Time for British Rail 2.0? & Jacobite steam train fails | Ep 29
Рет қаралды 9,206
Күн бұрынThe Jacobite steam train fails on its first run of the season from Fort William to Mallaig, stopping near Glenfinnan viaduct… and it had Mk 1 carriages on the train.
Alstom Derby and the Government are on the verge of doing a deal over a train order for the Elizabeth line - an order that could save the UK train manufacturing facility.
Is the East Coast Main Line timetable change heading towards a repeat of the 2018 Thameslink and Northern timetable fiascos?...
Leading Richard to ask whether the answer to this and the other challenges facing the industry is a British Rail 2.0. He then shares his own six-point plan for his version of British Rail 2.0.
The Railway Industry Association (RIA) launches a plan to deliver a lower cost, higher performing net zero railway by 2050.
And Northern Rail uses classical music to curb anti-social behaviour. Yes, really!
In this episode:
00:00 Intro
03:07 Alstom Derby indications of a train order for the Elizabeth line to save the UK train manufacturing facility
05:52 Jacobite steam train fails
19:57 East Coast Main Line timetable change deferred
34:01 British Rail 2.0 and Bowker’s six-point plan
41:36 Railway Industry Association plan for a lower cost, higher performing net zero railway by 2050
63:24 Northern Rail uses classical music to deter anti-social behaviour at stations
Corrections:
19:10 Nigel: "You've just shot my fox, really. I was just going to say, 'if you were a non-executive with a conscience of a company doing that, what would you be saying at a board meeting?'
19:28 Nigel: "Okay, we'll leave that hanging in the air for viewers and listeners to draw their own conclusions. But well done Richard, that's a very compelling summary which clearly points in a direction, and we'll wait for further developments, I guess, yes?
19:55 Nigel: Absolutely, absolutely. So, shall we move on to another non controversial story. Not.
20:04 The East Coast Main Line timetable change that's been mooted in the air since about 2015/2016 I think and planned for December 24.
20:16 Announced by the Government in its budget in March, with the financial consequences banked by the Treasury, which creates all sorts of difficulties I would have thought, but it's now been deferred
20:28 "because there are too many outstanding issues. So... the floor is yours once again."
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Credits:
Presenters - Nigel Harris (@railnigel on X) & Richard Bowker CBE (@SRichardBowker). General Manager: Stef Foster (@stefatrail)
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
If you like this episode, please give it a thumbs up 👍We're sorry about the audio muting of Nigel's voice at one point - we thought we'd fixed this before we uploaded the video and promise it wasn't intentional! Thanks to everyone who let us know. If you click the 'view corrections' note that appears at 19:10 a transcript of what Nigel says in the muted sections should show😊
@allanmorton6022 3 ай бұрын
And I thought WCR had silenced him!
@frglee 3 ай бұрын
When I see the BR logo (especially the silver ones) on heritage engines, I see a pride in the design and a pride in being part of a national rail network. It never really went away, being the 60 year-old default signeage for a railway station where local network logos did not predominate. Lovely to see new structures with it on, such as the just-completed new £32 million Dumfries footbridge and lifts in S W Scotland, where silver was chosen for the arrows design. This is as if we are getting ready for full British Rail 2.0 nationalisation with consistent signeage and design language. Train sets like the breathtaking blue and white 'Midland Pullman' set make me wish we can go back to consistent engine and coach stock design too.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
It was a magnificent piece of design - elegant and timeless.
@jonathandart3740 3 ай бұрын
On the Jacobite, locking all the doors constitute a risk of trapping passengers in the event of a fire. The Taunton sleeper train disaster of 1978 immediately springs to mind.
@brianfrancis198 3 ай бұрын
The problem with that dreadful event was that the corridor connecting doors into the next coach(es) were locked. Primarily this was to prevent non-sleeper passengers from entering the sleeping accomodation. Such a thing will not happen in this instance.
@rolandharmer6402 3 ай бұрын
Richard Bowker’s proposals for BR 2.0 seem very very sound. Good podcast - many thanks.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
And Richard Bowker thinks you are a very wise chap! Cheers (Richard)
@Phil-oj5nr 3 ай бұрын
Just found your KZfaq clip by chance. Very good programme. Have taken Rail for the last 10 years, so there is now no room under the model railway for anymore! Have used the British railway system as a boy until 1963, and then on return holidays in 2005, 2010 and 2014. Did well over 200 trips on the BR system over those last three visits. Only one train was more than 5 minutes late, so well done BR workers. Now semi-retired in Picton, South Island, New Zealand.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks so much Phil. Don't think we have had a regular listener in south island till now (we do have someone in Auckland) but I suspect you have now just pipped them as our furthest listener by about 300 miles. Well done sir!
@gordondudman240 3 ай бұрын
ECML timetable - in BR days you graphed the Class 1 Trains first, then you added the Class 4 freights, then all your Class 2 trains followed by Your ecs moves with class 6/7 services added last. Now lots and lots of operators have Level 1 access rights and NR have to try and satisfy them all equally. Part D of the Network Code has a set of decision criteria by which capacity decisions are to be made but that’s not quite the same as the old BR approach.
@Whiskey2shots 3 ай бұрын
Sounds like good reason for a full HS2 build to me......
@stamrly418 3 ай бұрын
For the Jacobite Do the words sailing VERY close to the wind come to mind. Insurance, leaving a maintenance depot and entering service…. The battle may be between WCR against the ORR but its people who are in the carriages!
@frglee 3 ай бұрын
Surely at £65/£85 a time for return tickets, they must make enough from this service to buy in coaches that meet modern safety standards?
