Just for cost reduction.

France and Germany are even closer partners, actually. To the point that they have combined military formations.

Sure. GoodGermanGear!

Oh yes Siemens,he discovered insignificant things like the dynamo-electric principle, also known as the electrodynamic principle, and is considered the founder of modern electrical engineering, especially electrical energy engineering.

I've been inside a Siemens MRI a few times and it was like being inside a torpedo tube.

Worlds largest engineering technology company. The bigger question is what machine or technology they have not had their hand in? I commute downtown in a Siemens light rail train.

Their MRT x ray tubes are also the best

Displacement (surface): ~ 2,500 m³ Length overall: ~ 73 m Beam: ~ 10 m Height: ~ 13 m For comparison: U212A Displacement (surface): ~ 1,400 m³ Length overall: ~ 56 m Beam: ~ 7 m Height: ~ 11.5 m It's really a whole new class.

Would be cool if the Dutch joined in with Den Helder becoming a maintenance hub for all nations servicing 212 class subs as proposed in the German bid. The Netherlands have yet to decide on the replacement of their Walrus-class subs.

@@CidFafner Are there any "real" specs out for the 212 CD E design yet? I just watched the presentation. I bet the RAN will have a look on it, as an alternative for their "SSN" venture.

@@CidFafner didn't they went for the Saab/Damen one?

@@DarkDutch007 we might now by the end of 2022

There is no need for Germany to offer SNNs, for everyone who wants one builds it's own, Except Australia. Better to tailor subs like 212 A. They can be scaled to 4,000 tons ( Type 216) +.

@@EK-gr9gd also its area of operation doesnt really need the nuclear propulsion

@@V-V1875-h In the Baltic Sea the distances and time of travel to and from anywhere in there are not huge. Not only that, it would be a disadvantage to have a huge reactor compartment to house a nuclear reactor because that sets the minimum diameter of the pressure hull. The whole boat needs to be as thin and low profile as possible to be optimal in the Baltic Sea. There are but a few routes gigantic nuclear submarines can travel.

Nuclear submarines only make sense if you want to hunt ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) under the polar ice. Because this is the place where they hide from satellites.

only a bit...

That would be pretty rad. ^^

I thought IDAS is medium range missile, like Harpoon but smaller and shorther range plus wire guided

@@ramal5708 Harpoon is primarily Anti-Ship with a range of up to 250km. IDAS is a 20km range Anti-Air missle. Sort of a selfdefence weapon against aerial threats. It can be used against ships as well.

@@nonyabisness6306 I guess you know more than I do, I was mistaken not Harpoon but should be SM-2 missile cuz it could target both aircraft and vessels. I just copying from Wiki "IDAS technology is that is primarily targeted against air threats, such as ASW helicopters, but also against small or medium-sized surface vessels or coastal land targets."

@@ramal5708 afaik SM-2 can't be launched from submerged subs and has a range of 167km. There's a french version of IDAS called A3SM and there was development of AIM-9X in the US. A3SM is based, like IDAS, on the IRIS-T. At least in part. For some reason people don't want AA on their Subs and only really develop CruiseMissle and Ballistic Missle Launchers. The tech could be more widespread, with several Users keeping it secret to maintain an advantage for their subs. It's not that complicated.

Next time!

@@SubBrief And you will probably fin that the first such picture was taken by ITS Todaro in 2008 from 7,000 yards.

@@antoniopirisi6061 not quite: the first one was the U24 (a class 206 boat) on the JTFEX 01-2 maneuver in 2001. Shooting a nice picture of the enterprise through the priscope while simulating a torpedo attack on the carrier. After that it surfaced beside the carrier.

Very cool!

@@SubBrief About that non-magnetic hull on Type-212A, is it only the outer hull? I thought they were using non-magnetic steel for the pressure hull as well and was looking forward to hear your thoughts on how it fares against Magnetic Anomaly Detectors.

