body positivity = good trans representation = good positive representation of a trans woman with realistic features that a lot of real trans women have = >:(

This is internalized transphobia in action, drawing trans women who are pre hrt normalizes trans women who don’t or can’t go on hrt for a variety of reasons, by saying it’s transphobic to depict trans women pre hrt we are saying hrt is what makes you a woman (Hrt is great tho and if you can get on it you should, but if you can’t that does not make you any less valid and valuable as a person)

comparing this awesome artwork to transphobic caricatures is insane

The vitriol over this art was just disgusting tbh. They way she is depicted here is beautiful. I have a similar body type, so seeing someone look so pretty with it is very touching. The comparisons to "DISGUSTING MALE UNDERWEAR MODELS" is literally just stuff you'd see from far right accounts. Anyone who posted that type of stuff should feel extreme shame. They are not good allies to queer liberation.

as a pre-medically transition trans person it hurts me to see people call depictions of us transphobic. i love seeing art of pre transition trans people it makes me feel so seen :)

i think what separates this from actually transphobic art is that the lady is portrayed as dignified. theres dignity in how she looks and stands and the context of the image. its not meant to deride.

context: the art in question takes place in a time period where, spoiler alert, artificial hormones DIDNT EXIST, so trans women all lacked breasts at the time, that was just a fact of life, the fanart is true to the time period so it really bothered me how you kept talking about how Marinas chest looked "too much like pecs" ... yes, thats what Marinas chest would look like, just as any pre-hrt trans womens chest would look like, thats normal? the "small breasts" you see is merely a bra, not breast, Marina canonically has not been on any hrt or other alternative to develop any breasts

On what planet are her features “exaggeratedly masculine”? She looks more feminine than I did when I was 16, pre-T. She just looks like a remarkably pretty but otherwise normal chick, without boobs, but like, not all women have boobs!

Honestly, I agree. A lot of trans women don’t have access to breast construction surgery, so depicting a trans women like that isn’t that unrealistic. It’s kind of like drawing a trans man with visible scars from the mastectomy. It’s not transphobic. If anything, it’s pro-trans, because trans people all look different. We don’t all have the luxury of being able to pass.

I'm a trans female and I think that depiction of Marina is very beautiful. I see nothing offensive and I'd wager the majority of people who *are* taking offense are just cis people who are just virtue signaling. Androgynous transfems are valid and beautiful.

This bothers me because, as silly as this is going to sound, one of the first times I felt like *a woman*, rather than just "a transsexual", was because of a very... honest? drawing someone did of me. I was pretty early into HRT, maybe 4-5 months? and I was seeing a lesbian chick. I have never felt imposter syndrome on that level before. It would come up a lot, She's a *lesbian*. How could she want to be with me over a "real woman"?. I told her I wished I could see myself how she saw me. she's an artist, Later she sent me a drawing of myself. Posing how I tend to sit (which was also very nice of her because it tastefully hid a certain aspect of my body I am deeply uncomfortable about, because I was nude in the drawing). It was stylised and cartoonish, but it was very recognisably me. I got so choked up because like, she hadn't tried to flatter me? She drew me a lot like the character in this art, but she had gotten the developing breasts thing down better. because that's kinda how I looked at the time, just with shittier hair I was still growing out, and dwindling facial hair shadow from ongoing laser, that I covered up with makeup. She hadn't made my breasts any bigger, my shoulders any less broad, my nose any less prominent, my jawline any softer, my hair any less messy. She drew me with my favourite makeup look on, so my only "tell" that was omitted were the strange patches of facial hair shadow i still had at the time. And then she said "see? you *are* beautiful". This is why I'm so fond of trans characters being depicted like this, and not like, identical to a cis woman with perfectly passing voices- because when they do that shit it made, and to a certain extent still does make, me feel like an imposter- " oh sure I'm trans, but i'm not a "TRANS WOMAN" like her- the perfect passoid". This honesty is the opposite of transphobic.

to quote a tumblr post that is still floating thats sentiment helped with my chest dysphoria as a trans masc: "also draw transmasc characters with tits and transfem characters without them sometimes its good for you. degender boobs and lack thereof now" ~[redacted cause im idk him personally] i got rid of my tits and therefore dysphoria before the post was made, but i remember seeing sentiments like this long before the post was made. the thought always helped.

ah yes, a realistic representation of my actual body, and like anything that actually represents who i really am the trans community at large seems to hate it. Please treat amab people like people we actually exist.

