұрын
And I just found out u feel validated by the negativity but in another reply u said u were muting people who weren't interested in good faith discussions So if u dont mute me which is unlikely I hope people read this and understand what kind of person made this video Good day sir 👋
@Deadpool33x3 жыл бұрын
@@twtad4551 you cant understand someone based on a single youtube video and comment section activity lol
@Shuyin7813 жыл бұрын
You should go have a look to the newest, more thorough review of shenmue 3, and its backstage, that SEW did, with Matt McMuscles, on Matt's show "What Happened" It's really interesting and instructive.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Already did. Wouldn't really consider it "instructive". He just rehashed that he didn't like the story or the combat system again. It wasn't very good. He said on his video that he was no longer a fan of shenmue and then shows up in what happened like hey I'm a fan of shenmue and this is what I think as a fan. That doesn't really sit right with me. Also, he said it was time for himself and all other fans to move on from shenmue. So why isn't he moving on? Why is he continuing to beat a dead horse? Probably because it benefits him to do so.
@Shuyin7813 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros whoa, really defensive here. You really feel about hating them, do you? "What happened" is Matt McMuscles's show, and SEW just participated to it at Matt's request, because he made several videos on it. Your comment felt really dishonest since it was Matt who benefited the most. It was inspired from the SEW's video that you hate so much, so of course there's was gonna some repeat of some points. But SEW didn't develop the game conception in the backstage, which is an interesting part imo
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@Shuyin781 dude don't be like that. I wasn't being defensive or hating, just giving my honest thoughts. Just because Matt might be the primary benefactor of the video does not mean that SEPW did not benefit in some way. I don't appreciate you assuming I'm a hater just because I didn't like Matt's video (it just wasn't good sorry about it). What are you referring to in terms of "back stage" game conception? Did you mean the history of the kickstarter and game development? Pretty much every shenmue fan knows that stuff already because we lived through it each and everyday.
@Shuyin7813 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Your phrasing seemed to heavily imply hate on your part. If it wasn't your intention, you should be careful to the way your present things, to not give people the wrong impression. Matt invitated SEW to participate to his video given that he talked about this subject, but your "he said it was time for himself and all other fans to move on from shenmue. So why isn't he moving on?" give the impression that SEW's video on shenmue was, from now on, forbidding him to talk about this subject ever again, even when other youtubers invites him to theirs own videos. And collaboration between youtubers was maybe the goal here, to give additional informations or opinons, while making the viewers of one's channel discover the channel of someone else, and vice versa. Video with feats is what plenty of youtubers do nowadays to increase to number of their subscribers by sharing their communities. I may be wrong but you seemed to think it's a bad thing. As for the back stage game conception, kickstarter, as well as the distribution, let's pretend, for argument sake, that indeed "Pretty much every shenmue fan knows that stuff already because we lived through it each and everyday". Not everyone is a shenmue fan, but could be interested to learn more about the history of shenmue. This type of video, when you're not particulary knowledgeable on the subject, gives plenty of interesting informations. Whenever the format or the way it was presented is of your liking is another matter.
@clearspira4 жыл бұрын
SEW is clearly a passionate and lifelong fan of this franchise; if he feels disappointed then he has earned the right to express it. Shenmue fans have a negative reputation for cancerous gatekeeping and this video stinks of it.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Expressing disappointment is different than purposely misrepresenting and outright lying about aspects of the game. If you had actually heard me out you likely wouldn't be so harsh toward towards me. 🙃
@roastingpotato4 жыл бұрын
Cancerous gatekeeping? What the hell are you talking about? It’s one thing to be a gatekeeper and another to disagree on opinions. I have never seen a Shenmue fan gatekeep people from joining the fandom, all I see is blatant hatred towards the franchise from people who are completely ignorant on the game (not from SEW,but of the general online consensus), so of course we’re gonna be a bit on the defensive. You sound like a sheepling. Did you even finish watching the video? It’s ok if you didn’t.
@Raro4043 жыл бұрын
“I don’t agree with someone’s opinion on this game I like so Im going to make a video attacking his character”
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Um no? I said in the video that he's entitled to his own opinion and that he doesn't have to like the game. However, spreading misinformation, purposely at times, is not ok. Be mad at him for doing it, not at me for pointing it out.
@edstevens27724 жыл бұрын
And a rebuttal to your rebuttal. Whilst your point that catching chickens is a call back to 2 is true, not only is it repetitive and makes Ryo feel like he's regressed, in 2 there was no ticking clock, in 3 thugs have taken a hostage and have occupied the town. So spending time catching chickens is negatively inconsistent. The issue isn't 'this isn't Shenmue' it's more 'this is stupid and makes no sense.' I disagree with your sentiment about the gambling. He concentrates on that mini game because it's arguably the easiest way to make money as the fortune tellers help. Fishing? Low pay out? Turtle racing? Seems random. Selling capsules? You could spend a few 100 waiting for RNGesus to favour you. Herbs? Whilst I agree its probably the most effortless way, seeing as you need to spend money on stamina you'll probably have sold most of the base ingredients. So it's entirely reasonable that a player may have unintentionally locked themselves out of that option. And comparing the 1 and 2 grind to 3 is disingenuous. 1 doesn't have a grind- Fuku San gives you the money. And 2 has you get 500 dollars twice. That's about 15 shifts with Delin. 3 has you get 2000 then 5000. Its literally 7 times worse. They are in no way comparable. I'd argue your flat out wrong about what Shenmue is. Whilst its inception may have been about Akira learning the martial arts moves, Shenmue is not. The series opens on his father dying, 3 ends on him swearing vengeance on him. The game is about his quest to get revenge, learning martial arts moves is a side effect. At no point does Ryo express his desire to be the very best. As such a game where he does nothing but learn martial arts, especially in the same village where the Mirrors were created and where his father and Lan Di trained- is significantly disappointing.
@PhoenixSplash4 жыл бұрын
"The game is about his quest to get revenge" Think you need to air out some more books and catch some more chickens if you think Shenmue is a simple revenge story.
@edstevens27724 жыл бұрын
@@PhoenixSplash And you need to replay the game if you think it isn't. Ryo hates airing out the books. He complains, gets frustrated and eventually quits because he feels Xuiyung is wasting his time. That's right- Ryo stops airing books because he isn't making progress in his quest for revenge. So I'm not sure what point you think your making?
