This is such a refreshing take, I'm glad you made this. The idea of Hammerfell & Skyrim having an alliance to war against the Thalmor sounds beyond epic, maybe a storyline in which the Stormcloaks win and convince even the Argonians that if they truly want isolationism too they'd have to get rid of the Thalmor.

I’ve been contemplating the idea of an independent Skyrim joining forces with Hammerfell for years now. The Nords and Redguards both understand the existential threat the Aldmeri Dominion is to all Humans on Tamriel. Banning The Worship of Talos was just the beginning of the Thalmor’s Genocidal ambitions. Look at the ethnic cleansing that is taking place in Valenwood for example, and that’s an Elven Province. There is no reason to think they wouldn’t do the same against a non Mer race.

If Hammerfell can fend off the altmery, I dont see why Skyrim cant. The empirials are getting in the way if humanity has a chance to survive.

Based. Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

Anytime I play through as an Orc, I always join the Stormcloaks because either a. Having the Empire trying to execute me immediately had my Orc ready to join the Stormcloaks (Congrats, you radicalized him) b. Knows the Thalmor persecute and punish anyone who worships Daedra, so that means its a matter of time before Malacath is outlawed. If the Empire was willing to ban Talos, then Malacath is not that far away. c. If the Empire allows Thalmor to drag away Nords in the middle of the night to get tortured and interrogated, then the same will happen to Orcs. d. If my Orc becomes best bros with Ulfric and Galmar, then cutting a deal of leaving strongholds alone and have a cooperation deal in place for invasions then that is a best case scenario.

I never actually noticed that! Thalmor Agents don’t appear in Stormcloak controlled areas. Probably because they legally can’t Or because they’ve already been offed by Patrolling Rebels. XD That is such a cool detail!

The only that bothers me about joining the Stormcloaks is you have to fight Whiterun and run off the Jarl

The Stormcloaks don't try to kill you, they look cooler, have a better vibe (charging a fortress with 10 guys as the 'mighty legion' is weird), and have the best dialogue in the goddamn game at the end of the questline.

I absolutely agree bro. I’ve been thinking this for years. There’s no reason that Skyrim shouldn’t be independent. The Empire doesn’t actually care about Skyrim, her customs, or her people. The Empire just wants Skyrim and the Nords so that they have more bodies to throw at the Dominion when war time comes. Ironically enough, I am sure that if the Empire simply said to the Nords, “Hey we’re gonna withdraw our troops and grant you your independence so we can send our Legion home and help bolster Cyrodiil’s defenses for the next war. All we ask is that when the next war does break out, you help us fight the Thalmor” then the Nords would agree. Because while I’m sure many of them despise the Empire, I’m certain that they hate elves more, and I know they’d rather help out the Empire than watch Cyrodiil fall to the elves. Plus the Nords love to fight so it’s a win win. But the Empire won’t do that because it’s not about what’s logical or what’s fair to them. They’re an EMPIRE, and they want to maintain their control. They want all possible nations to fly their banner, as Imperialist countries often do. It’s for this reason that the Stormcloaks absolutely must win and break Skyrim free from the Empire’s grasp. I think if an independent Skyrim formed a sort of “anti-Thalmor coalition” with Hammerfell then they stand a high chance of beating the Thalmor, as Nords and Redguards are the greatest warriors in Tamriel. I think you have the most reasonable take and approach to this. I feel that most people don’t think beyond surface level on this topic, they just see how nice Balgruuf is or they see some Nords bullying some Dunmer in Windhelm so they immediately say, “No the Stormcloaks are bad and racist! The Empire is obviously the correct choice! They’re the good guys!”

Build a wall. F the Empire. Make Skyrim Great Again!

I have hypothesized numerous ways the Thalmor could try to attack Skyrim, and they are not good. 1) if the Thalmor try to land march through Cyrodiil, some Imperials will see this as a provocation and could attack the army, starting the second great war, meanwhile, Skyrim and Hammerfell could see this as an opportunity to gather their two armies and trap the Thalmor in a pincer manoeuvre, a war on three fronts is definitely not going to bode well for the Thalmor. 2) They gather a fleet of ships and go around the east coast, again they'll run the risk of dealing with Hammerfell, whom are noted for their skills as sailors, so they won't be getting supplies from Hammerfell to restock on the journey to Skyrim, then there's High-Rock whom it's hard to say if they'll allow the Thalmor to dock their ships and regain supplies, some might help but High-Rock is known for its kingdoms been devised in their beliefs so some might welcome them while others might want to take a shot at driving them out, it's hard to tell. 3) The set sail to the west coast, then they have to deal with Black-Marsh and Morrowind, the Argonians are not usually happy with outsiders making demands and if the Thalmor tread on the wrong tails so to speak, they could wind up pissing of the Hisst and we'd have another incident of super-tree-sap Argonians tearing what is supposed to be a superior force been torn to shreds, and even if they get past them to Morrowind, the Dark Elfs under the rule of the "Good Daedra" could suspect treachery, much like High-Rock, some might welcome them in, but given the more cut-throat nature of the Dark Elfs, some of the high ranking members of the Thalmor could find a Morag Tong blade in their backs, the best way they could work around this is by offering to help the Dark Elfs enslave the Argonians again, but that's just going to divert resources away from their plan to invalid Skyrim, giving them more time to prepare.

