The Intprepids should be used as super carriers, given the unlimited capacity of their shuttle bays.

_"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions"_ This is especially true for Starfleet with the lack of a single majority species and it's constant self-denialism of being a military.

“Have galaxy wings 9-1 and 9-3 engage those destroyers. all other ships head for that opening, anyone that gets through doesn’t stop until they reach Deep Space 9”

My take on federation doctrine is centered around the idea of carrier groups. In one such group you have 1-3 Heavy Cruisers (e.g. Galaxy, Sovereign), 6-8 light cruisers/destroyers (e.g. Cheyenne, New Orleans, tactical Nebula variant), 4-6 science vessels (e.g. AWACS Nebula, Nova, Intrepid), 10-16 escort vessels (e.g. Defiant, Saber, Akira). Usually this fleet would be broken down in smaller balanced tactical units to pursue their own objectives across a designated frontline, but if a grand battle occurs, I would expect the following. The heavy cruisers act primary as command and control vessels for the fleet and in battle they are anchoring the frontline. Ideally they should be treated as a strategic asset and engage the enemy only to force an opening. The light cruisers are the brawling element of the formation, usually fighting in concert with a squadron of escorts. The science vessels act as scouting element and occasionally can bring exotic tactical options to the table. The primary job of the escorts is to protect the heavy cruisers, their second job is to perform strikes at exposed enemy elements. Any remaining Miranda-class vessels in the late 24th century should be relegated to coast guard duty and never see frontline combat ever again.

The Federation always seems to me to pull a Soviet style battle strategy of using older equipment to blunt an enemies assault before mounting a counterattack with newer models purpose built in the Federations massive dockyards that are safely in their central territory with support from older vessels.

Reminds of battle tactics from the battleship era. Frigates and Destroyers are your scouts, flankers, and provide escorts for the bigger ships. Cruisers are used to set up and break open the enemy fleet lines. They also set up the battle for the battlecruisers and battleships that come in at the end. Although this era was known as the battleship era, most of the fleet were cruisers and escorts. For example, of the 151 ships that the Royal Navy had the Battle of Jutland in 1916, there were only 27 battleships and 9 battlecruisers. Of the 99 ships that the German Navy had at this same battle, there were only 15 battleships and 5 battlecruisers.

The Fleet Doctrines of all these Star Trek factions are quite varied, I ponder which the relative best is the most strategic situations? Also with the Big 4 Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers done; I wonder between the Dominion, Borg, Breen, Tholians, and various secondary & tertiary minor powers; which, if any, may be done next? Overall, these have all be rather splendid in-depth analyses.

Holy crap, never been this early.

Imagine if starfleet concentrated on warships the whole time

Ahh!! Ahhh!!!! Sweet!!!!!! It’s Time Boys & Girls!!!

Federation or more correctly Starfleet is a more balanced fleet, adapting to any situation as it comes. Starfleet prides itself on the excellence and ingenuity of it's officers and rightly so. Starfleet officers have out-adapted the Borg on numerous occasions.

There is a complete reorganisation of StarFleet doctrine by the time of the Picard series. The Copy/Paste wing. A hundred nearly identical ships…

Considering the strong meritocracy and intense training and selection of officers, my guess is that they are relatively decentralized, allowing for a lot of initiative taking and improvisition by lower officers and individual ships. This makes them more flexible, adaptive and opportunistic. A lot like the focus on non-commisioned officers of NATO doctrine as opposed to rigid Soviet doctrine near the end of the cold war.

I noticed in Picard the federation battle group was a fleet one . Riker showed up with a hundred ships

I am amazed that militaristic species such as the Andorians, allowed the dumbing down of Starfleet in the TNG era. I would think that they would have more of a say in Federation government. Maybe if there were more Andorian admirals, Wolf 359, the Cardassian War, and the Zencathy War would have went differently.

Thanks loving the series

You forgot the California Wings, hiding out in the very back-lines, waiting for everything to be over so they can clean up like the janitors of the fleet

Sand box doctrine is much like US Army battle drills. Standard template for various combat scenarios but every unit has their own way of actually doing it.

