This is ture, which is why "it depends". WIth Lithuanians having 5 relics they are by far the best, even with 2-3 they still beat all. Without them then of course the Franks are #1

@@ZeroEmpires although i understand your side, i tend to aggree with ashish. the fact that relics can be denied makes the frank number 1. you should have said: franks paladins are number one for consistency, but with the right setup lithuanians take the spot

Having 2 relics isn't hard though, and that still is enough to beat the Franks.

Considering all the new nations came out OP on purpose, I doubt that they will stay number one.

Then Lits will use Leitis

because of their fate on Huitzilopochtli!!

Actually i saw a post on reddit that claims with image evidence that if you convert stables from another civ as Aztecs or Incas, a unit called "Xolotl Warrior" can be created from the stable that you converted, the status are the same as a Paladin, but doesn't have defensive upgrades from the blacksmith. If anybody wants to see the post: www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/dxjszj/mesoamerican_cavalry_unit_xolotl_warrior/

Kono dio da

Actually, since they have the best monks, they can convert any of these civs paladins to have a very powerful paladin army

Aztec have the best tarcans in the game.....but only if they are vs Spanish

But they are slower

@@pronoob2439 which fits with the theme of the teutons. Their whole thing is slow but very powerful units which advance behind a storm of artilery and castle fire. Having slow palafins dosnt hurt much when you always force the enemy to attack into you.

@@volodymyrboitchouk this was a paladin matchup. Teutons have one good bonus and one good drawback. So it could be at 6th

@@vineetmishra2690 I kinda dislike these contrived tests, honestly. No civ is going to make only one unit, so what is more important imo is how well a unit fits into the overall strategy of that civ. And on these grounds the teutons Paladin is almost essential whereas the huns could very well ignore Paladins entirely

@@volodymyrboitchouk idk about huns ignoring paladins, theyre basically their best unit in imp and u will have to make them in team games

It also requires a Castle (+488 Stone cost) which you may not have built in time to research the tech (+ 40s) before you can even take advantage of it though.

@@ZeroEmpires But to be honest, we are talking about "The best Paladin Civs", Paladins appear in the late game, so factoring in the castle cost doesnt make much sense in my opinion. People should have castles by the time they produce paladins :)

@@ZeroEmpires you're comparing a +488 stone cost against having 3 or more relics at least, + the time and resources spent on bloodlines. In a situation in mid-late imp where all this applicable, it's very common for people to have at least one castle up just for map control, and the frank castles are cheap so that's an extra bonus for that. The Lithuanians basically just have one major bonus that is highly situational and only really applicable in very late game, whereas the Franks have a bunch of versatile bonuses where some are effective immediately and others are easily reachable + the eco bonus, and everything is consistent regardless if you're ahead or behind your opponent. With Lithuanians you have to be at least a bit ahead of your opponent to secure the required relics for them to make a noticeable difference.

@@ZeroEmpires Considering the Resource savings and head start in economy by not having to research Farm upgrades and Bloodlines, I think you should be able to afford a Castle that's 25% cheaper at some point before hitting Imperial Age. Franks are, in my opinion, a lot more consistent, since their 20% HP, great eco and faster Stables will work no matter what. Lithunaians need Map control for Relics to have good Paladins. Since their only early Eco bonus is +150 Food that's harder to achieve than it is with franks

@@kassadus2499 100% this. Frankish pallys are reliable and even if liths get their +5 all you gotta do is break their monasteries, you don't even have to take the relics yourself you just have to kill the buildings.

Their Paladins are still sent back to the Dark Age by Lithuanian 14+9 attack though, it just "depends" on how many relics the Lithuanians have.

@@ZeroEmpires there is no way you'd get 5 relics in a competitive game

@@ZeroEmpires must say this is a bit of a blunder. The Lithuanian Paladins are more like "oh you're already ahead with bunch of relics and likely map control, here have an op paladin to cement the death of your enemy" - whereas the Franks are just overall strong and fast producing Paladins regardless of the situation, and they still fare better against arrow fire and siege due to the extra hp. I think the Lithuanians are only really strong if you're already in a good spot, but in that scenario any regular Paladin would be strong regardless.

