We Built a CNC Spin Test Rig...The Outcome Was Unbelievable!

Рет қаралды 10,539

5 ай бұрын

How long does it actually take to break-in the piston ring and cylinder liner? Which one wears - the ring or the liner? We built a CNC spin test rig and used a digital microscope and a profilometer to measure the before and after results. The outcome was unbelievable! Watch to the end to see the answer.
To learn more about ‪@lnengineeringllc‬ check out: lnengineering.com. They have some resources on motor oil, especially for Porsche engines.
Who is the ‪@themotoroilgeek‬ I'm a Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Monitoring Analyst (I've maintained both of those for over a decade). I also worked for Joe Gibbs Racing for 12 years as their lubricant specialist. During that time, we worked with Wix Filters (one of our sponsors) to test and develop filters for our race engines. We also worked with Lubrizol and Chevron-Phillips Chemical to test and develop oils for our race cars. Following that, I was the head of R&D for Driven Racing Oil. During that time, I formulated and tested over 50 products. We also worked with Cummins, Comp Cams, Oak Ridge National Labs and General Motors on various R&D products. Those efforts are recorded in peer reviewed white papers published by SAE International and ACS Sustainable Chemistry journals. Today I'm a Tribologist for Total Seal piston rings.
To learn more about piston ring and surface finish testing, check out this playlist: • SwRI Cylinder & Ring T...
#engine #pistonring #dyno #CNC

Пікірлер: 63

@OneAceracer 5 ай бұрын

Tests like this (and the results) just would not be accessible to regular racers without companies like Total Seal and guys like Lake Speed! OUTSTANDING!

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@Torquemonster440 5 ай бұрын

This is cool info. But, wouldn't how piston rings behave under combustion heat and pressure in a running engine differ greatly vs the conditions demonstrated in this experiment?.. Thanks for all your work Lake, love the channel. 👍

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Under real running conditions, it would happen even faster due the increased load from combustion pressure.

@StuartBlake-iz6rf 5 ай бұрын

Nice job on the channel. Have watched the oil filter and now the rings testing. Very interesting. Definitely a winner for the company.

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Thanks. More to come!

@m.s.3110 5 ай бұрын

I'll be waiting for part two 👍

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

10-4!

@billshiff2060 5 ай бұрын

Limited usefulness test. The ring must also bed in to the bottom of the ring land too. Without pressure it won't be the same.

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Agreed. This was just about observing the ring to liner contact. As you said, the most important sealing surface is the ring to the ring groove.

@Stan_in_Shelton_WA 5 ай бұрын

rabbit hole VS crazy rabbit trail, hmm interesting concept.

@crd-nz_001 5 ай бұрын

I wonder if the test was repeated using zero oil (control) and then using various other lubricants (auto transmission fluid, gear, proper break-in, diesel... maybe even graphite powder... The point of this is to give data to those engine builders who use their own "snake oil" and if there would be truth to effective break-in with different lubricant types.

@jmflournoy386 5 ай бұрын

gone into your oil and filter, change your oil

@paulmiddletonphotography4368 5 ай бұрын

This is quite interesting and indicative. To give actual, in-engine results you do need real-life piston, head, block, coolant and oil running temperatures and cylinder pressures that a running engine experiences to make publishable and repeatable, objective evaluations! Can you dyno an engine for a running-in data comparisons? I would imagine the data are quite different.

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

That is in an upcoming video!

@dondotterer24 5 ай бұрын

I believe in a running engine the rings will break In faster because of compression and will break in the top and bottom of the ring.

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Of course, the pressure from combustion will speed up the process.

@upsidedowndog1256 4 ай бұрын

Makes sense to me. I broke in my new 03 Suzuki on the way to a dragstrip (2 hour ride). I let it cool down and made 30 or so passes and then rode it home (another 2 hour ride). I changed the oil and filter once home. In 2024 the bike has never burned a drop of oil!

@TotalSeal 4 ай бұрын

Nice!

@ex.spaceshuttle.worker 4 ай бұрын

Wow 30 passes at the drag strip. Very cool What was your average time and what was your best time?

@MrTheHillfolk 22 күн бұрын

@@ex.spaceshuttle.worker I usually just hit the test and tune nights. With that being said, I remember one night there was only like 8 cars. I'm joking of course,but I ran so many times that I was almost getting bored 😂. Line right back up after a run and go again,for about 2.5hrs when I decided to finally look the car over ,and then went back out for around another hour. Like Archie and Edith sang: gee that old LaSalle ran great, those were the days. 😂

@Trev-fl1oe 5 ай бұрын

Always something to learn.cool job you do lake .looking forward to whats next thankyou lake.peace

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Thanks, and more to come!

@Mr1969SuperBee 5 ай бұрын

How much do the combustion event and the heat generated by it effect break in?

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Combustion would speed up this process.

@4speed3pedals 5 ай бұрын

How much horsepower does it take to spin a typical V-8 at 200 rpm, say a complete oil filled engine sans induction system, water pump, flywheel and exhaust system? I wonder if a 220 volt, 2 horsepower electric motor would do this? Be nice to do this prior to installation while on a test stand prior to actual running with gasoline.

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Great question!

@bobirving6052 5 ай бұрын

I think your 2hp electric would do it. I have a big drill that will do it.

@bobirving6052 5 ай бұрын

3 hr version please! 😄

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Noted!

