The Ingenue Trope: Innocent, Naive and On Her Way Out

Рет қаралды 77,519

Күн бұрын

With her youthful charm and naivete, the ingénue is a long-time Hollywood staple… but in recent years, she seems to be disappearing. So is this trope really on the way out because it no longer works in the modern day, or is it just changing with the times? A French term meaning “an innocent or unsophisticated young woman,” ‘Ingenue’ was historically applied to women in plays or films who were naive, youthful, and pretty much always virgins. Thankfully today, it feels like we’re seeing this ‘ingenue’ trajectory far less often, both on and off screen. Here’s our take on Hollywood’s Ingenue Trope - and why it’s seemingly disappeared, thanks to a wave of outspoken, young actresses, evolving roles for women, and changing societal values.
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CHAPTERS
00:00 The tropes limiting history
02:13 How she evolved over time
06:49 How real women got the label
11:10 How Hollywood kicked the trope
CREDITS
Executive Producers: Debra Minoff & Susannah McCullough
Chief Creative Director: Susannah McCullough
Associate Producer: Tyler Allen
Writer: Mary Rindlesbach
Narrator: Jessica Babineaux
Video Editor: Michael Gawronski

Пікірлер: 126

@thetake Жыл бұрын

WATCH MORE: The pretty girl trope speaks to a sense of "pretty privilege", but how can that actaully be disadvantageous? Here's our TAKE: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l69yqZWfysnGmIk.html

@MarshalMarrs Жыл бұрын

Hot actresses are one of the sources of my sex addiction. 😣😖😢😭

@acsaudiodramas Жыл бұрын

Disney's Rapunzel was a typical Ingenue. She grew up locked away from the world with Gothel's lies and her own rich imagination. And she helped the leading man to findhimself and grow. It's nice she was allowed to grow herself in the story and following TV show

@ajstudios9210 Жыл бұрын

Yeah, if you can call her development in the TV series "growth". She learns to take charge more as a leader, and is arguably a better leader than her father was. But there are still things she did that made her an annoying character later on and rather pushy and condescending. 😒

@nataliapanfichi9933 2 ай бұрын

@@ajstudios9210 the Disney version of snow white is also an angenue because she is girly, childish, naive, shy, as angelically pure as a virgen nun and gives off to sweet and nice for this sinful world vibes.

@alyssamitchell8191 Жыл бұрын

The ingenue is Hollywood’s original manic pixie dream girl.

@daisybuchanan8205 Жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more

@Alehzinhah 11 ай бұрын

She just wasn't crazy 🤣, only stupid (in most cases)

@trinaq Жыл бұрын

Sandy from "Grease" starts off as your typical ingenue, innocent and easily led, prior to her dramatic makeover. It was obviously supposed to be a spin on "Bad Bay changes thanks to the love of a good woman" trope prevalent in 50's teen movies, but hasn't really held up as well in modern years.

@gabrielleduplessis7388 Жыл бұрын

I don’t want this trope to be completely out of fashion. Like me, there are people that are naive and innocent, but agree that it is not their whole character. I wish what was explored more was why they are this way. My mom eased me into stuff. She waited until I was ready and mature to talk about certain topics. However, my dad wanted me to remain innocent, but the more my parents did not talk to me about stuff, the more naive I was. By the way, my parents are not bad parents. They just worry about me. And my mom understands more now about what to tell me and what not to. It wasn’t just them. My peers and classmates were like that too. They were always afraid to swear in front of me or talk about sex and other touchy topics. This is what makes people naive, especially women at times. I also look young for my age which adds to this. While and these characters don’t need to be experts at everything, we shouldn’t be unknowledgeable either. I also hate when naivete is played off as a joke when it is sad at times. It also should not be seen as being unintelligent either. There is a difference.

@madisonj5136 Жыл бұрын

Yeah I totally agree. Ugh I hate that people think we need kid gloves all the time

@unsightedmelodies6801 Жыл бұрын

I can't count how many times people have apologized for swearing in front of me because I look younger than my age and am disabled. I can usually undercut it after the kneejerk sorry by saying "what the hell for" if it's too irksome.

