That scene said something to me about daemon as well ngl

A king who lives his whole life feeling untested is a king who has already passed every test.

He is weak, but at the same time, he is the strongest WHEN he is at his weakest. The damage has been done, the family enmity has gone beyond Alicent-Rhaenyra, and has bled into the future generations who he spent no time with, the hate between the blacks and greens is not going anywhere, he didn't do anything to repair the damage when it was NEEDED, but that moment was definitely his strongest as he defends the honor of his daughter, but at the same time, it is sad too, because we know it is nothing more than just a drowning man's attempt to grab at a straw when he knows it's not gonna save him. He's wondering what would have happened if he was truly tested, without even realizing that through the growing hate between his family, he WAS being tested and was ignorant to it, proving that he failed the test, and the Targaryen dynasty as his long term actions (or lack therof) lead to the dying of the dragons.

@@MrBazBake That's ignoring the fact that he's the king who came after Jaehaerys I. Viserys I was largely untested because the realm was largely stable because of the hard work of his grandfather. That's like when idiots laud Trump for improving the economy, when the changes were first set in motion during Obama's time in office. Viserys rid on the coattails of his grandfather Jaehaerys. You'd have a different opinion if he was not Paddy Considine in the show and if show Viserys was characterized instead as a lazy drunkard as in the book. The character and his motivations may be different, but he is still worthless as a king

That last throne room scene was too little too late. He could have quashed every opposition and naysayer from the moment he named Rhaenyra heir all the way to his death but he didn't. No heads rolled until Vaemond when plenty of treason have been suggested over decades. This guy is a weak king and a people pleaser. Being useful for a single time at his deathbed doesn't change the fact that 90% of his life is him being fking useless as a king and father.

Very true .

But then he'd actually have to deal with the fact that his sons and wife hate his daughter and why do that when you can just pretend there's no problem until you die and it inevitably leads to a civil war lul.

in my opinion Viserys was a horrible father overall....he might have loved Rhaenyra but betrayed her with marrying her best friend and then killing also her mother and so on...he also had trouble with connecting with her...they hardly had any relationship , so now we have Aegon who is psychopath cause he felt unloved and uncared for and on the other hand we have Rhaenyra who just doesnt know how to rule cause she was never taught how to do that , Viserys should have kept Daemon and Rhaenyra as close as possible while also loving his other children...Aegon and Aemond clearly feel betrayed by him and thats why they turned out to be monsters

@@HK-gm8pei think he was a good father to her and was manipulated by grandmaester and otto hightower into betraying her. Same grandmaester is responsible for his sickness

she was a kid! And you think she could manage such a position? With zero experience???

That scene still makes me choke up, the first time I watched it, I was bawling like a baby

Fuk that.

I only felt pity in knowing how utterly he screwed his family, tbh

​@@stephenjenkins7971 Well if he was harsher there would be no show, cause they'd all be dead or in jail.

Yet, Rhaenyra's sons agitated Aemond (Twice) with a pig after Viserys left, knowing they've blinded him for life; leaving such a scar to be shown to all. Daemon molesting Rhaenyra and taking her chasity because of his anger towards his brother is something else. Yet, I know it's based on fiction, that's based on real events within royal families from the past. It's still sickening.

Imagine if Rhaenyra had died before Viserys and now it was Daemon as presumed heir - random distant Targaryen cousins would have been coming out of the woodwork to try their luck at the throne, descendants of ruling houses from before the conquest, a free for all! That would likely have been just as bad.

They might as well do that, since they have the modern mentality of oversexualized assholes

Notably Viserys *himself* became king because of this exact issue. His grandparents King Jaehaerys I. and Queen Alysanne had thirteen children, and yet he had to call a council to decide on an heir because all his sons predeceased him. Visery's first wife Aemma also went through multiple pregnancies, and all children except Rhaenyra either were stillborn or died shortly after their birth. Rhaenyra being a woman makes this even riskier, because as heir to the throne she is required to have children, and childbirth was notoriously dangerous. There was a good chance that she could die young due to pregnancy complications, and that the child produced may not live either. There is a real life precedent on why relying on a single female heir can backfire: Princess Charlotte of Wales, only child of King George IV of England and heir presumptive to the English crown after him, died after giving birth to a stillborn son at only 21 years of age, leaving her unmarried uncles to scramble to produce a new heir - thats how the English got Queen Victoria!

Having TOO many successors results in a succession war, having not enough successors means your dynasty might not live to see the next generation. It’s a hard line to walk.

@@danb9460 I’m not saying to have 20 successors, but don’t rely on one or two either.

