Silmarillion is paced beautifully. All killer, no filler.

My man takes a break after dumais wells? he isn't really into the series

The Silmarillion is pretty fast paced. Its 10 000 years or more of World History in a single book

@@535phobos I was more referring to Tolkien's general writing style. Lots of detail, even when arguably unnecessary.

​@@urusledgenaw thats Stephen King. Did you need to know the glass was prospering? No but he's gonna tell you.

I remember waiting for years and years for new books to come out. When book 10 came out and I realized it takes place before the end of book 9 I was so very very very upset.

100%

My thoughts exactly

completely unrelated, love the game in your pfp

You beat me to it.

Also, Robert Jordan originally wrote the last 3 books as just 1 book. It would have been over 3,000 pages. TOR wouldn't let him do it.

That fun fact isn’t true, there’s tons of misinformation on what the original intended length was though and I don’t quite recall it.

I binged the entire series in prison. Got done in like a month. Sanderson kept with Jordan's pace very well. Could hardly tell another author picked up the ending.

@jamesmercer5295 completely agree with you dude. super impressive.

ik the people at TOR were like “oh we’re not falling for this shit again!”

What's the name of the guy in the middle? He looks so familiar!

Weirdly enough, that's how LOTR felt to me. Only three books but never managed to finish them, while I've read all of WOT twice

Ah, it's such an awful term for me. The idea that these people feel they should read a series they don't want to read and not A Hundred Years of Solitude or East of Eden or The Colour Purple or all these other texts that they haven't heard awful things about.

@@Lastielion Those are such funny book choices, because 100 Years was literally my homework in college, The Color Purple (which I love and own) definitely felt like “black homework” & with the exception of Tortilla Flat, I actively dislike most Steinbeck. No disrespect, just a funny list.

@@FrogsIsGood thank you!

Canon idk

That's Harry Potter for me

I'm currently in this situation about Majoras mask. Watched plenty youtubers I follow praising the hell out of this game and what it means to them, BUT MAAAN I am so not the type of player that likes time-management mechanics, that's why I avoid RT strategy games and Persona, which btw is another case. But I've really want to give a shot at it, just been procrastinating a lot...

@@Raymander97 Enjoy the game for it's atmosphere! Talk and interact with the strange people, at different times! If time management feels difficult, try playing the song of time backwards.

I'm currently slowly making my way through Children of Dune pushed solely by the urge to finish the series. Dune was incredible, Dune Messiah was pretty good, Children of Dune is absolutely killing me

All these woolheaded men! (Snif, smooths dress, tug on braid).

Careful! She’ll come over and box your ears.

Robert Jordan did memes before memes were invented!

She would not betray her irritation - she would NOT!

Meanwhile Rand ponders what exactly Becca meant and thinks Matt and Perrin would definitely understand.

Literally how I did the whole thing. Listened to the entire series over the course of a year while delivering pizzas. IIRC, each book was on average 38 hours long

BROTHER!

“ nerd homework” pretty much sums up half of the Horus Heresy *I should probably read Vulkan Lives even though the reviews aren’t great. Then I need to read Garro before I can really understand Vengeful Spirit. Then everyone says to skip Damnation of Pythos…* Basically this for 62 novels

I read the first 3 then realised that the next books were all ridiculously expensive. One went for upwards of 200 quid if I remember right.

@@cookiecraze1310 Get the audiobooks

The Horus Heresy has a word count of 5 million over 64 books. Wheel of time has 4 million over 15 books.

💀💀

Yeah that was sarcasm :( "Maybe even Name of the Wind [if you're a sadist]")

I'm so pissed I gave that hobbiest Pat Rothfus my money.

You know, after being alive for a while I’ve come to think that endings are a bit overrated. haha

doors of stone release date 2042

After, yeah

downward slide after 5 imo. he stretched a lot.

7 is where the slog starts, what were the other 6 books?

@@qirat73 Its the start of where he slowed the books down. originally there wasnt supposed to be so many. I also call it a slog because alot of the important moments felt halfassed.

@@qirat73 the slog is typically referred to as 8,9 and 10. Not 7

Eiichiro Oda is the only other author I know of with such long-term planning

Was probably done post-hoc rather than planned that far ahead.

@@michaelcolbourn6719 If you can't get closure in 10 books, you're probably not inserting hooks in book one to come back to.

