I rolled 1d4 once in 1981, and I've been using that result ever since.

"I never thought this hard about magic missile." Us too, Todd. Us too.

Rules as Written: the single damage roll for all missiles, story-wise, would mean each missile is the same power and so does the same damage. Rolling damage for each missile, story-wise, means each missile strikes different areas of the body doing more or less damage. Describing where each missile hits can be part of the narrative and can make for more dramatic combat. Just my 2 cents ...

This is actually really interesting, makes it real fun if you get max damage, but real sad if you get min

"I recognise that the Council has made a decision. But given that it’s a stupid-ass decision, I’ve elected to ignore it." (Just a meme with love, you guys are great

"...roll the damage once for all of them..." Gotcha, roll all the d4s at once.

rolling a single 1d4 also makes it a great signature spell for an Evocation Wizard.

"playing since 1e" (raises coffee cup to salute fellow old gamer)

This confusion comes from a rewording across editions. The 1e Players Handbook states that "Each missile does 2 to 5 hit points (d4 + 1) of damage." 1e Rules as written seem to intend that the missiles' damage be determined individually. The wording in 5e is more ambiguous. "Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target."

What I find interesting is that it says, "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." It does mention what to do if it deals damage to only one target. It says quite literally that you roll damage once *if a spell deals damage to more than one target at the same time*. If we're interpreting this correctly (English as written), rolling damage once would not necessarily apply if you're dealing all the damage to a single target, and I would argue that you could roll several d4 if all the darts were hitting the same creature.

The all at once thing is interesting because that mean that all the missile travel at different speeds based solely off of the distance it must travel to the target relative to other targets of the other missiles. A missile that must travel 120 feet must increase it's speed or a missile that is hitting a target 10 feet away must travel slower so that they all hit at the same time.

There are a few caveats, and I'm not saying that Todd's interpretation of the rule is 'wrong'. Magic Missile is a special case in that the dart can target one target or multiple targets as the caster decides. Fireball is an area effect attack, so it makes sense that everyone in the area takes the same damage and you only roll once. The 'roll once' rule has a major downside in that if you roll poorly, then all the darts score low damage. Certainly the opposite is true, but its a real shame to waste a spell slot, especially if casting at a higher level, and roll a 1 on the die.

This really feels like an unintended consequence of the wording. I get it for an AOE like Fireball or Flame Strike, but not necessarily for MM. You could argue that each MM is from the same casting thus has the same damage, I just don't find the PHB rational convincing (but it does say that).

So for the fireball do you roll 1d6 and multiple that eight times. Think of it as an archer being able to shoot multiple arrows you make them roll individually for each arrow. What you were reading is not meant for a spell that can physically target individual characters like magic missile.

electronics technicians are like, "serial or parallel, oh they all his at the same time, ok so parallel, roll once, what's the big deal?"

Two observations. First, magic missile is not an area of effect spell, it is a point target spell that can have multiple point targets, and this makes a difference. Second, the rule quoted does not call for one die to be rolled and multiplied, it calls for all of the dice to be rolled and then applied to all affected targets equally, not the same thing.

You guys missed the main controversy about Magic Missile. Concentration! Jeremy says "Concentration: "You make a separate saving throw for each source of damage" (PH, 203). Roll for each missile." Even though the spell says "The darts all strike simultaneously" and you only roll 1 die for all three missiles.

The problem is that my copy of the PHB specifically states (in bold) MORE THAN ONE TARGET. To me, that means if you are hitting one person with all darts you roll damage for each dart and therefore only get the Empowered Evocation on one.

I'm always of the opinion that more rolls and more dice = more fun. I'll always roll for each missile, just like I always prefer to roll for stats.

Yay! Loved this! Enjoyed seeing the both of you doing more content together! Can't wait to see more!!

So basically Magic Missile should be considered AOE. Still gonna roll for each missile.

Great video I always let the player decide at the beginning of the campaign which way he will roll for magic missile after seeing Jeremy's post. Once they choose that's how they do it for the campaign. I am so glad you and Megan have decided to do videos together. This was fantastic.

Really enjoying your channel. Keep up the good work.

Crawford is wrong in this case. The spell description states, "A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target." This is the English equivalent of saying "EACH dart deals 1d4 + 1..." Since specific rules beat general rules, you roll a separate die for each dart.

Great video! Looking forward to more!

