In this episode Trent examines claims made by Protestant speakers Mike Winger and Allen Parr about Catholicism being unbiblical. To support this channel visit: / counseloftrent Original video: • 6 MAJOR Religious Grou...
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@yeetyeetyeet2343 жыл бұрын
i am an orthodox, but i have much respect for you mr horn, keep defending our apostolic faiths and i hope our churches can come together one day.
@HodgePodgeVids13 жыл бұрын
Amen
@Lulue_903 жыл бұрын
🌹 😁
@PatrickSteil3 жыл бұрын
Amen! Praying for unity in God’s Truth! From the little research I have done on Orthodox, I am excited about what new Traditions y’all might bring to the table. We also need the Protestants for their zeal for evangelization and good praise and worship music! :)
@Swierczie3 жыл бұрын
Amen and respect, my brother!
@mx_moi19643 жыл бұрын
I agree! I pray for the reunification of our churches!
@jeromemccarthy42773 жыл бұрын
I've been Catholic for all of 12 weeks and I'm already fed up with these arguments...
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
God bless
@GratiaPrima_3 жыл бұрын
I remember that feeling! Lol welcome home 🙏🏻
@aidanlisney55463 жыл бұрын
Prayers, homie. You have my prayers.
@craigsherman44803 жыл бұрын
Welcome Home Mr. McCarthy!
@bernardokrolo22753 жыл бұрын
Get use to it bro..being catholich 1 day or 100 years protestant "argument"allways sound exactly same..
@Donnybrook103 жыл бұрын
On purgatory: I am a retired cop. A catholic Priest was our chaplain and he often rode with me and taught me much. I cherish our time together. Toward the end, he was suffering from cancer and was in a great deal of pain. I remember him wincing and saying a quiet prayer in my car one night. I asked if he was OK. He explained to me that he was applying his worldly pain to someone else's debt in Purgatory. This lesson gave me a much better understanding and I think this definitely qualified as a act. I think it's relevant to your point on this matter. Thank You Fr. Collins.
@vanorisk Жыл бұрын
unfortunately, your priest was wrong, friend. purgatory is not mentioned in the Bible and is not needed. Christ paid for all our sins.
@eddardgreybeard Жыл бұрын
@@vanorisk You don't get to rip out the book of maccabees and say purgatory isn't in the Bible. Protestants are also the only denomination of Christianity to reject the deuterocanonical books, all the other churches with actual apostolic roots to Christ and his disciples accept the deuterocanonical Canon of the old testament.
@vanorisk Жыл бұрын
@@eddardgreybeard The book of Maccabees is not an authentic book of the Bible.
@eddardgreybeard Жыл бұрын
@@vanorisk My point still stands, Protestants are the only Christians to say so. Based on the reasoning of people that deny the risen Lord.
@vanorisk Жыл бұрын
@@eddardgreybeard Since when is the majority always right? Nowhere in the Bible is there a verse stating purgatory is real. Seriously? You think protestants do not believe that our Lord rose from the dead?
@josephmiller36723 жыл бұрын
I saw this and immediately thought "Trent is gonna rebut this."
@cormac52533 жыл бұрын
Same lol
@thefiringsquadtfs63923 жыл бұрын
ME TOOO
@andrewmedina75883 жыл бұрын
Water is wet. Sky is blue. And Trent Horn is going to refute this.
@lukusmaximus3 жыл бұрын
Anyone can rebutt anything, doesn't mean the rebuttal is correct.
@josephmiller36723 жыл бұрын
@@lukusmaximus And anyone can say anything, that doesn't mean what they say is correct.
@MystoRobot3 жыл бұрын
Mike Winger: - "I don't want to misrepresent the Catholic Church" ...but sir, you keep doing that, continually.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂 It's just an intro to bashing and unending accusations. Most of his videos against Catholic church starts with that intro
@anthonycalipjo86693 жыл бұрын
Hahaha 😂😂, he says he don't want to misrepresent the Catholic church, do u hear yourself Mike buddy, let me tell you straight to your face Mr pastor, you cannot misrepresent nor represent the Catholic church because you're not a part of it...😂😅😄 You're a laughing stock buddy
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@anthonycalipjo8669 😂😂😂
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
Hi there, myself arun I will make it as short as possible I am a young catholic apologetic, you can call be beginner, I am searching for good frnds with whom I can engage discussions , Q&As sharing thoughts on catholic apologetics. If interested we can go ahead with any social media platform, or can you guide if you know any Thank you
@cafecomescrita3 жыл бұрын
@@TheMarymicheal there are so many out there! Catholic Answers forums are not perfect, but are a good place to start.
@Inari19873 жыл бұрын
When someone says Catholics don't believe grace or Christ are sufficient, then you know they don't understand Catholicism
@matthewoburke72023 жыл бұрын
Well said my friend.
@Moe-bb3bm3 жыл бұрын
They redifne the words, that's the issue.
@Inari19873 жыл бұрын
@@Moe-bb3bm Mike Winger misunderstood "merit" and as a result grossly misinterprets the Council of Trent
@Moe-bb3bm3 жыл бұрын
@@Inari1987 Brother read the New Testament which is the foundation of our faith , that is the foundation not Roman cannon or Pope decrees. New testament is closed cannon and even catholic leaders know that. You can't add or take away from it just build on it. It goes over offices, ordances and how the church is really supposed to meet, and it's nothing like a mass. That's why it was written down. 2 John clearly says don't change the basics ( paraphrasing)but apparently Catholics don't read their bibles and Hosea says people die because lack of knowledge. This is all in the douay rheims bible to. What part of idolitry don't people understand my friend. I don't care how many degrees someone has or what extra outside writtings say, if it don't match inspired New Testament scripture it's only an opinion. I'm not your enemy and I believe catholics love God too but they are decieved and it's obvious when you research it.
@Inari19873 жыл бұрын
@@Moe-bb3bm The New Testament made me Catholic. In fact I was using the New American Standard at the time. At the moment, I had that Bible in front of me. Very presumptuous of you to tell me to read the Bible when I was...well..reading the Bible.
@Reddishbrownhorse3 жыл бұрын
We agree on the early creeds of the church…except for the parts we don’t.
@fivelakeskitchenandbath94583 жыл бұрын
I think he forgot "we believe in one baptism for the FORGIVENESS OF SINS" and "one holy AND CATHOLIC church" lol I wish SO MUCH I could mentally accept protestantism...lol. I love how thet trust the Bible, even though it's this same church that says those books are reliable lol
@hullie75293 жыл бұрын
I'm a Catholic but I also go to an evangelical church on Sundays and they usually recite the Apostle's Creed, although they change the part that says "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church" to "I believe in the Universal Church".
@davidbates33533 жыл бұрын
@@hullie7529 Have you ever asked them what *else* the Church believed during this period of time? It's going to start looking very Catholic very quickly...
@IAMFISH923 жыл бұрын
“We agree on the early creeds of the church. Except we reject most of the canons of those councils that wrote and confirmed those creeds.” Uh…what??? 🤤 Silly Protestants.
@SperoinDeo3 жыл бұрын
@@hullie7529 Huh? It is a sin against the 1st Commandment, and thus a mortal sin, to give true worship to a false god or false worship to the true God. Protestantism falls in the second part of that.
@jackinix51453 жыл бұрын
I left a being a protestant church thirty years age with my husband to become a Catholic and never regretted it ,It felt like coming home .
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Welcome home! You made the right choice!
@heidiaraneta52112 жыл бұрын
Thank God...welcome to the Catholic Church ...🙏😊
@veekee752 жыл бұрын
@Jacki Nix yah, you are indeed home, but only earthly home that doesn't change anything about your salvation. Christians look forward to be home with our Heavenly Father, not back to religion that teach us to pray to Mary and submit ourselves to the so call "infallible" Pope.
@actuallicensedteacher1846 Жыл бұрын
@@veekee75 Heretic.
@TruthHasSpoken10 ай бұрын
@@veekee75 " submit ourselves to the so call "infallible" Pope." Don't you veekee "submit" yourself to the authority of your pastor to understand scripture? If not your pastor, who is your authority that you "submit" to, to understand any particular verse of scripture??
@takmaps3 жыл бұрын
The fact that Winger used the authority of the Creeds by the martyred Church fathers is mind blowing considering he side mouths them in the same video
@phoult373 жыл бұрын
It's the same with how protestants today will accept the Trinity, which was articulated by the Church fathers, but then reject those same fathers on other matters.
@zxcasdqwe123 жыл бұрын
Right. No sola scriptura in Creed.
@duckymomo79352 жыл бұрын
ECF aren’t infallible and we shouldn’t treat them as such… They didn’t agree on everything That said the RCC does not claim a monopoly on ECF or creeds and confessions…church history doesn’t start 1517
@phoult372 жыл бұрын
@Prasanth Thomas The word "trinity" is not in Scripture nor is the concept explicitly defined, which is why various trinitarian heresies have existed over the years. Church councils defined the Trinity as Christians understand it today, which is why non-Catholics are inconsistent in their sola scriptura.
@phoult372 жыл бұрын
@Prasanth Thomas If you are "shocked" by my position, then you have a very bland life. The text you give from Matthew specifies Baptism, but it does not explain the doctrine of the Trinity or the way in which the 3 divine persons relate to one another. This is why the Filioque caused division in the Church--the doctrine is not self-evident. So yes, there is Biblical evidence for the Trinity all throughout Scripture, but the doctrine itself required defining by Church Councils. You even acknowledged as much when you listed various heresies on the nature of the Trinity. My fundamental point, which you seem to be missing, is that protestants will accept the Trinitarian doctrine as defined by Church councils, but reject those same councils on other matters such as the Eucharist, Salvation & Grace, etc. I honestly don't understand your point of contention other than pedanticism.
@ZealousSeraphim3 жыл бұрын
It’s frustrating watching this and knowing I bought into a lot of their points when I first became a Christian. Now I’m an Orthodox Christian so I have my fair share of differences with Roman Catholicism, but so much of what he’s saying can also be said about the Orthodox Church and it’s such a misrepresentation of what the Church has always taught.
@windsound20102 жыл бұрын
Not sure if you heard another side of story: Mike Winger's response kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nq9xicWU0J-XoJc.html
@3leon3062 жыл бұрын
@@windsound2010 winger is kind of a clown and refuses to debate. Why take him seriously?
@eddardgreybeard Жыл бұрын
Exactly how i readjusted my approach to apologetics. Most Protestants forget Orthodoxy exists, and their beliefs functionally seek to invalidate the fullness of Christian tradition up until the reformation. They will unironically state that authentic Christianity didn't exist until the reformation
@RobertHallKoC3 Жыл бұрын
@@3leon306 That's not true. Mike has debated individuals, but he didn't do well so he wants to work on that. That should be admirable. Plus, calling someone a clown isn't helpful to the topic at all.
@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960 Жыл бұрын
So youre still a protestant but with pretty churches.
@CedanyTheAlaskan3 жыл бұрын
Would love to see you guys have a conversation. Mike was part of the reason I became a Christian and Trent is part of the reason I remained a Christian and now signing up for RCIA classes
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Thats fantastic!!!! Welcome home!!!
@By_YHWH.Gal472 жыл бұрын
Mike planted, Trent watered, God gave the growth! That's amazing to hear brother.
@windsound20102 жыл бұрын
Not sure if you heard another side of story: Mike Winger's response kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nq9xicWU0J-XoJc.html
@zelie11553 жыл бұрын
Whenever people talk about a belief in "Roman Catholocism" I want to say, "Well that is true in Eastern Catholocism too. We all follow the Pope idk"
@bernardokrolo22753 жыл бұрын
Thanks God that someone notice ..im alergic to this habit..during communisam in my country communist also call us "romancatholich"..
