D-did you just say that intrinsic and extrinsic motivation are jargon??

I sure do love watching two youtubers go on essay long analyses dissecting a game I've never played.

He was disappointed in the final product, and his video was an accurate summation of how a lot of people felt about the game. To call him a shill, selfish and irresponsible , and that "he's doing his fans thinking for them" seems like an unfair conclusion to draw from his Shenmue video. It just seems like a reach that I as an audience member have trouble buying. It seems like you are trying to misrepresent Eyepatch Wolf's character (or at least his intentions) based on one video that misrepresented your favorite game, and that, to me, seems a little irresponsible. His channel is a very positive place, he was a fan with a video full of valid criticisms that he is entitled to. However, you are clearly very passionate about the game and want to make sure it is represented the way you see it, and your amendments to some of his critiques provide context to the casual viewer. I really liked the parts of your video where you talked facts about the game, and I hope it gets more views.

I really tried to be open minded but you totally lost me when you said “intrinsic” is a jargon word.

OK, you don't get to put "pretentious sophistry" in a video title and then try to accuse others of using "jargon."

Shemune peaked when that guy said years ago I was Chinese

After seeing this video and how he keeps responding to every negative comment. Safe to say this man does not take criticism well.

“Homage” and “retread” are not interchangeable

This video is so remarkably petty. I understand you dislike his video but you go beyond that and try to discredit him as a creator. You basically suggest he's using fancy vocabulary so the normals get confused and agree with him. I would be much more understanding if you were targeting this one video but you're not... you're so bothered by the video that you try to discredit him entirely. You even misrepresent his points at times. He never stated an intrinsic reward system is better than an extrinsic one and that vocabulary isn't even that advanced. He simply stated that the intrinsic reward of progressing as a fighter has been exchanged for an extrinsic one as leveling up is now a key part of winning fights. I agree, leveling up with mini games isn't particularly enjoyable. I don't entirely agree with all of his points. I'm currently playing shenmue 3 for the first time and I reached niaowu yesterday. So far i'm enjoying it. It might actually be my favorite in the series but it's undeniably a flawed game in a lot of ways. He's right that the fighting system is undeniably worse and the in game tutorial does highlight how it's been designed so that button mashing is fine. His choice to gamble for the money needed is extremely understandable. I just wanted to keep it simple and find a job but almost every single npc recommended fortune telling and gambling. The game heavily heavily pushes you towards that option. A couple of people mentioned collecting herbs. Literally noone suggested selling capsule toys or fishing. There's also an in game tutorial note explaining the ridiculous system of buying tokens, winning prizes and pawning the prizes for money. I think it's also important to note that earning money in the first two games was time consuming and grindy. It's not something people seem to get nostalgic over. It's not fun in shenmue 3 either so... seems like a fair complaint. I've watched many of super eyepatch wolf's videos and I enjoy the let's fight a boss podcast. I've heard him express disappointment in many games, many which I've enjoyed and I've also heard him praise a lot of games which I don't care for. The guy likes the games he likes and dislikes the games he doesn't. Shenmue 3 is divisive. I've heard the disappointment in his voice when he's spoken about it. I have no doubt it's genuine and also... i'm afraid to say the animation for the body check and counter body check are pretty much identical... I get what you're saying about them being different moves but when they're both highlighted so clearly as key parts of Ryo's journey... I've no doubt they could have chosen a better move. I hope we one day see a shenmue 4. It seems unlikely but fingers crossed. More than that though I hope you learn some civility. Trying to discredit people for having different opinions is weak... extremely weak.

Dude, you lost me at the start, simply because you spend too much time discussing SEW instead of going straight to the point. I didnt leave a dislike, though.

At the beginning of the video you said that you wouldn't be a blind fanboy, but you focused on things like "you see, it zooms in on his shoes", "this is a callback to a previous installment!" and "the game inconveniences you in order to make you explore its world", in order to refute his point that a lot of things are INCONVENIENT and bog down play time. You said yourself that these are purposefully inconvenient in order to counter his critique that these things are inconvenient. And his critique about the combat system isn't misleading at all. Leaving out that "oh, time slows down when the bar is yellow" or "when you hit this person with this move, there's some weight to it" doesn't make it misleading when you even AGREE with SEW himself that the combat system is worse than the previous shenmues, which was his main point. He probably didn't feel the need to mention those because, in the end, those don't make the combat system good, which you admitted the moment you said that the combat system was worse than the previous installments. So intrinsic and extrinsic is jargon, but pedantic, git, and dilettante aren't? Ok. And you say that he sounds pretentious but this whole video sounds like a college essay that you're gonna turn in as a final. "I'm going to be taking eyepatch wolf to task (really? To task) in this [essay] by exposing how he DISINGENUOUSLY TRIES TO LEND CREDIBILITY (oh yeah big brain time) to his opinions by couching them in a PSEUDO-ACADEMICALLY (really dude) styled presentation" all in all A+ thesis man, all that's missing is your self-awareness. He writes his videos like essays, so do you. You guys even have the same sounding/feeling background music. Bro you even use sad/melancholic music at the end to bring home a point just like SEW, and end with a thought provoking ending statement, like SEW.

“The game is retro-styled! It’s meant to be this way!” Yeah that’s cool, I want to play the game though. “It’s an homage to the old games!” Okay, but again I just want to play my videogame. “Look at the detail on his shoes! You can skip the cutscene, nevermind the fact that you have to do it due to poor controls!” OkAy, I waNT tO Play the VIDyaGaEm! “He’s not running through the shrine because it would be disrespectful! Ugh! So pretentious!” I JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN WITH THE GAME MAN. I GET IT, BUT IT’S NOT ENTERTAINING. Add to that the fact that you didn’t really point out any of the flaws that Eyepatch Wolf did mention. Just because you don’t like the fact that he made an argument using big words that hurt your brain, doesn’t mean that he’s wrong. And you don’t seem to get either that the Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic argument isn’t about which he prefers, it’s about which ties in better to gameplay and story. If he doesn’t bring up every single piece of minutae, it doesn’t mean he’s deceiving you - it means he didn’t likely find it relevant; which it doesn’t seem to actually be.

