Hello, I’m a trans man and I read most of that 34 page doc accusing Vivzie in the description because I have no life, and I want to give my thoughts on it (this comment will be LONG) 4 things: first, the doc mostly covers transphobia against trans men so keep that in mind, and second, I’m obviously only one trans man so my word shouldn’t be taken as the gospel, third, I will be quoting the doc, and fourth, please do not harass Vivzie because of what I say here The first section is of some messages, presumably by Vivizie, that do express common types of transphobia towards trans men and some towards trans people in general; that people who claim to be trans don’t try to “look like” the the gender they say they are, that trans people are just claiming so to be trendy (“its just something iv noticed MOST of the ones i see are white girls, who claim to be like, trans men, but like, they dont, at all try, n are obv trenders”), that trans men are transitioning primarily/only to gain male privilege (“like i legit dont understand, ist like, why do you strive to be what you hate LOLOL is it cuz you think they are teh most privledge group??? n you wanna be that?”), that trans men hate being women and transition to escape it, and just lack pride in being women (“their like ashamed of being female, but then hey are like th loudest feminists i SO wanna be like s ?? why arent you just being proud to be female? whas wrong with it buddy”) All of this is obviously wrong; transition takes a while for many so looking more like their gender can take time, people who say they are trans are simply exploring their gender and there’s more because being trans is known by more people, and, especially, the reason trans men transition is often for themselves and to feel comfortable in their bodies, and trans men do not feel shame for being women/female, because they aren’t women-they’re men who are asserting that they are men-though may come to actually resent that if others refuse to acknowledge them as men (such as by claiming that they are just ashamed of being women cough cough). Now, what is said here is transphobic. By not trusting people who say they are trans men, it also feeds into the idea that trans men lack autonomy, cannot be trusted to know themselves, and were forced into being trans by an outside force, so you just shouldn’t believe them and should tell them they’re just women who hate being women. This comes up a lot around trans men and it’s very annoying. However, I frankly do not necessarily believe that the person who said this was Vivzie, as I find their proof lacking (they proved she had the same profile picture at the time and that the screenshots weren’t edited). So: what was said here is transphobic but I need more proof than what was provided to believe it’s Vivzie saying this and not some imposter. Like more screenshots of her clearly and explicitly having the same train of thought In the second part, it claims Vivzie repeatedly misgendered someone she knew used they/them, and also said she believed being trans was “incredibly rare, VALID as hell, but rare”. The latter is just a weird statement and comes across as downplaying trans people’s experiences. For the former, misgendering people is obviously transphobic and shouldn’t be done. Other screenshots imply that the reason the presumed Vivzie would do this was because she saw the person in question as just a girl who claimed to be nonbinary because they wanted to feel special or something like that, which does unfortunately happen a lot to afab nonbinary people. Now, this one does have a corroborating source of the person who was misgendered venting to someone else, which I appreciate. Again, though, I do still take caution in believing the person saying this is actually Vivzie because I do not feel the doc provides enough proof. The third part is a similar boat; this section is about Vivzie apparently making a character explicitly based on an old associate who was a trans man, but they fell out and that character is an explicitly female and overtly feminine (they look like a scene girl from 2008 for reference), and that person obviously found that insulting. I would agree that this would be insulting to a trans man, as I would find that rather insulting. Now, I do believe that Vivzie drew the proved image, but I do need more evidence to prove that this actually happened. The fourth part is the section that uses the falsified reviews mentioned in the video, so I’m hesitant to believe it outright and so won’t cover it. The fifth part is about transmasc characters in Helluva Boss. Basically, imps in Helluva have sexual dimorphism (males and females have clear physical differences), where female imps have primarily black horns with thin white stripes, and male imps have thicker white stripes, making their horns a more even black/white split. Included is a concept image of Millie’s siblings (topically made by Erin Frost), where two of them are clearly intended to be trans, one a trans man and the other a trans woman (Sallie Mae). So far, there’s no stated in-universe way for an imp to change what their horns look like (not sure if there’s such a way myself). A later screenshot of the character in the show shows him with the thicker white stripes, implying that he became cis at some point in the development process. Next, it goes over the first transmasc character in the show, an imp in the episode “Queen Bee”, as shown from his horns. It compares him to Sallie Mae, arguing that she is shown to be competent and attractive, while this guy is dismissed immediately by Blitzo, basically arguing that he is treated as lesser by a narrative because he is a trans man. It also points out that Sallie Mae’s voice actress is a trans woman, while the trans man has no credited voice actor (or name), and theorizes that he was voiced by Edward Bosco, who is a cis man, since he’s under “additional voices” in the credits. Now, I find the existence of these claims to be more concrete since they’re in the show and in concept art. It does kinda suck to lose a trans man character as part of a main character’s family (and I would prefer a prominent trans man’s design to be larger and more muscular, rather than small and thin like Erin Frost designed them, but that’s a personal preference and there’s definitely scrawny trans men out there), it’s more of something that you just gotta be disappointed with and ask for another prominent character in my opinion. For this unnamed trans man, I haven’t watched the episode, so I’m not 100% sure how he’s treated, though I would say the dismissal isn’t inherently bad. (It definitely is one of those things that comes across as worse if you believe the rest of the doc though, so I see why they included it.) I also imagine that Edward voiced him because of his small role, rather than out of malice to avoid hiring a trans man voice actor. Having more prominent trans men characters and having them voiced by trans men would certainly be nice, and while it’s sad that it hasn’t happened yet, it’s better to encourage it for later in the series. To be frank, while having the most concrete proof of actually happening, I do find these claims to be the weakest, since they only really seem very bad with the context of the full doc, which I already don’t believe most of. The last part is a rebuttals/concerns section and closing thoughts, and I don’t feel it’s necessary to cover it here. This was long as hell, so to summarize: the examples of transphobia are legitimate types of transphobia that are often thrown at trans men specifically, and should not be done or said by anybody, frankly. However, I feel that the evidence that points towards these being real things Vivzie said, rather than some impersonator or edited images, is weak, so I don’t quite believe the document. To prove this point, I would also like proof that the accounts screenshotted were actually Vivzie’s at the time of taking the screenshot, more corroborating proof for claims, and, especially, more screenshots of Vivzie saying/doing similar things from the past 2 months or so, to prove she still has the same views. Including screenshots in the same timeframe of attempts to educate her on the matter and her refusing to listen would also be helpful as proof. I do not currently believe that Vivzie is transphobic towards trans men/other afab people based on the doc.