Just echoing that the body type isn't a mistake, they lived during Fantasy WWII, where wearing a covering dress and a packed bra was the peak of passing available safely, especially in an active warzone. That's not an accusation of misreading, since you don't play this game, but it's important context for the artist's choices

she looks so gorgeous- like,,, literally ethereal. i don’t understand how people are mad at this

The depiction of Marina isn't entirely accurate, but neither are the fanart of the other characters (at 37:36, the other 3 characters are cis women, and they look much more masculine than in canon). The artist clearly has a style and Marina is just depicted in that style. I'd say that drawing all the women more andro/masculine *except* the trans girl character would've been even more problematic, in my opinion.

I've only learnt about F&H recently, and even I can see how delusional that post is. Marina is a trans woman, but her depiction here is how she is, it doesn't sugarcoat it or demonize it, it's literally just her body in a beautifully renditioned way, if someone did art of my body like that I'd be so happy.

I could a hundred percent agree with the intro teaser. They wouldn't have such benevolence . It would have been terrible. I don't know how people would say thats transphobic. it's art of a early phase trans girl or a androgynous person. I see no problem with this . I'm all for it. And finally a game with proper representation.

I remember I qrted one of those upset tweets saying people will love gender nonconforming cis characters but once a trans character is respectfully depicted as nonpassing or GNC, it's "bad"... I immediately got blocked by the OP and it really does disappoint me the lack of positivity for trans people who don't conform or don't want to conform to their gender. It just feels like circling back to those same ideas about gender roles/standards that being trans was meant to defy. I don't think there should be rules or limits on how a trans person (or anyone for that matter) should present themselves especially since gender is also a spectrum.

Honestly, as a fairly masc presenting trans femme, it would be pretty nice to see fairly masc/andro presenting trans femmes being depicted in a beautiful way like the artwork more often cause it makes me feel like I'm included even though I'm realistically not going to pass because of my height and build

btw marina isn't on hrt, that's a headcannon (edit: funger 2 takes place in WW2 and magic is very limited in its use as far as i can see so very unlikely marina has had any actual changes in her body) if anyone cares about marina lore: spoilers for fear and hunger/fear and hunger 2!! marina was born into a family of dark priest who worship the "old gods" and use dark magic, primarily blood magic, as well as perform sacrifices and the such. in fear and hunger 1 we see that enki, who is a dark priest, was born a twin and had to kill his sister in order to survive and eventually become enlightened. as time chaged, dark priests became more of a guy thing and women did learn of the dark arts but didn't have to go through all the sacrificing stuff. so, marina was born male and her mother was terrified and wanted her to live a "normal" life so she lied to everyone and said that she had a baby girl. her father knew this wasn't the case but didn't say anything. this saved marina from the typical (and terrible) dark priest life. as marina grew older she realized that she wasn't born female but she didn't mind it and liked living as a girl. the most important thing to note is that, while marina knows magic and she has the changeling soul, MARINA IS NOT ON HRT!! THAT IS A HEADCANNON!! most likely marina's "breasts" are actually a bra.

Okay but to be fair, the game takes place around WW2. I don’t think Marina coulda gone on HRT and nothing in game says she is on HRT in cannon (she is raised as a daughter that wasn’t her idea and she ends up identifying as a girl regardless). I don’t see how this fan art is transphobic at all.

can we just take a moment to admire how actually top tier that art is. this was so overblown smh.

WHAT THE F ARE THEY MAD ABOUT SUCH COOL FANART OF MY QUEEN MARINA?

I love this art because I actually see myself in it. Like this is basically the ideal version of myself, to an extent, and seeing people shit on it is really invalidating. It seems like a lot of the time the trans community online pushes this hyper fem ideal image and ignores trans people who want to look more androgynous.

Honestly she looks more like me than most women depicted in media, im cis, small chest, no hips and broad shoulder

I’m lmao bc I dated a CIS GIRL who looked like this. She did have slightly more in the boob dept but you could see her pecs. She was an athlete, it happens.

