I love what you said about how the Mary Sue isn't just a *character* problem, it's a *story* problem. I think that really hits the nail on the head. Great video! :)

Very well done

This was a very well thought out essay, and it actually added something to the discussion; good on you! On another note, I don’t agree that the antagonist having sue traits like being overpowered always improves tension in a story. In some cases making the antagonist too capable makes the story boring in its own way, because the heroes efforts will mean nothing until the plot cheats to let them win. Off the top of my head such antagonists include the super Predator from Predator 2019, Ghidorah from GODZILLA Planet Eater, and Yhwach from Bleach.

Kirito is a mary sue. Hes selfish and bland and still gets unconditional love from nearly the entire cast. Hes basically treated as a god and the story mainly flows around him. He hardly ever struggles with monsters or other players....EVER.

Interesting. The term seems to have exploded into the main stream since The Force Awakens, and that probably accounts for a fair number of people not fully grasping the definition. I love the section where you mention the power of the character shows the tension to be an illusion. I don't know how this video ended up in my recommendation list, but good work. :)

Antagonist can't be mary sue Aizen Sosuke and Madara Uchiha: "Everything goes as i planned to be"

This is one of the most interesting videos I've seen in a while, you raise a lot of points about this subject that I hadn't before considered. This video is honestly better than the majority of video essays I've seen from channels with hundreds of thousands of subs. You have earned a new sub. Great stuff my man

1. Author/insert are the key factor of writing a Mary Sue. You don't write crap unintentionally. Where else would the Mary Sue come from, unless the author then has to explain it's existence in lore or some reveal later on. 2. The Everyman cannot be a Mary Sue. Those two character roles cannot exist in the same character. You cannot be all powerful, perfect, virtuous, etc., and be the Everyman. 3:50 "An ideal Mary Sue is going to be motivated by what the story believes is the right thing, not by what they believe is the right thing. And they will make decisions off that motivation without question or second thought." Sounds like you agree with Mary Sue's are, in fact, an author/insert.

I think a lot of people tend to confuse Mary Sue's with flat/static characters like Superman, Goku, Sonic the Hedgehog, etc. Many people tend to incorrectly believe that for a character to be good, they have to change on a fundamental level. And while characters like these are needed for story to be good, this dynamic trait is not necessarily needed for a CHARACTER to be good. As a matter of fact, for dynamic characters to work, there must also be static ones. Wear a dynamic character's impact comes from seeing the change within themselves,static characters are the ones who incite change onto others. And therein lies the problem. Characters like Rey are very clearly flat characters. They learn literally nothing by the end of the story, and their philosophy stays essentially the same, but they're being forced into a dynamic character role. in this particular case, the hero's journey. You can't do that. The hero's journey format necessitates change in the character in question by the end be it positive or negative. This change is often incited by static characters. If the character exits this cycle the exact same way they left it, then your story is meaningless. Luke changed as a person on a fundamental level by the end of not just the first movie, but the entire trilogy. Even Anakin, while undoubtedly being a sue in EP 1, eventually fulfilled that character ark, just a negative one instead of a positive one. Rey is forced into a situation where she needs an Arc to be interesting, and isn't given one. Had Rey been some kind of mentor figure to some other character, nothing would have been wrong with her.

A lot of good points here, though I am uncertain on the idea that a villain can’t be a Mary Sue. True, a Mary Sue is almost always the protagonist, but I believe that an antagonist could still be poorly written to the point that he/she bends the story around him/herself and sucks life out of the characters. In this scenario, they could destroy story tension by making the audience question why in the world they haven’t already won. But what a everyone else’s thought on the matter?

Woah, this puts things into a better perspective!!! 👏👏👏

I'd like to thank you for being the first time I am introduced to OPM and got any interest in the anime. It was fun and the season 1 song is just top notch.

Thank you for reminding me of how bad Ready Player One the book was.

