2017 was the biggest year for me with regard to wrestling through doubt. It was my first year in seminary, and all I can say is that I woke up one day and the Christian story had lost its ring of truth to my ears. Only way I know how to explain it. For about 2-3 weeks I severely despaired over the idea that the whole thing was false. A combination of many factors - some intellectual, some psychological/emotional/spiritual - brought me through that phase. But then for the rest of that entire calendar year I faced other forms of doubt, going on to wrestle with the question of God's character and goodness, and many passages in Scripture that were troubling to me. One of the biggest graces from God to me in that time was the living testimony of my wife. She was so un-phased by my doubt, so full of empathy and yet also confidence. She prayed for me relentlessly and listened intentionally. I thought, "If within the Christian framework marriage is supposed to be a living example of how Jesus loves His people, then God must love and be committed to me vastly beyond what I could hope or imagine."

I am a Catholic and I find you the most convincing protestant on the internet. Keep up the good work. God is truly working through you to bring people to Christ.

"Praying works" For someone who struggles with depression and anxiety like me, and who's constantly labeled as an "overthinker", this is the axis on which all the cogs of life rest. When my brain tries to eat me alive, I just run to Jesus. Thanks Gavin for your honesty and braveness.

Man you took my thoughts and put words brilliantly to them. Great job. Love this video.

Somewhere between 2004-2006 I started to doubt my faith in Islam (which I had been a Muslim since 1988 at the age of 15) and after studying till my brain exploded and some other factors of God's interference, I started to embrace Christianity (but I did so screaming and kicking lol but through prayer and other factors I slowly and assuredly walked away from Islam. after some time of peace in the Lamb, I have come to another fork in the road and that is the Catholic and Protestant and the different nuances that go along with that fight. in many ways it is more gruesome and bloodier than the Islam and Christianity debate. lol two things I am certain in my faith and that is God, His Christ crucified and raised. So with the rest (give or take issues) I am still wrestling with the nuances and differences in practices, theology on some levels (among Christian groups). It has been many years but God has rest for the weary, tired, and weak... but the fact that I am still fighting shows that when I am weak, I am strong and I long to hear Him say "Well done my good and faithful servant".

I’m coming out of Mormonism. My first domino was the founding prophet, and it turns out that’s the biggest domino because it all hinges on him. I’m slowly feeling my way into Christianity and it’s freaking difficult man, there’s so much stuff I don’t know and there’s a big part of me that’s like “you were lied to about God. How do you know everyone else isn’t lying too?” And then you look at all the shady pastors and the thousands of confident denominations and the sex abuse scandals and it’s just…it’s hard.

Deconstruction for me was extremely painful, suffering such trauma. I recently sought help. Recovery From Religion is a great resource. Highly recommend.

This is a really great testimony. When doubts arise, it is so important to keep on working on it. Many of the "de-conversion" stories seem to feature a person finding a good argument against a single part of their Christian worldview and throwing the rest in the trashcan without much effort to preserve it.

I was never a YEC but I have wrestled with evolution since I was in high school. I had a prof in college who was the first to say he was a Christian and believed in evolution. I think Michael Jones aka inspiring philosophy has given one of the better arguments for intelligent design and evolution being compatible. His series on genesis is fantastic and shifted a lot of my thinking. Thank you for this testimony and your humility.

This. "Is my brain playing tricks on me". Or "my brain is too tiny and is going to explode from the combination of information I consume trying to understand things and of the ever present angst". Thank you so much for sharing this. It felt familiar, and I needed the encouragement at the end of the video ❤

Love the honesty. So many Christians are know it all's. I respect doubts and fear.