Yes

Yeah this and also him saying Viserys should marry his daughter, two giant no-no's with the faith. The show doesn't begin to demonstrate the tension between the starry sept and the iron throne. Viserys was only lifetime removed from a civil war with the poor fellows and warriors sons

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy Also even for the Dragonlords, a parent-child relationship is never mentioned as a viable option, only sibling-sibling or avuncular (child to the sibling of a parent, Daenerys with Jon, Rhaenerya with Daemon, et cetra). The only Targaryen known to have *potentially* slept with a child is Aegon IV, and he was considered just a flat out monstrous degenerate.

And ironically enough, a civil war is what happened later anyway.

The thing is Daemon was more than capable enough taking care of such things.

Think the issue is that Otto would of done his damn best to whisper into viserys ears about how thats a bad idea and how Rhaenyra will have an accident while there.

Or perhaps, Viserys could've listened to the one advisor who wasn't being a sycophant or power hungry, Lionel Strong, and swallow his pride to marry Laena Velaryon. Sure, it would've been uncomfortable, but no one would've objected or protested outright. That way you don't marry your daughter's childhood friend, undermining all trust and confidence in both those relationships for years. That moment in episode 2, where he announced his marriage to Alicent, on top of not recognizing Rhaenyra's potential and initiative as a leader and problem solver when she recovered the egg from Daemon, sealed their fate as Rhaenyra would begin to act more on impulse and resentment as the years went on, squandering the budding potential she had when she was younger. Also, why would the Velaryons accept a wardship when they were denied a marriage in the beginning? Lord Corlys left with Daemon to the Stepstones in the first place, because turning down the marriage proposal with Laena was the last straw on top of Viserys not acting against the Triarchy.

@@nate742 YES! Lyonel was a truly loyal servant dedicated to serving the Iron Throne and protecting the realm. Lyonel won my girlfriend over with his impartial counsel and his son Harwin did so in just a few scenes (Harwin Smash and Harwin/Laenor working together to be good dads). When they left for Harrenhal, she was like, "Oh, Rhaenyra's gonna try and get to Harrenhal for her baby-daddy, right?" and I had to bite my tongue and not remind her his was a Game of Thrones prequel.

She should of been sent to the Starks 😂

The best way to prevent this is the biggest sacrifice that anyone would think. Viserys had to abdicate the throne in favor of his daughter at the moment when his health began to fail. Stop being the King to dedicate all his time to what really moved him, being a good father. But on how to run the House of the Dragon, his main mistake in fact, is one that Ned Stark in the original saga did understand. "Cohesiveness" and objective. He has many children, but even so, he lacked goals or ideals for them, beyond being "sons of the dragon". As an example, Ned Stark always mentions how each of his children has a role in the family. Robb is the heir, Bran would be a steward with a Tower or stronghold in the North, Arya and Sansa would strengthen Robb's position and, even Jon, was saw as a future champion for his brother. Here Viserys let his sons have a lot of free time. Me being Viserys in his position. The moment Rhaenyra began to have heirs, I make her the king's hand (I would abdicate when she fell ill), and I would manage my children better. Since he was little, I would have pushed myself to make Aegon a warrior, a knight, perhaps send him to a loyal house as a ward so that he develops that devotion to honor (Stark or Arryn would have worked). Aemond as the second male, would have educated him, he is intelligent, somewhat proud, but a good education would have helped him maintain a good position on the council. But yes, I would have married them to medium or small houses. Celtigars, Umbers, Waynwood, it doesn't matter. A small house to reduce the temptation to rebellion. In this way, I would be alive for the first years of Rhaenyra's reign, I would see my children with a bright future and they would not be idle in the capital. I would even encourage Aegon, if he is born with ambition, to conquer Pentos or whatever xD

He was a horrible father. He neglected his 4 other kids. He didn't even care when Aemond lost his eye. He spoilt Rhaenyra

@@theelectricprince8231 none of them were supposed to be heir. Besides, Alicent ended up raising a bunch of little sociopaths, what was Viserys supposed to do, shame Aegon even more for being a depraved little shit? Maybe tell Aemond that he shouldn’t want to kill his nephew for taking his eye? Yeah, I’m sure that would work. Aemond probably could’ve been kept from turning our horrible, he at least has some good things going for him, but Aegon was beyond saving, with nothing to apply any positive reinforcement to.

@@Slender_Man_186 Maybe they could have used a father. He was a bad one. Rhaenyra was spoiled and the rest were ignored.

@@Slender_Man_186 You are insane. The whole reason why they were so messed up is because of Viserys. He proved that he either hated them or didn't care about them. He didn't even discipline Lucy when he cut out Aemond's eye or even speak out against Rhaenyra saying torture Aemond for speaking out the obvious fact that everyone there knows is true. The only reason Aegon was how he was, was because he was crying out to get his father's attention. This is all 100% on Viserys.