@LucaxCorp3 жыл бұрын
I’m glad I read comments to videos before watching them. Lets me know if it’s of any merit or if I’m about to waste half an hour of my life listening to someone’s wankfest. Especially helps when the uploader is in the comments making an ass of himself whenever someone disagrees with him.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, way better than actually having your own opinion for sure.
@LucaxCorp3 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros - I have formed my own opinion. You claimed the title is clickbait to prove that negativity draws in a crowd, said the large amount of dislikes are proof, then used the negativity you got, and was presumably expecting, to excuse your bad attitude before claiming you’re gonna stop responding to spend time with your family. Of course that fell apart when you responded to more people soon after saying that. My point is you seem like a crappy person, so I don’t feel the need to listen to you. I’ll admit I was being an asshole with my first comment, but I don’t regret my decision to not watch the video. I’m done here, so respond if you want but I won’t see it. Enjoy having the last word.
@flashgordon93083 жыл бұрын
I don't hate Shenmue 3, but I don't think SEPW's video was clickbait. A lot of people feel like the game is a bit dated and don't enjoy it for that reason. They felt a bit let down. I can't lie, the game is dated but I feel like that's why I enjoy it myself, maybe it brings back a type of nostalgia for me. The ending did make the game feel pointless though lol
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Fair enough. That's why I said it's okay to be dissapointed with shenmue 3 and that nobody has to like it. To be fair after 18 years it would be pretty much impossible not be be disappointed since no game could ever live up to that much expectation. He did grossly misrepresent the game by giving false information about "required" gambling, herbs, moves being the same etc. Not to mention a terrible fan fiction that was even worse than the ending we got. Even if the ending wasn't satisfying at least it was consistent with Shenmue's continuity, unlike the one provided by sepw. His was unsatisfying and it ignored two games worth of plot and context. The video was pretty ignorant and overly negative for most of the time.
@flashgordon93083 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros you could say it's "consistent" with Shenmue's continuity but like dude.. after 18 years.. the ending felt like it was nothing.. and seeing as how Shenmue 3 was received, it's gonna be hard for Suzuki to get backing for a 4th entry. This could've been a perfect opportunity to at least try to wrap everything up, or at least make some type of progression. And other criticisms launched at the game like it not being modified to keep up with the times is still true, regardless if I like the game or not. It is very much flawed and yes one can say, it's impossible to live up to the hype but that doesn't excuse a good chunk of it's flaws.
@kevincubero28554 жыл бұрын
I do like Super Eyepatch Wolf’s content but your video really give me a new perspective on his video of Shenmue 3 and I thank you for that.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching Kevin. And it was my pleasure.
@pdoggochampion21354 жыл бұрын
As a newer fan of the series, I see both perspectives regarding Shenmue 3. Personally, I enjoyed playing through the game and seeing the characters. Considering the budget and other factors, there was no way that it could be the game that fans wanted it to be. Even so, I think 3 didn't have enough impactful or stand out moments compared to the other two titles. Execution in scenes and story events could've been presented better as well. The story is really where I had my issues, but I found the ending to be fine as is. It was interesting and nice to hear a response regarding SEW's video. On a different note, have you considered doing a video about the comparison between Shenmue and Yakuza? I feel it would be a neat topic to touch on.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Thanks yeah I have considered it. They aren't really that similar at all once you get past some superficial, surface level similarities. I'll think on it some more.
@aceragnarok94513 жыл бұрын
This video's pretty bad
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Probably. What's really bad though is that my insights in this video, bad as it is, are still better than SEPWs. That's kind of my whole point
@aceragnarok94513 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros You have to pretty sensitive to respond to a comment this small and insignificant
@MegaNancyLover4 жыл бұрын
The title alone was enough for me to want to dislike, however I always give people the benefit of my doubt so I actually watched the video without immediately disliking. I liked your disclaimers within the first 5 minutes; and while I agree with a lot of your rebuttals, you are baselessly attributing motive/intent on Super Eyepatch Wolf; which makes you come off as a jealous fan boy who is indeed hiding the fact that a popular KZfaqr criticized your favorite game, even if it was flawed on his part. I genuinely liked most of your rebuttals. They made me realize just how flawed his take on the game was. However, once again, claiming that his flaws were deliberate lies is far-fetched and requires more evidence if you ask me. I guess I’ll just leave it as is. Won’t dislike or like.
@MegaNancyLover3 жыл бұрын
Astrah Cat Exactly. It’s a lot like how the masses get so easily influenced by mainstream news. They literally get told what to think, and people eat it up without questioning anything at all. Such as: the accuracy of the information presented, The agenda behind the outlet, The reason behind why they choose to cover or not cover certain stories, The outlet’s sponsors, Etc, etc. The masses believe what they are told merely because a certain news outlet, channel, influencer, or whatever told them so.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@CollapseJazz a lot of people keep using the word "malice". I never claimed SEW was being malicious. The information was incorrect and there is plenty of evidence that he knew better. He was being purposely misleading out of convenience for his narrative. I think his genuine disappointment with the game made it easier for him to be sloppy but I don't think this is genuine ill will. People don't want to hear me out on this but it is plain to see that portrayed Shenmue 3 as having only one viable option to making large amounts of money. He forced himself to stick to one specific minigame and made it look as though it was the game that was encouraging this when it was really his own choice. This is being being purposely misleading. This is lying to the viewers. We should expect better behavior than this, not attack those who point it out.
@anafu-sankanashi89333 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros or like you said about the skip button for cut scenes he may not have known. If he did I'm sure eventually he'll give it a second go and maybe reshape his opinion or reexpress his opinion in a more clear way.
@Macapta3 жыл бұрын
Problem with inconveniencing a player to help immersion is that you still have to inconvenience the player. Just cos something is meant to suck Doesn’t mean I can’t complain that it sucks. Yeah you can’t run through a shrine, but then how about the developers don’t put that shrine in the path the player has to constantly go through.
@youmeltube3 жыл бұрын
I feel like if you're making these kinds of comments about a Shenmue game, then you've kind of missed the main point of the series. Patience. Just because Action games at large try to minimize inconvenience and tedium, doesn't mean that those aspects should never be used for game design. It'd be like complaining that you can't just buy every piece of furniture in Animal Crossing regardless of the day or amount of money you have: The timesink of getting that money and waiting for that piece of furniture to show up in the store, whilst "tedious", is part of the game's design and part of why its satisfying to finally buy that piece of furniture.
