The 4 pillars concept is so elegant, I'm surprised I've never heard it before anywhere else. Thanks for sharing it!

One of the things i always consider is "how many cards is my combo, what speed (as in sorcery/istant) and how many tutors am i running" I don't play cEDH so i generally try to keep my power level down, but i really like infinites, to have your gitrog deck as an example, it's a 2 card combo with your commander, and it's istant speed, you run a lot of redundancy, tutors and the only "weak" point is your wincon being sorcery speed. When i make a new commander deck it generally starts with a commander a resonate with and a "cool combo" i want to get off, so my approach is starting with "how strong is the thing once it's online?" And based on that i adjust my tutor and redundancy package around that (in my case the stronger the combo the less tutors and redundancy i run) In the end your deck wants to get to a winning poins, and stramlining the road to get there is the best way to win, that is the collection of ramp, tutors, card draw, redundancy that makes the deck faster AND consistent

I have a cedh at home deck. It's Galea Kindler of Hope and I'm absolutely in love with it. I don't assign a power level to that deck, and I only pull it out if the table wants a high powered game. I love how it's a niche strategy, Voltron, but I've upgraded the deck to the point where it actually turns into a combo deck at some point. I think it's great to have a home for all my best cards, and I have other decks for games where that's not the vibe.

As someone who only plays Obnixilis decks. I laughed at the impact he’s had on your local play groups. 😂

I’m just getting back into the game I stopped in 07. I never played commander and want to use the old cards I still have… Gitrog was the first commander option that appealed to me 😂 still working on the deck…

Gotta agree, i had to 2 decks both arround ~30 bucks. But they were so freaking fast and strong we actually had to ban them for casual nights. One being Light Paws and the other being Zada Hedron Grinder.

Power level is like spiciness for food. Imagine that on a pain versus pleasure scale, that 0 is disappointingly boring, and 10 is frustratingly hospital inducing. 5 of course is thus every day average, while 7 is "adventurous and zesty! Rawr!" Everyone wants their deck to be adventurous and zesty. They want a fun game, they don't come to the table to destroy everyone, they don't come to the table to be a paste eating person in the corner, and they certainly don't come to the table to walk away with there literally being no sensory reason to have just spent an hour shuffling cards and playing a game. To add to that a bit, no one plays commander for the experience of playing with 0-6 decks, unless they're fine tuning a deck to be a 7. The thing is though, ANY deck can be a 7. It just depends on what the other three decks are. Back to our spiciness analogy: Every sane person agrees that Bell Peppers, with a Scoville of 0 aren't spicy. Everyone sane person agrees that Carolina Reaper peppers with a Scoville of 2.2 million are indeed spicy. But, now how spicy is a Jalapeño? Well, technically Jalapeños have a Scoville rating that ranges from 2,500 to 8,000. What does that really mean though? Well it means if you're used to eating Poblano peppers, which have a Scoville rating of 1,000-1,500 a Jalapeño is going to be spicy, and some Jalapeño's will make people VERY uncomfortable. Meanwhile if you're used to eating a Serrano peppers, which have a Scoville rating of 10,000-20,000, most Jalapeños will just add a fun flavor. Commander Power Levels are like that. Each deck is a pepper at the table. The game you're playing is going to need to consider each person's normal comfort level. So, that's why the "Power Level" talk just falls apart in a casual setting where you show up and meet with 3 other people who all go "Mine's a 7!" Sure, we agree your decks are 7s, normally, but what are they at this table? And that can only -really- be discovered through game play. What you can do instead though is introduce your deck like a small dating profile: Hi, this is Kresh, he wins through combat damage, and if he's not hindered can really become problematic around turn 7. As a closer, I run "Triumph of the Hordes" and similar effects. OR: Hi, this is "The Ghost Council of the Orzhova" it durdles, and is Legal Tribal. It has a lot of inefficient cards to fit the theme, and doesn't have a clear game plan outside of eventually commander damage and happy accidents as the deck is mostly a novelty. Both of those decks are 7s. But it depends who else is at the table. If Tymna and Thrasios show up, then I'll probably swap out to Godo, Momir, or Urza. If men without hats tribal shows up, then Ghost Council might chill. It just sort of depends.

Great Video. Thanks for sharing. I agree with most if not all of your points and topics. I always say, a good conversation pre game solves a lot, as does chatter in the game to access the current threat and understanding the game itself. GL on more videos in the future.