I don't get how batman and luke could be mary sues... they fail regularly and they had to train to get to where they are...

underrated Video! short and accurate

Isn’t Luke antagonistic to Rey in The Last Jedi? You say that respectable characters all will like that character, but the most loved character of Star Wars is upset that she’s there, afraid of her, and never allowed her what she wanted. That’s why her character development really mattered in that film. And in the movie, she had her dreams of her family destroyed, and failed to receive the proper training she was hoping for. That’s why later in the film, she struggled much more than Kylo in the throne room fight. You may call her a Mary Sue inTFA, but that is certainly not the case in Rian Johnson’s film. He was stuck with her abilities from the last film though, so she had to remain powerful.

So I'm a boomer I guess and genuinely didn't know what a marry sue was, Found this by chance and holy crap I'm shocked this doesn't have more views. Really good video and I had fun watching. ♪

Rey is like that Minecraft Kid that gets OP stuff in creative and puts it back on survival

I think a nice example of a character that would have been a Mary Sue if writter in a different context is Bruce Banner's Hulk (hear me out). The Hulk is written as a nearly invulnerable force, that's incredibly large, has inconsistent super strenght, has good speed, and an incredible leaping ability. The reason he's not a Mary Sue is because the character Bruce doesn't like the Hulk and has little-to-no control over when he turns into the Hulk. His anger gives him the mentality of a raging child, which allows opponents to outsmart him. Also, his transformation makes him HATED, by society and sometimes his own allies. Despite being an unstoppable hero, the character and plot is written in such a way that Bruce Banner almost appears more vulnerable than he does unstoppable.

he tells us what it means at 3:20 your welcome

back then when star wars 7 came out, I'm trully believed that finn was the main character

Funny thing is, i had never even heard of the term “Mary Sue” until people started labeling Rey from Star Wars as such. So i finally decided to look it up and here i am. Thanks for such a detailed explanation with plenty of examples to support your points.

wow you got it spot on O.O !applouze!

I think the point where the trope is allowed to slide the most is comedy, where the character is intended to mock something.

What also separates Luke from rey sue is Luke still needs help from others. He wouldn’t have survived without the help of Obi-Wan, R2, and Han. While rey just solos everything and everyone else are reduced to npc status.

I love how I was watching a Star Wars video and I saw a comment saying “Mary sue” so I searched it up and first thing that pop up is starwars

Lol the idea that anyone would call Tony Stark a Mary Sue is hilarious.

At first I thought my OC was a Mary Sue but the more I think about it, it’s not a Mary Sue because she’s not the center of the universe, and she gets helped by the rest of the characters in the story and overall in my opinion I made an interesting story and made my character interesting and well thought out without worrying about it being a Mary Sue cuz I could care less so it’s funny how people who tried to not make Mary Sues ended up making Anti Sues cuz she was still at the center of the universe but I didn’t care and still don’t care cuz all I want is to write a character and write a story that I like and ended up not making a Mary Sue since she’s not at the center of the universe

Thank you!!!

Do you have the episode of the dishonored wolf podcast where the bilbo meme originated

Thanks!

Is there a *special* place in Hell for the person who created the Mary sue? I mean if the MC succeeds at something, even though they still struggled some one who doesn't understand what it means says thier a Mary sue . But nobody wants to read where the MC struggles with *EVERYTHING.* 🙄

As a Star Wars fan, I have no interest in the Disney films, though I did watch The Force Awakens once, to my dismay. I find it odd that anyone could consider Rey a "protagonist"! Rey is one of the most unpleasant, unlikeable, contemptible characters I've ever seen on screen, clearly intended as a villain. Claims that she is a "Mary Sue" make no sense to me. As for this video, a bit of feedback... Overall this was well put-together and very insightful. Though I did find the video confusing at times. Sometimes the visuals perfectly illustrated what was being said at that moment, but this made it confusing when they didn't. One example was when Wesley Crusher appeared. At first it seemed like you were talking about him, but then I guess you weren't (?) So I felt like there needed to be a stronger connection between script and visuals, so everyone is on the same page. Also, the sudden appearance of large chunks of text on screen add additional confusion, when the video itself is confusing enough. Plus my unfamiliarity with (possibly obscure) Japanese manga added even more confusion. I like to know what it is I'm looking at. Perhaps when writing future scripts, you could be more mindful of what you're planning to show on screen, and link the script more tightly with that? Also, perhaps there could be a little more breathing room or punctuation between topics/items. Especially with all the other titles flashing up, the distinction between key points didn't always feel strong enough IMHO. Thanks! :-)