@voightkampffchamp Жыл бұрын

The problem is that it's sexualized

@gabrielleduplessis7388 Жыл бұрын

@@voightkampffchamp yeah, i forgot about that or repressed it. I also agree. I hate that part of it. They are a conquest and there is a intersectional component of virginity with being naive as well. It is not necessary. I guess I just want an accurate representation of it.

@teruhashipleasenocrimefav5815 8 ай бұрын

The bigs problem is sexualization of ingenuity

@emiliananixon9353 Жыл бұрын

Whenever I think of this trope I always think of Cher from clueless. Obviously she was naive in a different way because financially she didn’t have to think about certain things but she always had such a childlike feel to her. Idk maybe it’s just me and how I remembered the movie.

@madisonj5136 Жыл бұрын

More modern interpretation of the ingenue

@nataliaalfonso2662 Жыл бұрын

She’s Emma

@nataliaalfonso2662 Жыл бұрын

@@madisonj5136well I mean…. She’s literally jane Austen’s Emma

@emiliananixon9353 Жыл бұрын

@@nataliaalfonso2662 I always forget it’s a modern retelling lol!

@Foxygirl558 Жыл бұрын

I think of Britney Spears, sexy, catholic, southern school girl at age 17 years old. And all those early interviews in 1999.

@MariaFromTheInternet Жыл бұрын

I feel like the concept is still kicking around out there in Hollywood, actresses like Sydney Sweeney come to mind. When you mentioned Scarlett Johansson was just 17 years old in Lost in Translation, I actually had to rewind and do a quick Google search. That was a horrifying realization. It recontextualizes my view of the entire film, especially the opening scene with her in her underwear.

@BloodyMary74 Жыл бұрын

I was schocked too. She played a high school graduate in Ghost World.

@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 Жыл бұрын

The Ingenue is the reason we pile hate on female characters in general. Middle aged ingenues seem to be stereotypical Midwestern housewives. Kamala from Never Have I Ever, imo, is a good example of an ingenue who grows, matures, and gains more knowledge and backbone.

@vins1979 Жыл бұрын

I love that show!!!

@nuhbudi Жыл бұрын

that’s such a good example

@trinaq Жыл бұрын

Agreed, I loved Kamala's character evolution over the course of the series, and how she still remained the same nice girl she'd always been, she just grew up more.

@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 Жыл бұрын

@@trinaq She and Devi built each other up.

@nataliapanfichi9933 2 ай бұрын

@@nuhbudianother sorta angenue is Katie/Cady from mean girls who has been homeschooled for years so when she tries to act like a normal highshoooler she comes off as a weirdo who has no idea what normal is like but is just playing along. Like some other characters make unuendoes , sex jokes or even ask her if she knows basic name brands and she's like wtf is this language¿?

@rainy905 Жыл бұрын

The Ingenue Trope is prevalent in the East in modern times. you can see it in some of their media. Anime, K-pop other forms of media still has this trope.

@younglingmaid2526 11 ай бұрын

It sucks how these folks have to remain good people of the right morals for their fans when in reality, they’re human like everyone else. We’re all full of flaws. It must be exhausting to keep up this character.

@tinkergnomad Жыл бұрын

Dear gawd. Miley Cyrus going from Disney child star into her musical career embodies this so hard.

@jennys.2440 Жыл бұрын

This is something I've always been, I feel, and I always will be, externally and internally, I love people who seem/are childlike/youthful, no matter their age, gender, etc.