@flamingsword25482 жыл бұрын
@@youmeltube bad comparison
@sawyercowley9457 Жыл бұрын
Not liking shenmue 3 for being too much like shenmue 1 isn’t a bad or awful take. It’s very reasonable to want a new and different game when you are paying for something sold as something else. Sequels are all about evolving , changing and improving what the original set out to do. Being disappointed when a sequel can’t stand by itself if perfectly reasonable
@sawyercowley9457 Жыл бұрын
Shenmue as a whole is really disappointing because of how cool it is. At least Yakuza was able to take off and become what shenmue isn’t.
@VirtuaBros Жыл бұрын
You make an excellent point, although I'm not sure I agree with your premise. Being disappointed in a sequel for not evolving in a way that surpasses the original(s) is certainly a fair and decent take. However, disliking a sequel for being true to the spirit of its predessors raises the question of whether one even likes the game series to begin with. This goes beyond criticizing Shenmue 3 for not being creative or innovative enough, and gets to the heart of the issue which is criticizing a Shenmue sequel for being a Shenmue game. That, frankly, is an extremely poor take from pretty much any vantage point.
@sawyercowley9457 Жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros just because I like shenmue 1 doesn’t mean I want more of the same. When it comes to sequels in games half life is probably the best example because the sequel takes everything the first game did right and kept the core and spirit of the game but changed everything around it to make it stand on its own 2 feet and bring me back to play as freeman again.
@chloegreene5174 Жыл бұрын
i have a legitimately genuine question i’m not trying to bash anyone i hope you’ll read this LONG ASS COMMENT (i’m half sorry) and we can either understand each other and agree to disagree :) i really wanna have a discussion about this as some conversations going on in the comments are unfortunate and you’ve really picked my curiosity with your points and sentiments. here goes! so i’m confused because, regardless of whether your actual arguments are correct, the sentiment you share about SEPW deliberately spreading disinformation with i’ll intent toward the game is confusing to me. could he not have just disliked the game, his nostalgia and love for the OG building up his expectations higher than the game delivered, whether those expectations were fair or not? also it seems to me at least from some of the responses of yours i’m reading in the comments that there’s a possibility this video is satire or trolling, since when people have commented here suggesting that, you have responded with “now you’re getting it” and “the negative responses actually prove the success of this video”. if this entire thing is a troll, then that feels kind of cruel, no? to intentionally misrepresent someone’s intentions, which you are aware were not what you say they are in your video (if you are in fact trolling), just to see how people react? i’m sure you knew it would upset people… though it might be fun to troll people online and just see if you can push people’s buttons for fun, it’s real-life people you’re upsetting here; not to mention the fact that misrepresenting SEPW is hurtful to him itself. that being said he does have a larger audience than you so there’s a power imbalance as you are punching up, so it’s not as bad is it could be. but the people in your comments don’t have the power you do as this is your video: insulting them and trolling them is punching down, is it not? i’m genuinely curious as to what the intention of this video was. if this is sincere there is definitely valor as well as value in defending art that you love, that’s 100% fair, and good on you for doing so. going as far as to fault SEPW as someone who deliberately hurt the game in order to rack in views is a pretty far reach from where i’m standing. it’s obvious you care so much for the game and it makes total sense why it would be upsetting for someone to trash it the way SEPW seemed to do. but if you actually take a look at what he’s really saying, he’s not tearing the game apart, he makes both relatively objection points and some very personal emotional points, and they seem super clear to me. i’m sure this was pointed out to you but you two are playing different versions of the game i think? please correct me if i’m wrong but that’s the impression i get. the crux of my question here is: if i’m right in my perception that the game meant a lot to him and didn’t live up to his expectation, resulting in a negative review regardless of the correctness of some of his points, isn’t it fair for him to express just how disappointed he is at the fact that he invested so much hope and love in a game for 19 years only for the game to disappoint him as much as it clearly does, and to therefore express that he no longer has hope for its future? he’s not saying “alright everyone once the kickstarter arrives for part 4 no body give him ANYTHING”, he’s not trying to discourage other people from loving the game, which is demonstrable by the adamant remarks he makes about truly hoping everyone who were waiting for this game got why they wanted out of it. i feel that it’s unreasonable to fault him for his emotions on the topic and for sharing them, don’t you? please let me know what you think i know this is a really late comment but i would love to discuss this with you. i hope i didn’t say anything to upset anyone, if this comment is too long that’s because i wanted to make sure my pacifist intentions are clear, as comment section convos can often fly off the handle or be misinterpreted. i’m a little scared of your response, please treat me with the same consideration! i hope you have a wonderful day and regardless, i hope all your dreams come true for the 4th part of this game!!!!🤍
@ethanpolecheck65023 жыл бұрын
The voice acting in that game is unacceptable lol
@LeadMe2TheBliss5 ай бұрын
Greatest video game experience of all time.
@Cowcatgames3 жыл бұрын
Interesting to see different views. I just finished the game and... to me the biggest problem is the lack of progress in the story. Gameplay isn't great but the narrative is what REALLY kills it IMO. That said, as gamedev some gameplay choices are just awful. The button to skip cutscene is pretty much useless because you have to press it for almost 2 seconds AND release the button to finally see it effective ! Why?! That's often the whole duration of the cutscene itself. Special mention to the square/X button which is both used to interact and open the diary, but it's soooo badly implemented too. When you're close to a character you have to actually wait for the animation to change the button action to actually press it. Otherwise it still opens the diary! This is beyond stupid. I understand walking in the shrine but GOD. This part annoyed me SO MUCH because you have to cross through there constantly. When you're making a game, you should always choose gameplay over story or realism. Always. Otherwise it's a huge source of frustation. On the other hand I didn't find the combat to be that awful. Actually after playing the previous games recently it didn't seem that much different IMO. Just some annoying delay to attack but flaws like struggling to fight several enemies at once was already there. Oh my, you could switch target? I never knew that. The game never really told me this aside from maybe showing all the buttons at once at the start. (again, a very bad way to introduce new commands to a player) As for those slowdowns when fighting with low health it has never happened to me, not even once lol Personally I don't mind not being able to hit Lan Di, but I really, really expected them to talk. To have SOMETHING. Explanations on his motivations. It's all just frustrating that nothing has progressed at all. When he says there's nothing, I have to agree with this. If there's a Shenmue 4 someday, everyone will say to skip Shenmue 3 because there's nothing worth storywise going through it. It's just too much frustration and no reward. Endings are supposed to give the player rewards for their efforts! I don't even know what Lan Di is going here and there. Is he on vacation or something? It's never explained. I still enjoyed some parts of the game, the graphics, the ambiance... but yeah... it could have been so much better.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing your point of view. I agree that it has a lot of room for improvement but honestly the way shenmue 3 turned out should be encouraging to fans of the series and not something to despair over like some claim. The game turned out pretty good and can be even better next time now that the ground work has been laid. People are far too negative and too hard on this game. It deserves much more credit than it gets.