Man looking at all the comments of comments everyone seams to have a reasonable point of view but he just keeps denying everyone and personally attacking them for no reason

Kind of a self defeating argument. You talk about there still being quality in the fighting which is an opinion and because you view there being some fun to be had in the combat, you call SEWs opinion wrong which is just... silly. Even further, you gloss over SEWs actual criticism of the combat system which was that it was watered down to cater to a wider audience and meant to be more accessible to new fans of the franchise - something the developer has admitted to - which picks apart your argument that the game is intended as a throwback to diehard fans.

this is not a very good video. while you occasionally bring up some important information that SEW missed in his video, you dont address enough of his points against the game. You also consistently bring up absolutely meaningless points. SEW doesn't need to know the Virtua Fighter series to know Shenmue, that's ridiculous. There's also this completely gross idea you're trying to spread that SEW is trying to manipulate his audience to hate Shenmue when maybe he just. doesn't like this game?????

Yeah, no. "But it's a callback" is not a defense for a poorly thought out or implemented mechanic. Saying that while these things felt fresh in earlier games, they now feel like "relics of outdated game design" is not a dishonest critique. You are cherry picking, overreaching, and apparently agree with Super's arguments...just not his tone? I don't get it. This video feels like the dishonest cash in by comparison. :/

7:45 Interview with a dev "Certain areas of Niaowu have sections through which Ryo must pass at walking speed. Could you talk about how those came about?" "KG: This is a very common technique used in modern games to allow the system to load and unload new data as the player travels across the map without bringing up a loading screen. I think the way it was done in Niaowu is quite an elegant solution - Ryo is such a well-mannered person, he would never run where he isn’t allowed to!"

He says Wolf was comparing apples to oranges after he himself literally compares Wolf's dreaded apples to oranges.

This video is a bit of a mixed bag, especially where the two of you disagree with regards to the narrative. I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to engage with the story by framing it as the story of Ryo's growth to become similar to Akira, a character from a different series of games who happens to have been the intended protagonist during pre-production. While they are very similar in fighting style Ryo himself should be developing as a character beyond just learning martial arts moves. It's also a bit strange to assume that the moves will have the same efficacy as they do in a different franchise that contains more fantastical elements. While the localisation has always muddied things I read Ryo as a socially awkward and unassertive young man in the earlier games' cutsenes and having the scene where the body check connects and makes Lan Di stumble very slightly at the end would symbolically represent him growing more effectively than just having Lan Di leave him alive again. You'd still be able to show the more effective version of the move later and it would be even more clearly set up. I also think it's a bit suspect to say that Ryo's father has been training since being in China, therefore he must be far stronger than Ryo. He was also middle-aged when he died and had been beaten pretty handily before the move was used. Add to that that someone's potential at a given skill isn't exclusively tied to how long they've been practicing and I don't see how simply landing a single hit on someone who isn't treating you as credible opposition would shatter the established canon. Shenmue has quite a few eccentric characters and some implied supernatural stuff going on with the mirrors but as far as we know Lan Di is just a guy who's really good at Kung Fu and as such isn't infallible or unassailable. There are some valid criticisms in this video but I feel like in this respect you're being a bit precious about your interpretation of how the game should be, where character development is generated through mechanics but not explicitly through cut scenes and where you need to understand details from a different intellectual property in order to get full enjoyment out of it.

I never comment but thanks for making this video. I watched SEW's shenmue video forever ago (before playing for myself) but saw a tweet praising it again recently and saw your video mentioned in the replies. I've only been a fan of shenmue for a few years but they instantly became unforgettable games to me and my friend who watched me play the entire series. When we got to shenmue 3 I was like "here we go" expecting it to be bad from all the negativity I heard about the game when it released and the vague memory of the SEW video. But honestly besides a few things it was a true shenmue game, and just as special as 1 and 2 to me, it had the exact same energy. I feel like a lot of the criticism comes from people who don't really understand what makes shenmue shenmue. SEW did a video about the sonic fandom which was pretty rough too, negativity just attracts views. you definitely nailed that he'll talk very pretentiously and breathy but when you actually listen to what he's saying it's just off xD imo anyway

wow, i first thought this video was a reasonable rebuttal from a shenmu fan with a different perspective, albeit with a slightly toxic tinge of mischaracterizing SEW's intentions ... until i started reading the comments and OP's responses to them... It really sucks that youtube's removed the dislike bar :/

that's it, i'm buying 3 thanks to you, i believed all his bs, so thank you for being a good counterargument and showing how easily people can manipulate a viewpoint. i'm not sure if i like how yu suzuki believes he'll make at least 3 or 4 more games to tell this story and i personally would've liked if it just wrapped up, only for the fact that realistically, now, it won't ever. But at least i feel comfortable playing this game now.

If your combat is worse than the game you made 18 years ago something has gone wrong. If you have the chance to improve the voice acting and still don't something has gone wrong. Shenmue 3 is a bad game that didn't improve on anything from the older games, was downright worse in some areas, and by the end left me dissatisfied. But at least it wasn't mighty number 9 so it's got something going for it oh also here's the video in its entirety that SEW did kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fNZ-dK513Zqnp40.html since for some reason you didn't link it

I get where you're coming from, but 100% disagree. Call backs are fine, but games have changed a lot since Shenmue 3 and purposely making a game feel slow and annoying for the sake of a Dreamcast era game. Sure Eyepatch Wolf was overdramatic, but thats most youtubers. And the reason why Eyepatch Wolfs ending would make sense is because Lan is under estimating him. And that he isn't treating him like an actual martial artist, but the fact that Ryo gets a hit in means that he has to acknowledge that Ryu is growing. Also I got to say if anything you come off this pretentious in your video. "Super Eyepatch Wolf doesn't know anything about shenmue and doesn't understand why it was made. But I perfectly do so I'll tell all you sheeple and show you what Shenmue really is."

Just because a lot of people don't like something doesn't mean it's actually a "good game" that's being unfairly treated. It just might not be a good game.