@marissawilson9460 Жыл бұрын

I’m a musical theatre performer and I regularly play Ingenue characters. There can be so much depth to them depending on the roll. It also depends on the interpretation of the character. I agree that some exist to just look pretty, but others truly are the main character of their story and go through as much or sometimes even more change than their male counterparts. A prime example of this is Cinderella in “Into The Woods”

@LadyLilith1015 Жыл бұрын

I consider the ingenue the maiden archetype of the femenine: young, naive, beautiful, inexperienced and sometimes unaware of her own beauty. Think about Persephone. I'm honestly the perfect personification of this trope

@kiseee1774 Жыл бұрын

persephone is a bad example of this because her as a goddess is much more matured and fierce than pop culture interpretations lead on. in the abduction myth she was carried off without consent at first and kept up her refusal, but its a story less about the personality and more of the story’s symbolism of death and rebirth. the greek word for maiden had nothing much to do with her being naive and innocent, it was an epithet for persephone because persephone was her role as bringer of destruction/death (or “to destroy”) and therefor considered very dangerous to say since she was dreadful. sorry i get really pressed with persephone into question since how ancient greeks worshipped and viewed her was completely different than pop culture ideas. 💀

@kelleyceccato7025 Жыл бұрын

In describing the ingenue of classic Hollywood, this video keeps showing clips of Scarlett O'Hara. As anyone who has actually seen Gone With the Wind knows, she is anything BUT an ingenue. Shots of Olivia deHavilland's Melanie would have been more on point. When an ingenue is well-written, she grows beyond her early naivete rather than being frozen there. She enters or gets thrown into situations where she must show bravery and resourcefulness and proves up to the task. A look at Mary Pickford's best film, Sparrows (1926), shows this in spades; while she fits the ingenue trope by being young and innocent, she's also a hero, a rescuer, as she leads a band of orphans in their escape from a work farm. There is some value in characters like these, even today. But they lose me when Innocence crosses the line into Ignorance and when "not very bright, I guess" is coded as part of a woman's appeal.

@trinaq Жыл бұрын

I can thank Rachel from Glee for introducing me to this archetype in the very first episode. Although she may compare herself to an ingenue, she's far from the type herself.

@irondragonmaiden Жыл бұрын

Thing of it is, the naive aspect can be a good character flaw for the character to either suffer consequences from for drama OR that s/he has to outgrow for character development. That would be a lot more meaningful to the character than the Ingenue who is only "special" because "high standard men" are attracted to her/love her and would destroy people for her sake (which, yeah, it's what makes characters like Elena Gilbert unbearable and I cheered when she finally died). Want to have a naive everyman? That can work for either sex for different reasons and gives the character a real flaw. The Ingenue? Only works if there's at least one "high status man" (AKA handsome, powerful, and/or rich) who is attracted to them.

@elinat2414 Жыл бұрын

I do a little bit of amateur musical theatre. And as a young-ish soprano, I am always only considered for ingenue roles. This trope is still very much alive and well in musical theatre. No musical with a romance plot/subplot is complete without an ingenue that sings really pretty but often has the personality of a crisp bread...often because she isn't given the space in the show to display more depth, eg Cosette in Les Miserables, who has like 3 scenes in the whole 3 hour show.

@embodyempathyemily8138 8 ай бұрын

It seems that historically, the ingenue (currently equal parts lover and maiden), was simplified down to virginal maiden. Marilyn Monroe integrated both the innocence of the maiden with the sex appeal of the lover, informing most ever ingenue to follow.

@kayliemcintosh7841 Жыл бұрын

I had no idea there was a word for this. This has been my identity the majority of my life. Very interesting.

@Lilas.Duveteux 10 ай бұрын

I actually like ingenues as characters, and I like some rather old-fashioned ideals. Let girls be soft, virginal, innocent and sweet.

@outinsider Жыл бұрын

I agree with this assessment, but I do want to add an interesting change in the last decade of the 2010s- Lupita Nyong'o, whose mainstream feature film debut as Patsy in 12 Years A Slave in which she won a Best Supporting Actress Oscar, was talked about as an ingenue during that award season. It was a very interesting dialogue. First, because the film accurately portrayed U.S. slavery as a human trafficking institution maintained by rape and kidnapping and Lupita was singled out for her encapsulating performance. Second, because the narrative from the reviews on talked about how there is a bright future ahead of her, and while Lupita is a woman of color in Hollywood where being Black still makes it harder for projects to present themselves as opportunities, the framing of Lupita as an ingenue was key towards her victory at the Oscars. Thirdly, Lupita wasn't naive in her interviews, showing her intelligence, wit, and tact in presenting herself, at the same time challenging the ingenue in real life while being one in a film of heavy weight. As Hollywood confronts its white supremacy practices, Lupita has forged a career well considering the circumstances and amplified by that Oscar win. I would say that Lupita Nyong'o both was an ingenue and the challenge to the system of ingenue in Hollywood at the same time.

