WHY DOES MY TORO SUPER RECYCLER 21564 NOT BACK UP?

Рет қаралды 32,796

11 ай бұрын

#garagegear #toro #lawnmower
WHY DOES MY TORO SUPER RECYCLER 21564 NOT BACK UP? Everyone once and a while I notice that my TORO SUPER RECYCLER 21564 does not BACK UP PROPERLY. Can this BE FIXED? In this video, I explain how the super recycler TRANSMISSION WORKS and some scenarios that seem to bring this PERSONAL PACE PROBLEM around. Is Toro to fully blame or is this USER ERROR? LIKE & SUBSCRIBE!!!
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Пікірлер: 295

@knighthawk86855 11 ай бұрын

The amount of years I've been working on toro SR4, and anything with a personal pace, even the timemaster, there is a sweet spot on the adjustment of the drive cable, if you have the cable adjusted to tight, it will have that issue, give it a try, with the mower in slack untighten the 7/16th bolt, and take just a little slack out of the cable, just so it's just, one click I call it, tighter then slack, then tighten the 7/16th bolt on the adjuster, play with it to find the sweet spot, they all have one, I've found it too on the newer and older Lawn-Boys with their version of personal pace. It's worth a try, if you have the cable to tight it doesn't let the belt loosen enough so the mower can move backward easily. Just a thought, and a problem and cure I have run into with any personal pace system.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the tip! I’ll check it out!

@jamesmisener3006 16 күн бұрын

I bought my Toro super recycler in 1998 with a cast aluminum deck option. I cut 30 lawns a week for 5 years and have continued to use it on my own property since. This mower is tough as nails, dependable, and is the best mulching mower I've ever owned. But from day one, I've experienced the backing up issue, and your suggestion to not jerk it backward is the definitive answer to this problem. Cheers 🇨🇦

@GarageGear 15 күн бұрын

@@jamesmisener3006 those older recyclers are one of a kind!

@The_Mace 11 ай бұрын

Two consecutive weeks of JB putting Toro on blast. The Toro folks are either going to hire you as a product design consultant (which they should), or they're removing you from their Christmas card list.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

I’m definitely on Toro’s naughty list. I might send them coal and a shitty fruitcake. Lol thanks for the laugh

@mrjon75 10 ай бұрын

At least Toro isn't injuring people like Honda. What a way to go out...

@GarageGear 10 ай бұрын

@@mrjon75 hahaha yeah Honda is tearing rotator cuffs lol!

@stever100 11 ай бұрын

I also have the Toro 21564 Super Recycler and I mow my Kentucky Bluegrass twice a week and rarely have an issue with backing up. When I do I push the handle briskly forward against the stop then pull the the handle and mower backwards This action releases the transmission. I love this unit and would not consider another lawnmower. .

@LL-mt2nz 11 ай бұрын

Very true. The SR is best in class.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience with the machine.

@plmn93 3 ай бұрын

Yep. Personal Pace has always been this way, taking 6-8" of forward movement not under power to release. I believe that was even in my manual. You just need to give it a bit of a shove before you back up. It takes some getting used to, but it's never been an issue for me. Still much prefer Personal Pace to other systems.

@MyGreenLawn2019 11 ай бұрын

I have noticed the system sticking sometimes on my 2 toro time masters. But then I just lift up the handle and all is good. I have used fluid film to lube the system and it seems to be a temp fix. I have noticed it a lot on my Honda mower, I can’t remember the model off the Honda mower but it uses the thumb system to engage the transmission. I guess I will have to take a closer look at it to see if I can determine the issue. I basically only use it to attach my big league lawn stripper to… lol great video brother

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this my friend! I think the Honda you’re mentioning is the hrn model or maybe an older version. Hope all is well bud!

@MyGreenLawn2019 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear I will have to look into the model number of the Honda. I will post here once I do. I appreciate your videos brother

@a.a.carpenter754 11 ай бұрын

I have several Lawn Boy 10550s which have the Easy Stride system. I am not sure if Lawn Boy designed the system or if Toro did. Toro owned Lawn Boy at the time the easy stride system came out in the late 90s. All of my easy stride mowers have had that issue. The easy stride is an identical system to what you have. I usually try to bring the handle back to its extended position when I stop. Ratcheting drive gears would have been nice!

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

100% accurate, my friend. It definitely would have been nice.

@chrismoerschel1870 10 ай бұрын

I am a new owner of this mower. I have had the issue you describe. But to honest it does not disuade me from recommending this mower. I have the older front wheel drive Recycler with the 190cc engine; it works fine. Maybe I put up with small frustrations without thinking it could be better. If there is a better machine with Smart Stow capabilities I would like to know about that machine? Maybe if Toro put the drive on the front wheels it would have solved the issue, but then again I could imagine an engineer probably considered ALL the possibilities before concluding that the rear wheel design was the only possible way to achieve what was required.

@GarageGear 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing Chris!

@davekirkpatrick5724 3 ай бұрын

I just bought this mower from Menards on 30 Mar 24. Used it that day, and I can’t stand this mower. Rear wheels lock up almost every time when trying to pull it backwards. The mower cuts well, but is heavy and very difficult to maneuver. On the second use it also seems to not be propelling itself and can’t climb a slight incline. I talked to Menards today and they don’t take back mowers that have been used.

@GarageGear 3 ай бұрын

Hey Dave! I feel your pain! If you could somehow add a spring mechanism to the transmission you’d probably be good to go

@4x4gear33 11 ай бұрын

For tight corners, I'll push the mower manually. One hand is on the handle bar, and the other is on the stationary bar.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

That’s a good idea. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it, my friend.

@mrjon75 10 ай бұрын

I mean.. yeah!