So I reread the wording on Magic Missile to double-check, and it says "Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target." RAW says it's 1d4+1 per dart, so you would roll it for each dart, right? I don't see how you would roll once and just use that roll for each dart.

This was really helpful, Todd. Would love to see more stuff from you like this!

On page 196, it seems to be talking about an area effect. The wording is that damage is dealt to multiple targets at the same time. It does say for all creatures caught in the blast. I don't think Magic Missile counts as a blast. Yes, the missiles all strike at the same time, but they are individually targeted. If you have multiple attacks and shoot a bow and hit two different opponents, would you roll damage for one arrow and apply it to both targets? Ultimately, it's not that big of a deal, in the end. Everyone can (and should) play how they want!

Something not touched on, by I find really interesting is the fact that Jeremy Crawford confirmed that each missile is a separate hit for the purpose of rolling to maintain concentration. Which means a caster would need to roll three concentration checks if hit with a full burst of level one MM. But that would also mean that they’re three separate sources of damage for the purposes of failing death saves. So an unconscious character hit with a burst of MM would automatically fail all three death saves. I almost lost my character to this. I had badly antagonized a villain (killed someone they cared about right in front of them), so they pulled out a wand of MM and let off all seven charges. So that’s 9 bolts, and I only had 9 HP left. Even a 1 on the damage die would’ve brought me to 0 with 4 bolts remaining, then taken out all of my death saves. Thankfully, my Eldritch Knight had Shield, which the DM forgot negated MM. He was so relieved when I survived and it felt like a super badass moment for me!

Love this format for videos!

“Thrown of Orcus” modules we rolled lvl 100 lvl first edition characters back in the day . Magic missile was 1 missile per level.

The best part of burst type damage is that, especially new players, rarely have enough dice to make a single roll. So now, the table gets to participate in the fireball by passing dice around. It’s very engaging and as a dm I love it. Also, roll 1 die per missile. It’s more fun.

You guys have good chemistry with each other - hope to see more videos featuring the two of yah.

this was fun!! I like the back and forth input from both people!! this would be great as a podcast

Another fun twist: each missile is a separate instance of damage. Therefore a caster hit by 5 magic missiles will need to roll 5 concentration checks.

had a Dm rule i had to roll sepritly, so i purpusly picked up Scorching Ray and started up casting it just to take up time and prove the reson for the rule..... he went back on his ruling once i told him i would be making 30 seprit rolls once i got a 9th lvl spell slot.

I always have fun with this one. Currently playing in a game where the wizard rolls individual dice and there's always a lag between him rolling and then the conversation about if he can or cant assigned as he sees fit or has to pre assign the dice. For me it has always been the pay off with it being an automatically hitting spell that the dps can vary wildly by rolling a single die.

Multiple rolls, one for each missile, started when you roll 1 instead of a 3 or 4. *Rolls d4* 1, Asks the dm,” I get to roll for each missile right?”

Quick question that pokes a hole in 1 die multiplied: When all missiles hit a single target, wouldn't this negate the section on "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time..."?

I may be wrong, but funnily enough the damage spread looks different depending on method. If you roll once and multiply it's equally as likely to deal minimun, to maximum, and to any value in between damage. If you roll for each missile the damage becomes a bell curve.

I always roll all dice, it's half the fun in DND.

I have always rolled one D4 (+1 of course) per missile which makes sense especially if you are dealing with multiple targets. As we know the "rules" are written over several versions of the same game. If the magic missile spell was an area of effect spell then maybe sure roll 1 d4(+1) times the number of darts allotted to area divided by the number of targets

Great content once again! Thanks!

My stance is 1d4 and multiply, partly because it's rules, but largely because the d4 is the one dice size that's really just a pain to roll more of. The stupid things are so hard to pick up.

This format is really cool. The scripted part makes it very informative and keeps the information relevant and the conversation cut helps to remember all of it and really understand the matter.

The "spell striking multiple targets, roll once" thing I think is for AoE spells (Fireball being their example). MM specifically targets multiple people, and it's description reads "A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target". I read that as "each target takes a [separate] 1d4+1 damage". Plus, I don't think the roll-once bit applies if you're firing all darts at one target. Would you roll once, and multiply that by the number of darts that hit? That seems really odd.