A list on "best paladin" means best possible paladin. Aka the Lithuanian paladin

Getting 2 relics in a team game is almost always possible. There's almost always 2 or even 3 spawned near your team

Obviously they are making new factions op hence they can sell new copies

He put Franks on 2nd spot because he deliberatly ommited their "Chivalry" tech giving 40% working speed to the stable (don't understand why he did this while taking the hun's bonus into account but whatever). This test is incomplete in many, many ways, so don't take his top 5 too literally.

Erectar Denara yeah for team games the frank pallys are probably still better, although your teammates could feed you relics, Lithuanians still don’t get any production or economy bonuses. I feel like they might edge out franks in 1v1, with excellent trash (minus 1 melee armor on halbs), Leitis which are cheaper on food but cost 5 more gold trading effectively into pallies, and full Calvary archer upgrades. I think Liths have all the tools to be top tier. Oh also they do start with a whopping +150 food! Helping fast drushes and up times. It’s not as big as say Slavs farming bonus or franks free farm upgrades for that matter but it’s nice.

Yeah, I could not believe AOE for giving other civs paladins since only persians and Franks have paladins in them base on history. Persians have more Paladins in History than Franks but Franks have skillful Paladins than Persians.

Whoops, that's my bad; It's supposed to be the Bulgarians :D

True. I'd rather have a harder-to-kill unit going around in battle and being useful for longer than to have a unit that kills fast but dies faster. Higher attack damage will only be more useful if you’re raiding or to ranged units.

nice one xd

This Boomer meme is reaching the levels of "Anyone listening to this in current year!?" -_-

Do you research Loom in your games? Cos if so, then have I got some words for you...

@@ArawnOfAnnwn Ok Loomer

The last time I was this early, Paladins were the best stable unit

It depends, and that's why I'd have prefer a more... Thorough kind of test : Comparing the unit 1 civ to another doesn't make much sense, paladins won't be fighting other paladins most of the time, especially if your opponent kows that you have a strong cavalry civilisation. Paladins are made to counter Infantry, light cav and archers...And usually end up having to face pikes, camels or other anti-cav units (and paladins have A LOT of counters spread across the game so it's kinda hard to use them as a main army unit) If we want to compare which civ has the best paladins, we have to compare their paladins against all the matchups they might end up against. In this regard, I'd pick the Franks at the top spot because their extra HP gives them 1 extra-hit of HP when facing their counters (camels and halberds for example) and also gives them more ranged-resistance, while the extra-attack from the Lithuanian bonus doesn't change the number of hits the paladin needs to take down a pikeman or hallberdier unless they got 4 relics or more. That's the main reason The other reason is that Lithuanian's bonus depends of the amount of relics you're able to grab, meaning you can end up with NO USE of the bonus if you don't manage to grab a single relic, and you need at least 2 to make a notable difference, while franks get their bonus from the start, and it cannot be canceled. And appart from their relic bonus Lithuanian don't possess any bonus related to their knight-line, so without any relic their paladins are completely generic, while Franks got their strong Food economy AND their unique technology "Chivalry" going for them too.