That’s a beautiful picture. Very androgynous. Sensual but not sexual. I’m not trans but I think it’s really evocative and I love it. I think it shows a lot of love for the character at least

Idk man, that fanart just made me think about how beautiful trans women are and really made me hope that in the future we get more art and fictional depictions of trans people who don't "pass" perfectly, or even characters who just don't "pass" when they are naked. As a trans person seeing your nude body in the mirror can be one of the worst parts of your day and an acute trigger for dysphoria. Like you spent the day in great makeup, or wearing a binder, clothing that affirms you, and when you take it all off, you look at yourself and somehow feel like such a liar. I think using art to normalize and CELEBRATE our bodies at every stage of transition is a great thing and can help us feel better in those very dark, personal moments

As a trans man who can't transition because of a pre-existing hormonal issues , im so sick of this 🥲. I'm so sick of art/trans depictions HAVING to look ONE WAY or its being ""transphobic"". Like my body is offensive apprently. I dont have top surgery scars so therefore me drawing a boy with breasts is transphobic. Even though thats how im built l. I still have my breasts and therefore if I draw a trans man built like me it's offensive. It's so frustrating and disrespectful to then trans experience to make it seem like being trans is about looking one way or about surgery when that's just not true , theres alot of people cant afford surgery or have medical issues that prevent them from taking hormones. I was passing at one point in my life but became very sick due to my own natural T and now im at a place where I look more female passing. It's frusitng across the board for me and half the reason is because I get so much shit from the trans community for my body. :")))) it's such an unfair standard to set. It's why for like 3 years I went back into the closet and only recently came back out. This is exhausting

I think the art is great, personally. I'm enby, but I was on HRT for 5 months before i got bilateral pulmomary embolism and had my estrogen taken away forever. I appreciate seeing transfemme-without-being-developed representation.

There's also a whole thing in society (which we live in, as you may have noticed) about women's nipples. This whole "long hair covering nipples" motif she's got going on here is quite strongly femme-coded. I took a quick look at the artist's twitter, and there are other characters from this game drawn with this setup of the nude or semi-nude foreground image and the fully dressed headshots in the background. There's guys with their nipples out (two with hair long enough to pose like this, but in both cases the hair goes next to the nipple, not over it), there's women with their nipples out (one without; the caption names her D'arce, she covers her chest with her hands, and if I knew anything about Fear and Hunger I'd be able to say for sure, but it feels like a representation of a character who doesn't want to be seen). In that context, the hair over the nipple motif feels like a very deliberate femme-coding choice. Her face is recognizably feminine, as is the way her hair is styled. But her torso in this art is a bit more twink-shaped. So covering the nipples like that is kinda using the feminine presentation in her hairstyle as a tool to add feminine coding to how her torso is presented. It's such a common thing that you don't have to be an art major to understand what's going on here (example: I'm not an art major). Anyone who says this is transphobic has not seen enough transphobic drawings, which is not something I ever thought I'd say of anyone. One is too many, they're not nice to look at, but honestly, it's good to be able to recognize common themes so that this type of shit doesn't happen. Transphobia rots the brain so thoroughly, there's no way in hell a transphobe would draw a trans woman posed so elegantly and with classic femme-coding elements. Transphobes aim for the opposite! Even a dress when worn in transphobic depictions isn't femme-coding, because it's always drawn as ill-fitting to highlight what the transphobes see as wrongness or failure.

As a binary trans woman who was very insecure at the start of my transition (~6 years ago) I can see how dysphoria and insecurity could be triggered. Most negative reactions to this art are probably by pretty young (and ofc insecure) people who feel that this is bad representation because of their own internalized transphobia. The saddest thing is that they are not wrong within broader cultural context because they get met with hate for who they are every single day. I just feel for them because I can see myself reacting like this a few years ago. :(

