How many straight marriages lead to affairs? But no one is questioning their right to get married...

@@KevenTalks @themagickalmermaid was referring to the accuracy of Midler’s observations. In some ways, we do marriage differently than straight folks, and that’s totally okay. Even Bette thinks so! And affairs are affairs, gay or straight. No one thinks they’re cool except Ashley Madison users. Maybe we can bring the LGBTQ+ community back together (anyone else noticed how fractured we’ve been lately?) over a good ol’ passing-of-judgment on those ludicrous cheaters. 😂

I would 100% agree with everything you said IF a huge part of her success wasn't due to gay men's support (both as fans and as members of a notoriously gay industry: entertainment / Hollywood / music). For me that automatically removes any grace I'd otherwise give someone who's of a certain generation, culture, or context with limited exposure to gay men. She's saying the opposite - that she's practically "one of the gays" - and then doubles down on offensive caricatures about gay men...

@@KevenTalks From the following excerpt from the 2008 Advocate article entitled "Winning Bette," Bette Midler discusses the 2003 Larry King interview and how her views on gay marriage evolved since that interview: "[Interviewer] Let's [talk] about same-sex marriage. How are you feeling about the issue now? Because there have been hurt feelings--people feeling you weren't on their side. [Bette] It's interesting. I have some gay friends who are for it, some gay friends who are against it. And I just feel like it's evolving and it's probably going to come to fruition, and it's probably going to be just fine. I think it's going to be fine. I think people should be able to commit themselves to the people that they love. I have no problem with it whatsoever... [Interviewer] What you're saying is going to be greeted with a lot of happiness, because in that interview with Larry King, you had to think it over. You were conflicted. [Bette] I did have to think it over. These are enormous, just gigantic seismic shifts. People don't like change. People have to get used to it. They have to process it. They have to weigh it. You don't just rush off and say, "I'm going to marry that guy." You just don't do it. A grown-up person analyzes it, hears it, processes it, and makes a decision. You come to a conclusion after you've thought it over, and you really -- I'm not so quick. I'm still singing songs from the fuckin '40s! [Laughs] Give it a rest! Come on! I'm slow! [Both laugh] But gay people changed, of course, much faster than everybody else did and suddenly wanted this thing. I mean, I've known gay people, I've been around people and loved them and have been my dear friends and buried 'em and, you know, all that. But this is like a shift that nobody even--nobody saw that coming. [Interviewer] A lot of gay people didn't see it coming. [Bette] And they still don't see it coming. They think about their own parents and what their parents' relationship meant to them, and they're looking around saying, Is that what I -- ? Am I imitating that? How is it possible that I would be imitating that? And which part of it am I using, and which part of it am I discarding? These are seismic shifts, and I think for people to get upset or salty is really bad behavior. I'm not casting stones or anything, or calling anybody to task or anything. I just think -- Rome wasn't built in a day. [Imitating a baby] "I want it, I want it now!" Well, you can't have everything right now. You have to give people a chance to get acclimated to it. [Interviewer] You expressed concerns about whether gay men could make a commitment to monogamy. To me, that sounded as though you were thinking of the gay men you met in the Continental Baths. Now, years later, gay people are saying, "Of course we can commit to monogamy." [Bette] Well, gay men are not monolithic. They're not all just one thing. None of my friends are monogamous [both laugh], but other people can be. No, I know a few couples who have been together for a long, long time. I know a lot of people who don't choose to be. Ultimately, everyone's relationship is made by themselves. There are no rules or regulations that say, This is how it has to be. Two people -- they make up what the parameters of the relationship will be. Even when society tries to say what it's supposed to be, people chafe against it and change the rules to suit themselves."

@@luminiferous1960 Thank you for sharing this follow-up excerpt! To be honest, this validates my feeling on her thought process. But I appreciate you giving her grace! 😘

@@KevenTalks I agree that it does validate what you said about her thought process during her interview with Larry King. It also shows that was not the end of her thinking on the issue. She subsequently came to the conclusions "I think people should be able to commit themselves to the people that they love. I have no problem with it whatsoever...gay men are not monolithic. They're not all just one thing...Ultimately, everyone's relationship is made by themselves. There are no rules or regulations that say, This is how it has to be. Two people -- they make up what the parameters of the relationship will be." I think those conclusions show a lot of growth in her thinking even if it took her five years to reach them. Better late than never.

To me, this shows kevin was right. Shes basically admitting being against gay marriage back then and slowly getting used to the idea

Her & Emilio are super involved in the growth of Miami behind the scenes! There are multiple buildings that they have invested in, etc.

@KevenTalks doesn't change the fact she was not happy when her daughter came out. She caught drama for it. We weren't talking about her business portfolio

Oh I had no idea she has a gay daughter?! I thought you were saying don't forget Gloria is a gay icon, lol.

that's what my generation said before AIDS entered the party. I admire your pluck but play responsibly.

@@FriendofDorothy, if you're afraid of sex join the priesthood and you'll have nothing to worry about.😊❤️

I guess my point is I'd rather we lift up actual LGBT people as "gay icons" than consistently seek out non-gay celebrities, especially white women, who seem to carry their own biases and agendas consistently.