I don’t get how people totally ignore Batman being a Mary sue People find him attractive He is filthy rich A hero Is able to take down very strong enemies despite just being a human Super smart Don’t even get me started on the Batman who laughs

Ur describing the flat character arc, right? At least, I think that can play a big role in some characters close to being a Mary Sue, but not being one. Take Mary Poppins: the premise revolves around who and what she affects- like ur Mary Sue side character point, she and them are called impact characters, and a character with a flat character arc is essentially the impact character made into the protagonist.

I have a question. I made this character a while ago (a year ago is when I first started writing) and since then, a lot has changed. I told my friend about this character, and they said he was a Mary sue. But by the definition of this video, I wouldn't say so. What do you think? Context: my character has very strong powers, such as teleportation, can go through objects, shadow magic, etc. Sometimes, every few months or so, he randomly teleports to a different universe as part of a curse that he has to break. Everywhere he goes, he's hated and attacked by people who either want the power or want to exterminate it.

2023, and people still are calling Luke a Mary Sue and Anakin...

So is Shuri in Wakanda forever a Mary sue?

This really makes me think about Danganronpa’s Kaede Akamatsu. (SPOILERS) I’m confident that she has Mary Sue potential and would’ve been a Mary Sue if she survived past the first trial. Her backstory was basically how great she was at her talent, her interactions with the characters were either made Kaede look like the one in the right or involves her easily making friends, and everyone practically flocks to her. Everything was fixed when Shuichi became the 2nd Protag after Kaede died. So it frustrates me when Fans say that Shuichi should’ve died instead of their perfect goddess when if that were the case, she’d most likely be the most hated DR protag.

Not bad video man. Definitely Superman and Batman are not Mary Sues or Gary Stu’s Superman has deal with the burden of his powers. That he could save anyone, yet he’s only one person. Who’s lost his home planet Krypton. Batman a character who was never same his parents pass away in crime alley. I was trying to make sure no one else suffers like he did. Yeah even in his struggle against crime he gets hurt loses people. Well Rey on the other hand who does lose anything and gets leftovers on a platter. She earns nothing. I think only criticism have the video is some of the editing good been done better. When you refer to Male Sue you call it Gary Stu. You can hit me up on EFAP discord anytime as well.

“I’m Mary poppins y’all” -Yondu

The way i see the term Villain Sue is to make villain so overpowered that who defeats heroes easily at every turn and can only lose not by hero's efforts but because plot says so. Or that villain loses but it was what he planned that leads him to victory. Just look at Aizen from Bleach.

While I’m sure there’s a great essay here mechanically, it’s pretty disjunct with all the examples you give and bouncing around from topic to topic and character to character. It’s not terrible, though, it just could use some work, like focusing on a singular definition or common characteristics of Mary Sue characters found around all types of media and then focus on specific examples. It seemed like you wanted to talk about Rey being one more than anything, but that focus becomes muddled through the rest of the video. It’s definitely one of the better ones I’ve just so happened to have in my feed, though. Good work.

Yeah.