@zelie11553 жыл бұрын
@Empyreal I don't think I have ever really met someone who when I said I was Catholic they didn't know I meant Catholic. Catholic is catholic. I don't mean this in a snarky way. The term "Roman Catholic" actually was a slur for Catholics that Protestants made up because of the power of the Pope. Sometimes it is annoying, and sometimes it is frustrating. We are not the Roman Catholic Church, we are the Catholic Church. Roman Catholic refers to a part of Catholocism. We believe the same things, follow the same pope and love the same Christ in the Eucharist. God bless tho:)
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
@@zelie1155 I ended up with just saying "the Latin rite" instead but whenever it would come up it would only be among people who wouldn't have needed the clarification 🤔
@fivelakeskitchenandbath94583 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! My father is a Maronite catholic, my mom was Syriac orthodox, and me and my family worship as Byzantine catholics. "Roman" catholic is a misnomer from the English schism, as thet still wanted to be catholic, just English catholic. Our head is in Rome, but our patriarchy and liturgy is NOT!
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
@Empyreal We would say that the Church that Jesus founded, subsists in the [c]atholic Church. We don't or at least shouldn't deny that protestants are Christians, that's not the issue because every validly baptized person is part of the Church so we don't restrict that to the visible institution. When we refer to the Catholic Church, we're talking about the church referred to in the creed
@TheTrueNicklose3 жыл бұрын
Imagine if some game developers worked for a game company, left and started their own company using the knowledge and resources they've collected, and called the previous game company a cult.
@crossbearer6453 Жыл бұрын
Bingo
@daddybandit4431 Жыл бұрын
Imagine if the game company that they worked for, borrowed an engine and code from an indie company then proceeds to take credit as the sole owner of it. Meanwhile, those game developers went to go work at the indie company with the source code.
@wulfheort8021 Жыл бұрын
@@daddybandit4431Imagine making a completely inaccurate analogy.
@rahuldsouza28558 ай бұрын
Catholicism didnt start Christianity. With the false doctrine's one even doubts that catholicism is Christian. Wake up from your deception, read and study the Word, believe and be saved.
@studygodsword59378 ай бұрын
@@crossbearer6453 While my sins are being forgiven, you can continue to confess sins to a local man, and chant to a woman, for forgiveness !
@epcd70213 жыл бұрын
I will pray for u mr winger. I am a proud catholic from the Phillipines.
@FaithandMercy3193 жыл бұрын
Me, too...all these protestants accusations of the Catholics are a bunch of nonsense.
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Agreed!!!! My wife is a Filipina devout Catholic!!!
@dionysus70452 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 Google says otherwise. A commenter on a KZfaq video or reputable scholary sources? I'd choose the latter.
@dionysus70452 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 No. I'd choose a reliable scholarly source than YOU boy. You ain't the word of the truth, only the Bible is. Not you, not anybody. Only the Bible so don't act funny with me.
@michi-bi2 жыл бұрын
Praying for others is good. pride in ones self isnt good, it leads to arrogance and not being humble... If you knew you were a sinner in need of God's grace. you would renounce yourself and love God and others differently. That's a step into what God meant to be born again. As a saying i learned, The church is like a Hospital for Sinners to be saved.
@AllanKoayTC3 жыл бұрын
I was once a Catholic who thought like a protestant. I had problems with the Papacy, with the rituals and the mysticism. but in just the last couple of years, as I delved deeply into the study of Catholicism, I realised that I was wrong about everything. and i realised the hatred for and criticism of the Catholic Church are the result of misunderstandings, misinformation and disinformation, and more often than not, erroneous readings of Scripture. Which this rebuttal of Trent's proves. recently, protestant apologist Frank Turek, whose work i like, pointed out that there were already thousands of Christians before a single word of the New Testament was written. he probably didn't realise that he was negating sola scriptura there. because if it's true that only Scripture alone is needed and not Apostolic tradition and succession, what about these early Christians who didn't have the Bible? the fact that Jesus Himself didn't write a single word but taught and preached orally and told His disciples to go out and preach to the world, that really says a lot. I recently did Trent's short course on the protestant reformation, and it struck me that just shortly after they separated from the Church, the protestants were already arguing among themselves who's right and who's wrong and which interpretation of Scripture is correct. it's no surprise then that today there are over 40,000 denominations across the world. let us pray that our protestant brothers and sisters will come to understand and accept the Catholic Church. Because the Tradition is beautiful, the Faith is beautiful, and God's grace and mercy are beautiful.
@SussyPniffer2 жыл бұрын
I was in(i guess im still in a little) a similar situation. I was raised in a Catholic family and attended Catholic schools up till freshman year of high school. I stopped going to Catholic school in my sophomore year which distanced me away from the Church. I eventually stopped everything and gave up and felt overwelmed and lost on who to believe(mostly about the pope). After years, I am now currently researching again the deuterocanonicals and also apostolic succession. I found my bible from freshman year in highschool and it has a brief histoy timeline about the creation of the bible and the apocrypha. Its a catholic new American so it includes the deuterocanonicals. I also was just not as educated about the main differences between Catholicism, Orthodox, and Protestants. I was raised Catholic so everything we did in church and prayer was natural to me. I didnt know that Protestants were that much that different when it comes to what prayers Catholics have and others don't. But the more I learn and study about all of them the more I like Catholicism because the history and traditionalism. I also agree to not mess with God's word by taking out books because of mainly Martin Luther. I agree with the 7 sacraments. I was baptized while I was baby and i was confirmed in 8th grade. I'm still trying to understand how our current system for the papacy and how the power is distributed to determine how we practice Catholicism.
@taemi55072 жыл бұрын
@@SussyPniffer I'm also in the process of trying to understand and follow the teachings of Catholic Church. I was also raised Catholic and my high school was Catholic. But I'm realizing how I barely understood any of our teachings beyond the gospel (Jesus dying for our sins etc.). I didn't understand (still don't enough) where reasons for Church authority, papacy, dogmas about Mary and sacraments come from. But I do hope to become better now. I also looked at general arguments for Christianity so I can say why I believe it. I just wanted to say you're not alone and I hope we'll all grow in faith and understanding.
@davidpo5517 Жыл бұрын
Not sure you’re actually open to any answers to those points you bring up but here’s one anyways. The earliest Christians didn’t have the New Testament written down. They had the apostles who wrote the New Testament right there teaching them directly. Apostles who had walked and talked and learned from Jesus in the flesh. The original Apostles didn’t use the New Testament because they were teaching it, directly from what Jesus had taught them as the Holy Spirit gave them remembrance. It became written down as they died off, or as ppl realized Jesus likely wasn’t returning in their lifetimes. So to preserve the teachings from change, they wrote them all down. That’s where Sola Scriptura comes in. We can verify that these teachings were what people who physically met and learned from God taught. Because of these they hold special absolute authority. It’s not that other written works can’t be used, or that the Holy Spirit doesn’t speak today, but they lack the same authority as what we know to have come directly from God. After all, if you can’t believe what the ones who walked with Jesus say about Him, you definitely can’t believe what someone who never met Him face to face says.
@AllanKoayTC Жыл бұрын
@@davidpo5517 hi. yes, you got it right about the early Christians. and thanks for explaining why Protestants believe in sola scriptura. it clears things up a bit. however, it doesn't really prove that the Bible alone is the sole authority. the Apostles didn't get together and decide to write everything down to hand down the authority in written form. in fact, all the New Testament documents were written in separate locations at different times. there was no concerted effort or a collective decision by the Apostles. and Jesus never instructed anyone to write down anything. plus the fact that the Bible itself doesn't say Scripture is the only authority. in fact, the Bible states the many other authoritative ways that instruction is given and the handing down of authority and Apostolic succession (laying of hands, bishops, etc). also consider that the writings of the New Testament was compiled together only much much later, and the canon was defined only in the 4th century by the Catholic Church. the fact remains, Sacred Tradition gave us Sacred Scripture, hence both are equally important and both go hand-in-hand. before there was Sacred Scripture written down, there was Sacred Tradition. hope this helps to explain why we Catholics don't believe in sola scriptura.
@cruzgomes5660 Жыл бұрын
It should also be noted that Johannes Gutenberg didn't invent the printing press until 1436, and literacy didn't become widespread (in Europe at least) until the Age of Enlightenment. So if God wanted humanity to rely on sola scriptura, people would naturally have a hard time doing so until we naturally came to the historical development needed to have personal bibles and read them on their own. Otherwise, people would have needed the bible read out to them, likely from an authoritative or educated person.
@BeauBeckwith3 жыл бұрын
As a convert from the protestant world who became catholic because of a deeper understanding of logic and history, it's very frustrating to listen to the overly simplistic arguments and/or fallacious statements about Catholic Christianity from this guy. It took me many days of coming back to this to finally finish, he gets me so angry. Thank you, Trent, for your charitable rebuttal.
@vanorisk Жыл бұрын
are you okay?
@wulfheort8021 Жыл бұрын
Don't live in anger, the adversary wants us to be bitter and resentful. Rather be worried about Winger's soul than being angry at him.
@BeauBeckwith Жыл бұрын
@@wulfheort8021 yeah, thanks. It was a very momentary feeling. Now I just shake my head laughing
@wulfheort8021 Жыл бұрын
@@BeauBeckwith That's good, those types of guys get me too quite often, as long as we don't linger in it. God bless you.
@redbird90003 ай бұрын
I’m sorry but you have been misled. You are responsible for studying God’s word. When you learn the truth, you will learn that Peter is not the Rock. Christ is the Rock 1 Corinthians 3:11 • Adding doctrines is forbidden Deuteronomy 4:2 • There aren’t any officiating new covenant priests. We have a new ministry in the new covenant. Ephesians 4:11 • God does not show favoritism Romans 2:11 -- there is no evidence in the scriptures that the church was built on a human. ****Equality amongst the apostles**** “Ye are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.” (****Ephesians 2:20****) “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” (****Revelation 21:14****). • Peter was no different than the others. • Mary nor the saints can hear prayers. There’s only one mediator in heaven between God & Man. 1 Timothy 2:5 ► For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, There is so much more wrong with that church. I can’t list it all but they are no longer a church that belongs to God. That’s why they are blessing same sex couples. • In order to receive salvation, we must all repent and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior. We need no Eucharist, no veneration of Mary, no long list of good works, no baptism regeneration, no sacrament of reconciliation, no rosary, no pope, no papacy, no belief in Peter as the Rock 1 Corinthians 3:11, no man-made doctrine, no priests, no infallible magisterium, no Vatican, no communion of saints, no catechisms, no Marian dogmas, no transubstantiation, but only by faith through grace are we saved. ****Ephesians 2:8**** "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast".
@odessaxmusicclips60283 жыл бұрын
I like how Allen Parr had a lot to say on this matter. Very thought provoking indeed.
@windsound20102 жыл бұрын
Not sure if you heard another side of story: Mike Winger's response kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nq9xicWU0J-XoJc.html
@canibezeroun1988 Жыл бұрын
Lol they each took turns in this one
@damianwhite504 Жыл бұрын
Big Al nods very well. I wish he would settle down, he goes on and on, never letting Mike Winger get a word in
@susand3668 Жыл бұрын
I like Allen Parr! He was so very excited about the Shroud of Turin three weeks ago! So, the two years of prayer for him since this video came out may be beginning to show fruit! Let us continue to pray for both of these men!!
@nickswf3 жыл бұрын
How did we get the Bible in the first place? This isn’t a book Protestants put together but rather edited after the fact from the early Christians … who btw were having Mass and communion at the time.
@andtou13423 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@fivelakeskitchenandbath94583 жыл бұрын
We don't trust the Catholic church....but we trust the book thet canonized! Lol
@EpoRose13 жыл бұрын
I tried to ask this once in a FB thread- “Who gave us the Bible? Who put it together?” This person would just answer “God.” I didn’t believe their were people who thought the Bible (KJV) literally dropped out of the sky, all put together. But apparently so?
@vaseman36392 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 The Bible is not just to the Jews but to all. Romans 11:13 St. Paul writes: 13 “Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry” St. Paul was “an apostle to the gentiles”, which makes sense, as he and the other apostles went all over the world to convert them to Christianity, not Judaism. And how was the Catholic Church created in the 4th Century? You’d be discrediting the 28 popes before the 4th Century(not including St. Peter), along with the 21 Patriarchs of Antioch before the Edict of Milan(again not including St. Peter), the 17 Patriarchs of Alexandria(excluding St. Mark the Evangelist) before the Edict of Milan, etc. The Church began with Matthew 16:18 by Christ which was then followed up by Pentecost. God bless.