This is so entertaining! Thank you! You really have done your research and it shows. I love this channel. 😀👍❤

The federation war plan and doctrine is much like the borgs, learn and adapt. Just much slower

Another Extremely Fascinating video

I feel like this also needs a 'Technobabble' based fleet doctrine. "Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow through teh phase emitter and broadcast it through the deflector array and ionize the magnetic couplings to enhance the neutrino pulsar!" Also it needs a crewman sitting at the helm with a card going "BINGO!" whenever these random strings of words work.

When it comes to the 4 years war, I turn to the FasaCorps Tabletop. That's also what bothered me so much about STD, Starfleet doesn't adapt it's military doctrine to ward off the klingons.

🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very well informatively explained and executed in every detail and every way shape and form possibly provided on all subjects involved indeed!,👌.

Admiral Thrawn would have a field day with the Federation and Star Fleet in a war between Star Wars universe and Trekk 's universe. Btw where the Sovereing Class would be stationed in wich wing?

I'm not sure this doctrine of "homogenous" ships and crews up to the wing level would work. If there was a weakness in a ship type, i.e. poor firing arcs in one sector, it is doubled as both will have the same problem. Plus, different tactics by races from different military traditions could have disastrous effects. If the Andorian tradition is to charge ahead with aggressive tactics but the Telleraite is more of a subdued, defensive posture and the commodore or admiral is a Vucan, there will be chaos and a slaughter. A single strategic and tactical doctrine is the only way to ensure cohesion on the battlefield. Even the Klingons fight with a single objective and a single leader. And the fact the federation does not include smaller ships, like fighters, interceptors or bombers is a major weakness many of the other powers can exploit. A single D'deridex had six scout/bomber craft that can soften or distract a target while the capital ships slug it out. The Federation relegates such tactics as an after-thought and I would think this as probably bitten them in the behind more than once. Great series, though. It would be interesting to do compare and contrast of the different doctrines and organizations of the different races versus each other. For instance, the strengths and weaknesses of the Romulans against the Cardassians from strictly doctrinal view.

This artwork is really off the chain.

Excelent presentation! My vision of battlegroup is to put the Tactical Nebula as the command ship, acompanied with 3 assault wings each containing 1 Akira, 2 Steamrunners and 4 Sabers plus additional Defiant escort wing. The Galaxy would command fleet made of 4 battlegroups.

Cheers for referencing Axanar!

Very interesting. I like your breakdown of tactics and formations that we ended up seeing during the Dominion War, but I have some notes: Firstly the homogenous species commanding entire ships was a thing of the past. That would be early TOS. Even with the USS Intrepid in TOS with a full free of Vulcans, this seemed to be a rare and fading tradition that was probably how Starfleet first operated in Archer's time. By TOS, crews would have been mixed, doctrine would have been codified, but the decision for races to participate in Starfleet would be more off camera. Practically behind the scenes it was for makeup expenses, but realistically, as we are getting better at showing on screen, it is more diverse with more member worlds. But, some member worlds may be more "on paper only" and there's a certain truth to Klingon soon-to-be Chancellor Azetbur's statement that "The Federation was little more than a Homosapiens only club" accounting that more human chose to serve in Starfleet than in comparison to other worlds. Starfleet in many ways drove police for the Federation and she was correct by many accounts.

I Always liked to think that by the 24th century starfleet Crews were Very mixed across the board. Obviously because of IRL Makeup effects costs we don't see that so much. But I feel it fits better with the idea of Star trek and the federation. 23rd Century having more segregated crew does make sense though. It's a point from Axanar that I quite liked. Starfleet embracing the diversity of their member species for everything it's worth is exactly what I'd imagine they'd do. Other than that I always considered Intrepid class ships to be Light Cruisers. With the Akira being Medium, Nebula the Heavy, and Galaxy the Battleship. At least, That's how I imagine starfleet planned things. The Borg Scare happened. Then again, It might make sense for a new Advanced Light cruiser to head up their Frigate wings and give them some extra punch. Having the smaller elements of a fleet be the same class of ship is also sensible. The last thing you want is the advantages of one class brought low by the disadvantages of another.

