Applicable through modern lense is exactly the issue with a lot of ASOIAF fans.

OTTO IS THE TRUE VILLIAN OF THIS ENTIRE STORY. HE PLANTED THAT HATEFUL ENVIOUS SEED IN ALICENT'S NAIVE HEAD

Rhaenyra the whore vs Alicent. More accurate than your views.

She is miserable! Keep out of farther and daughter relationships, you could have raised your weird sons and got them to bend the knee to their sister if she loved them so much at least they would still love rich x and this guys voice nearly sent me to sleep 🙄

Have you been watching the show? Alicent was not "sneakily trying to bone" Viserys, she was pressured and forced by her father into doing so, in a society where women have no rights and just have to do whatever their family says. Blaming Alicent for that is ridiculous. As for defending Rhaenyra's lying, she swore on her dead mother and in front of a Godswood which is a sacred religious symbol, and lied to her best friend, causing said best friend to go against her father, causing her father to be removed from court. All of this shows Alicent is genuinely good natured and wants to do the right thing, but was literally lied to and betrayed by her friend.

@@meterod just because her father “forced” her to seduce Viserys doesn’t mean she had to. No one was around when she was with the king so she very well could’ve done whatever she wanted and as for defending her lying to her best friend about said relationship is ridiculous Just cuz her dad forced her doesn’t mean she had to keep it from her best friend especially when she knew what would happen to their relationship once it came out. Also Warewood trees are not sacred to the Targaryen’s they are only sacred to the children the forest and the first men. Alicent was the one who started with the lying and of course once u catch someone in a lie the trust is gone so no I don’t feel bad that Rey lied to her about her sex life. They weren’t friends like that anymore at that point. And it isn’t Reys fault Alicents dad is A conniving snake blaming Rey as the reason he got fired, no no he got fired because the truth came to light about what a conniving snake he was and The fact that he wasn’t impartial in the advice he had been planning from the beginning to have his grandsons take the throne from Rey.

@@lizzystar5346 You seem to have no understanding of medieval context and how little rights women had back then. If your father told you to marry someone you did it, or else your family could disgrace and disown you and you would be ruined. Alicent simply did her duty to her family, getting mad at her for that is ridiculous and makes 0 sense. Blame her father, not her. Great to see you completely ignore Rhaenyra lying on her dead mother and still attempt to justify it. Please show me one instance of Alicent lying to anyone. Alicent's defense of Rhaenyra was extremely important to Viserys, and was a huge part of the reason why Daemon was the one who got banished. Even so, Rhaenyra was still punished for screwing around by being forced to marry Laenor. You seem to hate Alicent and ignore any of the actions which prove she is a genuine person, like the fact she went against her own father in defense of her friend beause she believed Rhaenyra to be telling the truth.

@@meterod Alicent has showed that she is only pious and good-natured when it’s convenient for her she’s a hypocrite. In that same Conversation where you say Ray was so wrong to lie to her about her sex life she literally says that they have queer customs (the Targaryen’s) says basically the incest they do is wrong but yet when it convenient for her she weds her son and daughter… She can lie about dating her dad and run around behind her back and yet she expects the truth about someone else’s sex life all the while she was able to lie about hers just because her daddy told her to seduce the king… Actions have consequences and Allison fucked up her friendship with Rey at that point she should’ve never expected anything from Reynera. Alicent is nothing more then a jealous hypocrite And A bit narcissistic expecting everyone to be on their best behavior be pious and moral just like her but the truth is that she isn’t all that good she is toxic as hell!

@@meterod Alicent lied to Rey by keeping the fact that she was dating her dad and might become her step mom. How can u not see how wrong that is especially because of how close they were. Alicent lied about how she thought incest and Targaryen customs were weird and wrong Cuz she turned around and wed her son and daughter. Don’t ever expect for someone to catch you in a huge lie and betrayal and yet still expect the truth from that person regarding anything you might ask them especially when it regards their personal sex life just fyi. And yes it is a medieval context but the Hightower’s would have never disowned Alicent just because she didn’t seduce the king. Otto knew Alicent was the ticket to more power or a better standing. If she had failed to seduce the kind and have him pick her, her dad might have been mad at her for not doing better but he would have never disowned her for that. The hightowers are to well known and to high up for Otto to get away with doing that to her. Allison is just super jealous that Reynera basically got to pick and choose who she wanted to marry and that she got to have sex with who she wanted to unlike her. And she’s super jealous of the relationship she has with her father the king. Even though she gave the king sons he would not named them heir to the throne. That pissed her off too. Nothing to do with Reg herself just the fact her dad prefers her over the sons Alicent gave him.

