Tuvok is the only really deranged One on Board. The others are ALL just Mentally Unstable... Well, except Naomi Wildman - her Intellegence was weirdly varying for some reason, going up and down, but i still liked her.

Since the time agents are from a point post voyager, it would be reasonable to infer they can tell the temporal anomaly occurred and corrected without intervention. Unlike their inability to determine their own involvement is what triggered the destruction of Earth, causing them to create the event where Voyager was part of the destruction of Earth, the stranding of one of their officers in the past, placing their timeship in the hands of a “viewing audience era” opportunist and subsequently their previously stranded officer’s effort to destroy Voyager preemptively, in another set of episodes. Maybe the time agency should clean its own house before meddling in the past?

To quote Ford Prefect, "Time is an illusion; lunchtime, doubly so."

ah, the HHGTTG

Hey! My sister is a temporal mechanic!

It also helps them if they do not want to look at eh panel. You don't have to be blind to need it.

Still damn impressive that he could use it quite well after spending his entire prior career using a visual interface.

Yeah, but Star Fleet has yet to get rid of those claymore mines known as their various consoles, @@Silverhawk100.

Tuvok is the only really deranged One on Board. The others are ALL just Mentally Unstable... Well, except Naomi Wildman - her Intellegence was weirdly varying for some reason, going up and down, but i still liked her.

With projections of micro-forcefields, you could also give your tactile-interface touch panels a haptic feedback element, which could be useful in partitioning the LCARS display to prevent a wandering finger from slipping off the subspace fine-tuning controls into the Arm Weapons cluster and onto the Fire Torpedo key, resulting in an amiable first-contact hailing frequency chit-chat with the Newalienoftheweekians turning into an all-out Beta Quadrant battle royal.

Depends on their "jurisdiction". We don't know if they were responsible for monitoring time changes across the Alpha Quadrant, the Milky Way or the entire cosmos. We have no indication of what the full scope of their duties are, their technological level, full agent equipment loadout, training curriculum or personal capabilities (I would also argue that they might be genetically engineered in some minor ways, like Bashir for example, maybe for things like immunity against common illnesses or sickness, better eyesight/hearing/smell, etc, increased intelligence, increased strength, speed, endurance, survivability and agility - that would seem to be just some of the basic traits for someone from the future who needs to be able to adapt to any situation- you would of course use any advantage that future technology gives you in able to increase probability of mission success). We merely see glimpses of some temporal tricks that current time period Federation has, and advanced tech tricks or knowledge of how to adapt current tech for specific purposes that temporal agents have across multiple Trek series. We see current Federation ships, for example, able to create temporal shielding, but no ships doing any kind of time travel like Kirk did, either in preventing disasters or for temporal experiments?

One of the Biggest Plot Holes is the Fluid Space - they know how to go there and come back. Any idea how many options that gives them?! From the second they learned this, they could have never been trapped again, and even in fights, they can just leave! They could arguably have done this even BEFORE making Peace with 8472, but without argue AFTERWARDS!! They also didnt even tried to tell 8472 to continue hunting the Borg, which is also a HUGE Thing, aint it? But the ability to enter and leave the Fluid Space alone is a Plot Hole.

It wasn't my understanding that they were Federation specific Time agents. And dealing with time, they wouldn't have just limited themselves to the alpha and beta quadrants which is officially where the Federation overlaps I think or at least it's where the well-known sections we view of Star Trek exist

That's.... A good question

And it failed because Janeway was a dumbass

Well, he tried to put his foot into too many asses and I guess karma caught up

@@munkykng416 Probably why the time agents stayed away. They found out he wasn't kidding and they're a bunch of weedy nerds who couldn't escape a good ass kickin'!

"you screwed up the timeline you dumbass!"

Wasn't he also the President of the Federation?

It does apply to interference in another government's internal affairs, as shown with the Klingon Civil War in the Next Generation.

Yes, I think Memory Alpha also says that, but I think that is an example of plot necessity. 🤷‍♂️

I think also given Voyager's unique circumstances, they sometimes pretty much ignored it or stretched it a little because, where is starfleet?

@@dumaskhanThe Prime Directive has been flat out ignored or "accidently" broken in multiple instances, like with Garth of Izar's actions, Kirk giving weapons to a primitive race, Kirk destroying a computer that oversaw a race, .. Dmit, Kirky, you had one job to do (Prime Directive)… :P

I would say the 'prime directive' as it relates to interfering in another government's internal affairs is based on a different set of rules than that of the 'prime directive' in relation to pre-warp civilisations. But overall I find the implications of the early TNG episode 'angel one' to be the most fascinating, and also the most problematic. Because they imply the 'Prime Directive' is a STARFLEET regulation, NOT a Federation law... Given that the planet in question is definitely pre-warp (technological, but comparable to current day Earth, not a warp capable civilisation), the fact that even in a context like this, Federation civilians can apparently 'ignore' the prime directive (as the freighter captain pointed out to Riker) is... Interesting, to say the least...