@timothypeterson47814 ай бұрын
It's almost like we don't accept the Catholic tradition that the early church was specifically the Catholic Church...
@lukewayson70622 жыл бұрын
I'm only 19 minutes into this video, and this has the absolute best explanation of the faith/works "dilemma" I have ever heard. Thank you Mr. Horn!
@Scotchism3 жыл бұрын
Trent vs Winger on Pints of Aquinas needs to happen. The bearing of false witness has gone on long enough.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
Yes, it damaged so much
@mx_moi19643 жыл бұрын
Yeah but Winger doesn’t like to debate
@stevenchavez59793 жыл бұрын
If he can't handle How to be Christian channel he could never handle Trent in a debate.
@bassman_00743 жыл бұрын
Trent challenged him to a debate before and Winger declined then acted like it never happened.
@Normicgander3 жыл бұрын
Winger is a coward...
@chuckmowry59513 жыл бұрын
This video reminds me how important it is not to tell other people what it is they really believe. It also reinforces how easy it is to interpret a piece of text...biblical or otherwise...
@WilliamNoelle Жыл бұрын
Exactly, people like Mike Winger would tell you they know more about your faith than you do.
@wulfheort8021 Жыл бұрын
protestants absolutely love to tell Catholics what Catholics do and believe.
@droddick20063 жыл бұрын
Mike Winger: "It's correct - it's what I would believe." Religion of Me?
@DanUtley3 жыл бұрын
Seriously. Never mind that it’s the Catholic Church that ironed out all the creeds they arrogantly tell us we “get right.”
@1sanitat13 жыл бұрын
Protestantism is precisely "the religion of me"
@whitevortex83233 жыл бұрын
@@DanUtley ?????
@penguinman98373 жыл бұрын
Mike does this frequently, leaning on his own interpretation as the authoritative standard all should be judged by and will make up his own definitions of terms to support that. In general he does good work but if you have to debate him, make sure you take him to task for his made up definitions.
@DanUtley3 жыл бұрын
@@whitevortex8323 Winger was referring to the early Creeds and congratulating the Catholic Church that got it right because it’s what HE would believe, without realizing or acknowledging that any truth he believes about Jesus is only because the Catholic Church ironed it all out in the first place in the first few centuries.
@nicholasolsen46343 жыл бұрын
isn’t Allen Parr the one who said 2 Maccabees can’t be canon because they said stuff he doesn’t agree with lol
@aahlstrom933 жыл бұрын
Pope Parr has decreed it so.
@bernardokrolo22753 жыл бұрын
He realy said that?that is to much even for protestant..lol..one of best argument abouth Biblical canon
@nicholasolsen46343 жыл бұрын
@@bernardokrolo2275 he didn’t say those exact words but his argument for why it’s not canon was “because it teaches that you can pray for the dead which is wrong” which is obviously a ridiculously absurd circular logic
@bernardokrolo22753 жыл бұрын
@@nicholasolsen4634 o..i see that you are catholich Nicholas..you are precise..but i get your point..same as he said im determening what goes in canon..who watching on raindeers when you commenting on youtube?
@felixcharles97733 жыл бұрын
Even Catholic scholars realize that the deuterocanonical books have a different standing in the Old Testament compared to, say, the Pentateuch. 2 Maccabees may have been included in the canon, as seems to be the case with the Septuagint and Vulgate, or it may not have been, as with the Masoretic Text or the Codex Vaticanus. It’s a little more complicated than most Catholic apologists tend to present it as.
@cosmiccatholic28383 жыл бұрын
Great discussion on merit. I am so tired of hearing that Catholics teach that we earn our salvation or earn grace. It's a shame that so many are deceived on this point, and I hope that Catholics are equipped to correct this grave error.
@PatrickSteil3 жыл бұрын
It seems to me that the way Protestants talk about Salvation is like a legal decree “Thou are now saved” rather than entering into a life long relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit where we will ha e our ups and downs, get to know God better, reject him sometimes, etc and yes we could even reject him outright. The Mass, Sacraments and Sacramentals (acts of piety) are all things we should do to “practice” our Faith, stay in love with God and keep us string against sin. I am a recent revert and I see this happening in me!!! I am closer to Jesus than ever and my will (and impatience and stubbornness, etc, etc) is becoming less so that His will becomes primary. Not sure how they could refute the effects of the Catholic teaching in a devoted Catholic. And I think we need to be prepared not just with apologetics, but also the impact of God’s grace on our lives.
@mattduin71443 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately most of Allen Parr's videos are boring arguments against catholicism with tired points that have been refuted a million times over the centuries. Glad Trent put this video together he can't be beaten in a debate
@ironymatt3 жыл бұрын
All Trent does is tell the truth, and the truth cannot be beaten. "Error, indeed is never set forth in its naked deformity, lest, being thus exposed, it should at once be detected. But it is craftily decked out in an attractive dress, so as, by its outward form, to make it appear to the inexperienced more true than truth itself." - St Irenaeus, whose feast day is today, June 28th
@relentlessrhythm27743 жыл бұрын
He does have some good content, although I often disagree with him.
@freemind97213 жыл бұрын
Just read the Bible. No way the teaching from the Bible line up with Catholic Church doctrine.
@emekakelvin90273 жыл бұрын
@@freemind9721 I believe you need to listen again to Trent and perhaps more attentively. He just refuted Mike and Allen using the Bible.
@mattduin71443 жыл бұрын
@@freemind9721 if you look into what the catholic church teaches and why it teaches those things you will find all catholic teaching does line up with the bible. Secondly, the bible was compiled by the catholic church. It is a catholic book
@reverseosmosis14843 жыл бұрын
Finally!!!! Before I found out about the Catholic Church, I used to eat Mike Winger's stuff up. I was SOOOOO scared to listen to anyone Catholic because of the stuff I heard! Thank God I am leaving Protestantism and becoming Catholic AS SOON AS I CAN!!! Just found a Parish and waiting for RCIA!
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Welcome home!!!
@missveronica83932 жыл бұрын
Thanks be to God, welcome home 😊❤️
@veekee752 жыл бұрын
@Reverse Osmosis from your display pic, people will know you are Catholic. Christians don't display idols, even in a form of "jesus"! Idolatry is a serious sin, be warned! And when people tells you "welcome home", don't be too happy, because the real home is in heaven with our Heavenly Father, not with Catholics.
@reverseosmosis14842 жыл бұрын
@@veekee75 You speak like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Jesus established His Church around 2,000 years ago. Matthew 16 makes clear the Catholic Church is that Church along with so many other truths in Scripture and history. I do not know what your beliefs are, but rejecting 2,000 years of teaching and Tradition carefully passed down from the time of Christ is prideful and foolish. I think if you took the time to find out what idolatry actually is, along with so many other words you may also misunderstand, you could finally be set free by the Truth, as our Lord Jesus Christ promised. If you do not think about God, His Church, His Mother, people, society, morals, etc. like Jesus, then you are wrong. Take the time to study and find out what the Apostles actually believed and taught. Protestantism was made up a few hundred years ago by an apostate. Do you really want to try to understand Sacred Scripture from your own understanding or that of someone other than the 1st century Jews that spread those teachings of Christ? May God love you and keep you.
@veekee752 жыл бұрын
@@reverseosmosis1484 don't preached to me what the Catholic Church wants you to believe. Most are teachings of men, not from Jesus and the Apostles. Idolatry is what God hates, and where can you find the most idols now? In a Catholic Church. Cleaned up your church before trying to preach to others. Praying to Mary is an idol worshipping, this is not a tradition nor a teaching from our Lord Jesus. There are so many pagans traditions, rituals, rites and practices in Catholics, none of them are taught by Jesus or His apostles. There is no truth in them at all. You need to truly repent and see clearly what is the real Gospel.
@stooch663 жыл бұрын
Mike has never taken the time to research the Catholic rebuttals of these warmed over assertions he makes. The pride he demonstrates in laughing about Catholic teaching which has been the result of trillions of prayers over 2000 years is quite frightening. I pray for him to take the time to sit down and talk with Trent or other Catholic apologists and truly understand what he is trying to speak on. He is interpreting the council documents and the Catechism on his own the way he interprets the Bible: to fit his already formed theology.
@marianafaria69603 жыл бұрын
If he does and actually understand Catholic teaching, he'll become catholic. Let's pray for that!
@kadeshswanson39913 жыл бұрын
@@marianafaria6960 and for that reason he may never talk with Trent. He has too many earthly ties to give up by hearing the truth.
@freemind97213 жыл бұрын
Catholic Church doctrine is not from the Bible. It’s all man made. It’s more of a superstitious tradition.
@kadeshswanson39913 жыл бұрын
@@freemind9721 😂🤣 that's one of the greatest jokes I've ever heard lol. You realize just how devoid of reality your statement is?
@stooch663 жыл бұрын
@@freemind9721 the Bible was built from sacred tradition. The two are perfectly aligned. Seek out the truth. Watch Trent’s videos. You will find it. I am not going to argue with this point. Have done it far too many times. Don’t have the energy. All I’ll say is: Christ gave us the Church, not a book. The book came out of the apostolic tradition. If you start with the book and never seek out more, you are starting from a point 300 years after Pentecost. God bless you
@shannonrouston32982 жыл бұрын
The distinction between “earning” and “meriting” was SUPER helpful, thank you Trent!! Praying for you, your family, and your ministry!!
@TpGnnr2 жыл бұрын
I don't see how you can say it was helpful when it was completely inaccurate. In his absurd analogy, he completely ignores his promise to the gardener to pay him for labor and his [presumed] lack of a promise to his child. To merit is to earn otherwise the Catholic church's own writings make no sense.
@eddardgreybeard Жыл бұрын
@@TpGnnr No, because God laid out the plan and the terms. You need to read the parable of the unprofitable servant in the book of Luke. Even the three laborers that got the same pay vs hours worked is a good example of what we mean. Works are expected, they are demanded, and he gives his judgement according to them, but because they are mandatory you aren't earning your salvation because you're just doing what's expected of you. Precisely why Paul said "it's debt" in the book of Romans.
@MichaelAChristian111 ай бұрын
@@eddardgreybeardThe unprofitable servant was either TOTALLY FORGIVEN or HE PAID IT ALL in hell in torments. Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j5OKksl6tdzUdnU.html
@JonHuhnMedical7 ай бұрын
That's weird.... Mike specifically said Catholicism isn't a cult.
@carissstewart32113 жыл бұрын
Outside of Hell, there is no pain like that in Purgatory. Outside of Heaven, there is no joy like that in Purgatory. Thanks be to God for Purgatory, which promises me genuine sanctity despite my brokenness.
@missveronica83932 жыл бұрын
This is such a great way to put it, I'll be stealing this... 😉❤️
@carissstewart32112 жыл бұрын
@@sethelmore5759 yes it does.
@carissstewart32112 жыл бұрын
@@sethelmore5759 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 Can't refer to Heaven because there are imperfections to be "burned up"; can't refer to Hell because "he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." Clearly then, this refers to a state after death where one is exposed to a purifying fire before receiving his reward in Heaven - Catholics call this state Purgatory. Now the burden is on you: Biblical evidence for Sola Scriptura, please.
@carissstewart32112 жыл бұрын
@@sethelmore5759 "this rejects Jesus' identity" - How so? - "as it is clearly stated there is only heaven and hell" - where? - "you definitely misinterpreted that scripture" - in what way? Other passages point to the reality of Purgatory as well - Matthew 5:25-26, for example. The fact of the matter is that Protestant tradition states there is no Purgatory, so you just assume that is the "biblical" position. (Nevermind that the Bible is a Catholic book.) And when presented with evidence to the contrary, you merely dismiss it without offering any countervailing argument. And once again I ask for clear biblical evidence for Sola Scriptura.
@jamesmc04 Жыл бұрын
Good summary.