Hi Gavin, thanks for the video! I had a crisis of faith after about 10 years of being a Christian. For 10 years I was SO sure of my faith. It's like I was impenetrable to doubt. I was bulletproof. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, everything inside me collapsed. I thought I was losing my faith. This was accompanied by panic attacks. I had no idea what to do. It was an incredibly scary time. It has marked me to this day. I guess you could say I'm more humble and open today? Like you, I did a deep dive into everything I could get my hands on. Today, I still have doubts. There are things that I would love to have an answer on. Then, there are things that I'm sure about. Like you said about the gospels, I find Jesus and the gospels compelling and reliable records. There is a glue that has held me together throughout all this. Like you said toward the end, it sounds cheesy, but I KNOW Jesus. I KNOW HIM. I might have questions and doubts but I can't turn away. I may find the counter arguments to Christianity weak which therefore bolsters my faith in Christianity but at the end of the day, it's Christ himself who I feel calling me. I've been born again. When I hear deconstruction stories (and I listen to a lot as well), there seems to be a casual casting aside of Christianity which gives me pause to ask, was it ever REALLY real to you? Or did you just THINK it was real? They would say they thought it was real. But, the relief they express over ditching what they thought was Christianity tells me they may not have ever had their heart softened by grace to start with. I could be wrong. Just my two cents. Thanks for all you do!

I cannot thank you enough for this video. For the past couple months, I have been battling with intense anxiety which eventually led to a faith crisis. I’ve watched this a few times and have gotten closer to God than I have ever been in the past months. I believe that if you truly want to believe, the Lord will provide the material, content and verses to deliver you. Thank you for this once again, it helps to have someone who understands just how scary it is.

I’ve been going through a similar process, currently stuck in that place of angst. After a lot of thought I’ve become convinced of God’s existence for all the reasons you mentioned. It makes overwhelming sense to me. But I’ve also become disillusioned with evangelical Christianity and the culture I was raised in. The very idea of religion feels foreign to me right now. It really does feel like an impossible situation because I want to know the truth, and I really don’t think atheism is the right answer, but I really struggle at times to feel like Christianity is the answer either. Right now I feel that angst as much as I ever have, so this video is super helpful. I really appreciate the honesty and your take on this, it’s very encouraging.

I went through this about 12 years ago. The faith built on the ashes is stronger and more joyful

Not sure if you're interested in my story, but I want to share bc your transparency and humility resonate with me. I am currently/have been deconstructing for a few years now. I honestly didn't know it was a "trend" or what it was called until late last year I think? (Some back story: I grew up Baptist and was in church leadership from middle school through college. In college I was apart of a different denomination. I lead Bible studies, mentored students, and was on track to go to seminary.) My goal from the beginning before was to gather more information, and draw conclusions based on the information it was to deconstruct parts of Christianity and not to leave altogether. I really struggled in college because I took a lot of Christian and Judaic studies classes, and the more I learned about how history unfolded, the less "holy" or "hallowed" my faith seemed...it felt more problematic and questionable...and then as political things unfolded the more I felt the need to further reevaluate the foundations of our faith. I'm now mid thirties. I can't deny experiences I've had with the holy spirit, but if anything, I feel more like God has been misrepresented for so long that the way church now is represented is way different than what people were doing and experiencing in "biblical times". I want to deconstruct what is problematic.... And what is questionable.... I want to compare notes with the Bible and with other historic documents at the time.... I want to compare Christian practices and rituals with those of other religions. I've noticed people feeling and experiencing God and with the same or similar results as Christianity. I used to have a reason that Christianity was the only way, but the more I've learned and the more I've observed, discount others' faith seems more problematic. someone pointed out the link between missions and colonialism, and I honestly have never been the same since. One thing that has been nice is that I don't feel mad at God or believe less in him. My view of who he is growing and expanding, and I do still have faith that if he is everything I was taught to believe in, our relationship will withstand this season. You talking about the extremes really resonates with me. The extremes are turbulent and usually do more harm than good. There is a real humility in in admitting that you don't know something and genuinely wanting to understand something outside of your comfort zone. As far as evolution, my thought has always been that it only makes sense that an intelligent God would make his creation in such a way that it could adapt with changing atmospheres over time. Anywho, I know this is very long and may not be read by anyone, but I appreciate you sharing, and this was helpful to listen to for the sake of my own personal journey...great food for thought. Best wishes to you on your journey. 🙂

"It makes such sense, and it's as comfortable as putting your feet in your slippers in the morning." Thanks for sharing your story 🔥🙌🏽

The algorithm just brought this to my timeline… and can’t believe I missed this one. It’s now one of my favorite presentations from you Gavino. Thank you so much for your thoughtful clarity and generous kindness.