@billylacharity3443 3 ай бұрын

I have a 12 year old craftsman with a front wheel drive system. This is an old style handle with the one bar for running the mower and the other bar you grab with your fingers to engage the drive (similar to the powersmart you reviewed). If I had been using the drive, and then stop and start backing up, the front wheels lock up. They are not driving forward, but they will not roll backwards. I note I have to stop the drive while still pushing it forward for a few inches, and this unlocks the wheels. Hopefully you understand my explanation.

@GarageGear 3 ай бұрын

Hey Billy I think I get what you’re saying! Thanks for sharing

@tonyinfante7993 11 ай бұрын

I have an older personal pace model 20383 2014-2015 vintage and had this problem while it was still in warranty. Dealer replaced a worn plastic bushing on the pivot point of personal pace handle. It was covered under warranty at the time. Hope this helps. My older Toro still mulches, bags and side discharges quite well.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Good tip here Tony thanks for sharing

@582ChevelleSS 2 ай бұрын

I have the 60V 7.5ah Super Recycler. It has the same issue but i find if you let it roll forward just a touch more you eliminate the back wheels locking up when your backing up. I will fiddle with the cable a bit to see what that does for me as the forward motion seems to have slowed down quite a bit. My biggest complaint about the machine is it is just way to heavy. They should focus on lightening it up a bit :) Thx for you video it was very helpful

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing SS!

@582ChevelleSS 2 ай бұрын

My pleasure 😊

@BenNawrath 11 ай бұрын

Similar issue with my Ego, except no belts. I find that if I engage the self propel and DON’T let it coast just a touch, the ratchet mechanism stays loaded up and won’t let it back up. What I LIKE about my older ego is the self propel lever is just a thumb lever. So I can disengage it and still push the mower (also saves battery by just using it to get rolling, then just push as I go). So as long as I let off the self propel lever before I stop, it’s good. This is the main reason I don’t like this style of drive system where it’s always active, and dependent on the pushing.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

I’ve seen those electric transmissions become problematic for some over the years. Thanks for watching and for sharing.

@alexisballin332 11 ай бұрын

I’ve always been a huge fan of the Super Recycler. The old ones from the 90’s even up through the 2010’s were solid built mowers. This design and poor craftsmanship from Toro on this new model doesn’t make me want to upgrade anytime soon. It’s a shame. I hope Toro hears all the feedback and they go back to their tried and true Super Recyclers. I would rather them raise the price and keep the quality there than have them cut quality to keep their costs down. Also, I think I speak for all the Toro fans here by saying please bring back your old straight shaft personal pace handle design. This new curved design is hideous! Love the content, JB! Keep it coming!

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Appreciate your feedback, Alexis. Thanks for watching!

@LL-mt2nz 11 ай бұрын

There was a podcast with some Toro engineers and they are all in on this curved handle 😮

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

@@LL-mt2nz I’d love to have a talk with them lol!

@TheMarcoBoscolo 4 ай бұрын

I appreciate how you connect with how the user’s use patterns.

@GarageGear 4 ай бұрын

Appreciate you watching Marco! Thank you 👍

@Edward-Norton 2 ай бұрын

Toro really needs to fix this. Like you commented in your video, a light spring that pulls the transmission back down might be the ticket. I have the same drive system on a cheaper version Toro, and it will push forward and backwards hard at times. It makes mowing a workout. The mower mows awesome otherwise. It's the best mower I've ever used when it come to mowing minus this one crappy flaw.

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

If they fixed this this mower would be greatly improved!

@keithg3102 11 ай бұрын

Thanks JB, picked up some more great tips. I adjusted my transmission cable and it cleared my problem with backing up. I haven't used the wd40 on the handle bars yet, but first thing tomorrow they are getting sprayed. What I am battling with on my mower is uneven wheels. With all wheels in the same exact notch,sitting on level concret my front left is always high (about 1 notch). I cannot for the life of me, figure out why. I have to have that one wheel one notch lower than the other 3 or it mows uneven..ever seen this before?

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey Keith! Never seen this before on another mower unless it was broken somehow! My front left wheel is a little off to! Bad build quality! This is what cheating out looks like! Thanks for watching bud.

@keithg3102 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear thanks JB

@mellowjammer 11 ай бұрын

Mine does the same thing.

@c0olj 11 ай бұрын

I have a super recycler with the 190cc engine. First going backwards got kind of tough after a while. Then it got to the point where the left rear wheel would lock up when going backwards. A bit after that the wheel would lock up when making turns. And finally when the mower was off the wheel was locked in forward and reverse unless it was running. This was over a time span of 3 years. I took the problematic wheel off. Removed the black cover, retaining clip, spring, washer, gear, the key in the shaft, and finally the white plastic washer in the very back. It was pretty gross in there. I wire brushed everything. Lubed everything. Put some grease in through the grease fittings in the back. I did this on both wheels and it fixed the issue. Wheels spin freely forward and backwards. There is almost no resistance now when pulling the motor back when it's running. Hopefully this helps someone with this issue.

@GarageGear 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this coolj!

@brodygoalie 2 ай бұрын

So my right rear wheel spins very fast when mowing up hill . No issue on pavement. What do I need to do to get this right rear wheel to move correctly? Thanks!!

@c0olj 2 ай бұрын

@@brodygoalie I'd slightly lift the back of the mower so the wheels are off the ground. Then push the throttle. Both wheels should spin. Try stopping the wheels with your foot. If one is very easy to stop compared to the other. Take that wheel off, take everything apart (gear, spring, clip...etc) clean it all and reassemble and see if it's any better. After I did this, both wheels spun at the same speed.

@brodygoalie 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for your response and will definitely do what your saying. Hopefully this will get my mower moving better!