​@@death_paradeafaik the whole thing is as much as possible made from amag steel. Possibly even the diesel engine has some

That you know of, ;)

@@grindergaming4572 "red october theme starts"

Regards from Germany, this very documentary is a cult-classic for german naval fans. Actually it should get dubbed to english because it's quite funny and the sub's commander Lars Gössing is kind of the poster boy / public figure of the contemporary german submarine fleet.

What is the name of the documentary?

@@spitefulwar I am quite sure that one of the documentaries featuring him did get dubbed.

@@spitefulwar Gössing later transferred to the Naval School and commanded U Boat training.

​@@spitefulwaris that the one with the storm?

IDAS has about 12km range

@@zhufortheimpaler4041 Official, public range. Who knows whats the actual range is.

Iris-t on duty in Ukraine right now

@@user-kd2ij7te5v yessir

Yes, actually quite often the beer is stored there.

sound legit, during my service time in the bundesmarine (on a tender) we had the beer bottles in the cannon-barrels :)

It's a great documentary and the automated subtitles aren't that bad. I really recommend watching it.

Learning German is not so hard = "Deutsch lernen ist nicht so hart"

@@minimax9452 *looking at the compound words* Okay, it's just English's cousin. Shouldn't be that hard, they're all related, just a few times removed.

@@Joshua_N-A It should be easy for an english speaker to learn german. English is a germanic language the linguists say ;-)

@@minimax9452 compared to Russian, Arabic or Chinese its actually rather easy to learn... for an English speaker ...

For the first batch. The last two 212a do have another system.

Not sure how the export version differs. Greece has a few of them, too.

@@Gentleman...Driver no such thing, Greece, Turkey and South Korea have the U 214 which is a completely different submarine then the U212A which is only operated by the Germans and Italians,

@@antoniopirisi6061 U214 is based on 212A. In fact it is almost the same, but it lacks the stealth-paint and the electronic warfare as far as I can tell.

@@Gentleman...Driver The 212As have a non-magnetic steel hull. That means better stealth, but less structural strength and thus less diving depths (internet rumor: 3-400m vs 4-500m for normal operations; destruction occurs a lot deeper only ...). 214 is also longer and has more overall range when using the diesel. Also, there are now 4 generations of the fuel cell tech. The export boats usually are one generation behind the 212s.

If I saw correctly they're crazy enough to use Windows as the operating system lol.

@@dingdong2103 imagine getting the cascading window error from xp while diving

Ehhhh. It sounds good but I'm dubious that any captain worth his bars would give away his position by using that. Stealth isnt just their greatest asset it's also their best defense. If you're detected best to evade and clear.

@@navyreviewer You can always take several MANPADS in the event of an extreme emergency.

@@navyreviewer if possible, sure. But that can be real difficult in the narrow and flat Baltic sea.

@@navyreviewer there were already several tests as early as 2008, where the system was tested and it performed like it should. if you are in littoral operations like the baltic and close to the shores in the north sea, you cant just go for depth or evade, as the water is often less than 70m deep. the baltic sea is a puddle, the north sea is for large stretches very shallow and some areas are only acessible with small boats for a few hours a day, due to tides (around the coast of germany, the netherlands, france and britain for 8 hours a day the water just vanishes for sometimes dozens of kilometers. if you are caught in these waters by an anti submarine plane/helicopter you are a sitting duck

@@navyreviewer the ability to shoot down anti-submarine aircraft is very important, for a shallow water submarine. and being able to launch them, while submerged, is crazy. also, the real interesting bit, is that it's a (fiber optic) wire guided model, which means you can do some interesting stuff with that missile. could even be useful to cause an aircraft to panic, which that alone is useful, breaking off attack runs, or searches to evade. there is also the ability to "go offensive" with the missiles, opening up a new mission profile for the sub, say, if intel discovered that an enemy ranking officer is moving up close to the front, you could shoot down their plane or helo, with a range of 12 kilometers. short ranged compared to cruise missile missions, but the baltic is so tight... anti-submaine aircraft are quite vulnerable to this kind of attack (esp as with a wire guided system, you could technically manually guide the missile (with visual and or IR or even radar sensors) like a wire guided anti-tank weapon (which requires skill and practice, but is harder to fake out in theory with normal countermeasures). hell, with a change out of warhead, you could basically be shooting Hellfire missiles from a submarine just off the coast. once you get the tech down where you are firing missiles without capsules from submerged state... all sorts of possibilities.

