It makes sense, right? What do you think of the situation between Goku and Vegeta after Fusion? Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed the video, hit the Like and Subscribe... and turn on those notifications! All Super Thanks donations welcome or to my Patreon so KZfaq doesn't take any of it www.Patreon.com/ScholarVerse

The red circle explains everything

My take is that Goku and Vegeta only share their knowledge while fused. Once they unfuse, all the knowledge and memories go back to their original bodies, so they don't share techniques. They recall what happened when fused, but don't have the same operative knowledge required to use their respective abilities.

If a fusion gave you such exact memories that you could copy a advance technique, it also would give you a fractured consciousness by flooding your mind with the other persons memory and experiences, when de-fusing you’re probably getting a vague snapshot of what the other person is capable at most lol

I just wanna hear Vegeta say: KAMEHAMEHA

They do know of each others tehniques after fusion. Vegeta was using ki blade at one point which is Vegito's move and Gogeta seems to know Vegito's name so they do have memory of what happens during the fusion. Vegeta most likely at that point knew he couldn't utilize ssj3 due to it's time limit and strain on it's user and he doesn't use Goku's tehniques became they are Goku's. If you remember he said he won't use instant transmission after that one time on Moro arc because it was 'Goku's thing'.

With Namekian fusion the memories of the one consumed feels like a foreign entity at first but eventually the host comes to see them as their own, Kami and Nail aren’t just chillin in Piccolo’s subconscious like in dbza, they’re gone and all of their power, skills and memories are Piccolo’s now.

I feel like the only reason Vegeta felt that way was because during this arc goku had Blue + kaioken, which put him above Vegeta. Keep in mind this was before the TOP. Before Vegeta achieved Blue Evolution, which is stated to be on par with Blue + Kaioken. Goku has more abilities and forms that strain his body. Vegeta eventually gains similar levels of strength without the cons.

When Vegeta watched Goku power up against Babidi's monster, he realized Goku had already jumped way past SSJ2 Gohan. Remember when Goku turned gold and all his hair stood up? Vegeta felt a hint of SSJ3 right there. He was pissed.

Goku and Vegeta *DO* know each others techniques, because of a often-forgotten Saiyan trait - Mimicry. They can replicate combat techniques after seeing them used once.

Vegeta begrudgingly using a Kamehame-ha as a last resort would be pretty epic to see.

He probably figured how to transform into a ssj3 but he saw the huge drain on stamina and figured it wasn't worth doing it. Kinda like Trunks's super buff form. He knew how to do that but chose not to use it because of the disadvantage it had.

Thank God Gohan didn't fuse with Goku against Buu. It would've needed Chi-Chi again to get him out...

I think it makes a lot of sense, the 2 meld into one, separating means they become themselves again.

Hopefully we'll get SSJ3 Vegeta for Dragon Ball Sparking Zero.

Scene in abridged where Vegito isnt able to say Goku is the funniest thing ive ever seen and i would recommend it to any DB fan to go watch it. Dragonball Z Abridged, Buu Bits. Youre welcome 😁

Vegeta knows about ssj3 but also knows about the drawbacks with it and instead works on developing ssj2, like how all the saiyan characters work on developing ssj2...

Or could be that Goku has more power and had to lower it to fuse so even if Vegeta knew he lacked the power.

i think you got it wrong: they literally say the fusion being is a whole new dude. its not the fusion of goku and vegeta thats vegito end of story

Goten and Trunks named their attacks for Gotenks. So they had everything about their fusion. But we do know they had more time to practice their fusion, over Goku and Vegeta. Vegeta was also dead, so technically he should've been able to even TRY using SSJ3 even if it was a bad form at that time. Writing is what made him not use SSJ3.

yeah but why did vegeta forget instant transmission?

Kami and piccialo are the same kami spilt into two back before dragonball to become the guardian of the earth he expelled his evil side

I like the idea of time spent being fused, feeling like a dreamlike state afterward.

I think of it like this. After Vegeta and Goku diffused, he realized that Goku was holding ss3 back for a good reason. Ss3 would’ve eaten his energy and time in the living world just as it did with Goku. When he got his new life, he didn’t have enough energy to pull off any transformation, especially ss3. After the time skip, Vegeta realized it was too demanding and put more effort into ss2. Theoretically he should know all of Goku’s moves, training methods, and even how to activate ultra instinct after the broly movie. Vegeta being prideful and more strategic he would rather reach an uncharted level with his own efforts.

0:24 because they become ONE new person

Vegeta has a massive amount of pride. He would find using Goku's techniques unacceptable to use. Holds immense pride in the techniques he developed, the strength he cultivated, and the experience he built. He doesn't ignore Goku's techniques and methods, simply accounting for them in future matches. It's also possible that Goku's ability to use SSJ3 as well as the boys' ability in fusion could be directly linked to their purity of heart. Goku said that it was a different type of energy or one from a different source but after he demonstrated it for them, they were about to attain it in fusion after weeks in the hyperbolic time chamber.

