Adam is in charge of the exterminations but there’s no reason to believe he speaks for all the higher ups in heaven.

"there is no redemption" Sir pentious: are you mocking me??

Charlie: asks for redemption for sinners [Plays the clip of Deery saying "Yeah, no" from the Cherubs episode of Helluva Boss]

I think the reason that Charlie is still going through with the hotel is because it's literally the only option for saving demons from the extermination. Like, angels might all believe that demons are inherently evil and can never change, and any attempt to prove them wrong will be brushed aside or outright ignored, but... what exactly is Charlie supposed to do? Just roll over and accept the way the world is? Her entire character is centered around *not* accepting the way the world is. She may be banging her head against a brick wall with the hotel, and she might even know that she is, but it's not in her nature to give up hope for a better tomorrow. Also, she only knows for certain that Adam and Lute want sinners to die en masse. For all she knows, there are a few angels that would be sympathetic to her cause. From what I've gathered, Adam and the angelic army are the only ones who *actually* ever go to Hell, so the majority of angels might not even know much about Hell. They could very well be constantly fed the narrative that demons are inherently evil and can't change, and they have no way to know otherwise without going to Hell and seeing that demons are (sometimes) capable of doing good, and why in the world would they even bother to do that when they're bombarded with Heaven's propaganda? EDIT: Well hey look at who wound up being 100% correct

One rejection doesn’t mean giving up. If she proves it works, she might plead her case again to a different higher angel that might listen. Or she’s continuing because the others are enjoying their time together.

Have you considered that this is coming from ADAM, the head of the Exterminators, of all people? A literal "Holier than Thou" type of person who can do unspeakable acts in the name of his God, and is probably doing everything he can to prevent them from getting out in any way, shape, or form, including redemption

No longer a weirdo, you ascended to Enthusiast status, nice

Just a quickie while I set up the Adam video, also been working on a few things behind the scenes so hope you enjoy this small little thing :)

Dude, it's just Adam who says it through a corny song, that's the point, he's a prick and unreliable. There's more to this, it's not denying the premise.

The newer episodes confirm them at Adam is not the complete end all deal.

I can say that it is one of the most successful cartoon series that has been broadcast in the last 3-4 years, with its story, jokes, music and unique style.

Except not really...? All this song proves is that Adam is a literal "Holier than thou" kind of person who thinks he knows everything... I mean, this episode literally gives us several blatant examples of Angels being wrong... Lute: "Angels don't make mistakes." Mistaken Angels: Lucifer, the Cherubs, and oh would you look at that: the Angels in this very scene. Adam: "Yeah, I've never made a mistake in my fuckin' life." Also Adam: _Ate some Forbidden Fruit_ Hell, the Angels didn't even know that they could die, so they were wrong and mistaken about that too...

adam does whatever he wants, i wouldnt take his song as a proof that theres no redemption, as long as it isnt said by any angel of a higher rank

it's less about the fact that they don't know it's that they're going to try and prove them wrong and of course the commander of The exorcist would think that.

Yeah now the premise is Charley trying to prove that sinners can be redeemed to heaven so they’ll let the sinners in. Also we only saw Adam’s view on things, the rest of heaven could be all for it

Is there a “big guy?” Because in Charlie’s story, she said the angels expanded the universe, and it was the angels who cast out Lucifer. She didn’t even mention how the angels came to be. Even if capital G God is in this universe, it doesn’t seem like he’s the one in control of Heaven.

and then they confirmed that redemption IS possible

Welp this shit aged horribly

Wouldn't the show be about making heaven reconsider this idea? This isn't bad writing just kinda obvious Disney esque writing. (MC gets told they can't reach their goal but they'll do it anyway)

This aged well

This aged like milk

Man Hazbin Hotel has been going through a bunch of crap now. First the Verbalase stuff and now this. This series has gone through a lot

I guess you're no longer a TrueLocalWeirdo. Now you're understood as an eccentric LocalEnthusisast

Sir Pentious: ha no

What do you mean exactly? Everyone already believes in no redemption, every sinner laughs at the idea of it, and Adam just reconfirms the status-quo that we knew from the pilot. Charlie is clearly trying to prove that sinners can change, and if that change can be recognized by a few people in heaven, I'm sure there are actually still a bunch of good people there, some revolution can possibly happen. Or maybe some greater conspiracy overturned, like redemption is totally a thing, but since no-one believes in it nobody, at least publicly, tries. How many times have we had a story where the premise is doing what is considered impossible?