There are 4 levers - one for each plane - and some rather complicated gauges in the emergency control stand. Normally, the boat is driven by someone with a mouse and keyboard (a wee bite like WASD mechanics).

@@floriantolk4920 It was a reference for the machinima series "Red vs. Blue" by Rooster Teeth. @OP Here have an upvote.

@@Llyd_ApDicta Ahh. Thanks for making me aware!

Has very long coastal line and cyrstal clear waters

@@XIIItan Who doubt it? But it's not shallow.

Did I say the Med was shallow?

@@SubBrief Thanks for the likes. Yes, at 2:31 ;)

That's just the average (arithmetic mean). What's the median, modal value, variance and standard deviation? Just as an example: If 90% is 50m deep and 10% is 5000m deep, the average depth is 545m. However you would be foolish to design a submarine optimized for that average depth when in reality most of the time you only have 50m. Another example: There are nine vegetable farmers and one pig farmer. The pig farmer has 10 pigs, so on average every farmer has one pig. Good luck trying to get your average bacon from one of the vegetable farmers ...

its also a sub they go deep and pressure changes, compresses the oxygen witch is also extremely cold.

Correct. Liquid hydrogen has twice the explosive power of gasoline by weight, but only 25% by volume. That's because a molecule of hydrogen takes up the same space as a molecule of gasoline in spite of being much lighter. But a molecule of hydrogen has only two hydrogen atoms, whereas a molecule of octane has eighteen.

They are storing the Hydrogen as Metal-hydrate, not as a gas under pressure. I think I read somewhere that it's supposedly Palladiumhydrate, but I can't confirm that. The Oxygen is stored as a compressed gas.

@@JainZar1 Several methods for compacting the hydrogen have been tried. But all involve considerable industrial processing and are far more complicated and energy-intense than pouring a liquid.

@@shane99ca You do realize, that keeping hydrogen at cryogenic temperatures for months requires either a) insane amounts of insulation or b) large amounts of energy to refrigerate the hydrogen using helium as refrigerant. Also, due to the constant evaporation in a line that goes into the water, the system would be a huge noise offender. Utilizing Metal-hydrates, you can store Hydrogen pretty efficiently by just increasing or decreasing pressure inside the storage tanks without any noise. And the process for hydrogen liquefaction is pretty much the end-all be all in terms of refrigeration, only Helium is harder to liquefy and you do both by evaporation cooling. Liquid Helium is used in Microwave sensors that need to get down to 4K for example.

👍👍

Is there a NSFW variant? ;-)

Funny, I find it completely ugly. Short and knobby, not like the old sleeker 206s or the big nuclear driven NATO subs. ^^

Type VIIC is the most beautifull submarine.

It doesn't surprise me if there are probes that is capable of active and passive including the possibility to transmit the sound of a submarine as a decoy.

i am guessing you are going to genova then, if yes i have visited that submarine myself in the past , amazing boat and wonderful experience

@@roccaraso1771 how loud is it?

@@mtumeumrani376 never heard it running, i went into the one that was turned into a museum, altough i have to say (expectable of a sub) its not that big of a ship, at least on the inside. altough it was the first sub i ever visited

@@roccaraso1771 i never heard of a modern submarine turned into a museum. Here in the U.S, the Navy occasionally lets the public tour active surface ships for recruiting/pr purposes. I've visited two active Navy ships growing up: USS Caron and possibly USS Chosin when they had visited CT in the late 90s and early 2000s. People would travel the world to see the inside of a Typhoon or Kirov.