I'm somewhat active in the helluva boss fandom and one thing I've gotta say is that there would not be nearly as much drama if Viv just got tf off of twitter. She gets defensive and replies to basically every negative tweet about the show, which then gives it more exposure, so then the whole fandom start a debate about whatever the tweet was about. It's exhausting.

What I don't like is how some of these people use Vivz inability to take criticism as proof that she did all the shit she's been accused of when it's not. Vivzie should be able to take criticism better I agree but just because she can't doesnt mean she's now this horrible person that they paint her as with little to no substantial proof. I also hate that especially on twitter she's painted in this light by clueless people who are spreading this misinformation without even fully knowing the situation themselves. It's such a mess it's insane.

I can understand not liking a person, but going as far as to spread false reviews about their studio is another level

I remember I was looking for a discord server to find some folks to talk about whatever, and one of the rules in one I found was something like "No Vivziepop defenders". I didnt know anything about any drama so I asked about it, as all I knew is that she made an adult show, and the server owner went off about her. I mentioned how I didn't get how her mistakes were tbat bad, and this grown adult went OFF on me about how evil and terrible she was, so that kinda shows how crazy people will get over petty stuff

I feel like nowadays, internet drama is just mind numbing to me. False allegations and true allegations. Sometimes i wish i can just turn off people mouth shut on the internet.

There’s always controversy drama when comes viziepop spidelhouse that I can’t keep up with tbh

I saw a Tweet that said Helluva Boss is the new Steven Universe, and they’re right. All the people who hate the show do CinemaSins levels of nitpicking or complain that the queer people and women aren’t written “the right way.” Vizipop is treated like the worst human to have ever existed the same way Rebecca Sugar was called a nazi sympathizer and a pedophile during the peak of the anti-Steven Universe trend. Antis justified their hatered by saying the fanbase is cringe, as if all other shows that are popular with kids don’t have their vocal minority of cringy overly passionate people. Then there are the classic anti-feminists and homophobes who hate the show just because there are queer people and women in it at all, and hide their hatred through the guise of critique. As a Steven Universe fan who saw the show as it was airing and saw the anti trend happen in real time, seeing the same thing happen to Helluva Boss greatly upsets me.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Vivziepop's work. I really do. Hell, both Hazbin and Helluva inspired me to keep going with my own indie project. But, I just can't stand pointless drama in this community. There's a reason why I stay out of situations like this because I refuse to get involved. I repeat, I flat-out refuse. Hope you are able to take a good rest after this. Take care, Apollo.

The ani callout situation is weird to me because while I do believe them saying that they made a bunch of fake reviews (like why would spindlehorse fearmonger their crew with Erin Frost), it’s weird to me how people insist that ALL bad reviews towards the studio are fake now, and only made by one individual person with a Vivziepop vendetta. Just makes me think of when fans just jumped to assume that the only reason Lackadaisy rejected Vivziepop’s payment was simply because of Ze being rude to her, as if one petty online interaction would be enough to reject 5k from someone.

Tampering with that spreadsheet is unforgiveable imo. The whole thing works on the assumption and trust that people only submit their genuine own experiences on there, if that trust is broken too much then the whole worksheet- and all the many hours of moderating and editing that went into it- is made worthless. If many people have problems while working at spindlehorse, it will show up in the spreadsheet. For it to show up in the way intended is impactful, to tamper with the worksheet is undermining your own argument. Edit: I forgot to thank you for taking the time to look into this whole thing, it's much appreciated and I hope that next week is a lot better for you!