One thing I always wanted to know, why are all Starfleet ships human designs? The Federation has many civilizations that have built powerful vessels, this includes the Vulcans and Andorians. But in just about every Star Trek show I always see ships that were designed and built by humans. Unless some of their ships were not designed by humans.

ok general rule of thumb when it comes to fed ships 0m to 100m fighter size 100m to 200m super fighter / frigate size 200m to 300m destroyer size 300m to 400m light cruiser size 400m to 500m heavy cruiser size 500m to 600m battle cruiser size 600m to 1,000m light medium heavy super battle ship size 1000m plus dreadnought size

I subbed off the art like four words in.

*A serious problem in planning against Federation doctrine is that the Starfleet Officers do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.*

5:05 What class of ship is the one top left, left of the Akira? The one with the torpedo launcher under the hull. I don't remember that one!!

Starfleet tactics are like British WW2 Naval Tactics. Like Use of Older Warships partner with a newer build Warship and Use of Aircraft carriers.

The Federation fleet reminds me of the Royal Navy back in the 1900s.

To pull from EvE Online lore, the Gallente Federation. "our strength is our plurality"

Federation Doctrine: OMEGA SHUTS DOWN YOUR SHIP REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION

The Nova class is designed to operate inside of an atmosphere why in the world didn't they use that thing during the Dominion War sweat sack ground troops with

where do star bases fit in the general sceem of things.

Dont forget the obsolete ships the federation threw into the Dominion Wars, the Northampton and Chandley class Frigates, Saladin class Destroyers, Constitution class Cruisers and Federation class Dreadnoughts

Where does the "Fleet Captain" rank for into this?

Try crew v crew rivalry! But collaborative with individual captains following instinct.

lol This is the earliest I've ever been.

The Galaxy Wings were literally the Hammer smashing their way through. Who would figure the Galaxy Class an exploration ship basically became a dreadnought making an absolute mess of its anything way. Surprisingly nimble as well for such a bulky ship. I wonder if a Galaxy X could have its saucer section fitted as a troop lander leaving the Battle section in orbit

@ 2:48 Same registry number on 2 ships? Mirror universe encounter? Dimensional phase separation, mayhaps? 😁

can you point to a single case of this wingman/squadron approach appearing in Trek media?

also Federation use A high Rank Captain like Capt Kirk, Capt Sulu, Capt Sisko, Capt Picard. with a Flagship (USS Enterprise D)

50 Mirandas are used to Shield the Galaxy classes while all the other ships are there to blow up until the hero ship gets there.

Wonder how a galaxy wing would work if they were replaced by sovereigns or how a fleet would be made with them as the capital ships

Ha e you seen Lore reloaded video on how the Vulcans may be holding the Federation back on purpose?

Diversity of thought is as important as diversity of " Species"; otherwise it's just an "Echo Chamber.

It seems very unlikely that enough Ambassadors even exist to travel in pairs. The Dominion Wars seems to suggest they use the few good ships they have as the backstop & throw crews lives away on a whim with the Mirandas etc.. If however you were writing it now though a totally different approach seems likely.. heck the Videogames might even have some suggestion for fleet structures to copy. In TV show terms though I think the best Starfleet can do usually is something very old and if they are lucky a nebula class or two. I think that said the Show perhaps makes more sense that the post Battle of sector Zero Zero One doctrine does. If I was entirely making it up i'd discount the weird sub-classes of Excelsior most of the time. I'd not use Intrepid class in combat situations. I don't think Starfleet is really set up for anything other than getting steamrollered, they are just fortunate that their enemies hate each other too & so are easily distracted by each other.

I don't like that in DS9 it's explicitly stated there's only one all Vulcan ship in Starfleet because just by virtue of environmental settings most ships should be species homogenous and ships like the Enterprise should be the exception due to their sheer size and status as things like being rhe flagship.

Hey it would be awesome to see a Galaxy class crap out a Defiant.