If anything. Alicent reminds me a little of Caitelyn. Desperate to do the right thing in every situation, but nothing works out the way she wanted.

viserys was a great king, he fought no wars and kept peace, by far one of the best characters in the show. and i agree i liked Rhaenyra and Alicent at the begining of the show, but later on they are just both horrible, i think rhaenyra is a little worse then alicent but yeah

@@hakone1841 how is Rhaenyra worse then Alicent because her eldest three are bastards? Laenor are infertile along with being gay if Rhaenyra had no son's Alicent still would have gone out of her way to torment Rhae for one small lie. Plus I'm never going to defend Alicent this women bullied three little boys who never directly hurt her in any way beyond being Rhae sons and ignored her own children everyone like to say Viserys is a bad parents Alicent has shown she's just as bad

In light of recent events Iive come to the the error if my ways of judging Alicent. House of the Dragon plot is essentially a dumpster fire outside of Chucky cheese and I'm just here for the drama

@@breannaharris307 lol xD

Yes and Harwin and Rhaenyra were not married, so the kids are very clearly bastards. If the argument is practicality because her husband was gay, she could have chosen a Valyrian lover so her kids wouldn't be so obvious, Rhaenyra very clearly broke the rules and had obvious bastards.

Not really her kids look Baratheon and her husband mother is a Barateon and before you come for me in the books laenor's mother Rhaenys is a Barateon and look like one too and in the show she does not and it is unlikely that laenor's the father to Rhaenyra kids but if you look at it genetics laenor's can still be the dad because he has Barateon blood and Rhaenyra kids look Baratheon

@@shandayoung4754 Rhaenys in the show clearly does not have Baratheon looks, and her kids in the show are clearly bastards, who look exactly like Harwin Strong.

@@meterodpeople will do all types of mental gymnastics to justify Rhaenyra’s actions.

I agree with your first point, a huge part of it is certainly envy, but that isn’t helped by Rhaenyra shirking her duties. It’s unfair to completely label her talks with Aegon as manipulation, again given the medieval context those are all reasonable claims she makes and Aegon is wilfully blind to the threats at court, and she is a mother who wants her son to be safe. Rhaenyras kids being Targaryens through her doesn’t matter if they aren’t legitimate, Bastards cannot inherit lands unless legitimized and even then there’s a huge stigma (See Blackfyre Rebellions) it’s ridiculous that Viserys instead of punishing his daughter for having three obvious bastards and breaking her duties, cuts the tongues out of people for pointing out the obvious truth that they are bastards, that is just living in delusion.

@@meterod The wants of the court do not necessarily equate a threat at court. The Lords may want a male heir but if Alicent and her children had remained obedient to the king's wishes and supported Rhaenyra's claim, the Lords could have kicked their heels until their boots flew off to no avail. I'm sure many Lords were less than thrilled at Sansa being Queen in the North but with no opposition and a unified front, there was very little they could do about it. And Rhaenyra's children were born within the confines of a legal marriage and are thus innately considered legitimate. This is why Alicent and Ser Criston bait Laenor and Ser Harwin with their comments and insinuations about the children. They are trying to goad them into admiting who fathered the boys because, as long as Laenor claims them, that is the only way to delegitimize them. I hope I'm not coming across as combative with my thoughts but I'm really enjoying HotD and never get tired of talking about/dissecting it with anyone else interested in it.

It may be manipulating Aegon, but she is also preparing him for a political reality. Rhaenyra may well have not tolerated a competitor for the crown, even one indifferent, if not supportive, as Aegon might have been under different circumstances. He would have been seen as a threat, regardless of any good intentions he may have had, and he should guard himself accordingly.

@@NeoDarkling No Rhaenyra's children were not born in the confines of a legal marriage because Laenor is not their father. That's the definition of being born out of wedlock, when one of your parents isn't married and fathers or mothers you outside of that marriage. It's like a contract, which stipulated that Rhaenyra would produce heirs fathered by Laenor and they aren't his kids. And therefore according to legal precedent and cultural tradition in Westeros, those kids are bastards and can't be in the line of royal succession. But also the threat at court and amongst the nobility is very real. A King cannot rule effectively if their Lords and vassals are constantly questioning or undermining his authority. Remember these are powerful families with immense wealth, political connections and the ability to summon armies. If they start refusing to pay taxes or start re-organizing lands in protest to a female heir, you as a King can't overlook that. Even if Alicent is loyal to Rhaenyra More importantly what King Viserys did goes against thousands of years of tradition and it threatens succession beyond the Iron Throne in terms of creating the precedent that the King can skip over the male line of succession and name an heir. Honestly war was inevitable when Viserys dug his heels in even after Aegon was born

Did you just say Viserys was rotting?! I just literally laughed out loud. And, I agree with everything you have said.