A few other people have said similar things, but just to explain: F&H2: Termina is set in 1942 alternate history Europe. The earliest uses of HRT that I could find occurred /in/ 1942 and it didn’t come into common use until the 1960’s. While other forms of medical intervention did exist before this, Marina is from a devoutly religious backwater town, and later lived in Vatican City during WWII: she likely wouldn’t have access to surgical intervention. While from what we know about magic in this universe it is possible that with time and practice Marina could essentially medically transition, she has limited magical knowledge and at the time of the game would not know how to preform this magic. In game it is ambiguous if she has breasts or not: more likely than not she wears a bra and possibly stuffs it a little. Not that it matters but to be clear I’m a trans guy, I have played F&H, and I adore Marina. This artist did a wonderful job rendering her in all her ethereal beauty.

bro i would get flamed by these people if they saw my art. i love drawing non passing trans people as someone who doesn’t pass myself. it’s comforting for me. also the artist drew the character in such a beautiful, respectful way. it’s such a shame when people get harassed for drawing minorities because it makes artists scared of drawing them

This strange claim that the drawing depicted is "just as bad as the whole men in dresses thing" is obviously very harmful to pre-hrt transwomen/transfems, there's no debate there. Though, I'd also like to bring up that it sort of goes both ways. As a trans-masc person who can't medically transition due to health concerns, I'd argue it's somewhat damaging to all trans/gender queer people who identify/present as a gender typically different from their natural body type that can't/won't/hasn't yet medically transitioned. It almost reinforces the whole body stereotype thing of "man body look like this" and "female body look like that". I totally understand why they might have panicked and reacted like that though, I might have very well done the same if not for watching this video. Thank you for explaining it in a way I could understand ❤

Trans bodies are beautiful, I love when people draw realistic trans bodies, it isn't enough to just put some lines on the chest of a shirtless man who would otherwise be perceived as cis, not that people don't look like that but that's not the norm, most trans people don't look like most art drawn of us

They didn't give Marina any tits because Fear and Hunger 2 takes place in the 1940s inside of a border town between F&H's version of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia... There's dark magic and shit in the Fear and Hunger universe, but no HRT magic. I have a feeling a lot of the people mad about this probably don't know anything about Fear and Hunger and are just assuming this is transphobic based off of that. Incredibly misguided rushing to conclusions, as usual. It's unfortunate. On a separate note, Fear and Hunger 1 and 2 are both really good games (and have based takes within). I would agree it's sort of edgy "just because", but it usually says things with that oppressive atmosphere. Also, the first game was openly a vent project for the creator, so even the more egregious stuff gets a pass I feel. In Fear and Hunger 2 Vampire Hitler who was also actually based off of Griffith and was a totally-not-evil party member from the first game turns a lady into a supercomputer to control the moon god dimension during the moon god's battle royale, and if that plot point doesn't interest you to at least look into it, you are categorically lame and cringe. And its not a rogue-like, you just get very limited saves in the first game and saving in the second game is both story and gameplay altering in ways you don't want to use too often, so you usually go large swaths or entire runs of the game not saving. In fact, I think it might be considered one of the only modern examples of the "rogue game" genre that the rogue-like genre was based off of.

As a trans person myself I have quite a few trans oc’s from fully closeted and non passing to fully transitioned and well passing. Because we are not a monolith, we come in all manner of beautiful variety. As an artist I try to show that even if my character is visibly trans, they can still be beautiful in addition to it not in spite of it. Trans people don’t instantly go from closeted to fully transitioned in a day, it often takes years to fully pass if that’s even the goal for that specific person. It’s okay to draw trans people who don’t fully pass , as long as you do it in a respectful way and don’t make a caricature. Trans people come in all shapes and sizes and just because someone doesn’t pass doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be represented in art and other forms of media. I’ve actually seen some trans fems who draw themselves with some facial hair or a more masculine body type, and I’ve seen trans men who draw themselves with breasts . Because at the end of the day, no matter what we look like, we’re still trans and we’re still valid and beautiful .

I’m only a year into medical transduction, but she pretty much has my body type. Kinda nice to see

Feels kinda sad as a cis woman who looks like the fanart lol

An important fact about Marina is that the time period in-game is roughly 1940’s(I don’t remember the year exactly). Marina didn’t have access to things like HRT, and likely just uses a bra underneath her clothes. And about the representation, the main moment where Marina being trans is brought up is where she meets with her father, who misgenders her.