Best mapped out fantasy series of all time

My understanding is that Jordan basically planned the beginning and end, then realised he needed a lot of writing to bridge the gap.

Here's the thing - there are parts of the series (usually the beginning of the book for me) where I literally had to push myself to get through it, but the rest is actually quite good. There *is* a very noticeable peak of this trope though, and it's in the book that he said "is where it really gets good" ironically. Also - the TV show of Wheel of Time is *fantastic*

@@RabidDogmaI agree with you on the first part but the show is not fantastic. It is pretty awful

@@wolfmanj12 Sorry, but you're objectively wrong. And I can tell that your main problem with the show is something along the lines of "it didn't do this specific thing from the books," because everything from the acting to the direction to the writing is stellar.

@@RabidDogma I never said anything about the book being compared to the show. The show is not good. The writing is awful. The pace is terrible. Yes the actor and actresses are doing a good job but that can’t save the show. The show also has no concept of time. Perrin sends a letter and next scene Egwene reads it. Come on that’s bad writing.

@@wolfmanj12 hold on hold on hold on. Let's just take a breath for a second. First, I'll acknowledge that different people can enjoy different things, so what one person may say is good another may say is horrible. Second, there is no shame in enjoying something that other people, or even yourself, think is not that great, alright? Rabid likes the show, Wolf does not, no one is objectively right or wrong, because this is subjective. Have a great day, both of you

No male character makes a decision ever. A the Aes Sedai are constantly making decisions and doing things to push the plot forward.

@@rrteppo that's simply not true. The main male trio makes a ton of decisions (Mat less so, he's more willing to go with the flow for the first few books). Some of those decisions are really bad, but hey, they're barely out of their teens. Aes Sedai play a big role because they're, well, de facto the rulers of the world. That tends to happen when you're the only people who can wield magic in a socially acceptable way and have an almost absolute monopoly on magic education

@@tite93 You got a point Rand, and Perrin do quite a bit in the later half of the series. Matt kinda cheats on decision making, he got a prophecy that allowed him to coast on the decision making and let him focus on being clever in the interpersonal stuff.

Perrin's story arc and inability to make a decision after book 6 is part of the reason why the series slowed down so much

I'm literally in the middle of a series re-read right now and it's not accurate at all

Malazan is nerd dissertation.

At least malazan is good, wheel of time seemed great when I was a teen, rereading them revealed their tragic dullness

@@burzum2649 I feel the exact same way about Tom Clancy. I read so much of him in high school, retained nothing about them, and was bored beyond belief when I tried to reread him back in 2020. Meanwhile, I'm on my third reread of the Wheel of Time, and still enjoying it, so I'll chaulk that up to taste.

@@IamMeHere2See I think the wheel of time series is quite good at cool moments, rand sheathing the sword, the death beam aes sedai spell, perrin going wolf mode etc, but too much of the book reads like a self fellating teen wrote it. Robert Jordan really likes tits, and needs every character to be having sex with at least one other person! I don't hate wheel of time anyway, entirely adequate fantasy series, 6/10. There's just way waaaaay better stuff out there.

Malazan isn't as much as nerd homework as it is a streaming pile of crap

Sorry, The Audio BOOK

I watched the entirety of The Office during the height of its popularity about ten years ago, then rewatched a chunk of it a few years later, and I can honestly say it's supremely overrated. It's cringe humor by writers (and actors, arguably) who have no idea how to do cringe humor. The vast majority of genuinely funny scenes are cold open sketches which have nothing to do with the main plot of the episode or ongoing arcs, because the A-stories and ongoing arcs are *awful* and are at least 50% sustained by adolescent-style angst (with an adolescent sense of humor to go along). You are missing nothing by not watching it. If you *are* interested in a good mockumentary series, I personally think Parks and Rec is incredible despite being by the creators of The Office. They're a lot better when they aren't trying to do cringe.

hopefully. he can’t go unpunished for disparaging the good name of the storm light archive

@@marz6499 I’m sorry Trapp did WHAT What did he say

Stormlight archive becone good from the cover of book one.

Omg please yes

I have a giant stormlight tattoo on my right shoulder....the spears symbol used to represent kaladins pov....but my artist changed the symbol on the flag to house kholin symbol

Thatn sounds like book 7 to me... It got so slow.