@geocachingwomble 3 ай бұрын
Renationalisation is happening in December but people aren’t aware of this yet
@avv397 3 ай бұрын
Best way to "bring them round" (government, Treasury etc) 47.50 - play the "give us the cash or the puppies get it" card by very publicly and loudly pointing out that the only way of even seeing, never mind reaching, the Net Zero Promised Land, is a huge transfer of freight from road to an electrified rail network with enhanced capacity that will permit a vast increase in fast, regular, reliable traffic that will truly "deliver the goods" right across the country. You know it makes sense Rodders.
@little_britain 3 ай бұрын
Well I must agree re: re-orgs. I am pretty sure that if BR had received the money that has been forked over to the various "private operators" over the years, they would have delivered a better system than we have today.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
I rather suspect that's right although whether ALL the good things that happened thanks to privatisation (pretty much up to Covid) would have happened under a BR model is a more challenging discussion!
@little_britain 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals well indeed it is almost impossible to accurately picture the path not taken, however, operational and engineering decisions made using ideological faith are seldom sound and often disastrous. At least BR while chronically underfunded were professionals trying to do their best with the least. In my view, the only benefit privatization gave us was that the government of the day didn't mind subsidizing their chums in big business (or at least preferred it to subsidizing the grammar school types and union members who ran BR), and so provided almost enough money to do a good job.
@allanmorton6022 3 ай бұрын
Love the Jacobite story. They really are trying every little trick to avoid complying with the regulations. I votr for Richard to turn the industry round with his simplification agenda. Everything is just so complicated that nothing ever changed. Classical music has been used for years on bus stations too. Maybe also turning off wifi would have an effect at stations. Another great listen to accompany my lunch!
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks Allan. don't vote for me though! I'm just offering an opinion. Other far smarter people have the job of actually making it happen. Glad you enjoyed the podcast! Cheer.s RIchard
@tonywilson4704 3 ай бұрын
Another great watch and some more fascinating railway insights. It would be so interesting to see the railway given a shake by the re-employ of ex BR managers like Chris Green who had real vision and drive. Open access doesn't really work for me either, here in Leicester there is, as im sure you know, only the 1 service provider on MML, so no competition.Keep up yhe good work fellas....
@lon1117 3 ай бұрын
Great episode again, Green Signals. Thanks again for covering the WCR story. Your analysis and insight is really interesting.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks - really appreciate the feedback.
@antcraft3590 3 ай бұрын
Really enjoy watching the show, and learning about the recent going ons in the industry. Really look forward to each show every week, and can't wait for the next :) As for the classical music, as someone who is a fan of the musical aspect to Japan's railways, I'm quite a fan of the idea of bringing music into our railways, especially when they bring a whole host of benefits too. And finally, here's my answers to the quiz: Previously tallest viaduct: Crumlin Viaduct (61m) Current tallest viaduct: Ballochmyle Viaduct (52m)
@robertwalsh1724 3 ай бұрын
Back from the S W Rail conference in Dallas. Had a chat with the Alstom North America team about the plant closing fiasco. Just left us all shaking our heads.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
There's a fair amount of heading shaking going on over here Bob.
@MrDavidht 3 ай бұрын
Well done on getting some reaction out of the government on the Alstom in Derby situation, but I cannot help my gut feeling that it is another empty promise and that the bureaucrats will kick the new order into the long grass again.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
That's very kind, but credit where it's due - this has all been a team effort if ever there was one. And let's not forget that old and crucial maxim - it ain't done till it's done......
@johngomersall6718 3 ай бұрын
Another belter of an episode - keep up the great work. Richard your six point plan hits a lot of the current problems and your comments reminded me of Gerry Fiennes _ I tried to run a railway book. Get the right people in and tools needed for the job. Then set them free to do their thing! Its a shame the same principles could not be applied to Dept of Transport and government in general. Looking forward for next week.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thank you John. Really appreciate the kind words and great feedback. We're looking forward to next week as well! Cheers Richard
@stuart48br 3 ай бұрын
Another excellent episode. Regarding the boring reliable railway, the operators need to consider all aspects of resilience and ability to recover. I recently travelled from Preston to Edinburgh and back; both trains were 45 minutes late and availability of train crew was cited in both cases - in one case, waiting for a train manager who was on an incoming late running train. Making trains and infrastructure more reliable and resilient requires long term investment, but having excess train crew capacity could be delivered more quickly but increases operating cost. Incidentally, the late running southbound train ran under clear signals from Carstairs to Carlisle, and managed to only recover one minute of delay running at line speed (and it was a Class 390 able to run at EPS).
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Agreed - safe, boring, predictable and frequent. All things passengers love. Sprinkle a bit of innovation fairy dust on top in terms of passenger experience and it's a winning combination.
@grenfellroad8394 3 ай бұрын
I must say Richard has my vote for his new railway structure, when does he start? Please get the old hands back on board and take it forward… if only… WCR are really pushing buttons at the moment, they’re going to come a cropper. Excellent show as always guys, keep em coming.
@ShaunMcDonald 3 ай бұрын
46:38 with noting that Scotland has a rolling programme of electrification which has brought the costs of electrification per mile down. England also needs to have a rolling programme instead of knee jerk oh it's getting expensive so going to stop which only pushes the costs up further.
@ianwalker2250 3 ай бұрын
quiz answer - the highest viaduct was Crumlin Viaduct in south wales at 200ft - it closed in 1964. the highest current viaduct is balochmyle viaduct at 169ft in Ayrshire.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks Ian. Tune in next week….as they say. I’ve watched some KZfaq footage of Crumlin (and Belah, which curiously was only 4 feet shorter at 196 ft). I have a terrible fear of heights so would have struggled crossing either. One can only think what it must have been like for a driver and fireman on a footplate in a high wind!
@scottthompson8386 3 ай бұрын
I personally would love to arrive at Liverpool Street after my commute to the sound of The Marriage of Figaro (Overture) by Mozart (and as used in the opening credits if the brilliant film "Trading Places") booming out across the concourse as I dodge and weave my way across the concourse down to the Elizabeth Line 😂
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
One could have a lot of fun thinking up great pieces of music to arrive by!