@chuckgladfelter 28 күн бұрын

I'm under the impression the new Toros aren't made that way. I have a 2007 SR4 Super Recycler and it has the E-clip, spring, gear, notched washer, sprag, white nylon thingy and the rubber washer behind all that. It looks like the new ones have a D-shaped axle and it's a straight drive.

@mikepodorski4272 3 ай бұрын

My first mower was a '99 Toro 20042, old style Super Recyler. I think it was the first or second year for personal pace. That mower had the same clutches at the wheels as the 3 speed models. The clutches wouldn't unlock until the mower rolled forard a touch. I just learned to pull back a bit before stopping. I really liked it. However, this junk doesn't have any clutch at all. Totally different problem. You are always fighting the belt. I know the SR4 had clutches, at least early on. I wouldn't buy a mower built in the last 20 years anyway.

@GarageGear 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this Mike! 👍

@joeraptor1 11 ай бұрын

The issue with the wheels locking up when backing up has been happening with the Toro units since the personal pace transmission came out around 2002. I recall using units with the personal pace back in 2002, 2007, and 2012. All had the same problem. This is one thing that is really perplexing regarding Toro. Many of their units have had flaws for many years and they never do anything to fix it. The personal pace tranny, all the issues with the Timemaster and Turfmaster, and even the commercial 21" Toro I have still has an issue of spitting wet clippings under the left front wheel and then the wet clippings stick to your left rear tire causing clumping. As time as gone on, Toro, like most corporate giants, seem to be cheapening up their product to maximize their profits and bonuses to the CEO and management. Have you tried adding the traction assist handle to the Super Recycler? I believe the new ones are black in colour not blue like you see on the timemaster. Some people have had luck with that in not getting the rear wheels stuck.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this Joe! I haven’t tried adding the traction assist. Wonder if toro will do anything about This going forward.

@joeraptor1 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear Unlikely as long as people keep buying their products. With Honda exiting the lawnmower business along with all the problems they've had with their HRX and HRN series of mowers, Toro will have less and less competition and thus we will be able to take more liberties with their customers. The numbers tell the story. Here are Toro's Q2 results for this year: Toro (NYSE:TTC) Second Quarter 2023 Results Key Financial Results Revenue: US$1.34b (up 7.2% from 2Q 2022). Net income: US$167.5m (up 28% from 2Q 2022). Profit margin: 13% (up from 11% in 2Q 2022). The increase in margin was driven by higher revenue. EPS: US$1.60 (up from US$1.25 in 2Q 2022).

@tomwilliams8675 7 ай бұрын

👍👍👍🤝🤝🇺🇸

@stevepelino5986 3 ай бұрын

Great diagnosing this issue Thank you for your video!!

@GarageGear 3 ай бұрын

You got it Steve! 👍

@hankwoodruff1201 4 ай бұрын

One thing is to make sure your cable isn’t adjusted too tight, next thing is I keep the personal pace system lubed with dry lube spray, also use dry lube spray on the cable. Have zero problems pulling the mower back now!

@GarageGear 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing Hank!

@robsnider7527 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info JB, that gives me some ideas to work with

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

You got it Rob! Thanks for watching bud! 👍

@mikegrappone9078 11 ай бұрын

Awesome video as usual! Thanks

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for checking it out, Mike! Appreciate you watching.

@scottpolenske9224 Ай бұрын

Never had the problem with my personal pace model 20372. I just replaced the transmission today along with new belt and now have the problem. I sort of pull back on the handle a little more of like a mild yank. And it will dis engage and allow it to back up, and on a long run, if I stop using the personal pace and just push it the last couple of feet and have to back up the wheels will be free. I really think this could be a cable sensitivity/setting issue. Going to try and adjust the cable a little next time to give it a little slack or a little more tension and see if that helps.

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this information scott

@joebarzo9935 11 ай бұрын

appreciate all this wisdom shared JB...makes a rainy Saturday bearable spending my time watching @Garage Gear. Remember friends to hit that LIKE button.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Joe, you’re the man! Hopefully, we are in the clear for tomorrow and the rain stays away!

@johnwinters1326 11 ай бұрын

JB, I tried the WD40 with some success, however I found product that seems to work much better in this application. Dupont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant. I sprayed the areas you had suggested an then flipped the handle to the stow position and lubricated from that side. That product coupled with adjusting the cable has gone a long way to eliminating the problem

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Awesome John thanks for sharing! 👍

@Kamov91 2 күн бұрын

did you tighten or loosen the personal pace cable?

@SamSpritzer 2 ай бұрын

I have the 20355 824 which has 2 transmissions hence, 2 cables to adjust. I don't believe you have done a video of that but I surely would love to see what you think of this particular model. Trying to get both cables to sync correctly is like driving a 1961 Mack Thermodyne B51 with a split rear end. Its a constant battle and with the missus doing the lawn last summer, instead of nice neat passes the lawn has nice neat grooves from dragging and over spinning the wheels. The authorized Toro service dealer doesn't think there is anything wrong but if you look careful enough, they don't have any grass to test on. I even wrote to Toro a few times....their silence is deafening! The solution to this? A brand new Ryobi battery powered with a transmission so smooth, you don't even hear the gears grinding!

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this Sam!

@jontheguy595 11 ай бұрын

I have an all wheel drive husqvarna lawn mower that does the same thing when doing short cuts, but mine just has a bail bar to drive it so it's easier to do this but I do have to push it forward alittle bit to get it neutral then I can pull it back works it's sad to say I have an mtd Troy built and a husqvarna and the mtd has the better transmission

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this about Husqvarna and thanks for checking out the channel.