See like, there's a reason why having an expansive vocabulary is a good thing. And this is that. Instead of writing every single tiny detail as if you're describing a scene to a blind person, you can use words the general public equates to something. Like sand billowing. Or winds whipping. Or dead branches reaching outwards. Or exotic designs. One or two adjectives per noun. End it right there. It makes it so much more streamlined. If you want more adjectives, use it for important things. Like characters or mainstay regions. Not everything. We all know what an item falling sounds like. You don't have to create a goddamn metaphor over it.

It depends, some people love all that detail. Personally, I eat that shit up. Loved in Tolkien and Jordan.

@@jonathanharris9717 I loved wheel of time. But some of us got really bored of Robert Jordan's bad writing habits. Especially books 7, 8, and 9. Thousands of pages, maybe a handful of answers. Lots of people cleaning dishes and complaining about the mud though.

@@B00Radl33 Oh, no doubt he did drag out a lot of the Andor succession which was painful to read. The series isn't perfect and while I like insane detail, a lot of filler arc could have been trimmed.

I mean i respect the sales tactic but that sounds abysmal

@@emoteen011 oh yeah, point really is that it's the series as a whole that's good.. the individual books are kinda shit if seen without the context of the series. So unless you plan to read the entire series, don't bother reading the first few.

@@emoteen011well it makes them great to re-read from the start because you start to notice really clever foreshadowing and descriptive work. He was a master world builder. Back in the day everyone was chatting about them on the fan forums trying to guess which characters were really the Forsaken in disguise. Robert Jordan loved putting hints into the plot with point of views from random characters, like a Dark Friend going to a meeting. If you didn’t read carefully you’d miss the clues. If he described what a masked character was wearing at the dark friend meeting pay attention, could be jewellery a fabric anything at all that gives away the Forsaken or darkfriend traitor because it will be casually mentioned in another scene with the main characters, could be for example a personal bodyguard was wearing that particular ring, main character catches a glimpse of it while being handed a message or something. I swear I missed loads the first & second read. But that’s why they’re so good, it’s never boring. Robert Jordan at fan interviews hated spoilers so when fans gave their theories on who the Forsaken were he’d always smile slyly & say “read and find out” Takes prior knowledge of the whole story and several re-reads. But I guarantee you he had a brilliantly complex story there. I felt Brandon Sanderson didn’t match up to Jordan’s unique style in the last books after Jordan passed away, he tried his best but there was just something missing. This also is why I’m not loving the tv adaptation they’ve got so much source material whole chapters literally setting the scene for them from what character is wearing, eating, even the props around them all described in excruciating detail could be adapted easily to the visual.

What are talking about? Like specifically? Can't think of a single time this happens.

...I was fucking bored as shit with FFXIV ARR, if Wheel of Time is like that, I ain't reading it.

sando brando

@@rottenisee2751 branderson sanderson

@@RPBiohazard brando sando

@@RPBiohazard Sandon branderson

Brando, Son of Sando

I have read that series so many times. I started reading when book 6 came out. I read it twice while waiting for book 7 and then reread the entire series for every book that came out until Sanderson took over and I still have not read his additions yet. I feel like I know the series by heart even though I haven't read it since RJ died.

I love robert jordan but when it takes 3 pages to describe a glade you start getting bored

Brent W i can tell you man brandon sanderson does it justice, its worth it to read those last 3 or 4( i cant remember now its been forever)

@@brentw6533 you should really finish it. 11, 12, 13 are really good. So much happens

@@andrewperry5366 I actually started reading Sanderson to check him out and have liked everything of his I have read.

the middle is the slowest part by far

Prequel is great! I did the audiobook so I could get all of the pronunciations, lots of technical magic stuff, love it!

Book 6 is great too! the ending is one of the best moments in the series. Book 7-10 is were it gets really tough reading with the story grinding to a halt.

I'm re-reading the whole series right now, and book 4 is incredible. The whole series is, but I never realized before how much crazy shit happens in that book alone

​@@_Stormfatherone of my favourites of the whole series.

Book 6 is were it begins.

He was relatively unknown at that point too. Sanderson would um actually these guys and tell them to read WoT.

Bored himself to death or what?

Yeah wondering if people comparing the two realize BS was chosen by RJ because he knew he was good and would care for the world he made after RJ died

Chosen by RJ's wife, actually.