This guys behaviour in the comments is a treat to read through

the logic of "its a call back" as a defence for poor game design and lack of evoloution in gameplay is so terrible, imagine if street fighter made a new sequel that didnt come with a training mode and then said "its an omage to the original arcade relase of street fighter one to demonstrate how dificult it was for people to learn back in the day" now thats pretentious LOL

So watched the whole thing. I'll be honest, there is information in here that definitely isn't in SEW video. I also like the correlation of VF when you talked about gameplay. That doesn't make SEW invalid, but doesn't make yours either. What does make your video worse in general is the absolute lack of tac when describing SEW as misleading. At worst the way you characterize him is almost cartoonish, a villian whose goal is to make sure that every person hates Shenmue. Also, you do the same thing that you say he does by misleading people. Bringing up Akira and VF is a cool correlation, keyword CORRELATION. What does that have to do with Shenmue? Like is Akira actually in the game? No. Like? Also, you chastise SEW about skipping cutscenes; you know that feature wasn't in the game originally right? All in all 10/10 was totally personal.

"I did the clickbait to parody the clickbait" is the epitome of pretension. Give me a break.

I was a backer, I played Shenmue 1 & 2 as a kid with my next door neighbour. I got myself a dreamcast age 11, played both games as a teen. Donated to Shenmue 3 when I lived in China. It's flawed, but it does not have a triple a budget. I'm happy it exists.

Watching this video is a bit like watching a David Icke rant. Sometimes you can definitely make a point, but then you just drop the ball completely by going balls deep out of nowhere to how the whole Shenmue story is actually really a VF storyline, much like Icke would make a valid point about economics or something and then going off about how the whole world is run by ancient reptilian alien overlords.

There is something I don't get. Why you don't make a video about your opiinion ? Like, why you gotta attack someone to make your own ? It's kinda childish I believe. Just make your own.

... but you’re allowed to dislike a game...

Some good points, but the ascribing of malice to SEW because of his difference of opinions and dissecting his diction in a super pedantic way is cringe as fuck. There’s a way to make this video that doesn’t come off like pure assmad gamer rage. In the future I’d say to steer off attacks on one’s character unless you could reasonably induct some relevant moral failure on their part or something. This felt personal for you for some reason. He’s been criticized very fairly in the past by other KZfaqrs and the responses were fairly amicable.

Not gonna lie, I have a friend who tried to get me to play Shenmue 2 all the time and he responded to S3 pretty identically as SEP and dunkey. I don't really have a problem believing they're earnest, even if they do both make amateur hottake commentary for a living. If you just straight up google how to make money in S3 the earliest recommendations are what SEPs video runs through. I don't see how ignorance of optimal strats counts as deception. It's literally extremely likely that earnestly frustrated people gambled their way to the required money. On the other hand there's no mention by you in this whole half hour that SEP had a 33 minute Shenmue video months before S3 that wasn't a hate click farm. That's a pretty big omission when coupled with the entire slant of his channel as positive recommendation videos, and kinda speaks to the fact that he legitimately didn't have 33 minutes of positive commentary to make after playing S3. And I really don't understand the full on attempted guilt trip of him squelching out chances for an S4 as if it's his responsibility to emphatically enjoy things he doesn't just in a hope that more sequels can happen. One of your rebuttals to the combat being worse was literally that the jankiness can be funny. You don't build up a position that S3 is actually good much at all.

You are just ignoring the points he made, maybe intentionally. Saying that Shenmue 3 has annoying parts is ok because the old ones had annoying parts doesn’t make it any better. Nor does a skip button. It’s still in the game it’s still annoying and its annoying still you have to skip it every time. With the combat you try to say the move isn’t even good because of the damage it does, but that wasn’t the point of his example. The point was it took some learning to pull off, the original game used a fighting game as its base for the combat and if you are new to fighting games those inputs can be very difficult to learn and get down.

Look I'm not a Shenmue fan so idk everything, and you'll probably dismiss me anyway, but at the end of the day, SEW gave a lot of points as to why he was unhappy with this MODERN game, and I think they were all valid. I think most of his problems can be summed up with one word: purpose. (Or lack of purpose) he isn't saying "why is Ryo taking off his shoes every time" he's saying "why is it a cutscene that happens so much unnecessarily that breaks the pace of the game even if it is skipable". This game was anticipated for NINETEEN YEARS. And if your excuse is that the purpose for Ryo to learn two moves by having the player doing unnecessary cryptic and potentially punishing shit that anyone would find tedious and a huge waste of time, is for him to learn the moves of his Virtua Fighter counterpart? That's a lame ass purpose, especially for people who have waited so long for this game and are more concerned with the actual STORY and narrative. He said himself and I can see his point: in terms of story, you could take this game's story out of the continuity and it wouldn't matter, cause nothing happens. I don't care if Lan Di was untouchable to Ryo's father, Ryo's journey of avenging his father would imply that he plans to surpass his father. People get rightfully pissed when a game's singular mission or level does nothing to move the plot, so to have it happen for a whole game, then having you try to defend that, is kinda stupid. So whatever lol

“Intrinsic and extrinsic are jargon” got me rolling. Dude they are not that uncommon in the video essay category and can’t really be substituted with another more common word with having to make it a full sentence. You just can’t use that as an argument because that could mean that if some doesn’t already know a word they will just accept the point that it’s being used in. Also you really don’t have to defend a single game that not even most fans like that much. Like I grew up with Shenmue 2 and this game was so so frustrating cause I could tell if more modern thought had been put into it could have been a break out for the series. And THAT is what fans wanted for 3 not some fan service bull that felt hollow inside, but a jumping off point, a new era that could rival the likes of the uncharted or tomb raider series.

23:17 plot armor, in a game where the bad guys will beat you to a fine paste and just let you walk away all while waving see you next week and hit the gym, unthinkable

What has gotten Virtua Bros so much hate, is it the fact that he has personally insulted everyone in his comment section?