@Cowcatgames3 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros I feel the game should have been tighter focused. Instead of wasting budget making big cities with so many shops that are pretty much copy/pasted but still requiring to record a ton of voice acting, they should have focused on a more linear experience. Personally I always found Shenmue 1 to be superior to the sequel for that reason. I know I'm in the minority but I prefer smaller areas with tons of possibilities and meaningful characters instead of big areas full of void or copy/pasted content. I almost wish they'll go with a smaller budget for Shenmue 4 for that reason. NB : Shameful plug but I'm the creator of BROK which blends classic adventure and beat'em up in new ways : store.steampowered.com/app/1318790/BROK_the_InvestiGator__Prologue/
@flamingsword25482 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros you are assuming that next time will even happen it may never will based on sales of shenmue 3 what then?
@arisumego23 күн бұрын
"outdated game design" is an immediate red flag
@jamesmoffat1243 жыл бұрын
Wolf isnt perfect but he can make damn good arguments and damn good videos
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Videos in terms of presentation and editing yes. His insights on the otherhand leave much to be desired. His points are often not based on deep knowledge of a subject or even a thoughtful of analysis of the facts.
@kazzykun52353 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros at least his videos aren't based on size of his ego. Unlike yours.
@friktogurg9242 Жыл бұрын
Agreed he is in fact quite delusional. Many occasions i wonder if he has problems with object recognition
@famuel26043 жыл бұрын
Shenmue is not in continuity with Virtua fighter. At one point it may have been a Virtua fighter rpg, that game never released, and we have no way of knowing that Ryo even will become a great martial artist. What in the games makes you think the story is primarily about him learning these moves?
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Shenmue still follows the story beats of virtua fighter rpg. It was all planned out during the sega saturn era. What in the game makes me think bajiquan moves are the stories emphasis? *thinks of all the cutscenes showing ryo learn the moves throughout each game. Uhh yeah, where to even begin. Shenmue and VF rpg are still the same story. Not trying to sound rude when I say that you really ought to be able to figure that out for yourself.
@famuel26043 жыл бұрын
Virtua Bros they had the opportunity to make them the same continuity, but they didn’t. If they’re still following an origin story for a character that doesn’t exist in the Shenmue series, then they’re bad storytellers.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@famuel2604 Anyone who thinks Shenmue is not a virtua fighter story has no idea what they're talking about. You don't seem to be open to learning anything either so this isn't worth my time.
@toxin46093 жыл бұрын
Virtua Bros It’s still following the Legend of Akira but they’re no longer in the same continuity and that’s an objective fact. The first 2 pages of The Legend of Akira were translated and show that lots of changes were made despite them following the same premise.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@toxin4609 Of course changes were made. Of course Shenmue is a different universe than that of Virtua Fighter. As you said, the fundamental premise is still the same. The story follows the same thread. At its core it is still a Virtua Fighter story. Those translated pages at Phantom River Stone actually help to further confirm that Shenmue is a virtua fighter story rather than discount that fact. The continuities can be different while still being essentially the same story.
@bacjam61393 жыл бұрын
I hate when he use "jargon" Proceeds to use "jargon"
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Lol you missed the boat on that one man. It wasn't the use of jargon in general, more so its use as a substitute for having a well researched knowledge about the topic being spoken on. That's an important distinction, and it is disingenuous of you to reduce my argument to "never use jargon".
@bacjam61393 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros I understand your point but it comes across as hypocritical I don't mean anything to come across as insulting but i think you could have done it much better
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@bacjam6139 how so?
@Iknowtoomuchable3 жыл бұрын
So you fault SEW for using "jargon" words like intrinsic and verisimilitude in his criticism. Then, a little while later, you start referencing esoteric knowledge about a different goddamn game as you go full *ACKCHYUALLY* about his fairly reasonable effort to make an alternative ending where the events of THIS game have any semblance of narrative impact.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
ACKCHYUALLY I faulted him for using eloquent language as a substitute for an informed opinion in order to feign having expertise on a the subject in question. Esoteric knowledge? Only to non shenmue fans. Sorry for actually knowing what I'm talking about. But hey, if you want narrative impact, how about doing it in a way that avoids gutting the continuity of the previous two games? Being a bit anticlimactic is more acceptable than being inconsistent. Now you know the difference. And you're welcome.
@phantombroker68563 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros I shouldn’t have to be an expert in virtua fighter to play a game that’s not fucking virtua fighter.
@sdl-ep2gd4 жыл бұрын
I didn’t love Shenmue 3 and even nodded along to some of SEW’s points, but this video is a great rebuttal and has me questioning some of my thoughts on Shenmue 3.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much. Shenmue 3 isn't the shenmue game most fans wanted. But if you take it for what it is, it's a good game in its own right. Not great, but good. In my opinion that is 😁
@LeadMe2TheBliss5 ай бұрын
@@VirtuaBros I agree. It's not amazing like the first two games, but it's for sure a good game!
@ThePreciseClimber4 жыл бұрын
For me, the two biggest disappointments in Shenmue 3 were: 1. The lack of fantasy elements. Now, I don't expect Shenmue to go full Final Fantasy but, after the ending of Shenmue 2, the 3rd game needed SOMETHING. Just a little bit of SOMETHING. Why is the sword not relevant outside of a single cutscene? Why is it so tiny? :P 2. The world-building of the Bailu Village. An arcade? A dojo? It really doesn't feel like the village Shenhua described in Shenmue 2.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
I get that. Personally though I didn't really care about the sword of seven stars. It serves the same purpose as the katana in the hazuki dojo. I'm fine with it being a key like in the old games. I will say that Shenmue does seem supernatural throughout the game. Talking to animals, scarring that big buff guy, and freaking out Ren all seemed to hint at super powers.
@friktogurg9242 Жыл бұрын
Do you think the sequel will happen?
@gr8gmr8 ай бұрын
I'd rather it not have any fantasy elements. That's just...not a good blend for Shenmue.
@ThePreciseClimber8 ай бұрын
@@gr8gmr Whether you like it or not, subtle fantasy elements were a part of Shenmue's DNA since its conception. It's like asking Attack on Titan not to have the Basement reveal.