Thankyou, this is an encouragement I needed to hear, and I'm also at a loss to understand how faith works when I'm full of faith and praise in the morning but my afternoon my mind is battered by waves of questions and uncertainties.

I, too, had a crisis of faith recently in my 2nd year of seminary. Yet, what kept me from losing my faith was the undeniable living presence of the Holy Spirit within me. How could I actually deny what has given me such a deep joy? After recognizing the assurance of that, I slowly pieced back together the pieces of faith that I was struggling with. God bless

It has me alarmed as well. Someone I love has walked away… so I clicked to hear from you.

Thanks for sharing this Gavin. Peace of Christ be with you

Thanks so much for sharing. I’m in the middle of questioning Evangelicalism/Protestantism and searching out Catholicism, but I watch your videos to balance out the perspective. You do a great job of being extremely honest and understanding of others, and it’s so encouraging to hear reaffirmed that the core truth stands through all the questioning. Thank you!

Thank you for your honesty and integrity, Gavin

Personally, I think people are putting way too much faith in "science". I've spent most of my adult life as an athiest/moral nihilist and studied evolution for years and I don't put my faith in it. The more honest I was about the state of academia and the more I dug, the more I found a cesspool of nepotism, sacred cows, and incredibly bad research. Everything man does is corrupted by sin, his greed and dishonesty can't be so easily brushed aside. The closer I got to Christianity the more the human condition made sense. Sin, our hopelessness, our idol worship (including scientism), combined with hubris, leading to our ruin, cyclical turning away from our creator and inevitavle judgement. Perverse things being taught to children, core concepts being reinvented to suit man's perversions. People compare these large shaky grandiose theories to technology and say "you use an iPhone, that's science, right? Duhr" but there's a world of difference between functional utility driven, industrial/commercial science that yields products you can use and understand in real time and the types of theories posited by evolutionists and theoretical physicists. The last 2 years has put on full display the evil that can be done by scientific endevours; our greed, idolatry, and seeker appealing mentality has lead to some very bad outcomes that well have to deal with for decades. Don't be so quick to dismiss the idea that much of what we've been taught in secular society is, to varying extents, illusions; complex illusions with inner consistency to varying levels, but illusions none the less. Just my 2 cents.

Jeremiah 29:13 “And ye shall seek me and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” That has been my experience. We don’t have to know and understand everything. Trust in Him first, knowing and peace follow.

Finding people that understand me has been the hardest part.

I can’t even.. I’m currently experiencing everything you have expressed on this post and like you, reaching out to God in prayer and remembering His goodness convinces me that this is true. Since I was a child, God’s revelation of His creation and my own self awareness convinced me of His existence and I always go back to that when doubts creep up

I’m watching this video for the second time in a span of a month. I’ve been walking this path, and it’s tough. Thanks for this 🙏🏼

thanks so much for this. honestly yesterday i felt as if i was going through my first moment of deconstruction and i was SCARED. but just like you said, i prayed and God delivered with His word which eased my heart. and then this morning... this video pops up going through exactly what i am feeling. all i can say is thank you, and praise God for He is so faithful.

Thank you so much Dr.Ortlund for making this video. You have no idea how much your empathy and advice comforted my soul.

I grew up in church and was lead astray by watching a lot of documentaries about big bang and evolution. God, in His grace, revealed Himself through a miracle. The Bible is true. Love you, hope you all will find the Truth.