When people are complaining Saitama's OP as a mary sue, just remember he is like King Midas, whos everything he touches turns to gold, it didnt become a mary sue trait, but rather it became the conflict or the obstacle they must overcome Same as Saitama, his strenght is his biggest flaw, remember in the 1ep, when there is a climatic battle between him and monsters from underground? Thats what he wants but instead he woke up and beat them all effortlessly. A blessing/curse

Literally marinette 😩

More people need to see this

Well saitama not being a Mary Sue is true the show opens a whole new problem altogether and that is demoralizing the power of the bad guys as most of these bad guys are build up only to be squashed which throws away all the feeling you would get from other shows kind of like a poison that ruins it for the rest I still have not been able to watch the series entirely because I would like to hold on to that fear of a standard bad guy or villain that deserves a good fight for its buildup

Ruth Langmore from OZARK

star trek discovery Captain Burnham

Very very well done. I have researched this TO DEATH and this is to me hands down the best explanation of the "mary sue" I have heard. It's so clear. It's not necessarily the character themselves but the side characters actions and how they are sidelined that is so frustrating (as a female especially) to watch. I am a huge Star Wars fan and I just don't care about Rey. Now I think I know why. Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is my favorite character from the sequel trilogy and of course Luke Skywalker from the original. I have no real favorite from the prequels as I have blocked them from my memory 🤪 Thank you!!

I don’t even really have a problem with Rey being overpowered, it’s just more that’s she’s so emotionless and stoic all the time, she’s not relatable in any way, she’s not even a real person. She’s just really unlikable.

What would have taken away Rey's Mary Sue label? Her being a clone of a dark sider. Like Darth Rey from Rise of Skywalker. By having Rey be a clone you're doing 3 things: give Rey a internal conflict (dealing with being a clone) , a external conflict (confronting her Darth Rey template), and a goal to overcome it (dealing with can Rey be good or evil by choice, not design). Darth Rey got her status and power because she was trained by Snoke, therefore her clone was equally be as strong. Problem solved. As for villains being Sues: Joker from DC is considered this by many a fan. Joker is just a non powered person that does incredibly bullshit things, like Jokerizing the Justice League from time to time. Even Darkseid isn't labeled a Villain Sue when Joker is labeled one. That's how I would have done Rey: make her a clone and have the real Rey be a Darksider trained and raised by Snoke.

Althiugh Saitama isn't a Mary Sue I think Garou oddly enough is...

It's not only power....Mary Sues do not fail, they're always right they're always moral...Saitama fails...it's still a character trope....

main characters are Mary/Gary in some sense. Rey's Problem is bad writing. Reason why some Gary might not get called out is because most are in a story that are we are learning about, belief of what we can expect is the most open. With originals & prequels, fans have a firm grasp of how the story goes and if Anakin, the Chosen ONE had training, it kinda implies everyone needs training and can't just pull powers out of their ass.

Sheppard from "Mass Effect" definitely is not a "Mary Sue", as there is a backstory leading to supposed perfection, besides don't forget about the option to pick renegade choices - hardly a perfect, flawless character.

She is strong wuman.

Hm. This is factual.

There is two main view on the term mary sue -one is a very talented prodigy that can do no wrong in their field, this stance is devoid of negative connotation and taken mostly by those who deny the rise of "mary sue" character in this "sjw era" -the second is a reality warper that bend the established world and character around them, to make them look good even though they are undeserving, while noone but the reader is aware of it, not even the narration. It's the one that frustrate the audience and (in my opinion) is the true definition of a mary sue.

One puuuuuuuuuuuuuunch!!!!!!! 🥰🥰🥰

and the 'strong female character'