@@Slender_Man_186 Alicent was a young teen when she had Aegon 2, and Viserys was a terrible father to his kids with Alicent. Aegon 2 needed a father figure, didn't have one. Aemond was better off since Alicent had him as a 3rd kid and was more mature. Helaena.. well, she's "simple-minded" so that's nothing any parent can really change. (And Daeron in the books is supposedly a chill kid but, he's not in the show so) And so what if they're not all the heirs? That means he can just not give a crap about the rest of his kids? Why'd he bother have them at all honestly, he pampers his adult daughter more than his little kids. Aemond lost his eye and he basically didn't care about it. Aegon 2 knew his father didn't care for him, as did Aemond. How you can support Viserys as a father whatsoever, he enables Rhaenyra in her bad decisions as well.

THIS.

We do see the youngest generation of Targaryens receiving lessons on things from combat to politics. Children of a royal family were not just left to their own devices to stand around and look pretty. They are well educated, and prepared for their possible position, in case something happens. Rhaenyra had to have been educated like any royal family member would be when she was younger, even if she didn't have things like a council seat (it could have been in the period before the series, or in the many years between some episodes). The show more indicates that she was rebellious about her lessons, that she knew her duties and necessary sacrifices, but resented them. Despite being told repeatedly to make a good impression with the suitors, Rhaenyra makes the choice to not do so, and possibly sows more discourse as a result. A father can teach, but it is up to the children when/if the lesson takes root.

That's COMPLETELY WRONG entirely that any of that makes him a "bad king" at all from THAT single shortcoming at all as the video said and proves he was a GOOD king from not having any war and keeping Damond in check as a brother while fighting off a disease that was eating away at his body. Viserys WAS a good king despite all the things he had to deal with and Rhaenyra not acting in a "Royal manner" was ALL on HER for not doing so as she was SENT to meet with suitors but she didn't care for any of them. Rhaenyra needs to take responsibilities of her own actions, not have her father do everything for her. Which you're not getting here.

​​@@Gadget-Walkmen Had Viserys only married Rhaenyra to Daemon sooner this wouldn't have happened. Viserys really doesn't care all that much about what her daughter felt at that time. Clearly those suitors were no match for her. The one she had eyes for, Viserys didn't make him an option because he didn't annull his brother's marriage. He married his brother to the heir to Vale coz of Otto's advice, a woman he doesn't like and rumoured to be barren. Otto kept sabotaging Daemon which caused the rift between the two brothers and then he went on to sabotage Rhaenyra. Yet Viserys still kept listening to that snake. He tried being good to all but essentially failed at it miserably, because he really didn't care to understand them.

@@happilyevernever4289 Lol Just no, he didn’t marry Rhaenyra to Daemon because it’s sick and disgusting to being marrying uncle and niece like that. It’s bafffingly sad how you people don’t see the problematic incest with these characters and don’t see how it’s not instantly a problem. Viserys DID care about his daughter thoughts and feelings entirely so, but he was NOT putting her anywhere near Daemon because Daemon is a vicious terrible mess of a person who loves to start trouble JUST for the sake of it, daemon is not suitable for literally anyone for his psychotic nature. No sane person would EVER trust Daemond with anyone. He’s like a likable psychopath but he’s still a violent trouble making psychopath, that should be obvious. Daemon sabotaged himself because he didn’t know how to be reasonable in the slightest Or responsible, daemond gave Viserys EVERY good reason to not trust his own brother as his own brother can’t handle the most simplest tasks without screwing it up as it’s been stated and SHOWN. It’s just sad that you’re show how trying to blame Viserys for ANY of this as Viserys is the only few people who actually care about doing the right and responsible thing. Viserys listened to Otto because not matter how leecherous Otto ultimately was, he still acted reasonably AND appropriately to every given situation on HOW to act and behave. Unlike Rhaenyra and Daemond who are an absolute mess of two people who don’t know what responsibilities are, they just want absolute freedom at the cost of doing everything else which can AND has proven to be destructive. Viserys understood them perfectly, he understood how terrible people his own brother and how immature his own daughter really were as they NEVER grew up. That should be obvious here, seriously. Viserys didn’t “fAiLed” at all, his family failed him despite all the good that he’s been doing for them.

Damn, that's true😂😂

Otto wasn't the problem. Every lord in Otto's situation would've done the same exact thing, and the war would've still happened as long as Viserys was dumb and still tried to keep Rhaenyra as his heir for no other reason then he felt guilty. Also he knew that Otto was planning to get him to marry Alicent, and he did it anyway, he knew what was going on.