The main problem I have with this whole drama is the lack of nuance these people have. While I don't always agree with how Vivziepop handles certain things and she has made her fair share of mistakes, she's human and like all of us can make mistakes, but certain people seem to not like her and the team just because their show got popular so they think its ok to harass and spread misinformation about them Not only that but the false accusations could be potentially harmful for those who do work at certain animation studios that do treat their animators poorly since some may think they are lying

Hello I'm a trans person and I know why she was called transphobic for a really dumb reason, basically a cis woman was claiming that showing Sally May to have a bulge was sexualizing trans people even though its more of a celebration of trans women and overall I appreciated what she did, not all trans people are completely uncomfortable with themselves

I think one reason why I distanced myself from any project under Vivziepop is because of the drama surrounding it

I'm glad this video went for a more levelheaded look than jumping on the drama horse. I do think there is a weird issue fandoms/reviewers online have when it comes to indie animation where the standard is almost higher workplace-wise and if someone has a bad time working on a project than that means that the industry has been abusive from the start. It reminds of that era of youtube reviewers where people would accuse writers of Family Guy being bad people because they made a cartoon they didn't like.

Even before I became an official fan or properly seen the HH pilot (I don't think HB was released yet) I've heard of some of the stupid dramas surrounding Vivziepop or SpindleHorse. I'm sick of the ongoing hatemob, especially over allegations which were already addressed or debunked years ago! Yes, there were things Vivzie did that I didn't like or approve of, but the blacklash she constantly gets is too far. If doxxing her over her comment on Scott Cawthon wasn't enough for the haters (I didn't like it either at the time, but my god!), nothing will be.

Personally I don’t like most things Vivzie pop has made, but I’m not going to spread misinformation about the studio who made it??? Like if you don’t like it, you don’t like it. That doesn’t mean you have to try and cancel her every time she does anything 💀

You deserve to rest you're doing great as it is❤

I've largely ignored any Vivziepop drama news, simply because people online of that type of community can't handle themselves like proper adults and do their due diligence before pointing fingers at anyone. I'm glad you went over everything so level headed. The animation industry in Burbank and Glendale is already tough to get into, especially into the bigger companies that are highly demanding. Having children interfere with the livelihood of others aside their target and not realizing it is repugnantly negligent.

There are so many things that people have claimed Viv is and like every time you try and ask them for evidence some how they stop replying and go quiet

You deserve some rest and relaxation ❤

I literally saw someone claim Viv ‘supported a pro-war artist’ because she retweeted their work. The ‘proof’ that they have was that the artist had a Russian flag in her bio (she’s literally Russian) and that she… retweeted current events about Ukraine, Russia, and war. I’m just tired of people who don’t like Viv just grasping at nothing. You’re allowed to not like her or her work, but you don’t get to go spread lies. Almost every situation is just SILLY.

As a fan of both, this is just a normal day at this point. I’ll be honest, Viv is a big inspiration for me, she’s one of the reason I wanna make my own show someday, but that doesn’t mean she’s perfect, we all ain’t perfect, but that doesn’t mean people can spread misinformation about her. At this point, I ignore most drama around here and just watch something until the drama dies down, I don’t know if that’s okay to do, but hey, be your own person am I right.

Kittensneeze said that they were working part time at spindle horse and that it was a pleasant experience❤

My reaction is that: I can believe both sides here. One person can have a bad experience while others had a good one. Toxic work environments depend greatly upon the point of view.

From what I've seen the most aggressive to these kind controversies that have very little evidence or just hearsay are young people who haven't even held their first job yet and don't have the life experience to know what they're even getting mad about.

As someone who is very neutral on the whole situation I’ve found it EXTREMELY difficult to not only find any concrete proof that Vivziepop is a terrible person, but also find proof she ISNT. A majority of videos and Reddit posts are either regurgitated hate threads spreading the same claims and “evidence”, or tirades about how vivzie is an angel and people just want to hate for no reason. I can’t figure out how I’m supposed to feel because none of the info I’m getting has any basis to it, it’s just hearsay and biases. There’s very little resources that provide an unbiased explanation of the situation and controversies, so I’m grateful for this one. It seems nobody’s actually interested in changing anyone’s opinions, they just want to preach to the choir of people who already share their views which is entirely unhelpful to people like me who want the info so they can form the opinion on their own.

Thank you so much for giving some updates to this situation!!! I’ve been wondering what was toning on for awhile but didn’t know where to look 😬

Viv's been the target of crazy internet drama since before Hazbin Hotel, at this point you'd think it would just be white noise to her.

i can’t be asked to keep up with this drama 😴

Take some time for a well deserved break! You do great work, and taking care of yourself is just as important.

It’s a tricky spot to find one self in. There has been much discourse about the animation scene and not all of it has been made in good faith. Sometimes we just have to trust in the idea we don’t understand the situation. A difficult pill to swallow I’m aware but certainly a necessary one. I trust that a lot of people are trying to be honest about the accusations but I also understand how emotions can slant our interpretation of such events. Hyperbolic language is often used when stressed. From what I can tell about the situation is that tensions are high and a clear view of what happened or is happening is unlikely to be made available anytime soon. I want to believe Vivziepop is facilitating a stable work environment for her team but I also want any potential victims to receive justice. For now I will contend that I live with the understanding that the accusations aren’t substantive enough to condemn viv, but I’m not going to dogpile the accusers either. It seems that the industry is just a tough gig from my perspective. My judgment isn’t perfect so I am content to reserve my criticism until things clear up. Regardless of stance I wish you all a pleasant day and implore you to try not to overwork yourselves. Cheers. Sincerely -The Void

You hit the nail on the head. There have been so many fake dramas surrounding Vivzie that I am now hesitant to believe anything I hear about her and the studio. This is especially true when some of the dramas just seem petty.