@sophiejohnston5390 Жыл бұрын

It's super evident in the music industry as well with artists like Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears who are forced to go into the extreme side of being a "seductress." And i reckon it's because as a society, we like to categorise people into certain boxes e.g. the madonna whore complex.

@marcellacassab4331 Жыл бұрын

I haven't even watched this video yet, but I'm growing kind of tired of "this kind of person/personality/flaw is no longer acceptable to write because modern day politics." As a writer it's starting to feel almost claustrophobic. The range of acceptable character architypes growing narrower everyday. Especially if you want to write diverse main characters.

@artmonkey24 Жыл бұрын

I'm getting tired of it, too. This is literally just another variation of the Persephone archetype. An archetype that's been around since the beginning of civilization. Why? Not because of perverts but because of human nature. There will always be ingenues and people will always want to hear their stories just like so many other archetypes.

@juliannehannes11 Жыл бұрын

THANK YOU

@kilimanjaro5537 Жыл бұрын

I agree and I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with certain tropes. Do I think some of them could be updated? Yes, but not necessarily banned or forgotten about. I think if you eliminate the pervert aspects, etc. of certain tropes you can still write a great character and tell a great story that many people can relate to.

@misswestt Жыл бұрын

I agree! And its usually spoken with such a condescending tone!

@amberm8946 Жыл бұрын

The last couple minutes had me sobbing. Women shouldn’t have to work so hard to be treated like human beings instead of caricatures, but I’m so hopeful about how our culture is changing

@chrissiem3958 Жыл бұрын

If there is one thing more disturbing than the paired contrast of 'sexy and childlike', it's the fact that it was the f*cking norm in cinema (and society) for so long.... PS, I know its still the mindset of many disgusting, Andrew Tate-esque men, but at least women are now working to reject it....

@byDEVITA Ай бұрын

We are live in free world, so if woman want to be sexy and childish she can be sexy and childish

@recoveryinreel2085 Жыл бұрын

Probably one of y'all's best and most honest videos in awhile. Very empathetic and truthful, you left and political or bias aside and I appreciate the content. More like these! ❤

@CrimsonNineTail Жыл бұрын

Never heard of this troupe til today. Like watching these little videos on the troupes of Hollywood.

@jeannesuzanne6425 Жыл бұрын

awesomely interesting this video! thanks❤❤

@taiyabazaheer9492 Жыл бұрын

I'm so early, The Take still has good content.

@britbbgum Жыл бұрын

Loved this one, ty!

@andreathompson6660 Жыл бұрын

This really ignores and simplifies whole swaths of film history, from the multitudes of women who were working in the 1920s, the screwball comedies, a whole of Monroe's work, and beyond.

@lbabzful Жыл бұрын

Love your videos! But would be great if you added some correct CC for those who can't hear well. The YT ones are often incorrect or miss things ❤❤

@PeteeTheeBestt Жыл бұрын

Please make a video on The Neon Demon and the tropes of “The Modeling of Beauty” ❤❤❤❤

@katherinealvarez9216 Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure anime series uses this archetype a lot

@juliannehannes11 Жыл бұрын

Scarlett O'hara is not and has never been a wide eyed ingenue, ingenue is a seductive act she plays for she's an entitled ruthless schemer. Have you seen Gone With the Wind? She spends the whole movie either trying to seduce or plotting to steal a married man and expecting to suceed, that's a far cry from ingenue, she' the Anti Ingenue Speaking of Anti Ingenues, JLaw is another Anti Ingenue, I can't recall her ever playing naive, not even as a child, she had always played world weary and ball busting, the two things an ingenue is never.