HOnestly there isn't really a "fleet doctrine" for the Federation. At least with the Klingons and Romulans we can see a general type of doctrine or strategy, at it;s most basic durign the Romulan-Earth War the Romulans had cloaks so used likely ambushes or hit and run tactics, TOS era they kept little contact with others and at first attempted to use the T'liss and it's cloak as a weapon of fear I assume as a way to avoid war if possible, then later adopted the Klingon D7 at least to bolster their fleet with more basic combat focused ships, if they had other types like the Thrai we didn't see them. By the TNG ears the Roms clearly adapted doctrine that going with on screen ships they switched from small light attack ships to fielding the very powerful D'deridex and still keeping their full might secret, however they tried to avoid war all together and tried using subterfuge and sabotage if possible to weaken their enemies such as the Klingon Civil War hoping to destroy the Fed-Klingon Alliance. Then if we go by STO they clearly after the Dominion War began more diversifying their fleet with the Mogai Warbird, remakign a modern version of the T'varo as a light fast attacker liek a Klingon Bird Of Prey and began producing Scimitars as massive dreadnoughts. THe Klingons often just kept a rather simple but more complex fleet then the Romulans, simply put some kind of Battle Cruiser liek the D7/K'tinga or the Vor'cha to do the heavy fighting and just upgrading as other powers kept makign bigger and bigger ships, each new ship becomign for a time the flagship of the fleet then relegated to just another type of ship in the fleet. Otherwise they maintain the Bird Of Prey as a small fast attacker, often attacking in packs and using their cloaks for hit and run tactics, easily a great posting for younger battle eager officers while veterans may often get assighned to command bigger ships a they're not as eager for battle havign had enough of it, or find commanding the effort is enough glory. THe Klingons stagnated at first bwteen the TOS movies and TNG but witht he Galaxy CLass and D'deridex CLasses saw they needed to upgrade and began and arms race ith friends and allies. Starfleet on the other hand has really no doctrine, they have no stnadardized ships, some classes may be produced more often but for the most and some certain classes may ba assighned certain roles in the fleet like whatever the current ENterprise is is the class out there doing the most important contacts, leading battles, and exploring, while the California class does more mndane things like repairs, logistical support or second contact. Simply put Starfleet when engaged in war just gathers whatever they can for a battle and sends it out, mostly the bigger ships leading the way and smaller ships providing support if they can. But not really much of any kind of doctrine.

...did he end up saying that every wing is "the first into battle"? Also, I don't think they would make up big groups of identical ships. Given how far apart Fed ships operate I would expect any meaningful operational group to be a balanced force of command ship, a couple cruisers and some scouts and escorts.

Apparently you didnt watch voyager. The ship with the superior fire power shall make the battle decisions.

I'm curious: where would the Sovereign class fit in all this? Galaxy wing?

So I enjoyed the episode ( as usual), but I disagree with most of it. I think the essential element you missed is time periods. Surely early in the Federation's timeline there would be exactly what you described in this video, but at the on set of the dominion wars- Star Fleet was more "single minded" in its fleet deployment. Obviously mentioned in the series and in your episodes cruiser wing, galaxy wing, etc. Where as in the TOS, you had ships manned exactly as you described- such as the USS INTREPID - all Vulcan crew ( Constitution Class).

Sovereign Class. I notice you didn't fit them in. I'm assuming you would fit it in with the Galaxy and Nebula Starships. I guess im just curious as to why you wouldn't speak of them in Federation fleet doctrine. I have to say though your material keeps getting better. Would a Sovereign class be the primary command ship of the Federation battle wing? Also thinking wouldn't the Galaxy and the Sovereign wing together vs the Nebula and the Galaxy?Thank you for all the hard work and love you put into Star Trek.

Always love your videos. Perhaps you would consider a controversial topic: the origins of the Enterprise A. The two main theories are that the rechristened Yorktown was built about the same time as the first Enterprise (thus explaining why it was decommissioned after less than 10 years). The second theory is that the Yorktown was a new ship based on the Constitution refit. Not a fan of that theory just because the ship had a stupid short service life and just doesn't make sense. What say you sir?

I've never seen 2 ships on any of them 5 year missions,

4 dominion war refit Galaxy's and 4 dominion war refit Nebula's. That is how you say "f%%k about and find out" in Federation.