Thank you for your work! We don’t have enough sensible content creators anymore, but we desperately need each we get! And with wonderful art, a lovely voice, and cute accent to top it off, I’m rather appreciative that you’re someone who can reason and acts for the good of it.

I completely agree with you fionapollo. Honestly these whole situations feel like some kind of crazy merry-go-round.

Theres so much shit online about vivzie and many polarizing opinions I honestly don't know what to think of her anymore- I think there has also been some recent shit for her supposedly reposting a supporter of the russian-ukraine war which honestly i've been trying to dig into that as well. good video as always, fiona! i always love your videos

As an outsider, I started disliking Helluva and Hazbin, I think Viv is just a bit too reactionary? She reacts very strongly and very emotionally to any sort of critisismLast I saw of her was her getting super mad about (and misrepresenting) criticism about her weird Bee-Fox-Thing. Tbh its mostly just unprofessional but I cant really fault her for it, who wouldnt get upset about their passion project getting put down, but it also means that she gives the reactions people hope for.

What I like about your videos is how you take neither side and simply give your honest and truthful opinion like you’re critical, not overly mean like some critics are

The document on Vivziepop’s transphobia was made by a completely different person from the ani callout guy, they even condemned them for trying to cause more discourse and spread misinformation.

honestly, speaking as someone that despises her work and think they lack quality in the story and art, I do not think Vivizie is a bad person or a bad artist she has problens taking criticism, and even seen unable to learn how to make a proper adult cartoon, she isn't a monster or uncapable of doing good entretaiment. I feel more disapointment over her work, because I see potential, but I don't see enough care towards it. I feel bad people attack her as a person, instead of focusing on the work she does, but at the end of the day I can only hope for the best of people involved

I sometimes get the feeling that people are just looking for excuses to hate Vivzie, just because they don't like her work. Like, I'm not a Helluva Boss or Hazbin fan, but I see so many people blasting the show for being morally wrong, usually for some very arbitrary reason or because they think Vivzie is a bad person, backing that up with incredibly flimsy evidence. I think people need to remember that sometimes, you can just not like a piece of media. You don't have to have some kind of moral justification for it.

I hope you have a better time going forward. I enjoy your videos, and I like your animation in these videos.

I've met Viv, I found her to be a rather pleasant person, and it's nothing new when people have a bad experience that ends in them not working at a company anymore for them to try to drag the company. I've seen that countless times.I hate to be the bearer of bad news but If you're working for a certain group your identity as a person is low man on the totem poll, also you can comment on a thing being transphobic or not, you don't have to be trans for that kind of thing, and it's what makes free speech a good thing. There's even trans folks who will tell you that. I realize that may seem like a hot take, but I would like to think that trans people are not all singularly minded and have a diversity of thought.

Can't wait for an actual commentary youtuber do this again, without ayylmao as source, because yikes, i don't even hate HH or hb but, there's so much people there with a shitty experience with Viv, maybe when izzy does a video in the future ya'll can actually believe it

This is why the fandom of Vivzie is so protective there seems to be a community of people that just a mad hate boner for her

8:22 that homestuck jumpscare nearly made me spit out my gatorade

I was active in the hazbin and helluva boss community hearing these allegations. I didn't understand what the drama was in the first place due to no concrete info or evidence that I saw. Most of the time i just saw major toxicity throughout social media (Mainly Twitter). I'm glad I stumbled upon this video for a wider depth of understanding what this situation is and the impact it has given to animation as a whole.

The evidence I'd want to hear about, having been up close to actual cases where creative work gets abusive, would be along the lines of: 1. Leader alludes to "keeping reciepts". 2. There is a public history of leader engaging with and leading virtue signalling Greek Choruses. 3. Information flows in the project are deliberately blocked. 4. A personal entourage appears around leader in public appearances. 5. Events(parties, gatherings, etc.) are conducted with the intent of transgressing personal boundaries. 6. Information about project funds and how they are being used is not up for discussion. 7. Project members suddenly learn of a contractual obligation with a third party that there has been no prior discussion about. 8. Credit and blame are visibly shifted around by leader's statements. Those are the red flags that indicate that in some number of months to years, an explosion of allegations will come out about an exploitative tyrant. But there's a lack of credibility to most of these sources talking about Vivzie that means that for anyone on the outside, it's like, "well, who knows". Often someone who's just anxious and terminally online, or who has learned some of these abuser tactics as a defensive measure, will look a bit like the profile, but it's coming from a different place. And fandom has a tendency to work itself up into an in-group/out-group frenzy and blow things way out of proportion when the leader is seen engaging heatedly. I've already spent too much time thinking about it considering that I only watched the pilots of these shows. I liked the animation but the stories and characters weren't doing it for me.