I think the resaon why it doesn't feel pointless, even after Adam song, is because he is such a dick. He is Gate Keeping (haha, pun), but he not the only one in charge. So it still feels hopeful, she just needs to talk to someone else other then the shit head.

Adam, we don't know any of the other angels out there and adam. I don't consider him an angel. He was a human soul at once.

I don’t think Adam is the best source for if redemption is truly impossible, I think this was done intentionally though because while he does have a high rank (i.e. he’s their army’s general) he still was created by the true higher ups & spouts all sorts of hedonistic crap that could end up biting him in the back later. Right now we have the statements he’s made but we needs wait for the system in heaven to role around in better detail to see how difficult it truly is to achieve what is needed narratively.

There is one higher up that we don't know the opinion of: God.

I disagree with it killing the premise of the story because the premise never has never been „redemption of demons“ and is more like „lets watch this garbagefire“. Charlie is already the only character that believes in the idea and she is probably delusional. Her getting told by the head guy in charge in killing demons that there is no redemption, kind of just adds to the mountain of opposition. Maybe they will get interactions with some „good angel“ some time, but considering the established nature of heaven, I believe its more likely they will escape its grasp, or get left alone somehow. No hate, I just disagree.

this aged like spoiled milk

Ngl I thought we bout to touch on the other Hazbin Hotel situation lmao

If you're in Hell to begin with, especially sinners, it means you _really_ fucked up.

I did have a thought that maybe good and evil go beyond the angels control. And they have no actual authority on who gets into heaven. That was just a thought though. I was also thinking that the hotel wasn’t meant to be the main focus of the story. Kinda like how in helluva boss I.M.P is side story.

One option could be that they plan to show that change is possible in sinners and try using that to convince the angels. Probably at the end it'll be Charlie's dad that steps up and has God see it. Plus remember that Viv said she took a lot of inspiration of bojack horseman. So most likely the ending won't be 100% everyone is happy and gets what the viewer wanted them to anyways. In the end it may just be that the 1st floor of hell has 2 areas. The sinners and the redeemed.

Isn't the purpose that the goal is pointless, (I don't mean in the perspective of Charlie, but of the audience). Like a hero fighting a boss he can't win against for the purpose of creating stakes? I think making the purpose pointless makes the purpose itself interesting, seeing someone go insane trying to do something undoable. Like someone saying, "you can't lift that." Then that guy proceeds to train to lift what ever it was. It seems that destroying the premise at the very start is very intentional and not a mistake by the author. It doesn't seem like a mistake someone would make, especially how quickly it comes up and how clearly as well.

The super sad thing is the show, and even the fandom doesn’t even believe in redemption

I dont think that Adam it a reliable source of information....

Actually☝️🤓

Emily doesn't hate Demons

Thank you for acknowledging MatPat's overly criticized video.

I feel like we're taking what Adam said too much at face value here. It's too soon in the series to just throw in the towel and admit that redemption is impossible in this universe just because he said so. And also, keep in mind that Vivziepop is doing her own interpretation of Heaven and Hell in the show. We still have four more episodes of this season left, so we need to wait to see what Vivziepop has in store for the characters and the world they live in.