Rebels are fun to join.

You've just inspired and full on Stormcloak anti-Thalomor play through. I haven't completed the main storyline since 2012. I'm going to do a two-handed build (i've never done before) with Wuuthrad. By my right, Ulfric will be high king. And the eleves will slink back into the hole the came from

Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

This video and the video " the secret plan of the thalmor" from fudgemuppet is all the information that is needed to see that the stormcloak victory is necessary.

I'm a simple Skyrim player: If I see the Thalmor, we're fighting.

I mean look at the end. Ulfric gives a passionate speech about rebuilding their country to a glorious state so the gods will approve. And the imperial it's just "I am doubling your pay" That's how they got they go them to cheer. I despise the empire

I play as a Khajiit who was born and raised in Skyrim by her adoptive Nord parents, and she lived in Windhelm. I also play as a Stormcloak, and my character deeply worships the Nine Divines. She also hates the Thalmor with a burning passion. Loved your video! 💙

finally somebody if refering to the Dosier of Ulfric. you have a very valid argument.

I would liked the option to marry the queen of Skyrim unite the rebels and the empire and crush the thalmor and have a dragon born high king

You have convinced me about siding with the stormcloaks. Your arguments make sense, thank you.

I think the Empire is overall better prepared to combat the Aldmeri Dominion as far as resources and manpower, yet the Skyrim seceding is more interesting especially since Hammerfell shares a border with Skyrim and was out in a similar situation as Skyrim. If Ulfric canonically wins the civil war, he could ally with Hammerfell since they share the same sentiments (self rule, beef with Empire and the Dominion). The Redguards actually have Pelinal levels of hate for elves lmao also Valenwood was forced into the Dominion so it's possible it could rebel. This would force the Dominion into war on at least four fronts; Cyrodiil, Skyrim, Hammerfell and Valenwood. A continent wide war in Tamriel storyline is lit af

For Skyrim!

My favorite race is high elf elf yet I still choose the storm cloaks I like to role play that my character was banished from the Somerset isles and wants revenge

One point I've noticed is how the Thalmor call the conflict "The First Great War." People didn't call World War 1 that until after World War 2 because they weren't expecting a second war. However, the Thalmor are clearly already expecting a second war in the future. So you have a growing Aldmari Dominion already planning for a second war and a shrinking empire that's thinks they can win if there's another war. Sorry to say this, but the elves are already five steps ahead of you. The only thing the elves really seem to fear is a Stormcloak victory.

Walking through Skyrim you always see decay and loss around every corner. Sometimes it's just better to tear things down and start over instead of trying to delay the fall. Perhaps that's the reason why the stormcloak victory feels so grand and emotional compared to the imperial one.

this is very refreshing to see, so many videos I've seen make it look like ulfric would just hand skyrim to the elf's and join them.

I think the one thing people who think of the empire as the better option tend to pay attention to is the future. The idea that if Skyrim is under imperial control, then the empire can regrow its strength and take on the Thalmor when the second Great War happens. The problem with this though is that they fail to notice two critical things. For one the Thalmor have already infiltrated every layer of the empire and are watching their every movements. The second thing they forget is that the empire would’ve lost the Great War had it not been for the White Gold Concordat. The empire quit while they were ahead. The Empire recognized that had the war continued they would eventually be overwhelmed so they called the Thalmor’s bluff. While it appeared that they had the overall upper hand it was only momentarily, mind you the empire also had help from Skyrim at the time. At the moment the empire has all cards stacked against them. Winning the war for them doesn’t change that.

Take a shot every time NordicWarrior says "Diplomatic Immunity". Jokes aside, this restored my hope in the Stormcloaks, and they'll have a new sword on their side in my next playthrough for sure.

:) Good Video, Your right on most all of the major parts of that fight and taking sides. Fighting on the Empires side is wanting the Thalmor to control Skyrim, Fighting on the Stormcloak side is wanting Nords in control of Skyrim, Nords (whether you agree with/like Ulfric or not).

NordicWarriorGaming. General Tullius is naught but a footstool for Elisif and Elenwen. He is a puppet of the Thalmor. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead right. All hail the Stormcloaks, the true sons and daughters of Skyrim!

It's important to remember that Ulfric himself is only considered an "asset" so long as the war remains a stalemate. He is NOT allied with the Thalmor nor is he helping them as some simperials seem to believe. Also, I didn't know that Elisif openly supports the Thalmor. All the more reason to side with Ulfric Chadcloak every playthrough.

Let's not forget the start of Season Unending. The Empire INSIST on Elenwen being present at the negotiations, KNOWING how Ulfric would react. To quote Rikke when Ulfric protests "That didn't take long." Tullius intentionally brought someone whose presence alone was enough to cause conflict. The Empire needs Skyrim INFINITELY MORE than Skyrim needs the Empire. The Dragonborn's also an actual member of House Telvanni, which hopefully gives him even more influence in Morrowind in addition to being on good terms with Redoran.

NordicWarriorGaming. Which armor leveling best suits Ulfric Stormcloak? Does leveling two-handed help him?

Remember, if the dragonborn Joins stormcloaks, dragonborn can bring an army of dragons. The dragonborn can ride dragons.