​@@thomasrayBoth Jordan and his wife chose Sanderson while he was still alive.

If you skip the Perrin POVs than these 'slog' books are very enjoyable. This is what I do at rereads.

100% 🧢

True

Why?

​@@tpkdm71might be a good series, who knows

Thank you! Dont mind these jokers.

@@tpkdm71because they love it and it’s one of the greatest fantasy series

@@brendondavid7349 🤣🤣🤣🤷🏻‍♀️

I really liked New Spring. What did you think of it?

That's how I did them too. Could easily bang out 7 hours of book a day. Although one chapter had to be divided between multiple days

It's interesting. When I started Stormlight, it took me like 300 pages to really get invested (pun intended). But after going back and re-reading, I don't know why. It is, as you say, magnificent from the get-go

Page 0 : W e L i e T o T h e m, a n d g o i n s a n e

​@@_StormfatherFirst 400 pages is world building for several characters that you know nothing about on the first read-through. On second (and beyond) read-through you already know the characters so the build up has much more weight and familiarity, and you can pick up on details that were just not obvious the first time around.

Just everything from brandon sanderson 👌

So many decisions get made!

I heard Amazon is convincing prisons to transition to e-readers, and refuse book donations, supposedly to prevent drug-smuggling, but really just to squeeze money out of every book read.

@@kedabro1957 Not sure if that. Couldn’t find any reasonable info to support that either. A lot of prisons are switching to e-readers, but it’s more to suck money out of them and for commissary.

You must have been gone for a good while lol

@@athmaid 5 years.

Which book did you like the most? I thought New Spring was really interesting.

Reported for misinformation! ;)

Legit. I'm on book 10, and the series would honestly benefit from cutting all that down to like 5 or 6. The first 100 - 150 pages of Crown of Swords is completely filler fluff that only needed like 8 pages

It's also an issue of the medium, books can become a slog because everything has to be described. Whereas with pictures you can tell the audience a lot about the world without having to spend a whole page describing some random species of frog.

​@@joshuaward2271book 10 is the worst offender by far due to half the book being a fucking prequel to the climax of book 9 (I love WOT btw read it 3 times)

Personally, the books were a great read, and they were obviously working out for him, he was not exactly poor when he died. So I would say he at least partially succeeded. I think it was heavily self serving though, just Jordan trying to see how far he could take a world, how much he could create. Even so, he made a dense and imaginative story with colourful and varied characters, so many of whom had their own full stories.

It has a feel of a historical fiction book crossed with a textbook. With the need to explain things that would be common knowledge to members of this world, but we have no reason to understand. It was very real to me, the complexity made it seem more true to real human existence.

Thank you for this, I meant to start reading this and a harddrive wipe removed all my bookmarks, forgot it existed... glad to get that back on a list

Same here. I discovered Sanderson while reading WoT back in high school, and since then I've read all his work and he's my favorite author. Can't wait for The Lost Metal in a few days

Could not disagree more. To each their own, but Sanderson has always felt like a cheap knock off that can't shape up in comparison to those he is clearly trying to emulate. Can't stand the Stormlight Archive. Wanted to love it, parts I loved, but he gets so utterly lost in the weeds that I killed the experience for me. Sanderson is really best when he's more simple swords/sorcery and action imo Just my take though. I know plenty who love him as their fav author, and no harm or foul on that.

@@arkainin4638 he could have trimmed some fat in The Way if Kings, Kaladin's early storyline in particular seemed to drag on. Otherwise I'm a big fan. I got tired of Robert Jordan's repetitive descriptions of feasts and clothing, which is common to a lot of fantasy writers. I REALLY got tired of some specific tropes. For example Rand, Mat, and Perrin all wishing the others were there because "they know how to talk to girls". Each character has that exact same thought over and over and over and over...

@@musicalmcbride I actually felt it was the rest of the story that pulled and dragged on. Kaladin's story was the one good part in my opinion. It was everywhere else where Sanderson tried to be grander than his ability allowed. I am bias though. Every time I see Sanderson he just gives off used car salesman vibes. His kickstarter was also pretty unethical and bad for the industry. But that's stuff outside of his writing. Have to 100% disagree with you on RJ. I thought his worldbuilding was top notch and very interesting in how he mirrored real life cultures but twisted them in location and ethnicity in many cases. I also thought the internal thought all three of the boys had, seeing the others as being the popular smooth one, no matter how far they traveled, was charming and somewhat true to life. We all measure up to those we know, and not usually in a realistic way. Just my opinion though, seeing as this is all subjective.