@@mtumeumrani376 i definitely would travel half the world to see a Typhoon :D

Great suggestion!

True and if you get lucky, you get to see when they test them😁

Testing can go longer than that before it finally enter service. Gotta iron out the bugs first.

@@Joshua_N-A testing has been going on for a decade, with life firings from German and Italian subs. Official Bundeswehr sources are planning on official introduction in 2023 and in service on the first subs in 2024, as part of the general refit cycle. Covid might add half a year or so to the time line.

The 2+4 treaty does forbid Germnay from having its own nukes, though. Thus its Tornados are carrying American nukes. And what does the Marder have to do with anything? The Marder II was killed by the peace dividend, not any treaty or even political limitations ...

@@positroll7870 AFAIK the German government's will to refrain from aquiring nukes was a sself voluntary descision signed in an extra agreement and is not part of the basic 2+4 treaties, but I may be wrong here

@@phil3114 Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany September 12, 1990 ARTICLE 3 (1) The Governments of the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic reaffirm their renunciation of the manufacture and possession of and control over nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. They declare that the united Germany, too, will abide by these commitments. In particular, rights and obligations arising from the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons of 1 July 1968 will continue to apply to the united Germany.

Auto translated subtitles work reasonably well. I'll add a link when I'm back at my computer...

Or just TKMS.

In general his German pronounciasion was horrible. But considering the high quality of the video, and that he's American (which is in another world from German pronounciasion) it's unimportant.

That is not the only German or Italian mispronunciations. Irregardless His videos are excellent

epic mod -> surface -> enjoy :)

@@emperorSbraz the good thing about idas is that you don't have to surface to fire at the heli.

@@positroll7870 100% correct

Think of it, the sub is made for waters so shallow and places so narrow, it's not like they have any choice but to fight back if they want to survive, but they have to shoot first. If the ASW weapon is on the way, it's like fire and forget 👩‍🔧🇺🇲🛠️🇷🇺

that was never planned.

@@comsubpac In Germany we say:" Sag niemals nie" "say never never" Kappa

@@klauskoerper2390 Die Aussage war aber, dass es nie geplant war was vollkommen korrekt ist. Natürlich kann es in Zukunft geplant werde, aber das ist erstens nicht zu erwarten und würde zweitens an der urpsprünglichen Aussage nichts ändern.

eine deck kanone würde die stealth eigenschaften ruiniern, also ich machs mal und sag: "Nie"

There was some preliminary planning wheter it was feasible to mount the Mauser RMK30 inside a pressure container attached to an extendable mast. But it was dropped for complexity reasons much because RMK30 is a recoilless autocannon that was designed for land/air use and would have required additional recertification and redesign for naval use. In a way this was seen as a stop-gap measure if the development of IDAS would prove to be a total writeoff/failure.

Clancy praised the German subs in his book "Submarine".

@@EK-gr9gd and?

@@thomasputko1080 and what? His later non-fictional books were accused of being too "focused" on the US forces. In the short summary on the other sub building nations he just gave facts, no belittling or anything disrespectful.

Hi. Could you please tell me what are the operational advantages of PEM fuel cells when compared to Phosphoric Acid Fuel Cells?

Well, hot bunking is sort of a tradition in the German Navy. ;)

@@GeorgHaeder The 688er reintroduced it into the USN.

Hopefully the German torpedoes will be for defense after the past two world wars 😉

@@NathanDudani A torpedo's purpose is the same wether you are defending or offending, it;s role is to sink ships and submarines,

@@NathanDudani Don't worry - in the current political climate within the country Germany attacking any nation for whatever reason is not even half as likely as the U.S. becoming a socialist state.

Both terms are used in fuel cells. Polymer electrolyte membranes exchange protons...

Yes, they ordered the successor of the 212a Class. It's calles 212cd, cd standing for common design. So Norway and Germany are basically egnineering and building this new sub together and this help bonding both Navies and cutting costs.