Dr. Ortlund, thank you so much for your work in bringing people to Christ. ✝ I am in RCIA, and for awhile... I was only consuming Catholic content. Recently, I have re-gained a commitment to listen to other faith traditions within Christianity-and your specific theological knowledge has immensely enriched my walk with God. I am so thankful I decided to look beyond my chosen denomination. I appreciate what you do so much!!! ♥✝

I am a Catholic listener/viewer of your channel and very much enjoyed this video! Thanks Gavin

If God be for us then who can be against us? No one not even myself!!

Thank you Gavin for being vulnerable and transparent. He is faithful and so kind.

Gavin, this was so encouraging- a person isn’t crazy to believe, or to *want* to believe in the face of extreme doubt, and the Lord is faithful to not simply meet us, but to wrestle with us in our doubt. He is not a fragile God. Thank you for sharing a glimpse into your win faith life with the channel!

Great job on this, thanks for taking it head-on.

This one should be interesting in light of recent "deconstructions".

This was wonderful. Thanks Pastor!

You captured so much of what I've been through. Appreciate it!

Thank you! So honest. Love this!

Thank you for what you do.

I’ve had to deconstruct and reconstruct on my own. Nobody in my real life understands, and I am the most spiritually grounded person I know. My doubts could harm them, the spiritual confusion would scare them. The core of my faith has gotten stronger, but it’s hard being alone and it has made me a bit angry, bitter, and prideful. There’s no wisdom around me. Everyone is either too young and naive (no fault of their own), or an old person who cannot differentiate between their opinion and biblical truth. I think I have outgrown the churches I’m in, and I want to find stronger and more faithful churches whose pastors are thinking men.

Thank you for your story

Thanks for this, really enjoying the spirit and integrity of your videos. God bless

I’m looking forward to this!

I really appreciate your eloquent, yet no-frills approach to conveying truth on this channel. Thanks for your ministry.

Thanks for sharing this Gavin

Thank you, Gavin. So helpful.

Gavin, You're thinking critically. It's great to hear.

Thank you for being so open and honest brother. I would love the chance to read your book one day, hoping it's soon!

Thank you for testifying to God's faithfulness.

Thank you for your vulnerability. I’m always encouraged by your content. Thank God for his goodness!

You just described what I went through last year, though I didn't go that deep into research. My Pastor was a huge help for me.

Dr. Ortlund, I cannot possibly thank you enough for this video. It affected me deeply and really got me thinking in the right way. Bless you.

Great discussion. Glory to God

Yes Praying works, in very different ways each time. Thank you for the testimony,. Many of your videos have helped me to reconstruct and work through my own questions

Thank you so much for this video!

Thanks for this video and all that you do. I’m currently in my season of doubt and you’re right, it’s a scary place to be if you actually care about your faith and how it impacts your life. I’ve been studying, praying, and talking to others. I’m hopeful things will turn around.

Thank you so much for this video. I grew up in a church that essentially taught literal 6 day creation as a test of orthodoxy. Then I started to study astronomy & paleontology for fun and that view started to crack in me. I did a lot of wrestling with God, I’m still a Christian, but I have to be careful who I share my views with because people can become so heated on that issue in the church.

Thanks again Pastor 👌🏼

Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts. My own deconstruction from synergistic pietism and subsequent reconstruction to monergistic sanctification has been wonderful. PTL for His unfailing grace.

I just really appreciate this video. I appreciate your validation of doubt and questions. Your willingness to explore and question as a pastor! When it comes to psychology of faith, a helpful resource for me has been the Anatomy of the Soul by Curt Thompson, MD. He explores the impact of spiritual practices on the plasticity of the brain. Fascinating connection between neuroplasticity, memory, and spiritual disciplines. I’m a mid 30s pastor and have thoroughly enjoyed your exploration of subjects on doctrinal divisions, the historicity of the faith, and interviews with thought leaders outside of orthodox Christian perspective. Prayer works!

Thank you for sharing your experience and truth. It is so helpful!

Gavin, I really appreciate your honesty and your intellectual search for truth. You continue to impress me.

I loved this man! Be encouraged and thank you for sharing your story. It truly was a gift to me to hear it.

This channel is incredible! Really enjoyed this video. Very encouraging!