@nickcollins7568 3 ай бұрын
Quiz answer. Tallest viaduct was Crumlin viaduct in South Wales at 200 feet, sadly demolished in 1965 Tallest viaduct now is Ballychmyle viaduct in Ayrshire at 169 feet
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks Nick. tune in next week to see if you are correct! I think it may have been demolished in 1966 with some bits in 1967. Must have been quite the sight!
@gordondudman240 3 ай бұрын
ORCATS - Operational research computerised allocation of tickets and services. The OR bit was the BR Business System Team who developed the software. The allocation function was to take fares revenue data and match it against the bi-annual BR passenger timetable to give a theoretical value of revenue to shared services. So revenue, between stations where there is only one operator do not get indexed, only journeys where two or more operators provide services.
@Tarkaman1 3 ай бұрын
I think we used to call it The Railway Clearing House!
@simonpilk 3 ай бұрын
I would be happy to be part of the ‘Eccles Fusiliers’ and offer my knowledge as per Rchard’s plan!
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Good to have you aboard Simon!
@davidhawkins683 3 ай бұрын
I live in Berlin and I used to live in London. In Berlin the National Train company operate the S-Bahn but it is fully integrated with Underground, Tram and Bus. British Rail.was a catastrophe for urban transport because it was a centralised organisation that only thought of rail and resisted any integration with other forms of public transport. London Transport provides joined up professional management. Compare the spectacular success of the Overground compared with the disaster that was Silverlink.and British Rail on the same tracks. Local public transport needs to be integrated, professionally managed and democratically accountable to local politicians.
@petestuart6584 3 ай бұрын
Great episode as usual guys.. with a slight technical issue in there! I believe that crumlin viaduct was the former tallest at 200 feet and the current is Ballochmyle at 169 feet. I'm probably not right, or have been beaten to the post!
@davidwil58 3 ай бұрын
I’ll go for the Crumlin viaduct at 200 feet , and the Ballochmyle viaduct currently at 169 feet.
@kenizzard4623 3 ай бұрын
Liked the pod cast, I think the main issue is to remove the DFTS main grip of overall control of the railway and reimplement the old type of the BR board and chairman, there's still enough "Just " experienced staff active and possibly retired to jump in and help out SWR who I currently work for have done just that IE retired staff coming back 3to 4 days a month to over see issue's that might arise, also Richards plan could also work, kind regards ken
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Glad you think my plan would work Ken. Cheers! Richard
@little_britain 3 ай бұрын
The highest viaduct would have been the Crumlin viaduct in Co Antrim, Northern Ireland at 200 ft, and the highest now is the Ballochmyle in E Ayreshire, Scotland at 169 ft.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks. Listen in next week to see what we think the correct answer is!
@bobskingle5762 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals There is a Crumlin in Co Antrim, but the railway bridge there is about 20ft. high. The Crumlin that you are referring to is in south Wales.
@stevieinselby 3 ай бұрын
As someone who relies on Hull Trains for many of my rail journeys, I'm very glad to have the much improved Hull to London service compared with the one train daily pre-privatisation ... but it would be so much better if it ran as part of LNER and not a separate operator. HT has only recently started to offer a limited selection of through tickets to stations beyond their own services, and it becomes _much_ more difficult to get alternative arrangements in place in the event of a breakdown or cancellation - more than once, I've been stuck at KGX for 2 hours to wait for the next HT service even though there would have been much quicker options using LNER services. But at least HT added some value to the network - Lumo and most of the current proposals are nothing more than blatant cherry-picking Orcats raids that do nothing but increase the fragmentation and increase the complexity for passengers, while reducing the opportunity to run a coherent and reliable rail network.
@dazzapie9058 3 ай бұрын
Many years ago I was in Belguim and they were piping classical music into some of their stations.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
It's seem many people having the same idea!
@MercenaryPen 3 ай бұрын
just as a note, Nigel's audio cuts out for a bit between the end of the piece on the Jacobite and the piece on the ECML
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Sorry about that! You're absolutely right. If you click the 'view corrections' note that appears at 19:10 a transcript of what Nigel says in the muted sections should show😊
@lon1117 3 ай бұрын
@GreenSignals Interesting that it didn't occur on the Podcast.
@kimrennie5294 3 ай бұрын
I thought the audio cut out was for legal reasons!
@cannyexplorer5357 3 ай бұрын
I have no sympathy for the steam train owners they had plenty of notice about the new regulations and they chose to ignore them. We got just as good an experience on Scot-rail travelling in the afternoon when we visited two years ago. Also with our railcards it only cost our party £20 for the return journey. Someone played the “music” as we went over the viaduct both ways, which added to it too.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
I'm intrigued as to what music was played as you went over the viaduct?
@cannyexplorer5357 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals Hedwig’s theme on the way out( just as we approached the viaduct) and Leaving Hogwarts on the return journey. It got a round of applause from the passengers too.
@russellbenton2987 3 ай бұрын
Good one . Our weekly dose of common sense on the railway . I remember at Glasgow Central for a while they used to play Scottish Dance Music . Not sure what that did for the trains !
@billmmckelvie5188 3 ай бұрын
You need to Quadruple up the EMR use Bradford Foster or the Interchange then use the Settle Carlisle for trains up to Glasgow via Kilmarnock.
@contrapunctusmammalia3993 3 ай бұрын
I have a vague memory of a Geoff Marshall video which said that somewhere on the Underground Network also used anti-loitering classical music
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
I think you may well be right. Just can't remember where it was!
@scottthompson8386 3 ай бұрын
There used to be many a classical tune played at Cambridge station years ago 😊
@stevieinselby 3 ай бұрын
It's been trialled in various places including shopping centres going back at least 20 years, maybe a lot longer.
