Thank you... Still waiting for our little helper to show up for her first day of work. It should be any day now.

I feel these delivered QB wings with LCP in them is the biggest challenge for Vans. There is no clean solution. I want to be able to just "Swap" them for a good set of wings. But the freight shipping on them was $2,000 one way. Shipping alone makes it a big expense to recover from. We still have hope that our Wings are in good shape without LCP. I just need to clean up our garage so I can gain access and do a full inspection. What I can see so far tells me I'm safe to build on. But I can't make that final call until I complete a full detailed inspection.

Document that you replaced All LCPs even the ones they say are OK in your log. Keep the invoices for a new buyer. Then it will be fine.

Glad to hear you won't have to unbuild to start building again... By the time we go to sell these airplanes, this won't be as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. If you followed the process and replaced the parts and the plane is flying good, it will sell.

I hope so too

Has your little helper arrived yet?

@@MetroDrones not yet. For sure by Oct 10th. But we are still hoping she come naturally any minute now.

I feel you. I’ve considered switching to another manufacturer because I really want to build something but at this point, I’ve got too much invested in Vans. I can’t take the $50,000 hit so I’m just gonna wait it out and build on

The thing that scares me about other manufacturers is they don't have the experience that Van's does. For all we know the others have done similar issues but no one "Caught" them. And would they stand up and do the right things to resolve them? Yes, Van's did make a really bad mistake here. No, it should have never happened. But on the plus side, Vans is standing up and working with us to do the right thing. I still trust Van's 50+ year history to produce a quality safe airplane.

@@N14VE I agree Vans has a great track record for excellence in engineering. What they lack is an understanding of PR and a respect for the influence of social media. I sent Greg a message about this right when the laser cut parts issue hit the fan but it apparently fell on deaf ears. They had a very short window to respond properly but missed it. I hope Vans learns from this and puts steps in place to avoid something similar from happening again in the future.

The sad thing is, for the Laser Cut parts that were produced per spec, they are actually fine. It is only the batches from the 1 or 2 vendors that didn't follow the spec that are really bad. Still, Laser cut parts are a thing of the past. There is no going back to them ever again.

The issue is that the subcontractor that did the laser cutting changed how the holes were cut. The way the laser cutter works is that it fires up the laser then moves the gantry, which means that the laser is momentarily stationary, which heat treats the metal. So if you design the cut so the laser starts up, moves to the edge of the hole, finishes the hole, moves to the middle of the hole and then shuts off, all is good. Apparently they used this cutting method that avoided heat treating, but changed it for some reason, probably speed. The cut they used momentarily paused the laser at the same point - start up and at shut off, and that point was at the edge of the hole. Hence the problem.

Why didnt vans require vendor IDs, batches, dates in all the parts? Seems old school met modern reality.

Some people have started to sell their kits off.

@@N14VE Pretty gutsy to be buying a kit at this time. I guess some people have lots of cash and maybe the equipment to make parts if needed in the future. I'm sure many builders have had sleepless nights.

@@elkskiutah8204doesn’t really matter because you can’t call vans today and place an order. They are working on getting things straightened out to complete the orders already placed.

@@N14VE it just seems like a gamble to buy someone's vans kit right now. If its not a full kit, will you be able to get the remaining kits ever? I would imagine some builders who thought they were nearing completion and perhaps already at the end of their or spouses limit may toss in the towel. I dispise the billing side of my business and I cant imagine the spread sheets some of you are making. I have subbed to all the van builders and especially the couples who are doing it together.

As far as getting started, it is all sorted out now. And if you are ready to start, I'd order a kit now. Vans will make sure only good Punched parts go out the door. At Oshkosh Vans did do a good job addressing this. They even held a forum where they talked about it for an hour in great detail. I doubt they would have brought it up at the booth unless asked, but they did address it very proactively.

@@N14VE Okeedoke. I'm ordering the emp kit next week. Here we go.

You wouldn’t be saying that if you’d just spent most of your savings on two QB kits that arrived a month ago and were full of cracks and zero reply to emails from Van’s.

@@stevev3630 That is a terrible situation. I could well have been in that exact situation if I had started last year, as I very nearly did. I am sure that Vans will step up, they seem to be straight shooters, I'm surprised they're not answering emails. I hope they will at the very least leave you with zero financial burden, even if you have to do a month of extra work. A bad situation all round.