Take a break, my dude. Chillax and rest, and take it easy

Damn, sucks your week was hard, I hope it gets better, Finona. It's been a while since I heard anything from the Vizi drama. It's funny to see nothing really advanced, seemingly like it really does feel like the dramas still in the same place it started. I think that's what makes me believe there's nothing to the allegations in general. But thx for the vid to listen to on ma day off. Hope you're doing better once again.

Since I know you opted to not cover the transphobia allegations, I went ahead and read the google doc you linked, and I’ll admit that some of the evidence definitely has some weight behind it, what with Vivzie’s comments about trans men, and even her saying that they should ‘ *be proud to be female* ‘, even reading her comments were pretty uncomfortable for me, even as a cis man. her stink with KenDraws and her spitefully disregarding their non-binary status, the way she handled her beef with dollcreep (another trans person), and also the misgendering in spindlehorse. I’m a bit unsure about the character design for millie’s brother though since character designs can go through multiple different design choices (which probably includes their bio/backstory). that isn’t uncommon for a creative project, especially a cartoon. Though, maybe I could be wrong on that. But otherwise, yeah. We still have some pretty solid evidence of Vivzie pretty much willing to disregard a trans/non-binary persons identity, especially if on the off chance they slip up or does something to set her off. Trans people dont just stop being trans because you don’t like them, after all. Vivziepop definitely does need to answer for that in a public twitter post, rather than just hand waving it. Otherwise the evidence for the other allegations were definitely falsified and were made to drag a company through the mud. Given that the transphobia seems to be the only thing that were substantiated, that’s probably not a good sign for the other claims that were initially made. The animation studio reviews being falsified is just that much of an example. There have been a number of situations online where someone will accuse the other of being horrible, only for a good chunk of the allegations being revealed to be untrue, or at least taking miniscule things and blowing them up to be worse than they are. I don’t think I can stress that if your claims against another person are unfounded, that means that less people who are actually being victimized will be able to get justice. And even situations involving actual abuse in the workplace will just be ignored or taken less seriously because of it. Even when it came to the exchanges between Erin frost and other team members, the context of those screenshots just wasn’t sufficient evidence of abuse. That’s pretty much what I think right now. I’m probably gonna need to sleep soon.

I feel like this is what happens when validity culture is used in the wrong way, and accidentally encourages people with anxiety to view others negatively instead of encouraging them to understand it's okay to be anxious. Yes, your FEELINGS are valid, that doesn't mean they're the TRUTH

Hi, Fionapollo and welcome back.

I just want to thank you so much for the levelheadedness of this video. I saw the community post the other day where you mentioned this being the next covered topic and found some of the comments ridiculous, jumping to the conclusion that you were about rail on how awful Vivzie is. There's a huge lack of critical thinking in this entire situation and it's getting to the point that just seeing/hearing her name makes me roll my eyes. Also, in regards to the transphobia, that's been around a while. The only evidence I've ever seen of it has been related to one of the characters in Hazbin Hotel, and it can pretty much be summed up as "person sent to hell for being a terrible person happens to be trans-coded" and people have decided that's transphobic rather than understanding that queer representation does not need to be nor should it be all positive. That's an unrealistic expectation and it's frankly demeaning to the LGBTQ+ community that we have the expectation to all be perfect so we don't offend others by being flawed human beings.

My main issue is that it feels like so many of the complaints are 2nd hand and coming from people who feel they have been jaded (theres probably a better way to phrase this than accusing them all with the same bush, but, I am dumb. Sorry), and its muddying the waters between exaggeration, truth and out right lies. Like I know there was an animator at spindle horse who got called out to be a groomer and disappeared (if they got fired or are still on the team, I have no idea), but I've never seen their name come up in any of the callouts, and it feels so odd becuase she woud be such an easy target. But now I'm in the predicament with a double edged sword. I cant give a name with out risking people running rampent with it to validate their lies, and no body has a reason to belive me becuase I cant give proof

This is mostly out of my wheelhouse so it's hard for me to insightfully comment on the main event here (at least with anything I'd feel comfortable saying on a public youtube comments section :D) as opposed to just nodding in support. So I'll just do the nodding thing. Sorry you're in a bad way-delving into this stuff would drive anyone mad, I bet. Hope you're able to self-care to a better state after this!

Love the shows, I don't use twitter. Hate drama, it's useless especially online like come on ppl. Hope for the best for the studio and the shows

I looked through the Google doc claiming that Vivziepop is transphobic, and most of the screenshots are either of normal jokey non-transphobic conversations, or obviously faked ones.

Tbh I’m just gonna think nothing of it until this finally ends. this is obviously just blown out of proportion

Hey Fionapollo. Hope you'll have a wonderful weekend. Now on the video, from a law perspective. There's isn't enough evidence i see on this video to suggest such allegations are true. We need some concrete evidence for it. Plus, regardless of what the public opinion on this doesn't matter. Whether there's bad work environment or just a simple case of miscommunication is up to the court of law to decide. Still, it's sad the spreadsheet got integrity is now in question. Something like that is very useful for the work environment. Especially in Japan with their shadow companies.