@contrapunctusmammalia3993 3 ай бұрын
@stevieinselby just learned that first great eastern did in the early 2000s - seems to be a great lineage of pretending it's a new idea
@paulchambers6546 2 ай бұрын
Performance will only come ,if Network rail or GBR focus is put back on maintenance,and being back high-output renewals.
@oninbridders 3 ай бұрын
52:02 East Dorset turned into Dorset Council (Inc Western) in 2019 as a super Council, the other council of the county being BCP (Bournemouth, Christchurch, Poole)
@steveg5881 3 ай бұрын
Another great video, it's a pleasure to listen to you both. As regards the East Coast mainline, I thought the purpose of a railway was to bring business to a region. Perhaps you dont need 4 tracks at each stage along the route but two lines where that is better. Building a new rail bridge or tunnel near North/South Shields to create a fast Stockton- Wearside-Tyneside- Morpeth line would bring business to the whole of the North East and save on expensive repairs to the tired old Tyne bridges. When travelling from Yorkshire to Northumberland we now use the alternative route A19 via Middlesbrough through the new twin tunnels under the Tyne as this is less stressful. Why not do the same for the railway? Create new business for once !
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
I think we all agree that a growth oriented railway is essential if we are going to get out of this current malaise. Thank you also for your kind words.
@steveg5881 3 ай бұрын
Thank you. Now I have the choice, I would much prefer to travel Marylebone to Oxford than Paddington to Oxford. That is genuine competition.
@bgrey62253 3 ай бұрын
Running load 7 is about brake force, we did a ramsgate with 6 so were restricted to 10mph below the line speed.
@daystatesniper01 3 ай бұрын
As for the pathing , if the GCR was still open it would have taken many freights from both ECML and WCML , just operate it as high density freight only route
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Sadly not. Logistic terminals are concentrated on the M1 / M6 corridor so the WCML is especially suited to that. Anyway, moot point - long gone and not feasible to reopen.
@daystatesniper01 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals Sorry i have to disagree , they have spent billions on a line that will get people from Brum to Old Oak a mere 17 min's faster than now hmmmm , as for the logistic centers just move them ,they build anywhere they want these days
@gwillaims 3 ай бұрын
Marks 1 maybe weight and braking capcaity etc for safeoperation on theyre original risk assesments
@1954alister 3 ай бұрын
Just recently found your you tube site recently. It has been great to listen to each episode, taken me hours to binge listen to all the back issues. Great stuff gents. Issue I would like to ask Why do you think that services from Glasgow south are so sparse compared to Edinburgh. E.g. Glssgow 1 train direct per hour to Euston + 1 train every 2 hours via Birmingham and 1 every 2 hours to Manchester. From Edinburgh 2 trains direct to London per hour + Extra Lumo. 1 train per hour to Birmingham and also 1 train every 2 hours to Euston via Birmingham and 1 train every 2 hours to Manchester + extra trains to Newcastle. Trains south are regularly rammed on West Coast especially 9 car services. Glasgow/Motherwell twice the population of Edinburgh ares
@MartinH_222 3 ай бұрын
I think it's two fold really why Edinburgh demand seems to outweigh Glasgow. Firstly the fact Edinburgh is the Scottish capital means tourist wise it where people are first going to go, plus it being the centre for the Scottish government, and a significate financial centre. Secondly, and I think at least equal to the first, is the fact Edinburgh Waverley has much better connections to the rest of Scotland than Glasgow Central. With Queen Street being the station that serves more of wider Scotland than Central where London trains terminate.
@davidwil58 3 ай бұрын
Here in Teesside, and no doubt elsewhere, we have politicians promising more trains. Passengers would like more trains from Middlesbrough to London and the south, and would like Lumo to call here. We need to hear more honesty like Richard was saying about capacity issues. If a line is at capacity, don’t promise more services before you explain what will be cut elsewhere or what new infrastructure will be put in place to provide more capacity.
@daystatesniper01 3 ай бұрын
As for the green part lol, it takes as long to juice a few miles that it did to build a whole line back in the day with men with picks and shovels ,as for the battery units a major thing NOT being discussed like electric cars is the batteries CAN NOT be recycled so we are going to be in years time faced with a disposal situation akin to nuke waste
@ShaunMcDonald 3 ай бұрын
I'd love to see you have a debate/discussion on what fares should look like in the longer term.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
A fair challenge! I think we will…….
@OlanKenny 3 ай бұрын
William Tell overture would be ideal for when they announce platforms at Euston...
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Excellent idea. Although, on reflection, probably not good for crowd control.
@mattjackson8226 3 ай бұрын
Grest analysis of the West coast Railways situation with the CDL issue. One other point to consider is if you have passengers traveling in the vehicles with the doors locked out of use and you get into a situation where an evacuation is needed and the coaches with doors in use cannot be used for some reason. That could be a safety issue. I also wonder if you have coaches with CDL in a set which has non fitted coaches in between the fitted ones. How can the doors on the CDL fitted ones be operated from the guards coach from one control panel? There must be a electrical connection between all coaches. Or is tbe CDL being operated one each coach individually?
@jsma9999 3 ай бұрын
The Jacobite steam train and west coast railways are take Mikey, CLD is a must on mainline stock,SPAD in 2015 at Wootton Bassett -- 2015 Wootton Bassett rail incident. If i was owner of Black Five or any other Steam Locomotive I would pull it West coast until there get stuff in order
@bgrey62253 3 ай бұрын
Power supply north of Newcastle, the tpe 80x are timed on diesel. Same raising its head on the wcml with their 800’s. 0:35
@gordondudman240 3 ай бұрын
Interestingly the recent mainline operation of 4-VEP 3417 was permitted on the basis of doors being locked out of use.
@Whiskey2shots 3 ай бұрын
The question with WCR will be wether or not they had such approval which I doubt given that's a 1 off Vs regular services
@angelodelnord4569 3 ай бұрын
Richmonshire was abolished just over a year ago. It’s now part of North Yorkshire.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
You absolutely correct. So it was 3....... Just as well no-one got it!