@user-ue8ce8vu8s 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video. It drives me crazy. Wish I knew before I bought it.

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

You’re not the first to tell me this.

@user-ue8ce8vu8s 2 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear Thanks LCN at the time.

@upside_down Ай бұрын

Great video! Had this lawnmower for 3 years and never had the backup issue. I changed the belt today and ... well here I am. Did loosen the wire, didn't help. But doing the slight push forward then back does help, just annoying since it never happened before. Maybe the new belt is too tight.

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

I wonder is the new belt is tighter or slightly smaller than your last . Could have it measured at a repair shop.

@SiXX5150 11 ай бұрын

When I had a previous Toro that had the older more angular handle design (similar to the timemaster), I could easily grab the PP bar and the fixed support bar below it (thus not engaging PP) when in tight spaces. The new handle design is so stupidly large this is now much more difficult. A curved handle? Wtf? Race car inspired? No… just… no. Inspired by someone who has probably never actually used a lawn mower. Most people aren’t going to put the extra thought in - they’re just going to say “this sucks” and either return it, or be upset with the brand because of it. A miss either way for Toro. Goes back to a previous comment I made… marketing & design run by a Potato at this point.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Definitely a miss by toro JC! I think it will be a while before toro smartens up!

@AAa-qd8hb 29 күн бұрын

Straight handle is better with blue traction assist handle

@jpconard 3 ай бұрын

It is not just personal pace ones, regular rwd does it too. Brand new toro did it first mow. Going to get FWD, not going to change how I mow in tight areas. MTD/honda FWD handled this mowing method for 24 years until trans gave out.

@GarageGear 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing Jp!

@dannnthemannn69 11 ай бұрын

I’m looking to buy a lawn mower but it seem you pointed a lot of things that were wrong with this model, what would you recommend I’ve also seen your previous videos but it seems that Honda is the way to go but unfortunately Home Depot nor Lowe’s sell them anymore and you had said that Honda is no longer in the game where could I purchase one or what would be the best alternative? Thanks for making these types of videos

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey Daniel I would give the ariens razor a look! Thanks for watching my friend!

@gcraig0001 2 ай бұрын

The older personal pace machines do the same thing, the new curvy handle isn't the problem. The plain and simple answer is Toro never fixed the design defect that allows this to happen. I've found if I let the mower roll forward slightly as I pull back on the handle, the rear wheels release. It is also essential to adjust the cable that transfers motion from the handle to the belt pulley/transmission bracket. Very small changes can make a big difference. If Toro management wasn't so fixated on profits over customer satisfaction they could easily have the engineers fix the real problem. Since they haven't done so since the Personal Pace system began, I'm guessing those profits are more important to them. Now it's up to consumers to let them know how they feel about this by voting with their pocketbook. There are other brands out there folks. When Toro sales drop, perhaps the leadership will get the message.

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Profits are definitely more important to them! Thanks for watching gcraig

@rdick218 Ай бұрын

with Honda going away please tell us what our other choise is besides a $1500 xmark

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

@@rdick218 if you want anything that’s better built you’re going to have to look at something more commercial. Homeowner stuff nowadays is just built too cheap

@rdick218 Ай бұрын

@@GarageGear I work on automotive automatic transmissions I see cheap junk every day. I thinking about building a bad ass mower. I do organic gardening and grass clipings are the answer. They keep the weeds down and feed the soil. I've been working the shit out of an older Honda. It realy struggles with the grass thats tall and wet. If it has rained in the last 48 hrs forget it. I need POWER! And I have to bag it all. Its a labor of love though. I had no idea what the vegies should tast like before. Whats the bigest engine that will fit on a 21" mower is my question. And where do I get it!

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

@@rdick218 briggs makes a 223cc engine that they put on the timemaster. Not sure where to buy it exactly

@alaincote8525 27 күн бұрын

Also it is necessary to clean the mechanism inside the rear wheels

@GarageGear 26 күн бұрын

It is a good idea to do that at least once a season!

@jeffreybaker7406 Ай бұрын

I had the same problem with a Craftsman machine. I found that if you lift the back of the machine for a few seconds, the wheels will disengage.

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

Still a pain and you should have to do that

@jeffreybaker7406 Ай бұрын

@@GarageGear Shouldn’t 😂

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

@@jeffreybaker7406 thanks for the correction

@georgedrake1430 11 ай бұрын

That what I like about front wheel drive I never had that happen

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Got a point there!

@joebrown9621 9 ай бұрын

The Drive wheel locking up could be the cable adjusted overly aggressive.. i like mine aggressive but too much and it does cause issues.. don't use WD-40 on the slide for the personal pace instead use a dry lubricant like silicone or Teflon.. it stays way clean plus dirt does stick to it worsen it over time.. check the personal pace cable rout as it's definitely catching.. it maybe a result of the added features of yours the electric start.. the spring could be stronger however the model without i have not experienced any issue

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing joe

@gpalmerify 11 ай бұрын

LOL JB callin' out Toros Design Team (and Marketing) for their "Race Car Inspired Design) love it. Our Personal Pace LawnBoy had a straight metal upper handle that we never had to maintain, didn't check the drive since it never gave us trouble. It was an expensive model but not considered commercial.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Gotta call them out! Their quality is headed downhill! Thanks for watching gpal! Stay awesome my friend!