@Joshharrison2243 жыл бұрын
47:21 Mike Winger says “Prove your Church with my heresy” Which is the intellectual equivalent “Show me a Miracle and I, an Athiest, will believe in God.
@michaellawlor56253 жыл бұрын
William Albrecht took him to school on his channel yesterday.
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
I'm going through his video right now, it's baffling how surface level these people's excuses against doctrines like purgatory are
@michaellawlor56253 жыл бұрын
@@Qwerty-jy9mj Just really bad arguments, and what's worse, they think they are good. 😕
@hervedavidh41173 жыл бұрын
Really, I watched the video! Pastor Mike has no consistency at all. And his level of knowledge about the history of christianity is very very low. Watered down theology results on such lack of rigor!
@rubenmartinez43463 жыл бұрын
I swear you are born for this! You have so much calmness and charity when I would not be so calm. God bless!
@christian_gamer_guy64472 жыл бұрын
He is a wolf teaching false things and leading people away from truth.
@christian_gamer_guy64472 жыл бұрын
@Prasanth Thomas "You sure?" I'm sure he's leading people astray, I'm not SURE that he's doing it knowingly and on purpose, but he has read enough scripture and taught enough that he SHOULD know better. "If Catholicism isn't true, you have no reason to think the Bible is!(Well, the Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church-" Hah... no. There were canons established before the council of Rome, and the gospels and letters written by the Apostles were organically accepted as scripture, as well as Peter affirming Paul's writings as scripture in 2 Peter 3:16. However, even IF you're correct that the Council of Rome was what solidified the canon of scripture in the minds of Christians, it doesn't mean that everything the Catholic church claims or does until the end of time is biblical or right. That's just fallacious and wrong thinking. The Catholic church and their leaders have no assurance of infallibility, and when we see them teaching false doctrine like purgatory and twisting the gospel to say that we need to work for God's grace, they are to be marked as false teachers and avoided as Romans 16:17 says. *WHY* would we have verses like that and others, warning us about false teachers if we could not read and understand God's word rightly well enough to discern a false gospel from the true? Trust His word, not the pope.
@christian_gamer_guy64472 жыл бұрын
@Prasanth Thomas "That is based on the assumption that everyone who reads the Bible should find your view obvious. Which is only your assumption" Scripture does have a specific, correct way to interpret it. We let the clear parts of scripture interpret the unclear. If you start with scripture and ONLY the presuppositions that scripture affords you because we are specifically told, things like, God is good, He is the creator, He is loving, we should all come to the same conclusions on passages. "That is just nonsense. There is no way you can accept the Council of Rome and deny the Council of Trent. If Trent is wrong and fallible, there is no way you should trust your NT canon-" You can say it's "just nonsense" but you're flat wrong. There is no reason to think that different people, hundreds of years later adding to scripture are people that are ordained by God to do what they're doing. Again, I think scripture establishes itself and that the Catholic church coming out and saying "This is what the canon is" helped solidify that for people, but it doesn't mean that whatever the church calls scripture is scripture or whatever it says is true, is true. We have scripture to help us avoid false teaching and as a foundation to keep us from being led astray. "Romans 16:17 asks us to watch out for "those who cause division"- who actually caused division here???" The person that truly causes division in the church is the one that teaches false things. We CANNOT be united under false teaching. If you're leading a church, and you start teaching false things, and I and my family leave, it is YOU that is dividing the church. "Look dude, The so called ' Faith alone' doctrine is nonsense- the only place in the Bible where the words 'faith alone' appears is James 2:24" There is much in scripture about salvation. If you understand it, then you should understand that merely trying to find the phrase "faith alone" doesn't really have much bearing on what scripture teaches overall, especially when the context of James 2 is that if you don't have outward evidence of your faith in Christ, you claiming you have faith isn't really justified, just like if you SAY you hope someone in need is clothed and fed, but you do nothing to help them be clothed and fed, you are likely not genuine in your claim to care about their wellbeing. And yes, we have to abide in Jesus. Remain in Him. It's like He described with the soils; we can let the world or our past or all kinds of things choke out God's word; destroy our faith. We can walk away from the truth of God, and trade it in for a lie, and God will give us over to our sinful desires, as Romans 1 says. Sin is deceptive, and can lead us away from the truth. Also, we are to be imagers of God, witnesses for those who are not yet trusting Him, salt and light to this world to point people to the savior. But nothing about doing good saves us, or is required for salvation. James' point is that the only he shows his faith is genuine is by what he does; by his good works. It's somewhat common sense. If you know someone who says they're a Christian and they have faith, but their life doesn't exhibit in any way that their being transformed by the renewing of their mind, and there is no real fruit of the Spirit in them, and constantly putting on the flesh instead of the Spirit, then it's likely they are not genuine in their claim of faith. "And Purgatory is a Scriptural Truth- all throughout the Bible is the prescence of an intermediate state" 1 Corinthians 3 is about the quality of our works, as believers, being tested when we die. This has nothing to do with salvation, or being "cleansed" or "purified", as classic teaching on purgatory teaches. The works of the believer are tested to see whether their will be rewards received by them, or if their works will be burnt up. Because we are saved by God's grace through our faith, and genuine faith will produce works, we will all have something either burning or earning a reward, but there is clearly nothing here about cleansing. "I would love to see what you think of Matt. 5:26?" I have encountered Catholics thinking this has something to do with purgatory before, and it's confusing to me because there is nothing at all here about salvation or eternity or anything of the sort. Looking at the context, Jesus is walking through a series of laws and showing how they apply more deeply than we thought they did, while correcting some traditions as well. This ultimately culminates in Him telling us to love our enemies and to try and imitate God; to be perfect as He is perfect. Verses 21-26 then are a small part of this, revealing that you can be guilty of murder without ever killing someone, because your attitude towards someone matters, especially with other disciples (believers). He encourages us to have the humility to recognize when we've given somewhen reason for a legitimate offense against us, and to go to them and be reconciled to them. Verses 25-26 are a word of wisdom to us and somewhat a repetition of what was just said, to take care when we've wronged someone and deal with it as quickly as possible, because the longer we wait, it's very likely the worse the consequences will be. That's the point of this passage.
@christian_gamer_guy64472 жыл бұрын
@Prasanth Thomas “'Clear' and 'unclear' are subjective properties and what is 'clear' to you is 'unclear' to someone else.” That's just not the case. At least not always, by any stretch. And the more of the whole of scripture you understand, and certain presuppositions that can and should be held, like God is good, and He is love, the more you have at your disposal to help inform your interpretation. Not to mention Jesus promised to send us the Spirit of truth that will guide us into all truth, according to Jesus in John 16:13. “f you want to understand a verse- you have to look at its immediate context” I agree 100%. “Well, the same standard of authority(by the Catholic Church, by Bishops of Apostolic Succession, called by a Pope)” The Catholic church doesn't have and never had any greater authority than any other group of believers has. They are not apostles taught by God in person. THEY, did not DECIDE what books were scripture, they publicly recognized what was scripture. There's a big difference. “There is no way a collection of letters scattered all over Christendom would make a Canon 'by itself'.” Nothing about any of this is happening on it's own... this is GOD's word we're talking about. He can establish and protect His word however He likes. “A notable example is the letter to the Laodiceans, as witnessed in Colossians 4:16” Many people think this is simply referring to Ephesians or Galatians and that some of the letters were addressed to more of an area that a single gathering of believers. Either way, in saying all this it seems you are arguing for the Catholic church to be the ones to decide what is scripture, as if God isn't orchestrating circumstances and helping proliferate and spread the letters/books that He wants us to call scripture. “Having a bible alone isn't gonna keep everything right.” This is terrible thinking, and shows a lack of either understanding or a lack of concern for what scripture actually says. Romans 1:18-20 says that the “wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse .” We don't even need the bible to know the gospel, we ALL are without excuse because God has made it plain to ALL of us what may be known about Him. His word helps reveal more to us, but we are perfectly able to know and understand what may be known about God even without the Bible, let alone “apostolic tradition”. The traditions in 2 Thessalonians are obviously the teachings that Paul was teaching, not some kind of unwritten special rules. He was simply saying whether I've just said it, or I've written it to you, hold fast to those teachings. He was an apostle taught by Jesus personally, as he mentions in Galatians... not exactly the same as the leaders of the RCC. “Protestantism denies Apostolic Tradition ("by word of mouth") entirely.” Not if Paul or one of the apostles wants to tell us something, and yet even THEN, there are restrictions on what we should accept from even THEM, as Paul points out in Galatians, something that doesn't make sense with your insisting on blindly trusting a denomination because they claim to have authority. “It talks about works playing part in Justification.” The problem is, this “justification” is not the same as us being justified by God, this is obviously, due to the context, saying that someone's claim to have faith is justified, as in, legitimate or seen as genuine, by works, and not by claiming to have faith. In the same way, a person who says they care about people who need help needs to actually try and help them, and not merely say “go and be warmed and filled”. When you don't actually try and help warm them and fill them, you show that you don't actually care. When you claim to have faith but there are no works we see by which we can justify your faith claim, it is likely your faith is dead, or not real. Actual faith has a walk of obedience of some sort attached to it. This does not at all that God is justifying us by works, He IS however using our actions or works as evidence of our faith, as we see Him do with Abraham in Genesis 22:12 “'Do not lay a hand on the boy,' he said. 'Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.'” That's all James is saying. “What exactly does 'it is very likely the worse consequences will be' mean?” It means do not let the sun go down on your anger, or the anger of one you've wronged. Take care of something you're responsible for before you are taken to court and punished in an official way. Don't let hard feelings fester, use wisdom and deal with problems with haste so that they don't become a bigger problem. “the Judge is the Lord and officer is His Angels. I can't think of any other meaning-” Haha, you can't think of the possibility that what it says, is what it means? Why should we think this has some kind of other meaning? He's talking about being reconciled to someone that is physically taking you to court, in the physical world, with regular judge. Why would this mention a person that is taking you to court, and then switch the earthly court mid-sentence with God being the judge there? Obviously God is the ultimate judge, but that doesn't mean this verse is talking about God throwing you in prison until you pay the last penny of your debt... we can't PAY our debt, by the way, that's the whole reason Jesus had to come and be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God. “if it speaks of some human courts, then there would be no moral message in the parable.” Oh, really? So we wouldn't have the message that your attitude toward your brother matter more than you thought, and that you might be guilty of murder, depending on how you're thinking about and treating your brethren? We wouldn't have the instruction to worship God with a clear conscience or the wisdom of dealing with issues where we've wronged someone before things get out of hand? We have all that from the plain reading of the text, and we don't have to insert some strange form of purgatory onto the text. “So, a temporary non-earthly punishment: That is literally what Purgatory is.” Ok, but this, is blasphemy. Jesus was crushed for our sins. He paid the price. The punishment that brought us peace was upon HIM. We are counted as righteous in Christ. This is a huge problem for purgatory, I hope you can see. ANY church teaching this needs to be rebuked, marked, and avoided. “First off, when the metaphor of fire is brought up in Scripture” ...And it's not brought up here. Note that there is no purifying mentioned. At all. You are bringing that understanding from elsewhere, instead of actually looking at what it says in the context. And what it actually SAYS, is that the fire will test the quality of each person's works; it either survives if it was built on the foundation which is Jesus, or it is burned up. There is NO purifying or cleansing. Even IF the fire represented purifying, the works are separated from the person. The person is not going through the fire. It is merely the works that are being tested and surviving or being burnt up, NOT the person, so this STILL cannot possibly have anything to do with your teaching or purgatory.