Thank you Gavin I respect and appreciate your honesty!

You, The Ten Minute Bible Hour, and Inspiring Philosophy really helped me to find compelling answers to a lot of the questions, and yes, I've thrown stuff out because a lot of things I just don't know, but the core still remains: There needs to be a cause for the universe and the resurrection of Jesus is very compelling! ...And oh boi, it's though sometimes, but yes, prayer helps! A testimony of the faithfulness of God, I loved this last sentence! Edit: Btw. Do you mind learning German so I can interview you on my tiny channel 😜

I am grateful for the genuine humbleness, the spiritual sincerity and the academic effort and transparency of these videos. Please keep on doing them, and if there's any way I can support what you do here, please point me to it! Blessings from a fellow reformed baptist in Colombia, South America

Thanks for posting this Gavin. This video was incredibly encouraging and helpful in showing a model of deconstruction in good faith. Praise be to God that He always meets us where we’re at!

Thank you for this video. I find your work well balanced. And I agree with you about the overreaction.

Just a shout out Gavin, that my wife got me your Augustine book for Christmas and I am really enjoying it thus far. Thanks for taking on the topic in such great detail! Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year!

Thank you so much❤

As a Catholic it is nice to watch one of these videos and be on the same side. Good video!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts in such a vulnerable way. I pray that this video, especially the practical suggestions at the end for those wrestling with similar doubts, will be helpful to others. Working out what parts of our understanding to deconstruct (and reconstruct) is important - seeking truth, I believe, will make that necessary. Your comments about angst and doubt and working through them resonate with me, and as I have worked through them with humility and honesty over many yearrs, my faith has grown. Looking forward to reading your apologetics book - hope it is coming soon.

My story is very similar. Raised in evangelicalism. Cycles of doubt from time to time. The following have kept me in the faith: the idea of the necessity of an original cause and the moral argument, coupled with what would be the honest view of a wholly material universe (nihilism) AND personal prayer/experiences that reveal the hand of God. This is almost identical to Dr. Ortlund's experience.

I grew up in a closed-minded church so i had many doubts but thanfully found apologetics. Thank you for your video gave!

Thank you!

Thank you so much for all of your videos. I find them intellectually interesting and humble. I would love to watch more videos on your thoughts on evolution/creation. Thanks again!

Thanks!

Hello and thank you. I enjoy your channel and always learn so much. This was helpful especially your wise and practical advice. It is good personally and pastorally. I am thankful God gave you such a good brain, education and dedication to help the body of Christ. I also really appreciate your gentleness and care with different points of view. Every blessing to you and your family.

Thanks so much Gavin. You're experience is so helpful and encouraging, especially as I've had some similar experiences. Glory be to our Lord Jesus Christ. When He returns, when shall be truly perfect in Him.

Wow. Thank you for sharing this. I can resonate so much with your story. These past few years have been so tough. My faith was in crisis mode last year especially. I had to confront my own legalism, the fundamentalism that was forced on me. There were a few Christians that truly helped me to hold on despite all the ugliness I was seeing around me. I wish I had heard of you sooner.

This story has a lot on common with my own. It's helpful to know that I'm not the only one that has struggled through this stuff.

I completely relate to your story Gavin. Both the creation evolution debate and the fracturing of the church/denominational differences have been the battles for me. The classic arguments as well as the person of Christ encountered in scripture have always kept me anchored. Thank you for your vulnerability, God bless

God bless you Brother. I really appreciate your testimony in this area. It sounds like my experience has been quite similar. Your apologetics and charity towards others that disagree with Protestantism has convicted me of my shortcoming's In my polemic with my RC friends.

Dude, thank you so much for posting this. Being in the middle of doubt and faith can feel brutal and it is so important to have someone relay their experience that feels similar to my own. Years ago, before these doubts became mainstream, I was ignorant to the reasons for God's existance. Now, after a sea of division and self wrestling, more and more reasons are being built, so perhaps we can at least thank the challenging doubts for that. Could use some prayers, still wrestling with key questions.