So I just want to point out that there were others that were affected by Vivziepop actions: Kendraws and Kedikatzen (who didn't work for Viv, but was still affected by her negatively). Kendraws use to work for and with Vivziepop for the Hazbin pilot. They met in 2012 when Viv was 19/20 years old. They helped with the ideas that were featured in the pilot as well as helped with concept art for Cherri Bomb. When Ken asked for credit for his involvement, it caused a bad escalation between the two that involve lawyers between the two. The conversation about the credit lasted a good while until the terms were finally agreed. Ken gotten credit in the additional writing. Unfortunately, this wasn't over. Viv then went out to defame and attempted to blacklist Ken, saying their a monster, abuser, and predator. She even goes as far as said that they groomed her when she was a kid (despite the fact they met when Viv would be in their 19/20). All the while misgendering Ken and discrediting that they are ace. Side note: In 2015, here was a post that accused (emphasize on accused) Ken of grooming a minor. The victim themselves came out with evidence, but as of right now I cannot find it. The only evidence that I could that had the victim's claims is Ken's defense post about the claims. Kedikatzen have also come out and said that they used to went to the same college with the victim. Even though they have little interaction with one another, Kedi (from the surface level they heard from other people) say that the victim "did have a tendency to blow a lot up and make mountains out of molehills." In my personal opinion, due to my experience of seeing victims of making claims against someone on the internet, only for them to go into hiding when a defense post was made, I'm gonna believed Ken is innocent until proven guilty. I only pointing this out because Viv (who stood by Ken's side when this allegation came out), have brought up this allegation when attempting to defame and blacklist Ken. Kedikatzen have also come out with her bad experience with Vivziepop. Kedi used to ran a webcomic (that had now been discontinued) was bullied by Vivziepop. Kedi made her side of her story, and claiming that all she wanted was an apology by Viv and ensured that Viv would work on her behavior. After that she deleted her personal accounts and took a break from the internet. When she came back she was prepare to leave her experience behind her, but due to seeing others coming forward about Viv's actions, she restated her claims to show that it wasn't an isolated incident and that it was a pattern. Recently on Bluesky, Viv accused Kedi was her stalker and have been harrasing her, friends, and family. When question if she evidence, Viv only says "I do. but that's for my lawyers, not for you. You don't want to believe me fine, but I know the truth. They have been attacking and harassing me for years by name with no evidence. I have the evidence and it's to protect me." Kedi made a tumblr post stating her side of the story. She says she had only made multiple attempts to contact Viv on public social media, and attempted to contact Viv's sister (who role was to communicate Viv's victims for Viv) once. She was blocked by both Viv and her sister on Twitter. Kedi decided to leave it at that. The only time when she interacted with Viv's friends is only on twitter whenever they made public actions against other people. And if blocked by said friends, Kedi does not make an attempt to reengaged with them. If you want more information on their situation, then I suggest to contact Kedi on twitter since she has more experience in this situation than I do. also I just want to point out, that just because the document have use the reviews claims for the transphobia, I don't think it's fair to disregard all of it's evidence. Especially if some of those evidence have existed before the fake reviews came and came with actual screenshots. Criticize and disregard the people who made the false claims, but don't disregard the actual victim's claim in the process.

I am not willing to outright deny any potential abuse that may be going on at Spindlehorse, but lying and making fake reviews is always wrong and if you do it, you're in the wrong by default. Viv may be a terrible employer, and you'd still be a bad person for making fake reviews for the company. If you think you're helping victims, you're not. You're only making it harder for them to come out. Just because you echo the sentiments of ex employees and use them for your fake reviews doesn't mean you're helping them or doing any favors. All you are doing is hurting the chances of anyone believing them under the pretense of it being false information. Lying never helps anyone.

The creative space, especially concerning minorities seems ripe with purity testing. I guess it comes with the increased acceptance, that parts of the "old guard" end up as gatekeepers even though the general development is in the direction they fought for all along. Also, donkey depressions are present everywhere

I'm reading 1st screenshot (03:12) and... yeah, those messages are passive-agressive and rude. Even if they're "common" in a high-stress environment it's the wrong way to handle a conversation. The idea we had with Vivzie was that Hazbin was a passion project where finally people were treated right because it was not from a big, abusive corporation. But if Vivzie is treating her team exactly the same as those corporation, then... this is not inspiring, just sad.

I'm sorry that you had a bad week, and that more negativity on the internet didn't help cases at all. I hope that whatever is getting you down passes soon, and that you get through it in a smooth manner.

Anymore I just try to stay out of the drama, especially anything that happens on the cesspool of twitter. However, I did catch some of the Viv stuff when it first started going down and to me a lot of it feels like Viv became the punching bag for a lot of peoples anger because her project let people see that working in the animation industry isn't just all fun and games that let you sit around and make art all day with your buddies. It is just like any other big corporation, but has a little, artsy bow on top. It is a cut throat industry that has people who will step all over your feelings if it means they can get ahead. It has always been like this and so many people want to act like it is Viv who personally made it that way as soon as she was able to get her foot in the door and do something with her personal project

I do question how some people can watch family Guy and south Park which has a lot of transphobic jokes and say hey that's ok but when you see vivziepop make transphobic jokes and it's wrong? Please a lot of cartoons for adults have transphobic jokes and no one comes for them but do at vivziepop?