Hmm, why are TOS style Miranda-class ships showing up so much alongside newer ships, in the art...?

Hear me out... galaxy class refit to carry multiple defiant class vessels in the saucer. The galaxy class pimphand subclass

I have to disagree about one thing right around 2:55. You will always have one person who is in command, chain of command. All lawful orders by that senior commander are to be followed. What a good commander will do is request and accept input from those under their command. Once the commander makes the final decision and it is to followed. On a related note, a good commander would have trained their command to the pointl that the commander can be confident that they can take the initiative and operate independently. No commander has the time to micromanage. That is beaten in to cadets in military academies. Train your command to the point that you need only tell them what you want done and let them accomplish their mission as they see fit. With regards to initiative, in the US Army, a component of a formal order (most orders you actually hear are frag (i.e. fragmented) orders) is the "Commander's Intent". It states what the commander wants to do and why. This allows those that recieve the orders, down to the lowest private, to support the commander's plan even if they can no longer accomplish the specific order. For example, if a patrol is ordeed to occupy a hill and observe the approach of an enemy, but they cannot occupy that hill, the unit can occupy another hill or anotehr location in general to observe and report on the enemy approach.

Although they would be awesome for a Vulcan hello

I noticed that on the right side the panel number was 24 in reverse mirror image. To the normal left side.

I going to have to disagree with the assessment of the Federation Fleet. The organization in this video more relates to the TOS/TMP eras with groupings of ships by their class: destroyer, cruiser, etc. It's best to remember the starfleet is a jack of all trades, but their not a master of anything. Akulas and Mirandas are primarily patrol ships however are multi-functional i.e. science, recon, combat and escort. Whereas the Connie and Excelsiors have a much higher range than their counterparts. Another point to make is that most SF groups are centered on a planet or Starbase. To use a doctrine that would make sense SF would use a layered or proportional response. When the Dominion invades they concentrate forces around the breach. Fleets would take time to mobilize as ships have to be called in from patrols and other duties. This is understandable as these are standalone ships that can be out for years. This is shown in TNG, DS9 and VOY. Lets look at VOY 'Ship in a Bottle', the Prometheus is chased by a lone Nebula (probably was the closet to intercept), when that failed an Akira and two Defiants catchup to the Prometheus. Lets use the later as a building block: One cruiser and two escorts form a group, battlegroup, taskforce whatever tickles your fancy. Multiple groups would form a wing and multiple wings would form a fleet - this is only from what goes on during the dominon war. It is still a hodgepodge of ships but ships that would compliment one another in combat.

Am I the only one who hates single nacelle designs like the freedom?

why are all ship classes named in the video o have human names dosen't the federation have somev non human ship classes in it.

I have to disagree with your segregation of ships crews when building the fleets.

This must have been a tough video. I wouldn’t even know where to begin…👍

I understand this is your head canon but I don't think star fleet had that many ships in their numbered fleets at least it didn't seem that way on DS9 Plus I don't think they had that many fleet admirals From what I've read there's only bout 6 or 7 of them CinC Chief of Staff Chief of SF Op Dir of SF Corp of Eng Insp Gen and maybe a couple of theatre comm ie fleet comm Vice admirals were probably commanding the numbered fleets and the 4 stars commanding the fleet n task grouping

I guess the Federation had no doctrine just until shortly before the end of the Dominion war... and after that, they scrapped it all because the war was over^^

I would have thought the battle group came before the wing .

Rear Admiral not Vice Admiral you Paclet! :P

Given that writers have essentially made stuff up from episode to episode throughout TOS, TNG and first half of DS9, I find it amusing when people try to shorthorn things into some sort of overarching “doctrine”.

Why should StarFleet produce Galaxy ships during war? There wont be families, and so most of the space will remain empty. So a waste of resources.

Two Romulan intelligence officers down-voted this presentation.

Diversity always works well in science fiction. But it always seems to be poorly-executed in real life to the detriment of everyone (except a very few who somehow manage to profit off of it). Note that I'm not saying that diversity, in and of itself is bad. I'm saying it's current implementation (forced over natural) is bad.