Thank you Gavin for sharing your story! I've seen so many of my friends deconstruct their faith and turn their backs on God; it hurts me, and honestly I'm not sure what to do most of the time. I went through a couple seasons of deconstruction and similar to you, my faith actually came out stronger, as I was able to really wrestle with the very difficult questions and ultimately rest in the grace of the Lord.

Dr Ortlund. What a wonderful video. It could have been me in that chair. I honestly gave up “Christianity” at a very young age (12-15) because nothing I was being taught made sense. I only RE-entered the conversation because my kids were getting to the age where they were asking questions and I wanted to give them or point them in the right direction. My wife is Catholic so my first option was to first look there. When I started learning about the Church’s teaching on these exact items, creation, how Scripture is meant to be read, the proofs of Gods existence, I was really pissed. Why did people that I trusted (family) lead me to wasting 45 years of my life! I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to know that there is Truth out there! Thank you again!

Thanks Gavin for this video! I can relate to your struggles with ID and Evolution! This vulnerable video helps me understand you better and I apologize for any animosity I've had towards you lieing under the surface in our interactions.

This is so good Gavin. Thanks for being honest. And it will be great if you could start promoting your books and help us know what is in there :p

I can relate a lot with what you have said. I myself am a very analytical and skeptical person and sometimes I will have weeks of sadness and doubts about my faith. But when I check out the arguments and ideas of atheists it honestly makes me even more depressed looking at the conclusion of a purely naturalistic worldview. I truly do think there are great reasons for faith but a lot of the times I just get overwhelmed with the almost infinite number of worldviews and interpretations out there. Your video has been a great blessing to me, and I can relate to it a lot. God bless.

Thank you very much for this video! I actually was big fans of Rhett and Link and when their "deconstruction" stories came out I was very discouraged (especially since I have had similar doubts) despite their non-antagonistic tone. I think you provide a good response for people with doubts/angst with your own story and by suggesting a better foundation/core than Rhett and Link had (which was basically that they thought they only needed to believe in a historical Jesus).

I spent a lot of time studying philosophy and argument's from God after coming through a period of fairly deep Skepticism and dabbling with Nihilism. I have always had a passion for literature and read a lot of existentialism such as Jean Paul Sarte, Nietsze and Camus. I really like Kierkegeaard, Kant, Dostoevsky and Tolstoy as well. I spent a lot of time in 19th century Russian literature and German authors (Boll, Grass, Mann, Goethe, Fallada etc). I then study historical theological such as Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin etc. After all, my Faith has come out the other end much stronger.

Thank you for sharing, Gavin. My story is different, but I wholeheartedly agree with you that while I have "deconstructed" some things I grew up with, the center and foundation of my faith has become so much stronger. I suppose I've realized that too many things were part of the "center" when they shouldn't have been. Hopefully, it has made me more gracious to those who disagree with me on such things.

