Great video and discussion on my favorite MESBG army! Just a few thoughts. 1) The Cave Drake is one of the best monsters in the game. I've ran them in numerous tournaments and they are dreaded by nearly every opponent I face (unless they have the f'n King of the Dead). A F6 monster with 5 Attacks on the charge that can potentially do 10 S7 strikes is bananas. A Drake can one-shot almost any other hero in the game. Even if it's going 1v1 with someone like Elrond, he would be lucky to put 1 or 2 wounds on it each combat. If the Drake wins just ONE fight, it could instantly kill almost any hero in the game. I've done it many times. The Fearless bubble from their "Protect the Nest" special rule is highly underrated too. Especially if you run multiple Drakes in the same list... b/c they all get the bonus if they're within 3' of *any* of the nest markers. 2 Cave Drakes with 2 3" fearless bubbles is incredibly powerful, especially late game. 2) The Watcher in the Water is an absolute tyrant, especially when paired with a bat swarm. You can "surface" the WitW behind your goblin shield wall and place a bat swarm in direct contact with the WitW, then use the Tentacles to pull in literally any enemy hero model to where they're are touching both the Watcher and the bat swarm... you're almost guaranteed to slay them. I've done that to Isildur, Elendil, WT Boromir, the Witch-king and so many others. 3) Blackshield Captains with Axes are comically scary. I usually just burn their 2 might points up using March to try and surround one of my opponents flanks, then kamikaze them directly into the spear supports with a few spears of my own to support him. 4 S5 attacks vs trapped enemies is a lot of dead enemy models. They're not a complete waste. lol 4) I've found that the Blackshield Drummer is best used with a monster heavy army, b/c it can keep up with your monsters as they quickly move across the BF. They work well with Cave Drakes and Marauders, b/c they essentially give them Harbinger, making them a lot tougher to counter-charge. I use regular drums in Moria horde armies for the reasons you guys discussed, but I would put them in the S tier, b/c they aren't just giving Moria goblins rerolls in every fight. They're also giving all of your goblins +1 Courage and EVERY enemy within 18" -1 Courage. 2 Attack Hunter orcs are suddenly C1, having to try and charge your terror-causing Troll, Dweller, Drake, Dragon, etc. That makes a monstrous difference. (swidt?) 5) The Dweller in the Dark is not meant to be used like a Cave Troll. You don't throw them directly into your opponents lines. You use them to hit the flanks. One cheeky way to protect them is if you're using Druzhag, just surround the Dweller with some Wild Wargs. They will help get traps and keep it from getting peppered with arrows when you're working the flanks. 75 Points for a F7, Courage 7 model is absolutely insane and makes them superior to Cave Trolls b/c they can still kill multiple regular warriors and they are perfect assassins for mid-tier enemy heroes. The big base isn't a big deal if your don't over-extend and D5 can be overcame like I said or by hiding them until the lines meet. Just my 2 cents. Again, excellent video.

Tier lists are an awesome video idea. Always great to listen other people's thoughts about the game. Loved it guys!! Wishing you all the best!!

Keep these up, great videos to watch/listen to in the background to whilst painting.

working on a 1000 point moria list now so this was a big help now I am just trying to figure out what to spend my list 150 points on either the dweller in the dark a moria goblin captian and 10 moria goblins or the blessed cave drake

As someone who loves scanrio play and on the rare occasions I play competitive my lists are always theme-y It's actually really interesting seeing these lists and how "useful" some of these warriors and hero's are coming from a different perspective

Everyone seen the news about Moria models coming back to the store in May. It’s got me excited.

I'm curious if you guys would rate the Blackshield Warrior any higher if they were still S4? Is a shame they got drop kicked to the cerb by GW with that profile and points

Quality work guys

Love it! keep it up :D

Great video guys I love Moria, its very strong and cheap. I normally use the 12 goblin archers with cap with bow, and believe to me, sometimes start kill some enemies like elves or dwarf by chance and the thing start to be tedious. O kill some horses, and the poor company starts to be priority xD, 2 months ago i make 2 wounds to an Ent and was hilarious lol.

Ashraks paralyse special Ruel is acctuly realy great as when he has no will left he is useless as only spiders profit from hus stand fast etc..So you take him and charge the big enemy Hero, the enemy will think cool i kill him and then you can roll 2× 4+ to paralyse him which can not be resisted.

Having gotten a fair amount of experience running Moria lately, one thing I can absolutely say is that, in my experience, Cave Trolls are absolutely S tier must-haves for any Moria list I run. Sure, you can get a Captain with shield and another 7 Goblins for the same base price, but that strength 6 kills most anything it comes across with 3s or 4s whereas all those S3 warriors will probably need 5s or 6s, which is no guarantee. The trick is you never send your Cave Troll in alone, always bring some Goblins with it to give it those extra 3-4 dice and get them the banner reroll, because with most fights, a single 6 on 5-6 dice is usually all you need with F6. Pairing a Cave Troll with Durburz can be an absolute murder machine - at least 5 dice without any Goblin Warriors supporting as well, Might to get you the 6 that you need if necessary, or if you're feeling ballsy, spend the might for a heroic combat and get the troll 2 combats in 1 turn. Unless you're going up against top-tier heroes, you're probably gonna kill whatever you're up against pretty easily in the fight with just the troll. Even the troll chain can be super handy; it is 5 points, but that strength 5 can kill off mounts like nobody's business - killed Bolg in part by chainwhipping him off his warg on the charge in the first of 2 rounds of combat needed to take him out. The name of the game with Moria is 'Support' - you have to concentrate your dice into as few fights as possible to maximize those high rolls - and this is especially true with Cave Trolls and Prowlers.