So far ger is getting 2 of them. There are options for 4 more. But if the Dutch order the proposed cd-e, Germany might go for more of those instead, depending on needs.

@@positroll7870 A county like Norway has a much, much longer coastline compared to Germany og The Nederlands. Norway had 15 subs when the first cold war ended. With round 2 looming now, there is no reason to have lesser numbers.

@@hantykje3005 there is nothing to stop Norway or Germany from ordering more if the first batch works as planned. Same pattern for the original 212a. First batch ordered., tested and evaluated. Then ger bought a second batch. Norway might also be watching if the Dutch order the cd-e and then order a few of those instead of a second batch. Use the smaller CD close to shore and the bigger cde out in the Atlantic or closer to Russia...

I don't thin VR is a good idea. You don't get a stereoscopic image anyways and nothing beats your eyes in terms of reliability.

@@KP3droflxp Well, I'd assume it would be more advanced tech that available today. And make stereoscopic possible. It's not an impossibility as far as I know. But yeah, just random idea.

@@jonny-b4954 I think it definitely should be possible to get a stereoscopic view from the periscope. But why? The targets are too far away to perceive any depth so current periscopes just show the same image for both eyes.

@@KP3droflxp Ah, I had misread your previous comment.

Submarines from most nations get inside carrier groups pretty consistently during exercises, so it's likely that an admiral lost his post over it. Surface ships are at a pretty tremendous disadvantage against submarines because of their high noise and difficulty sensing below the layer.

​@@WerepieI'm not sure I'd say it happens "consistently". The few examples I've heard of seemed to be rare enough to be reported in the news -- and in this particular incident, the admiral was said to have been furious about getting blindsided like that. Carrier groups feature sophisticated rings of escorts with ASW capabilities, after all. Then again, perhaps it is simply a case of hubris and too much trust in one's own invulnerability due to all that expensive high-tech surrounding the CV? I believe the incident JeWi's comment was referring to is something that occurred in 2001, maybe it's just become more commonplace since then.

Former SIGINT guy here - this is all about the angle to the recorded source. As a vessel moves through the water, the bearing angle changes and after a few minutes you get several different lines of bearing that can be overlaid to produce an approximate fix. Water conditions will change that a bit based on many factors, but that's basically it. For us ground types, we'd have a series of intercept stations that could conduct Df operations. Get 3 or more fixes on an enemy transmitter? You've got a fire mission.

It's all just trigonometry

yes there are: in 2013 U32 "sunk" an us aircraft carrier during an excercise without getting detected, but also performed battlegroup defense, protecting the carrier from engaging surface and submerged vessels, the evaluation was, that 212A performed beyond expectations. it happens quite often that "Diesel Electric Boats" like the modern Gotland Class or 212A but also 206A can infiltrate a carrier group and sink the carrier during excercises, as the carrier group makes a lot of noise and these boats can mask their approach with that, unlike a nuclear sub, wich is a bit louder than one of these. that is also the reason, why us carrier groups do regular excercises with these boats, to increase their ability to detect and counter them.

@@zhufortheimpaler4041 Thanks for the Info! :) Do have any sources for me? It is quite frightening that a "cheap" diesel sub is such a huge threat to a complete carrier group. Thinking of defending Taiwan etc.

@@Blubber789 2001 JTFEX 01-02 U24 (206A Dieselsub) infiltrated Enterprises inner defense perimeter, fired a simulated torpedo spread and green Flares and surfaced next to Enterprise without being detected previously. a foto was taken priot to surfacing through the targeting periscope. 1997 at SUBEX97 in the carribean U26 several times passed a Los Angeles Class Nuclear Attack Sub in extremly close proximity without being detected during a combat simulation, the diesel sub had the objective to hunt the LA class during that excercise. during the Falkland war, the San Luis, a 209 Diesel Sub closed to torpedo range with the british battle group and fired a spread of 8 guided torpedos at the invincible, only due to bad crew training nothing major happened. (incorrectly mounted cables on the torpedos) the british on the other hand "wasted" about 100 anti uboat torpedos in return but also missed. then the Gotland Class, wich had done comparable actions during multinational excercises with us carrier groups.