I do not care about internet drama. Unless there is undeniable proof then I do not care.

I think regardless if you in the work place or not give basically respect and professionalism SHOULD be expected. The "what did you expect" mentality is just excuse for people to be garbage to co-workers

Creating false negative reviews of "working at" the studio is LOW LOW. Like what the fuck??

I’m just going to ignore the drama and let the courts do their thing.

for the first situation you discussed I must say that as someone who talks very formally and doesn't like padding out things with praise I see nothing wrong with it, especially in a work environment

I really appreciate you videos. I've been working in animation for 33 years, and I feel you always have interesting and refreshing standpoints on the industry. Thanks for always putting out fair and informative views.

The spillover went onto glassdoor too, which is even more public. I usually hesitate to believe this sort of drama without solid evidence... I follow an artist who was targeted by a KF smear campaign - I'm getting all too used to these sorts of patterns.

I wanna leave this fandom at this point…….

Speaking as a transmasc person: 1-The thing about Sallie Mae and her brother it's really overblown and what Made me find Erin suspicious. The guy it's just a background character, it's not transphobia if he is changed to cis, and it could be relevant later on. Sallie having sexual merch isn't really an issue if there's merch of her that isn't sexualized, and it is weird than a cis woman would be the first one to act like she is transphobic 2-The discord logs should have the date somewhere to be considered. And no, the Moe pfp it's not enough proof, social media normally shows your latest pfp everywhere 3-The only things that hold water are the ones about Dollcreep and Ken. Even then, some parts of the screenshots are censored, which is weird. And no, I won't mention the concept artist since they never gave any screenshots, and it didn't looked like an acussation but more of a vent

I've found out something that could change Viv's life. She's going to be at Glitch X😃 She'll be under the protection of SMG4.

Seriously if you need to make up and fake things to make someone look evil, maybe they aren't that evil?? Or at least that's how feel. I'm really confused about what's real what's fake here too

I don't like her works but bullying her is not ok no one deserves to be harassed

11:43 What are you talking about here?? Genuinely curious??🤨

My honest opinion I think viziepop just employed people that were just terrible workers that have that whole entire work mentality things have to be my way if not I'm just going to make you look like a bad person because I'm the one being wrong you're not and then on top of that a lot of fans need to chill on certain expectations on what they want to see come out of the series and another thing they don't understand is not so easy to get these episodes of either it's a lot of hard work it's a lot of money when it comes to the budget and there's a lot of things that go into making decision making for the storyboarding and all that stuff I'm saying this is somebody that eventually wants to start my own series because viziepop expired me to realize that if she can make it off of KZfaq and you know eventually start somewhere down the line as a young adult being able to start up a really amazing series from the pilot of hazbin hotel to eventually hell of a boss I feel that I can do the same thingbut the point I'm making is this as for the heaters I feel that viziepop really just needs to ignore them because she's better than that I get you know these two series are her babies and she wants to defend them and she wants to defend the people that work alongside her cuz they're amazing people which I'm pretty sure they really are especially the voice of both moksi & blitz oh everybody on the show actually so I don't blame viziepop for you no defending you know anybody that you know all these haters and panzer basically taking their anger out on and hatred

Are there maybe valid criticisms about Viv and about HB/HBH? Sure, there likely are. From what I’ve heard, Viv is a rather flawed person as most of us are and there’s some issues in her show (ie. Mainly male focused, lack of female characterization, limited/unclear character designs.) Hell you could just say you’re not a fan of her or her works and that’s fine. You’re not obligated to like it. *BUT* to go as far as to make stuff up or make huge reaches about her actions is downright pathetic. It’s irritating to me that people will go as far as to try make someone seem like they’re some kind of monster all because they don’t like them. Honestly what happened to “don’t like, don’t interact?”

Also, you are doing great. Its a pleasure to tune in and listen😊

i have no shade against her tho i do feel like she should probably stay quiet on somethings and not go into some stuff all the time. in some ways she does create drama with her posts but thats about it

Hey Apollo, I really appreciate your honest opinion on what working in animation is like. do you have any strategies you use to help keep yourself on track of your work that you recommend for someone else who would be interested in animation/graphic arts fields? Thanks!

I just watched a vid on all of this a few days ago and the whole thing seemed like a nothing burger. It just looked like people throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Whole thing comes off as ‘I hate your a bigger artist than me, stop being an artist.’ edit for smelling mistake.

