Thank you for your comment, it means a lot! And I agree completely, it's crazy how much of an impact shifting your perspective a bit can have on your experience of a game. These grey areas are what make games like Skyrim so fun in my opinion.

That's a really good point!

It’s not like real life where it’s up for debate, the gods in Elder Scrolls are so real that being the Tamriel Equivalent of Atheist would basically peg you as the town fool.

A thing to consider though: Talos is three men in a single entity, and one of the three has fecked off (Zurin Arctus, Daggerfall, who reclaims his heart from Numidium's Mantella-aka-fake-Lorkhan's-Heart), one has said the Nerevarine should succeed the Septim Empire (Wulf, aka Wulfharth the Ashking, the Stormcrown, who addresses the Nerevarine as an aspect of Talos), and all Tiber did seem to have supported the Champion of Cyrodiil/Sheogorath. This seems to hint that Talos might want a Dunmer-Nord alliance to replace the Empire of Men, and not one headed by the dunmer-hating Stormcloaks, but by Nerevar Incarnate. (and it's got some logic-- the Akaviri have constantly wound up involved in finding the next divine emperor, and if the Nerevarine's in Akavir... who's to say they're not going to come back as a successful dragon emperor?)

You guys keep saying, “Dunmer-Hating Stormcloaks”, but a few things. Those drunks in front of town, are not Stormcloaks. They’re just rude citizens of Windhelm. Living in Windhelm does not automatically make you a Stormcloak. An interesting world contradiction, in Whiterun, when merchants there complain that “Stormcloaks don’t wanna buy from them”, is contradicted by the fact the Stormcloaks will recommend their services to you when talking about them, meaning that they do endorse them. Next, if you actually talk to the people stirring up a Fuss about the Dunmer and Argonians, it’s usually always because of the same reasons: “They don’t work now, why would I pay them more for mediocre work?” Or “This is rebellion city, yet those Dunmer do nothing to aid in the War effort despite living here.” Even the Altmer merchant in Windhelm recognizes this when she talks about how, “The Nords don’t give her trouble because she proved herself useful and made the right friends. The Dark Elves don’t understand this and that’s why they dwell in that slum.” It always comes back to the same thing, they don’t help. They’re lazy, they don’t anything to aid the City or Rebellion. So they can get bent as far as most of the nords are concerned. That in turn is why Ulfric turns a blind eye to “their” plights. Why would he care? He has to worry about the plights of his rebels, his loyal townfolk. He has no time to deal with a bunch of people who aren’t even technically part of his rebellion. If you actually read “Scourge of The Gray Quarter”, when the Dunmer originally arrived in Windhelm, Ulfric’s father was on the throne. Unlike the Dunmer in Riften; who properly assimilated into Riften and have been doing a great job working their parts and keeping the, admittedly thief ridden town running. As for Windhelm, when they arrived, they “were not expected to contribute, and so have not”, they didn’t try to assimilate into their new homes, they tried to branch off the gray quarter of Windhelm and “make it their own slice of Morrowind”. That may sound legit at first, but what it boils down to is, “we wanna live in this city, but uh, we don’t feel like helping some lowly nords”. And that isn’t too exaggerated either. Walk in on the Club Owner in the Gray Quarter, talking to the lady you meet at the beginning of the City, and he’s talking about how her working for a Nord Family is “demeaning” and how “I guess some Dunmer are content to be their pets”. If you haven’t gotten it by now, it does not fall solely on the Nords. The Dark Elves are just as, if not more responsible for these racial tendencies. The Nords hate them because they don’t do anything, yet still squat in their city. It’s all about work ethic and pulling your weight to them. That’s all that actually matters to the Nords, and you find this out when you actually interrogate the Racist drunk. Where as the Dark Elves legitimately just hate the idea of working for and helping Nords. Which isn’t surprising, they came from Morrowind of all places, and those guys in charge were the worst. TLDR, it’s not about Just the Stormcloaks, if there ever is going to be peace, those Dunmer need to get their damn act together and start helping the city they now call home. Once that happens, the tension should slow down and stop. Again, Nords dislike them because they’re lazy and don’t help. But if the Dunmer made an actual attempt to Assimilate into, and assist Windhelm, the Jarl and his people would be far more welcoming. Cause at the end of the day it’s all about the Rebellion, everything else is secondary.