The Thalmor cannot invade Skyrim therefore, they are using the Empire and the WGC as a doorway to set up a large enough occupation to overthrow Skyrims leadership.

I have said this on different videos and I'll say it here too. By the end of the main storyline the dragonborn is essentially a demigod wielding immense power and daedric artifacts, Parthunaax, your ally, is the new defacto lord of the dragons. So if a liberated independent Skyrim were to get into open war with the Aldmeri Dominion, they'd have the Dragonborn on their side, it stands to reason the Dragonborn through Parthunaax could bring the dragons to bear on those witch-elves, he can count on Odaviing and Durnehviir and push come to shove just bend the will of dragons to fight for him, though I doubt it would come to that. Then you have nine holds worth of hardened Nords willing to win or die and go to Sovngarde because losing isn't an option. Also you can factor in the companions. Then you have Hammerfell who have been subjected to the Dominions bullshit for years, gnawing at their borders. A humbled Cyrodiil would side with Skyrim because it's in their best interests due to the common enemy, their legions, however depleted would help some. High Rock would probably also be willing to help out because Bretons are ultimately men and the Dominion would seek to subjugate them. You made an extremely good point about House Redoran and what's left of Morrowind, I could see them helping. Black Marsh is doing whatever the fuck. All in all, the Dominion is screwed.

NordicWarriorGaming. There are two books in Skyrim wherein the dark elves prove that they are extremely racist. One is in the college of Winterhold and I think the other one is in Dragon's Reach. Acerthorn has a 2hr+ video discussing why the Stormcloaks are no racist and you should side with them. In it he redundantly proves that the dark elves are racist and the Argonians too.

This isn't a problem for me, the Nords always win the civil war in my playthroughs.

While I agree with some of the stuff stated I believe that the Stormcloaks are largely missing the point. So for starters the Empire actually defeats the Thalmor at the Battle of the Red Ring where they hang the general Lord Nariffin on the White Gold Tower. They, however, have a decimated army that could not sustain further conflicts with the Thalmor at that time. Titus II signs the treaty, which is just the same ultimatum that was given to him on the 30th of Frostfall. This included large sums of tribute, southern hammerfell, and the outlawing of Talos worship. During the closing of the Great War the Reachmen, who had ruled themselves successfully for two years, we under threat from Ulfric as he led a band of militia men to recapture the city for Skyrim. Ulfric used the Thu’um to achieve this victory and would commit several war crimes in the city. The ex Jarl of the reach would try to return to his place as jarl but Ulfric would only accept this if he allowed free worship of Talos in his hold. The Jarl would accept and so would the Imperials who were with him, hoping that the Thalmor would not know that they were allowing Talos worship in Skyrim. The Thalmor would figure out, however, and would arrest Ulfric after the incident. Ulfric would “escape” custody and return to Windhelm to take his place as Jarl. The High King of Skyrim, Istlod, had died after Ulfrics return and a moot was held as a formality with the rise of High King Torygg. Ulfric would use the moot to argue for Skyrim’s independance. Some time after Torygg rose to High King Ulfric would return to Solitude yet again but this time to challenge the boy king for his throne. Torygg respect for Ulfric, as he was a hero of the Great War, and most likely would have listened to him had Ulfric came with good intentions. Ulfric would challenge Torygg for his throne and would use the Thu’um as his means to kill him. Ulfric would flee the city and the civil war would begin. The Thalmor have no interest in either side winning. The Imperials winning would be a huge threat to Aldmeri power on the continent and would allow them to build up and pose a threat in the next war. The Thalmor would rather have the province divided as this would make a easy victory for the Dominion. To move onto Hammerfell its important to note the factors which were at play during their conflict. The Dominon armies like stated before had been destroyed at the Battle of the Red Ring. The Redguards were also let go from the Legion to return to their homeland and defend it which gave Hammerfell battle hardend soliders to fight. Hammerfell also has access to Stone Wizards and Cannons which are two things Skyrim would lack. Skyrim is also a very weak province by itself. Most of its population are dumb farmers who aren’t well trained. Skyrim is also lacking in food production and in industry as well which are two things they gain from being in the Empire. Especially since they have, by this point, been in the empire for close to 634 years. The Thalmor also have a much stronger military now which would be able to defeat a newly independant Skyrim. One quick point you mentioned in the video about the Imperial soldiers. To quote the star wars movies, what they are saying it true from a certain point of view. The Empire is the sheild that is guarding mankind from being overran by the elves. While yes Justiciars are in Skyrim, that is the effect of losing a war, they are not able to have total authority in the Empire. We know at the very start of the game Tullius refuses to give Ulfric to the Thalmor at the gates. In Diplomatic Immunity you can have Tullius write a letter for Thoralds release which the Thalmor cannot refuse. Onto the Empire being dead thats not entirely true. Morrowind is both a part of the Empire and isn’t a part of the Empire. Specifically House Redorans land is more so part of the Empire, though its not all that valuble. Red Mountain decimated the province so its not that useful. Black Marsh isn’t either since the only trade it actually has is eldrich god tree sap, and dock workers. The only really important province its lost has been Hammerfell and possibly Summerset, though the elves have always hated mankind. Speaking of Mankind, my last point. Mankind is protected by the 9th divine, Talos. Mankind cannot be destroyed without Talos losing divinity. The Empire is also protected by Talos since he is, even though its highly complicated, the founder of the Empire. Dividing the nations of man would only destroy any hope of victory against the threat that is the Thalmor. Other than that it was nice to see a video that isn’t the same lame stormcloak arguments, the video was based and chadpilled, though knowing the lore I would have to disagree. Sorry for the long reply though, elder scrolls is just that epic.