@@AaronGuest True. Otto wasn't some villain from the start. If anything, he took matters into his own hands since his King was a fool.

@@thalmoragent9344 Fact

Yup it doesn't matter if her children were true born. Any ambitious lord would've tried to make their blood king. Viserys truly didn't believe that Otta was ambitious. The only way to have blocked ppl like Otto was to make Daemon hand of the king. To protect and ensure Rhaenyras ascension to queen.

Viserys had a soft-heart, I think that was both his greatest strength and sadly his biggest weakness.

You’re kind. Viserys DIRECTLY caused the Dance

@@Dakotastx Nahhh, Thats fucking Daemon, Rhaeynra and Otto's fault. An arrogant uncaring brother, A spoiled bitchy Daughter and a Scheming fuck.

I disagree the succession problem and the dance of the dragon seeds was planted since jaehearis great council and then viserys stop it from happening from another 37 years.

maegor is a perfect example of this. the followers of the seven have a larger following than anyone would think, which makes sense since it's based off middle-age christianity. maegor would have most likely been pushed out or killed either way, but the rebellion against him was pushed harder by the faith than anyone else.

That's a good point. I'm not sure it's fair to say he chose to murder his wife. His wife and child were either both going to die or one of them had an opportunity to live. I agree he definitely should've let her make the decision. But there was no option where his wive lives (at least according to the maester). I believe he continually got bad advice from the maesters due the Otto and the Hightowers scheming. He was the victim of medical malpractice in my opinion.

I don't know if the suggestion to marry with Rhaenyra was the best one too (or even a good one at all). Despite the fact that with Jaehaerys, the marriage between siblings were more accepted in Westeros, there is no precedent that we know of with the marriage of a father and a daughter. I think that also would generate a war with the faith and make the realm bleed too

Disagree. Meagre just was cruel ultimately and stoked too much fire with no willingness for diplomacy Jaherys literally made the Targyrean exceptionalism concept to legitimise their incest marriages in the eyes of the common man.

@@niccoloparker3548 incest is more more easy for the faith to rationalize since cousin marriage already exists in Westeros, but the faith very clearly draws the line for what they allow the Targaryens to get away with at point of polygamy, hence why no king from Jahaerys onward has no more than one wife at a time

Hadrian created long term problems? That doesn't vibe with my understanding of Roman history, I'd peg him as being one of the more forward thinking emperors. Throughout the empire it's rare to see someone consider the state after they are gone beyond "my son(s) will rule". Augustus did it, Diocletian attempted it (with little success), and Hadrian in choosing both the immediate successor but also their successor in turn did it, and that second successor was Marcus Aurelius, who would turn out to be a good choice for handling the beginning of the downward slope for Rome. I'm not sure what cans Hadrian consciously kicked down the road.

@@RmsOceanic Excellent points, it is a classic debate amongst historians, but the way I heard it, there is a faction that insists that when Hadrain pulled out of the territories that Trajan conquered, it seemed like a good idea for about a generation, because those territories were expensive to maintain. But not long after Hadrian died, it became clear those territories had also served as a buffer against invasions, and the wars and difficulties that plague the reign of Marcus Aurelius were arguably the result of Hadrian giving up those buffer areas. It makes sense to me. But I 100% agree that Hadrian choosing not one, but two successors, both of whom also to great rulers was an incredible move. Hadrian might be my pick for the single best emperor actually. But being best is not the same as being perfect, he made mistakes and the pull out was probably one of them.

@@RmsOceanic Also, for the record, the reason Hadrian was able to move beyond "my son will rule" is because he was gay. That's not even speculation, Hadrian had a marriage ceremony and everything with a young man. It was considered very strange at the time, even people in the ancient world who engaged in homosexual sex did not really have marriage ceremonies. Hadrian is arguable the first person we know of to be "gay" in the modern sense. So he had no sons to pass power on too because he had no woman in his life capable of giving him sons. That's why he was in a position to put more thought into who his heirs would be. And he ended up picking 2 amazingly good choices who are still remembered as great almost 2000 years later. But just in case you didn't know: Hadrian was openly gay and had no children that we know of.

I would not Robert as being a conflict avoider lmao, he’s kinda like the opposite of Viserys in that regard, he doesn’t care that much about keeping as many people happy as possible he’s sorta indifferent mostly and he’s certainly not the type to be afraid to exercise his authority unlike Viserys.