@mellowjammer 11 ай бұрын

I complained to Toro about the curved handle the first day it came out. What a stupid idea. Let's introduce unnecessary friction to a system which used to be linear and worked fine. Marketing stupidity! They condescendingly tell you that you're wrong. Just like I told them when I bought my 2012 Timemaster that the engine was underpowered and it needed the 223cc professional series engine. They told me that I was wrong and the engineers determined it was completely unnecessary. Guess what they did in 2017? EXACTLY what I told them in 2012...they put the 223cc engine on the mower. I used to be a Toro guy but they have pissed me off with poor customer service and dwindling quality over the years.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

@@mellowjammer toro is definitely dwindling

@AAa-qd8hb 29 күн бұрын

Straight handle is better with blue traction assist handle

@victoryvisiontour 9 ай бұрын

I have a similar issue with my Super Recycler 60V model. However, the wheels don't lockup. The mower is just a bit more resistant to backing up. I suppose it's the same root cause though. Toro says to push the mower forward a bit then backup again. It seems to work. I'll try your suggestions too. Thanks!

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

There’s a lot to fix on this mower wether it’s battery or gas. Toro needs to get their act together.

@mkzenthusiasts 11 ай бұрын

My personal pace with the Honda Engine has Grease Zerks on each wheel and if those areny greased properly it will bind up model number 20832

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this mkz!

@mkzenthusiasts 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear I hate that KZfaq changed my name to my channel name - I'm better known in the lawn community as Christopher Berg not that anyone really knows me but still. I really wish I could change that for commenting on videos ugh

@collywogs2258 Ай бұрын

Aaaaaah! The curvy backup issue...guilty😢. Great video, thanks so much!

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

You got it colly! 👍

@Janspropertycare 11 ай бұрын

I think I see a future video coming up from what I see in the background at 6:38 !!🤔I'm not sure how I feel about my new personal pace mower yet cut quality is awesome, but I like the old school trusty double bail design on my old toro!

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey Jans! Can’t beat the old double bail! Works like a charm! 👍👍 and you’re the first to find the Easter egg my friend! 😉

@wmstout1 11 ай бұрын

Push it forward with out the personal pace about a foot just at the end of your cut and it will not lock up on you. My dealer gave me this tip. Been doing this for years

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing!

@RathJ13 2 ай бұрын

Just got one of these, Takes a lot of getting used to compared to typical self propel mowers. And the spring definitely needs to be stiffer, it's way too light.

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Agreed!

@gregoryeditor6500 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the tips, I will give it a try. Stay cool my grass is getting pretty long but it is just to hot to cut. We had a bad thunderstorm in Kenosha WI and my power was out for 7 hours. This summer has been a bummer.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear that, my friend. Thanks for watching in the meantime. Hopefully the weather cooperates soon so you can get out there and mow.

@paulmysliborski4832 11 ай бұрын

Seems that this problem negates the cost and designed ease of use of the Personal Pace system. I think TORO needs to conduct a douching of their R&D department, Pronto. I have heard numerous complaints about TORO in the past 5-6 years. And that includes push mowers, riding mowers, snow blowers, and some of their battery-powered units. If you are going to charge Top-Dollar, you need to be a little bit more reliable than PowerSmart...............

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

100% agree, brother. they’ve been slipping downhill for a while now and it seems that the only decent mowers they have are the commercial ones, but then again they are trying to push battery to the commercial guys. Batteries are for ladies nightstands. Right? LOL

@paulmysliborski4832 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear Lmao! Well, those real tough ladies use the outlets on the wall….. 🤣🤣

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

@@paulmysliborski4832 hahahhahahaha they sure do!

@AAa-qd8hb 29 күн бұрын

Straight handle is better with blue traction assist handle

@Bob.sackamano 11 ай бұрын

Very informative. I've found being smooth with it does help. Unfortunately I've been super disappointed with this mower. Cut quality is poor, personal pace handle is far too big, motor sputters, backing up issues...for the price I expected a lot more. I own an HRX217 which is the same price as this toro but FAR FAR FAR FAR surpasses this mower in every way. Maybe if it had a blade stop there would be some sort of saving grace with this mower. If you are in the market for a high end residential mower, there is only ONE mower to consider and it's the HRX217. Even if you are a toro fan boy there is no denying the disappointment of this machine.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing Esteban!

@andybub45 10 ай бұрын

HRX is unfortunately being discontinued. No good gas mowers to buy anymore, best to fix the one you have

@BigDaddysGarage 11 ай бұрын

Great info!

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

ROCK ON FLINT! 👍 stay awesome my friend!

@maxjones6615 3 ай бұрын

Nice video! I’m getting an older personal pace with the straight handlebar from a neighbor. I think with a new belt and cable adjustment it will be like new.

@GarageGear 3 ай бұрын

That’s the way to go

@AAa-qd8hb 29 күн бұрын

Straight handle is better with blue traction assist handle

@darter216 Ай бұрын

Great video….saw this and others…subscribed

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

Thanks for subscribing darter! Welcome to the tribe.

@order6676 11 ай бұрын

I think if you need a video explaining why your personal pace system is not letting you back the mower up it's a pretty big flaw. But what do I know I like my mowers simple, less parts the less to repair.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

That’s a good point. Thanks for watching!

@ontheone9559 Ай бұрын

My Honda does the same thing!

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

Probably a similar issue

@GusMahn 10 ай бұрын

There is a simple clutch type mechanism in the axle gears. Sometimes it gets a build up of worn metal and grease. It can be flushed and re-greased through a grease fitting on the back, since it doesn’t have a check valve. Personal a little blast of light oil once or twice a season keeps it working properly.

@GarageGear 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this Gus!

@93zj6135 2 ай бұрын

This was a great video and well put together, but honestly it shouldn't have been a video you needed to make.

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Thanks my friend! I agree with you! 👍

@blazzingray 11 ай бұрын

As someone else mentioned i have to push foward a inch or to 2 release it just got same one last week and im finding the locking up in reverse a hassle to say the least i have to do alot of the short passes kids outdoor play set i dread cutting back yard now since i picked this mower up

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Perhaps you can string trim around all that a little more so you don’t have to make such difficult passes with the mower.