It's because Goku said the two when they do fusion it's a hybrid fusion so they won't remember everything that it's a whole new person buy them being separated they're stronger together then separated

The reason I'd love to see a SSJ3 Vegeta is just for how deep and animalistic his voice would need to go.

I could be very mistaken, but I feel like Vegeta stated that he knew of Goku's SS3 and either just didn't like it, or because Goku did it first, Vegeta just didn't want it anymore and wanted to achieve similar/greater levels of power in his own way... But saying it in a way that makes me think he may have actually tried it personally, rather than merely observing it himself. Again I am almost certainly mistaken, but I do remember it along those lines.

What if Potara was actually permanent and they somehow retained the form after defeating Super and Kid Buu. Imagine the shenanigans of their family lives

Even without the fusion Vegeta would of definitely learned ssj3, he just wouldn’t ever use it because of its drawbacks, it’s similar to when trunks used ssj grade 3 against cell and thought Vegeta couldn’t use it then realised it’s weakness in reducing his speed

Its always been pretty well stated that Gogeta and Vegito are there own beings that only exist within the fusion. If they fall out of Fusion and return to fusion the fused state is once again a brand new being seperate from the previous versions of itself and the beings that serve as its parts. The parts may retain that they did this before but its not like Gogeta actually remembers the opponent or the previous fight just like Goku and Vegeta don't remember it as it wasn't them.

Can you make a video talking about where Goku’s eyebrows go when he goes super saiyan 3?

I always thought Vegeta didn’t know how until he leveled up to God and by then it was inefficient

At this point they can both use instant transmission Spirit bomb pretty much absorb energy and heal themselves so when they fuse all those skills should be amped on top of Master UI and ultra ego so they're both pretty much unstoppable now I just want to see the master super Saiyan blue and combined it with the perfect blue and blue evolve into like one true super Saiyan blue form they can go higher within itself

The separate entities for Fusion could be a side effect to make those using the technique dependent on each other because some techniques can only be used in Fusion mode. For Vegeto, he was lead to believe the fusion would be permanent like with the Kais, so all the knowledge could be put together, but the amount of time was too short to create the mental link.

Vegeta did know but he also knew about the weakness so he never did it

I remember them implying that Vegeta knew SSJ3, but never used it because most of his moves are based on KI control, and SSJ3 sucks that up rather fast, while on the other hand goku was more of a physical fighter from the get go, and therefore used it to augment his moveset. Then again, that could have been a translation thing.

Wtf is that red circle on the thumbnail tho 😂😂😂😂

Goku is the technique thief in my opinion he's learned and used a lot of other people's ki Technics over the years sometimes by observation alone so I feel like he could definitely use Vegeta's attacks if he wanted to but doesn't bc of the reasons you explained. I'd figure Vegeta could do the same thing too.

I think fusion doesn't allow the two partners to retain full knowledge of what each other knows, feels, acts and so forth. So perhaps a dream like feeling of the fusion. Enough to know what happened, a sense of power of the fusion but nothing concrete like knowing the passwords to all of Vegeta's electronics for example. Maybe, if they fused more often that it would reinforce those dreams into something more concrete. Maybe Vegeta had an idea of how to go SSJ3. Maybe he could have attempted it against Kid Buu, maybe not. Perhaps by Beerus, Vegeta has an idea to how go SSJ3 but he saw the drawbacks and decided to just get stronger as a SSJ2.

From what I understand, Vegeta deliberately chooses not to pursue SSJ 3 because, like Grade 3, he deems it too impractical. He focuses on absolutely mastering SSJ 2 and it kinda pays off because he briefly surpasses Goku's SSJ 3 when Beerus makes him angry.

Kami and piccolo were already 2 half's of a whole. Though nail wasn't their ability, it never allows separation so I'm not sure if the fusion is deeper. On a side not what would happen if a namakian was wished back who gave their life like in universe 6 or ours. But I do agree your end answer is correct, well that it's a new person, the new person does know both memories and stuff but when they unfuze it's like a blur or fuzzy of what happen while in fusion. There are things in Manga and the show that talk more about the details of fusion though and all the effect . R.I.P. TORIYAMA

In GT Vegeta blames Goku for screwing around when they didn't kill Omega, so I guess they do have control...

Namekians don't use "fusion." They use assimilation. One body takes the power and other attributes like personality and mind of the others. It's almost like Boo's absorptions.