i always thought it was obvious to fight against the machine, but i dont recall most of it because skyrim came out a decade ago. I have thought about playing it in VR with mods but that thought came around American Thanksgiving and Christmas when all the VR headset were sold out. And i never thought about buying one after, but if Im to revisit skyrim its going to have to be in VR with Mods or no revisiting at all lol.

I could see why everyone who plays Skyrim would want to join the empire instead of joining the stormcloaks especially if they betray them

I don’t know why someone would want to betray the stormcloaks to join the imperials

Stormcloak gang

I think that the Stormcloaks can win the Empire is pretty much crumbled people forget that when the septum Dynasty died with Martin septim the me Dynasty took its place this Empire currently belongs to the me Dynasty not the septum Dynasty the septum Dynasty is long past

very good video

How I'm years late finding this, I don't know but I'm glad I did . Two things always put me on Team Stormcloak. First: The banning of Talos worship to kiss the backsides of the Thalmor who seem to hate every other race anyway and want everyone to be subjugated to them. It would be like telling a Christian that we "cannot" worship Jesus Christ (our God in the flesh) because the Thalmor "say so". Insulting the hero-god of the Nords is far beyond the proverbial slap in the face and would turn any devoted/patriotic Nord against the "edict" quickly. Second: One line by the Imperial Captain: Hadvar- Captain what should we do? He's not on the list. Captain: Forget the list. He goes to the block! Me/My Character *Mentally* : Okay, so you're about to kill me because *reasons* even though you just admitted to my face that I'm not on your list of those to be executed.... but you're going to do it anyway because you don't give a *bleep* . Okay. See you later. Meanwhile Ralof and his family are friendly, and even give me a key to their home so I have somewhere to stay if I need it.

After seeing majority of Skyrim fanbase being pro-Imperial oriented, it is so calming seeing sombedy openly taking the opposite attitude. Yes, that quote about Empire defending Skyrim from Dominion is such huge heap of crap Greybeards could build upon it a new monastery to be in even greater seclusion, and just blatant proof of of brain-dead Imperial propaganda. Also, another thing Empire-lovers tends to say often is that without the Empire, ununified Tamriel has no chance against Dominion. This seems to me like clear example of their messianic complex, because why the Oblivion couldn't independant parts of Tamriel cooperate as an alliance? In Second Era, part of Black Marsh, several Houses of Morrowind and kingdom of eastern Skyrim made an alliance called Ebonheart Pact, and with it, succesfully repelled Akaviri invasion and even stood their ground in Three Banner War (up untill that fool Tiber Septim had to sc*ew things up and conquer his Third Empire). Ebonheart Pact was supposed to become Tamriel Pact and its purpose was to assure independance of it's countries. The only reason they wanted to occupy Ruby Throne and put their member as new emperor was to make basically "a blocation" for a throne - making sure, that no true emperor ever takes that place and jeopardize independance of Tamriel's territorries. And again, I ask, why should not a Second Ebonheart Pact be formed, with Stormcloak Skyrim and independant Hammerfell, Morrowind and Black Marsh? The Empire is not needed (expecially Empire that is vassal to Dominion), the Pact suffice in its role more than enought, and there are no risk of misusage of its position to opress its citizens, something that all three Empires in past did.

I do believe the storm cloaks should win the civil war as well, but I think it will also become official lore for future Elder Scrolls projects. It is very obvious from past elder scrolls games and lore leading up to elder scrolls 6 that there will be a second Great War. And like you said if the Empire wins it would cause less conflict with the Thalmor. Which from a story and plot standpoint wouldn’t make sense in a lead up to the second Great War. I do not believe this second Great War will be in ES6 but in ES7. A main reason I believe this is because like you said in your video the only providences left of the Empire besides Cyradill is Skyrim and High-Rock. And say the storm cloaks win the only Providence left would be High Rock. Which leads to ES6, which takes place in Hammerfell and HIGH- ROCK. ES6 in my opinion will be very similar to Skyrim which has a main plot but is dominated by a subliminally plot like the civil war involving the Empire/ Thalmor and whatever faction opposing them. ES6 will not be the Great War Bc with how large of a scale the Great War would be we don’t exactly have the right technology just yet to meet the demands of what people would want from the Second Great War. But instead ES6 will focus on in my opinion, Hammerfell and it’s relationship with the Empire (since the Empire abandoned them) and a “Civil War” aspect in High rock. Eventually leading Hammerfell to convince High-Rock of leaving the Empire. Thus leaving only Cryidil left of the Emire and how poetic would it be for that to be one of the first casualties/ battles of the second Great War in ES7.

Stormcloaks are blue. The end.