I could be wrong but maybe the hotel will be the prototype for purgatory? I don't recall ever hearing it mentioned in either show, but I also haven't read the comics or watched most of the streams when the show was being developed. I tend to avoid a lot of reviews/controversy videos because I just want to enjoy the shows. I'm not Christian so I could be wrong on this too, but I'm pretty sure Dante made up purgatory. At least that's what the footnotes said when I was reading the poem. I don't think Adam would be the end all be all for Charlie's idea. He's probably still sore about losing the garden of Eden and wants eternal revenge. He doesn't let that slip, of course, but it's gotta suck seeing your descendants end up in Hell forever. He's been around long enough to become jaded. The purge could even be seen as a mercy for them and I'm curious to see where they end up after dying again. Purgatory wouldn't be an option for a large majority of souls already in hell unless there's a limbo circle/area. I think Dante made that up too when he thought about souls that weren't evil but not Christian. Hazbin Hotel probably won't get into that exactly because only allowing good Christians into heaven would cause a big uproar, so they'll probably have a group of souls just kind of stuck because they were overall neutral. Equally bad and good, not deserving of rest or misery. Maybe the show will have it as an underground group of people who don't get why they're there and don't want to give in to their surroundings. They'll see the hotel and find refuge there. I really like the show so far but I agree, the premise was basically thrown out the window once Adam said no. The purge may end up being for overpopulation and purgatory could be a barrier to protect heaven from an uprising. Dante described it as a huge mountain that souls had to climb over several years to "work off" their sins. It could take hundreds of years. Based on that, those who belong in hell could be stuck in an endless loop or at least long enough for an army to stop them entirely. I have a hard time believing anyone aside from neutral people could get out of hell and go to purgatory since there are overlords who enjoy their power and some people in life gloated over their atrocities, like serial killers. Hazbin's hell just seems like earth but a bit worse. I am also going off of what I've seen in Helluva Boss, where it is like earth for the hellborn. The overpopulation thing never really made sense to me because both heaven and hell should in theory be able to house all of humanity. Despite all the questions I have, I still enjoy the show so far. Overall, I'm just happy to see Vivziepop and her team make it and I'm excited to see where the series goes.

Ok for one if you just believe that the story you hear in the beginning is true then you obviously didn’t pay attention to it. The story is incredibly one sided because of course it is if you are at war with someone then you will tell everyone that you are the good guy, and the one you are at war with is evil, also Adam is not one of the main angle so maybe the others are different for example we haven’t heard of god in this universe yet perhaps he thinks that people can be redeemed. They can also do what you suggest and make a plot twist in which someone gets redeemed.

This is about hell population You know they could just like use magic to expand hell land to. Demons kill to

Istg, this show is gonna end with a generic "Everyone rises against heaven" storyline

First of all I'll say this when Charlie in episode one was saying that every year they sent down a extermination and when she stated so he'll wouldn't rise against them I think it's both to maintain a certain population in hell and so to maintain that power and what i think charlie is trying to do is convince the angels to take in the new reformed sinners.

I don't think the hotel is pointless, sure Adam says no redemption and all that because they have to agree with that, but they also haven't seen proof that some people are truly remorseful and want to change their ways

Cause hell is forever whether you like it or not. Fire song tho

Maybe this show does have potential and not like the mess helluva boss is Good, this was far more interesting in the first place anyway

I mean, if people from hell become angels/winners/heaven inhabitants, that still would make heaven maintain its power Also, the options are try the hotel and see if they can convince someone, or fight against the angels and die because if an overlord struggled to kill one angel there’s no way they can kill thousands unless Lucifer himself decides to help

this vid doesnt add up anymore

I bet the twist is gonna be Adam isnt even an angel. He is another Hell overlord, and simply was made as Heaven's ambassador to Hell at best. First off, Adam was human, second he is a dick, third of all he did the greatest sin (eat the apple) why he'd be in heaven, let alone an angel is baffling in Hazbin Hotel's world. No, he is the supreme overlord of Hell whose entourage might be angels, but likely his own created demons in order to keep his rule and kill any demons that might get powerful enough to stop him. He doesnt know jack shit about redemption, and thus said theres no way. Also his design is very in line with demon design, just with a bright cloth over it. And Charlie is continuing to try because she cant lose hope in ber vision. She genuinely believes with genuine remorse, and/or enough demons joining in, Heaven HAS to recognize them as reformed, and earning redemption. Im gonna call it, its her girlfriend who is gonna be the one to truly show redemption and earn a spot in heaven, but decides to stay and help charlie, and possibly complete final trial and become an angel herself, or something. It would also likely explain Alastor's goal in this, as probably one of the more powerful ddmon overlords he likely saw through Adam's ruse and wishes to supplant him in power.

And then along cam sir penstious

Very Nice ❤️❤️❤️

I love these new videos! Keep it up!

I feel like ur too quick to trust the angels on this; we have no clue how heaven operates. Just because some angels don't like the idea of sinners being redeemed, doesn't mean it can't happen. The whole system could be entirely hands off and as soon as someone becomes good enough, they can be sent up Sidenote: I get her talking to adam about her plan could be seen as her trying to get heavens permission to send sinners up but I don't think that's the case I think it's more her reaching out and asking heaven to help her and support her redemption plan so she can get the resources she needs

Her hotel solves the problem even if it is about reducing hells power since if sinners go to heaven instead of dying that still reduces hells power and increases heavens power in a humane way. So in Charlies mind if the sinners can prove that they are good enough for heaven they can still enter it. Similarly yes extermination is entertainment for the exorcist who only make up a small fraction of heavens population if the higher ups in heaven start to think redeeming sinners is a good way to solve the problem of hells growing power than Adam will have to suck it. The premise is not dead and Charlie although naive and overly optimistic her plan is not impossible in theory.