@@Blubber789 it helps knowing the general area where the carrier will be. Luckily, the pacific is rather big, and the Chinese subs are rather loud. Also, a fully equipped and armed u212a comes in at around a billion dollars, so it's not that cheap...

@@zhufortheimpaler4041 Its quite an accomplishment, but what they did was basicly playing dead - no engines running at all. They knew where the carrier was going and as soon as the carrier past them they fired their simulated torpedoes. I dont think a carrier group would venture into the north sea / baltic sea in a full scale war against Russia. They would be sitting ducks. :)

The "Aussies" rejected a 212 design, called Type 216. I bet they will swim to Kiel or Emden to test one of the 212 CD E class, and beg TKMS to tailor them such a boat.

Hi, I work for Atlas Elektronik (part of TKMS) and we're the ones building the torpedoes, among other things, for this boat. The DM2A4 is simply packed to the brim with lithium batteries (these are fit in modules, as mentioned in the video) and is steered by sheer force. ;) I guess it's the same with other types.

The only winning move....

No, not really. Weight is distributed even.

yeah, thats why internet for german citiziens is still in the stoneages. all fiberoptic cables where needed elsewhere.

You are confusing completely different times though.

no, the "launching magazin tube" with the four IDAS stays in the torpedotube so all four missles could be lauched idenpendently and when empty (or the tube is needed for another task) it is restockt in the torpedomagazin by the autoloader

They have different props for real military operations. For transit and public events they will change the prop

Well, we tax payers want to know where our money went. So we force our government to tell us. Of course they don't tell anything and especially not crucial informations that could be used against those subs, but every other thing the gotta tell.

might be the real prop, might be not :)

I dont, and the reason is range. US subs, mostly, have to sail from the US to the other side of the planet. Diesels can do it but nuke buys that long submerged patrol time. Dont get me wrong I'm not knocking diesels. I do believe the US should making some for training and export (akin to the F-5 freedom fighter) but for us it doesnt fit into our strategy.

@@navyreviewer True, but what if thy were to be based at foreign bases? Yokosuka for example or souda bay in the mediterranean etc.

@@navyreviewer us subs have to be stationed in the US BECAUSE they are nuclear powered. If the US navy bought eg 6 u212cd-e for the north Atlantic and 6 for the med, it could easily station them in European ports. Freeing up some of its ssn for the pacific.

There's a coop between norway and germany - i think potentially poland - to build a bigger sub together that also suits the norwegen demand to guard a real costline and the german demand to support safety missions on trade routes.

@@keepingcalm6469 So stupid to deploy a submarine for escorting missions on trade routes. A Corvette/Frigate is much more capable in doing this sort of missions and you wouldnt waste money on a design you dont need.

@@Gentleman...Driver Escorting Alone is not the Mission - SigInt is.

@@keepingcalm6469 A Frigate would excel in this, too. Only thing a sub would be good for is if you dont want to get detected by a foreign power like Iran.

Germany doesn't necessarily have a budgetary problem, but the fact that a lot of the money put into its military gets siphoned off by consultancys instead of going into stuff like maintenance etc.

no budget problem but wrong decisions made to relay on the service of privat companys with repair and spare parts - this is changing now...

@@heimdalshorn Should copy the Italian Navy on the maintenance side, they had no problem because when they contract the construction in the price is included the maintenance for 10 years.

Hey, after my local surplus store closed, it's basically my go-to place for surplus. A joke, maybe, but a good one.

New German-Norwegian u212 CD project has a hexagonal hull for stealth purposes, defeating active sonar. Same for proposed u212 cd-e that the Dutch might be getting.

Well the noise is obviously classified, but it is almost certainly quieter than the currently operating nuclear subs.

@@duffman5z Severodvinsk.