@aaronsmith9209 3 ай бұрын
I think any fare reforms need to more along the lines of Project Oval and not like LNER's horrible changes. Project Oval seems to be tied to zonal fares so many returns were repriced to be between Off Peak and Super Off Peak, the best part is that singles are made to be exactly half of returns like in London. Rail fares need to be decimalised. We need to copy Scotrail and abolish anytime tickets and in general increase capacity to better match demand, many 'peak' trains are busy one way and ghost towns in the other direction. It's almost guarenteed to get a carriage to yourself on a 7am departure out of King's Cross or Paddington! When the first off peak services are always overcrowded, noticed this even on the tube lately! It's not a good use of trains and should be fixable by ticket reform. The one good idea from LNER is the 70 flex but it should replace advance tickets, not flexible off peak tickets. All the issues with the railways nowadays put me off advance tickets and a little flexibility for cheaper would be encourage me to buy them. Also hopefully any reforms encourage greater use of rovers and rangers and bring about new ones, especially tickets that integrate buses and trams. Month returns need to stay too. Also Richards proposals for BR are pretty sensible, I think the last contract is EMR which expires in 2030, so not so long away and plenty of time to improve public transport bit by bit and at little cost.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Definitely worth listening to our episode on Fares reform with Mark Smith where we discussed options for reform and simplification.
@aaronsmith9209 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals I think I watched that already and left a similar ranty comment lol
@steviez110 3 ай бұрын
Love the muting of Nigel at 19.16 we all need that lol. Interesting point re mix of stock on WHL Jacobite I wonder if having LSL as competition has jerked WCR into some sort of action that might fall foul yet again. One to watch I think.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Sorry about that! You're absolutely right. If you click the 'view corrections' note that appears at 19:10 a transcript of what Nigel says in the muted sections should show😊
@craiglogistics2092 3 ай бұрын
I personally think that open-access operations are good for the railway because they give people more options for travel and in some cases they can give better value for travelers, now here's a question for Alstom, what's happening with the class 175 DMUs? will they be refurbished or re-engineered? and will they be coming back into service?
@stewartlegg855 3 ай бұрын
Playing classical music at stations is not new as I seem to recall it being played at Waterloo in the peak periods as it was alleged it encouraged the masses through the station. Not quite to drive them out, but to hurry them along!
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
As a classically trained musician, I couldn’t possibly endorse that view! Cheers. Richard
@superted6960 3 ай бұрын
For what this is worth re the Jacobite. Carriage keys are not hard to acquire, so a locking out of use can be overcome by a suitably equipped passenger.
@ChrisExley-sk1fh 3 ай бұрын
Question answer: Ballochmyle Viaduct in Ayrshire. Thanks for another well-informed program. Richard, get well soon! West Coast Railway have form on pushing ORR and other operators to distraction. Keep up the good work, the railway should keep doing what it does best.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks Chris. I'm feeling a lot better now thanks. Pretty rough when we were recording though!
@robp4682 3 ай бұрын
Another great presentation - the future of our Railways is as clear as mud - what is needed is clear political Will.
@LeslieGilpinRailways 3 ай бұрын
I notice that all the charter operators running with Mk2 stock now still need - and are running without CDL on - Mk1 kitchen and buffet cars - I dare say with the doors locked, No Mk2 buffet or kitchen cars were built.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Our understanding was that no Mark 1 can be on the railway unless they have CDL fitted or they have an exemption which again we understand will have only been granted if there is a plan to fit CDL. The buffet point is interesting. Do you have specific examples?
@LeslieGilpinRailways 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals Firstly I think all Steam Locos have Mk1 support coaches, whatever the operator. An example otherwise is Saphos trains - their Lakelander tour last weekend, run with LSL locos, had a non-CDL Kitchen / Buffet car. West Coast's latest Mk2 train for their steam charters has Mk1 non-CDL buffet and kitchens as does I think Riviera Trains (?) Mk2 Blue & White charter set, currently running with a Chocolate & Cream Kitchen / Buffet non CDL. Those are the ones I see at Carlisle regularly.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
@LeslieGilpinRailways don’t forget that coaches used exclusively by train crew are excluded from the prohibition and it may be possible that a specific risk assessment has been done on other vehicles on a case by case basis. The detail will be critical so need to avoid generalisations.
@t9south 3 ай бұрын
Standing on the platform, it’s starting to snow. The Planets by Gustav Holst begins to play. You await the dreaded cancellation announcement.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Mars, the Bringer of War perhaps?
@spencergibbens8466 3 ай бұрын
With regard to the Jacobite as others have noted in the comments,the trains appears to have two Mk1 vehicles in the consist, a buffet and a BSK. The latter is a support vehicle I guess with no passengers and I assume they don’t have a MK2 brake van available? I wonder if there are other exemptions for Buffets given the lack of MK2 variants?
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
I believe that vehicles that are not used for passengers are exempt from Regulation 5 but all other vehicles do need an exemption (or CDL).
@davidwhiting1761 3 ай бұрын
I imagine with the Jacobite situation that it is a simple as "The regulation says we can't operate with coaches that have doors meant for passengers without CDL, so we'll lock the doors, which are still otherwise in good working order, and put them out of passenger use, and therefore we're good because said doors are no longer for passenger use. We'll stagger the MK1s between MK2s to insure passenger capacity and we're good to go." Whether or not it's legal is another matter, but I imagine the above of going to be West Coast's defense for what it's done with its coaches.
@kentonjazz3 3 ай бұрын
The ORR to me seem to have no backbone when it comes to WCR. I was in Fort William on the day the train broke down, (have video at Glenfinnan)Approx 6 hours from leaving FW to FW 50 miles ! Locals would rather have a new operator LSL, very professional.