Fusions can even create their own techniques just like with Gotenks' Kamikaze Ghost and Gogeta's Stardust Breaker. Of course, as you mentoned, they can combine two attacks into one. Like the Big Bang Kamehameha. I feel they have the ability to go beyond their normal limits and even vegito and gogeta can go super saiyan 3 easily since they use the entire arsenal of each users techniques.

Ironically enough, I’m at the Vegito part in DBZ with this rewatch lol

Even if Vegeta knew SSJ3 against Kid Buu, he wouldn't have used it because he would also logically be aware of its incredible stamina-drain. It's the same reason why he never used SSJ Grade 3 against Cell, despite having access to this form. The downsides to the form far outweighed the benefits. Vegeta may want power, but he also wants to be able to actually use that power.

SSJ3 can only be unlocked in a place where time is really not a thing which is why Goku and Gotenks could do it since goku was dead and in the afterlife time is really not a thing whereas Gotenks achieved in the time chamber where time flows differently....and this also explains why Vegete and Future Trunks could never achieve it.

It would be cool

i always have another approach of explaination, why vegeta never uses the ssj3. the reason is simply fighting style. if we watch the whole series closely, we can see a pattern of how goke and vegeta is fighting. goku focuses hardly on close combat. 1v1 fighting with bare hands and legs. yes vegeta is also going into close combat. but just to find openings to use massive ammount of KI attacks. and thats the reason why he never uses ssj3. the amount of ki or concentration needed, to maintain ssj3 is huge. by using alot of ki attacks, would just harm the transformation. since goku is more focused on close combat and sometimes using ki attacks, he is able maintain ssj3 longer. vegeta is extremly intelligent and is aware of this drawback, since its not fitting his style. ssj blue is practicly ssj with god ki. so its easier to maintain.

Piccolo learned the Mufaba and Makankosappo without fusion so why does he need fusion to learn Light Grenade?

Im guessing when babidi used Manipulation Sorcery on vegita, it unlockef his hidden power like how guru brought out gohans hidden power.

I know each individual remembers the fustion because trunks an goten where planning the next battle woth buu at one point so why not

In my opinion, one individual cannot know about the other individual's techniques unless the fusion USES them, not store them. For example, Vegito Blue used instant transmission against Zamasu, then in moro arc Vegeta uses instant transmission WITHOUT any training. Long story short, the KNOWLEDGE of BOTH persons is in in the fusion's head ONLY, but if the fusion used a technique of one individual, the other individual will get a "feeling" of that same technique and eventually figure it out. Vegito never used SSJ3, so Vegeta shouldn't know how to ho SSJ3, on the other hand Vegito used IT, so Vegeta should know how to do IT, and he does! Theoretically, that also means that Vegeta also knows how to do kamehameha, and Goku should be able to perform big bang attack and final flash, but they don't want to do so because of their pride as you said.

What I think happens is since vegeito used ssjb against zamas vegeta could sence and know the mastered super sayin blue within goku vegito in z didn't used ssj3 against buu if vegito went super sayin 3 then mabey vegeta would know how to do it because theoretically vegeta would feel the power and possible remember it, on the topic of them using eachothers moves they usually combine moves in the fusions so they don't know how to do it individually

Goku learned SSJ 3 because he was in Otherworld at the time and Gotenks was a fusion, so it seems there needs to be a special circumstance in order to be able to learn it. I believe in a previous video you covered how Vegeta did however reach "SSJ 2.5" from the dlc in Kakarot.

Circle and arrow?! On the thumbnail I didn't get it why?

As Piccolo once stated that "when it comes to fighting Vegeta is a prodigy in his own right" so it stands to reason that he knew about the limitations of Super Saiyan 3 in the drawbacks to it hence why he never bothered to even use it in the first place. If you really think about it compared to the first level of Super Saiyan, then 2 and 4 along with Super Saiyan God have no issues when it comes to the stamina problem. Super Saiyan 3 and blue however have a problem when it comes to the stamina drain instead of actually perfecting it like they should case and point in Dragon Ball GT Goku had figured out the drawbacks to Super Saiyan 3 and managed to perfect it later on in his life albit at that he needed some help with elder Kai when he regained his tail. And in DBAF, the fan sequel to DBGT, Vegeta had got SS3.

Vegeta chose not to use SSJ3 due to the fact it drains too much power. He said it in DBS.