Further evidence: First Contact, the Mk I EMH made a cameo. The EMH was one of the brand new technologies that Voyager was supposed to be field testing, so the Enterprise wouldn’t have gotten one until after Voyager was dragged to the delta quadrant.

He's a doctor not a doorstop!

Star Fleet and the United Earth, possibly later the upper echelon of the Federation, knew about the Borg over 200 years before the official first contact with them. They also learned more about them from Guinan's people. So people did know about them, but it took Q interfering to bring about much wider knowledge about them to the Alpha Quadrant powers.

@@henrynorcrossii3363 until Q's actions starfleet probably didn't even consider them a real threat to keep their captains briefed on. Their only information on them was reports from survivors from Guinan's people which if someone bothered to look at and cross reference with incidents from before the existence of the federation might've notice the description of the borg matched those of a small group of aliens that stole a ship and transmitted a message to the delta quadrant.

Tuvok is the only really deranged One on Board. The others are ALL just Mentally Unstable... Well, except Naomi Wildman - her Intellegence was weirdly varying for some reason, going up and down, but i still liked her.

Or that they are already a known quantity. No other time traveler interacts with them and thus they are stuck in a loop of creating the time ship, making change after change, until eventually erasing themselves away and starting again. While they are making changes, it's localized to the sector and time period in which they operate.

I agree with you. The Krenims’ temporal changes are only effecting their local space and probably all the changes are “part of history”....

Kes' powers have often looked at the wrong timeline enough times, they've likely just kind of realised that they are only relevant when they haven't changed the timeline--and they have usually already changed the timeline to make it not relevant, that it because a "boy who cries wolf" type reaction.

I would even consider it a fair attempt at paying it off if in the final timeline, when they were warned about the contested space, Janeway said, "oh, the Krenim? We've been warned about them. We'll go around."

I believe the time ships are immune to such weapons, since they police time they need to be able to notice the differences between what is and what should be and the only way they would be able to do that is with temporal shields.

@@frag2k12 And temporal sensors (they've got temporal transporters, so it's plausible they have other temporal technologies as well). However, you need something to happen in "real space" otherwise you can't get a fix on an origin point (and the time ship existed in a place beyond space-time, and was unaffected in any way technologically by any of the temporal changes). Also, tiny changes in time might have massive consequences further down the line in the timestream, so if a critical technology isn't invented for use by the Temporal Agency, their operational capability can be upgraded or downgraded at any moment for any reason (unless shielded permanently from temporal changes, which seems unlike due to shield gaps necessary for temporal transportation - beam-ins and beam-outs).

Unless the actions of the Krenim altered these events.

Perhaps there’s a wormhole they never found due to the 8472/Borg war. But... Kes wrote a report and they already had the temporal frequency of the torpedo because they used it to save Kes. Oh, and it was 47 so I’m kinda amazed it’s not standard Starfleet policy to try imputing a 47 First whenever they need to guess a number.

I'll grant you that voyager should have known about the krenim through the report of kes, that also bugged me a lot... But: First: the thing about Kes being there in the year of hell does make sense IMO. If i remember correctly (i might not be as it has been a while since i saw the episode) it is said in this episode that kes by this time is the oldest ocampa that has ever lived. This is probably thanks to federation medical advances unknown to the ocampa, and maybe treatments the doctor invented in this future timeline. For all we know Kes is 18y old when she is dying, not 9. Not sure if her age is ever mentioned? And yes maybe they did find a shortcut if kes remained on board, but kes now not being onboard changed the timeline? Secondly: when kes experiences the year of hell, the krenim are quite able to cause quite some serious damage. When Voyager meets the krenim the second time in year of hell, the krenim can barely make a dent in voyagers shields. So this definitely is a different timeline from what Kes experienced. The territory is not the same. The krenim claim the territory, but it is not recognised by anyone else and is actually claimed by the zahl at first in this version of the year of hell. It is only when everything changes becasue of the incursion that it becomes Krenim territory again. My reasoning is that what kes experienced is an alternate future, and what we see in the year of hell proves that. The year of hell with the weak krenim is a result of a time incursion the time ship did, that turned out bad for the krenim, reducing them to nothing. What Kes experienced was a differnt time before one or multiple other time incursions. We see the change from weak krenim to powerfull krenim happening in the episode "the year of hell", and it is due to another incursion by the time ship. And this makes sense too, it is reasonable to assume that the time ship is doing incursions all the time, but that voyager simply is not affected very much as they are not from the delta quadrant, so history doesn't affect them much. And when history changes, they don't notice as they change with the incursion. And they are travelling in a straight line all the time and travel great distances, so the time incursions don't affect voyager much since they are far away in regions that aren't affected. Voyager isn't affected until they come near (former) krenim space since this is the region of space that is affected the most by all the time incursions. But yes, it would have been cool to see some small changes in the episodes between "the gift" and "year of hell", which aren't explained until "year of hell". That would have been super cool. Wondering what the hell is going on for a few episodes only to have the big "oooooh wow" moment in year of hell... But in the end voyager was a traditional episodic-format series, which was the standard at the time. DS9 was the exception, not the rule... That is my main gripe with voyager: that they stuck to the episodic format so much. Every episode we got a reset to default. It would have been so cool to have voyager as a "frankenship" by season 7, with all kinds of alien tech strapped to it, panels changed, armour in patchwork colours and so on... Really show that they had to make due with what they could get and what they were able to obtain from alien races... I was so happy to see voyager with borg tech all over in scorpion. Finally! But then an episode later they invent some lame excuse of "incompatibility" and have voyager back to its pristine state... Can't have it all i guess?