@796karen 3 ай бұрын
East Dorest Council no longer exists. It was abolished in 2019 and replaced by a Dorest Unitary Authority
@796karen 3 ай бұрын
Ditto Richmondshire. It is now part of the new Council for North Yorkshire from 2023
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Oh heck, thanks! I suspect it’s just the two district councils then! Thanks heavens no one got even close. Thanks for the brilliant local knowledge though!
@tonyskinner1643 3 ай бұрын
Sorry but East Northamptonshire was also abolished, and is part of North Northamptonshire with Kettering, Corby and Wellingborough. Des this mean that victory is now not yours and we all deserve a mug?
@geoffreydingle2410 3 ай бұрын
I have just watched a video of 45212 and the WCR set leaving Arrochar and Tarbet en route to Fort William ECS and consist has Mk1 Support coach without CDL on front and then 3 Mk2's with CDL a Mk1 Buffet Car with no CDL and then another Mk2 with CDL so that does not agree with your observations stated on the current Green Signals. If the Jacobite is so formed perhaps it does conform to regulations?
@lewiss626 2 ай бұрын
The good thing about the open access operators is that they opened routes that the DFT didn't want to open presumably because they thought it wouldn't be profitable. But look at them now Hull trains, Grand Central and Lumos services regularly full..... what gives the DFT the right to swoop in now and take them over 🤔
@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын
Yep, good loadings but how much is that due to the fact they can charge lower prices given they do not have to cover the full costs of them being on the network? There is no suggestion of anyone taking them over, least of all the DfT. Where on earth have you got that misunderstanding from?
@andyknott8148 3 ай бұрын
If memory serves, buffet and restaurant cars have for years had doors that are locked out and marked "Staff Only". Also dining cars (made up of 2 seats on one side and 4 on the other) have their centre doors locked and bared, can these vehicles not now be used? I don't think the fire regulations prohibit this, as both ends of the locked carriage have exits through to the adjacent vehicle, hammers to break the windows could be provided.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the feedback. We're still trying to get to the bottom of what is planned.
@gordondudman240 3 ай бұрын
Is a door ‘locked out of use’ - ‘defective’ or simply not to be used???
@srfurley 3 ай бұрын
Some bus stations have played classical music for years, West Croydon and Walthamstow for example. Handel, Mozart and Vivaldi seem to be popular. I once commented to somebody that I wondered what would happen if they played G G Allin; would it lead to riots?
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
A good point! I think if we played O Fortuna from Carmina Burana, that would have quite the opposite of the desired effect.
@moelSiabod14334 3 ай бұрын
It seems pritty obvious that WCR are willing to push this right to the wire, the ORR have teeth to stamp down on this situation,use them to stop these vehicles operating or stop the company which is operating them. Show who is running this circus, a few months without income will soon cause WCR to have a re think and fit CDL.
@little_britain 3 ай бұрын
They did the classical music thing in Cleethorpes in the 80s.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
And do you know if there was a positive impact?
@little_britain 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals If by positive you mean the teenagers moved on, then yes, it worked according to the Grimsby Evening Telegraph!
@djburland 3 ай бұрын
This situation is a farce, all who wish to travel want original or close to, equipment! We know the risks, and are adults.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Sadly, I don't think any original NBR rolling stock survives in order for today's service to be truly 'original'. What qualifies as original is a matter of context and age. For some, a Mk 3 is original. Depends on your frame of reference.
@BenRattigan 3 ай бұрын
I agree on open access as Grand Central is just so unreliable and not improving. The Sunderland route is really convenient, but if it was to go then we need better connections from places like Hartlepool to Darlington instead of 1 knackered old Sprinter once a week. If open access goes then the two carriage Sprinters need to go as well. I doubt however that an incoming Labour Govt is going to risk removing intercity services from Wearside and Tees Valley, the only way to pull that of is either electrification of the Tees Valley and Durham coastline or increased frequency across the area and brand new not “as new” longer local trains. The refurbs of the class 156 is equivalent of polishing a turd in my opinion. Northern would seriously need to up their game. Honestly anyone I’ve spoke to on the subject thinks the Pacers never left, no one has noticed any improvement. The class 156 should all have been scrapped along with Pacers. Grand Central is quiet between Sunderland to York most of the time and I use it every couple of weeks, its seems to have got a bit busier between Hartlepool and Sunderland but I suspect that’s because of overcrowding of Northern services from Middlesbrough to Newcastle people use GC and Metro instead on weekends.
@srfurley 3 ай бұрын
If they are taking roughly half of the doors on the train out of use where does that leave the time to evacuate the train in the event of an emergency such as a fire? I know that aircraft are required to be able to be fully evacuated within a certain time; is there any similar requirement for rail vehicles? Mk. 1 doors are quite narrow.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
A good question. Is there not a 90 second rule on evac? Again, it may depend on the stock in question and an overall risk assessment.
@gwillaims 3 ай бұрын
maybe they had deragation for doors before if a single door failed etc so operation wouldnt be halted in the passed. i have travelled on thameslink with a defective door
@srfurley 3 ай бұрын
I was once on a Mk. 1 unit on the LTS line. Each time a train passed us going in the opposite direction the door pulled out onto the second catch and I had to pull it in again. At the next station I opened the door, fuaied my arm and called to the guard, who examined the door and then locked it out of use; no label was placed on it. What should I have done in this situation? I was quite worried about having to keep pulling the door fully closed; should I have stopped the train? To have had the train stopped between stations with a defective door would also have been undesirable.