Your underrated bro, keep up the great work!

As someone just getting into edh from drafting, this was perfect timing 😂

Yes, cards can be strong, but cards that are strong in CEDH can be weak in casual games. I dont think cards determine power level of decks. Let's say sol ring is a CEDH card. Almost all precons got sol ring nobody complains coz it's cheap everyone can afford it and it's reprinted in almost every precon. Mana crypt is good in cedh but bad in casual coz it's long game. Means crypt will kill you often than helping you out. Also crypt is bad if your deck consist of a very low amount of generic mana cost. Like let's say you have so much cards like necropotence coz it produce 3 black mana so your sol ring and crypt are useless. Power level for me consist of deck construction and questions like. Can you win game in under 5 turns while protecting and/or preventing someone to win. That's only an example. I dont think cards determine power level. It's more of what can your deck do? Do you win early by using combos how consistent is your win or deck? Those are the questions. Can you prevent someone by winning early if you are playing mid to long games? Do you think if you bring your deck to tournaments you have a higher chance on winning? I hate when people say that's a CEDH card. I return them by asking you have a sol ring in your deck shutup!. You said it's casual low but yet you are playing sol ring. I dont think new players understand how powerful sol ring is.

Lets be real, Culling Ritual is perfect for players who try to win with Tokens or spam the board with low power but highly volatile units. I imagine Ajani's Pridemate would be quickly blown up, but one could easily grow to great sizes with an Impassioned Orater, Ajani's Welcome, and Soul Warden before it happens. Even funnier if its one of those 2 mana Commanders XD

How consitant you can win in the least amount of turns and how well you can answer other players wincons is a great example of how to rate power level. Having Oracle combo in a deck alone does not make it cEDH. Being able to pull it off consistently by turn 5 makes it powerful.

AWESOME EDH!!!!

I honestly feel like it is best to separate power and consistency when judging a deck's power level. Think of it as Power Ceiling, rather than the average power of the deck. Poorly built decks will struggle with consistency and judging them based on their average performance will not reflect what the deck is capable of. [Scale from 1-10 at the bottom] I usually look at how fast a deck can win or how completely it can dominate a table when it does what it is supposed to do. The flaws of a deck do not decrease the power level, they just decrease consistency. I had this issue with my squirrel deck, which I determined was "unplayable" and completely rebuilt at a lower power level for better consistency. I would win on turn 2-5, but 2 or 3 counterspells and removal spells is all it would take to basically lock me out of the game. Chatterfang isn't good enough to be a CEDH deck, and I pretty much made the deck as strong as it realistically could be. I would definitely say it fell into what is typically considered a 9, which I associate with "Degenerate EDH", not CEDH. This deck is what I would consider a "Bad" 9. If there is no one at the table with a counterspell in hand, it can just win on turn 2 with no one ever getting a chance to stop it, which is definitely better than an 8, but also won't stand a chance against competitive decks due to the amount of interaction present in the format. This is a trap that I feel a lot of players fall into when they keep upgrading a casual deck until it is no longer fun for any other casual deck to play against. It just becomes a question of "Can you remove/counter my commander, or do I win?". Then if they leave you alone, you just win, and if they don't then it isn't fun to play anyway when everything you do is just countered or immediately removed. I have had so many decks fall into this pattern, and I have completely scrapped some of my "highest power" non CEDH decks because they don't fit into a power level. The second major factor is cards used, and for the most part, price can be a great indicator. Cards that are worth several hundred dollars and are not integral to the strategy of the deck, really shouldn't have a place in casual decks. If you load up your casual deck with CEDH staples and proxy expensive cards that don't directly die into what your deck is trying to do to increase the power of the deck, that is just bad deckbuilding. For example, adding fast mana and Chains of Mephistopheles to an otherwise average deck will make the deck much higher power, and lower consistency. Third major factor is combos and synergies. There isn't a great metric to measure this, but generally the fewer cards and less mana needed to pull off a combo, the higher power the deck will be. ThOracle Consultation or other insanely high-power combos will artificially inflate the power level with inconsistent wins. You can have an otherwise poorly built deck, but if you can draw your entire deck for 3 mana, and then drop some fast mana to play the few actual win conditions, you end up with high power low consistency. Synergies are more nuanced and really difficult to gauge but are generally lower power than combos. Another factor is Stax effects and control elements. These will make your deck stronger by making your opponent's decks worse. Stax in casual games is a bit of an issue because people don't usually run enough removal and are basically locked out of the game when you play certain cards. I feel like Stax does not drastically increase the power of a deck, but only a well-built deck will really be able to deal with it. I personally don't have any issue with Stax in my lower power decks because I run plenty of interaction, but I've played many games, even against much more powerful decks where I drop a Stax piece, and it just stays on the board for the rest of the game or until I die. Last thing is Commander Selection. Some commanders have a high-power floor, and others have a low power ceiling. You're not going to build a 4 with Voja as your commander and any decent synergy in your deck, and there are many commanders that just can't reach CEDH level. Deciding on what you want your deck to do is the most important factor of determining what power level to aim for when building the deck. Rin & Seri can only be high power if you give up cats and dogs in favor of infinite combo loops and CEDH staples, but who actually wants to play Rin & Seri that doesn't want to run cats and dogs? I find my downgraded Chatterfang deck to be much more fun to play and play against than the much more powerful one I used to run. One thing that I feel is not directly tied to the power level of the deck, is interaction. Lacking interaction does not make a deck lower power, it just makes a deck worse. Just like not putting in enough lands or anything else, it will lead to a consistency issue, more than a power issue. Overall, I find that power level is very objective for decks if separated from consistency, but trying to factor how consistent a deck is into it's power will lead to massive variation. I use a general scale to gauge my decks against other people's and I think it's fairly accurate. 1-2: Decks not designed to win. 3-5: Precon Level - Poor Land base, some decent synergy on the higher end. 6: Upgraded Precon - Imperfect but improved mana base. No fast mana, reliable strategy. 7: Average Commander Deck: Improved Mana base, no fast mana, maybe a few tutors or combos, but nothing insane. 8: Upper end of casual: Optimized mana base, limited fast mana, limited tutors, some infinite combos, shouldn't be winning before turn 5. 9: "Degenerate EDH": When a non CEDH deck is built full of CEDH staples with extreme synergy and efficiency. A weak or out of meta CEDH Deck can also fall here. 10: CEDH: I would put any meta CEDH deck at this level.