It's very kind of you to be empathetic to those of us who get dysphoria seeing images like that. As someone with my own discomforts around it, I can fully admit it's a me-thing (and not beat myself up about it being a me-thing), and I'm unsure why others in my boat can't seem to do the same. There's this segment of lefty trans twitter that legit seems to project those insecurities into a sort of social critique and it always wreaks of a kind of intense weakness and inability to confront what one wants to improve.on within themselves being projected outward as a means to keep one in idled stagnation by "ruthlessly critiquing" everything else (selectively, of course.) Anyway, great segment as always, keep it up Conure. ❤

I guess people don't realize that this could be NB representation but I guess everything has to be binary

it's really hard to draw any sort of trans representation ngl. I'd say it has to do with the variety of how trans people may look. I can see why many could find it offensive if you just draw a cis character and slap the trans label on them and I can also see how people can find it offensive if you even try to draw closer to what may resemble some trans people's bodies because of the essense that many trans people just want to be able to have their body pass more as a cis person. It's obviously going to be near to impossible in trying to draw some sort of trans representation that would appeal to ALL trans people because the trans experience is so different for everyone. someone starting to transition is going to have completely different experiences than someone who's been transitioning for years and is able to pass as the gender they identify as. edit: I'd also like to add that this artist did not in any way draw the trans character in a hypermasculine way. It was purely androgynous. I'd find it more reasonable if people were upset had the artist drawn them more masculine but I don't think people should be that overly upset at this artwork just because it wasn't the most feminine depiction of the character, even hyperfeminizing them just to appeal to the internalized transphobia and more severe dysphoria that some transfems have.

An important part to mention, Marina isn't on HRT, the game is set during the 1940s. Pretty sure any ingame depiction of Marina having breasts are outdated and replaced with her being flat. I don't think anything in the game implied her being on HRT or having undergone topsurgery besides outdated art in a still in progress game

There’s young cis woman who look a lot like this, especially in sports! I dated a soccer player who had a body very similar to this back in my twenties! Although she was more muscular, had a more masculine jawline, a scar on the chin, an attitude like a dock worker, and short blonde hair, and could probably go for being a young man if she wasn’t always very feminine dressed, and her small breasts became more noticeable due to how she dressed!

I GOT BLOCKED BY THEM BECAUSE I SAID “I think she looks really beautiful” THEY EVEN HID MY REPLY Edit: it was not Frenchie, it was someone else who said that the art made their soul die. I wasn’t aware there were other haters

i find it so odd that in the process of complaining about trans erasure, they erase trans experiences that aren’t 100% fem/masc.

I think they are depicted the way they are in large part because the game is set in an alternate 1940's Europe an the setting is so dire that accessing HRT seems very unlikely. I could easily see he artist interpreting the game art as Marina can't access HRT but just wears a bra under her top which is definitely something I did pre HRT myself. I think she's treated with so much respect in this image, she looks beautiful and powerful I just can't interpret any of this as malicious on the artists part. Very Minor Wano spoiler:. This feels just like in One Piece when Kiku is depicted with her top off after an injury we see she is flat chested and Yamato just having massive boobs but both are still respected as a woman and a man respectively regardless of their ability to access HRT in the world they live in.

Seeing this image made me feel so pretty and represented. I hate that many people seem to forget that all trans people are valid and beautiful, nut just hypermasc/hyperfem, always passing super binary trans people. Its nice to have some representation. If some people don't feel represented by it, some other people might. Don't make everything about yourself. Peace and thanks for your based takes❤

i would like to mention not all women have boobs too, there are entirely cis women who could look like that entirely, and these could be completely normal breasts, the hair hides more of it so we cant properly tell, and cis women can totally have pecks, i know some cis women without any boobs above a double A cup, and their chests look very similar to male chests!

MARINAAAAAAA FUNGERRRRRRRR I funking love funger < extremely mentally unwell about Fear and Hunger :3

It's in the way the hair covers her chest, it's a historical way of artistic censorship on female models, the artist applying that to Marina acknowledges her as a woman.