@@MotorcycleCheetah Bruh you really don't know what you're talking about, do you? All of the Dunmer have jobs. They pay their taxes, they contribute to the city and its economy. Merchants, farmers, even a keeper of a trading company are all Dunmer. Even a bard - which is a very traditional Nord art - is a Dunmer. They're being mistreated because Ulfric disproves of them, nothing more. It is unsurprising that the Dunmer respond in kind. And it's not just the Dunmer who point out their mistreatment - the Argonians do, too.

Yeah man, I totally get that. It is about more than just practicality, I think people who are not religious or close to someone who is, have a hard time grasping things like that sometimes.

There isn’t a single material thing worth sacrificing your afterlife.

There was no secret worship prior to Ulfric causing the enforcement of the Talos ban.

@@dutchpatriot17there also want legal open worship.

@@Islamphobe Legal or not, there was open worship because the Talos ban wasn't enforced.

People who know the lore tend to support the Empire... Also, Ysgramor was long dead by the time the Falmer were defeated.

Oh also sorry about the weird video quality, I have no idea why the video looks bad, it just got messed up when I exported it. The audio turned out ok though.

I kill the Imperial legioanrs, but do not hate them, I kill the Thalmor Justiciars, and smile. Funny thing I do is I carry ether an enchanted iron war axe and hide sheild or enchanted iron greatsword, so that if I see one of them escorting a Stormcloak prisoner, I give them the weapons, kill the escorts, and watch them flee to join the rebellion.

The people who fight for the Empire have their reasons too, and they think they are the good guys. It’s not black and white, just depends what you value more, freedom or safety.

@@MaxsontheCamper That’s very true, and there’s been many times where I thought the Empire would be good for Skyrim too. I think that’s what makes the cvil war storyline so interesting, cause both sides make good arguments and it can be a hard decision on who to choose. If really shows just how good the writing and storytelling is.

The Dominion forbids Talos worship because they are racist towards humans and believe a human becoming a deity is sacrilege. I always laugh when people say they chose the racist side because the other side is racist 😂

​@@Catbeans99The choices are between the Stormcloaks (racist) and the Empire (not racist). Not between the Dominion and the Stormcloaks.

@@dutchpatriot17 The empire is with the dominion.

@@Catbeans99 That is just objectively false, lmao. Speak to Ondolemar. Speak to Tullius. Speak to Rikke, and the Legates. Read the Great War. Read the dossier on Ulfric. The conclusion you've drawn is that of sheer ignorance.

@@dutchpatriot17 You are awfully ignorant.

Yep, it’s all about your own perspective on things.

If you think that the Empire is racist, you're delusional.

If you think those two are bad, wait until you hear the bigotry of General Tullius himself.

​@@james739123Elaborate.