This is going to be a long comment, and I recommend you read all of it, so bear with me. I've HATED the drama with Viv since I heard about it, and it's also starting to spill over to Tracy too. The fans of both HB and Lackadaisy have done horrible stuff and started drama with these two and their projects, trying to paint them as horrible people, going as far as putting personal info out there, and harassing supporters of either work are aggravating. I'm not a movie/TV show guy, but I see Viv and Tracy as human beings who do stuff that I don't agree with, but I believe they are good people. Obviously, I'm biased, but if I learned anything since April with the iilluminaughtii (who I regrettably supported) and the Colleen Ballinger situation, is that influencers are not your friends. And some of the stuff people are doing (fans/haters) in these situations is Creepshow Art behavior. Obnoxious, thinking the world revolves around them, starting drama for the sake of producing content or none at all, and not thinking this could lead to something else. Obviously, Creepshow Art (Shannon), iilluminaughtii (Blair), and Colleen are far worse than Viv or Tracy, but it's the same behavior I've noticed, especially their fans. Hell, do you know the channel illymation? She made a 2-part video on her abusive ex-boyfriend that made her channel blow up, and Viv actually commented on her second vid and praised her, and Illy like the comment! It's fine if you don't like Viv, Tracy, or anyone else, but you have to not jump to conclusions and form your own opinion. Sorry if you got confused or it feels disjointed or incoherent, I needed to get it out since I have felt this since April. And if you don't know who Creepshow Art, iilluminaughtii, or Colleen Ballinger are, then let it stay that way.

I hope you have better weeks ahead of you

Apologies but do you have a link to your discord server?

i never really liked viv, especially since she drew blaire white some time ago and afaik never apologised for it for context, blaire white is a known transphobic trans woman who continually shits on non-binary people some of the shit uhh the one person?? said is definitely transphobic (speaking as a trans man here), and if the terf-y screenies from the doc are real they should 100% get kicked off the internet bc we do not need this alleged jk rowling kinnie in the community

Is this the bullshit people are going on about when Glitch Productions announced Vivziepop was going to be a guest creator at Glitch X? Twitter of all things?!? (Yes I know it’s called X now but I honestly don’t give a damn cause X sounds like an adult video site)

Yup, I feel the same as you. After false accusation after false accusation I just couldn't take it seriously anymore, because no matter what she does, she will always be the public enemy number 1. She can't donate to another studio because she is attacked, she can't donate to charity because she is attacked, she can't like art by a Russian artist because she is considered a supporter of the war. At this point, these haters just want anything to hate her. Seriously, there was this one time when a random person said they were homophobic for featuring Moxxie in drag in one of the recent episodes, but that person also said he was gay when he is actually Bisexual, meaning this person clearly didn't watch the show! And if they did, they would know that Moxxie has always been doing drag since very early on in the show! Plus, helluva Boss has trans characters, they are not main characters, they are just background characters including Milly's sister. They are small details, but at the same time you can see that they are trans because of their hair and horns. In other words, not only is she not transphobic, she also knew how to involve trans details in the designs! Seriously, only the Queen Bee episode has, like, two characters who are speculated to be trans in the same scene!

I think people need to clam tf down, and stop acting as if a personal opinion/personal way you took the tone of an online message is valid evidence. We see it so much nowadays, and aLOT of that was used here. Criticize Viv for what you have solid, concrete proof of- She's the creator of a massive show online, YEA. Criticism IS valid. But gawdayum, people need to stop taking every little petty instance of some sort of wrong doing, and acting as if it's just as bad as any actual major claims they have on her. Like tossing in "She makes bad jokes" along side something like "I was abused and demeaned in the workplace" just doesn't fit. It's like you have so little legit stuff you got pile on every little thing you don't personally like. (This being seen alot more in the fandom/by FANS, not directly this person making claims atm)

I really hope this BS doesn't hurt Hazbin Hotel

out of curiosity is there a link to the spreadsheet mentioned around

My guess is that younger audiences are attracted to her show. I know a lot of people feel disgusted for obvious reasons about the show and I get you. But it’s not a daily responsibility to find meaning in excusing everyone from watching the show. We are people. We make mistakes. But if you find excuses to continue hating the show. But just as a random stranger like me that’s giving you a fair warning. I don’t get the reason why you’re hating it. Move along, because if you do a bit of breathing and look at the mirror your conscious thoughts will remind you “what caused myself to end up like this person?” You know what I mean? In summary: If you’re displeased by the art but you don’t want to leave it alone without feedback. Make sure it’s constructive criticism. Not just Criticism.

Jumping on the helluva boss toxic thunder stain. Weeeeee!

What’s exsausting about all of this is that people will look at the accusations but when something like what happened to Squidder, Ralpheille ||, or Kira (the one that made those cupcake animations) gets brought up no one bats an eye. They just look at what’s clearly false because it makes Vivziepop look more innocent than she actually is. It’s genuinely annoying and I pray that we one day get a completely unbiased, fact checked video on the subject matter that isn’t just mostly false accusations or “proof without evidence” over and over again because there is actually info on Vivziepop’s behavior being horrible. People just don’t care to look into it or it gets ignored because of the info being covered up by false accusations or Vivziepop stans. It’s exhausting.

I just don't understand why the entire project and 'fandom' became incessantly horny as well. I understand that sex sells and shipping is powerful, but it takes up so much space.

What’s beyond me is the criticism the show gets for language, actions, etc………it’s hell, it’s literally hell. Hell is not meant to be a good place where everyone gets what they want and people speak the way you expect them to. I mean…how else do you explain hell? Hell cannot be politically correct because it’s LITERALLY hell!!