The whole catalyst for the year of hell was because Janeway didn't want to let a piss ant walk all over her. And completely disregarding the locals because fuck the prime directive, this guy was rude to me. Low point in janeways character development indeed, glad it never happened

@@johanwittens7712 That was a pet peeve of mine as well - the fact that Voyager was in a brand new region full of exotic and advanced technologies and it took no steps to actually study any of the technologies for utilization in their journey back home or for further study purposes once they got home for integration into Federation science - the Sikarian trajectory with 10,000s of light years range, the weapon's dealer cannon that could shoot through armored targets (that we never got to see in action again), the Voth, the ion cannon bombardment from the planet that imprisoned the Voyager crew (which would have been a cool addition to planetary security for the several times that the crew wanted/were forced to ditch Voyager for a possible colony. The times that Voyager bartered with alien races with Federation tools and technology, and hardly seemed to gain any useful tech back. No new technology created for Voyager, despite having multiple detailed scans of planets with civilizations, ships, stations, etc. No ability to use transwarp corridor, yet Picard could somehow enter one with a Galaxy class. Borg enhancements to … "systems" (no indication of which systems, by the way). Tricobalt warheads that were only used once. A probe that was "revolutionary", only used once. The Delta Flyer - an improvement over shuttles, only used a couple of times. Several Borg crewmembers, but nobody has the "connection" to the Borg that Picard has to hear where weak spots or critical systems are on vessels in battles against the Borg? The space platform of the Delta Quadrant, or the fact that Iconian and stargates exist in the Alpha Quadrant, and if Iconian tech can take you anywhere in the galaxy/universe, it would mean that multiple other nodes/hubs exist elsewhere. The Hirogen communications network, used only a couple of times, despite being the only link to the Alpha Quadrant for a long time. Hirogens being ruthless and relentless hunters, yet Voyager always a way to get past them with little or no problem. The fact that slipstream technology existed flawlessly on an alien vessel, but somehow was short-range and flawed on a Federation ship which was on a comparable technological scale, or the fact that the race that invented slipstream was assimilated, but Borg vessels have no slipstream capability, even after assimilating a vessel with a working drive. Shuttles dropping likes flies across the episodes, yet Voyager never runs out of shuttles to use. Voyager losing key components or technologies due to damage, sabotage or infections (gel packs come to mind), and yet everything is fine with the ship and crew in the very next episode. The inconsistencies just goes on and on and on. For all the fun that Voyager was, consistent writing across episodes wasn't one of its strong points. I mean, in one example, the Doctor cannot go anywhere on the ship without his mobile emitter, and in another episode holographic emitters everywhere on a ship is the answer to his problem? Couldn't Voyager have the capacity to do that at the start, with some minor modifications by its engineers? :P

Will this be a future version of Starbucks (galaxybucks) or Dunkin' Donuts? Will time cops need to pass a physical fitness requirement in the Time Academy (copyright reserved)? :P

Zealomaster 1 Grammar?!

"Always fresh, when you have the knowledge to reverse anything stale." - Time Horton's slogan, named for the chrono-hockey star who once scored 11 anti-goals and 34 desists for the Temporal Maple Leafs in a triple-D game against the Heisenberg Uncertainty and the Schrodinger Catastrophe. Try their new Moebius Donut. Just when you think you're finished, you'll have another go-round to enjoy. Perfect with a topless cup of their plasma-state Arabica blend.