@MarcosIsABaritone Жыл бұрын

Nahhh. There will always be ingenue narratives and thank goodness for that. Remember, this prototypical protagonist is a proxy for the younger generations. They will always have to learn the lessons learned by the ingenues, as we did. If anything, we are seeing more diverse representations of the ingenue. Including gay, trans, POCs and even oft overlooked representations of varying regional and economic backgrounded ingenues.

@Bombadil-ez9ns Жыл бұрын

I think the evolution of the cinematic ingenue over the last 60 years can be mapped out by the shifting portrayals of Miss Money Penny in the James Bond series.

@sannh Жыл бұрын

I'm surprised you didn't bring up Disney Princesses, Brittany Spears, and Miley Cyrus.

@cianap.281 Жыл бұрын

I think it'll survive a little, simply because it's such a useful device for the audience to enter the world of the movie along with the naive ingenue, like Cady in Mean Girls or Drew Barrymore in Never Been Kissed. The same device exists for male characters but the audience doesn't seem to have the same hangups around sexualization and pigeon-hole-ing a young male character who is uninitiated to the world he's entering, such as Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and many of his other movies, or Tom Hanks in things like The Man with One Red Shoe. I think the female Ingenue would serve this purpose more if more films were made so the audience identifies with the female character rather than stands apart and judges or desires her.

@blueberries9850 5 ай бұрын

I think the problem is that there are real life ingenues out there but now they might be labeled as “dumb”, “prude” and “immature”. We can’t we just be ? We don’t want to be sexualized, or looked at as less. It’s sad

@aprilhuffstutler1419 Жыл бұрын

You seem to confuse ingenue with other tropes. Others were sex kitten, professional woman and mom. Ingenue characters still exist-" Ladybird", and "Kimmy Schmitt" for example. There will always be coming of age movies about young women. We buy the tickets.

@LisaF777 Жыл бұрын

Marylin Monroe always comes to mind

@fififijiflowerpotswater5379 11 ай бұрын

As long as people like Selena Gomez exists, this trope will always exist.

@tylerwatkins2923 Жыл бұрын

Discuss The Idol

@we-need-to-talk-about-it Жыл бұрын

Could you make a video about travel in films and maybe instagram travelporn ruining tourist spots?

@NewYorkSkyBreakfast Жыл бұрын

Please do mangenue next!

@schm00b0 Жыл бұрын

Deadloch show already shows that this trope is on a brink of death.

@afterdinnercreations936 11 ай бұрын

The ingenue seems to just be a doll that men can sculpt and mold until the develop their own opinions and desires. Like, imagine "Weird Science" but the virtual-woman made-flesh becomes more aware of the world she lives in and her "untouched innocence" is expressed through her slowly becoming an activist; much to the chagrin of her creators.

@witchplease9695 Жыл бұрын

I would like to see Black Ingenues.

@juliannehannes11 Жыл бұрын

As long as there are actresses under 25 there will always be ingenues

@jerrysstories711 Жыл бұрын

Well thank you for at least teaching everyone to pronounce this word correctly.

@alg11297 Жыл бұрын

Audrey Hepburn made a career of playing the ingenue waif who got away with bad behavior because of her pretty priviledge.

@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 Жыл бұрын

Read "Where the Girls Are" to underrated why it's so important

@tabathastaples7884 5 ай бұрын

Shepherd's Chapel Network !!!!!!! Chapter by Chapter / Verse by Verse !!!!!!! Amen

@artmonkey24 Жыл бұрын

I'm disappointed by this video. This is literally just another variation of the Persephone archetype. These types of characters have been around for a long time. Why? Not because of perverts but because of human nature. I identify with this archetype, and so do other commenters, it seems. This video just comes off as: "This is not the way to be as a woman." Which I thought modern-day feminism was supposed to empower all types of women, not just those who are what our culture deems as "strong and independent." I expected more from a channel who defended Cinderella years ago.

@misswestt Жыл бұрын

exactly

@lilil9752 Жыл бұрын

i did like the video, but BELLA as a good example?