Very well thought-out and articulated video. I played as a Nord on my first playthrough and sided with the Stormcloaks for obvious Nord-nationalist reasons, then on my second, played as an Imperial who sided with the Empire for obvious Imperial Nationalist reasons. I'm on my third playthrough as a Dunmer who is siding with the Stormcloaks. I know that will surprise a lot of people because of "look how the Dunmer are treated in Windhelm, Ulfric's own city!" Well, my character is a refugee and escaped with Ralof, because it was the Imperials who ordered her to be beheaded simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time and was unaware of how bad the Dunmer are treated until she arrived in Windhelm for the first time. There's a Dunmer farmer (I forget his name) who argues if the Dunmer start being productive and stop sitting around feeling sorry for themselves, the Nords will come to respect them and treat them better. Also after hearing a drunken bigot like Rolff Stone-Fist complain about Dunmer not siding with the Stormcloaks, she realizes respect is earned and not given, if the Dark Elves want to be accepted by Skyrim's Nords, they will have to earn it by fighting for Skyrim. And as pointed out in this video, the Dunmer and Altmer hate each other. Rolff's beliefs that the Dunmer are in league with the Thalmor may be baseless to anyone who isn't him, but they still have to show people like him otherwise. Once the war is over, my character will use their status as a dragonborn and as a high-ranking officer in the Stormcloak army to leverage better treatment for the Dark Elves. And also make the argument: "Who did more Skyrim's freedom? Me, a Dark Elf who fought dragons, Imperials, and Thalmor, or Rolff, a petty drunk who stayed in Windhelm and talked shit about my people and the Argonians?"

"Elisif is a woman" is all the reason I needed to support the Stormcloaks. Good man. No but really, this is a great video.

As a redguard im choosing stormcloak once again. Been looking into alot of the lore based around the civil war and never knew the empire basically gave my homeland away to the elves (if im correct) so as a redguard why would I side with them? I always hated that bastard ancano and based on a rp perspective im the dragonborn so I can wipe out some thalmor no problem to assist the true sons of skyrim. Not too keen on the dominion yet but thats another topic. With the help of all the independent nations like hammerfell for example and the allies we made in solstheim I think skyrim will be in good hands with ulfric and the dragonborn at the helm.

Subscribed.

Old school Nords are about death before dishonor. Politics be damned..win or lose isnt their first goal..living and dying with honor is. Thats my guys. Good video.

I don't even drink. I'd love to have a beer with you bro. We are two dudes who love Boxing and Skyrim. Bet we could have endless conversations that no one would know what were talking about 😂

What bothers me about the Empire is it's army is massive yet it was destroyed by the Thalmor on their own land. You also have to worry about keeping the Oblivion gate closed because no one of Dragon blood has the amulet of kings. The Dragonborn will become the new Emperor likely and it'd like to have Ulfric as High King beside me. All of Skyrim will be with you.

Few things the NPCs always say. - But the gray quarter Its a place that refugees live. Altmer have integrated with the nords in Windhelm hell theres even a Hlaalu farm with Nord farm hands. -the Argonians live outside the walls. As opposed to living in Windhelm with the Dunmer after their nation had just attempted an invasion of Morrowind not 200 years ago? The Dunmer won't integrate with the Nords and they haven't had a war for over a standard Dunmer lifetime. What do you think they're going to do to the Argonians?

NordicWarriorGaming. Is it daytime where you are, can we talk?

“A woman should never be in charge of a country” incredibly based sir

Most imperials say the stormcloaks are Nazies, i don't know but fighting for independence doesn't seem racist to me but stoping people from warshiping there religion and destroying there culture because it is "not Civilised" doesn't put them in the best position to say that

Correct me if I'm wrong... but From what I've heard the thalmor only managed to defeat the empire because it was a surprise attack... The empire wasn't expecting a invasion at that point in time... Whatever the thalmor try this time it'll have to be something different because that won't work this time... Which is why they want the war to go on as long as it can... They know they don't have enough bodies to fight anybody... Maybe they could fight the empire I doubt even that... But if they get their enemies to fight each other then they could pick off the "victor" or more accurately the side that lost less

13:36 say sike right now

The Empire tried to take my head. Well then, they fucked around and they found out. No other reason needed, never liked Ulfric and he is a dick, but he didn't try to kill me. Galmar, yeah I'd take him out though

Even without Skyrim, the Empire would still have plenty of Nords to support and fight for it. Sounds crazy, I know, but just hear me out.. During the American revolution, the attitude that the colonists had regarding the war was nearly even. 1/3 supported gaining independence. 1/3 remained loyal to the crown. While the remaining third were neutral, not caring one way or the other. After the war, those loyal to Great Britain fled and went to places still part of the empire: Canada, the Bahamas, etc. In Skyrim, it would essentially be the same. Half the population supported the Stormcloaks, while the other half remained loyal to the Empire. In the event of a Stormcloak victory, there would be a mass exodus of Nords loyal to the Empire. We’re talking thousands upon thousands- if not more! These Nords would naturally resent the Stormcloaks, but they’d especially hate the Thalmor, who were arguably the root of their troubles. Meaning that even though the Empire loses Skyrim, they at least have an entire population of Nords fanatical and out for blood to fight for them. So in the long run, the Thalmor would be encircled by enemies: Skyrim, Hammerfell, and, of course, what’s left of the Empire. In short, they’re screwed.