Twin brother separated at birth. It happens eventually with so many time incursions. (^:

unintended consequences.

What?

I sort of followed what you said. They would have countermeasures against time cops, gotcha

@@michaeldriggers7681 the kremmin are a good example of the law of unintended consequences.

@@paulfusko8566 that makes sense.

So which one came first: the chicken or the egg? ;)

That final one is prolly the most accurate one. I mean... it is where Janeway brings back temporal technology for humans to be a time travel species. I can easily imagine any beat that involves proximity to Janeway is the job they give to the Agents they don't particularly like.

Katrina Payne Probably lol, i would imagine that the agents watching over Voyagers journey and its history must have gotten either lazy, bored and were half assing everything to do it all

@@zeropianozeronetwork4107 Wasn't it someone like Pax I think his name was that was involved with Voyager and the 29th century? Considering the number of them at one point running around the same timeline who is to say it wasn't a later version of himself deleting the records and sensor reports of the incident to try and stop what happens to him in the past.

frag2k12 that could be the case but i dont think thats it, it might have showed in the temporal logs but i highly doubt they would be important considering how little effect it would have on the galaxy as a whole and that the ship was destoryed and its history permanently changed before the temporal distortions were logged (edit: im a grammar nazi 😂)

Temporal science is INCREDIBLY shaky at the best of the times across Trek. What time travel does or doesn't do is largely dependent on what the story of each time travel episode needs it to do, and one can say the only consistent thing about time travel in Trek is that it merely "resets" the timeline, sometimes with no changes, sometimes with minor changes. We've seen multiple time travelers, each using different temporal technologies or temporal vechiles, with vastly different motives, from different time periods and with different temperaments and/or behaviors. I have to disagree with the history of the Delta Quadrant being of no consequence to the Alpha Quadrant. It is, after all, home to the Borg, a scourge to all living things in the galaxy and beyond. We also know that some Krenim were among the Borg, so it would make sense that the Borg would have know how to shield themselves against temporal changes in the timeline or at least be aware that the Krenim had temporal science knowledge. It might also explain how the Borg were able to have an exponential tech base and an uninterrupted tech development curve for at least a third of its known 900 year history (Seven's says records from 900 years ago are incomplete), when it is largely a dysfunctional society that has none of the elements for a functional society, lacking an economy, has no diplomatic ties with anybody, no research or development facilities, no artistic or creative endeavours, no known leadership succession protocols in place. It may be what perhaps also allowed them multiple victories on multiple fronts against previous assimilated species - it all depends on the locality of the temporal changes. While I would like to think that the temporal changes would be localized, one has to consider that the Krenim empire shrinks or expands a lot depending on the changes implemented, so the area of affect seems to be variable with each change. Weirdly enough, none of the changes seems to completely destroy the Krenim, so one has to consider that the Krenim time ship crew had some pretty significant temporal manipulation knowledge to allow them to, at the very least, not manipulate time to such an extent that it erases them in the process. I see the Borg also as a reflection of many of the races we see in the Delta Quadrant - someone who takes what they want with force because they want/need it either because they need it to become stronger or because they don't want to become weaker, with the Borg lording mostly over weaker races that are, for the most part, no match for the Borg, the ultimate bully in the quadrant. In this, I can easily see that the Krenim unintentionally allowed/created another Delta Quadrant species' rise to power as a direct threat to all races in the quadrant, without even knowing they have done so via the timeship as the catalyst. I can't, however, place the blame all at the Krenim's feet, as we all know the time shenanigans that multiple groups and organizations have littered across all time, but it's fun to think that all the small problems and failures stacked up to a one single massive catastrophe in incremental steps while no-one was looking or paying any attention to it, and by not knowing that a specific outcome was due to tiny manipulations, most will simply assume it's "natural history". I also have to point out that the Alpha Quadrant has had a rather large effect on the Delta Quadrant's history and technological development, even when it was not their fault or intention. We have 2 Caretakers (of which one pulled in multiple ships from the Alpha Quadrant, and those crews and ships have gone on to have contact with multiple peoples in as far those they have traded technology with (boosting those local tech bases of those peoples and species), those who were attacked/defended, encountered, saved, not saved, items taken away from certain groups or given to others, etc. by the Federation and Klingon ships. The Federation has also allowed genetic materials of Alpha Quadrant races into the hands of Delta Quadrant races (and who knows how that may be utilized in the future), created a Borg splinter group in the Delta Quadrant, an evolved Kes was unleashed, the female Caretaker hates all things Federation and Starfleet, and with the Borg transwarp hub severely crippled, the Borg will probably turn their attention to all other systems and sectors within the Delta Quadrant. One can point out that every single episode in Voyager impacted the Delta Quadrant in some small or large way, either by helping out with old problems or by creating new problems for others.