Im a trangender woman and i actually wish there was more art of trans women and also characters who have male body characteristics. I think its beautiful and part of who i am, and its also something i had to work really hard to find beautiful and make it ok in my mind that my body looks like it does, and its actually really therapeutic to see. Seriously, more people please make transfeminine characters who have male body characteristics portrayed in a respectful manner

I’ve never seen people complaining like this when trans men are depicted with breasts instead of binders, top surgery scars or just censored chests…

32:21 she has my face. I have a strong jawline like she does and I’m a cis woman. I personally find a jawline attractive across genders.

This is funny for me cuz i just got into the funger fandom lol

As an artist, there are various reasons influencing the portrayal of a character in a particular way. To truly understand these choices, it is crucial for the artist to be candid about their creative process leading to the final depiction. For instance, one possible process involves initially sketching a figure pre-HRT as part of a broader study of the human form, lacking a specific direction. The result may resemble a generic mannequin, yet the artist finds a genuine appreciation for the outcome. Transforming a practice sketch into a completed piece, they become inspired and discern the emerging character within the drawing, subsequently incorporating relevant details. Satisfied with the result, they share it with acquaintances, garnering positive feedback. Ultimately, the artist decides to showcase their creation to a wider audience, only to face an unexpected backlash and accusations of transphobia. It's essential to acknowledge that interpreting an artist's stance solely through their artwork is inherently subjective, and assuming malintent can be a reflection of personal biases. Art perception varies widely, much like how a photo of a naked baby in a bathtub can be seen as a beautiful moment by one viewer and inappropriate by another. It's crucial to recognize that personal interpretations of art may reveal more about the viewer's perspectives than the artist's intentions. As a trans woman, I personally find no offense in the drawing and encourage those who express discontent to consider their own biases before casting judgment.

honestly i don't know if this is anything, but the fact that the tweet says "cis people, afab especially" just feels really off to me. i know that a lot of cis woman "allies" do stuff that's harmful, and that should be discussed and called out when it actually happens, but drawing attention to the agab of the person you're criticizing just reeks of bio-essentialism to me. i don't know if that was the intention, but that's what the wording choice made me think about. to give some possibly needed context for my own takes on this, i feel like i should say that i'm not trans. but i'm not exactly cis either. i'm not gonna get into all the complexities of my own identity, but seeing bio-essentialism and transmedicalism (via implying women who look like the girl in the fanart are "not real women") still run so rampant in the trans community is really disappointing. i feel like everybody needs to be reminded of the fact that your physical body is not the same as your gender identity. having boobs isn't what makes you a woman, therefore not having boobs doesn't make someone any less of a woman.

as a transgirl myself seeing other trans women depicted in a way that looks so similar to me is really affirming and euphoric

Its such a beautiful fanart

It's a good picture. Wokescolds will byatch about anything.

I think its also worth noting that there are some trans women who cannot do HRT due to medical issues or just plain inaccecibility. Especially in fantasy worlds i think its interresting to explore how one can transistion without modern science, as trans people in history has existed and transistioned as much as they could.

Marina in that art looks a lot like some of my friends, and that makes me happy.

The people outraged by this are showing their transphobia. Just like always, their transphobia stems from their insecurities.

they should be getting mad at the people using futa tags for her instead of just lesbian lol. and if anything its nice to see masc body types for trans characters cause it makes people like me that arent gifted being able to pass, to feel more comfortable with ourselves.

why are people so pissed about this? she’s draw so beautifully and feminine.

I love this artist work, seeing them get backlash for it despite it being accurate to the character was heartbreaking. Also they got some heat for how they drew karin too like??

Marina with shorter hair and male coded clothing is just Levi, who btw has a stockier build in game than this fan art because he's canonically an ex-soldier.

Its really funny that marina is compared to Griffith when there is a real griffith character in Fear and Hunger

she from the middle ages, they aint got no hrt back then

her chest and shoulders look pretty masc but other than that ive literally seen female models with the same features?? comparing this to an offensive caricature makes me think that person has never seen an actual caricature --

I don't see the 'transphobia' in this art. Firstly it's good art and the character is portrayed tastefully and beautifully. I'm pre-HRT trans fem and my body looks pretty much like this. Like conure said most real anti-trans 'art' portrays as us ugly crossdressers (like in the one One Piece episode). Thank you for talking about this because lots of trans fems and fem leaning non-binary people look more or less as the fan art especially when we are in early stages of transition.