The reason we roll 1d4 is specifically so that the spell can be cumulatively made stronger by applying buffs to the damage roll via other means. In part, this is because the spell is so iconic, and recieved one of the most brutal nerfs in dnd history, as it used to scale with level. Gaining an extra missile for every 2 levels past 1st for 5 missiles at 9th level. No upcasting required. To offset this, some combo functionality was built in to apply 1d4 as a single roll.

If you are only rolling one die it will create greater variance. The probability is the same to roll 3, 6, 9, or 12. However, if you roll 3 separate dice it is going to be a bell curve around 7.

I know its rules as written, but you’re never going to make me roll only one die!

That is fascinating. I never made that connection between that specific rule for hitting multiple targets at the same time but you're totally right! I suppose the reason people think of magic missile differently is that it has multiple darts ergo in roleplaying they are multiple attacks, when RaW defines them as a single attack. Normally that wouldn't be a problem because multiple ranged attacks have to be rolled to hit, but with magic missile they just hit automatically. Magic missile is just super unique in so many ways rule-wise that I guess it just has some unexpected quirks to it.

Where did you get/ how did you make the Potion bottles behind Meagan? Great work on the video, I've never though of MM as an Area of effect spell. just has a Variable area ha ha

Been playing for 41 years. Informative and entertaining. THANKS!

Maybe to keep both groups happy, wizards could sign off on a variant magic missile and just name it after a famous magic user eg Burts magic missile. That way both exist in the fluff depending on where ur characters studied magic

Let me be clear, Jeremy Crawford thinks RaW is you roll once. However, the RaW is, "A dart deals 1d4+1 force damage to its target." This is clearly an exclusion from the general rules and each dart deals 1d4+1 to their target. Thus, you roll for each. Just as Gary Gygax intended.

The dice thing, the same rule can mean that you roll for the most dice on a single target. So, if you've got 6 missiles, but split it so it's 1 hitting one, 2 hitting the second, and three on the last. You would roll 3d4, the first goes to all of them, the second goes to the second and third, the third hits the last one...so, say, it's 4, 2, and 3. Target one gets 5 damage (1d4+1), Target 2 gets 8 damage (2d4+2), and target 3 gets 12 (3d4+3).

In 3.5 my Magic Missile specialist had his own set of d4s in blue. It is the happy way to do it.

It says "A Dart deals 1d4+1" not "each dart deals the same 1d4+1"

My table used to play with an odd variant of Magic Missile: At first level, 1d4 darts, each dealing 1d6-2 damage -- since everyone has a ton of D6 on hand, these were rolled for each dart, with results less than 3 removed. When cast levelled up, you just increase the number of D6's you roll to determine number of darts. In this way, despite still being Autohit, it is never "auto damage", and while it can launch a bewildering number of darts, potentially dealing more damage than the rules as written, the spell's lack of "dependable high damage" promoted use of other more interesting attacks spells at higher levels. This would, I realize, do nothing to lessen the dominance of Magic Missile in the hands of an Evocation specialist, but I'd leave that to others to consider.

How would it work with the Hex spell? Do I get to add AD6 to each missile or only one missile if all the missiles hit the same target.

QUESTION: How does a Goblins Fury of the small work with Magic Missle. Does the goblins lvl apply to the spell. So a lvl 20 Goblin does it do 1d4 + 21 or does it do 1d4 + 1 abd the target takes just an additional 20 damage?

Good job guys!

My party laughed when I told them that I was going to run a special kobold oneshot where I was going to see how long they'd last before dying. They couldn't comprehend kobolds ever being a danger to a high level character. What they didn't know was a vast majority of my little scaled friends were level 1 sorcerers and they all knew magic missile. It was a grind fest but they left the table with a brand new appreciation for the level one spell piloted by the most mundane cannon fodder.

I prefer to roll three separate d4s. The way I see it, the whole point of Magic Missile is its reliability. It's a 100% guaranteed hit. It's a rarely-resisted damage type. You can distribute the missiles across multiple targets rather than wasting damage potential on some nearly-dead kobold. Each missile gets that +1 damage added on to create a solid base minimum no matter what you roll. And finally, there's a reason the spell is broken up into three smaller missiles of a d4 each rather than one big d12 missile: it's an attempt to average out the damage and avoid extreme highs or lows. If you roll the d4s separately, you have the potential to get anything from 6-15 damage, but the odds pull you toward decent middle-of-the-road values (with a vanishingly tiny 1.5% chance of rolling minimum or maximum). It's the game's way of saying "There are no promises in a game about rolling dice, but to the extent we can give you a safe bet, this is it." That's the unique role Magic Missile plays, in contrast to most other spells. If you only roll a d4 once and apply it to all three missiles, you can only ever roll 6, 9, 12, or 15 total damage. What happened to everything in between? To me, it seems strangely artificial and unintuitive that a wizard casting three separate missiles would have the precise focus to give each missile be *exact* same potency with no variance, but has such lack of control over what that potency is that it's an enormous 1/4 shot that it could be either the worst possible or the best possible. I just don't think those kinds of odds are in line with what this spell seems to be about, nor with the game in general.