One hundred percent man, a lot of people like to say the Stormcloaks should have just practiced their faith in secret which is so idiotic to me, in real life people have fought wars and revolutions over that. Being able to openly express your faith in your own homeland and the birthplace of said faith is something you have every right to fight for. If you look at the actual Stormcloak movement itself, it is about a group of people fighting to separate from an Empire which forces unwanted laws onto them. (Mainly laws that defy their traditions, faith, and pride.) They want to make their own nation and forge their own destiny, it is a separatist movement at the core. The "racism" aspect is more about the individuals than the movement and even then, like you said, it tends to be exaggerated. People use a few characters as examples and claim all Stormcloaks are like that, when it's really a mixed bag. Though to your point of "Too bad the devs didn't expand on it, where you, as an important person could do something about it." I think it's better that they did not. Realistically speaking you are talking about the views preconceptions of an entire nation that people were raised on, they don't change overnight. Change of any kind on that scale takes time and happens over generations. You have to actually accept that you can't fix the flaws of either faction and you have to recognize that there are problems with both and decide whose cause is more important to you. I think it's more realistic and interesting that way. On the opposite side of the coin the Imperials are tyrants that suppress the beliefs of their people. (Whether forced to by treaty or not, tyranny is tyranny.) So instead of being able to change factions to your liking you have to accept that neither of them are perfect and neither of them are about you, they don't revolve around you. Instead, you have to choose whichever you believe has the most value, all things considered. It's a personal choice and there is not a right or wrong answer. It would be less interesting and less realistic if you could just eliminate the flaws of any given faction. I think games and factions work better when they do not revolve around the player. It feels more immersive that way IMO. What I wish for is that the devs added more depth into the civil war quests and made them more varied and replayable. A lot of it was just "Take X fort full of generic enemies." I think they really skimped out on those missions. The Civil War quests should be interesting and complex not just "Clear X building" or "Clear X city".

@@MaxsontheCamper Hmmm, that's true, I haven't really thought of that, that not just fixing the racism in Windhelm can be better from a storytelling perspective. Indeed, neither of them are good, that is what civil wars always were at the core. Both tend to have good arguments and their not so good arguments. Still, I'll never pass the opportunity to break Rolff's nose when I get the chance, and help the Argonians so they can have better pay. It's a little help, but still a meaningful one. and Yes, the expand on the civil war would be great. I mean they scrapped a goddamn recruiting of a giant! That shit would be the motherfucking tits!

​@@piratczvojtapopovics Imagine if instead of constantly "re-releasing" skyrim with slight graphical changes, mods made by other people, and unnoticeable new features, they actually spent time expanding on it, improving quests, and restoring unused content. That would be awesome and I would pay for that. I think a lot of people would, if they actually put some effort into improving the game. I don't think they are interested in doing that though lol, it is a shame though.

Talos is not "their" religion. Talos is a God in the Imperial Pantheon, not the Nordic Pantheon... Also, the Stormcloaks are definitely racist in a lot of ways. One in every three Stormcloaks has a problem with an elf telling them how to live, one in three Stormcloaks use race-based fallacies "true Nords" to sign on, Galmar mistrusts anyone but local Nords or Imperials, Stormcloak Commanders outright state they will kick out the elves, the Windhelm Guard states that anyone but "loyal Nords" should watch their step, and Thongvor Silver-Blood blames all of elvenkind for the Talos ban. Speaking of which, nobody bat an eye to said Talos ban until Ulfric's shenanigans at Markarth forced the Emperor to crack down and allow the Justiciars in. Prior to that, everyone still had their shrines to Talos as if nothing had even happened. The Dunmer of Windhelm, much like the Argonians, have only been mistreated in the city since Ulfric became Jarl. Also, the Empire is not racist. They're just being realistic. Just take one quick look at the lawless and chaotic shitshow which was the Interregnum.

That’s true, I had forgotten that the Empire was literally founded on people going out of their way to invade others, they are kind of like a less worse version of the Aldmeri Dominion when you think about it lol

@@MaxsontheCamper Exactly, when you look at the two faction's long term goals the stormcloaks are interested in paying the Thalmor back for their crimes, then ultimately returning back to their province to self govern themselves, while the Empire though currently in shambles would certainly aim at reconqueroring lost territory once they've defeated the Thalmor and rebuilt their infrastructure, it's within their nature to lord over others and profit off of them while they're at it, it's been that way from Tiber Septim all the way to Titus Mede

Galmar outright says that he's ''not looking for sellswords'' and that the Stormcloaks need ''dedicated men and women'' when you ask him if he only takes Nords. He's assuming that, just because of your race, you must be a sellsword or lack dedication. That's also why he sends you out to Serpentstone Island - he doubts our loyalty or our resolve, just because of our race. Only foreign Nords have to go through the same procedure. The Empire is absolutely not racist.