Transmeds calm tf down challenge = failed But on a serious note it's actually really sad and hurtful to see people acting like this, especially as a pre HRT trans person.

I took a quick at the character on Google image. Do we know that Marina doesn't do something like wear a padded bra to get her feminine look? Her clothes look fairly cotheres so it looks a little unclear if she uses clothes and other grooming with an 18 year old body. The fanart looks like exploration of her body that slightly emphasis masculine elements? Which doesn't mean she is not a woman.

This fanart is gorgeous. Very sweet. Great job, Comrade Pyro.

Spoilers for F&H but Marina is unironically one of my favorite trans rep in a game. Deadlymarceline made a good video on her character. Her being trans isn't portrayed as a negative thing and even when Nas'hrah mentions he knows she's trans he still calls her a lass. I'm pretty sure Miro himself said Marina was a girl Also idk why people think HRT in F&H is far fetched. Yes it takes place in the 40s but they also have literal occult magic that can alter flesh. Given Marina studied the occult i don't think it would be that hard to get some boobas. But yeah this discourse is stupid, the art is cute.

I went a full year full time as myself without HRT and I was sometime doing naked self portraits like this to make my body feel more femme and to make myself feel better. For the fan art, I think yeah that the pose could have been better and the body could have been less muscular based on the character but I like it. I think it is good to represent pre HRT trans bodies in ways that vibe with their personal gender. From what I understand the artist thought that the character was using a bra but was not doing HRT. The critics were reactionary, but hey this is how twitter train people.

I feel like the tasteful hair covering over her chest is such a feminine thing? You don't usually use hair to censor a male chest, so it just by default feels very fem even with the more pec-like structure of her chest.

The thing is, the game is set around 1940's and HRT treatments didn't start development until 1960's. So I guess that might be a reason why the artist didn't give Marina hrt breasts. I think that maybe giving Marina a slightly less defined body would had helped. In the game she doesn't look like she has her body so defined, even under the skirt you can feel like she has a little bit of a tummy. Maybe just doing a more "average / not chubby yet not toned body" would had helped!

I especially hate the idea of ppl using the artists more realistic style against them as if its transphobic to give a woman a jawline. In the game she is very doll-like and depicted with a super rpunded jaw. But that jaw is stylized to be more anime-esque, whike the fanart is more realistic in proportions. She still has her huge doll-like eyes, her thin nose, and full lips. Her jawline is just *more realistic* and actually looks like there is a jawbone in there. Cis women have jaws too. Same idea with her chest and her shoulders. The game art has her in a blouse and, presumably, a bra/corset of the time. Either one could pad out the chest to give her but of a boob-bump. But in the fanart she isnt wearing anything, so of course her shoulders are more broad looking, and her chest is flatter than if shes wearing *a flowy blouse* . The same clothing would have the same illusion on a cis woman- corset lifts and enlarges the look of breasts, and flowy blouses mask the bodys actual size in different areas. Her blouse is also made to have a flatter square collar, with a loose body starting at the chest, which is a cut made to accentuate the chest. So to me, it totally makes sense for her to be depicted as non-hrt flat-chested. Honestly as a more realism-centred artist myself I think she looks super feminine, very delicate and elegant and doll-like, in a *realistic way* instead of a largely exagerated way that just fully rounds out all of her features. Shes a trans woman depicted as a trans woman in a very respectful and realistic way. People being mad over something like this is absolutely insane. These folks need to go touch grass, and maybe meet an actual trans woman in the process.

Side note, I also recommend Worm Girl, I love her narration about Fear and Hunger.

26:07 “like a male underwater model” Call the police, that “male pose” is one of my favorite poses when I’m posing in the mirror…

The reality is that many trans/enby people, either due to choice, lack of access to resources, or genetics, have a mix of masculine and feminine physical attributes. Yeah, I love positive representation but even more I _love_ diverse trans representation. Cis passing isn't and shouldn't be the required result for every person real or fictional. The people freaking out feel like overly sensitive allies who really don't understand trans culture and reality and are knee-jerk over reacting on behalf of the trans community.