Sure rules constructs our world, but the other part of the game is to roleplay; I wish you would have mentioned that angle. Role one d4: "How powerful are your projectiles" Role for every bolt: "How much of an impact does each missile have" I would suggest this to the player; "Which RP do you like more?"

Hey, I paid good money for all those dice, I'm gonna use 'em!!!😉

I envision it as the damage being the amount of magical energy the caster musters/imbues into the spell divided evenly between the missiles materialized.

I have always rolled each missile separetly

I'mma be honest, I learned something new today. I can see both sides of the coin as well cause rolling more dice is ALWAYS fun. I also imagine it like, your a ship and these missiles fly out of you anime style and strike your foe. A "low" roll is them moving at the last second and it grazing them (still technically 'hitting", but flavored otherwise) and a high roll slamming into them hard. I can also see that rolling one die is also "easier" than rolling multiple dice constantly. Rolling a d4 once and then multiplying it to the entire roll is easier than needing to gather other peoples pointy pyramids and going from there. Personally, I'd probably still roll individual dice. Reason being is because its more fun, but also because this is, as far as I know, the ONLY spell in which this applies to. Its not like a Fireball is "roll a D6 and times it by 8", cause then that just changes the whole dynamic of rolling. So for consistency sake I'll probably go with rolling for each

Fun convo with Meagan! Would love to see more!

You see, when I started out, in 1992, the _Player's Handbook_ said (page 136): _"Use of the magic missile spell creates up to five missiles of magical energy (...) Against creatures, each missile inflicts 1d4 + 1 points of damage."_ The plain reading of the spell implied that one rolls once per missile, and I think that this interpretation of "roll a single die and use it for all missiles" started with 5th Edition (In 3e you had to designate targets before rolling for damage, which implies that every target got a different damage die; I didn't play 4th). Still, if the DM agrees, my Magic Missile-focused Wizard would have no problem with rolling only once.

What’s RAW on hexblades curse prof bonus to dmg on each dart, or only once?

More of this please 🙏

You roll once for area of effect damage spells as he read fireball and flame strike. Magic Missile is individual darts, each one doing 1d4+1. "You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several." It doesn't say "the darts do 1d4+1 x 3". It says "A dart does 1d4+1". Everything in the description is read as singular.

The issue with spells like Magic Missile is because of the way the spell is written making it seem like each dart does their own 1d4+1 damage and the clarification on how it really works is elsewhere in the PHB that many tend to overlook. Simple fix would have been to put in the spell description itself... “Roll damage (1d4+1) only once and apply the result to each dart cast.” Or something similar. No need to clarify elsewhere in another area that people may overlook. But again, if the DM, you can make these types of spells do damage however you desire. Just be consistent. Thanks for the video.

Well, I’m convinced, especially considering the evocation wizard.

You mentioned empowered evocation, but there's also Hexblade's Curse which also adds flat damage to a single roll. So Evoker 10/Hexblade 1 casts magic missile at 1d4+ 1 + 5 (int) + 4 (prof) for a guaranteed 11 damage per missile. Burning those 5th level spell slots from Wizard 10 is 77-105 Force damage with no to hit or save which means you're out damaging disintegrate (a 6th level spell dealing 50-100) at the high and low end of the damage scale without even factoring in the dex save.

You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.

If you have 5 darts, then by rolling 1d4 and multiplying it by the number of darts you will do 10, 15, 20, or 25 damage, which obviously gives you a 25% chance to roll max damage, so overall a much higher average damage over time since 50% of the time you will be doing 75%-100% possible damage.

This makes me curious, would this also apply to spells like Eldritch Blast and Scorching Ray? It's separate attack rolls for each ray on both spells, but technically it sounds like they all happen once. Is damage done with a single roll and applied to all the attack rolls? I have always done it as a damage roll with each attack roll, but this has me curious now.