That is what I hate about time travel stories. The end literally becomes the beginning, but minus the story. ;)

Agreed. When Voyager arrived back at Earth it should have looked how it did before the reset in Year of hell

It would be watch worthy enough that they pretty much sold the series with a similar idea.

It woukd have been brilliant to have the doctor getting pissed off cause his sick bay is being turned into crew quaters as crew quarters is put over to food production. Doctor :I'm.a doctor... not a... Paris: take this crate won't you doc? Doctor: I'm not a bell hop!

Agreed, I remember they tracked how much fuel they had for all of one season before it became TNG in the Delta Quadrant. There should've been a board where they tracked how much damage and resources the ship had left and writers would change the totals as the episodes were written.

Um so y'all heard of Battlestar Galactica?

It applies in both non interference and internal affairs.. regardless of what a wiki says :p Its most clearly defined in several tng episodes

It's original purpose was and is to not screw around pulling ancient aliens type nonsense on non-developed civilizations. Secondly, the Krenim are hostile jerks and no Starfleet captain I've ever seen (barring Picard occasionaly) seems to care about the prime directive anyhow. Insaneway gets a pass on this one in my view

Exactly. The Borg share info, with one another. So voyager wasn't aware of any of it. I like first contact.

A problem with that theory: the Borg needed to build a beacon over the Enterprise-E's deflector to send a message requesting reinforcements to that time's Borg located in the Delta Quadrant. The beacon was never completed so the message could not have been sent. I very much doubt the Queen's sphere had the capability to send data back over an entire quadrant back to Borg HQ; when it is obviously a much weaker vessel in every way compared to the Cube. The only way that anyone knew the Borg tried to inference with the Phoenix was before the Queen detonated the Borg Cube during the Battle of Sector 001. That would be the only time that the Borg could have known about their involvement in that specific event, because the Queen herself would have sent that command via the Collective.

i agree. year of hell is like Voyager but if it was the Equinox.

PollAll Yeah of Hell is what the entire show should’ve been.

Matthew I couldn’t agree more...

VXGAMING The visor requires a connection to the brain (as seen by the metal nodes on Geordis head), so it’d require brain surgery to install, and Voyager just wasn’t equipped for that at the time.

That and the replicators were likely working double time to repair parts required for life support system. I mean... they did manage to jerry rig the ship to function while being literal swiss cheese. That has GOT to take up resources to set up.

@@eugenideddis But didn't Geordi's later implants/contact lenses eliminate the need for the visor altogether? ;)

Classified by Star Fleet or redacted by Section 31?

Matthew Mccoll not sure what you mean. Yes she was a kid when she was assimilated and spent time in a maturation chamber, but she would still have had full access to the Borg knowledge at least when she became an adult drone. She would have left the Collective after FC and would have know about what went on, even if no one on Voyager did.

That's only part of it, the prime directive also says that Starfleet has to respect the laws of any culture they happen across. At least going by the TNG interpretation.

It's also utilized in a non-interference system with what is considered to be internal affairs of other powers, as seen in the 2-parter TNG episode 'Redemption'. This Voyager example surely falls into that category.

@@AgentExeider They barely have, I always look at the directive as more of a guideline and not much more for primitive people.

Myeah, even Spock finds that directive stupide, so...

@@AgentExeider At least that point of the Directive makes the Directive Nonsense.

staRRing - staring is done with the eyes

Tuvok is the only really deranged One on Board. The others are ALL just Mentally Unstable... Well, except Naomi Wildman - her Intellegence was weirdly varying for some reason, going up and down, but i still liked her.

Thats what I was thinking too. They only seem to step in when the timeline doesnt correct itself like it did in this episode.

Depending on which interview you watch itwas supposed to be at least a 4 parter if not last the whole season. Also depending on which said interview you watch some combination of Rick Berman and Paramount interfered with that

@@wcoleman99 I could have lived with the two-parter if they hadn't done the reset at the end. It's a long time problem with trek that they're unwilling to follow up on their own stories. It's odd that DS9 and Discovery (and Enterprise's 3rd season) which have long story arcs all got a lot of hate on their release for this same reason though.

@@maisiesummers42 well that was the main problem I had with voyager overall was the hard reset on anything that mattered

Maisie Summers if you include the keys reverse life episode, and the keys returning to cause havoc “freeing her younger self”... it is a 4 part story...