22:50 i love how literally every single issue can be reduced to MEN BAD GIRLS GOOD

I think anither point that I'm kind surprised that no one brought up is that the small breasts we see shaped in the clothes might be fake, like the silicone ones some trans people and crossdressers use. Heck, even small breasted cis women will fill their bras to make them feel better. I haven't played Fear And Hunger despite wanting to for ages now (I'm too much of an anxious chicken) so I might be talking out if my ass, but from the design of the character alone, the idea that she still has a pre-hrt body doesn't sound farfetched to me.

not all trans bodies look the same. I love depictions of realistic and ''pre-medically transitioned'' people. There's also the fact that the breasts in the official artwork could also just be padding or something. this fanart is just a headcanon idea and it is very beautiful.

I consider myself a lesbian and I see that picture as that of a pretty girl, so, like, I don't get it.

Man if this beautiful woman walked up to me to speak, I would be red and incoherent. She's absolutely gorgeous

Honestly the art is very beautiful and respectful. And face wise she is very similar to me (afab/ non binary), and honestly the fact that this gets called "transphobic" when we see art of hyper feminized transmasc characters (even though canonically they are very much male/masc presenting) get praised for being good trans rep, just shows the blatant misogyny with in Twitter. Like it just tells that to them trans people are only allowed to exist if they conform to the male gaze

i was not expecting to see fear and hunger 2 termina on this channel

Honestly, and look I am talking as someone who while AFAB doesn't fit the "nonbinary stereotype" which is often skinny, androgynous masc features (basically AFAB folks because we're just women lite and AMAB nonbinary folks don't exist -- heavy on the sarcasm), and also I know pre-op trans women, I am dating a nonbinary person who is more femme presenting but isn't AFAB, seeing art like this really helps normalise bodies that don't "pass". I have always hated that weird transmed shit that seems to keep rearing its ugly head. Trans binary and nonbinary people don't owe ANYONE, including fellow trans folks, the ability to "pass". This shit is so hurtful, and it is maddening that it happens so often, especially from people within your community. If I saw way more nonbinary people with the same body as mine, I would be so happy. Thus, having art that depicts trans women in pre-hrt/pre-op bodies makes trans women less alone, and this also pertains to trans men too. Everybody is deserving of love and respect no matter where you are in your transition timeline. Whether you want to go and get surgeries or if you don't. You are still 100% valid for it.

This reminds me of the people in the autistic community who will dogpile other autustic people who stim for "infantilizing" themselves and basically blaming them for the existence of ableism bc they were just being themselves

I wish I could draw like that!

You've summoned the Funger horde.

I feel like often this is both cis people and trans people that sadly got it in their head that unless you are “done” with your transition, you haven’t “switched” yet. I think they use that misguided idea when looking at art like this and they themselves saw a guy as a result, figured that was the artistic intention, and the self hatred activates causing wildly incorrect ajd presumptive takes.

I think it’s crazy how for trans women artist HAVE to draw them after surgery, after HRT, make them look as feminine as possible or else your transphobic. BUT for trans males it’s okay to draw them with a binder, long bottom lashes, BEFORE surgery and BEFORE hrt. Make them look like a cutie fem boy.

I'm not the level of artist thtat Pyro_cri is but I've been looking at the proportions of the official art and the proportions of the art that Pyro did and it is 100% possible for the character Marina drew to fit under the dress that Marina is wearing in the official art and look relatively the same. If anything Pyro drew Marina's features even more feminine than the official art. Officially Marina's waist seems to match her shoulder width, which is typically a more masculine trait, where Pyro seemed to give Marina a more inward curve. It's basically just dogpiling on an artist for literally no discernable reason because they happened to draw Marina in the buff.

Seeing this video show up on my feed, I honestly had no idea this artwork had discourse surrounding it. I remember when the tweet first showed up on my timeline and simply thinking, "whoa, she looks so beautiful," liking and then going about my day. It might just be that I'm bi/pan, but there's an unconventional beauty in the androgynous features of mid-transition or non-binary bodies that I rarely get to see portrayed so romantically in art. It's sht like this that really makes me stop and realize the different forms of beauty that the human body is capable of. It's just a shame that we can't just sit in pure appreciation of something that deserves to be seen for how beautiful it is.