13:33 unfathomably based

NordicWarriorGaming. This is a shot in the dark, but do you like Mortal Kombat?

the argument of his challenge to toryg , ulfric formally challenged toryg and toryg accepted, using the ancient nord hero thuum which is ulfrics own spirits vital essence, which in a nordic custom is not cheating to me, he defeats toryg, this is fair to me by skyrim law, but if it wasnt, i argue that the laws needed to be broken, under toryg and the new thalmor\empire conglomerate empire , countless nord families are being destroyed and brutally murdered simply for being nords and worshipping talos, both for their religion and race, because talos worship is the nord way, nord tradition, if you want to follow in your nord ancestors you worship talos, being subject to imprisonment torture and execution , empire loyalists expect me to allow my families to be killed and have faith they will betray their masters one day? empire loyalists argue that the stormcloaks help the thalmor by taking out the empire, because the thalmor will now only have to deal with the stormcloaks, but i could argue the very same thing 1000 years earlier that the empire shouldnt be fighting the aldmeri dominion because the other two factions will gain from that and become too strong from that, its the same reasoning, and it proves the empire loyalists hypocrites. the empire loyalist will suggest a solution that we accept the thalmor empire watch our families die, hope the empire will betray their masters one day . i say, with the spirit of skyrim, i do not need a lesser tyranny to take out a greater tyranny for me, skyrim belongs to the nords, with righteous claim for we the brave spirit of skyrim if we find our selves without allies without the empire against the thalmor alone in this fight, it will not stop me. a stormcloak skyrim is a greater nation of righteous rule, we will not dip our tongues in honey drink milk and lick the behind of a weaker empire of tyranny for its help. alone or together i fight for the families and freedom skyrim and her people .

Ulfric is like Trump.

1:50 Talos is a more central deity to the Imperials than he'll ever be to the Nords. Nords even refused to attend Chapel Sermons in his Great Cathedral in Bruma, refused to worship him alltogether, until sometime in the Fourth Era when they converted. 7:09 Actually, that's exactly what the Dossier states, at least, up until the Markarth Incident, when he became uncooperative as a result of his arrest. 8:27 Empire supporters are fully aware that the Civil War benefits the Thalmor... Ulfric and his men are ignorant of it. 9:50 It's canon that the Empire was only able to survive the Great War because of the Concordat - Hammerfell's survival is no different. The Dominion no longer had a motivation to conquer Hammerfell when it made peace with the Empire. 10:16 The Empire is what keeps the Dominion out of Skyrim - because without the Empire, Skyrim would be invaded by the Dominion, sooner or later. Being unable to tell the Dominion apart from the Thalmor says more about you than them. 10:50 Remember how that same dossier literally states an Imperial victory harms the Thalmor? 12:12 The Justiciars do not have the legal authority to do whatever they want, just because they do does not prove they have the legal authority. 16:01 Impossible? Winterhold, Eastmarch, and the Rift are all Stormcloak territory, how exactly does a Stormcloak victory make these things impossible? It does not. 17:50 Factually incorrect. When Titus Mede finally took the throne, the Empire consisted of little more than Skyrim and 7/9th of Cyrodiil... They only lost Valenwood due to a coup while the Empire was still recovering from the aftermath of the Oblivion Crisis. They reclaimed Hammerfell, High Rock, Elsweyr, Leyawiin and Bravil. Only losing Elsweyr due to the Void Nights and Hammerfell due to the Concordat... Which only had to be signed because the Empire had been involved in many wars just before the Great War broke out, alongside several other factors. 19:28 Hammerfell acknowledges that the Empire is needed to truly defeat the Dominion, they won't back the Stormcloaks unless the Empire does. The Redoran don't care for either party, Empire or Dominion, so I strongly doubt they'd get involved. All in all, the arguments are rather poor, Skyrim-centered, and short-sighted. It doesn't matter if Skyrim has its freedom when that freedom will be removed due to the Empire failing to beat the Dominion in the next war. The Stormcloaks struggle against the Empire's worst... That should say something. The Empire is the only chance to beat the Dominion.

Bathesda may be good for making shit games nowadays but they literally cooked up a storm of great writing with the Stormcloak rebellion. One and a half decade in people are still torn between the two.

Considering how many kings have caused a lot of problems and pretty sure we women can take care of a country a lot better Lol.

The Empire has lost it's leadership, it's founding principle, and most of it's land and elite forces. It is a hollow, broken shell, and there is not even the Akatosh covenant anymore to give it legitimacy. Even if they crush the Stormcloak rebellion, Skyrim will be an occupied province at best, the trust of the Nords and Redguards is irreperably damaged. High rock is the only somewhat stable province left, and I'm sure the Breton kingdoms would rather ally with an independant Skyrim and Hammerfell, if they are isolated from an already weak and politically subjugated Cyrrodil. Heck, even the former Imperial heartlands would be better off in the next war if they let their provinces become independent, and just enter a coalition against the Aldmeri threat. Trying to keep together the Empire would just expend the last strength of men on trying to heal something that is already dead. A quick Stormcloak victory is the best path to the survival of men and their homelands, the preservation of Talos, liberation for Elsweyr and Valenwood, and even preventing the unmaking of mundus itsself.