@christian_gamer_guy64472 жыл бұрын
@Prasanth Thomas “Well, the Christians who followed the Decrees of the Council of Jerusalem(Acts 15) does certainly have more authority than the Judaisers” ...And the council at Jerusalem was made up of the very apostles I mentioned previously.... “If only the Apostles taught by God are having authority- both Paul and Matthias wouldn't have.” I don't know about Matthias; he's not said to have written any scripture, and there are different kinds of apostles, as Apostle means “sent ones”. However, Paul WAS taught by Jesus through revelation. Galatians 1:12 “I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” He didn't even confirm with any disciples for 3 years. “because we have legitimate Apostolic Succession- “ Ya don't. I don't believe your “unbroken chain”. And the thing is, even if I did, IT DOESN'T EXCUSE TEACHING A FALSE GOSPEL. “6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!” (Galatians 1:6-8). The Catholic Church has twisted scripture to allow for a made up thing called purgatory that says we can actually go there and suffer for sins, AND pay the penalty (!!!) when that was THE WHOLE POINT of Jesus coming, dying, and raising. Not to mention the confused adding of works as a way to MERIT God's grace. There's no way around it; it IS a different gospel. “if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” This sounds like any other replacement of leaders within any church, I don't understand why you think it's special? And again, the RCC teaches a different gospel. It doesn't matter if they were the original Apostles themselves or angels from heaven, they are to be avoided. “then Catholicism(along with the rest of Christianity) is false. Because then Scripture won't be true.” Huh? If God created scripture and established and spread it organically, then Christianity is false? What? “Rom. 1:18-20 speaks about the 'godless', ie those that lead careless lives, not someone of any other religion.” You conveniently avoid the point. Even THEY have a clear understanding of “what may be known about God”. Verse 20 says that they know and have seen God's invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature. The rest of scripture also makes it clear that we can learn SO MUCH about God just by what He has made, because, we don't need the Roman Catholic Church in any sense. “So, a person living in a remote Island in Papua New Guinea would know that a man named Jesus of Nasereth is the Son of God and He rose from the dead without even the Bible?” Knowledge about Jesus and His resurrection, is NOT the gospel. Jesus fulfilled the law, is the fullness of the gospel, and He came as a human, like us in every way, so that he could be a fitting high priest for us, but believing the gospel of God doesn't require knowing Jesus even exists. Revelation 14:6-7 “6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the *eternal gospel* to proclaim to those who live on the earth-to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7 He said in a loud voice, “ *Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water* .” The Gospel is eternal. The simple truth of the gospel is trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ That's the gospel. Trust God. Fear the Lord. Honor Him and give Him thanks. No one in the “hall of faith” in Hebrews had specific knowledge of Jesus, yet their faith is lauded in scripture. Abraham was credited as righteous when he believed God, not when did works, and not when he understood who Jesus was... “This is just fallacious thinking!” No, you just don't understand the gospel. “The text clearly tells them to 'hold fast' to the teachings handed down by Word of Mouth besides what is handed out 'by letter'” No, it doesn't say “besides”, it says by word of mouth or by letter. Assuming the opposite of what I do opens you up to any manner of false doctrine because anything could be 'handed down' to you from anyone that can convince you that they are part of your “chain”. “there is no reason for him to say 'by letter or by word of mouth'- as something besides the Scripture.” I'm sure you understand that not everyone had letters sent to them, or copies of letters to hand around; sometimes all they had was what they heard from him in person. “Now, the verse is prescriptive- it tells us(whether you live in Thessalonica or America) to hold fast to both” Sure, I'll listen to what I hear Paul say by letter or by word of mouth, unless he's teaching a false gospel and against scripture. “And Paul never talks of any 'denomination'- he believes in only 1 Church” So do I. There should be no denominations. I don't claim to be a part of any of them.
@GratiaPrima_3 жыл бұрын
At least they recognized Catholicism is different than all the other groups they talked about in the original video, but dang. I couldn’t even believe Catholicism was in the same video with the rest.
@GratiaPrima_3 жыл бұрын
@Cam Gaylor yeah, some def say outright we’re not brothers and sisters in Christ. 😞 lord, help ‘em.
@mimi_j3 жыл бұрын
I’m becoming Catholic from an anti Catholic Pentecostal background and for him to even acknowledge that theologically, we share the same beliefs is gracious compared to what was indoctrinated in me. Lord have mercy and give us grace to speak to those who are lost and blind 😞
@mimi_j3 жыл бұрын
@@GratiaPrima_ I told my mother today I was converting and she says I’m confused and pray that my eyes will be opened and that I don’t blaspheme God. That this is not from God and more. 💔 I didn’t argue because I prayed before and I knew at this point right now she won’t be ready to hear but I pray that God will soften her heart.
@aileenbordelon78843 жыл бұрын
@@mimi_j -You’ll be in my prayers 🙏🏻 God will guide you through this journey towards Catholicism ✝️ ❤️ I recommend reading stories about the Saints who were converts for inspiration 💜✝️
@Moe-bb3bm3 жыл бұрын
Yeah right buddy, Catholicism is system is pagan and I can prove it with ancient Roman History buddy.. Rome mixed it with christinaty. Anyone with a brain who has ever studied and got a high school diploma can read the New Testament and compare it to the Catholic structure and So call Roman Cannon and obviously see it's not New Testament real Christianity. Rome is an apostate church and after researching the matter it's clear. Gentile original Roman church was started by Apostle Barnabas or Apostle Paul not Apostle Peter and was not started the original church. Jerusalem is the original church and will be the last church.
@bethm44483 жыл бұрын
I watched a podcast of pastor Mike once where he was taking questions from followers and a question came up that someone's family member was pulling away from the faith and what advice pastor Mike had for this person. His answer was literally that the person had to work really hard to stay close to Jesus. When I pointed out in live chat that pastor Mike advocates work to keep the faith, my comment was deleted, lol.
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Typical!!!! Mike has a bu$ine$$ to run!!!
@ErraticFaith2 жыл бұрын
Well you have your 'faith without works is dead' (which as a non-christian, simply makes logical sense to me as a perspective). And then you have his. Which is strange. Protestant Christians almost seem (or perhaps they are) to be implying that you are saved no matter what you do. Almost as if you might as well not bother living your life in good faith. Now that is likely not what they mean. But you can imagine how it looks to outsiders? If there was no way of gaining favor under heaven with how you conduct yourself (works) then there would be very little point bothering with faith at all. Which is likely why they take issue with any traditional activity based upon shared experiences or history. I can understand they mean it to be 'nothing can impress God'. Due to an interpretation they have. I don't share this, as a point of logic. Because if I weigh up the human experience (real life) as a non-christian; it appears to me that your character is defined by your interaction with the world over time. The very meaning of living life - is character development and the showcase of choice (wrong or right). I believe that is a credible metric of judgement. Faith is demonstrated and earned. To make it 'heh you are just saved'. Seems an insult to the quality and rarity of those living a righteous life and those barely bothering.
@alishavogel7926 Жыл бұрын
@@ErraticFaith I understand your comment is a year old and you might not see this. I just started Mike Winger's rebuttal to this rebuttal and wanted to read the comments on this video before I finished up Winger's rebuttal. However, I came across your comment and wanted to provide some insight. There are generally two schools of thought when it comes to works and faith in Protestant/Evangelical: "Once saved always saved" which can lead to the hyper-grace doctrine and you can lose your salvation if you renounce your beliefs or backslide. I just really discovered Mike Winger's teachings about 2 weeks ago, so I am not sure what camp he falls into, but I fall into the later of yes you can lose your salvation. However, that is just about salvation. Your comment was about works and I wanted to give you my perspective. I don't know if you graduated from a public high school or if you were homeschooled . If the later, then my example might not make sense to you so I apologize if that is the case. Regarding your comments about works, favor under heaven, and logic, take as an example of two high school soon to be graduates. Let's call them Jane and Jill if you will. Jane is a 4.0 GPA student in the top 1% and will be the only valedictorian. She was in duel enrollment for her senior year, was captain of the cheerleading team, the President of the beta club, has a part time volunteering gig with the nursing home, is an upcoming junior member for the city's young adult leadership council. She spends her free time at a soup kitchen and helping disadvantaged adults learn to read. She has been accepted into 5 ivy league schools and is debating between Harvard and Yale and she has been given a full ride scholarships in addition to her other scholarships she received from being so involved in the community. She is debating between being an aid worker or a public defender for disadvantaged communities. Jill however is barely present to even attend school. She is a continuous D student with zero future prospects. Her GPA is barely 1.0, spends her free time smoking pot and partying with her friends. She has been to juvi a few times and thinks school is a waste of time and that community anything is a waste of effort. Both of these fictional people will receive a high school diploma. Both of these fictional people will get to leave high school behind them regardless of their effort put into it. However, one will have made the most of it and one will just skate by barely making it even though they will both get a diploma. Salvation by faith or belief is much like this scenario. The end destination of high school (salvation by faith) will be the same (heaven [diploma])) regardless of effort (works [being a good student in school and a community member]). However, that doesn't mean the reward will be the same. Jane will be rewarded much for her efforts, but Jill will receive nothing. Just like those who work for the Kingdom of God and do good works (Is a Christian, studies the scriptures, loves people and loves to help others, is involved in their church, wants to lead others to Christ, ect), they will be greatly rewarded in heaven. However, those who just skate by while doing nothing and giving the barest of effort (Is a Christian, but doesn't go to church, doesn't get involved in the community, doesn't read the Bible, maybe says a prayer or two in trouble, tends to be rude to people), will make it to heaven, but they will not be rewarded for anything. The later in this scenario turns people off from Christ, the former wins people to Christ much like you picked up on. However, there is no earning heaven with good works. If Jane dropped out of school to be a good steward to the community and started a KZfaq educational channel, she doesn't get to receive a high school diploma. She can't bi-pass the requirement just because she thinks she knows better. Just like in salvation. There is no amount of good deeds that can get you into heaven. There has to be a belief in Jesus' finished work on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. This belief in Jesus SHOULD invoke a change in the heart of a human to do good works and a desire to be a disciple of Christ. Good works should be the bi-product of salvation because we have received a new heart and mind to serve Christ and others. Hence the faith without works is dead. If you have faith, it should inspire works. If you have faith without works, what are you even doing? Faith is a noun though, not a verb, but the relationship between a person's state of faith and their actions are symbiotic. Now, regarding losing one's salvation or backsliding, I do not see that as a result of not doing enough good deeds. I see it as a renouncing of beliefs and/or the falling back into a willful sinful lifestyle and basically walking away from Christ. Think of is as divorcing yourself from Christ (not the same as leaving church). This can also bleed over from the hyper-grace doctrine which is "once saved always saved" belief on steroids as it is the belief that you can do whatever you want, believe whatever you want, and you will still be saved (if you got saved at 12 lets say) regardless of your actual status of belief or lifestyle. I don't agree with that and I reject that. I will eventually get around to watching this video, but I hope that I gave you something to think on. Have a good day!
@mx_moi19643 жыл бұрын
You guys should check out William Albrecht, he is another Catholic brother who is starting to rebut Mr.Winger
@Stygard3 жыл бұрын
I am a former Baptist who (by God's grace alone!) converted to Catholicism 4 years ago. I believed so much of what Winger said about Catholicism, but after really exploration of what Catholicism teaches, I found the Church that christ found and I am home. I am so amazed how easily so many anti catholic protestant claims are easily dismounted.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
Welcome home brother in Christ
@Inari19873 жыл бұрын
Convert from Seventh-Day Adventism since 2015. Welcome home
@Moe-bb3bm3 жыл бұрын
You made a mistake, I was raised Catholic and it's a fake christianty. The church has no popes, Cardinals or clerical priest.
@Stygard3 жыл бұрын
@@Moe-bb3bm I'm sorry your experience lead you away. What denomination did you move to?
@Moe-bb3bm3 жыл бұрын
@@Stygard Well I don't care what all them group's say, all I care is what the bible says and teaches. I'm very familiar with the topic of Bibliology and Hermeneutics. I also am very familiar with Hebrew/ Jewish culture and how some of it ties in. The first church was the Jews or ancient Israel not Rome buddy. The word congregations means Church in Hebrew. The Israelites or the Jews were the first foundational church. There is no church without the Jews budd,, Jeremiah 31:31 & Romans 11 explains. Apostate Rome forgot to mention that the real church has no Popes, Cardinals, nuns nor condones idolitry. Nowhere in the New Testament or old can they be found or are they sanctioned offices. Sorry buddy but these are simple plain facts and your religion cannot deny this or explain it away.