@@Dell-ol6hb not conflict avoidant in terms of placation, more in the sense that he himself avoids conflict 💀 his admitting to Ned that he dreams of abandoning it all and running east in pursuit of glory says it all, he wasn’t built for leadership and disregards all pretext of command whenever he can

LOL what? I know you saying "definitely understand women and are fantastic husbands" is sarcasm but except for what he did to his first wife at her final birthing scene which was sick to see but understandable given the situation of the era, Viserys DOES understand women and IS a fantastic husband as he's treated his first wife Emma VERY well and kinda. Robert Baratheon most certainly DOES NOT understand women and only cares to have sex with them and treats them like any other guy and he was a BAD husband unfortunately based on how he treated cersei. The same can NOT be said about Viserys because he ACTUALLY understood women and tried his wife VERY well like any good husband should, except for her final birth scene which as I said, was sick and twisted.

@@Gadget-Walkmen he married his first wife Aemma Arryn when she was eleven (in 93AC) and promptly forced as many children on her as possible in pursuit of a male heir- she is said to have suffered many miscarriages and cradle deaths because of how young she was. Finally he butchers her without even informing her first because he very obviously valued a potential son over her physical and emotional wellbeing. He married a fifteen year old Alicent Hightower next and impregnated her 3/4 times despite her being the same age as his daughter, and despite her very clearly not wanting him. Obviously it’s a different world and time period and men were not beholden to the same standards as they are today, but for a franchise which has a primary focus on gender inequality and the brutal silencing of women, he is not nor was he ever a “fantastic husband”. He loved his first wife, but he very clearly utilized her life and death for his own ends. I would go so far as to say that NO men in Westeros truly understand the perspective of the women in their lives, they are just so fundamentally removed

@@Sophie-vq1xw Most of what you said here are completely narrow minded views in perspective of what the series and the people are about in the series AND in real life, seemingly because of sensitivity of the subject. "he married his first wife Aemma Arryn when she was eleven (in 93AC) and promptly forced as many children on her as possible in pursuit of a male heir- she is said to have suffered many miscarriages and cradle deaths because of how young she was." We have NO idea on how old she was when they got married. What happened in the books is NOT what happened in the show as the video explains they are written differently and the characters are vastly much more aged up in the show compared to the books. Yes. the women in this era are treated like cattle but that's the whole point of SHOWING how the inequality of such a medieval era that women were ultimately used to produce more babies, even WHEN they're in the highest position in the world as Queen. "Finally he butchers her without even informing her first because he very obviously valued a potential son over her physical and emotional wellbeing." Someone else already said this perfectly in the comment section so I'm just going to quote him here, "I just don't understand why people act like Viserys killed his wife. They state in plain Jane English that she's dead either way, but the only way to possibly save the baby is through an emergency C-Section. So the choice was either give Aemma a slow, painful death that will guarantee both the baby dies with his wife, or a quicker, painful death that has a chance to save the baby. There is literally no logical reason to choose the first option. The next argument is always "well he should have told her first" and I guess? But she's inebriated to hell and back on basically heroine (milk of the poppy) so by any standard of consent, she can't give it. Telling her what's about to happen is a surefire way to get her to start panicking before she can be properly restrained, further risking the procedure and therefore the baby. And some kind of decision needs to be made as soon as possible to minimize risk. In the cold brutal calculus of the scene, Viserys made literally the only choice that might have salvaged anything from the situation, and I can't help but feel people's empathy for Aemma gets in the way of that reality. She was dead. There was no hope for her. He did not sentence her to death because she was already dead. If the procedure wasn't shown in such gruesome, gut wrenching detail, I feel like more people would be sympathetic to his choice. It's an effective scene in that regard but people come to the wrong conclusions over it." Yes it was BRUTAL thing to do in that era regradless but it was the only thing TO DO to get anything out of it. "He married a fifteen year old Alicent Hightower next and impregnated her 3/4 times despite her being the same age as his daughter, and despite her very clearly not wanting him." He married her because he HAD to marry someone and she presenting herself as a suitor. That's something of a VERY common norm. We have no idea if he "forced her" to have sex with him at all. You say "despite her very clearly not wanting him" because we the audience SAW her face as she was upset with the situation but that was it. As far as we can tell, She owned up to the situation and had kids because she was She reluctantly had sex with him obviously as we saw but Viserys didn't see or know that as we saw. You're taking that out of context. Viserys having sex with his wives to produce more children is expected out of him and EVERYONE of that time and era. He's not doing anything that he's doing out of selfish purposes. He's doing these things out of obligation to the crown he serves which ALL men and women are expected to do. "Obviously it’s a different world and time period and men were not beholden to the same standards as they are today" You say this but there are several times you show that you don't understand this at all based on what you're saying as it seems you're just taking offense of the situation REGRADLESS of the era. All you're doing is projecting 21th century morals to a medieval time period where kids were made to wed each other as soon as they were 12 to 13 years old and seen as adults and even go off to war even at that same age. What you're saying doesn't make any sense as Alicent was of age to have kids at teenage (We don't know how old she was nor was it said she was 15 in the show at all) because she was seen as a women during that time. Even a century ago teenagers were considered adults, times change perspective ALL the time. You're not seeing the big picture of this at all. "He loved his first wife, but he very clearly utilized her life and death for his own ends." That's not true at all as he didn't "utilized her life and death for his own ends" as he was had to make use of what he had based on what was expected of him. Yes, it was a sick and twisted thing to do, but he didn't have much of any other choice because she was already dead. He WAS a good enough fantastic husband based on what on the time of the era (before the accident as far as we can tell on how Aemma and Viserys cared for each other) as he AND his wife were expected to have children and especially sons as it was their duty to do so, not out of some callous ambition. He's not forcing his wife to have kids because he's trying to be cruel, he's doing so because it's expected out of HIM and every other men in that era TO produce more heirs. That's JUST the way how the world works and Viserys is doing the best he could given the situation. Even Aegon was forced to be king despite him not wanting to be so as everyone had their roles to play. Everyone has aa role to play in order to keep things going during a medieval era Simple as that but you're not getting this and you're saying REALLY nonsensical statements here about the men in westeros here. I would go so far as to say that NO men in Westeros truly understand the perspective of the women in their lives, they are just so fundamentally removed That's so wrong as it's unbelievable for you to even say as there are men who are most certainly NOT "fundamentally removed" at all. You say that "no men" in westeros doesn't understand the "perspective of the women in their lives" is just plain wrong as there's been several men who DO understand the position of women as to NOT abuse or forceful against any of them like Ned Stark, Rob Stark, Jon Snow, Samwise Tarly, and even Tyrion Lannister. You're JUST being over sensitive about the subject and badly upset over past era stuff that was JUST done for it's time. JUST like in real life because for you to say that "no men in westeros doesn't understand the perspective of women" is just plain nonsensical to say and just wrong. Seriously, WHAT is that you're even saying right now because that's so obviously wrong it's painful to see someone even say.