Rey is not a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is someone who never fails and always succeeds with NO effort, struggle or work. They never struggle to succeed and never experience physical or emotional pain. They have no flaws (internal and external) and therefore never change. First I will define what a ‘failure’ actually is. Simply: A failure is when an attempt at fulfilling a goal and succeed is not achieved. Failure does not require permanent, eternal consequences to be a ‘failure’. There are two types of failures; Internal and External. ⁃ Internal failures are when the failure has a negative internal, emotional, psychological, spiritual and/or mental effect. ⁃ External failures are when the failure has a negative external, physical, social and/or physiological effect. (If you’re aiming for an A in an exam and you only achieve a C, that’s a failure because you were attempting to achieve a goal that you did not. However, you still passed with a C, so there are no permanent, external consequences to this failure) Now here is a list of all the significant FAILURES of Rey. • Rey fails to see through Finn’s lie, unlike Han. This makes Rey look extremely naive and childish. When she is told, she is extremely shocked by this. • Rey is captured by Kylo Ren with ease. After running into the Takodana Forest, Rey is found by Ren is frozen in place. She is completely defenceless and is taken by Ren without putting up any sort of fight, other than her feeble attempts at shooting him. • Rey fails to bring Luke to the fight. Many people would say this isn’t a failure for Rey, because it was Luke’s choice to not join the fight however Rey still had a goal that she did not succeed at fulfilling. • Rey fails to resist the Darkside when she meditates with Luke, causing Luke to be even more reluctant and scared to train Rey. • Rey fails to resist the Darkside cave, causing her great distress and pain. • Rey is easily manipulated by Kylo Ren, causing her to empathise and, eventually, is convinced to try and save him. • Rey turns against Luke, hitting him in the back of the head and ignoring his plea for her not to go. • Rey fails to turn Ben Solo to the lightside, instead pushing him further into the Darkside. • Rey fails to stand a chance against Snoke and gets thrown around with the Force and mind raped, causing her great physical and mental pain and suffering. • Rey fails to pull her lightsaber, from Kylo, to her, causing it to split it two instead. • Rey fails to connect to the cosmic force and the Jedi Of The Past when she’s training with Leia. • Rey gives into the Darkside when training against the training remote and gives into her anger, triggering a vision that causes her great distress and confusion. • Rey allows Ren to snatch her necklace from her, allowing the First Order to find them. • Rey gives into her darkness and anger when trying to pull the transport, causing her to conjure force lightning, destroying the transport she was trying to save. • Rey believed she had killed Chewie, causing her great pain and suffering. • Rey failed to retrieve the Wayfinder and allowed Ren to destroy it. • Rey gave into the Darkside when confronted with Ren on the Death Star Wreckage, striking at a defenceless and unarmed man. • Rey was defeated by Ren in their duel on the Death Star Wreckage. • Rey gave into the Darkside when Ren dropped his lightsaber, catching it and stabbing an unarmed, grieving man with his own weapon. • Rey exiles herself, out of fear and despair, to Ahch-To. • Rey is manipulated by Palpatine and, out of an unhealthy flaw/lack of self value agreed to the ritual, to become the Sith Empress, as she believes becoming the Sith Empress will give her the self value she lacks. Rey does have flaws. She fails due to these flaws and, when she does succeed, struggles to succeed. She has internal struggles with her own self love, or lack there of, which causes her great, constant chronic emotional, internal pain. Due to her abandonment, Rey has no internalised self worth. She hates herself but she doesn’t know why. She has a constant, chronic pain within her, a hole in her heart, because she doesn’t love herself. Because of this lack of self love and value, Rey believes the only way to be of value is to be valued by other people. She believes that she is only worth something if other people think she is. Rey is always doing things to please others, to gain people’s love, respect, admiration and appreciation in an effort to gain the worth and value that she lacks from herself. This is the lie Rey believes. Rey believes that her worth comes from others and comes from giving to others. Whilst giving to others is good, it should not be the source of your self worth. You shouldn’t have to be of worth to others, to be of worth to yourself. The truth is that Rey’s worth and value (as everyone’s value is) has to come from within. Rey cannot be given value by others. Rey has to give value, worth and love to herself, to truly be happy, balanced and whole. Rey learned this truth when Palpatine tells her that she is to strike him down and “pledge herself as a Sith.” Palpatine tells her that the only way that she can find self value is by becoming the Sith Empress. Rey agreed to this lie but when Ben Solo returns to her, the truth literally looks her dead in the eyes. Ben came back for her. This showed Rey the truth. The truth that Rey is valuable and loved, just as she is. This allows Rey to refuse the Sith ritual. She also has this truth further confirmed to her by the Jedi and/or the cosmic force itself when she calls “Be with me.”. She is told that she isn’t alone, that she is strong, brave, worthy and deserves to be. This gives Rey the strength to rise. Not only were the Jedi giving Rey physical strength and power but they were giving her spiritual, emotional and mental strength. They convinced her to refuse the lie that she had believed all her life, that she was nothing and had to be given value from others, and to accept the truth, that Rey is a good person. Rey fails all the time, she trains in TLJ for 2 weeks with Luke and the Jedi Texts and she trains for almost 2 years in between TLJ and TRoS. Rey struggles and has flaws. She isn’t a Mary Sue. She simply is not. She has a very interesting, deep and complex arc that is as dynamic as it can be. She has literally no self worth, to the point where she is constantly selfless (too much so) causing her more harm than good. She also always seeks validation, approval and appreciation from others to accept and give herself value, which she must, and does, learn to overcome through the trilogy. She fails all the time. She loses to Luke (she does), she loses to Snoke and is thrown around like a rag doll and then has her mind raped as she screams in agony, she is at the mercy of Kylo Ren in TLJ and is saved by him (Mary Shes don’t need saving), she loses to Kylo Ren in TRoS and is disarmed and on the floor defenceless. Characters don’t automatically like her, either, which is another invalid criticism of Rey. Luke didn’t like her. Poe doesn’t like her. Han didn’t automatically like her until she proved herself to him. She’s not good at everything and what she is good at has reasons. He primary character flaw, that drives her character arc is the Rey is self hating. She is a scavenger by choice. Nobody who has any self worth becomes a slave by choice buddy. She constantly looks for appreciation and approval in people, even at her own expense. JJ abrams said this directly when talking about Rey. She looks for it in Han, in Luke, in Leia, in Ben Solo and finally learns to get it from herself and the Jedi. She’s also has to learn from mentors and her failures. She ignored Luke and went to save Ben Solo and kill Snoke and end the war. She was wrong. She got mind raped, beaten up, had her lightsaber torn in two and pushed Kylo Ren further into the Darkside. She also tried to exile herself on Ahch To. She also has motivations, which Mary Sue’s don’t have. She wants belonging, she wants to love herself and stop feeling constant self-loathing, she wants to learn how to stop being overly selfless, at her own expense, she wants understanding of herself and the force and she believes in the fight and war. Rey weaknesses that give her the motivation to solve them and which cause her to fail, which forces her to learn and grow through her character arc. Rey has explanations for her abilities and power levels, that do not break the lore or “bend the universe” to make her “perfect”. She isn’t.