@mimi_j3 жыл бұрын
Thank youuuu I was so agitated with this video. 😩😩 I stopped because these are same arguments that have been refuted successfully but people choose to ignore facts.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
You are right. They don't want to listen, yet won't learn, propagating false accusations
@takmaps3 жыл бұрын
I struggled to listen to him too Mimi
@MrMarcodarko3 жыл бұрын
Its gets old. Like talking to a wall
@noahgochenour734 Жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nq9xicWU0J-XoJc.html
@augustvonmacksen25263 жыл бұрын
The fact that this Mike guy had to preface every point with “and they would disagree with this” shows just how disingenuous his presentation is.
@adalia44553 жыл бұрын
I love these rebuttal videos!!! As a young Catholic who want to learn more about her faith, your videos have really helped me.
@HealthCoachHayley Жыл бұрын
This entire video is a misrepresentation of Winger’s content entirely. Please do not use Horns videos to guide you they are incredibly misleading.
@daddybandit4431 Жыл бұрын
Here is something to keep in mind, from a former die-hard atheist to a christian. Only God can forgive sins. Indulgences are a scheme and are not biblical in ANY regard. Praying to humans, is human worship, which is against God. The basis the catholic church uses to claim their authority is based on willful disregard for the scripture. If you really want to grow in your faith, learn Koine Greek and read the original scripture without the corruption of greed and bias of man's hands.
@siervodedios59525 ай бұрын
@@daddybandit4431Tell me you don't know Catholicism without telling me you don't know Catholicism.
@tesschavit30093 жыл бұрын
Mike Winger said that the Blessed Virgin Mary ascended into heaven, Mary was assumed into heaven by the Divine power of her son Jesus Christ. Ascended into heaven it is only for Jesus Christ by his own power. Ascended to heaven means by his own power, Assumption means from the power of other person.
@jendoe94363 жыл бұрын
Glad I’m not the only one who caught that. Ascension is reserved for Jesus entering Heaven under his own power while Assumed is Mary being brought to Heaven by Jesus and God’s.
@jd3jefferson5562 жыл бұрын
Wow such an excellent point!
@ccpol85253 жыл бұрын
It’s always nice to have someone defend our faith!
@veekee752 жыл бұрын
Yep, even satan would wanna defend himself. That's the nature of fallen creatures.
@lordofthered12572 жыл бұрын
@@veekee75 It's funny that Trent, or anyone on his side in the comments, NEVER accuses the people he disagrees with of Satanism. Nor does he try to tear down the people he disagrees with; he simply disagrees with them and explains his point. You guys on the other hand offer no understanding or love for your fellow Christians.
@veekee752 жыл бұрын
@@lordofthered1257 Did I say Trent is of Satanism? No! What I am saying is everyone will defend himself when being attacked, satan included.
@daddybandit4431 Жыл бұрын
@@veekee75 based
@daddybandit4431 Жыл бұрын
@@lordofthered1257 It's not about disagreement. These are salvation issues. Catholics believe man can do the only thing that God can do, forgive sins. Worshiping "saints" is human worship. Safe to say, if a religion wants to bear the mantle of "christian" then proceeds to push false doctrine and teach it as God's Word in hopes of wrapping up more people from God to their heresy, seems pretty satanic. Folks just call it what it is.
@akimoetam12823 жыл бұрын
Even I as a Episcopalian know almost everything he says on Catholicism is wrong lol
@bernardokrolo22753 жыл бұрын
Of course because you are catholich in nutshell..
@akimoetam12823 жыл бұрын
@@bernardokrolo2275 basically. Might cross the tiber one day hahahaha jk jk… unless? 😜
@bernardokrolo22753 жыл бұрын
@@akimoetam1282 i m not blaim you..Henry is one to blaim
@raulr7523 жыл бұрын
Why don’t you convert to Catholicism?
@deusimperator3 жыл бұрын
AKim, Cross the Tiber. The Catholic Church with all it faults and foibles is still the Church founded by Christ. Here is why... History, any unbiased reading of history will demonstrate that the Catholic Church was that Church which existed since the time of the apostles. Almost everything the Catholic Church teaches is authentic and can be support from the Torah Shebaal Peh. Give me any belief you think is crazy about Catholcis and I can provide evidence of its authenticity from Judaism. All the "crazy" Catholic beliefs originate in Judaism and could only have entered into Catholicism if at one time Catholicism was a Jewish Faith. And even this can be proven if you read the Bible and the Halakic Law together. In fact, outside Catholicism there cannot be any possibility of salvation. This is the realization I have come to, not from reading Catholics sources, but Jewish sources. IF Christ is the Messiah, there can only be one Church which is correct and salvation is dependant on you belonging to this family of G-d.
@Dan_Capone3 жыл бұрын
I can't stand Mike Winger's smugness when talking about Catholicism. And it's not because he's ignorant, because he has been presented with the arguments, but he chooses to ignore them to keep misleading people. There's not a single shred of humility and compassion in his attitude when he just claims other people are wrong because they think differently than him.
@aileenbordelon78843 жыл бұрын
Take it as a compliment. Mike doesn’t know it but he’s giving a great compliment to God by having such a strong reaction towards His true Church. I would be worried if he was more lukewarm about Catholicism.
@illumoportetcresceremeaute8873 жыл бұрын
I fear for Mike at his particular judgement
@dennislydon36823 жыл бұрын
'Pastor Mike' is a nitwit. Jesus would whip him and drive him from the Temple if Mike was talking his trash back then
@andriod0903 жыл бұрын
@@dennislydon3682 and the same can be said about putting the saints on a pedestal to be followed; or that Mary was sinless.
@BrianGondo3 жыл бұрын
@@andriod090 why would any of that be worthy of a whipping?
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
Sometimes I really can't bear the disrespect and arrogance that these _protestants_ have. Where do they get off calling the Church Jesus himself founded a cult? And this is specially crazy getting to know the little that can be generally said about protestant ecclesiology, so founding a bible club in the back of your garage that you later rename as a church because you disagreed with the local pastor back in the 90's is fine, but submission to the apostolic faith is illegitimate??
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
And this arrogance and disrespect is going live on social media, false propagation and accusations. Sometimes it feels Catholicism is wrong. Need more and more apologetics, need to defend Church.
@briandiehl92573 жыл бұрын
He verry clearly made sure to say it's not a cult
@takmaps3 жыл бұрын
@@briandiehl9257 You really don't see a problem in Winger and Parr listing Catholicism in the same video as Arians like JWs and Mormons bruhh.... And clearly labelling the video cult or Christian
@briandiehl92573 жыл бұрын
@@takmaps I do see the problem. But he didn't even name the video anything related to a cult. The video is called 6 groups related to biblical christianity or something like that
@ErraticFaith2 жыл бұрын
There is a very 'grey' border with their presentation of the word 'cult'. To preface I understand the 'reality' of that word to be derogatory. Think, 'cultists in robes performing evil deeds'. In that light I prefer Trent's empathic and sensitive approach to the phrase. As a non-christian I tend to lean toward the idea that regardless of what people pen/say there is an ulterior motive behind the direction. You can believe that whoever you are of course. However I interpret the Protestant angle to be how they deal with other faiths as well. 'Veiled insult'. Basically the equivalent of those who say 'I'm not being a funny here ...BUT'. The intention is obvious - even when the words are lined with sugar.
@abhishekjoseph41983 жыл бұрын
Hey Trent! Thank you for your work. You help me to understand my Catholic faith. Love and prayers from India.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
Hey Abhishek Nice to see an indian here I am thinking of starting catholic apologetics , Where discussions and q and a can be made. Any social media platform.
@jaidengarcia9803 жыл бұрын
Cult comes from the Latin word “Cultus” which means “to worship”, all religions are cults, even protestantism What’s wrong about calling religions like Catholicism a cult is that people associate it with an unreasonable negative connotation and usually picture guys underground in robes doing human sacrifice
@jordydinga11673 жыл бұрын
Fun fact, in french, all protestant call their sunday worship " cult". They will say things like : I am going to the cult" while us we will say : " I am going to Mass"
@andtou13422 жыл бұрын
Anyone who calls a religion a cult should at least look at the BITE model first
@sir.roe-say2 жыл бұрын
@@hectorknuts5822 hey. Did you looked at the video's thumbnail? And, did you watch the catholic part from the video?
@nosuchthing82 жыл бұрын
Because it has negative connotations. No one forces you to be a Catholic. That's one of the aspects of a true cult.
@wulfheort8021 Жыл бұрын
What? Cultus is a substantive, not a verb. Colere is the verb from which it comes and it means 'to cultivate/protect". Stop making things up.
@TheJewishCatholic3 жыл бұрын
Trent, I'd love to have you on my channel! Down for a conversation?
@TheCounselofTrent3 жыл бұрын
Sure! My schedule is pretty tight right now but if I can come up with some free time I'll let you know!
@TheJewishCatholic3 жыл бұрын
@@TheCounselofTrent Fantastic! Shoot me an email so we can stay in contact and, God-willing, set something up for the future. email: thejewishcatholicofficial@gmail.com
@RGTomoenage113 жыл бұрын
Who are protestants to decide who is a Christian and who isn’t?
@GratiaPrima_3 жыл бұрын
Right! On what authority? The Bible, I assume? The Catholic Church says you’re welcome for that 😉
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@GratiaPrima_ Hi there, myself arun I will make it as short as possible I am a young catholic apologetic, you can call be beginner, I am searching for good frnds with whom I can engage discussions , Q&As sharing thoughts on catholic apologetics. If interested we can go ahead with any social media platform, or can you guide if you know any Thank you
@GratiaPrima_3 жыл бұрын
@@TheMarymicheal I’m on Instagram as @melissa_most ☺️
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@GratiaPrima_ how about facebook or what's app?
@mcspankey48103 жыл бұрын
@@TheMarymicheal hey I am a young man studying catholic theology and apologetics, if you have a discord I’d be down to talk theology with you
@erravi3 жыл бұрын
I really wish people would stop saying “Roman” Catholicism. I even see Catholic church building signs with that term. An anti-Catholic term created by Protestants that focuses on ROME, and therefore “big bad evil Pope”, completely ignoring that “Catholic” means UNIVERSAL.
@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh3 күн бұрын
Relax.^^ "Roman" Catholicism distinguishes it from other Catholic groups still in union with the Universal church, including Ukrainian Catholics, Assyrian and Syrian Catholics, etc. The differences between the various branches are primarily in ritual and liturgical practice, not in belief or doctrine.
@epcd70213 жыл бұрын
God forgive u mr winger for what u said about catholism
@noahgochenour734 Жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nq9xicWU0J-XoJc.html
@vikingbme973 жыл бұрын
I really wish Trent/Mike would set up a dialogue episode. It’s getting tiring to see Mike continue to upload content when he’s been corrected several times. I applaud Trent for the work, but I would just love to see Mike react to corrections in real time and hopefully adjust his views
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
May be a debate can cool Mike down to ground
@thomasbailey9213 жыл бұрын
Trent actually made a community post where he said he would be open to a conversational style debate and Mike shot him down, so unfortunately I dont think it will ever happen.
@sawekx61593 жыл бұрын
People keep asking for this debate in the comments under Mikes videos aswell, but unfortunately Mike has responded several times already that he does not want to debate Trent, so it probably wont happen
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@sawekx6159 but how long this abuse of social media to falsely propagate wrong about catholic Church
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Mike is too much of a pansy to do this!’n
@maxpennington55793 жыл бұрын
Funny thing is Mike Winger and his videos are what started me on the path towards Catholicism. Probably not what he intended.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂 Somehow Mike helping for conversions to catholic Church
@Yeyi4283 жыл бұрын
Me too! I watched Winger’s anti-catholic doctrine videos thinking he was knowledgeable but dun dun dun…In the comments sections ppl started naming catholic apologists like Trent, and others and curiosity got the best of me. I searched Trent’s name and I went down the conversion rabbit hole. 8 months of RCIA later and here I am… a proper catholic. To God be the Glory!!!!
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Thsts great yey!!! Welcome home!