​@@_Stormfather ITS SO GOOD I JUST READ IT

Me as well

Lent is not meant to be torture.

Half of the drama being caused by people who spend all of their time together not talking about important issues is lazy, crap writing. It's the garbage writing we should expect from a CW teen show, not from a good book

srsly

And her taking about fantasy?? Unbelievably hot.

Right!!! I love Katelyn Reading and Michael Kramer's voices

​@@jonahdonahue2930 my favorite audiobook narrators

Right? A Memory of Light is just non. stop. action. wrapping up old plot lines.

I love Wheel of Time but there are books where you're just like "Just go do literally anything cause I'm about to pull my hair out"

I actually don't think it gets good at book seven. I think seven to 10 is rough. 1-6 and 10-14 are the good parts.

@@Syaska agreed! My husband and I read them while dating, and both got soooo bored around then. Glad it wasn't just us. I recommend listing to those ones on audiobook 2x speed. Makes it much more bearable.

If you didn’t think those first six were good, you’re in for a world of pain for 4-5 books. Welcome to the slog.

Just wanted to say that the ending to book 6 is possibly my favorite ending to a book in the series, only topped by 11, IIRC (whichever one a main character has a conversation with himself atop a mountain, to try and say it without spoilers)

End of book 6 is one of my very favorite moments in the entire series

I'm not prepared for the 20 years it's gonna take for storm light arc two to be completed

@@beanoboy62 I just restarted the mistborn series because I love me some pewter burning

@@JettMann8 I started the mistborn series in October, I have now finished the storm light archive so far. Anxiously awaiting December

@@beanoboy62 YAAAAS

If u have to get through them they arent good lol. Your talking about literature like food poisoning. It wasnt great because i survived it.

@@brandonprice119 you know sometimes you have to "get through" a workout as well right? it may be rough to do but you can still enjoy it if you read the beginning you would have read that I said "Personally my favorite fantasy series along with stormlight archive" just because I say the length is rough, or that there are parts that can drag a bit doesn't mean i can't enjoy it, i meant "get through them" in relation to that the best way to consume the series was through audiobook because they are such a time commitment, even if they are great books

@TheGreatBlub57 i mean i don't enjoy my workouts. i enjoy the results. I do get through the workout though. To each thier own i hate audiobooks personally cant seem to retain the information the same way but thats a me thing.

Its long, but thats what I like about it. I started reading the series when there were 7 books. I would reread the entire series every time a new book came out (I have a poor memory lol). Currently rereading again.

I'm glad I finally read it and when it gets going it's really interesting. But it took me a good 5 months to plough my way through. Really good, but a lot of work. Nerd homework indeed.

@@jfat4one more reasson to try again! thank you :D

@@devinasusual5742 Its a very weird style of writing that can be rather off-putting and jarring to start in comparison to more contemporary literature. Took me a while to really understand it. And there is so much world building that it can be hard to keep everything straight. The first half was quite a challenge for me to read. The second half was much more enjoyable. And I think its important to remember that some books just aren't meant for us. Just because its a great piece of sci-fi, doesn't mean everyone will enjoy it. If you enjoy reading it, great! Its a great piece of work!. If you dont enjoy reading it, then don't. I feel like people often get too caught up reading what they think they should like rather than what they actually do like and it kills a desire to read (or at least it did for me for a while).. I hope you enjoy it and really sink into it, but if you dont, dont force it. Read what you want to read!

Jesus. I'm struggling with the first Dune book since I'm just bored. I can't imagine reading so many books just to get to some parts that are good.

@@mujtabaellari2597 the first few books are great and the last few books (filled in by another author after the original's passing) are great

@@mujtabaellari2597 reading is just not for you

@@nachogrimoldi1359 my bookshelf that's packed to the brim begs to differ. I just didn't like Dune.

That's still four books to read before you know if the books are for you lol

@@1337-Nathaniel yeah you’re right. Honestly, if you’re not hooked in the first 100 pages then also drop it. I love the series so I’m a bad judge of when to drop it but if you don’t like it even at the beginning then just drop it. It shouldn’t be homework, it should be fun.