This whole thing has been a huge challenge for builders and Vans. On one side, yes Vans made the mistake and they need to stand behind it and their customers/builders. On the other side, we are home builders and are acting as the A&P of the aircraft. When Piper or Cessna comes out with an AD that requires a lot of work to comply with, the A&P still has to do the work. You don't just take the plane back to the dealer and have it done. So as long as Vans is shipping out the required parts at no cost and making it as easy as possible to replace and fix then we as builders have to do some of the work. I'd hate to build my own airplane just to have someone else come in and tear it down to replace something. How do I know that person will rebuild it as good as I did?

How much of your kits have you already built? Are you going to have to drill out a lot and rebuild?

Thankfully, I just started my slow build in the spring. I have my vertical stab built and do not have any problems with it. My horizontal stab is completely ready to rivet together but I have been waiting as the front and rear spars are on the list. I know the front spars came from Van's but probably not my rear. I did not notice any indicators related to the laser parts issue so I am just trying to figure out where they came from since my elevator mounts to that thing. If I decide not to use them, I am going to just build an entire new horizontal stab kit since I do not want to try and match drill through skin holes that are already dimpled. I show some parts on my last build video that are just scorched so I am not using ANY part if they are on the list. I felt bad hearing about the people you know that have given up. I am a single, blue collar guy and this project is moronically expensive so if I had to spend a lot of money reordering parts they don't cover, I would have given up too. I have a very specific financial plan for this to work with some wiggle room but I am supporting my oldest niece while she is time building on her way to the airlines AND paying for my 16 year old niece's flight training during all this so I really am not in the mood for shenanigans. LOL@@N14VE

I took a look at your most recent video on your KZfaq and left a few comments. Most of your parts covered in Blue are good to go. On your Horz Stab... I can't see the quality of the holes. But if they were laser cut parts that needed to be replaced, even when dimpled, the Notch in the hole would be VERY visible. If you are seeing a smooth hole with no notch, I would build on and not replace.

I will admit that my dimpled holes on my rear spar seem to be beautiful so I am feeling confident. They definitely did not have the blue film on them like the front spars so I need to find out if Van's sent parts out like that as well for future reference.@@N14VE

Van's has published that: Not All Punched Parts (Good Parts) have blue cover on them. There are times that punched parts have the Blue removed in manufacturing for a number of reasons. So just because it doesn't have blue, doesn't make it bad. If it has Blue on it, it is 100% not Laser Cut. Because the Blue HAS to be removed in order to do the laser process. The real determining factor is the quality of the Holes. Laser cutting doesn't make it a bad hole. The laser cutting the hole wrong is what makes it bad. Wrong is defined by that extra burn mark that appears as a peak in the hole.

I've never seen an Insurance company do anything due to an issue like this. Piper Wing Spar AD, several major ADs on Cessna Cardinals and 210s, and insurance isn't a problem. I think people are making things sound worse than they are.

@@N14VE Maybe. Maybe not. If I had 10G in a QB wing? No way I’d suck up 10G, then have to tear down and rebuild a set I paid to have complete. The absolute least Vans could do would be take the old QB wings back and send the builder a fresh kit. They are not trying to make this right. Lucky we had just finished the VS.

@@Pilotpaulie the quick build aspect of this is the worst for sure. Problem with just taking it back is the shipping cost. It was 2k to a third party to get my wings here.

@@N14VE we are lucky that the vertical stab was the only piece we had completed. Still it will probably cost a couple thousand to repair their mistake. Third R.V. we have built. 6a, 12is and now this. Was planning on ordering a 15 at Osh this year, but we all know the story on that. Vans is defiantly been off the tracks this past couple of years. Hope they survive. Hope other manufacturers learn from those mistakes.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/abejmdpn1dOslWg.htmlsi=eBnU4wP8UgRopF4Y Ouch. Solvency will be tough.

I get it. But I am also not going to condemn my Quick Build wing that appears to have zero cracks anywhere. I say, appears because I haven't been able to fully inspect the wing yet due to it being tucked away in my garage. If I see signs of parts that are suspicious they will be taken care of correctly.

The miss in QA and process control was a seriously huge miss here. The truth is, the original LCPs that were designed and tested are good. But how a 3rd party was able to change the process and it went unnoticed is a huge miss. The result of the bad LCP is very obvious when wrong. But on the flip side of this, the main draw to Experimental is the ability for the builder to not be constrained by certification of everything. You can find a part on the shelf that works and you think it will work, use it. That flexibility has a real double edge to it. In the certified world, there would have been mandated part traceability for this issue. Being a Kit Plane, that isn't mandated, so it didn't happen at all. Just hope our wings are good to go.