@Kostas_Dikefalaios2 жыл бұрын
Protestants had a similar effect on me after being deceived for a short time. They strenghtened my faith in Orthodoxy
@colinjames93622 жыл бұрын
I too was heading in that direction until a Pentecostal pastor started talking bad about the Catholic church - I prayed about it and started searching for answers on the net and boom bang I stumbled on Scott Hahn and others today i eat sleep and drink Catholic apologetics. I’ve learned so much.
... and at around 43:10 he grunts and mumbles in agreement also!
@dennislydon36823 жыл бұрын
Yes, let's all take direction from 'Pastor Mike'; gimme a fing break with these fraud 'Pastors' joke
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
@@dennislydon3682 Exactly!!!!!
@catherinecox89213 жыл бұрын
I am so Blessed to be Catholic! I am also so thankful that God has given you the gift to speak to the beauty and Truth of our Faith.
@user-uc1yb7hy2n3 жыл бұрын
Why is he (winger) only reading the anathemas?
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
It's the juicy parts, the rest would require that he pays attention
@argelbargel76803 жыл бұрын
These clowns don't even know what "anathema" means.
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
@@argelbargel7680 This is unironically true, because of sola scriptura when they read "anathema" they can only process it in the context of the old testament so to them it means the same as "to put to the ban".
@matthewcunningham53823 жыл бұрын
I always wished Protestants like Mike would read the whole Bible in its context rather than just taking little snip-bits that prove their points. I pray for his conversion to the truth, especially because he seems to have such a good zeal for the Lord
@Michaelwolfe7143 жыл бұрын
A text without a context is no text at all.
@Moe-bb3bm3 жыл бұрын
He has
@tabiren3823 жыл бұрын
"read the whole Bible in its context rather than just taking little snip-bits" now THAT would be against their own "tradition" 🤣
@billykid68243 жыл бұрын
We do. You do not read or understand the Bible you listen to what you are told the Bible says according to your doctrine which is not Biblical.
@matthewcunningham53823 жыл бұрын
@@billykid6824 Do you mind if I ask you an honest question Billy. Is it biblical to have the bible as your only source of God's authority & revelation? I love reading the bible! Fr. Mike's bible in a year has been great but from reading the bible I believe to limit his revelation to just a written form is limiting God's voice. He speaks through the Bible, but not just that; through the early fathers in genesis, the prophets, and the apostles whom Jesus Christ gave authority to teach and these apostles passed on their authority to their successors, our bishops and priests. It was likely that these people didn't have a written word at all times and yet God revealed himself to them and granted them power and wisdom to speak on his behalf. If you look throughout the history of the Catholic Church and all the works and miracles she's preformed you can't deny Jesus works through His church, despite how broken and imperfect its members may be. Seriously man, look up some of the strange miracles that have happened in the history of the Catholic Church and you may awe and wonder how Jesus works through the Church that he established!
@michaelverde48443 жыл бұрын
I LOVE Trent's response @40:10 "I have no idea how Mike is getting this from Galatians!" 🤣 ..."Don't 'abandon the Gospel' DOES NOT EQUAL Sola Scriptura." 👍🏼
@wesleyriddell69362 жыл бұрын
I’m doing a deep dive into this whole rebuttals series between you (Trent) and Mike Winger. As I pause and slowly digest what both are saying it’s like another layer of understanding is being revealed to me on what Catholicism teaches. This is wonderful and insightful. I’m thankful God has allowed this back and fourth rather than a quick “here’s the answer”. Btw when you spoke about merit vs earning, it helped me understand how I might have been unintentionally misleading people and that’s why my discussions with my protestant friends have been so complicated. I say all of this to thank you and encourage you to keep making these videos! They’re very helpful.
@reginapontes5672 Жыл бұрын
Great post!
@emeliafeliz913 жыл бұрын
I am from the Philippines and most of us are Catholics and I was a Catholic. People do the rosary, and go to church every Sunday but their is no fruit of the Spirit. 90% do not read the Bible! How do we even know Jesus without reading the Bible?😥 I am glad I learned the Bible and most Catholic is not living with the Bible. Most do not even understand what is to follow Jesus.
@yalechuk67143 жыл бұрын
Why not be a lay evangelist sis help others with the grace God has given you.
@johnyang1420 Жыл бұрын
Mabuhay! My wife is Filipina! At every Mass….there are 3 big scriptural readings…..do you listen very well?
@johnyang1420 Жыл бұрын
Catholics follow Jesus by joining his Catholic church. Protestants left the one true church.
@redbird90003 ай бұрын
I’m sorry but you have been misled. You are responsible for studying God’s word. When you learn the truth, you will learn that Peter is not the Rock. Christ is the Rock 1 Corinthians 3:11 • Adding doctrines is forbidden Deuteronomy 4:2 • There aren’t any officiating new covenant priests. We have a new ministry in the new covenant. Ephesians 4:11 • God does not show favoritism Romans 2:11 -- there is no evidence in the scriptures that the church was built on a human. ****Equality amongst the apostles**** “Ye are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.” (****Ephesians 2:20****) “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” (****Revelation 21:14****). • Peter was no different than the others. • Mary nor the saints can hear prayers. There’s only one mediator in heaven between God & Man. 1 Timothy 2:5 ► For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, There is so much more wrong with that church. I can’t list it all but they are no longer a church that belongs to God. That’s why they are blessing same sex couples. • In order to receive salvation, we must all repent and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior. We need no Eucharist, no veneration of Mary, no long list of good works, no baptism regeneration, no sacrament of reconciliation, no rosary, no pope, no papacy, no belief in Peter as the Rock 1 Corinthians 3:11, no man-made doctrine, no priests, no infallible magisterium, no Vatican, no communion of saints, no catechisms, no Marian dogmas, no transubstantiation, but only by faith through grace are we saved. ****Ephesians 2:8**** "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast".
@redbird90003 ай бұрын
@@johnyang1420There’s no such thing as the “one true church”.
@hel_raven3 жыл бұрын
"Catholics and Catholicism are not the same"??? he doesn't want to misinterpret Catholic teaching btw but then takes what the majority of bad Catholics believe as something that represent us
@hel_raven2 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 I'm a guy... And no.
@IowaRonin2 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 Assertions are easy.
@hel_raven2 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 Yes, of course. Absolutely. Do you think we do not? you would also say "yes" right? what's the point of your question?
@hel_raven2 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 images or icons are not necessarily idols. An idol is an image that's worshipped as a god. We don't believe Mary or the Saints are gods and we don't worship them. We as Christians don't have to keep the Sabbath as day if rest since the "Lord of the Sabbath" has resurrected on a Sunday. That's why Sunday is now the Holy day. And baptism doesn't necessarily mean "full immersion". And there's some Catholics that can do it in a full immersion, but some that because of whatever reason can't do that. I recommend watching videos of these channel, they're great, so you can learn more about this.
@hel_raven2 жыл бұрын
@@tony1685 Alright, same to you. Read the Bible. If God wanted specifically to not make any kind of image regardless if it's an idol or not, then why did He ordered Moses to make images? (Exodus 25:18 or Numbers 21:8) Christ only said "Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." nothing about full submersion, but like I said, some that can do it in full submersion they do it. Can be done either way. And the Apostles did reunite to worship on Sunday, the first day of the week. See Acts 20:7 or John 20:19-20. The reason I recommend watching this channel's videos is because this guy knows a whole lot about the Bible and history about it that are very interesting and good to know about.
@lukasg90313 жыл бұрын
The editing and production has really improved! Good Job Trent 😃
@joshr81953 жыл бұрын
You’re a smart man Trent, much to learn from you. Great video. 😁
@lisaherrling68802 жыл бұрын
Did I understand Mike Winger to say that he doesn't think baptism is not needed for salvation? Jesus said that he who believes and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED!
@tpw72502 жыл бұрын
Did He though?
@Seven_18652 жыл бұрын
When considering what is needed for salvation, the thief on the cross next to Jesus is good to keep in mind. All he had was faith. No baptism with water. No good works. But the Lord himself said he would be with Jesus in paradise.
@lisamohammed64992 жыл бұрын
Well Done Trent. Thank you for all your work in Catholic Apologetics and Thank you for continually doing these rebuttals with humility. We’re not out to win arguments (as satisfying as the feeling is) - we’re about winning souls.
@PaulsWanderings4 ай бұрын
What I find interesting about protestant apologists is that they keep saying that the Catholic church "added" this or "added" that. They forget that the Catholic church didn't "add" anything. The reformers removed this or that. The argument against the Papacy drives me up a wall. It makes no sense why God would let authority given to Peter and the rest of the Apostles to end with their death and then let his church have no replacement.
@wantok81173 жыл бұрын
Hope other Catholic apologies come forward rebutting this Pastor Mike too.
@takmaps3 жыл бұрын
Go to William albrecht channel he rebutted Winger too
@MrPeach13 жыл бұрын
It's telling that I have seen neither of these guys dialogue with a knowledgeable Catholic.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
Has ever Mike winger ever agreed for any debate? Hope he agrees with a real rebuttal live. Dying to see that
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
He has no aptitude for them, he couldn't move past basic points in a debate against dillahunty of all people.
@properapplications3 жыл бұрын
Me too. I'd love to see Trent and Winger have a debate.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@Qwerty-jy9mj right on point
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@properapplications actually I did some searching, where I found he did indeed got call from Trent , but he refused. Couldn't take his false information propagation no longer
@billyoga8073 жыл бұрын
@@Qwerty-jy9mj wow really? I never really like him in the first place. I think he even got schooled on hume if I remember
@samshel57253 жыл бұрын
God Bless you, Trent Horn. I thank God that the Lord brought me into His Church, despite being the only Catholic in my entire family and friend group. Men like Agustine, Aquinas, Trent Horn, Jimmy Akin, Brent Pitre, Scott Hahn, Peter Kreeft, all helped me answer many questions after much prayer and debate. Turris Fortis Mihi Deus!
@keinoquias17083 жыл бұрын
This is the first video I watched from Trent's KZfaq Channel! I will watch more of his videos now, definitely a knowledgeable channel about defending the Catholic Faith.
@BasilTU3 жыл бұрын
I'm sure you won't regret it 😁 Don't forget to invite your friends too
@veekee752 жыл бұрын
Trent never defended anything. He misrepresented Mike in so many areas. Just check out Mike's rebuttal on Trent's rebuttal on Mike. Sounds confusing? It is! Mike is so detailed in all his explanation, while Trent just rebut without any explanation and many a times Trent just take a verse out of context. Mike is definitely a lot more biblical in Christianity beliefs.
@apologiaromana41232 жыл бұрын
@@veekee75 Cope
@rebeccazens15643 жыл бұрын
I hope @How to be Christian does a take on this too (no offense meant @trent, you do a phenomenal job, I just like watching both of you)
@arturo46733 жыл бұрын
I am enjoying that they are telling people to be prepared for Catholics, that means your work Trent and all that came before you are starting to gain ground for the Glory of our GOD.
@Netro19927 ай бұрын
I am trying real hard to wrap around my head the protestant idea that your sins don't matter because if you were truly saved you wouldn't have sin.
@elmerarts91243 жыл бұрын
Who wants allan vs trent or mike vs trent debate?
@kathiasoto23553 жыл бұрын
I love these rebuttal videos. So much can be learned from them. Thank you Trent for defending our Catholic Faith. 🙂
@HealthCoachHayley Жыл бұрын
The entire video is full of misrepresentation, arrogance and .... lies. This is not an effective or even remotely honest rebuttal of anything.
@roylereg22 Жыл бұрын
Watching this in 2023 and these rebuttal videos makes an effective exposition of all the ignorant interpretations from non- catholics
@christenh3593 жыл бұрын
46:49 “debating scripture is secondary…” at least he’s a little self-aware. But it’s not because he can’t interpret the Bible, it’s because we can see all the fractured Protestant churches interpreting scripture for themselves and then breaking into opposing camps.