@@KevenTalks I don't know why but some of these celebrities like lady gaga really make me cringe in some of their support for LGBTQ. They go way too over board and it seems contrived for attention and to virtue signal. Although I'm sure some of them also do good for the community behind the scenes without seeking attention for it, some of them only do it for their own personal reasons, for example it's their fan base who buy their tickets. I do think in general though a lot of women have been a great support for gay people and them having equal rights, and it's helped by women also having equal rights. In countries where women don't have equal right usually gay's are treated the worst or it's illegal. So while some women are homophobic and unsupportive I think most women are not that way and are very supportive of gays.

@@kmarie7051 Totally agree on Lady Gaga - virtue signaling is right

I hope so! It's also easy to support gay marriage once it's already legal...

Barack Obama wasn't initially on the gay marriage train either. But eventually did come around. People can, do evolve. No reason to burn her at the stake for something said over 20 years ago.

@@rockowilson2320 I love Obama but I personally don't think his evolution on gay marriage was a genuine personal evolution; I believe it was a political strategy more than anything (like with most politicians - their "opinions" are more about securing votes). What bothers me about Bette Middler & other "gay icons" mentioned is the premise of building a career & fanbase through the support of gay men, and then not having their backs 100%. I guess this is the point many seem to be missing from my video in the comments (perhaps I didn't articulate it super well, either).

I get your point but laws are meant to protect and provide justice, not reflect societal statistics - get what I mean? Laws affect culture and vice versa. The comments below for me reflect something clear here, which is that if you grew up not being exposed to the idea of gay marriage, then you may have convinced yourself it's not "extended" to you.

@@KevenTalks Yeah, that's true. I grew up thinking I'd have to pretend to be straight for the rest of my life in order to be accepted. Growing up like that does something really sinister to the mind. I think the world is totally different for gay men and women and it's okay if our society doesn't resemble the heterosexual paradigm. We're different from them and that's okay

I always love the way you phrase your sentences, David! Were you an English teacher by any chance? Are you a writer?

@@KevenTalks I taught Business English, High School English, Art and Religion . Thank you for providing such a valuable platform. I’m learning much from you.

@@davidwoodford1814 Wow! You're learning from ME? 🥹🙏

There will always be people with self-sabotaging belief systems...but I don't think that makes the opinion she shared any less problematic.

I don't know if it was self-sabotage.. for many .. who had no rights at the time.. civil unions were a pretty lofty goal to strive for.. I think because of your youth and the fact that gay marriage has been legal for a good part of your life.. you may not be aware that there were necessary steps along the way.. and all have evolved to get where we are

The gay for pay phenomenon has come up in a few of my interviews with adult stars, notably with Beefcake Hunter. Not sure if you got to watch all of those! ☺

That's exactly right.

I take your point about the monogamy issue.

But isn't it easy to be an ally once gay marriage is legal and no longer a divisive issue? That's my point. I understand not everyone's liberal, progressive, etc but the idea of a "gay icon" not being sold on equal gay rights is mind-boggling to me.

@@KevenTalks that is true, I didn’t think of it from that perspective

Your last sentence is exactly how I feel honestly - yes! It bothers me for "gay icons" to struggle with LGBT family members in their own families. Yes, that feels like hypocrisy to me. I agree that having a trans child is different from a gay child, and may be tougher to deal with (the trauma of transition, etc). Obviously, I wasn't there, I'm not in their family - I just remember seeing at least one interview from Chaz that felt like he was essentially trying to say, "yes, my mom struggled with it" and that it really bothered me as a gay person considering Cher's status in gay culture, and having a primarily gay fanbase. Just my 2 cents.

@@KevenTalks Most parents would struggle with it, they are seeing a huge change in their child, just because they struggle, it doesn't mean they don't accept. It takes time, just like it took time for Chaz to accept himself. You seem to only want to focus on a certain few bad points instead of everything else. Their relationship is better than ever before, Cher was there supporting Chaz when he was on DWTS, she is proud of him but all you want to talk about is the initial reaction, but you don't always know your flaws until you are faced with them. Cher even said that in an interview. We want people to change their mind, gain a better understanding and Cher certainly has. It also not as if she rejected him or didn't accept him, she just struggled losing a daughter but then realised she was gaining a son. Cher has stood up for LGBT rights all her life, but she is only human and makes mistakes. She has earned her fanbase.

lol what? 😅

@@KevenTalks u r ignorant and fault finding! Bette Midler is gayer than you will ever be in your perfect little judgmental life. Maybe you ought to get your stuck up little ass into a bathhouse and loosen up.

I feel it's all connected...celebrities, politicians, influencers...those who pander to communities but then make Freudian slips that show their true feelings on equality, should not be worshipped or uplifted...

Interesting - I find the US to be more ahead of most places internationally when it comes to LGBT stuff. Curious which places you're referring to? Europe specifically is a mixed bag, I think.

I think that was a different brother

At a certain point, we have to stand up for something 🤷🏻‍♂