You are missing copycat ! A OP character who took others achievements and power in a disrespectful manner . Second belittling every other side characters as dumb and powerless .

Captain America is not a Mary Sue (and Superman and Batman aren't either) because they have enemys as strong as them

Just finished the video and, unfortunately, you have actually not provided a single argument for why Rey is a Mary Sue. It’s a lot of talking, without saying anything.

Side characters can be Mary Sues but ok pop off

This sounds exactly like Dante from Devil May Cry and, on occasion, Link from Zelda. But they are labeled gaming icons. Even if Rey was a student of Luke’s, she would still be labeled a Mary Sue out of spite. I’ve even heard WONDER WOMAN be called a Mary Sue! But guys like Captain America and Aragorn aren’t Gary Stus? Also notice how it’s women that are labeled and men are questioned on it. I highly doubt Rey would be hated if she was Roy. I did mention Captain America and Dante intentionally. And piss off with that “potential Sue!” bs. I notice you mentioned the men with this. Women are branded because they are usually a sidekick or prize for the guy. You either are or aren’t a Sue/Stu. I label a Sue/Stu as someone who has all the power, the skill, but none of the explanation. They need to have one (regardless of how bad it is) to show they aren’t. Brovo for using someone not named Ripley or Sarah Connor as a not-Sue.