@outdoorstuff3325 11 ай бұрын

Great information, awesome video, thank you. Every so often my super recycler does not like to go in reverse like you shown in your video. How did you like your Toro time master

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey outdoor stuff! I like it the timemaster so much that I sold it! Lol! Way too many issues with that thing! Thanks for being a cool fan! 👍

@blazzingray 10 ай бұрын

Update I took a spring from the arm that's already on transmission to the hole that back flap goes through and now it goes back every time super easy!!! Can go back and forth really short back to back and never gets stuck now

@GarageGear 10 ай бұрын

Hey blazing gray! Thank you for sharing this! Would you mind sending me a picture of what you did exactly to my email in the video description? Thank you in advance!

@blazzingray 10 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear sent you the email!

@apexiumim2741 9 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear Hey JB.. can you share that mod? Wonder if different than what was done on mine?🤔

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

@@apexiumim2741 sure it was a small spring linked between the transmission personal pace cable hole and the back of the deck where the drag flap hole is. Didn’t work though. The point was to pull the transmission back down after it was engaged.

@msjj60 Ай бұрын

I have same issue and would like to try this trick. Any pics would be greatly appreciated.

@jamestyrer6067 8 ай бұрын

THANKS. YOUR VIDEOS ROCK. GOING IN AND AROUND SHRUBS IM SIMPLY NOT USING THE DRIVE. WHEN INTO THE OPEN LAWN THE DRIVE WORKS JUST FINE 😊

@GarageGear 8 ай бұрын

Appreciate you James! Thanks for watching and sharing

@ALnMO 11 ай бұрын

I was considering the Super Recycler because my HRX217 has its own issues backing up ... maybe I'll hang on to the HRX217

@mdomnis 11 ай бұрын

I just bought an HRX217 used. Hoping I don't end up running into the same thing although I know my neighbor has had some back up issues with his Honda HRR.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

I wonder if there is a spring related issue with the Honda’s not backing up because someone else mentioned this as well. Thanks for watching.

@ALnMO 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear The Honda rear axle rotates through 2 plastic bushings (1 left, 1 right). I took mine apart and one bushing was all galled up and the axle was not smooth either. Had to sand them down to get them smooth again. I've had to do this twice within 5 years. It's a nuisance.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

@@ALnMO thanks for sharing this!

@briantii 11 ай бұрын

I'd use a dry lube like Teflon spray for the handle bars. Should lube it without attracting dust.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

That’s a good idea. Thanks for sharing!

@briantii 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear Thank you! Love the videos!

@Thomas-nz4uh 22 күн бұрын

When my self propel mower is in neutral and I'm backing up, will this cause damage to the transmission?

@GarageGear 20 күн бұрын

Not as far as I know!

@JosephLaCombe-xq6vn Ай бұрын

I have same Lawn mower. Bought 4/1/24 used twice went in shop 5/1/24. When pushing lawn mower to put back after mowing it grinds or clicks horrible. When mowing when you push to engage personal pace the gear click or grind then engage. Even when the engine is loud you can hear the clicking or something grinding. I finally got back yesterday 5/20/24. Excited to mow my grass today on the 3rd time up my yard it sounded horrible again. Same issue. Is this a common issue with this model? I have only mowed 3 times. What would you recommend?

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

That does not sound right! I would take it back and possibly see if you could get your money back. Sounds like Something is broken with your transmission.

@JosephLaCombe-xq6vn 19 күн бұрын

@@GarageGear Just a quick update finally received my replacement from dealer couple weeks ago. Super impressed. Looks like the first one was a defect. It runs smooth smooth and doesn't hang up in reverse. Thanks for your response!!

@GarageGear 18 күн бұрын

@@JosephLaCombe-xq6vn good to hear my friend!

@smallblock412 11 ай бұрын

Definitely a baby carriage design 😂

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

💯percent my friend! Totally the wrong design! 👎

@mdomnis 11 ай бұрын

This video makes me glad I didn't shell out the money for one of these new Super Recyclers and instead bought a used Honda HRX217VKA for $200.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

That’s a deal! Thanks for watching!

@liamwaters5451 9 ай бұрын

The toro timemaster transmission works a little differently. Its looks like a little hydrostatic transmission as the super recycler relys on belt slip

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing

@zackhutson6435 3 ай бұрын

Have you had any issues with one of the rear wheels not engaging? I have regressed, but it only seems to be a temporary fix.

@GarageGear 3 ай бұрын

No just both not going backwards

@StuartNC 11 ай бұрын

Perfect timing! My 21564 (the model in this video) is about to arrive in the next couple hours. I did see somewhere on the Toro site it mentions pushing it forward a few inches to disengage transmission before backing up. Looking forward to that new engine smell.

@blazzingray 11 ай бұрын

Exactly what I have to do

@StuartNC 11 ай бұрын

Just did my first mow with the 21564. Love it! I’ll stop mourning my HRX now.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Enjoy the mow, my friend!

@matthewschnipke3251 6 ай бұрын

Would you have this problem with a front wheel drive version?

@GarageGear 6 ай бұрын

Shouldn’t be an issue. That’s a different set up.

@jaybooth4815 11 ай бұрын

I’ve even noticed that happening on my Toro battery mower with the personal pace JB. Very informative video and your editing is amazing! In where the transmission is that moves back and forth, can that be lubricated at all? What’s up for the weekend? Cheers buddy!