... why? Why do you think this way? You saw them beating frank paladins 1vs1, didn't you? So it makes a difference when fighting melee units, also the frankish hp makes them more useful for raiding. Did you forget to put a negation in your statement? So, assuming you meant "Higher HP will make franks better at raiding and against ranged units, while Lithuanians need to get attacks in to even benefit from any bonus at all", I will point out that there is more to evaluating such bonuses than just listing 3 situations and pointing out what wins what. As stated at the start of the video, Paladins really pack a punch. They are really population efficient, and anything that lets you plow through enemies better is appreciated. Right away, better against ranged units doesn't matter as much. Theoretically, the franks are better, but 1 crossbowman cannot win against either paladin. So cannot 40 vs 40. There is no archer where having 20% more hp makes a difference in terms of population effectiveness, except maybe 40 elephant archers in a nook so only 1-2 paladins can attack at a time. Irrelevant for arguing for the consitently better paladin. So both are absolutly stellar against most ranged units. We already saw that Lithuanians absolutly demolish franks with 5 relics and consistenly beat franks with +2. So the only unit that is population effective against them is the rarly seen elephant. Also, did you know that Lithuanians at +5 can beat halbs 1 hit earlier than franks can? they effectivly have + 38 hp when fighting a halb any where in their lifetime. So the only situation where franks are better is raiding. Or is it? When raiding villagers, franks take 3 hits to take them down. At +1 attack, lithuanians take 2. The only situation where franks are better is when the paladin cannot get attacks against their enemy and have to take a lot of damage. Lithuanians are better in the end.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and none of ours change the fact this test is incomplete, would that be deliberate or not.

@@RoulicisThe This wasn't directed at you. Had you read even just the first sentence (disregarding the questions before it), you could have realized that.

@@Tudsamfa There were only 2 people in this conversation so your message was for the 2 of us. I gave you my answer, that's all

yeah sad the microsoft dont give a fuck and made absolute broken game

Agree. In big battles, you will want your melee attack units to survive longer, so they can keep doing damage, even if this damage is slightly smaller than the units with more attack (which are more likely do be killed sooner). Generally, it is better for heavy infantry/cavalry to be "tankier" than to have such a huge attack damage.

That’s the plan!

Franks get cheaper castles and Throwing Axeman complements this by countering rams by dealing melee damage from ranged.

The germanic tribe franks were known for their throwing axemen though, the weapon is even called a francisca. Later the country france, which developed from the frankish tribe, were known for their knights. AOE covers both with the throwing axeman and paladins.

@@eirikmarthinsen3850 That's a good point. Perhaps AOE 2 DE could use the Frankish Paladin model for the base Paladin? It's such a nice model and would emphasize the strength of knights in French history.

@@KyleNelson89 Honestly? It makes sense. The regular Paladin sprite has the Fleur De Lis symbols on the back-side of the horse's mantle, but the rider's shield has the British Lion sigil. Meanwhile, the Frankish Paladin sprite is all about the Fleur De Lis sigil, both on shield and mantle (well, the old sprite used to, anyway), so it'd make sense for it to be the Frank's main cavalry unit.

Probably play the paladins and try it with a Huns ally, and spanish if possible : With the Huns team bonus you train your paladins 60% faster (combined with the "Chivalry" tech) and with a spanish ally you'll get more gold from trade, making affording them easier. If you can just have 1 ally, I'd pick the spanish over the huns as the gold in late game is more important than the 20% creation speed boost, and also because Paladins and Conquistadors combine incredibly well

I think it depends with these civ's. Celtic Paladins are better in close combat and would win a direct confrontation against a byzantine paladin. However a byzantine paladin can withstand more arrows so it really depends. And regarding your last question i'd say for these both civs paladins are just something nice to have and are not their primary strength so if you are in the situation where making paladins makes sense and you actually have the resources then you could do it but it'll seldom come to that. A fitting example would be if you have the celts and you're fighting against a byzantine enemy since your paladins are practically the only thing you can do against cataphracts but mass halbs could do it as well. In the end it all comes down to the player

@harly queen just a little slow more than others but all paladins performs more or less against archers

And I'd say Burgundians in spite the lack of bloodlines it's just insane how fast you can have them out. The cavalier upgrade is already available in castle age and on top of that stable upgrades cost 50% less so paladins are not even a late game unit for Burgundians

Because the Bloodline tech

@Winnie ̈Xi Jinping ̈ pooh Do Cumans paladins get bloodlines though? Any paladin civ would get thrown out of top 5 if they don't have access to it : their movespeed buff will make them catch archers more easily...But without the extra HP from bloodlines they'd go down more easily to arrows, cancelling the bonus against archers

It's a mistake with the list, replace Tatars with Bulgarians and you're good to go

Yeah, but you should probably go there if you want proper unit tests. At least it doesn't give us half-baked tests for his evaluations ^^