You make some good points, but I don't believe Wolf was attempting to be pretentious, meanspirited, or unfair. I think he felt legitimately disappointed based on false assumptions. I think he expected Shenmue 3 to play more like Yakuza Zero, while Yu Suzuki wanted to make a Dreamcast era game that picks up exactly where Shenmue 2 left off. There was also a false narrative that picked up steam in the last 20 years that Lan Di was running away and "ducking you" at the end of Shenmue 2. So there was an expectation that Ryo at this point would be able to at least give Lan Di a little trouble. Even though Ryo at best is only at the level of his father and his father couldn't lay a finger on Lan Di. I actually played Shenmue 3 as my entry into the series and thought it was interesting. Sure, it's definitely an acquired taste, but it's not one of the worst games of all time. I keep telling my friends this, but they think I'm crazy.

The cutting-edge originals were the sole reason Segata Sanshiro died for our sins. This one is his son, Sega Shiro, showing up at his late father’s high school reunion in his moldy gi.

There's two ways I'd like the Shenmue story to be. One: Ryo stops trying to avenge his father. Two: Ryo learns Lan Di fighting style to kill Lan Di with the same move Lan Di killed his father. But Lan Di has a daughter that sees Ryo kill her father. Then the story ends, OR it could continue with Lan Di's daughter trying to kill Ryo.

I feel this video probably would have been better as a general defense of Shenmue 3 rather than trying to pick apart SEW's video.

I mainly don't like this criticism because it advocates Shenmue III without really getting into it's misgivings. You agree with him at times, but you mainly don't address those agreements. I could see this as a course correction for his criticism, but I really don't see much of what you've offered as a better option. That being said; I don't play the game, but I have Virtua Fighter and I think that if this is a callback to so many things it dates it without really adding to the game itself. It's nice to have moments like that, but there are games like Final Fantasy Remake which do call backs to even minor events very well. I think when I see the also pretty cut and dry development of the story I'm not a huge fan of the games development. But if a game is nothing but nice call backs it's still very shallow as well-- I'm not going to play a game like that. If you're going to make a move from Virtua Fighter have nuance literally add more moves that have more variety and add to to the mythos that is being created beyond the 2 games prior. Again, while I do agree what you have here on the table is good I think that this could have been far less disparaging in rhetoric and just more correcting. There's not a lot I feel this game gets right and while I do appreciate your opinion it doesn't make me want to play the game even as a fighting and RPG game player. I just think that these things just haven't aged into the current millenia well and it's visually just aged very poorly for the level of money that went into it. I personally do not feel that the game is really polished nearly enough for the budget it received nor is it as good as it should be. Yes I do acknowledge the SEW is misinformed on a lot of things, but what he doesn't do is say that it's beyond repair. He doesn't tell me that no one couldn't enjoy it and he certainly doesn't feel out of line in having hope with the direction of the series as even fans admit that this is a low for the series.

The main issue is Shenmue 3 came out way too late. I loved Shenmue 1 and 2. I even went to Japan to Dobuita to drink a Coke from the vending machine and relive my Shenmue dreams. But Shenmue 3 is simply not a good game. All your reasons are valid. But so are Wolf's. Wolf, I can tell is not a mega fan like we are. Maybe he played it when it came out and fell in love with the gameplay and the story like we did. But seriously Shenmue 3 is not good. I was so excited to finally play this waiting almost 20 years for it I'm almost 35 now. I don't know if it's because I'm older or were used to many different games but I could not enjoy Shenmue 3 like I did 1 and 2. Maybe I did for the 1st hour but after playing 15 years of PS2, Xbox, PS3, PS4, and now soon PS5 it's really hard to consider Shenmue 3 actually good. I did pick up the homages as a hardcore fan but while nice doesn't justify the crappy new fighting system and in my opinion lack of story progression. It's 2020, a big part of the game and time spent was grinding for money. You can't compare it to how Shenmue 1 or 2 did it. The past games did it so much better. There was barely any grinding in Shenmue 1. I never felt compelled to Save scum lucky hit in Shenmue 2 to just progress the story. In Shenmue 1 you literally don't have to spend the money Ine-san gives you and you can sort of progress until you get to the Warehouses where there yes it forces you to work and sort of grind but come on it's not the same like Shenmue 3. At least in Shenmue 1 the Forklift jobs felt engaging especially since you raced and felt like you were an actual part of the crew and on a mission to find Warehouse Number 8. Shenmue 3 forces you to make money a large amount of money just to pad out the lack of gameplay. Even if it is similar I guess I'm just too old for these games now since my time is limited and I have responsibilities compared to when I was 14 but I felt like Shenmue 3 was a massive waste of time until the last 30 minutes where it actually got good. The last 30 minutes literally felt like I was back in Shenmue 2 and man that was a sweet 30 minutes but then it just ends lol. I really liked your point on the moves you learn and your comparison with Akira from Virtua fighter 100% agree and Wolf took it out of context or didn't fully understand what was happening. Tbh I don't know what my point is in this rant. I just feel frustrated and jaded on the Shenmue series now. I sort of wished Shenmue 3 never came out because it was a series that was dear to my heart and symbolized my childhood and started my interest in Japan and Asian culture to the point where I found my lucky girlfriend of many years from China. It's not like I 100% hated Shenmue 3 but I guess it was sort of the same thing that happened to Duke Nukem Forever or possible HF3 if it comes out. They waited too long, the industry changed, we all have ADHD now, and they could have never expected to live of 15+ years of hype. Now I just hope they don't botch the Shenmue anime but I don't have high hopes anymore. Especially since the director, directed One punch man but Season 2 which was very lackluster. To me, Shenmue 3 wasn't really the 3rd installment but more like Shenmue 2.5.

Everyone who hasn’t played it walking onto these two videos: 👁👄👁

Wow u really dont reply to genuine points made on u at all

You should go have a look to the newest, more thorough review of shenmue 3, and its backstage, that SEW did, with Matt McMuscles, on Matt's show "What Happened" It's really interesting and instructive.

SEW is clearly a passionate and lifelong fan of this franchise; if he feels disappointed then he has earned the right to express it. Shenmue fans have a negative reputation for cancerous gatekeeping and this video stinks of it.