Braga wanted it as a season arc, Berman reduced it to what we have now with reset button, on the grounds a season long arc would have been too interesting.

Completely agree with you

bradwolf07 🙏thank you

That was the original plan.

Also any event that wasn't influenced by an entity after the establishment of the the temporal agents would be considered established history and therefore the temporal agents aren't needed as it would influence the established timeline, the very reason the agency was established. It would be self defeating.

Space is so vast, maybe it has a range.

@@samdog8087 possibly. It's also possible that the krenim time ship weapon only affects local areas and not Galaxy wide.

@@apophis40123 Didnt I just say that ? Lol

@@samdog8087 I misread that as the temporal agents having a range lol my bad.

Well, they don't OPENLY question Janeway's wisdom. They know better.

@@NimhLabs Didn't Seven OPENLY argue with Janeway multiple times in front of the crew? ;)

Didn't the Krenim timeship exist outside of space-time? That would mean that they would be untraceable, wouldn't it? They also had chronoton-based weapons, so any assault against it would have failed, not to mention the ability to reset encounter scenarios multiple times. I wouldn't be very surprised that the Caretaker Array and its inability to find a medical treatment was due to multiple temporal "resets" by the Krenim timeship. Would kinda make sense, in an extended kind of way. The Krenim timeship, after all, had been at it for quite some time. It could also explain why the Borg had time-travel technology during First Contact, but not at any other time during previous contacts.

@@sigmacademy The Borg didn't have proper time travel... they just accidentally stumbled into figuring out time travel. That being said, The Borg are not allowed to have time travel technology as they failed the trail put on them.

I would argue that similar technologies might be developed, but others might not. The Krenim timeship had a weapon that could erase a ship from history, but we don't see future Temporal timeships with such a weapon. All encounters with future timeships either resorted to conventional sabotage during the timeline (bomb onboard Voyager during it's construction phase), or powerful conventional weaponry (in the time travel where Voyager is sent back to contemporary Earth and it accidently ends up being responsible for the introduction of future tech as contemporary invention on Earth). Sisko, Kirk and Picard also had time adventures, as did Archer (that mysterious guy giving orders in Enterprise was rumoured to be Archer trying to manipulate events from the future) and future Admiral Janeway. I would say that all captains either interfered or directly affected the original timeline in some way or another. Temporal pollution is a reality? :P

@@sigmacademy Actually the bomb is temporal technology based. Also in the Episode where Voyager is shattered in several different timelines, it is hinted at though not confirmed in canon that this was not a natural phenomenon. In the Novel, "Pocket full of lies", it is revealed that the Krenim engineered this temporal incursion by accident as their technology was countered by "other" forces *(Another aspect of the Krenim in novel form I like, they're strictly scientific atheists, they don't believe in "God-like" beings and have a strict belief in perceptive knowledge. When a Star Trek higher being does act, they can't calculate it as they don't believe in "random causality".)

Krenim might not even be a future time faction? We've seen plenty of time travellers in Trek series, and each of them comes from different time periods, controlled by different overseers (or being sole operators), so I would say that the future time factions might not appear to be the conventional understanding of what they are, but more multiple interests consolidated around singular pursuits, like temporal archaeology, or temporal terrorism, temporal politics or illegal temporal tech advancement, etc. Several races might wish to pursue the same agenda, with the same approach, while freelancers/proxies and operators might exist to "facilitate" certain actions.

Still don't understand why they store their rock collection in consoles next to the stores of nitroglycerin. So many dead crew members.

Considering that multiple vessels was taken from the Alpha Quadrant by the Caretaker, and that both a Klingon vessel and the Equinox was taken before Voyager, the naming convention seems fishy? :P

I think it is that and internal affairs.

Unless it's section 31.

Going by TNG yes but no depending on which episode you go by.

And it loves you!

The conspiracy is more about the Borg's interaction with humans when Humans first gain Warp Flight technology. As oppose to the Battle of Sector 001. As Riker was aboard the first Warp Flight of humanity after Janeway was in the Delta Quadrant... and the Prime Temporal directive would have had Riker's passenger status on that ship be knowledge that wasn't shared... as it would have far reaching consequences after Riker was born. Also... English sucks when talking about atypical temporal movements.

@@NimhLabs Or the fact that a future crew had to fix the launch facility after an attack to allow the Phoenix to launch on time. Or the fact that the Phoenix was attacked by same future ship. Guess you will never hear that in the Federation's official Phoenix account? Considering what we saw in First Contact, I'm asking myself if the inventor of the warp drive was ACTUALLY the inventor of anything, and not just some crazy scavenger that had the right mix of tools and components lying around when time travellers visited him? ;)

@@NimhLabs Also, I still maintain that Temporal Mechanics was an attempt by sadistic instructors at Starfleet Academy to punish know-it-all students who make them look bad with a subject that is nigh impossible to understand when you have storylines that have shifting parameters for anything to do with time. But that's only my honest opinion? :P

Section 31 likes to do it's stuff subtle and quiet,not loud and explosive. How else do they keep their existence a secret?