I’m less emotionally invested in Moria than I was on Gondor. Still ready to angrily refute your decisions

Well done on scoring Pringles as a sponsor ;)

Dragged to the depths only works while in a water feature though, so it is not that common that you would be able to come from the deep multiple times per game.

Guys, i would like to know your thoughts on this list. I'm madding trying to use dragon of moria in a No-moria list. Warband 1) Dragon of moria 350 pt WB 2) the mouth of Sauron +horse 85 7 black numenoreans 63 1 black numenorean war horn 39 7 morannon orcs spear&shield 63 250 pt WB 3) Gorbag shield 60 2 orc + warg + throwing spear and bow 26 2 orc tracker 10 3 black numenoreans 27 3 morannon orc spear&shield 27 150pt Tot: 750 pt, 28 models, 8 M The mouth of sauron just because beeing a hero of valor for few points, give me more troops. What do you think? Thank you

Hey, great video! I was wondering if you could give me some input on a Moria list I have been brewing. I haven't had the chance to play it yet. I have considered a list where the Dweller or the troll or both are taken out in order for a higher model count, something like a Goblin Captain (35) + a drum (75) + a few prowlers [especially after watching the video] or warriors. But yeah, if you get the chance just let me know. Thanks for the time and the insight on Moria. ++ Moria [50 Warriors, 750 Points, 16 Bow] ++ + Hero of Valour [15 Warriors, 215 Points, 11 Bow] + Durbûrz, The Goblin King of Moria [15 Warriors, 215 Points, 11 Bow] . Durbûrz, The Goblin King of Moria [70 Points]: Heavy Armour, Leader (Valour), Sword . Warband [15 Warriors, 145 Points, 11 Bow] . . Dweller in the Dark [1 Warriors, 75 Points]: Claws and Teeth, Dweller [1 Warriors, 75 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [11 Warriors, 55 Points, 11 Bow]: Armour, Orc bow [11 Points, 11 Bow], Sword, 11x Warrior [11 Warriors, 44 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Shield [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points] + Hero of Fortitude [24 Warriors, 210 Points, 5 Bow] + Grôblog [12 Warriors, 110 Points] . Grôblog [50 Points]: Armour, Mithril Crown, Sword . Warband [12 Warriors, 60 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [6 Warriors, 30 Points]: Armour, Shield [6 Points], Sword, 6x Warrior [6 Warriors, 24 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [6 Warriors, 30 Points]: Armour, Spear [6 Points], Sword, 6x Warrior [6 Warriors, 24 Points] Moria Goblin Captain [12 Warriors, 100 Points, 5 Bow] . Moria Goblin Captain [40 Points]: Armour, Shield [5 Points], Sword . Warband [12 Warriors, 60 Points, 5 Bow] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [5 Warriors, 25 Points, 5 Bow]: Armour, Orc bow [5 Points, 5 Bow], Sword, 5x Warrior [5 Warriors, 20 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [4 Warriors, 20 Points]: Armour, Shield [4 Points], Sword, 4x Warrior [4 Warriors, 16 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Spear [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points] + Minor Hero [11 Warriors, 325 Points] + Cave Drake [5 Warriors, 245 Points] . Cave Drake [150 Points]: Claws and Teeth . Warband [5 Warriors, 95 Points] . . Cave Troll [1 Warriors, 75 Points]: Spear, Troll [1 Warriors, 75 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [4 Warriors, 20 Points]: Armour, Shield [4 Points], Sword, 4x Warrior [4 Warriors, 16 Points] Moria Blackshield Shaman [6 Warriors, 80 Points] . Moria Blackshield Shaman [50 Points]: Armour, Staff . Warband [6 Warriors, 30 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Shield [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Spear [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points]

What is venom back and were does 1 find it?

The drums are absolute D tier. They only affect goblins, of which you are going to have 15 warriors less. 15 guys with 15 attacks, with the possibility to block enemies and swarm. The drum reduces your numbers so much that it sabotages the ability to swarm and use your army bonus as well as backstabbers. Also the lower your own fight value is, the less valuable a banner effect gets, so with goblins it really isn't that useful. Therefore you should only ever include it at very high points where you already have more goblins than you can get into the fights.

I found you a little harsh on the blackshield drum just because you have to take black shield warriors as remplacement for the slained drummers Blackshield are not shit, they are just really overpriced, but if you just add 2 blackshield to support the drum, that's the same cost as 3 regular goblins And with Defense 6 and the fact that the drum can move with the rest your line, just 2 remplacements for the drummers is plenty enough

I think balrog needs more love, just sayin