@LostArchivist3 жыл бұрын
I will say I am happy to see Mr.Winger at least understanding the importance of ecumenical councils and other aspects like not saying we worship the Blessed Virgin Mary or the Pope. And unfortunately his portrayal of the average Catholic vs Catholicism proper is fairly accurate, most Catholics have no clue or ignorantly reject what the Church actually teaches. All that in mind, I am very grateful for your work here Mr.Trent and others who have the constancy to be able to refute the misunderstandings and defending the Truth of Holy Mother Church. It is very edifying to have these matters discussed in detail and it really is a great way to right the course in what internally I believe and how I am operating in my walk with the Lord and has revealed some of the more deeply buried flaws that developed over time. What I am saying Mr.Horn is keep fighting the good fight, you may be doing even more good than you could know. God bless you, my brother in Christ. Through the same Blessed Lord and Savior of All, Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Amen.
@BigBroTejano Жыл бұрын
It is amazing how the group that holds up and praises the great “Protestant Work Ethic” for making the modern world...seem so determined to ensure their faith requires as little effort as possible.
@catholiccrusaderdeusvult62053 жыл бұрын
Trent I'm loving these videos, very helpful , God bless your work
@lonelyberg18083 жыл бұрын
I laughed with William Albrecht this morning
@dylanfernandez39103 жыл бұрын
Trent, when will you be collaborating with Ferris from How to be Christian.
@shlamallama64333 жыл бұрын
Not gonna happen. They're mortal enemies! ;)
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@shlamallama6433 😂😂😂😂😂
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@shlamallama6433 actually both of them have had endorsed mutual video content, Trent encouraged his channel, from there on I am big fan of ferris
@m46413 жыл бұрын
Objectively speaking, the protestant does not want to relinquish their position on justification. Specifically that it is a one time event. That everything that is a growing in righteousness from a Catholic perspective isn't a growing in righteousness; rather, it is sanctification. When I compare their position regarding righteousness from a divine to human perspective i.e. a one time event against a human to human, they are not the same. My wife and my children grow in righteousness. When I meet a stranger on the street, I don't "declare" once and for all the righteousness of the person; but as I get to experience the person he/she may grow or recede in righteousness from my perspective. I frequently hear how legalistic the Catholic faith is from my protestant friends. Then I read the protestant doctrine on justification and laugh. It reads like a lawyer wrote it. Then again, Calvin was trained in law so that might explain it.
@m46413 жыл бұрын
@Empyreal Certainly. We observe it in our courtrooms today. I just do not subscribe to this application, even before turning towards Catholicism. The other aspect of forensic justification is the accountant/CPA book keeping...the crediting of Christ's righteousness to my account. I know many Protestant see beauty in their Lutheran/Reformed beliefs/faith. I don't.
@m46413 жыл бұрын
@Empyreal Fair enough. I definitely was not using legalistic in the way you describe it. May I ask what faith you profess? Baptist, Reformed, Lutheran...or something else?
@m46413 жыл бұрын
@Empyreal Thanks for sharing and thanks for clarifying what you meant by legalistic. My daughter attends a non-demonational Christian school and I frequently hear "legalistic" being used to describe Catholicism--a works based religion. So if I understand you correctly then when you say legalistic it's more akin to contractual. If I "do" work then I am "owed" compensation. This to me seems to be the protestant understanding of works. Anyway, I was baptized as infant and confirmed at age 13 Catholic. My parents were not devout and never went to church except for funerals and weddings. I married Methodist. Spent some years going to Presbyterian churches and finally landed in a non-demonational Baptist/Calvin leaning church for 5 years before I began to actually be engaged on the theology being presented. Ironically I ended up reading my way back to Catholicism. Along the way I came across a program on EWTN called "The Journey Home". The host is Marcus Grodi (a former Congregationlist pastor who converted to Catholicism). The programs are Protestant conversion stories to Catholicism. I've learned so much from hearing former protestant pastors of almost every conceivable denomination discuss their protestant beliefs as part of their story. From my readings, I do admire Luther's courage to risk his life for his beliefs. Eric Metaxis wrote a great book on Luther which I found helpful. Fundamentally though, I just think the Sola doctrines are flawed. I also came to realize that an infallible human authority to interpret Scripture must exist on Earth. If it's not the Pope and no other protestant organization will claim it then the default ends up being me. I do have a strong ego but I am not ignorant enough nor arrogant enough to believe I can interpret Scripture infallibly. Well, good luck on your journey.
@m46413 жыл бұрын
@Empyreal Your comment about no earthly infallible interpreter was articulated well. My wife holds to that position but doesn't articulate well. Having said this, the question she nor my protestant friends ever answer is this: was there ever an infallible human authority on Earth? If so who was it and why doesn't one exist today. The other question that never gets answered is: how do protestants reconcile differences in interpretation? There can be only one truth. Regarding baptism--either it saves (whatever that means) or it doesn't. The plain reading of Scripture indicates that it does; yet, there are some that disagree. I'm not wanting to debate. I just want to know how y"all who adhere to Sola Scriptura reconcile these differences especially without claiming infallibility.
@m46413 жыл бұрын
@Empyreal Thank you for answering and not merely dismissing the question. I've pondered the implications of there not being a human authority. One could never know for certain the truth. I struggle to understand the position you take. At the end of the day if you cannot point to a human authority then the default authority is yourself. Do you not see this? You become your own arbiter of truth. Because my wife hasn't left the nondenominational church, I continue in a weekly small group Bible study with her. Nothing is more dissatisfiying than reading verses of Scripture and having several interpretations. When Peter said "Baptism now saves you", I believe he knew the Truth of what that meant. His understanding was infallible. The question for me then becomes, "what was that understanding?" Another protestant question I've struggled to ascertain is, "at what point in history was Sola Scriptura established as dogma?" It's clear to me that it couldn't have been before or on Pentecost. Anyway, thanks for the dialogue.
@YovanypadillaJr3 жыл бұрын
Trent do you have any books on the historicity of the papacy you would recommend?
@zacharynelson57313 жыл бұрын
“Upon this rock” by Stephen Ray or “on the Roman pontiff” by St Robert Bellarmine
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
Hi there, myself arun I will make it as short as possible I am a young catholic apologetic, you can call be beginner, I am searching for good frnds with whom I can engage discussions , Q&As sharing thoughts on catholic apologetics. If interested we can go ahead with any social media platform, or can you guide if you know any Thank you
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
Peter pope by Joe heyshmair
@YovanypadillaJr3 жыл бұрын
Arun Kumar read that book it was fantastic but it argued for it from a scriptural standpoint not historical.
@TheMarymicheal3 жыл бұрын
@@YovanypadillaJr fine.
@jonathanstensberg3 жыл бұрын
Ask a protestant whether or not it was true that Michael disputed with Satan over the body of Moses before Jude wrote it down. If they admit that it was true--which they logically must--then they admit that they secretly believe in validity of tradition as a source of theological truth.
@patriley10263 жыл бұрын
Mike like other Protestant Preachers like David Koresh and Jim Jones, doesn't have any historical or organizational justification behind his ministry. Mike Winger, like the two aforementioned Protestant preachers, is truly "Winging it" when it comes to theology.
@Justas3993 жыл бұрын
Mike has the Bible to back his claims up. All that is needed.
@Justas3993 жыл бұрын
@B looo What claims did Jesus make not recorded in the NT?
@erravi3 жыл бұрын
Incredible episode!!! Justification is a huge topic that I (and I know many other lay Catholics) always struggle with explaining to our Protestant brethren because there are so many doctrinal and definitional assumptions on both sides. I’m taking notes 😊
@JuanPNavarrete3 жыл бұрын
Why is pastor Mike so offended by Catholisism?
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
There's a real strain of anti intellectualism in American protestantism, in many ways I think it's a bit of intuition that he can't compete with our theology
@dwong92893 жыл бұрын
Every heretic is influenced by the evil one. The devil hates Christ’s True Church
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
It cuts into his net income.
@shawnmathew60783 жыл бұрын
Excellent rebuttal. Thanks a lot, Trent !
@shlamallama64333 жыл бұрын
Good job Trent! I want to see you sit down with Mike Winger and talk it out for a few hours, maybe about a specific topic! One thing I have a question about that seems to go in Mike's favor. Romans 11:6 seems to be defining grace as never being the result of works, merited or earned, either in initial justification or increases of justification. "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace." I know Paul is not writing as precisely as a systematic theology, but he seems to be making a definition of grace that it can't come as a result of works. Thoughts?
@shadiafadulzarur39313 жыл бұрын
Trent responded to this in the video. He says that quote refers to the first “stage” of salvation when Gods choses his people (baptism), which we don’t merit.
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Mike puts out a series of AntiCatholic videos. He is scared to debate. I guess he is only tough when unopposed.
@michaelharrington66983 жыл бұрын
Thank you for doing this Trent, its really appreciated
@mrm4sherman2713 жыл бұрын
I look forward to the growth that this channel will experience in the future
@ljshoreslokal5 ай бұрын
Wow! I've been subscribed to Winger for a while now and he's always seemed intelligent and fair. After seeing his rebuttal to this video I found him to be dishonest and intentionally deceiving toward Catholics. He heavily chopped up your responses to make you look bad and then he summarized what you said incorrectly to make himself look correct. I just sub'd to you. I'm Lutheran by the way and I'm leaning toward the Catholic Church and beginning RCIA. Thank you for being honest and fair.
@zacharyahearn40695 ай бұрын
Answering the Orthodoxy by Michael Lofton is a good book for those discerning between the Orthodoxies and the Catholic Church.
@ljshoreslokal5 ай бұрын
@@zacharyahearn4069 Thank you, I'll check it out. God bless
@georgehub42493 жыл бұрын
I try to be as charitable as possible, but Mike Winger just might be the most insufferable man on the internet...
@aileenbordelon78843 жыл бұрын
Don’t let him bother you. His constant push back against Catholicism is very telling. Pray for him because this resistance towards Christ’s true Church could lead him towards damnation or finally accepting it.
@Mi5T3R73 жыл бұрын
worse than James White?? mmmmm🤨... hmm.🤔 i guess White may be more sufferable because of the higher entertainment value. you might be right about Winger taking this title.
@ryanwall57602 жыл бұрын
He says on a video with a lie in the title
@louannebvb3 ай бұрын
Allen was definitely not accurately representing Sola Scriptura and the Catholic view against it
@juneluk75543 жыл бұрын
The attitude of Mike Winger towards Catholicism reminds me of James White. Arrogant, extreme anti Catholic and ignorant about the truth of our Catholic faith. I'm very proud being a Catholic. The true church Jesus founded. Thank you Trent, great job. May God bless you and your family for being a humble, great servant of our Lord Jesus Christ.
@joeylombaard16183 жыл бұрын
Hey Trent, have you reached out to MIke to come on your podcast (or his) and have a series of cordial talks? I think that would be awesome!
@joelmontero94393 жыл бұрын
Mike doesn't want to, he's said it many times
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
Mike is scared.
@sawekx61593 жыл бұрын
yes it would be cool, but like the others said, Mike refuses to debate Trent. You can find his own comments about it under some of his videos
@johnyang14203 жыл бұрын
@@sawekx6159 Mike makes a series of AntiCatholic videos and expects no response? Sounds like he is scared and he tapped out. If what he talks about makes logical sense, he should explain it.
@jwnpanthers55053 жыл бұрын
I came here in the middle of the video being discussed. Looked at the comment section and found some upset people so I looked at this video. A ton of the refutation(btw he literally said it wasn't a cult) is actually agreeing with the statements he's making, only providing context for why they believe these things. All that being said, I think this video was done very well. I definitely don't agree with some of those beliefs, but do feel better about the salvation for Catholics as a whole. Hopefully nothing I said was offensive to any of you. God bless you all and have a great day!!!
@jwnpanthers55053 жыл бұрын
Also, I'm only halfway through this video at this time, but will listen to the end.
@donthomas47936 ай бұрын
Mike actually said that it’s not a cult. Although he could never be Catholic in his estimation, he never said it was a cult.
@asiapeach23873 жыл бұрын
Trent, I thank God for you. Your hard work is so appreciated. 🙏🏻