How starwars ep 7 should have ended, rey dies

Rey is super interesting. The main criticism about The Last Jedi is how it DOESN’T spend enough time with Rey, Luke and Kylo’s stories. We have the Canto Bight, Finn, Rose, Poe and Holdo stories too.

The Sequel trilogy were some of the worst movies ever created

6:15 There's a reason the term 'Villain Sue' exists. Like Aizen from Bleach. And this is a problem because it can make their defeat feel artificial rather than a natural result of the character's own flaws and obsessions. Ainz from Overlord gained all of his power off screen. Sure it was in a video game, but we have to be TOLD about the way he carefully built up his character. And we get ONLY one brief flashback only to show he wasn't invincible when going up against other player character. Ainz intellectually is SHOWN by the writer to be intelligent, pragmatic, and logical. The problem is that he's so powerful that these traits aren't truly tested with his raw power. It makes you feel far more sympathetic to the pathetic NPCs and level 20 or 30 heroes going up against these level 99 abominations. It BURNS YOU OUT.

It’s not a logical fallacy to point out the hypocrisy of thinking Rey is a Mary Sue, whilst Luke isn’t.

It’s a real shame because this video clearly took some work and you cared about it, but you’re so wrong about Rey, specifically. She isn’t a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue, simply put, ever fails, never experiences any hardship, pain or suffering (internal or external) and is wholly perfect. This does not fit Rey, at all.

Mary Sues do not fail, they never struggle at all (not only do they always succeed but they succeed with EASE), they do not have flaws and they are always perfect. Rey fails and has flaws. Rey struggles all the time. She struggles to pilot the Falcon, in her fight with Kylo, when mind-tricking the stormtrooper, when training with Luke, when resisting the Darkside cave, when confronting snoke (again, she is helpless), when fighting the Praetorian Guards, when pulling her Saber, when lifting the rocks (it takes her 2 minutes and clear effort to lift those rocks.), when training with Leia and training against the training remote droid, when she’s sinking in the sinking fields on Pasaana, when she tries to save Chewie (and fails), when she gives into the Darkside when trying to save chewie, when she’s confronted by Kylo Ren through the force bond on and over Kijimi, when she is climbing the wreckage of the Death Star II, when she fights her darkside self, when she fights Kylo Ren in the DSII (and fails miserably), when she gives into the Darkside and stabs a defenceless, unarmed and grieving Ben Solo, when she Exiles herself, when she confronts Palpatine and almost gives into the Sith Ritual (so she can both find some worth, that she lacks within, and because she has a weakness for the Darkside, whilst also wanting to selflessly (too selflessly) Saber her friends and family), when she has her life force drained from her, when she fights Palpatine and absorbs and then shoots his force lightning back at him, causing her to die. I’ll go into more detail on how Rey fails/struggles and how these failures/struggles are genuine failures/struggles that make Rey not a Mary Sue. Struggles First I will define and explain what ‘Struggling’ is. Struggling / A struggle is when a character has to put in and shows significant effort to achieve their goals. Here’s a list of all the STRUGGLES Rey goes through. • When flying the Falcon Rey has a hard time taking off and flying in the first place. “A bit hard without a co-pilot!” • Rey struggles to use the mindtrick, needing to try three times to succeed. • Rey struggles in her fight with Kylo Ren on Star-Killer Base. No, they forgot because of nostalgia. The prequels are still just as bad as they have been but kids, like yourself, can’t see past their rose tinted glasses of nostalgia. Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo and Luke all have full and developed arcs and character development. Rey has a huge amount of character development. Just look at the Saber to see it, even if you won’t be able to understand it. The first time she sees the Skywalker Saber, she runs away from it. She then spends the whole trilogy trying to give it to someone else, thinking she isn’t worthy. In the climax of TRoS, she finally accepts her own self concept and beloved she is worthy, pulling the Saber to her. Or what about what she calls and thinks of herself. In TFA: Rey-“I’m no one”. In TLJ: Kylo: “You’re nothing” Rey doesn’t even deny it. Rey believe she is a woethelsss scavenger her whole life. In the end of TRoS, however, Rey is told, by Palpatine, “You are NOTHING! A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me! I am all the Sith. To which she finally replied “And I am all the Jedi.” That, kid, is character development. Stop being a blind sheep, just absorbing click bait youtubers uneducated opinion and use your own brain and you may be able to see the Sequels for what they are.