@@dutchpatriot17 He doubts an outlander regardless of race, you said it yourself he's fair across the board, if you're not from there he has to make sure you're not someone who'd waver during their crusade, which makes sense, you'd have less reason to want to die for a country you're not native to than in comparison with native born nords. If you honestly don't see any racism/discrimination in the empire you either are ignorant aka never played previous games or you're simply lying to prop up the empire, either way it's embarrassing, because the imperial rule is born out of conquest, a process that asserted cyrodiilic law, customs and culture ABOVE that of the native population, that's why even in a province like Morrowind who had a special treaty that gave them far more autonomy than others, they still harbored a grudge for how much the imperials impose

@@DjangoFatt @DjangoFatt He only cares about us being a foreigner if we're an Imperial or a Nord. All the other races he mistrusts, even if they were born and raised in Skyrim. You need to look up what racism is, because the Empire is not it. The Empire barely gets involved in local culture. Skyrim wouldn't have Jarls, Moots, or High Kings if it did. Morrowind wouldn't have Great Houses and the Temple. Hammerfell wouldn't have the Crowns and Forebears, etc. I haven't played a TES game beyond Skyrim, huh? Somehow I doubt you've played Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Battlespire, Redguard, Legends, ESO, or read the Novels like I have.

lol thank you

I’m doing three different runs with an imperial, an elf, and a Nord, all three joining the Stormcloaks.

Yeah bro that is very true! Just because Skyrim is not a part of the Empire does not mean they can't be a vital ally to fight against the Thalmor. Same goes for Hammerfell, like you said. They can find a way to build mutual respect and trust and fight the Thalmor together. Though I guess at this point it would be hard to do since ego and pride gets in the way of any real agreements. I hope the new Elder Scrolls game has an interesting conflict like the Civil War that is actually expanded on, where your choices actually impact the landscape and feel valuable. I think the idea was good in Skyrim, but it was poorly implemented/rushed.

The Stormcloaks are getting massacred by the worst the Empire has to offer; Skyrim's men and resources would be wasted on vastly inferior troops if Ulfric rules Skyrim.

Skyrim

The Stormcloaks do so too, witness the Forsworn.

@@dutchpatriot17 You mean the Daedra worshipping savages? Yeah, a noble innocent people them.

@@preferredpronoun3689 Thought crimes. Love your hypocrisy. It is to be expected from a Stormcloak supporter. I'm guessing you've also overlooked the part Ulfric played in the enforcement of the Talos ban?

@@dutchpatriot17 You cannot compare sacrificing victims to the Daedra and following Hagravens to Talos worship and except to be taken seriously. Ulfric is viewed as an asset by the Thalmor, if that is what you mean. Asset means useful tool, which everyone is to a conniving Thalmor. Typical average Imperial horker IQ.

@@preferredpronoun3689 Oh sweet summer child, how little you know of the way Reachmen "worship" Daedra. Just so you know, most of it does not include human sacrifice. But I guess we can't expect a Stormcloak supporter to know the lore. And no, Ulfric literally collaborated with the Thalmor. They established direct and cooperative contact with one another after the Great War, following which he proved his worth as an asset, in particularly during the Markarth Incident where Ulfric forced the Empire to openly break the terms of the Concordat. As such, he paved the way for the Justiciars and the enforcement of the Talos ban. He's only listed as dormant and uncooperative because he ceased working for the Thalmor after they also demanded his arrest at Markarth. Nothing "useful tool".

Yeah, totally. It’s not like it was just a fine or anything either, they literally arrested people over it if they did that in their own homes.

I'm so confused because I get notifications for comments, then I come to the video and they are gone? Just to double-check, did you leave a comment suggesting a video recording software? Because I saw the comment in my notifications, but when I came to the video it was gone, that happened with like 5 people's comments lol I'm so confused.

if not, stormcloaks are just suicidals

lol I'm surprised you've never heard of Skyrim, but yeah, just experimenting with stuff. My next video will be on Ninja io though, I'll always make ninja videos.