In the books, yeah. In the show, she's been shown to have been comfortable with the idea of Rhaenyra being the heir until their falling out. And her reasons to dislike her are more personal.

A legit illegitimate is still illegitimate A marriage isn't just an agreement between two people but two families and because Rhaenyra didn't live up to her end of the bargain then she swindled her Velaryon in-laws

She's a spoiled brat who gets to flaunt her bastards unchallenged while even other highborn people don't have that kind of privilege

She knew before marriage that he couldn’t father her children and did nothing to ensure that her bastards at least looked a bit like Leanor. She was entitled and thought herself above consequences. If she admitted her sons were bastards she could have still legitimized them as Targaryens. Maybe Jaceherys could have made a name as a bastard king if she still remained heir. But Lucerys inheriting driftmark was full on bs for the true blooded Velaryians. The only way that would’ve made sense is if he married Baella or Rhea. But that would mean she would have to own up to it.

How did I discount medieval context when it supports Rhaenyra?

She tried to have Aemond tortured

It's not a moral question, it's a political game and Rhaenyra so far isn't good at playing it. It sucks that Westeros is so deeply sexist and socially stratified but that's the reality and Rhaenyra or Viserys can't undo thousands of years of tradition and culture. The reason oppressive systems like slavery or Jim Crow changed is because the societal conditions in place allowed for that change to happen, creating rooms for resistance and upheaval. Westeros has been a feudal society for thousands of years. The economic conditions, political structure and social attitudes don't leave much room for people to resist oppression. Also there's nothing progressive about Rhaenyra being queen nor is there anything liberating about her pursuing her own desires (good for her though). Her being a woman on the Iron Throne doesn't change the fact that she'd be an absolute monarch (undemocratic) ruling over a feudal society (where peasants and the smallfolk are essentially slaves to their lords). Unless Rhaenyra destroys feudalism or grants rights to the smallfolk or challenges the privilege's of the nobility, she'll just be like any other monarch. And the reality is Rhaenyra likes being royalty, she enjoys her higher station and privilege...but her power, and that of her family, is built on the backs of peasants and enforced through violence (or at least the threat of violence)

@@andilezulu292well they could overthrow the current system, but it would have to be done for everybody. Viserys wanted to make an exception for Rhaenyra and only the one exception. Everybody else be damned.

Way to judge a Medievalist world by modern sentiments. Did you even watch the video? Context is king.

Great, hate the girl who gets forced by her father into marrying a widowed old man 😂

@@meterod These normies are incapable of understanding complex characters because there is nothing complex about them.

@@gerardjagroo I'd argue she and her father took advantage of a man who was grieving and worried about his daughters future as the first queen of Westeros. Hes physically ill, lost his wife and only son. Alicent is a young woman who knows what shes doing & is offering him kindness and a future without loneliness. She's described as the most beautiful woman in the kingdom & she also happens to be the daughter of his closest friend who he thought he could trust.... alicent is a product of her environment/circumstance, it doesnt mean shes likeable.

@@gerardjagroo there is nothing complex about attacking someone online for having a different opinion than you :) go touch some grass, Gerard.

Who is "they"? By the time the Dance breaks out half the Lords in Westeros who swore the oath are dead. Her information as I proved in this video is not "toxic", it is a legitimate fear given A. the context of medieval courts in which kinslaying and murder through intrigue were very real possibilities, and B. Rhaenyra's shirking of all laws and traditions, ignoring her own duties. This isn't her being "bitter".

@@meterod She told her young children that their nephews are bastards and if you bend the knee you do it for your house not for you everyone who read the books know what bending the knee means.

@@milanmirkovic4420 They are bastards, that's a fact, Rhaenyra is the one who messed up by having them. As for the other thing you stated, how is that in any way bad? She's promoting loyalty to your family and promoting your family's best interests which everyone at the time does.

@@meterod They are but you don't tell that to a small boy that loses an eye because of that, and again if you read George R.R. Martin's work you know what happens when you break faith, again she has no claim.

@@meterod Oh yeah and she it seems cares only about her sons not so much about her daughter,and she supposed to be this intelligent, strategic character, and yet she does not recognize the importance of Valerian dreamers.