“I don’t agree with someone’s opinion on this game I like so Im going to make a video attacking his character”

And a rebuttal to your rebuttal. Whilst your point that catching chickens is a call back to 2 is true, not only is it repetitive and makes Ryo feel like he's regressed, in 2 there was no ticking clock, in 3 thugs have taken a hostage and have occupied the town. So spending time catching chickens is negatively inconsistent. The issue isn't 'this isn't Shenmue' it's more 'this is stupid and makes no sense.' I disagree with your sentiment about the gambling. He concentrates on that mini game because it's arguably the easiest way to make money as the fortune tellers help. Fishing? Low pay out? Turtle racing? Seems random. Selling capsules? You could spend a few 100 waiting for RNGesus to favour you. Herbs? Whilst I agree its probably the most effortless way, seeing as you need to spend money on stamina you'll probably have sold most of the base ingredients. So it's entirely reasonable that a player may have unintentionally locked themselves out of that option. And comparing the 1 and 2 grind to 3 is disingenuous. 1 doesn't have a grind- Fuku San gives you the money. And 2 has you get 500 dollars twice. That's about 15 shifts with Delin. 3 has you get 2000 then 5000. Its literally 7 times worse. They are in no way comparable. I'd argue your flat out wrong about what Shenmue is. Whilst its inception may have been about Akira learning the martial arts moves, Shenmue is not. The series opens on his father dying, 3 ends on him swearing vengeance on him. The game is about his quest to get revenge, learning martial arts moves is a side effect. At no point does Ryo express his desire to be the very best. As such a game where he does nothing but learn martial arts, especially in the same village where the Mirrors were created and where his father and Lan Di trained- is significantly disappointing.

I’m glad I read comments to videos before watching them. Lets me know if it’s of any merit or if I’m about to waste half an hour of my life listening to someone’s wankfest. Especially helps when the uploader is in the comments making an ass of himself whenever someone disagrees with him.

I don't hate Shenmue 3, but I don't think SEPW's video was clickbait. A lot of people feel like the game is a bit dated and don't enjoy it for that reason. They felt a bit let down. I can't lie, the game is dated but I feel like that's why I enjoy it myself, maybe it brings back a type of nostalgia for me. The ending did make the game feel pointless though lol

I do like Super Eyepatch Wolf’s content but your video really give me a new perspective on his video of Shenmue 3 and I thank you for that.

As a newer fan of the series, I see both perspectives regarding Shenmue 3. Personally, I enjoyed playing through the game and seeing the characters. Considering the budget and other factors, there was no way that it could be the game that fans wanted it to be. Even so, I think 3 didn't have enough impactful or stand out moments compared to the other two titles. Execution in scenes and story events could've been presented better as well. The story is really where I had my issues, but I found the ending to be fine as is. It was interesting and nice to hear a response regarding SEW's video. On a different note, have you considered doing a video about the comparison between Shenmue and Yakuza? I feel it would be a neat topic to touch on.

This video's pretty bad

The title alone was enough for me to want to dislike, however I always give people the benefit of my doubt so I actually watched the video without immediately disliking. I liked your disclaimers within the first 5 minutes; and while I agree with a lot of your rebuttals, you are baselessly attributing motive/intent on Super Eyepatch Wolf; which makes you come off as a jealous fan boy who is indeed hiding the fact that a popular KZfaqr criticized your favorite game, even if it was flawed on his part. I genuinely liked most of your rebuttals. They made me realize just how flawed his take on the game was. However, once again, claiming that his flaws were deliberate lies is far-fetched and requires more evidence if you ask me. I guess I’ll just leave it as is. Won’t dislike or like.

Problem with inconveniencing a player to help immersion is that you still have to inconvenience the player. Just cos something is meant to suck Doesn’t mean I can’t complain that it sucks. Yeah you can’t run through a shrine, but then how about the developers don’t put that shrine in the path the player has to constantly go through.

Not liking shenmue 3 for being too much like shenmue 1 isn’t a bad or awful take. It’s very reasonable to want a new and different game when you are paying for something sold as something else. Sequels are all about evolving , changing and improving what the original set out to do. Being disappointed when a sequel can’t stand by itself if perfectly reasonable

i have a legitimately genuine question i’m not trying to bash anyone i hope you’ll read this LONG ASS COMMENT (i’m half sorry) and we can either understand each other and agree to disagree :) i really wanna have a discussion about this as some conversations going on in the comments are unfortunate and you’ve really picked my curiosity with your points and sentiments. here goes! so i’m confused because, regardless of whether your actual arguments are correct, the sentiment you share about SEPW deliberately spreading disinformation with i’ll intent toward the game is confusing to me. could he not have just disliked the game, his nostalgia and love for the OG building up his expectations higher than the game delivered, whether those expectations were fair or not? also it seems to me at least from some of the responses of yours i’m reading in the comments that there’s a possibility this video is satire or trolling, since when people have commented here suggesting that, you have responded with “now you’re getting it” and “the negative responses actually prove the success of this video”. if this entire thing is a troll, then that feels kind of cruel, no? to intentionally misrepresent someone’s intentions, which you are aware were not what you say they are in your video (if you are in fact trolling), just to see how people react? i’m sure you knew it would upset people… though it might be fun to troll people online and just see if you can push people’s buttons for fun, it’s real-life people you’re upsetting here; not to mention the fact that misrepresenting SEPW is hurtful to him itself. that being said he does have a larger audience than you so there’s a power imbalance as you are punching up, so it’s not as bad is it could be. but the people in your comments don’t have the power you do as this is your video: insulting them and trolling them is punching down, is it not? i’m genuinely curious as to what the intention of this video was. if this is sincere there is definitely valor as well as value in defending art that you love, that’s 100% fair, and good on you for doing so. going as far as to fault SEPW as someone who deliberately hurt the game in order to rack in views is a pretty far reach from where i’m standing. it’s obvious you care so much for the game and it makes total sense why it would be upsetting for someone to trash it the way SEPW seemed to do. but if you actually take a look at what he’s really saying, he’s not tearing the game apart, he makes both relatively objection points and some very personal emotional points, and they seem super clear to me. i’m sure this was pointed out to you but you two are playing different versions of the game i think? please correct me if i’m wrong but that’s the impression i get. the crux of my question here is: if i’m right in my perception that the game meant a lot to him and didn’t live up to his expectation, resulting in a negative review regardless of the correctness of some of his points, isn’t it fair for him to express just how disappointed he is at the fact that he invested so much hope and love in a game for 19 years only for the game to disappoint him as much as it clearly does, and to therefore express that he no longer has hope for its future? he’s not saying “alright everyone once the kickstarter arrives for part 4 no body give him ANYTHING”, he’s not trying to discourage other people from loving the game, which is demonstrable by the adamant remarks he makes about truly hoping everyone who were waiting for this game got why they wanted out of it. i feel that it’s unreasonable to fault him for his emotions on the topic and for sharing them, don’t you? please let me know what you think i know this is a really late comment but i would love to discuss this with you. i hope i didn’t say anything to upset anyone, if this comment is too long that’s because i wanted to make sure my pacifist intentions are clear, as comment section convos can often fly off the handle or be misinterpreted. i’m a little scared of your response, please treat me with the same consideration! i hope you have a wonderful day and regardless, i hope all your dreams come true for the 4th part of this game!!!!🤍