We have to admit the Thalmor are pretty smart. I think they honestly knew they couldn't beat the empire outright and so demanded hammerfell and banning of Talos to ostracize the redguards and nords from the empire, the two human races that hate elves the most (redguards hate elves cause of the sinestral elves) and are the greatest human warriors. With the loss of these two provinces the empire is a shadow of it's former self. But i disagree with Galmar, i think the septim empire died with Martin Septim, and is know the cyrodillic empire not fit to represent all men in tamriel.

Yikes about that sexist comment bruh 😅.. 13:52

Edit here... I enjoy rolling in Skyrim as a vamp, love the DLC and all. That being said. Try playing as a High Elf who Hates the Thalmor. A High Elf vamp lord making trouble for the Empire. Is fun.. and yeah, Wow.. got a vid where someone knows what's going on in Skyrim! Sub and Like

NordicWarriorGaming. What level does your speech need to be at, to convince Balgruf to side with Ulfric Stormcloak?

If Hammerfell can defend against the Thalmor Skyrim can. Skyrim has such strong warriors they literally have erased an entire race, Skyrim is such a defendable country too, there's only 1 way in through the mountains. The Stormcloaks can literally 300 Leonidas that shit with Ulfrics shouts alone 😂. Empires rise and fall, eso shows us the empire was on its knees. It happens. In real world direct comparisons are America and British Empire, or Greeks and Egyptians, or Roman Empire and Barbaric Germanians. Am important factor I see, is Ulfric is like Trump. Yes. Trump. The people used to hate it, but now we need him.

It dose say that a stormcloak victory is to be avoided it also says that a imperial victory would harm there position in skyrim greatly something that was failed to be mentioned

MotherF'er, not everyone has to join the stormcloaks

Because Skyrim belongs to the Nords.

I say give markarth to forsworn for help against thalmor those guys are pretty tough

The empire is the last thing left that the Nords have of Talos, to turn their backs on the empire that Talos founded before ascending to godhood, is to turn their back on Talos himself! Tiber septim would not have wanted this, he was a warrior and a strategist himself who possessed great power, but power alone doesn’t found the empire, and unite all of mankind under one banner, smart thinking, pivotal advice from intellectual people, guidance from those who seek and don’t seek what you desire, are all important parts of what made Tiber septim who he was, and that’s what the Nords of Skyrim aren’t understanding. The Empire is doing what they have to do to rebuild their forces and make adjustments so that they can take up arms to achieve victory, they were very close the first time, and now the dominion are comfortable, they are under the impression that they have everything in the bag, and are banking on the Empire and Rebellion alike being severely weakened, in order for them to achieve victory and gain ultimate control over Tamriel, however the empire know this, and are laying low and rebuilding, and remodelling their military to eradicate the Thalmor, it’s likely that the Thalmor are too powerful to be bested by the stormcloaks, and are merely using them to weaken the empire, however what they can’t have is an empire at full capacity, which is why elenwen went to helgen to attempt to intervene in keeping ulfrics head off the block, if she feared the rebellion, she’d have let him die, what she was fearing was having no gators that are the stormcloaks at the river shore slowly eating away at the land habitants that are the empire , as without this, the empire can slowly become and/or surpass, the superpower that nearly defeated the dominion in the first war, and the terms of the white gold agreement, as stated by the imperial legion to the player, is nothing more than a temporary strategic yield, to keep the Dominion comfortable and happy where they are in the summeset isle, where their prying eyes can’t see all of what’s going on in Cyrodiil. Lastly, Ulfric is no king, he’s a coward, he murdered someone who admired and looked up to him, challenged him to a battle he knew he’d easily win and still used the ancient power of the thuum to mangle torrygg before ending his life, worse off Torygg was under the assumption Ulfric was arriving to suggest a moot or make his case again for Skyrim to deviate from the empire and become independant, to which the woman who raised Torygg, and was the blue palaces Court wizard, said Torygg would’ve likely agreed with. But no, kill someone who’s basically a child to you, In his early 20’s while you’re a 54 year old war hero, wielding second to none skills in warfare among nords and possessing a power that no other living man asides from the Dragonborn hero and the greybeards have access to, doesn’t seem very honourable to me, if anything, Torygg died with honour, he was a true Nord in this scenario, he knew he was f**ked, and still agreed to fight, and ended up being killed, when not all duels had to end in death, and it’s likely that had he been spared, he’d have happily stepped down as high king , that would’ve been ulfrics rightful claim to the throne, a fair contest between two men’s sword arms, both live to see the next moot and in consideration of the duel, and what it was being fought for, the jarls would likely have all agreed to have Ulfric sat on the high kings throne, but his sadistic killling of An inexperienced king, who was no warrior, who was sat on the throne by way of circumstance, at the forefront of an issue bigger than what he was equipped or experienced enough to deal with as a man in his early 20’s, shows a lot about Ulfric, this was a power hungry move.

I believe the dark elves would remain neutral should another war come to pass

I never bought the whole 'Skyrim needs the Empire against the Thalmor!' Nords conquered much of Tamriel before and there's no reason to believe they were any stronger back then than they are now. Proof of their strength and of an independent' Skyrim's ability to fend for itself would be the Stormcloaks kicking the Empire out of Skyrim.