This was a really good video and I think about this a lot at my locals because ppl Ask me what’s my deck power level and I can’t give a good answer because I play kaalia the vast and everyone knows kaalia and how she plays base on mechanics alone. But base on facters of luck and good opportunity with hand I can win the game on a 4 to 5 land drop also some pods don’t care about the the banlist and you can play the cards you want so with that can increase your chances of winning in the pod

My best metric so far is to judge my decks in respect to one another, its far from perfect, however it is somewhat effective. My urza is the best, however not quite CEDH, so its a 9 My yawgmoth can measure up to urza, yet it is somewhat slower, so it is an 8-9 Currently I am trying to optimize a Lurrus deck, that would be a 7 Then I have some of my older decks, like Oloro, that do not quite measure up, so thats a 6 And finally my classics, that atraxa deck thats all landdrops and hopes to win with just atraxa and some planeswalker backup, probably a 5 together with my zombie deck The only one of my decks that falls outside the rating is Sram, because he sure can clap every single one of my decks, even race urza with a little luck, however if someone has turn two removal, he voltronn't and misses his landdrops in a failure cascade. If opponents run removal, he is probably a 6 or so, if they don't, its an 8

Dang mtg Jesus spitting heat

For power level, I usually go with on what turn I can effectively run away with the game. None of my decks win before turn 7. Even in the best of cases… so I typically ask around what turn you normally win? Maybe it’s the wrong question 🤷🏻‍♂️

I disagree that tutors do not necessarily increase power level. They do. If drawing an extra card puts a player ahead of card draw by one turn, the same or better can be said for drawing exactly the card one wants. Even relatively low-powered decks will be more powerful if the player can choose if he will simply draw a creature or a land the next turn, even if for the cost of one mana-as most cEDH do not achieve mana clearances that tight. That said, redundancy can have similar effects (for example-the redundancy of your discard outlets), which generally goes to consistency and synergy. But a tutor, especially a black tutor, can and should be considered additional redundancy *for anything in the library*. I agree with you generally, however.