Well, many of her supporters, particularly Daemon, all would've pushed her to fight, like how most of Alicent's Council also pushed to take action sooner than later Viserys was an inept King and let the 2 Factions grow apart and fester till he died.

Even if she didn't, the likes of Daemon 100% would start a war to obtain power. And we all know that she can't control him.

@@stephenjenkins7971 Daemon on his own really isn't much of a threat though. He'd still have the Hightowers and the Greens, with the absence of Rhaenyra and her Dragons, the Vale, the Riverlands, and the North. Daemon couldn't even take out Vaghar without dying in the process. His war would have probably been just a prolonged siege on Dragonstone.

@@amelancholybear1534 Kinda missing the point. Edit: Plus the point isn't to cause damage; it's to kill off the Greens. Maybe to do so in a wedding or something. Assassination or straight up murder is on the table.

@@thalmoragent9344 outside of Daemon, how many of Rhaenyra's supporters do you imagine would push her to fight if she wasn't the rightful heir? I'd also like to point out that she stood up to Daemon and/or challenged his ideas multiple times this season, even as a child

I've done this too! Even when I disagree, it's the kind of disagreement where I thought more deeply and learned something interesting about my own point of view, so I still feel like it deserves a like.

His health was critical when his kids by Alicent were 18 or more. On the first time jump, with the kids being adolescents he was sane despite he lacking in mobility. I honestly don’t feel like they were not close just because of his sickness. He didn’t make a connection with his children, the scene after Aemond loses his eye shows some that, he only defends the princess even with his other kid severely injured. Aegon was a drunk and Halaena had antisocial behavior. Viserys didn’t seem to care much for them, only for Rhaenyra

@@danielhenrique4466 when Aemond lost his eye Viserys was put into an impossible situation really. Yes he obviously cares about Rhaenyra more (parents IRL do show favorites too), but he's being asked to go along with maiming one of his grandsons because it's fair. No grandfather, let alone King would allow that to happen. Children fight and children do maim each other accidently. Even though in this case it wasn't really an accident. The first big time jump showed him watching them in the courtyard and visibly in bad shape. That's just a glimpse or a moment, but it clearly shows that he cares about both his grandsons and his sons. Keep in mind this is also the portion of the show where the legitimacy of Rhaenyra's children is flaunted around far more openly, by both Alicent, Criston Cole (in the courtyard) and Viserys/Alicents children as we later found out. It was probably at that moment that Viserys figured out what was truly happening and his only real recourse was to stand behind his daughter. He couldn't execute Alicent or punish her, after Alicent lunged towards Rhaenyra. He wasn't going to punish his own sons, let alone his grand children. His only recourse was to stand firm by Rhaenyra being his heir because doing anything else would've sown even more chaos, even though he knew the kids weren't legitimate. It's very true that he favorites Rhaenyra, but it's also fairly likely that the way Alicent raised her kids (regardless of how present Viserys was) was always going to push them into the direction that they already were. Paranoid, uncaring, or weird in the case of the daughter. Rhaenyra is no angel and she was raised by Viserys in his prime. Very few Targaryen's regardless of whether they have a healthy or unhealthy relationship with their parents turn out well. Viserys is an exception, not the rule. Luke and Jace both turned out far better than any of Alicents kids did, and it probably has far more to do with the mother raising them than the father (which is pretty common in history anyway).