@DJ_K666 3 ай бұрын
Regarding a BR 2.0 really the old British Railways Board (Residuary) needs to be reawakened and its old members voting new members on and themselves off, then voting to rename it the British Railways Board, absorb Network Rail, GBR, the Operators of Last Resort, then all the franchises as they come up for renewal. Then the the return of yellow ends, on board catering cars and platform end ramps. Then we'll have BR back properly. A 'boring' railway that works properly is a good first stage. Get trains running effectively and efficiently at a proper price and then add the 'interesting ' stuff afterwards. I'd say, as above, bring in the old BR board then add new blood do you've got new ideas and older experience. Above all, let's get as many closed lines reopened as possible, Rugby to Leicester, for example. We need lines going east to west as not everything has to lead to London.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
I love your passion. Not sure we should reopen as much as possible though - many closed for jolly good reasons that even with the passage of time remain just as valid today,
@guyb3785 3 ай бұрын
I liked the episode, good about Alstom. Did you find out how much a new railway station should cost.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Nope, still waiting for the call re Haxby. Reckon I need to up the ante.....>!
@guyb3785 3 ай бұрын
Thank you
@staffordian 3 ай бұрын
Another enlightening episode. Great Jacobite/WCRC research from Richard, which shows how close they are sailing to the wind. Apart from the legal issues, I'm amazed that West Coast think running an unheated train in Scotland in spring is ok. No ETH also raises questions as to how the CDL will remain powered as the batteries run down during the day because Mk2s don't have dynamos. One point I heard regarding running defective stock; defective stock can't leave a maintenance depot, but does the stabling point at either end qualify as a maintenance depot? If not maybe that's another loophole WCRC are using? Cheers, Rob
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks Rob. I have heard it suggested that the Mk1s may have had the dynamos to power the CDL and then the air required coming off the main reservoir - there was a dual braked loco on the front. But it's an area we need to do a bit more looking into.
@daystatesniper01 3 ай бұрын
WCR have had years to sort this out , imo' they are trying to run a Rolls Royce on a Aygo budget
@simonaltham9054 3 ай бұрын
I'd heard classical music can improve your memory, can't remember where I heard it though.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
No, I've forgotten too........
@bgrey62253 3 ай бұрын
Bringing CG back to consult well they’ll be a lot of P45’s handed out.
@harri2626 3 ай бұрын
Didn't Tyne & Wear Metro play classical music at their underground stations many years ago, for the same reason?
@pauljohnson7171 3 ай бұрын
Yes they did and it wasn't just the underground stations. Don't know why they stopped it although as lots of the stations are quite close to houses noise pollution may have been a factor.
@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын
Shame the Health and Safety ignore the hazards of getting on and off new trains due to large stepping distances and badly positioned grab rails. The 800 series are particularly bad.
@Adam-pk2te 3 ай бұрын
I'm not well informed enough to disagree with Richards plan, it sounds good and I agree, however, I do think that reintegration of Track, Train and Operations back into One Nationalized arms length body which can set the agenda and direct, as Railways across the world have from the likes of DSB and Serbian Railways, should be the ultimate long term goal
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
And I agree that integration is important and probably should not be a long term goal either - really need it more quickly than that. But practical integration can be achieved quite quickly without the distraction of an organisational restructure that would risk becoming the thing everyone focuses on - to the detriment of the dramatic performance change we need.
@Adam-pk2te 3 ай бұрын
@@GreenSignals Agreed
@gwillaims 3 ай бұрын
stwards enquiry coalville had a temp station during coalville open days in the 9os lol
@gwillaims 3 ай бұрын
did you get email ok
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Yep - posted today.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Nice try. Stewards Enquiry denied!!
@newage3 3 ай бұрын
What about the freight side of the rail industry.......?
@andrewsavage9767 3 ай бұрын
audio issues at 20min?
@gordondudman240 3 ай бұрын
Definitely loose Nigel but get Richard OK
@katelowes4231 3 ай бұрын
Yes same here
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Sorry about that! You're absolutely right. If you click the 'view corrections' note that appears at 19:10 a transcript of what Nigel says in the muted sections should show😊
@callumthornelow2936 3 ай бұрын
On the jacobite topic, doesn't a diesel need to be attached to the train to provide ETS to power the CDL? Asking for someone more technically minded than me.
@moelSiabod14334 3 ай бұрын
Techy answer, a diesel loco or other means of supplying ETH . can be used to provide the 800 v single phase to give power to the rear or front ( if coupled in behind the leading loco ) of carriages worked by a steam loco. The ETH supply does not provide any power for the operation of the CDL. systems , they to the best of my knowledge work from the air or vacuum supply used in the brake system . I have not seen a purely vac set-up , but they may be out there on some old Mk 1s somewhere, but the method of operation will be similar to air braked stock just using suck rather than blow. The principle of operation being as follows , fitted to each door frame assembly is a small cylinder with an appropriate locking bolt attached ,with the bolt drawn back the door can open, if the driver has created the brake pipe to allow him to move the train the bolt will extend into the door to hold it closed ( locked ) if the train is moving the bolt will remain locked untill the the train pipe pressure is destroyed by the driver, by which time the train will have stopped . All the moving parts will be covered to prevent tampering and are linked to the train brake pipe for their operating signal pressures, basically if the train can move the doors are locked,if the train can not move the doors can be opened. It does not power operate the doors open or closed.
@adodgygeeza 3 ай бұрын
Is there enough lithium, yes, rail is a completely niche industry compared to automotive. Rail vehicles are ordered in their hundreds per year and might have 10-30 times these battery capacity of a single EV. Cars are produced in the millions.
@bishwatntl 3 ай бұрын
Here's an example of the fares situation. Consider travelling from London to Windsor - two routes, two operators. SWR offer a simple fare structure off-peak - return fare is twice the single. GWR offer a return fare of around £14 with a single of around £12. Given that a lot of passengers don't much care which route they take, why not encourage a mix and match to suit personal needs and timetable connections - e.g. out on SWR, back on GWR? Add to that the fact that passengers can use TfL services and therefore Oyster to get to Richmond (or Ealing Broadway and Elizabeth Line?) and some cheap travel options open up. I can see why operators might prefer to lock customers into their services, but isn't what we really need a connected network?