@LL-mt2nz 11 ай бұрын

I have the 60v too. I just push it forward lightly before reversing in tight spots.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Appreciate the positive feedback Jay! As you know a lot goes into editing each video! Perhaps where the gears poke out it can be lubed but other than that there aren’t any other options. Birthday Parties everywhere this weekend! What’s new with you?👍

@jaybooth4815 11 ай бұрын

Today was a washout weather wise. Tomorrow looks promising so might bbq some nice thick ribeye steaks! Enjoy the weekend bud!

@electroddxful 11 ай бұрын

Great tip JB.👍🙏👍🙏have a bless weekend 🙏🙏🙏

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey, Electro! Appreciate you watching another. Hope you’re having a nice weekend too!

@mikerue2423 9 ай бұрын

My model 21462 does not have this problem despite the curved personal pace system, I can pull it back and forth without a problem now if it just had a larger discharge port that would not clog so easily.

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing Mike!

@brodygoalie 2 ай бұрын

My right rear wheel is spinning very fast when mowing but not on pavement. What can i do to fix the right rear wheel? Thanks!!!

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

What have you checked so far on the mower Brody?

@brodygoalie 2 ай бұрын

Nothing. Do not have the knowledge of where to start? Thanks

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

@@brodygoalie I would pop your back wheels off and start there to see what’s up. Perhaps a gear is stripped

@stever100 11 ай бұрын

What this lawnmower really needs is a parking brake. It rolls so easy that it wont stay put on my driveway.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hahaha I know the struggle lol

@TecumsehRulesbcserk 11 ай бұрын

Strange, my 2005 personal pace with the 6.5 Tecumseh doesn’t have this issue because it has a key spring system on the drive gears. You think Toro would keep that design, but apparently not.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

We would think right? Toro has gotta stop cutting corners! Any plans for the weekend BCSERK?

@bryanb6217 11 ай бұрын

My Honda lawn mower wheels won't back up at all anymore. The wheels are completely locked when I try to go in reverse. I wonder if it's something similar?

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

I wonder if you have a transmission spring they is missing. I have seen that be the case on some John Deere’s before.

@skyemac8 11 ай бұрын

I thought it was just me. Definitely known to Toro for years. You wait, take a coffee break and THEN pull it back!

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

LOL good tip! Haha! Good to hear from you, buddy!

@WJCTechyman 2 ай бұрын

My solution, find another mower. Don't go with Toro. There are other options out there, one drying up fast is the Honda and another similar system that's actually an improvement is the Cub Cadet with My Speed. It uses a lever design instead of the sliding handle.

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Thanks again for sharing wjc

@phyriz007 2 ай бұрын

Don't use WD-40 on plastics. Instead use a silicone spray.

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing

@Kathy0118 11 ай бұрын

Hi, I noticed your lawn is growing nicely, how do you usually control your watering? Our company specializes in smart irrigation controllers. If you have an irrigation system at home, I would like to sponsor you a controller. Are you interested?

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey Kathy I don’t have an irrigation system. Thanks for reaching out.

@sidneyvalmain1671 11 ай бұрын

Honda does the same thing.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing

@macrobinson5457 11 ай бұрын

This video makes for a great commercial for the Cub Cadet CC 100 line of push mowers.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hahaha! Thanks for watching, Macro!

@BenNawrath 11 ай бұрын

Also. At e try lifting up on the handlebars to get the weight off the wheels and release any tension in the transmission.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Not a bad tip! Thanks! Hopefully some watchers will see it.

@johncombs6543 11 ай бұрын

Does the commercial 21/exMart cousin also have this issue? I also have to ask. Those nylon gears that drive the rear wheels. Are they so they can be replaced? Also, do they have serious wear issues.

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey John! I don’t think the Exmark has these issues. All the wheel gears are metal. No need to worry about them wearing down! By wear issues what do you mean exactly?

@Big.Ron1 11 ай бұрын

I can only afford to buy a personal pace 1 time so who makes a good personal pace mower?

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, nobody makes a decent personal pace mower right now. I think we are going to have to look at more commercial mowers from here on out, because nothing is catching my eye.

@AAa-qd8hb 29 күн бұрын

Straight handle is better with blue traction assist handle

@liljoeii6091 11 ай бұрын

I just Subscribe to your channel Seems like you got a pretty good channel So if I can learn something i'm all there So thank you for the video and onward we go

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for subscribing, my friend. I won’t let you down!

@StuartNC 11 ай бұрын

The handle height adjustment is confusing. Do you have to move the rubber blocks to the other hole to allow the handle to lower?

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Hey Stuart! No you shouldn’t have to. I just moved the handle bars to the other holes and left the rubber blocks where they were!

@StuartNC 11 ай бұрын

@@GarageGear Will email a couple pics of you don't mind, I think maybe they changed the design.

@LL-mt2nz 11 ай бұрын

Yes. You have to move the rubber bushing up to lower the handle. This is on the redesigned deck.

@StuartNC 11 ай бұрын

@@LL-mt2nz Thanks! Done.

@DannyWalker247 16 күн бұрын

I just don't get rear wheel drive on small lawns. I prefer the front drive. I make turns by lifting the front wheels and pivoting the mower on the rear wheels. I never let go of the drive bar while I cut. I have no use for the personal pace. To me it is the same as trying to build a self driving car. This video shows you the problem with this system.

@GarageGear 15 күн бұрын

@@DannyWalker247 thanks for sharing danny

@ayrplanes 11 ай бұрын

It looks like it would be easy enough to drill a hole in the tab on the front of the transmission cover and hook a stainless steel spring around the screw post for the belt cover. You'd have to get the spring tension right but then it would always fully release.

@eugenepolan1750 11 ай бұрын

So, you're suggesting that it may be Sprintime in Garage Gear Land?

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

That’s not a bad idea @ayrplanes

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the laugh @eugenepolan1750

@briantii 11 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. Add a spring like Honda.