The snippets do show he was happy that Rhaes kids were getting along with Alicents, following Aegon in his tessing of Aemond notwithstanding. Heck Helaena is even shown to be comfortable around Jace, something she’s only shown with Aemond. Not even liking Alicent touching her.

B.S. he wasn't always sick, he hated them, even the actors said that Viserys hated them. Viserys was a shid king and a horrible father.

@@AaronGuest Typical Eggmond supporter. Why support eye-patch Legolas when instead you can support goofy dementia zombie.

they are two diffrent chars to be honest

Thats not really difficult when the others are Robert, joff, tommen & cercei

He literally caused a civil war that killed 90% of his family

Viserys already recognized Otto was trying to scheme Aegon onto the throne when he fired him the first time, bringing him back was just about the worst call he could've made. It was at that point after the death of Lyonel Strong that he should've asked Daemon to be Hand of the King, or even had Rhaenyra do it as Baelon had under Jaehaerys. Really there was only one wrong answer, and Viserys picked it

i agree with you. but it was still viserys' mistake not to tell his wife what was happening to her and at least try to give her the choice

Hard agree

@@hypershadow6997 some people don’t give the choice of killing their child, even if their spouse wants to.

@@hypershadow6997 that was happening during the childbirthing and Aemma could have died anytime and the child with her. Sadly, there was no time to give her a choice.

​@@hypershadow6997he was sacrificing the love of his life for the prince that was promised to protect millions of people from the oncoming doom of the white walkers

100% agree, plus what would these same people do in that situation? Knowing their wife was dead either way, would they not attempt to save their child?

Probably skipped biology class

THIS THIS THIS. The scene makes pains to tell us she will not survive this labour. There is no option where she lives, or where Viserys can choose to save her. Of course she’s terrified, who wouldn’t be? That’s the only human reaction to what is happening to her, and it’s heart breaking. But I can’t see any alternative. And even the idea that he should have stopped trying to have children with her…. I just can’t see that being conceivable to either of them in that time, in their position. For him to just stop going to her bed? For her to drink abortifacients after? As king and queen responsible for propagating the royal line? Even Aemma herself has that whole conversation with Rhaenyra where she impresses on her that bearing children is the highest and almost only duty of royal and noble women. On a human level, yeah, it’s awful. But in the social reality of that situation, it was what it was, fair or no.

Right? I thought the exact same thing. There didn't seem to be any way to save the queen. What should he have done differently? Let both, the child and mother die? Asking the mother for her opinion is a strange point. We don't ask patients while they are in severe pain, stress and under the influence for their opinion.

​@@gilgameshkingofheroes5903 exactly... there really was no way to give her a choice or even a warning. A warning would have panicked her just as much and not made it any less painful. The only other option was letting her and the baby die much more slowly, sadly.

Eventually, Ser Criston was known as “The Kingmaker” in the book. Such a meteoric rise, but GRRM doesn’t make him a stereotypical knight.

Cole was a knight from a family of them. Not noble level of noble, but still not lowborn

I think they did, but usually it wasn't the royal heirs doing that, it was the cousins and kin from the time they were living on Dragonstone in the wake of the Doom.

@@lindenshepherd6085 no, in the entire targaryen history no child married their parent

Damn, it really is a war of Second Sons, huh?

Thank you. The other characters are grown adults with their own choices to make and own. Just because Viserys left room for them to engage in shitty behavior does not absolve them of responsibility for their own actions.

I mean, he could've asked for her input on what they should do. Or asked the Maesters if there was some way to save her at the cost of the child's life, as an inverse of what they actually suggested.

Viserys had already ridden Balerion though, until he died, and it's unclear whether a rider even CAN claim another dragon if the first one dies

allowed needs to be in BOLD there. He made some risks and it cost him, but he made them consciously believing that he was making the right choice. I really liked how a lot of people thought they had fooled him when in fact he knew about most of what was happening and was instead playing his own game and got mostly everything he wanted

A few mistakes that only led to a war and the destruction of his house.