@hotchihuahua1546 9 күн бұрын

I have often wondered and thought an engine with a piston in a vertical position , like a vertical straight 6 , would allow wear to be more even in the cylinder bore , piston and rings ! Unlike a V configuration or horizontal block ! Gravity being the determining factor in uneven wear !

@rolandtamaccio3285 3 ай бұрын

I'm bringing out some new honing stones . Double ought Sidewalk ,,, !

@sidneysanders5726 Ай бұрын

Lake Speed Jr, Total Seal Piston Rings. I was wondering, how do I get into the study of tribology?! Watching you explain and the information you give makes me want to get into this also❤

@TotalSeal Ай бұрын

Check out the STLE.org website!

@sidneysanders5726 Ай бұрын

@TotalSeal, thanks a lot! Got it bookmarked so I can read and see what it takes to join. I've been sharing my interpretation of your teachings to my friends and Facebook pages. I'm glad to have listened to you on powernation when you was on engine power telling a good summary of the history of piston rings. Steam engines were the first to use piston rings.. that's cool ❤

@PANTYEATR1 2 ай бұрын

I'm sure someone way smarter than me has asked this question already. With the spin rig in a "boxer engine" position how does that tell the effects on the rings in other engine configurations? Wouldn't these test results differ if the spin rig was in an inline, 90° V8 & 60° V6 positions? Does gravity in each of these engine positions effect the results? Thanks, love the channel🏆💪

@TotalSeal 2 ай бұрын

Thanks. We could not do this test in a vertical position because there wouldn’t be enough oil available. The boxer position makes it possible.

@PANTYEATR1 2 ай бұрын

@@TotalSeal thanks for your reply. However, i didn't get an answer to the question of if the results would be different from gravity pulling on the piston in different positions? Of course if oil is properly supplied. Thanks again

@PSA78 5 ай бұрын

This seems a lot easier than what I've experienced; running engines at different load (torque/cylinder pressure) and different rpm and check for differences. It wasn't critical, but there wasn't much wiggleroom either as it took longer to warm up the engine than it took to do the break-in correctly. 😆

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Absolutely!

@Errol.C-nz 4 ай бұрын

That's all very well for a compressor cylinder.. try the same test on a "combustion engine" .. under progressive load.. & see when the rings start to gaul from the hone on the bore especially with nikasil.. do a hand file experiment light filing & heavy.. with a sharp file vs old full file.. that's what the bore will do to a ring.. & destroy any surface treatments.. then the rings done.. localise friction heating & ring temper tension's are gone

@bubbleox8631 5 ай бұрын

What about under full load ???

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

It will happen much faster!

@benrossbach6501 5 ай бұрын

Replace the word geek with maybe guru

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

LOL, thanks!

@jimhmod 5 ай бұрын

Does this dispel some break-in theorys of running fresh motors for just breifly, letting them cool then running progrssively longer, mainly for the purpose of not over heating the rings and loosing tension? Any difference for air cooled motors, ie., the test cylinder ----------or Harleys?

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Yes, that theory is false, and it is not good for the rings or liners.

@mcgregor711 3 ай бұрын

Did the rings turn? I always wondered about that.

@TotalSeal 3 ай бұрын

Yes

@mikes9939 4 ай бұрын

Great video but turn down the music a little.

@TotalSeal 4 ай бұрын

Noted!

@J.C... 28 күн бұрын

How is this anything like an actual cylinder in an engine? Most of the people using Total Seal rings aren't running blocks with Nickasil coated cylinders 🤷🤦 they're cast iron with heat and oil and fuel and all the other things. So how does this equate to that? I ain't seeing it.

@jmflournoy386 5 ай бұрын

loose the music or whatever you call it

@ryanl8653 3 ай бұрын

Don't let the V8 guys know what that cylinder is for, they would lose their shit!

@TotalSeal 3 ай бұрын

LOL

@brentonk461ismylostaccount 3 ай бұрын

Well I'm sorry too burst your bubble but The only true way too test and run-in pistons and rings properly is too run-in on a live running Engine with actual cylinder pressure and actual splash lubrication and combustion, And a variable load. If you don't want fuel wash and contamination run it on liquified petroleum gas LPG or Propane. Set the mixture lean. The effects of fuel wash and rich mixture can then also be seen upon tear down. doing the run in without any combustion and load will cause a glazed cylinder which will then become useless and will cause excessive oil consumption. Insufficient oil ring tention will also cause excessive oil consumption too occur. I have more

@TotalSeal 3 ай бұрын

We are fully aware of that. Check out some of our other videos on that.

@YouCantSawSawdust 5 ай бұрын

I'm a little confused. He said the Spintron runs outside of, and separately to the engine assembly. So, why did he correct himself when he said that the at 2,000 rpm at 3 minutes, it was 3,000 cycles, not 6,000 cycles? Why would the Spintron machine bother indicating at crankshaft rpm when there is no need? Surely the Spintron would have its own RPM guage that the camshaft is turning at.

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

The camshaft still runs off the timing chain which is connected to the crankshaft, even on the Spintron.

@chinnana583 5 ай бұрын

Sorry to be critical, but this does not really match typical combustion chamber forces, temperature and even Cylinder orientation (Except for some boxer engines). Really disappointed in this video as it did not provide any value/insight of wear analysis.

@TotalSeal 5 ай бұрын

Combustion would only speed up the process.

@alro2434 4 ай бұрын

Piston rock from compression to power strole.