@@1337-Nathaniel well i mean i was hooked after chapter 1. I just meant book 4 was when i went from “this is really good” to “wow this is the greatest fantasy series of all time”.

a lot of people like. for a lot of people WoT was the gateway into fantasy. and the series has its highs (and lows). as someone who is more lukewarm on it i wouldn't recommend the books but on the other hand it isn't my business to tell people what to read. i would say there are no "must reads". people get WAY to emotional over stuff they like and don't like. Read and let read

It’s like the complexity of GOT and the pace of The Two Towers

Yeah, that guy (don't know his name) doesn't know what he's talking about. Book 7 or 8 is usually where people say _The Wheel of Time_ gets *less* good. Not to mention no-one making any choices in Books 1-6? I'd say it's Book 4 where Characters start to make choices. [ _The Shadow Rising_ Spoilers]: Rand choosing to go to the Aiel Waste, Perrin choosing to go back to the Two Rivers, Nynaeve and Elayne choosing to go to Tanchico, Egwene choosing to become a Dreamwalker under Aiel tutelage, Mat choosing to go through not one but two Red Stone Doorways, Rand choosing to become Chief of Chiefs of the Aiel, Perrin choosing to lead the Duopotamians into battle, Rand choosing to tell the Aiel of their past.... And that's just Book 4.

@@AhsimNreiziev I mean, to each his own, but I don't really think you've read the first 6 books if you're saying no one is making decisions. Books 7-10 is where no one is making decisions. Even when the characters aren't making decisions, it's thematically important why they aren't. Also, 6 books being 2800 words? Lol, that's like the first 3 books.

okay but it gets really good in part 4

@@ch3ru i feel like if someone doesnt like the first part they're not gonna enjoy the rest, it's the same formula for the entire series. granted, i skipped a chunk of episodes of part 1 to get to the fight against Dio and now jojo is one of my favorite anime, so idk

Jojo series are essentially different genres on top of the same theme. Part 3 is a travelling adventure, Part 4 is basically a Slice-of-life (with Stands), Stone Ocean is Prison Break (with Stands), Steel Ball Run is "Wacky Racers" (with Stands). People either read everything Jojo, or they just pick their favourite genre/part and they're fine with just that.

@@oceanelambert2507 maybe on the surface, but the only thing they really have in common narratively is "assemble posse, stop bad guy". Everything in between is pretty different. But if they don't like they general vibe of Always Be The Most Extreme And Dramatic, then yeah, they probably won't like it lol

Listen if you don't like part 1, go to part 2. If you don't like part 2, try stardust crusaders. Stardust crusaders is where Jojo's becomes solidified as the overly dramatic action fantasy that most people know it as today. I personally like 1 and 2, not really sure why so many people hate it as much as they do but if you wanna see the dramatic Jojos, Stardust Crusaders and Golden Wind are where they start.

“Parts”

@@oldvlognewtricks Yeah, there were some parts he copied off of other things, like the Aiel being a hodgepodge of Celts, Zulu, and Tuareg.

@@romxxii The Aiel don’t appear in The Eye of the World

That's kind of the point of EotW. It starts with the classic tropes and then, as the series progresses, veers into new territory. Bear in mind that WoT began in the early 90's when the big names in fantasy included Feist and Eddings who were unrepentantly tropey.

@@pintpullinggeek It also sets up those plot veers in the first book - the mentor character is really probanly manipulating them, and the big defeat of the bad guy really isn’t, and all of that… It’s basically one massive rug pull. Complaining that Eye of the World is derivative is missing the point… The story is classic adventure nonsense because they’re naive children who think they’re on a straightforward adventure to defeat evil, but the reality and the ultimate ending is perhaps the exact opposite of that. That doesn’t change the EotW follows the Lord of the Rings practically beat for beat. You can draw direct parallels between The Ways and the mines of Moria or whatever, throughout the whole book.

John Grabus(bearded man) High and Mighty is pretty close to that. There’s an ep of him and Trapp talking pulp High Fantasy that’s pretty fun

Im gonna give you a like just cause you actually put so many

@@elijahosman2648 It will haunt me to the end of my day

"Onomatopoeia" means "sounds like what it describes". Is there a word for "looks like what it describes"?