@gr8gmr8 ай бұрын
@@ThePreciseClimber It's way too grounded in reality to be focused on fantasy elements. I just don't prefer it.
@rickykeim20052 ай бұрын
I think ultimately the question becomes How Many Shenmue Games will there Be? Because Yu Suzuki is in his mid 60s and I have to wonder how many Games he's going to get to make. it took him 18 years to get around to making Shenmue 3 and it's looking like Shenmue is in Danger of never being Finished at this point. so even if Ryo faces off against Lan Di and Realizes he's not strong enough to avenge his Dad and that makes Sense in Context of the Games it still means that Ultimately there needs to be More Story written and more Games made and I worry that we're running out of time for those things to happen. but Id rather see an ending to it then leave it unfished.
@VirtuaBros2 ай бұрын
Yeah that's a good point. I think probably 4 or 5 shenmue games. It's getting to the point where the fans are just about able to make their own if need be.
@HeeeeeyOcarina3 жыл бұрын
I think your video and Super Eyepatch Wolf's both have good points and they're sort of complementary to each other in that they show different perspectives based on how deeply each of you delve into the games (you being more of a hard core fan and SEW being more of a passive fan). Each video has flaws, but y'all are both human so it's to be expected. Not enough people in this comment section appreciate that criticism (even criticism of a video critiquing something) is a good thing! Having your views challenged is what helps us grow. In short, I liked this video AND Super Eyepatch Wolf's video.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I'll take it. Merry christmas!
@HeeeeeyOcarina3 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Merry Christmas to you as well :)
@AxelStone4 жыл бұрын
I really liked what you did here, I can definitely feel how flashbacks to Iwao's scene would have added to the ending. Thanks for spreading accurate shenmue-related knowledge as well! 👍🏼👍🏼
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
My pleasure man
@Tsukuyomi994 жыл бұрын
I didn't enjoy Shenmue III as it didn't provide enough story for my satisfaction and the combat system was lackluster. However many of the points you made in this video tend to align with mine. You even brought up some points about the ending I never thought of. To top it all off, I even learned some new Virtua Fighter lore so you have my appreciation. Shenmue III is still my least favorite game in the series but I appreciate a little more now. So thank you.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
My pleasure
@valgas174 ай бұрын
The reality is that everything SEW said in his Shenmue III video is 100% correct. Agree with it or not (and I personally do), he wasn't inaccurate.
@VirtuaBros4 ай бұрын
That's interesting that you would say that because I felt that this video did a good job of demonstrating several instances in which his analysis was incorrect. *shrugs. We all have different takeaways
@danmann8613 ай бұрын
I disagree. Eyepatch Wolf’s video is laughable
@pasarasaki90072 жыл бұрын
This video smacks of someone who watched a video expressing legit gripes about a game they personally liked, and now they're attempting to paint the original video's author as some weird villain attempting to gaslight their fanbase into disliking said game. This thing's riddled with flaws, the most glaring of which was outright saying SEW was trying to "take advantage of his audience's 'ignorance' by using 'jargon'". First, nice. Implying his audience is ignorant. Classy. Second, 'verisimilitude', 'intrinsic' and 'extrinsic' (which he does actually explain in his video), are not 'jargon'. Jargon is a set of terminolgies specific to a profession, trade, interest, etc in particular. Those are just big words, maybe even fancy words, but not jargon. And again, if you're trying to take advantage of someone's 'ignorance', you don't then go on to explain the terms. All in all, *any* video trying to disprove an opinion, like this one, is ultimately pointless. It legit almost feels like someone using SEW's popularity to try to get clicks, especially when you go to such great lengths as to try to get ahead of such criticisms by starting off the video with a lengthy explanation of why the title sounds so 'clickbaity'.
@galgow4 жыл бұрын
This video was really interesting and I'm glad to know about the inaccuracies in SEWs video but I feel like you could've picked a better angle. What i mean by that is this video mightve benefitted from some distance from eyepatchwolfs video. SEWs video was so extremely personal and about his specific experience that I never took it as fact, it just seemed like his opinion. Because of that it feels disingenuous to talk about eyepatchwolf your entire video and to claim he was purposefully misleading his audience and saying he fundamentally misunderstands shenmue. I think this video would work better if you just talked about your specific experience with the game without saying things like he is sladering the game to "shill for clicks and attention" when its clearly a niche game that matters a lot to him or "super eyepatchwolf isnt informed enough on shenmue or virtua fighter for his opinions to be taken seriously". I know nothing about shenmue except this video and SEW's two shenmue videos and i wanted to play those games and get into them but honestly this video made me question if i even should, i mean i dont know anything about virtua fighter i dont have nostalgia for shenmue, if even eyepatchwolf who had been a fan for years doesnt "get it" and isnt informed enough to talk about his experience and his Opinion on the game, should new people even try? Sorry i hope this doesnt come off as hate im really trying to offer some constructive criticism and i know from the other comments you've answered you've been get a lot of comments and attention from this. This video was genuinely super interesting and its nice to see a different opinion about this game, i just think if this video focused less on eyepatchwolf and more on shenmue it would stand on its own better. also sorry if there are gramatical errors english is not my first language...
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the constructive criticism. If you are wondering if you should play shenmue 1 or not, please feel free to check out my video on "Why Shenmue Was Always Good". After that you should have a better idea. Don't be intimidated by eyepatch wolf not getting it. He's a youtuber that makes his living off of selling packaged nostalgia, even when that nostalgia isn't his own.
@personalighting213 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros You didn't even remotely understand the point OP tried to make even a little, or you don't care.
@isadora60923 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros bro i don't think OP is intimidated by SEW, but by you. you're the one saying eyepatchwolf, who's a fan of the games, doesn't understand them, so OP probably feels like "if even a fan of the franchise doesn't get it, how I, a newcomer, will?"
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@personalighting21 the point OP tried to make?
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@isadora6092 who is op?
@xandrite_3 жыл бұрын
This entire video is basically Dunkey's joke of "You are nitpicking and biased, Eye patch Wolf. I win, bye bye."
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Not familiar with the joke.
@mateosalguero Жыл бұрын
That was actually really interesting, just goes to show you can't really trust what someone says just bc it has a high view count.