@JC-yy8iv Жыл бұрын

No. That’s why they showed her on the sentence “The title started to be used for any young female star, regardless of her demeanor onscreen or in real life.” They’re specifically using her as an example of someone who was called an ingenue while not actually being one in any way

@melodyclark1944 Жыл бұрын

The word should refer to a specific character like the damsel from a hundred years ago.

@schadenfreudeegoism7485 Жыл бұрын

Jane the virgin is an ingenue?

@adolfopena7358 Жыл бұрын

Where does Rachel Zegler fall into this?

@malvavisco10 Жыл бұрын

“Their youth and beauty is” - their youth and beauty ARE. Get a proofreader!!!!!

@poulomiinanewcity3185 Жыл бұрын

my husband says I am child like and very much naive

@DA_8 Жыл бұрын

Christina Aguilera is a great example of breaking the ingenue box & getting punished and publicly labelled for it. She's such a pioneer, do a video about her! ❤👏🫶

@Foxygirl558 Жыл бұрын

The Igenue girl is growing up. So there are less of them.

@ladymary22 10 ай бұрын

Scalet O'Hara an ingenue! Please that girl didn't play second fiddle to any man.

@susannehuber3996 Жыл бұрын

Most boring trope is one dimensional women.

@jadziawynter9241 Жыл бұрын

First! 🥇☝🏾

@luftwaffIe Жыл бұрын

first

@cluv513 Жыл бұрын

The ingenue's always look constipated!! See Gwyneth Kira Rooney lily rose

@cally2011 Жыл бұрын

Because...straight, white.... men

@Inquiringmind0 Жыл бұрын

We need this trope to comeback. The current bitch girl boss trope is insufferable.

@bennyt4903 Жыл бұрын

Mary Sue’s ain’t it

@keikofilms Жыл бұрын

All just a sexual thing and it was disgusting

@misswestt Жыл бұрын

The announcers voice is so snarky and nasal !

@coolida23511 11 ай бұрын

I miss the previous narrator.

@thebigdawgj Жыл бұрын

Ah, back when females were respectable.

@robchuk4136 Жыл бұрын

"Classical Hollywood was an industry run by men, for men."- This. This is how to stoke division. Explain "made movies for men" when in an era filled with comedies, and musicals, and romances, they clearly made movies for everyone. Why is this the only lense in which you view the world?

@indiigo14 Жыл бұрын

Oh geez, I don't know man. Let see, um...oh! Here's something that's proper for you my friend. Classical Hollywood was an adjustment run by White men for white men, not for women, not for minorities, not for people with disabilities, not for people with different religions, not for LGBTQIA+ and not for poor people. Oh and let's not forget the mistreatment of actresses that were either harassed or SA by those men, the racism, the homophobia, the ableism. Oh but that was all going on behind the backgrounds.

@EmpressJusticeTarot Жыл бұрын

So annoying. Just choosing to be obtuse for no good reason.

@MsDiMera2 Жыл бұрын

The people who controlled it ie Directors ,producers were all men and they were also the main beneficiaries of its profits.

@morbidsearch Жыл бұрын

"This is how to stoke division" Yep, discussing systemic bias is going to result in some hurt feelings. Deal with it.

@voightkampffchamp Жыл бұрын

"This is how to stoke division." Yeah, why can't we all just nod, look pretty, and quietly accept injustice like good... ingenues?!

@eml3077 11 ай бұрын

"not porno tongue, church tongue"

@SpeedOfThought1111 Жыл бұрын

that movie Leon the Professional is creepy pedo trash and I have no idea why anybody ever liked it. even the gary oldman character is way too over the top and stupid. but what did natalie portman expect playing that role? very disturbing no doubt but she put herself in that situation to begin with.

@Tatiana_Palii Жыл бұрын

Are you blaming a 12yo here for "making the wrong decision"? Seriously?

@SpeedOfThought1111 Жыл бұрын

well saying more as an adult i'd be surprised if she still had that perspective but if it was just her mindset at the response directly after that makes more sense. Even still, it leaves one questioning the parents who allowed her to do it.