@@AN-sm9ju i'm just downgrading the gravity of his fuckups cause of that entrance in ep 8

​@@AN-sm9ju I disagree. The house was already in disarray before. Jaehaerys was considered "the best king" but look closely and you see how much his house was ALREADY a mess and all he did was postpone the fall. Hell, most of his children died before him, some a direct result of his actions. And this is THE BEST King. His daughter's illegitimate children was not his fault which was a big part of what caused the war. Yes, naming his daughter heir was a bold move, but is it really that much of a mistake? He did it cause he believed that she was the best choice, and wasn't he right? Even with her being a woman (a risk he was aware of) and her children (again, not his fault) it still ONLY doesn't work out because of a miscommunication with his wife when he was SICK AND DYING. All the man did was try to put a woman on the throne, and it only failed because of things out of his control, I don't know if i can call that a mistake. Marrying Alicent was a mistake and it was all a plan of the Hightowers, but Jaehaerys was actually the one that named Otto hand of the king in the first place, and Viserys trusted his father's judgement but, as we know, he discovered later on that Otto didn't have his best interests in mind. And it's not like that mistake changes much, does it? He still makes the marriage alliance with the Velaryon, and Alicent was actually a good Queen. When i truly look at it, despite his mistake of marrying for love, and his risky bet of putting a woman on the throne, he did a pretty good job of handling the mess that he was dealt. Again, Jaehaerys was called the best King and yet it was clear that during his reign the Targaryen house was already crumbling. Jaehaerys was able to hold it, Viserys was not, but let's not pretend he caused something that was brewing way before he was born. Sure, he could have done better, but, like this video arguees, when you look at the finer details, Viserys did a fine job with the hand he was dealt

@@Mananpicar Jaehaerys is not Viserys' father, he's his grandfather. And making Rhaenyra heir was fine when he had no other children but then he decided to marry again and have tons of other kids and doubled down on keeping Rhaenyra as heir despite having 3 sons now. This pretty much made it guarenteed that there would be civil war upon his death and yet he did basically nothing for decades to try and prevent it or stop it, causing one of the worst wars in the history of the continent killing countless people, crippling his house and killing all the Targaryen dragons, you know I don't know man that seems like an enormous failure to me. And you're right that this started with Jaehaerys ultimately since he was the one who set the precedent on female succession but Viserys was absolutely not dealt a bad hand at all, his bad choices were what made most of the issues of his reign.

But also in the short sight: if he had no male heir, there would be another situation similar to Jaehaerys' succession. The first thing a king must provide is an heir who could move forward the dynasty and strenghten the security of the rule. And if he had taken another wife alongside Aemma, he'd probably caused another rebellion of the Faith, since polygamy wasn't an option (something that even Rhaegar should have known when, as many think, he intended to have both Elia and Lyanna as wives). Probably the best thing Viserys should have done on this matter was cast aside Aemma and take another wife _before conceiving Baelon_ after many miscarriages. But the couple genuinely loved each other, and how House Arryn would have react to the member of their family who became Queen being discarded? Viserys had many burdens on his shoulders.

Yeah he literally cut off the tongues of a bunch of people who challenged Rhaenyra and the legitimacy of her children. He was NOT as weak and ineffective as the fanbase paints him as, and he did quite a lot to solidify her rule, as all the lords in the realm were already sworn for her. The majority of the realm still fought for her in the dance even though he apparently did "nothing" according to the fanbase. His only mistakes were marrying Alicent and rehiring Otto as hand instead of Rhaenyra. 2 mistakes in the second most peaceful and prosperous rule of any Westerosi monarch does not make a bad king. For some reason everyone likes to place all the blame for Green's crimes and coup solely on Viserys' feet which is just wrong, especially since the seeds were planted during Jaehaerys' rule. Robert gets less flack for causing the WOTFK yet he was much worse in enabling and rewarding Lannister's bullshit. There's some really weird anti Viserys bias. He is by all measures a MUCH better king than Robert but gets shit on 1000x more and treated much worse. I honestly question if people are following the same series as I am sometimes.

Yeah definitely the best character in the show thus far.

Don't forget though, Daemon was his heir originally, so keeping that the case with Rhaenyra as the backup was always the plan until Otto got involved to wreck it for his own ambitions. Even then, making Daemon the backup would make further heir-siring from Viserys himself unnecessary since Daemon can easily have his own line should he need to become King. Even if you want to ignore that though, there can't be any ignoring Otto's role in trying to manipulate Viserys into marrying Alicent, something that should've seen him dismissed, and then him trying to undermine Rhaenyra as heir, something that should've seen him beheaded, or at least with his tongue pulled out.

Rhaenrya should have picked someone who looked like her husband