The Stormcloaks have the right idea, wrong leader. The Imperials have entirely erased their old pantheon and culture, so Skyrim should try to regain its old pantheon of Shor. Ulfric isn’t worthy of the title of High King because he misused the voice. Regardless of the trial by combat was fair, the voice isn’t supposed to be used for that. He lost any claim to the throne after abusing the voice like that and disrespecting the old nordic culture.

Skyrim is for the nords!

Nordic warrior gaming. Please let me know if you get this comment. I am VERY interested to talk to a fellow Stormcloak enthusiast.

Based! Chad shout your enemies to death and take pride in your people enjoyer.

the empire is rome and rome needs to make a comeback.

1776

I get what you say is truth but what is also truth however is as you say as well is a divide group of men being the stormcloaks and the empire is too easy for the thamor to do whatever they want too

Part of the white gold concordat was that the dominion agents, the thalmor, can patroll the lands of the empire and have embassies to make sure the citizens of the empire are following the treaty. The imperial quote on saying that the empire is the only thing keeping the DOMINION out of Skyrim is true. Because only the justiciar faction of the dominion are allowed to roam around as per the concordat but remember, the Dominion is High elves, wood elves and khajiit, the latter two are not apart of the thalmor organization and are not roaming freely through Skyrim. And ive always seen this reference to mean the armies of the dominion since Skyrim is technically breaking the treaty by openly worshipping talos. Of course it plays in the dominions hands nonetheless by creating instability in the region of Skyrim and Tulius remarks at the end of the war, if you side with the stormcloaks is true, that this is exactly what they wanted. I still think the empire is the right choice in winning the civil war because it keeps a unified empire rather than a fractured one, whos to say the bretons of high rock would stay united to cyrodiil if Skyrim gains its freedom under ulfric? The redguard are already dealing with their own civil war politics since some are deciding to make and keep peace with the dominion rather than keeping the fight going after they regroup (since they made their own treaty with the dominion)

obviously theres some benefits to the stormcloaks winning, i dont think they outweight the loses but if in theory, the stormcloaks do win WITHOUT ulfric as a leader i think it would be better than the empire not just for skyrim but for everyone, this is not what happens sadly. to counter the points in here 1. In defense of ulfric, he is an unwilling asset and too stupid to realize this. 2. Yes the empire is giving the thalmor diplomatic immunity and yes they are allowed to walk in, however what the imperial soldiers are talking about is that the thalmor are not allowed to deploy their army across skyrim and cyrodil. They have their small squads and officers around to "enforce the treaty" but the empire would not allow them to just deploy troops(like on valenwood) on a territory they own and I think the thalmor know this even if the empire didnt tell them. 3. Elisif is probably not going to be in power, realistically. Just like how she is easy to manipulate by her court and could be manipulated by the thalmor she is just as easy to manipulate once theres no thalmor so shes just a puppet to however is in control. This point kinda goes both ways. 4. From a skyrim alone and on a short term point of view the stormcloaks winning is the logical choice, however the empire losing skyrim means that even if the nords are able to fend off the thalmor, the empire would be too weak and would lose a whole region worth of resources and support(troops, minerals for armor, etc). This would make the empire's defeat certain since they basically have no other region to help them. Hammerfell is not only independant(they support the empire, kinda, but broke off to not be forced intro the treaty) but also under siege by the thalmor if the war begins again so theres no support from them, the cats and wood elves are basically with the thalmor, the dark elves are in a really bad spot and even if they wanted to they wouldnt be of much help(red mountain cataclysm). That leaves cyrodil and skyrim but because of the above skyrim would very likely not help and cyrodil alone is not going to hold off the thalmor with at least valenwood's support after they lost some resources in skyrim. Skyrim or hammerfell, depends who is weakened the most would fall after cyrodil unless the dragonborn becomes the second coming of pelinal.

At 4 1/2 mins in you admitted an unforgivable mistake. Applying your own experience in real world politics to skyrim. You could apply real world politics of roman times and viking era to this in gane situation and it makes alot more sense and sets the points of view to a more accurate way of looking at why the stormcloaks are fighting a noble cause. At 13.50....oooooh. hahaha. Hey ok so you cant really believe a women cant run a country using your own real world political experience margaret thatcher for eg.....use viking era politics and then yeh you're joke actually was a thing in that time and european culture. It had valid reasons in the way they lived and had to survive

I think a cool story would be that stormcloaks win the civil war, go fight the thalmor alone, lose, die, but even if the thalmor predicted it they underestimate the nordics and get out of these war so weaken that the other army of tamriel can take down the thalmor easily, and Ulfric and the nordics sacrifices would be remember by a lot of memorials in all of Tamriel...

Nah Fam. I'm always Team Imperial

Nice try Nordic warrior

StormCUCKS must NOT win.

I think the stormcloacks are just dumb, their supporters are just dumb, their leader is the the dumbest, yeah I totally agree they're right they have their reasons and the empire isn't the same but everytime I side with they I feel guilty and regret my decision EVERY npc (besides graymane) in every city complains about them and how they miss the empire, the imperials have their flaws but at least I feel things go a slight better with them in charge specially for Tullius he's a amazing leader