@VirtuaBros Жыл бұрын
Glad you think so
@angellara70409 ай бұрын
Something can be said about any channel but instead of view counts it's twisting words or using the veil of "it's a reference" or "it's a call back"
@monstergelo10724 жыл бұрын
Wish you could talk more about the combat, not just pointing out flaws in sew talking point
@poobumbutt4 жыл бұрын
I feel like half this video is either you telling SEW that his complaints are defunct because "it was like that in the previous games, which you liked!" when part of his point is that it's time to move on from some those design philosophies. I get that a lot of those are there as callbacks for fans (for whom Shenmue 3 was pretty much exclusively made), but that doesn't make them any more fun to "engage" with. Or it's you blaming SEW for not knowing the reason behind implementations, but not rebutting his actual argument. A good example is the shrine thing. SEW thinks having to walk past the shrine every time sucks really hard. You counter with "that's a reference to a real life social custom" which yes, it is, but his point is that it was boring. Not "mundane", boring. I don't even really agree that Heavy Rain and S3 are going for "completely different things" with their designs here. I think HR prioritizes putting you in a character's shoes first and foremost, followed by the setting second, with the reverse being true in S3. I think the point made by SEW as I see it was that HR managed to do that much more efficiently, communicating the point over two separate, juxtaposed scenes that are mundane, and maybe even drawn out, but not repetitive. S3, not to be blunt but... just makes you walk slowly past a shrine every time. After a few times, it's only reasonable to start wondering what "point" is being made that hasn't been already, which I think makes it more than mundane. It's boring. Then the other half is just kind of dishonest and insulting. Apparently, SEW uses "big words" to confuse people and seduce them with his appearance of being smart and cool. Okay, let's just ignore that what someone considers a "big word" is subjective for now. He defines all the words you use as examples. "Verisimilitude" he does quickly, because a dictionary definition is all you need in context. For "intrinsic and extrinsic" he spends ample time explaining what those are and why they matter to his point. If someone is confused by that and ends up thinking the argument is more profound than it really is, that's on them, not on SEW's lazy or casual use of complicated terms. Also, I thought it was really funny how you used a segue to transition from criticizing SEW about using terms dishonestly and nitpicking his definition of intrinsic/extrinsic into a discussion about the tornado kick and fight mechanics in general. You never justify why him using these terms are bad points, and you never clarify why his (supposed) misuse or dishonest use of these terms is relevant to that section. The point after about the tornado kick has nothing to do with intrinsic/extrinsic motivation, and so it just seems like... *ahem* that was there to make your argument seem more profound than it is and you sound smarter than you are. Ironic. Anyway, here's hoping the Shenmue anime is just as good as Red Ash: The Indelible Legend! The road to chapter 13 is gonna be long and hard, and judging by this game, stubbornly devoted to early turn of the century game design.
@BelartWright4 жыл бұрын
You've definitely opened my eyes with your attention to detail and knowledge of VF lore. I vibed with everything Super Eyepatch Wolf said, but then again I'm ignorant of the Shenmue series since I have only played snippets of #2. Your points about Ryo's journey being a martial arts journey to build him into Akira hit home as did the point of Iwao's experience meaning little against Lan Di, points I surely didn't consider. I hope this vid blows up. I'll do my part to share it.
@kennethforman52654 жыл бұрын
you should share this video to eyepatch wolf on Twitter.
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Thank you my dude
@BelartWright4 жыл бұрын
@@kennethforman5265 Good idea!
@Rad-Dude63andathird7 ай бұрын
@@BelartWright As if that's not just trying to start shit. 🙄 And dude, Ryo and Akira aren't the same guy. They just aren't. Shenmue was going to star Akira when it was a different game but that's not the game we got.
@mesastreatexit7 ай бұрын
i'm not sure "every time you learn a move technically counts as story progression" is the argument you think it is lol
@VirtuaBros7 ай бұрын
Hopefully, I can clarify this adequately in a concise way. Shenmue was originally intended as a Virtua Fighter rpg starring Akira. In this story, Akira's backstory gets explored, and the player gets to experience learning to become a martial arts champion through his eyes. This series of games follows the events leading up to Akiras defeat in the first world fighting tournament at the hands of Lau Chan, him winning the championship of the second world fighting tournament in virtua fighter 2 by finally defeating Lau, and his entry into virtua fighter 3's tournament. Since akira and Lau correspond to Ryo and Lan Di, it makes sense that Ryo needs the entirety of Akira's virtua fighter 2 moves list to defeat Lan Di. Learning these moves brings Ryo closer to defeating Lan Di. Ryo is learning to be a master of Akira's fighting style, and to this end, learning these moves is progressing the story.
@danmann8613 ай бұрын
But it is. This story is all about a kid embarking on a journey learning from various masters he encounters along the way on his quest to avenge his father. That was this series has ALWAYS been.
@mr.k32214 жыл бұрын
I have been a fan of virtua fighter and bajiquan/martial arts for a long time, i had been intered in the shenmune games but that video really disapointed me, but this video helped me understand the game better, now i migth probably play it
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Awesome! You have a ps4 or pc? I think it's on sale.
@kennethforman52654 жыл бұрын
you should also share this vid to eyepatch wolf on his twitter
@spaceace91033 жыл бұрын
Did you like it?
@daftward92923 жыл бұрын
After getting a degree in game design and spending years learning from professionals in the field before going into a different field, SEW's views are a bit more in line with modern game design, in which the goal of the game is to target the largest audience. Yours is more the line of games as art, which is more of an indie development feel. This game is somewhere between the two fields with the changes made and the homages kept. There's merit to his criticism that the game was trying to bring in new players, but in staying with being so culturally entrenched in certain things or being homages to players, it ends up isolating both. A lot of this could have been fixed with removing the flags for certain cultural customs that pop up as events that would not translate well overseas, and you could still include the original ideas in a classic mode. A new player needs as much information presented in the game to teach them in ways that aren't overwhelming. That is good game design.
@enemybird4 жыл бұрын
Is there a limit to how many days can pass by?
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Yes there is a bad ending to shenmue III :)
@ifitworksproductions2 ай бұрын
Even though they were different moves, the (essentially) identical progression in the two areas of "get money, learn move, beat major opponent" was probably my least favorite part of the game. That, or the somewhat rushed ending. That said, I did still enjoy it immensely. Two nitpicks will hardly ruin the entire experience... since progression isn't the primary focus of the Shenmue experience anyway. The second game is still my favorite, & I have minor nitpicks about it as well! And I have a Shenmue tattoo on my forearm, so I challenge anyone to doubt my dedication to this series!
@VirtuaBros2 ай бұрын
Definitely respect your opinion. The rushed ending was unfortunate I agree. Shenmue 3 was enjoyable for me as well, warts and all. Looking forward to shenmue 4.