@@MaxsontheCamper Haha i dont really have so much knowledge on computer games. i know a broad range of mobile games tho

Hey, what did you think of this kind of video? Do you think I should make more stuff like this every now and then, or just stick to ninja io topics? I’m always going to do ninja io, these kinds of videos are more just for fun

@@MaxsontheCamper um, I think you can also make more ninja.io videos or some Japanese horror game videos. For example, the game Saiko no Sutoka. The game is very good, I hope you will work on it soon in a video :D

Tolkien actually talked a lot about how much he hated allegory, when you are playing a game or watching a show you should immerse yourself in that world and enjoy it. That is the entire point of playing/watching IMO. People who bring and see current politics in everything are just spoiling their own fun.

@@MaxsontheCamper Very true and most of the time they are not followers of gaming or popular culture. It's mostly activists who''ve latched on to the newest craze that everyone is following to garner attention and clicks as it gains them money for their own channel or support for their own ideology

@@michaeldavies7949 Haha yeah man! You are spot on! It’s really funny seeing outrage over games or shows from both sides of the aisle by people who I’m certain would have never even encountered the piece without controversy! People are fine with a piece of media, then controversy starts and the same people who were engaging with it before suddenly shun it. It’s like some people just look for things to be angry about. I get being upset over real world politics when laws impact and change your life, but looking for it in pieces of media and entertainment is silly to me because if you don’t like a game or show you can just choose not to watch it, it’s not like a law that’s going to impact you no matter what. I just think people get really mad about politics so they look for ways to vent their anger wherever they can find it. That, and lots of political papers or shows run out of content to talk about so they look for anything they can to latch onto to fill a slow day. People in politics are some of the most corrupt and disingenuous people I’ve ever seen, personally, I want to keep politics out of my life as much as possible. To each their own though, but personally it would drive me crazy and spoil everything if I looked for real world politics in every piece of media I engaged with or vetted it for controversy before “picking a side”. Just play what you think will be fun and judge it with your own eyes. I am really pumped for the new Elder Scrolls, but it’s not going to be out forever, which stinks. I heard they are taking their time with it though and want to make it really good narratively which means we will probably get more “grey” factions and more controversy, but I plan to just play the game and immerse myself in it, I’m going to ignore any real world modern controversy people are trying to link to it.

@@michaeldavies7949 You know, what I’ve found also is that lots of these people who freak out over everything online and look for things to be mad about, are a lot more open to people and ideas they disagree with in real life. Not all of them, some of those people are just insane. But there is a good chunk of them who only act like that online, I’ve met some of them in real life and they can be reasoned with, and you can often agree to disagree. But online, you just get called a bunch of insults. It is like being online makes them angrier or something, that I really don’t understand. It seems exhausting.

To clarify I mean, they still get mad over real world politics and issues and speak about it in forums but if you speak to them face to face and explain what you think and why some of them are open to reason, whereas online there is no chance at all. I wonder if it is because of tone, or something else.

Haha, yeah I'm not the best at Horseback fighting in Skyrim. It is fun though!

@@MaxsontheCamper lmao I got motion sick a little bit. I had to look away. XD

Yeah, fair enough.

@@6Tainted1370 Those blackbriars scum should be eradicated along with thieves guild, silver hands, blades and thalmor

@@6Tainted1370 The Silver-Bloods literally use terrorists to bully mine owners off their lands by illegally occupying their territory with mercenaries. They also use the Forsworn to take out anyone who they disagree with, or use the corrupt guardforce to arrest people on made up charges to turn them into slaves for Cidhna Mine. They are 10 times worse than Maven is.

1) I like Rome too (Who doesn't like Rome in some manner?) 2) Don't particularly care for the jarl of Whiterun but I can respect the jarl of Morthal. 3) How is staying with the Empire until the war is over the best course of action for Skyrim? Or perhaps the question is, how is gaining independence before the war the wrong choice?