It's too situationnal : against low HP archers it doesn't change anything...But against really tanky archers it doesn't change a thing too : War wagons got 200 HP fully upgraded, Elephant archers got 350 HP, even heavy archer cavs got 80 HP. A +2 atk bonus won't make any difference against them, which means the bonus is only significant against specific archer units : who got more HP than regular archer units, but not enough to absorb the excess damage. The units he used as an example for his ranking are pretty much the only ones against which the bonus will be usefull. (Which makes his test even more unreliable)

I agree it would give them a nice boost with all the counters they got nowadays... However imagine this : paladins possess 160 base HP, with bloodlines it raises to 180 HP The main question now is : does the 20% boost stack with bloodlines or not? If it doesn't : the HP will be raised to 212 If it does : the HP will then be raised to 216 Not much difference, but still important to notice. In comparison : Elite War wagons got 200 HP and Elite Battle Elephants 350 HP You'd get a paladin with 212-216 HP, 14 Attack, 2/2 armor With blacksmith upgrades : 18 Atk, 5/6 armor And this, for 60 Food and 75 Gold How the hell do you counter that ? I mean : War Wagons cost 110 wood and 60 Gold, and Battle Elephants 120 Food and 70 Gold...And these paladins would have more than 210 HP with it's already beefy stats for an inferior cost of these two units. A paladin with more than 210 HP would be far too OP for it's cost, so even as much as I'd like the franks to have a bit more chances in the current META, I can't agree with giving them Bloodlines being a good idea

​@@RoulicisThe War Wagons have range, use choke points, battle elephants still get more bang per pop point, then there's always pointy boys. That 20 extra HP would make Frank Paladins scary again, now all they have is a slightly better bloodlines. It definitely wouldn't make them OP though Considering that Franks have always been a one trick pony, at least that trick should be significant.

@@khatack I'm not saying that it wouldn't give them a nice boost, far from it. I'm just pointing out the fact that a 210+ HP paladin would be too good for it's price. Compared to other power-house units, like the elephants, war wagons, etc... Having these stats while costing only 60 food and 75 Gold would be a tad too OP for the game's balance. I can be wrong on that part, but there is a reason why Franks weren't given Bloodlines, and my guess is that it's related to this cost-effectiveness Issue

@@RoulicisThe Again, war wagons have range, battle elephants still provide more bang per pop point, they wouldn't be better and they wouldn't be OP.

@@khatack And again you are missing the point. Paladins won't necessarily be better in all terms than these power-house units (even though a paladin can easily beat a war wagon 1v1, for example). What I'm talking about is "cost-effectiveness", the relation between "what you pay for" and "what you get". Paladins are already strong units, but this strength comes at a significant cost compared to other units (especially on gold). However, even if the upgrade cost is one of the most pricy techs of the game, they provide good value for their individual price. The problems with giving the frank paladins the +20 HP from bloodlines is that you add tankiness to a unit who already got already the tankiest stat of all paladins of the game. Put it simply : you increase the efficiency of a unit who was already the most efficient out of all the civs who has access to it. Yes, there are power-house units (like the examples we used) who got as good or better stats than the paladin... But they also cost significantly more : twice the amount of food for the battle elephant, and nearly twice the same value, but in wood, for the war wagon. Putting the HP of tha Frank paladin to 210+ makes them better than the War wagon, and gives them 2/3 of the HP of a battle elephant...While still costing half of their respective prices. A paladin with this amount of HP will rekt a war wagon 1v1 pretty easily, and it will be even worse if we balance the costs (paladins are cheaper than WW), and even if 1 of these paladins won't beat 1 battle elephant...Again, they cost half it's price, and 2 of them may be able to. And I'm not even talking about the impact of their increased tankiness against more ordinary units. That's where the issue lies : if they give Franks bloodlines (even as much as I'd like them to) the Frank's paladin will have a too high value compared to the cost you're paying to get them, paladins that are also recruited much faster than for other factions (thanks to "Chivalry")

nah he is not