Well. This would explain why Magic Missile is a first-level spell and Eldritch Blast is a cantrip. (psssst: it's because magic missile doesn't require a "to hit" roll even though each can, potentially, have the caster's primary attribute benefit added to it) ;) And it *IS* weird that one of the oldest games in the D&D universe can become so ridiculously controversial. Honestly, this wouldn't have mattered at all in 1E, 2E, or 3.xE, but now that we have Empowered Evocation, how the rules are interpreted can make a *HUGE* difference. Take THAT, warlocks!! ;) :P :D

I never knew there was another way other than a single die roll for all of the missiles. its fun to hear about other methods and house rules

I’m not sure I understand, does that mean at first lvl on one target, it does 15 damage max?

Wow, for the first episode of this format, you really came out swinging! I'm with you, I find figuring out RAW for this fascinating. And OMG: That evoker buff!!

I'm amazed they talked about so much about this spell and didn't mentioned its best use for greater levels: force 3 concentration saves for a meager lvl 1 slot. Hell, if you know the target doesn't have shield on him, you can go nuts and throw a lvl 3 magic missle and make him roll 5 saves.

The best reason I think is that rolling one die means every target takes the same damage, which is easy and fast and not metagamey. When you roll for each missile, you end up with "this monster gets this die, this monster gets this other die, this one gets another die...", which is pretty meta.

oooooo I love the potion bottle lamps!!!

I understand how it can speed things up, counting up 11d4+11 can take a little time, but I don't think I've ever had a player who wanted to roll less dice.

I really like those glowing potions in the shelf. Did you buy them or is there some kind of tutorial on how to make them? :)

I generally only care about "Rules as written" when it involves specific abilities that require prior training (feats, class levels, ect). If I took a specific feat and someone without it (or a similar feature) was able to copy the abilities it gave me, I'd be extremely pissed because I wasted my ability score improvement.

I always thought you'd roll a d4 for each missile, but rolling the d4 only once is interesting as it makes the spell a lot more variable. You have a 25% chance to deal only 6 damage, but also a 25% chance of doing 15 damage. You get a lot less middle of the road results and I think that's more interesting to me. I might use that rule!

I mean, okay, Jeremy Crawford says it's 'X'. This isn't the first dumb rule call he's made (GIVE ME BACK MY WARLORD!). He's wrong.

this was delightful... i actually like how this was explained and the buff from evo wizard is really nice especially if you roll min on your d4

Interesting, but as said it's up to each DM to determine how they choose to have things work, I'll stick with rolling 1d4+1 per dart

For me it comes down to whether you prefer a swingy result that can be very low or very high (rolling a 1 or 4 and applying it to all missiles) or you prefer to have results tend toward the mean (roll each missile's damage). If you always use a greataxe because you love the chance of getting a 12 despite the chance of getting a 1, then you'll probably lobby for rolling once. If you prefer greatsword so you can nudge your results closer to that dependable 7, then your wizard will want to roll separately. I personally don't care, so I'd probably leave it up to my players. I am thinking about taking the debate into the game world, and having both versions available as separate spells and having wizards in the world debating which is better.

Does this apply to scorching ray as well?

I played since the white box, and yes, we knew about this rule back then. But we still rolled 1d4 for each missile, BUT as a caviot, we only played small groups of 4-8 players normally and rarely had more than 1 mage. So, 1 player rolling a dice for each missile was never an issue. Plus, over the years, several decades, actually, it never proved unbalanced as getting all high or low rolls seemed rare.

That roll once for damage seems to be about area of effect. Not separate instances of a spell. What about scorching Ray it has three rays? Or melf’s minute meteor? The bonus from evoker would more likely be on one SPELL not one PORTION of the spell.

I have always thought of the darts as ammunition, which would indicate a roll for each. But contemplating them as a SINGLE casting of a spell that then hits multiple targets, like a non-linear lightning bolt, would certainly support the "roll once and multiply if multiple darts hit". Functionally, if you want to reduce your chances of minimizing your damage, use a fistful of dice, but you will likely never maximize your roll that way. :)

That metal stein with the red ampersand is awesome.

Here I thought you were going to discuss Tim Kask's channel on the actual origin of magic missile on how a player (I think Kask) had to badger Gary to give wizards something (magic missile) because they only had one spell at level 1, no cantrips just a dagger or sling.