@@edgardox.feliciano3127 And we did see an attempt to use Soran's weapon on the star of the Bajor System, by the Dominion.

@@edgardox.feliciano3127 But the Federation was LOSING THE WAR and the entire purpose of Section 31 to quote Sloane was "We deal with threats to the Federation that jeopardize its very survival. If you knew how many lives we've saved, I think you'd agree that the ends do justify the means." So with the Federation losing Betazed and being pushed across the Alpha Quadrant? That would seem like the perfect reason to use a Soran weapon. And remember they don't give a shit about genocide, as long as it doesn't trace back to THEM and with the Dominion war there is oh so many "unsavory" actors you could pin the blame on, the Breen, The Romulans, hell you could even say they did it to themselves. In a bit of poetic justice they tried to create a superweapon and blew themselves up in the process...oh so many ways they could do it that wouldn't trace back to Section 31 while letting them win the war. Again this is the problem with having a war winning weapon added to canon when you have a ton of races that would use it as you have to wonder why the Soran weapon didn't become their own version of the Atomic bomb with every race scrambling to get their hands on it.

@@TheHangarHobbit how about why don't they use transporters to transport the crew of the enemy ship to space to suffocate? As for the soran weapon, the TV show crew either forgot about it, or the weapon was SO TOP secret, that even section 31 didn't know about it

@@edgardox.feliciano3127 The transporters has built in safety features to keep you from doing that to your own crew (see TOS where they didn't have that and one episode actually beamed some red shirts into space) so I assume the same features would also keep you from using it on an enemy. Plus that brings up the whole "can you transport through shields" debate and even the creators of the damn shows can't make their minds up on THAT one so you could argue that all damn day and never get a straight answer. But with the Soran weapon we are talking about mission reports from the flagship of the fleet, you can't tell me Section 31 with so many in high ranking positions don't get to see the action reports from the flagship. And I'm sure a report that says "someone has built a weapon that can kill entire star systems in a single shot" would rush through the halls of Starfleet as there would be a LOT of questions you would want answered ASAP, such as "Did this person show anyone else how to build it?" "How hard was it to build?" "What was it made of?" "Who has access to the materials to build one?" "How can we defend against a bad actor with one of these weapons?" etc etc. And according to another poster in one of the DS9 episodes the Dominion DID try to deploy a Soran weapon against the Bajorian Star, which means they must have stolen it from the Federation which again begs the question if Section 31 has access to the Soran weapon why did they not deploy it, especially when the enemy is trying to deploy one of their own? this is the problem with adding a superweapon as canon, every time your heroes backs are against the wall you have to say "dumbshits just use the superweapon". Its the same reason Last Jedi fucks up Star Wars as if hyperspace can be used as a weapon then you should be able to wipe out a fleet of Star Destroyers in minutes with any old crap you have lying around by strapping big ass hyperspace engines on them and having robots kamikaze them into the Destroyers. So while the Soran weapon wouldn't work against EVERY threat to the Federation (for example it wouldn't do shit against the Borg who have no home world to blow up) with the Dominion their alpha quadrant attacks were all launched from Cardassia, the bulk of their fleet was in Cardassia, the founder was on Cardassia, if Cardassia goes boom? The war is over. And Generations happened nearly 2 years before "In The Pale Moonlight" which gives the Federation more than enough time to develop the Soran weapon and a way to deploy it.

I doubt that something like that could work in the original storyline - Admiral Janeway was already a different person than her old post-Year in Hell version, because Year in Hell was reset so it never happened (which doesn't explain how Kes had a pre-vision of it, but reasons, I guess), but also because in the future Janeway's history many crewmembers had died in their journey back to the Alpha Quadrant, which of course didn't happen in the new timeline, because they used Borg tech to get back to the Alpha Quadrant much quicker and with future tech as well. What you could probably do is let Janeway order the crew to abandon the ship, never reach the Alpha Quadrant and live out her life on a colony in the Delta Quadrant, die valiantly fighting her enemies (she made a string of them in the Delta Quadrant) or try to make her fight a guerrilla war with the Krenim or wait until the Federation develops technology to visit the Delta Quadrant and hop onboard on a ride back to the Alpha Quadrant onboard a Federation starship.