@TheDr50210 ай бұрын
Super Eyepatch Wolf was definitely incorrect about the Sun, Wind, Bird, Moon game. You can find other ways to earn enough money to pay 5000 yuan for the wine, such as wood-chopping, for example. However, I absolutely agree with him on his alternate ending to Shenmue 3. In an ideal world, Shenmue 1 & 2 would've sold >15 million units, helping the DC find sales success. As a result, the DC would've sold more than well enough to lift Sega out of their mountainous debt whilst also conquering the PS2 and enabling Sega to release 2 or 3 more consoles. By this year of 2023, we would've seen the release of their latest console, the Sega Neptune, with Shenmue 13, the last entry in the series, being one of the most technologically impressive, graphically detailed, and immersive games in history. If this ideal world would've happened, then Virtua Bros would've been right. Suzuki could've shown Ryo's martial arts development as he intended. But, the reality is that the exact opposite happened. Ys Net doesn't have the resources, nor does Shenmue have the commercial success, to create a 13-chapter epic within a feasible timeframe. It's not Star Wars. Thus, it would've been more realistic to have Shenmue 3 progress the story more quickly so that we can see the ending of this series. A way to progress the story more quickly would be to show that Ryo was capable of at least knocking Lan Di over, like in Wolf's alternate ending idea. As far the series being more about Ryo's growth as a martial artist as opposed to a standard revenge story, the story doesn't necessarily have to end with Ryo getting revenge on Lan Di. It could end with him concluding that revenge isn't the answer. It could end with an entirely different and unexpected conclusion. I'd just like to see an ending is all. Yu Suzuki is in his mid 60s or so. If gamers have to wait another 20 years for Shenmue 4 (God forbid), then he'll be approaching his late 80s by then. How is anyone alive today supposed to see the story's ending with Shenmue 13, when it takes a quarter of a human lifetime for each Shenmue sequel to be released? They might as well speed the story up.
@5FingerBallad3 жыл бұрын
Dude, I get it. You liked the game, that’s okay. But to be honest, your Virtua Fighter segment completely tanked all your pathetic attempts to claim SEW was spreading false information about the game. It’s okay to be critical of the franchises you love...especially since the company refused to sell the game on a platform (Steam) that supported most of its investors. Shenmu 3 was made off of lies and greedy business practices. You’re kind of letting abusive companies taking advantage of you, man. Play Yakuza, they brought back what Shenmu was and so much more.
@5FingerBallad3 жыл бұрын
Your comments toward your viewers show how little journalistic integrity you have good sir. SEE, I can talk with a thesaurus too, lol.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Lol @ just play yakuza instead of shenmue. Beyond some superficialities they are nothing alike. The virtua fighter segment of my video was the nail in the coffin of SEPW's biggest argument: that Shenmue's story and martial arts progression had no purpose in Shenmue 3. SEPW's ignorance was out of neglect for doing thorough research. You're ignorance is willful, there is no helping you as long as you persist with that kind if attitude. Anyway have fun being offended on behalf of some youtuber that doesn't even know you or care about you. Sounds like a meaningful use of your time.
@5FingerBallad3 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros I think I’m less offended given I’ve only watched a few of his videos, and more offended that you are religiously defending an over-priced alpha that exploited its fan base for quick profit.
@Thekid5293 жыл бұрын
This entire video screams blind fan boy (despite you so eloquently saying it’s not)
@Thekid5293 жыл бұрын
Also saying that flaws are just call backs and accuracy to customs isn’t a fare rebuttal newer games have to evolve
@Thekid5293 жыл бұрын
Also the whole “hE USe bIG WorDS sO aRguMenT baD” is just straight up retarded
@Thekid5293 жыл бұрын
I got genuinely excited to see this video because I’ve never played shenmue an I wanted to see a different side from eyepatch wolf but all I got was a crybaby yelling about a Australian man is awful for having a different opinion
@hollowedhope3 жыл бұрын
@@Thekid529 you must be trolling
@Sevish6 ай бұрын
I'm not a fan of Super Eyepatch Wolf, and I am a massive fan of Shenmue. I appreciate your explainer on the body checks. Otherwise, I still find SEW's take on Shenmue 3 is mostly agreeable. I left your video an upvote.
@VirtuaBros6 ай бұрын
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you found something useful in my video. Just curious but did you also agree with SEW about herbs not being a viable option to farm money rather than flower bird wind moon? And did you agree with his alternative ending? Genuinely interested in your point of view :)
@Sevish6 ай бұрын
@@VirtuaBros During my playthrough I didn't know that certain combos of herbs would get you so much money, and it's reasonable that other people wouldn't know too. I know Shenmue 2 also gates the player's progress with money, but I can forgive Shenmue 2 because it does something that Shenmue 3 doesn't do - which is advance the story of the previous game. As for his alternative ending, it wouldn't be my choice, but it would be a better way to end the game than what we got. I'm familiar with arguments that Ryo wouldn't be able to land a hit on Lan Di, and I agree with that, but I think it completely misses the point. The ending would be more compelling if it built up to a challenge that could be overcome, i.e. it shouldn't have ended on the Lan Di encounter. I understand that we were supposed to get another act after the Lan Di encounter but it was cut for time and budget reasons, and it's why the end of the game is so messed up. All of this would be forgivable if Shenmue 3 delivered a single story beat that advances the plot of the first two games. Really, most of the frustrations I had with the game were echoed by that guy you're critiquing when I watched his video several months after my own playthrough.
@williamkennedy44403 жыл бұрын
16:27 an actual decent take/response 16:53 discord mods and redditors be like
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Lol so many people in the comments seem to think hyperbole is a decent take/response. But hey, who needs reason or valid information when you've got popularity on your side? As long as enough people like you, everything you say will be defended regardless of the actual truth.
@williamkennedy44403 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros You're attempting to form an argument against a joke. How far gone are you?
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
@@williamkennedy4440 pretty far gone at this point. Trying to answer all the comments can take its toll on you.