Thanks, Gavin. All you've said is helpful. I'm an evangelical and Reformed Christian with a scientific background. Regarding "evolution": 1. Unless I missed it (quite possible), I didn't see you define what you meant by evolution? Of course, in responding to a position, it's important to define our terms at the outset or else we might risk talking past one another. I think what's usually meant by "evolution" is neo-Darwinism. That's what someone like Richard Dawkins, Jerry Coyne, and even the late great Ernst Mayr usually mean(t) by the term evolution. That's what Intelligent Design theorists like Michael Behe, William Dembski, Stephen Meyer, and others mean by the term evolution. 2. In addition, it's important to see the best arguments for and against a position like neo-Darwinism. I think one of the key problems with Rhett and Link (and those like them) is that they never attempted to look at the best arguments against neo-Darwinism. Rather they're largely dealing with fundamentalist Young Earth Creationists. (By the way, I'm not a YEC.) And even within YECs, I never saw Rhett and Link address the best of the YECs. Say someone like Todd C. Wood or Jonathan Sarfati. Indeed, Wood has even gotten into some controversy among fellow YECs when (from their perspective) Wood affirmed many of the tenets of neo-Darwinism. Yet Wood remains a YEC. Again, I'm not a YEC, but I appreciate Wood's stance which tackles the science head-on and admits many deficiencies in the YEC position. At the same time, Wood argues it's certainly possible to affirm many of the tenets of neo-Darwinism while maintaining a YEC position. Wood is a reasonable-minded YEC, but too many people including Rhett and Link dismiss YECs in general as if most all of them are of the same mind. 3. The arguments for and against neo-Darwinism aren't necessarily limited to scientific arguments. Obviously the science is foundational. However, neo-Darwinists often take philosophical positions in discussing neo-Darwinism or the implications of neo-Darwinism too. For instance, consider Dawkins' statements about how "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist", about the mere "appearance" of design as opposed to the reality of design, about how "the universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference", and so forth. I wonder if people like Rhett and Link have deeply considered the philosophical arguments and implications of, say, Dawkins' atheism and neo-Darwinism. Logically the two are separable, but someone like Dawkins sees a connection. 4. However, even if one accepts neo-Darwinism - which I don't, at least not whole hog - where's the logical inconsistency with being a neo-Darwinist and a theist? Consider someone like Francis Collins. Heck, even Michael Behe, who is one of the leading critics of neo-Darwinism, is a theistic evolution (e.g. Behe accepts universal common descent), though of course Behe would say he's not a neo-Darwinist. The crux of the matter in this case is whether evolution is fundamentally a guided or directed process (i.e. guided or directed by God in Behe's view as Behe is Catholic) or whether evolution is fundamentally an unguided or undirected process (i.e. accidental or random - and I mean random more in a philosophical sense than a scientific sense). 5. That brings me to my next point: there are other theories of evolution besides neo-Darwinism. For example, Joshua Swamidass (whom I have strongly disagreed with) is effectively a theistic evolutionist, though he's coy about it. But what's relevant here is that Swamidass doesn't subscribe to neo-Darwinism, and he will deny that he's a neo-Darwinist, but he does subscribe to a newer theory of evolution known as the Neutral Theory of (Molecular) Evolution. 6. Indeed, there are atheist and agnostic scientists who have sharply criticized neo-Darwinism. See University of Chicago professor James Shapiro and his book Evolution: A View from the 21st Century as a prime example. See Denis Noble of the University of Oxford and his book The Music of Life: Biology Beyond the Genome. See Gerd Muller at the University of Vienna and his book Evolution: The Extended Synthesis. I could list many others (e.g. Eugene Koonin, Eva Jablonka, Stuart Newman). But just look at a website called the Third Way of Evolution to see many secular scientists who criticize neo-Darwinism. These aren't fundamentalist Christians or otherwise religiously motivated. And most if not all of them affirm a different theory of evolution. But my point here is simply that neo-Darwinism is not beyond scientific criticism, even among secular scientists who argue for evolution. 6. In general, it's sufficient to criticize a theory or position even if we offer no alternatives to offer in its place. It's sufficient to criticize a theory on its own merits or demerits without arguing for an alternative option. In short, one can criticize neo-Darwinism without necessarily subscribing to intelligent design. 7. Regarding intelligent design, there are Christian theists who have criticized essential aspects of intelligent design, even if they remain friendly to intelligent design. (I guess this sort of parallels secular evolutionists criticizing neo-Darwinism while remaining friendly to evolution.) For instance, Alvin Plantinga and Del Ratzsch are notable Christians who have done this. There are various ways to argue for design, but not all of them are necessarily successful (e.g. design as an argument from analogy, design as an inductive argument, design as an inference to the best explanation, various Bayesian arguments for design). At this point, I'm inclined to agree with Plantinga and Ratzsch's criticisms against, say, Behe, and I'm inclined to agree with Plantinga and Ratzsch's arguments favoring "perceiving design". See the chapter on design in Plantinga's book Where the Conflict Really Lies.

Low key angst....best description I've heard!!

Thank you