Another thing, sorry for the spam but you’re so wrong, is that Rey defeating Kylo in one fight (where he is injured) doesn’t take away the tension from the story. Kylo is shown to not be the big bad. Snoke is and, if you watch TLJ, Rey is NO MATCH for Snoke.

Mary sue isn’t always bad like say Batman? He is rich , super smart, and literally is able to take down GODS??? When he is just a human Also Superman might count

The thing is, both Mary Sue, Trinity and Strong Woman are poorly written characters. But It is kinda ironic that the Mary Sue concept was developed as criticism of poorly written fanboy adaptations, designed to poke fun and point the flaws in escapistic male characters that plagued the Star Trek fandom. Mary Sue was created so wannabe writters would be able to see how ridículous their characters writting troopes where by proyecting them onto a woman who was not the usual template for and ubercool character that its ultimately a proyection of the writters fantasy. And yet, people seem utterly unable to take the hint, and not only are we still plagued with Gary Stu's franchises, like John Wick or Harry Potter; but we praise those characters as icons and only seem to be bothered by escapistic, proyective, clumsy written characters when they are female. So yeah, there is a double standart. Admitably fueled by the fact that most writters are male, and so when they create a proyective male character It is still somehow loosely conected to real human experience, which is not often the case with their female counterparts. Now George RR Martin knows how to create well rounded and developed characters. And I quote him on the secret of writting strong female leads that arent a walking cliché: just think that women are human.

Mary Sue: a woman who does stuff --people these days If Rey was Roy nobody would be complaining how great he is. Just look at Captain America. If Steve Rodgers was Stephanie she'd be labeled a Mary Sue without hesitation. I notice you're only showing women in this video. This is why it's considered sexist. Nobody truly cares about Wesley Crusher as a Sue. They just use him to try to say Mary Sue isn't sexist. Labeling a dozen women but one guy doesn't balance this out. People need to bring back damsel in destress. That could fix the problem of a Mary Sue. You can't be a Sue if you constantly get captured, after all. Who wants to be that if Harry Potter was Harriet Potter, how fast would she be labeled a Mary Sue? JK Rowling was smart when she didn't have a female lead. If Hunger Games is anything to go by. Katniss is often labeled a Mary Sue. I so fear the day when they make a Metroid movie. Samus Aran is gonna be hated on so bad.

The moment Rey suddenly gains the power to Jedi Mind Trick the Stormtrooper out of nowhere, I know that Disney intends to make her an all-powerful and tasteless wamen. God, never has there been such a moment when I feel hopeless instead of joyful when my prediction comes true.

Oh yeah, Harry Potter - the boy who survived the most powerful dark wizard of all time and is instinctively skilled with magic without any teaching. If Harry Potter was a girl, you know people like you would think they’re a Mary Sue.

Rey isn’t a Mary Sue, it’s a fact.

Yeah, just don’t show all the times where Rey fails and gets defeated. Sure, only Rey is a Mary Sue when she beat an injured and bleeding out man but of course Luke isn’t a Mary Sue when he’s a better pilot than the Empire and literally blows up the Death Star............. Sexism.

Rey isn’t a Mary Sue.

Sounds like you defined womans right groups and Black lives matter perfectly.

I wouldn't call Rey a bad character per se. But only because I can't even classify her as a character. She's more like a prop.