The voice acting in that game is unacceptable lol

Interesting to see different views. I just finished the game and... to me the biggest problem is the lack of progress in the story. Gameplay isn't great but the narrative is what REALLY kills it IMO. That said, as gamedev some gameplay choices are just awful. The button to skip cutscene is pretty much useless because you have to press it for almost 2 seconds AND release the button to finally see it effective ! Why?! That's often the whole duration of the cutscene itself. Special mention to the square/X button which is both used to interact and open the diary, but it's soooo badly implemented too. When you're close to a character you have to actually wait for the animation to change the button action to actually press it. Otherwise it still opens the diary! This is beyond stupid. I understand walking in the shrine but GOD. This part annoyed me SO MUCH because you have to cross through there constantly. When you're making a game, you should always choose gameplay over story or realism. Always. Otherwise it's a huge source of frustation. On the other hand I didn't find the combat to be that awful. Actually after playing the previous games recently it didn't seem that much different IMO. Just some annoying delay to attack but flaws like struggling to fight several enemies at once was already there. Oh my, you could switch target? I never knew that. The game never really told me this aside from maybe showing all the buttons at once at the start. (again, a very bad way to introduce new commands to a player) As for those slowdowns when fighting with low health it has never happened to me, not even once lol Personally I don't mind not being able to hit Lan Di, but I really, really expected them to talk. To have SOMETHING. Explanations on his motivations. It's all just frustrating that nothing has progressed at all. When he says there's nothing, I have to agree with this. If there's a Shenmue 4 someday, everyone will say to skip Shenmue 3 because there's nothing worth storywise going through it. It's just too much frustration and no reward. Endings are supposed to give the player rewards for their efforts! I don't even know what Lan Di is going here and there. Is he on vacation or something? It's never explained. I still enjoyed some parts of the game, the graphics, the ambiance... but yeah... it could have been so much better.

"outdated game design" is an immediate red flag

Wolf isnt perfect but he can make damn good arguments and damn good videos

Shenmue is not in continuity with Virtua fighter. At one point it may have been a Virtua fighter rpg, that game never released, and we have no way of knowing that Ryo even will become a great martial artist. What in the games makes you think the story is primarily about him learning these moves?

I hate when he use "jargon" Proceeds to use "jargon"

So you fault SEW for using "jargon" words like intrinsic and verisimilitude in his criticism. Then, a little while later, you start referencing esoteric knowledge about a different goddamn game as you go full *ACKCHYUALLY* about his fairly reasonable effort to make an alternative ending where the events of THIS game have any semblance of narrative impact.

I didn’t love Shenmue 3 and even nodded along to some of SEW’s points, but this video is a great rebuttal and has me questioning some of my thoughts on Shenmue 3.

For me, the two biggest disappointments in Shenmue 3 were: 1. The lack of fantasy elements. Now, I don't expect Shenmue to go full Final Fantasy but, after the ending of Shenmue 2, the 3rd game needed SOMETHING. Just a little bit of SOMETHING. Why is the sword not relevant outside of a single cutscene? Why is it so tiny? :P 2. The world-building of the Bailu Village. An arcade? A dojo? It really doesn't feel like the village Shenhua described in Shenmue 2.

I think ultimately the question becomes How Many Shenmue Games will there Be? Because Yu Suzuki is in his mid 60s and I have to wonder how many Games he's going to get to make. it took him 18 years to get around to making Shenmue 3 and it's looking like Shenmue is in Danger of never being Finished at this point. so even if Ryo faces off against Lan Di and Realizes he's not strong enough to avenge his Dad and that makes Sense in Context of the Games it still means that Ultimately there needs to be More Story written and more Games made and I worry that we're running out of time for those things to happen. but Id rather see an ending to it then leave it unfished.

I think your video and Super Eyepatch Wolf's both have good points and they're sort of complementary to each other in that they show different perspectives based on how deeply each of you delve into the games (you being more of a hard core fan and SEW being more of a passive fan). Each video has flaws, but y'all are both human so it's to be expected. Not enough people in this comment section appreciate that criticism (even criticism of a video critiquing something) is a good thing! Having your views challenged is what helps us grow. In short, I liked this video AND Super Eyepatch Wolf's video.

I really liked what you did here, I can definitely feel how flashbacks to Iwao's scene would have added to the ending. Thanks for spreading accurate shenmue-related knowledge as well! 👍🏼👍🏼

I didn't enjoy Shenmue III as it didn't provide enough story for my satisfaction and the combat system was lackluster. However many of the points you made in this video tend to align with mine. You even brought up some points about the ending I never thought of. To top it all off, I even learned some new Virtua Fighter lore so you have my appreciation. Shenmue III is still my least favorite game in the series but I appreciate a little more now. So thank you.