@bgrey62253 3 ай бұрын
Increasing ecml services, crickey lner can’t run their current timetable.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
And i think that's one of the concerns Brian - everything risks getting too stressed.
@adodgygeeza 3 ай бұрын
Actually battery trains will end up being faster than electric trains running from the OHL. See a Tesla Vs an Azuma as a basic demonstration of this! If you have a 3MWh battery in your InterCity train, it's perfectly possible to pull 20-30MW (27-40,000bhp) from it. With the use of technology and manufacturing scale from automotive there isn't really a cost or mass reason for not gloriously overpowering trains. Basically it could accelerate like a tube train all the way to 100mph. For this reason eventually all trains will end up being battery electric as not only will they be faster but more resilient to faults in the OHL.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks, although I am not technically knowledgeable enough to comment. Interesting thought though!
@mrcogginsgarage7062 3 ай бұрын
Richard sorry to hear about the stinking cold try some fresh pineapple to help get over it . When you feel a bit more like it could you confirm that you've had my email about delivering the GS mug cheers
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks - and I've never tried pineapple. Will try anything once though! No, didn't get email and I've checked Spam / Junk etc. Worth trying again?
@mrcogginsgarage7062 3 ай бұрын
Thanks I've emailed twice to info @Green Signals using the link from the website directly,strange that you no had it ,I shall persevere however Reuben.
@josephlowe5136 3 ай бұрын
Open access - where I think your wrong on the case against - is not about the DMU's over wires, or the capacity crunch, or the revenue raid on existing, but on the politics. Once you have private firms making making, but being limited by infrastructure, you have an environment that creates the lobbying to get more infrastructure done. Sometimes to have to run things hot to get the new stuff authorised. It was the railway interests controlling Parliament in the 19C that got our rail network authorised. Only the nationalised rail industry has national rail strikes. For a generation the government took a back seat. That led to record infrastructure investment and almost no strikes. Fares reform and a single website - really - one website with no competition - and all sales accross the country stop when it goes down, or on strike. Now I buy my tickets on the app I like best. Outside urban zonal fares, the ticket prices are laid out before me and the choose the one I want, do I really need a national price list.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Thanks for your comments although I do think the circumstances now for the railways and the commercial interests that drove the building of them are so very different from where we find ourselves today.
@colinmcgregor123 3 ай бұрын
Scotrail in Scotland
@Whiskey2shots 3 ай бұрын
Quite disgusting that WCR are so blatantly breaking the rules when they've had plenty of time to fix this.
@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын
There's worse. The entire Hitachi fleet lacks grab rails in the right place. You have to be really careful getting off at many stations with low or convex platforms. HSE has very selective concerns.
@Whiskey2shots 3 ай бұрын
@@physiocrat7143 ngl I think there's a difference in concern levels there. But yes they likely need better funding like most government departments to be able to actually deal with these things
@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын
@@Whiskey2shots The 800 series are the most numerous type of inter city train. Most recent trains have inadequate grab rails. Mark 1 stock is excellent in this respect. ORR has strange priorities. LUL S stock is also responsible for an increase in falls between platforms and trains. That said, it should not be expensive to add additional safety to the Mark 1 doors. I get the impression that the systems available were more complex than necessary.
@Whiskey2shots 3 ай бұрын
@@physiocrat7143 have the 800s resulted in a similar increase in falls? They do have grab handles btw inside either side of the door as you enter
@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын
@@Whiskey2shots I wrote to RSSB about falls from the 800 series but the reply was that they have not kept records. The grab rails are much too far inside the vehicles to be able to keep hold of them, when alighting, until you are safely on the platform. It puts a hell of a strain on people's knees, which you will notice when you get older. With hinged doors you can use the top of the lowered droplight for support over the gap between platform and train. The Electtrostars and similar also have the problem. Ask anyone over the age of 70. One solution is to fit retracting steps but that is another expensive complication. The traditional 60 cm hinged door is inherently safe. It ought to be easy to fit, at little expense, a spring loaded solenoid to the doors on any old vehicle, with emergency release. The door trouble got worse when the wider wrap-round doors were introduced on later Mark 2 stock. The 313/455 families of stock can also be bad in some locations eg Clapham Junction platforms 12, 16 and 17, also platform 1 at Brighton, and 1/2 at Lewes. Class 158 have the doors as close as possible to the bogie centres which gets round the problem. The 800 series are too long and have high floors which makes it as bad as could be. RSSB assumes that OLD=BAD, which is not so.
@Tarkaman1 3 ай бұрын
I disagree about Hydrogen trains, they are a non-starter as H storage, range and refuelling are nowhere near practical. Green H currently needs to come from Antwerp by boat! Battery trains need to use LiFEPO rather than LTO batteries just as the Greenford Trial is.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Am not sure exactly what we said you are disagreeing with! Tend to agree that hydrogen is not the answer. Certainly not yet and possibly for a very long time to come.
@Tarkaman1 3 ай бұрын
@GreenSignals Nigel mentioned the use of hydrogen and battery trains when talking about the RIA proposals, which I agree with. However, later Richard reiterated that he supported the battery but not hydrogen trains. I am looking forward to the next episode and would like to hear how they would tackle the future infrastructure security and maintenance issues with the advent of more climate issues?
@MartinH_222 3 ай бұрын
Regarding the change of tune at DfT about open access, I think this is very much politics led by the current government that in reality know that the only way to keep a 'true' privatised element to rail is through open access. It really wouldn't surprise me if the likes of First Group, and probably others, have been lobbying hard to Conservative minds in power that giving them open access paths is the only way to private business interested in the industry.
@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын
Agreed. DfT officials like all civil servants will always work to the very last moment for the Government of the day, and do nothing different until and unless the Government changes. Anything else would be constitutionally wrong. So yes, it’s Government policy.
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