@futabamajima2 жыл бұрын
I hate the argument that when someone criticizes a piece of media that they're instantly fake fans. Pretty much every argument against SEWs personality in this video can be used against you. The intro and constant mentions of how SEW doesn't understand Shenmue is the definition of pretentiousness. The whole mundanity part in this video leaves out various arguments that SEW made. The original video makes it clear that the problem with the shoes cutscenes is the fact that the floor is placed in such a way where the player will trigger the cutscene by accident multiple times in the game. SEW also doesn't complain about Shenhua being in the house in Bailu village, he complains about the fact that every day the EXACT same cutscene plays when leaving the house. This is not an addition to immersion, it's a complete immersion breaker. Also, I straight up don't understand this ending. So if Lan Di got completely destroyed by body check instead of mildly inconvenienced that would be more respectful to his strength? Ryo getting destroyed before the finishing blow by Lan Di instead of after would've been shown his strength better? This game would've been fine (albeit maybe a bit lackluster due to the combat) on the Dreamcast, but the fact that Ryo has barely grown in strength while people have been waiting for 20 years is ridiculous. Outside of this, this is the worst way to make a video response. A regular discussion of all points without reassuring to ad personam arguments would've been far better
@VirtuaBros2 жыл бұрын
:) this reaction is perfect. Thanks 😊
@ScottishDuck174 жыл бұрын
Good video, man. Not gonna lie, I did not know that info about the Body Check XD
@VirtuaBros4 жыл бұрын
Scottish Duck! I used to watch all your shenmue let's plays back in the day. I'm a big fan 😊 . Thanks for your kind words.
@ScottishDuck174 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBros Shit, man! Love your vids too ^^
@BATCAKE2 жыл бұрын
Seems like you're just blinded by nostalgia
@VirtuaBros2 жыл бұрын
Nah
@davebob49736 ай бұрын
my only problem with the ending is that it would mean nothing without a shenmue 4
@personperson23803 жыл бұрын
Baby, it's an opinion! SEW's and your opinions on the same piece of media are just as valid as each other! You don't need to make a 30 minute video breaking apart someone else's opinion, because everyone interacts with media on a subjective level completely defined by their own internal biases and preferences. Shenmue 3 vibes with yours, not with SEW's, and that's perfectly okay either way. Opinions are not up for debate, and they don't need fixing. You're free to enjoy yours, and you don't need to treat dissenting opinions as ones needing to be corrected through debate & 30 minute response videos.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Yes I agree with you that, due to their subjective nature, opinions can be equally valid. The same piece of art can evoke different feelings in different people and these feelings are all valid.. However, just to clarify, I'm not trying to debate whether a person should like or dislike a game, or debate how a person ought to feel about a game. My purpose was to show how many specific critiques of shenmue 3 made by sepw were invalid and unwarranted due to being factually untrue and un/misinformed. With that being said, I do think that an informed opinion is more valuable than an uninformed opinion, and wanted to offer more perspective in the piece of art in question. It doesn't sound like you watched the video because I stated in it that Noone is right or wrong for liking or disliking something. This video was warranted and needed to be made to show that, beneath the glossy presentation, emotional guidance, and technical jargon, SEPW'S video isn't a good critique that fairly or thoroughly analyzes Shenmue 3 for what it is. He doesn't have the right to tell other people to move on from a series that they like. The reason I made a 30 minute video was to use his own style to get that point across. Most people still don't notice this, and that's why I feel all the more justified and validated in this video's creation and premise.
@personperson23803 жыл бұрын
@@VirtuaBrosIt seems to me like you set out specifically to explain why someone is wrong for holding the opinions they have about a thing you like. If nobody is wrong for disliking something, why set to dismantling their reasons for disliking something? That seems contradictory to me. Is it okay to hold different opinions or not?
@MagillanicaLouM3 жыл бұрын
@@personperson2380 no I get what he's saying. Opinions are subjective but if they're presented as critiques and those critiques are based in things that aren't true then they deserve to be called out. I wouldn't include the parts about assuming eyepatch's intentions, but if there are things in his critique that aren't correct, then by all means correct them. Everyone has a right to complain about something but not every complaint is a valid, especially when what you're complaining about provides ways around your issues or has a deeper reason for why it is that you don't acknowledge, in the case of video games. I'm not anywhere near as knowledgeable about Shenmue as either of these channels, but I can understand why a fan would want to clear up misconceptions that many critiques of larger influencers may cause outsiders to just accept. I'm subscribed to eyepatch myself, love his stuff, and I watched his video a few weeks back and just took everything he said as fact. Not that it made me hate Shenmue or anything, I actually bought the first 2 a while ago on steam, just have to get around them. But I couldn't see what he was saying that wasn't true, know what I mean? It's good to have another fan shed light onto the stuff eyepatch didn't and explain what's wrong in what he said, to help show newcomers/outsiders more to the game they wouldn't have gotten had they just watched eyepatch and left it at that and to encourage trying it out to form your own thoughts if you care enough. Just again, would've made this response solely about the critiques and game, and not the assumptions on his intentions or anything.
@LongsunZhao5152 ай бұрын
It's actually sad that some of his fans came to your video in order to say that you're wrong for criticizing him. Because God forbid you criticize a favorite KZfaqr of their's that they like.
@VirtuaBros2 ай бұрын
Facts
@LongsunZhao5152 ай бұрын
@@VirtuaBrosand then they want to call most of us in the Shenmue community blind fanboys who can't take criticism but yet when you criticize their favorite content creator, they get incredibly butthurt. Edit: what happened to your playthrough of the HD ports/rerelease of Shenmue 1 & 2 because I can't find them on your channel or on Shenmue Fans channel as well
@VirtuaBros2 ай бұрын
@OmegaHex125 they were unlisted. I'm no longer part of that channel. Still om good terms with ziming but i guess he wanted to go in a different direction.
@LongsunZhao5152 ай бұрын
@@VirtuaBros oh ok
@LongsunZhao5152 ай бұрын
@@VirtuaBros I like seeing your commentary of the game and your knowledge of Virtua Fighter and Shenmue along side your funny convos with your brother I think.
@StickmanStrozziКүн бұрын
lead poisoning is a crazy thing to see in real life
@5FingerBallad3 жыл бұрын
You realize he had the right to interpret why he was disappointed, right? It’s like if I complained at every person that hated Cyberpunk 2077, but I don’t, because they had a thing called LISTING THEIR REASONS WHY they didn’t like it. The very thing you’re complaining about is someone expressing their disappointment with a vacuous product, he’s not telling you to hate it.
@VirtuaBros3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I agree with you that he has the right to his own opinion and that he's free to express that opinion. It seems to me that you didn't actually watch my video because I explicitly stated this. It's ok to not like Shenmue 3. However, it's not ok to misrepresent a game and spread misinformation about it. He said that it's time for the fans of shenmue to move on from the series. That's not his call and I have every right to check him on that as well as correct any falsehoods spread by his video. Deal with it.