The reality is that everything SEW said in his Shenmue III video is 100% correct. Agree with it or not (and I personally do), he wasn't inaccurate.

This video smacks of someone who watched a video expressing legit gripes about a game they personally liked, and now they're attempting to paint the original video's author as some weird villain attempting to gaslight their fanbase into disliking said game. This thing's riddled with flaws, the most glaring of which was outright saying SEW was trying to "take advantage of his audience's 'ignorance' by using 'jargon'". First, nice. Implying his audience is ignorant. Classy. Second, 'verisimilitude', 'intrinsic' and 'extrinsic' (which he does actually explain in his video), are not 'jargon'. Jargon is a set of terminolgies specific to a profession, trade, interest, etc in particular. Those are just big words, maybe even fancy words, but not jargon. And again, if you're trying to take advantage of someone's 'ignorance', you don't then go on to explain the terms. All in all, *any* video trying to disprove an opinion, like this one, is ultimately pointless. It legit almost feels like someone using SEW's popularity to try to get clicks, especially when you go to such great lengths as to try to get ahead of such criticisms by starting off the video with a lengthy explanation of why the title sounds so 'clickbaity'.

This video was really interesting and I'm glad to know about the inaccuracies in SEWs video but I feel like you could've picked a better angle. What i mean by that is this video mightve benefitted from some distance from eyepatchwolfs video. SEWs video was so extremely personal and about his specific experience that I never took it as fact, it just seemed like his opinion. Because of that it feels disingenuous to talk about eyepatchwolf your entire video and to claim he was purposefully misleading his audience and saying he fundamentally misunderstands shenmue. I think this video would work better if you just talked about your specific experience with the game without saying things like he is sladering the game to "shill for clicks and attention" when its clearly a niche game that matters a lot to him or "super eyepatchwolf isnt informed enough on shenmue or virtua fighter for his opinions to be taken seriously". I know nothing about shenmue except this video and SEW's two shenmue videos and i wanted to play those games and get into them but honestly this video made me question if i even should, i mean i dont know anything about virtua fighter i dont have nostalgia for shenmue, if even eyepatchwolf who had been a fan for years doesnt "get it" and isnt informed enough to talk about his experience and his Opinion on the game, should new people even try? Sorry i hope this doesnt come off as hate im really trying to offer some constructive criticism and i know from the other comments you've answered you've been get a lot of comments and attention from this. This video was genuinely super interesting and its nice to see a different opinion about this game, i just think if this video focused less on eyepatchwolf and more on shenmue it would stand on its own better. also sorry if there are gramatical errors english is not my first language...

This entire video is basically Dunkey's joke of "You are nitpicking and biased, Eye patch Wolf. I win, bye bye."

That was actually really interesting, just goes to show you can't really trust what someone says just bc it has a high view count.

Wish you could talk more about the combat, not just pointing out flaws in sew talking point

I feel like half this video is either you telling SEW that his complaints are defunct because "it was like that in the previous games, which you liked!" when part of his point is that it's time to move on from some those design philosophies. I get that a lot of those are there as callbacks for fans (for whom Shenmue 3 was pretty much exclusively made), but that doesn't make them any more fun to "engage" with. Or it's you blaming SEW for not knowing the reason behind implementations, but not rebutting his actual argument. A good example is the shrine thing. SEW thinks having to walk past the shrine every time sucks really hard. You counter with "that's a reference to a real life social custom" which yes, it is, but his point is that it was boring. Not "mundane", boring. I don't even really agree that Heavy Rain and S3 are going for "completely different things" with their designs here. I think HR prioritizes putting you in a character's shoes first and foremost, followed by the setting second, with the reverse being true in S3. I think the point made by SEW as I see it was that HR managed to do that much more efficiently, communicating the point over two separate, juxtaposed scenes that are mundane, and maybe even drawn out, but not repetitive. S3, not to be blunt but... just makes you walk slowly past a shrine every time. After a few times, it's only reasonable to start wondering what "point" is being made that hasn't been already, which I think makes it more than mundane. It's boring. Then the other half is just kind of dishonest and insulting. Apparently, SEW uses "big words" to confuse people and seduce them with his appearance of being smart and cool. Okay, let's just ignore that what someone considers a "big word" is subjective for now. He defines all the words you use as examples. "Verisimilitude" he does quickly, because a dictionary definition is all you need in context. For "intrinsic and extrinsic" he spends ample time explaining what those are and why they matter to his point. If someone is confused by that and ends up thinking the argument is more profound than it really is, that's on them, not on SEW's lazy or casual use of complicated terms. Also, I thought it was really funny how you used a segue to transition from criticizing SEW about using terms dishonestly and nitpicking his definition of intrinsic/extrinsic into a discussion about the tornado kick and fight mechanics in general. You never justify why him using these terms are bad points, and you never clarify why his (supposed) misuse or dishonest use of these terms is relevant to that section. The point after about the tornado kick has nothing to do with intrinsic/extrinsic motivation, and so it just seems like... *ahem* that was there to make your argument seem more profound than it is and you sound smarter than you are. Ironic. Anyway, here's hoping the Shenmue anime is just as good as Red Ash: The Indelible Legend! The road to chapter 13 is gonna be long and hard, and judging by this game, stubbornly devoted to early turn of the century game design.

You've definitely opened my eyes with your attention to detail and knowledge of VF lore. I vibed with everything Super Eyepatch Wolf said, but then again I'm ignorant of the Shenmue series since I have only played snippets of #2. Your points about Ryo's journey being a martial arts journey to build him into Akira hit home as did the point of Iwao's experience meaning little against Lan Di, points I surely didn't consider. I hope this vid blows up. I'll do my part to share it.

i'm not sure "every time you learn a move technically counts as story progression" is the argument you think it is lol

I have been a fan of virtua fighter and bajiquan/martial arts for a long time, i had been intered in the shenmune games but that video really disapointed me, but this video helped me understand the game better, now i migth probably play it

After getting a degree in game design and spending years learning from professionals in the field before going into a different field, SEW's views are a bit more in line with modern game design, in which the goal of the game is to target the largest audience. Yours is more the line of games as art, which is more of an indie development feel. This game is somewhere between the two fields with the changes made and the homages kept. There's merit to his criticism that the game was trying to bring in new players, but in staying with being so culturally entrenched in certain things or being homages to players, it ends up isolating both. A lot of this could have been fixed with removing the flags for certain cultural customs that pop up as events that would not translate well overseas, and you could still include the original ideas in a classic mode. A new player needs as much information presented in the game to teach them in ways that aren't overwhelming. That is good game design.