@michaelwh9844 11 ай бұрын

Great video as a warning to all future SR purchasers (don't buy). I myself had the same disappointment a year ago, thinking I was upgrading to a top-of-the-line residential mower (including its higher price for the 21386 model), only to realize it's a POS (other than aluminum deck). You're correct, the Personal Pace on Timemasters doesn't have the same back up issue (my Timemaster doesn't), but the older (non-curved) PP handles of the Super Recyclers have the exact back-up problem. What makes it worse is Toro knows this issue and puts their disclaimer in the instruction manual (figure 14 for the 21384 model). Of course the advertisement on the mower box says it'll be the "best mowing experience." And nobody buys a 21" mower to get into tight spaces and back up a lot, that's what a riding tractor is for, right? Do you sense my frustration? On southern St. Augustine grass the experience is even worse due to thick stoloniferous grass. If you slowly change direction (as suggested in the video) the mower just stops (doesn't keep rolling, like on northern grasses, or pavement). So you end up having to grab the lower fixed bar and push the mower forward with it before pulling backward (negating the point of Personal Pace). And God forbid you forget this step and get it stuck against a wall. Other issues with the Toro SR mower (21386) 1. On St. Augustine grass particularly, the PP drive system makes the mower slow and buck forward as it hits resistance and overcomes it respectively; making the front wheels lift off the ground when it jumps forward (yes I know the PP has adjustment per Allyn Hane, but it still bucks no matter what adjustment). 2. In bagging mode, the front of the mower is too light, and bag is too deep, so that when the bag gets half full (and too heavy) the front wheels start to lift off ground. Additionally because bag is too deep, for taller folks, we end up kicking the back of bag unless we take baby steps. The experience only gets better! 3. The cables for the drive and operator presence stick 6 inches outside the left handlebar, and end up being scrapped on, or caught, in shrubs or fence or wall passing by. I've noticed this on all similar model SR mowers. 4. The front wheel height adjusters are susceptible to being knocked out of position by shrubs due to them being out in front of and higher than front wheels. 5. Mulch plug doesn't fit tight enough and needs to be cleaned regularly or will build up grass. It's amazing how Toro has sold so many of these SR units, and how their designers/engineers haven't addressed these issues. All these issues make me wish I had gotten another FWD MTD and saved $250! My current MTD has 300 plus hours on it, none of the above issues, no breakdowns, and haven't yet even had to change the drive belt! And the thing keeps powering forward; and best of all, the wheels don't lock up going backward!

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this information. It’s good for the Garage Gear community! We appreciate it!

@briantii 11 ай бұрын

Wow! You make my old Honda HRR216 sound good (also has pull backwards issues). Glad I replaced it with an HRX217HYA which I love, but slightly paranoid on parts since Honda is exiting the industry. I got a good 20 - 30 years left of mowing before I give it up….

@andybub45 10 ай бұрын

I do experience similar issues on mine but I find them manageable. I’ve never had the rear wheels lock up but they sometimes get tight. Definitely not as bad as the Honda this replaced. I’ve found the drive cable adjustment needs to be perfect for the best results.

@blazzingray 10 ай бұрын

Yeah I have been dealing with it but feed up with it called the dealer to take this pos back trying to cut back yard is dreadfull trying to do around everyrlthing if I wanted to weedwhack whole back yard would have not spent 900$ for a mower making my 199$ eletric harbor freight atlas shine like a daimond right now no problem pushing forwards and backwards

@GarageGear 10 ай бұрын

@@blazzingray this is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed by toro!

@kennethmoore427 11 күн бұрын

I can’t stand the personal pace. Please bring back this mower with the bail system

@GarageGear 11 күн бұрын

@@kennethmoore427 I agree

@Agent77X 9 ай бұрын

Toro is always cutting cost with every new model! Toro alway increase the price a lot and justify price increase by snazzy color combos.😂

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

That’s pretty much their business plan of late lol!

@tomvarano3283 11 ай бұрын

Yup Toro is definitely is loosing quality. Just remember kinder gentler mowing with a Toro Personal Pace machine. Toro had the drive system all figured out years ago. Did they forget????

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Clearly they are having issues over there. I don’t know what’s going on over there, my friend. Thanks for commenting. You are the man.

@AAa-qd8hb 29 күн бұрын

Straight handle is better with blue traction assist handle

@f5tornadeau 9 ай бұрын

Not WD40!!! Use a silicone lubricant spray instead. Works much better for those types of applications.

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing

@LL-mt2nz 11 ай бұрын

I used the WD40 gel product it is more permanent and doesn’t drip. My fix is to gently push the mower forward slightly forward. I wonder if this is a safety issue on incline?

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info! I do wonder if this is a safety issue!

@weeverob 9 ай бұрын

WD is not a lube

@GarageGear 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@philliphall5198 2 ай бұрын

Dealer fixed something, that’s a first

@GarageGear 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching

@apexiumim2741 11 ай бұрын

1000% sharing this with my dealer. After watching your extremely informative video…., I’d say ya… toro is cheapening out on these units. A recall should be announced with a fix based on your observations. Fak that.., they should PAY you! Think I’ll forward this off to Toro. Thanks JB!!!

@GarageGear 11 ай бұрын

Yeah! Go right ahead, my friend. I think that would be awesome. Let’s see what they have to say.

@tektight Ай бұрын

Better suggestion instead of slowing down to do the pivoting/turning, just don't buy this mower until they stop cheaping out. Pivoting and turning to do those quick small cuts is a major part of mowing and for a mower to NOT have the ability to do that on the fly it's not worth it.

@GarageGear Ай бұрын

Definitely not worth it!