Of course they had to act and did act! They needed to make popcorn for when somebody is dumb enough to pick a fight with Janeway.

except the whole reason the krenim got reduced back to a low tier power running freighters instead of battleships was because of voyagers shields disrupting the time wave. So if they didn't have their shields up either nothing would've happened or they could've just been erased as they got destroyed by the first ship they encountered.

For Janeway's character, yes it was the best story arc for her as a character in Voyager. She was deconstructed and became unhinge beyond even her norms. If you ever get a chance to read the novels, the novel "Pocket full of Lies" covers this story arc and Krenim are featured as being a faction in the Temporal Cold War in the future in the Department of Temporal Investigation novels. I know Post Voyager, nothing is Canon, but I loved the author's idea of a "major invasion by the Borg", Janeway's Endgame made the Borg re-evaluate Federation, so they sent an armada against Alpha Quadrant of several thousand cubes, Star Trek Destiny book series is epic.

It's generally regarded as a highlight of the series, yes. There certainly are detractors and many people who praise the two-parter still criticize its use of the reset button, but the general consensus is very positive.

Species 8472 is better, I think

@@BryanTerran Wow, I'm surprised to hear that, maybe it you were there at the time it felt a lot more grandiose and "WOW" but when just watched as part of a string of episodes it fails to reach such highs, but yeah the reset thing was the absolute worse though (among other little things)

Perhaps the Krenim's actions were what started the Temporal Cold War?

Well, to answer some of your questions, I believe the Hansens developed a bio-cloak, despite the Borg Queen knowing all about them, which begs the question whether the Hansens were studying the Borg, or whether the Borg was studying the Hansons. Also, Guinan was part of the El-Aurian race, which was destroyed by the Borg in Kirk's time, so the Federation would have heard of them, just not be familiar with them, since they had not encountered them in first contact yet (which kinda begs the question where the homeworld and colonies of the El-Aurians were (in the Delta Quadrant or somewhere in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant). As for traveling with the Borg, one can either speculate that it was near enough to the Cube to be carried along or it had someway of accessing the transwarp conduit (like the Enterprise did), but then again, it wouldn't explain how a relatively weak civilian research vessel could withstand the speed stresses of a transwarp conduit, but then again, Voyager or the Enterprise had zero issues, so "reasons" I guess? I can also accept First Contact's ships as canon because we see several of them in other Trek series like DS9 and Voyager (Akiras, Defiants, Steamrunner). So just because I don't see an Sovereign class in there, doesn't really mean anything story wise - there could be many reasons why they would be missing from the screen - secret missions, patrol duties, research duties, intelligence gathering, etc. Also, by powering down we've seen a shuttle coming up real close and personal to a Borg cube in a TNG episode. As for Best Parents of the Year award, I don't think having any kids on Voyager is a good idea, considering you are on a Federation starship with a warp core that is disabled or crippled by a mere sneeze? :P

Or perhaps the Time Agents saw that the Krenim were about to pick a fight with Janeway and were all, "oh bitch you didn't... oooh, get the popcorn their ass is about to get whoooped hard!"

It would be fun if the Federation time agency was actually formed using a combination of Alpha, Beta, Delta and Gamma Quadrant temporal technologies (including Krenim). STD is going to the far future, so perhaps we will receive some Temporal Agency and time faction information then. :)

@@NimhLabs I doubt it (even it sounded bad-ass!!!). Wasn't there a time-travel episode in Voyager where a temporal agent tells someone from Voyager that Voyager was one of their worst headaches due to its large amounts of times they had changed time and how it fitted into later events in the timeline?

@@sigmacademy I was using that same episode as proof of my statements... and a few other episodes where history books about Voyager have the same effect as books of Eldritch Horrors do in Lovecraftian Fiction. I mean, Janeway eats 1d6 investigators per turn and what not.

@@NimhLabs Always wondered why there's a shortage of "investigators" in the Lovecraftian Fiction - I mean, Miskatonic professors can battle eldritch beings no probs, but normal people can go "crazy" from just looking at these beings? (are Miskatonic professors eldritch beings themselves?) :P On a related note, isn't Voyager history books in "future" episodes based on alternate timelines? (wiped out when Voyager does something differently - like the episode where Voyager crashes on an ice planet, for example - or where the Doctor gets activated by an alien race several hundred years after an alien encounter where Voyager is a museum and the aliens present a revisionist history of what had happened).

Jik IV - I think it's showing that the Janeway we see at the beginning of the episode is an altered version of the character who has already been changed by the effects of the Kremin weapon (it's a shame we never get to see what these events might have been). We don't see the 'real' Janeway until after the time ship has been destroyed.