Is there a limit to how many days can pass by?

Even though they were different moves, the (essentially) identical progression in the two areas of "get money, learn move, beat major opponent" was probably my least favorite part of the game. That, or the somewhat rushed ending. That said, I did still enjoy it immensely. Two nitpicks will hardly ruin the entire experience... since progression isn't the primary focus of the Shenmue experience anyway. The second game is still my favorite, & I have minor nitpicks about it as well! And I have a Shenmue tattoo on my forearm, so I challenge anyone to doubt my dedication to this series!

Super Eyepatch Wolf was definitely incorrect about the Sun, Wind, Bird, Moon game. You can find other ways to earn enough money to pay 5000 yuan for the wine, such as wood-chopping, for example. However, I absolutely agree with him on his alternate ending to Shenmue 3. In an ideal world, Shenmue 1 & 2 would've sold >15 million units, helping the DC find sales success. As a result, the DC would've sold more than well enough to lift Sega out of their mountainous debt whilst also conquering the PS2 and enabling Sega to release 2 or 3 more consoles. By this year of 2023, we would've seen the release of their latest console, the Sega Neptune, with Shenmue 13, the last entry in the series, being one of the most technologically impressive, graphically detailed, and immersive games in history. If this ideal world would've happened, then Virtua Bros would've been right. Suzuki could've shown Ryo's martial arts development as he intended. But, the reality is that the exact opposite happened. Ys Net doesn't have the resources, nor does Shenmue have the commercial success, to create a 13-chapter epic within a feasible timeframe. It's not Star Wars. Thus, it would've been more realistic to have Shenmue 3 progress the story more quickly so that we can see the ending of this series. A way to progress the story more quickly would be to show that Ryo was capable of at least knocking Lan Di over, like in Wolf's alternate ending idea. As far the series being more about Ryo's growth as a martial artist as opposed to a standard revenge story, the story doesn't necessarily have to end with Ryo getting revenge on Lan Di. It could end with him concluding that revenge isn't the answer. It could end with an entirely different and unexpected conclusion. I'd just like to see an ending is all. Yu Suzuki is in his mid 60s or so. If gamers have to wait another 20 years for Shenmue 4 (God forbid), then he'll be approaching his late 80s by then. How is anyone alive today supposed to see the story's ending with Shenmue 13, when it takes a quarter of a human lifetime for each Shenmue sequel to be released? They might as well speed the story up.

Dude, I get it. You liked the game, that’s okay. But to be honest, your Virtua Fighter segment completely tanked all your pathetic attempts to claim SEW was spreading false information about the game. It’s okay to be critical of the franchises you love...especially since the company refused to sell the game on a platform (Steam) that supported most of its investors. Shenmu 3 was made off of lies and greedy business practices. You’re kind of letting abusive companies taking advantage of you, man. Play Yakuza, they brought back what Shenmu was and so much more.

This entire video screams blind fan boy (despite you so eloquently saying it’s not)

I'm not a fan of Super Eyepatch Wolf, and I am a massive fan of Shenmue. I appreciate your explainer on the body checks. Otherwise, I still find SEW's take on Shenmue 3 is mostly agreeable. I left your video an upvote.

16:27 an actual decent take/response 16:53 discord mods and redditors be like

I hate the argument that when someone criticizes a piece of media that they're instantly fake fans. Pretty much every argument against SEWs personality in this video can be used against you. The intro and constant mentions of how SEW doesn't understand Shenmue is the definition of pretentiousness. The whole mundanity part in this video leaves out various arguments that SEW made. The original video makes it clear that the problem with the shoes cutscenes is the fact that the floor is placed in such a way where the player will trigger the cutscene by accident multiple times in the game. SEW also doesn't complain about Shenhua being in the house in Bailu village, he complains about the fact that every day the EXACT same cutscene plays when leaving the house. This is not an addition to immersion, it's a complete immersion breaker. Also, I straight up don't understand this ending. So if Lan Di got completely destroyed by body check instead of mildly inconvenienced that would be more respectful to his strength? Ryo getting destroyed before the finishing blow by Lan Di instead of after would've been shown his strength better? This game would've been fine (albeit maybe a bit lackluster due to the combat) on the Dreamcast, but the fact that Ryo has barely grown in strength while people have been waiting for 20 years is ridiculous. Outside of this, this is the worst way to make a video response. A regular discussion of all points without reassuring to ad personam arguments would've been far better

Good video, man. Not gonna lie, I did not know that info about the Body Check XD

Seems like you're just blinded by nostalgia

my only problem with the ending is that it would mean nothing without a shenmue 4

Baby, it's an opinion! SEW's and your opinions on the same piece of media are just as valid as each other! You don't need to make a 30 minute video breaking apart someone else's opinion, because everyone interacts with media on a subjective level completely defined by their own internal biases and preferences. Shenmue 3 vibes with yours, not with SEW's, and that's perfectly okay either way. Opinions are not up for debate, and they don't need fixing. You're free to enjoy yours, and you don't need to treat dissenting opinions as ones needing to be corrected through debate & 30 minute response videos.

It's actually sad that some of his fans came to your video in order to say that you're wrong for criticizing him. Because God forbid you criticize a favorite KZfaqr of their's that they like.

lead poisoning is a crazy thing to see in real life

You realize he had the right to interpret why he was disappointed, right? It’s like if I complained at every person that hated Cyberpunk 2077, but I don’t, because they had a thing called LISTING THEIR REASONS WHY they didn’t like it. The very thing you’re complaining about is someone expressing their disappointment with a vacuous product, he’s not telling you to hate it.