Good stuff. Subscribed

Why not Noxious Revival instead of Reclaim? Other than that it's a very sweet deck!

I've heard some groaning about Sol Ring, but besides the cost and ubiquity, I also think commander does a couple things that encourage it. 100-card singleton makes it not a sure thing, and if everyone has a ring, it breaks easy parity... at random. Also, commander's origins were very battle-cruisery, and rocks of any sort helps colors that are not green actually get to, say, 8 mana. I appreciate this dive into power level. It's an interesting thought exercise, and your approach is different than others I'd heard.

Number suck. Low, mid, high, cedh. That’s how I scale, each power level looks to win at different turns (typically speaking) cedh turn 0-5. High 6-8, mid 9-11. Low 12+. None of this is a literal it has to be that turn. It’s an idea. The other thing is strategy. What archetype are you playing. Or what is your win condition. Win conditions can tell you power level as well. Ad naus, breach brain freeze. That’s cedh win cons. Card quality as well. If you’re on generically good cards like smothering tithe rhystic. And have a solid win condition like mind crank duskmantle guild mage. Your most likely high power.

Really good video but your intro music is too loud

I don't like lower power levels as the game feels too slow and the decks are just unoptimized to the point i am just going to get bored sitting there. If i wanted to just simply talk to people while looking through my cards i would have done that instead not play the filthy casual battlecruisers that is just way too slow. A power level 7 where you have a good mana base as in you don't get mana flooded or screwed fine i guess i could rarely play it, but a 8 is where it is at which a power level 8 can CONSISTANTLY win if uninterrupted by turn 8+ and as early but not as consistent as turn 7 as sometimes a deck in a power level wins a bit earlier than intended. A good deck has interactions so you can remove or counter spells if need be and infact the best way to actually enjoy magic is tactical interactions to your win con not just let your opponent do their thing Which also brings me to my next point people need to stop being pissy about certain strategies and actually run interactions so they can prevent their most hated shit from being played, like seriously shut the fuck up and play the game since part of the fun is overcoming what your opponent throws at you Personally i don't like the 1-10 scale as no need to have 9 and 10 which are considered competitive to be on the same scale as casual decks, also jank should not be on the same scale either as you are not taking the game seriously it's just random bs like chair tribal or ladies on the left or sometime "oops all land" with no way to win. Like seeing Jank decks on the same scale is like taking a piss on the game itself as you throw out the core concept of the game winning or losing as at the end of the day the game has to end somehow and there has to be a winner and losers. Again the point of the game is to win which you can do however you want BUT the way to have fun winning is TACTICAL interaction such as removal or counter spells that way it is a actual interactive back and forth The scale of 1-10 also don't make sense as people casual players don't actually keep track of their turns on what they could consistently win on and no one wants to go too high or too low so they always say 7. Like the whole power level discussion is just fucking stupid especially when you take into consideration disruptive decks such as control or stax as they throw off the consistent turn to win, and two control decks at a table could literally make a competitive game go for 21 turns instead of the usual 4 or 5 turns as disruptive decks usually delay the turns anyways past the usual 4 to end the game. Like it is hard to classify what a competitive disruptive deck is but we all know what a bad one looks like a it is just a mild annoyance that just king made the game especially when talking about Stax the hardest thing to do in competitive. Literally the wrong stax card at the wrong time OR sequence can hand the game to an opponent, so the stax player literally needs to know how the game works and the meta game. However a good Stax player can tilt even chill competitive players Usually a Disruptive deck gets crowned competitive if you can stop someone from winning preferably multiple someone's by turn 4 as your main goal with disruption is to slow them down so you can win and ONLY establish a lock when you know you can win in the next few turns otherwise they will counter spell the lock and then your wincon. And even then you slowing them down might not even stop them from winning as most competitive decks are adaptive and can pivot resulting in them winning anyways if you take too long to win, critical mass is a thing for a lot of powerful decks and at a certain turn they just win because their decks start going infinite left and right or you just run out of answers. And even then there are huge power differences in competitive decks that they themselves can be put on a 1-10 scale with very few differences there are between decks power the higher the number on the scale is. As a good competitive deck and a bad one there is not actually much of a difference yet still at the same time the power is actually a massive difference

I avoid playing with anyone who cares about power level. Its a game. Only one person can win. Mtg is about making sure your friends cant play the game. That is the point.