Prepare to get reacted by Nux claiming how negative you are! 😅 But fr I find it weird how nobody has an issue with rushed story and premise

State by Adam. We are getting to heaven this season then I think Charlie gonna make a case for hotel. This season I'd going to be her fight to get the hotel up and running. Getting by adam

Someone does not watch anime as half their shows are ppl fighting a system that refuses to accept them only to end with the mc doing the impossible

Eh i disagree, they're not destorying the premise. Adam never said we're never accepting demons but instead demons can not be redeemed which Charlie is now trying to prove wrong.

I still understand that a good point of the hotel was to rehabilitate sinners and just make hell a lil bit better. Most of the issues in hell are mostly because everyone is an AH so less AHs less suffering

Wait if Adam and I mean The Adam is leading these Angels, then where the Fam at, I could see someone like Abel might help or just to get closure with his bro Cain who probably is one of the first residents of hell for well murder.

They forgot that nobody in Pride is even caring in Pilot or Addict, this power struggle thing is just a pointless retcon and I didnt come for that, I came for the Hotel working to have Sinners of Pride enter to stay and do stuff to get redeemed and enter Heavan. The moment they did a bait and switch, the moment I completely stopped caring and have no interest in this show, literally dont give a fxck about any Power Struggles between Hell and Heavan.

Well I say Charlie can redeem the people of hell won't it be fun to watch and see which side is right and the other wrong

Of course there is redemption, just like all of Christian theology you need to operate on faith and prove to God that you are Worthy, despite if a sh*theel is telling you there is no chance.

What the Hell

I think what people don’t get is that the claim of “no redemption” is coming from Adam, the leader of the exorcists and all around douchebag. Of course that he, out of any angels, would say “ohh there’s no redemption for y’all, we just wanna kill every sinner because they’re below us” when this show could be Charlie’s journey of proving him and heaven wrong. And yes there are the cherubs in Helluva who were “nice” people and didn’t let C.H.E.R.U.B. back into heaven, but like I said, it could be a “prove them wrong” kinda story. We’ll have to wait and see I guess

i think ther eis a way for heaven to agree with charlie the arch angels morespecyfyclly lucyfers twin brother micheal there are many arch angels and aperentlly micheal is a twin brother of lucyfer so i think he would be the most likelly to help out charlie beacause he still loves his brother lucy its just a simple headcanon but is there is a seraphim then why shouldnt there be archangels and khowing that lucyfer was an archangel himself he would probably be able to confince one or more of the brothers and tell me who would be easier to confince a loving twin or a not interested younger / older brother that dispise you

We now have no reason to care now, they made it clear that anything they do is pointless and that any arc to happen will feel empty and no changes will happen. Unless all of hell is willing to change their lives, which is unlikely

Alastor and Niffty are carrying the show right now

It's almost like the premise of the show is literally called a framing device to get the series started towards a goal that the series itself will work towards. Seriously, wtf are you being so harsh toward the show when you haven't seen all of it and don't know how it will play out? This is the equivalent of someone asking questions during the movie when the movie is literally going to answer and address the questions.

Lost its hype

you have no proof that redemption

Bad take, really really bad take. Yeah we should have known from the start that heaven has a no redemption policy. It doesnt bother me that they said no to charlie because shes not going to accept a no and will push back no matter how impossible it seems. She is going to do the impossible and convince heaven itself that they are wrong

Adam a Human who became a Angel: Commits all Seven Sins in under Seven Minutes whilst repeatedly violating Thou Shalt Not Kill after ascending to Heaven by living a “virtuous life”. God: Gives Demons the Courage and Ability to start killing Angels because of they’re sheer anger and disappointment at the hypocrisy of they’re servants in Heavens.

I only ever saw the pilot but couldn't Charlie and co. be hoping to rustle some feathers in Heaven by proving that the hotel can work? Get SOMEONE to realize that some demons can be redeemed?