@@proudamerican183 I feel like join the stormcloaks make the Dragonborn look only like a second hand man/woman instead of what they could be emperor of nirn through ulfric we would see more hatred to elves even if it’s not the man him self a lot of his people are

Haha, I can respect that! The imperials do look cool!

What are you talking about? The only reason why the Markath incident happened was because of the lack of Talos worship. The only condition Ulfric gave to the Jarl of Markath was to restore Talos worship if he helped clean the city from the Forsworn. How was the worship of Talos allowed when we have books talking about the agreement between Ulfric and the Jarl of Markath about restoring the worship of Talos? Talos worship was outlawed the moment the white and gold concordat was imposed. The Jarls of Skyrim were bribed with gold coffers to not ask questions and just accept the ban on their faith.

I addressed many of these points already in the video. No, you can’t just tell a religious person to practice their religion in secret, and that while it is technically not allowed, no one will stop them. That technicality of it being not allowed is infuriating and impossible to live with for many, and you can see through talking with the NPC’s in Skyrim that some of them were ok with the ban and practicing in secrecy, but not all of them. And that is realistic, people don’t all view their faith through the same lens. Additionally, the main factor motivating the rebellion in the mind of the average stormcloak solider is in fact, religion. There are other factors at play, but religion is the largest and most significant by far. It is not about Ulfric or the Stormcloak leaders, rebellions are about the average person fighting, not those who lead them. Additionally, the point you make about Talos being a bigger deal in the Imperial capital than Skyrim is false, while it may have been a point of pride for the Empire, as you can clearly see by playing through oblivion, and Skyrim respectively, the people of Skyrim are much, much, more devoted to Talos. You are free to disagree if you want, but this issue is not a one sided one, and you should recognize that when you side with someone, you are doing so on your opinions and beliefs, not objectivity. Again, there is nothing wrong with that, but it IS a complex, and two sided issue.

@@MaxsontheCamper Problem is that people didn't worship in secret... As said, nothing changed in regards to Talos worship until Ulfric's tantrum at Markarth. ''religion is the largest''? Is that why only one in three Stormcloaks uses it as a motivation? And then more specifically because family was abducted by the Thalmor than anything about Talos himself? The people of Skyrim are not more devoted. They ignore the teachings of Talos, and are literally dismantling the very Empire that He created. The very same Empire which the other Eight destined him to built. The very Empire which made him a God to begin with. Cyrodiil has been worshipping Talos for over 350 years longer than Skyrim has, a district of the capital is named in his honor, his statue is placed central in the Imperial City Arboretum instead of that of the chief deity Akatosh. The people of Skyrim are not more devoted - they're more violent. More ignorant of their own culture and customs to even be aware that only 200 years ago even the Nords of Bruma refused to worship Talos in his Grand Cathedral in Bruma.

@@dutchpatriot17 I don’t know how to word this well, but essentially what I’m trying to say is not that they could not worship openly, it’s that it was technically not allowed and they knew it. Even if it would never be enforced in their lifetimes, knowing that the Empire signed that treaty must have been infuriating for many of them. And on the topic of devotion, they want to dismantle the Empire Talos built because they believe it is no longer true to Talos or the values he held. That’s how I view the rebellion at least, hopefully I explained that well, trying to explain positions is hard in KZfaq comments lol

@@dutchpatriot17 That is just my view on it though and I recognize that, so you are totally justified to disagree with me if you want. That’s kind of what I’m trying to get at, everything here is a matter of perspective, not sure if I explained that well though.

@@MaxsontheCamper But that's just it, nobody did care about the outlawing. They were fully aware that the Empire wasn't going to enforce it. Because of course they would not. Cyrodiil had worshipped Taloa for over 350 years longer than Skyrim has. If the people already cared from the start, then there'd have been a civil war the day the Concordat was signed. But that didn't happen. Ulfric started fighting skirmishes with the Empire after he became Jarl, and failed to gain much support. That went on for up until 4E201 when he killed Torygg. Only then did he start getting serious support. The idea that they're all fighting to worship Talos doesn't add up with Ulfric failing to gain support.