Legacy of Goku 2 OST’s were peak. 🤌🏼

Honestly I've always considered Fusion to be like a dream in Dragon Ball like you like you just mentioned just given by the fact that Goku and Vegeta don't retain knowledge of each other's moves or techniques. But honestly I've always considered a waste of opportunity for characters in Dragon Ball that do fuse at least by using the dance or the potara do not at least retain knowledge of the other but an even bigger question I've always pondered why after the fusion rather if it be the dance or the potara fusion the power of the fused Warrior does not instantaneously get divided up between the pair that make up the fusion once it dissolves. Like take Vegito for example when Goku and Vegeta fuse introducing Vegito why did Vegito once defused the power of Vegito was not divided and transferred off to Goku and Vegeta making them leagues stronger than they originally were that's a deep question that I've been asking myself for years. I mean Goku and Vegeta had had to have been exposed to Vegitos power in one way or another. I mean just think of the implications Goku or Vegeta by themselves could have destroyed Kid Buu without even having the Spirit Bomb because base Vegito could have destroyed Kid Buu. But honestly the fusion techniques and Dragon Balls always felt to be a wasted concept because there was so much more that the fusions could have been Gotenks it's just one of them cuz I've always wondered why Fusion Gotenks once dissolved did not transfer that power off to Trunks and Goten abeling them to become Super Saiyan 2 and 3 at least.

I think Super Saiyan 3 can't be attained without a dead body or a fused one. It would rip apart a mortal saiyans body and just requires more than a living body can handle. They stated that the dead body was more durable and Goku attained the form in the otherworld. Gotenks understood how to go super saiyan 3 just by watching, so it may not be overly complicated to achieve the form, just painful.

At least learning how do unlock SS3 is a good training method. All the struggles would push the body to an intense level, giving better power to other forms.

I think it’s definitely worth it also depends on the experience and skill here my view on the situation Vegeta does have the experience to have super sayin 3 and know goku by combat. Not by fusing it can be like the ozaru transformation into a ape where they know something happened but not sure what but Vegeta may be more aware of the battle cuz he’s the one that was battling so I think he knows a lot about fusing with goku to become Vegeto I don’t think the fusing has anything to do with the knowledge of super sayin 3 could be before Vegeta the one like to reserve his ki and energy so to him it would consume more ki and energy than he is used to on the other hand I think of another idea that would benefit vegeta is he can wish for a limited supply of ki but that is not his nature. Goku over confidence will still get in his way and vegeta will be more aware of the weakness of the super sayin 3 this is why he will not use it will reserve his ki or energy this why goku ki got wore down with his new body same with vegeta if he attempted to use it because they weren’t even close to the real body as the first it’s simuler looking but it is not the same body that got destroyed in battle with cell or majin buu you have to see it has different body.

Well I think that when dey fuse, it's like they create a new entity like a chemical reaction I think that since the fusion is temporary, they won't really be actually fused together to the point that they would be able to share each other's memories, I think the only memories they would share is of them being vegito or gogeta as the case maybe. I think the reason Vegeta could sense that Goku had become more powerful than him I sthst because during fusion he realised that most of vegito's power was gotten from goku

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This video gave me a slightly unrelated thought since you talked about the fusions being magic and maybe magic doesn't need to be explained. Zamasu stole Goku's body through simple use of the dragon balls, yet he didn't get any of Goku's techniques or knowledge with it. What if the dragon balls were used to swap Goku and Vegeta's skill set? They would maintain their own bodies and own personalities, but suddenly Vegata can't do the Galick Gun and Goku can't do a Kamehame ha. Now this wouldn't be 100% a problem for techniques they share like Super Saiyan or the god forms, or basic things like a simple ki blast, but would they be able to use the more unique techniques at full strength? For instance, would Goku's Final Flash be handicapped due to never having done it before despite having the knowledge on the technique? Would Vegeta lose control of the Kaio-ken if he attempted it? Would it damage his body? Or, since they are both talented fighters who have excellent ki control, would the transferred knowledge and techniques be able to be done perfectly on first use? I could imagine Goku, with his natural martial arts ability, such as when he copied Roshi's Kamehame ha, would master the Galick Gun mid-fight. The first use would be weak since he's never done it before, but a second or third attempt would be almost full power or even full power. I feel like maybe Vegeta's Kamehame ha would be weaker than Goku's Galick Gun, and probably wouldn't master it as fast mid-fight, but he too would master it in a few extra tries.

In my opinion they knew eachothers moves b4 fusion they are both genius combatants. And as far as ssj3 is concerned fusion prob just made it easier fo vageta to do it but he instantly realized the drawback of using without dead body. Using ssj3 when alive is not practical

If that was the case, then Piccolo could of made dragon balls.

I always had the theory that by the time the fight Kid Boo base Vegeta is stronger than base Goku also meaning SSJ2 Vegeta is close to SSJ3 Goku level. This is based on Whis training them with no transformations and Vegeta staying alive against Kid Boo. Vegeta spent more time training lesser forms.

this channel is just... vegeta glaze isnt it?

Vegeta against Beerus is the exact reason why Vegeta does not use Super Saiyan 3.

Lol i think Vegeta just doesn't want to use SS3 because it has too many drawbacks its like if you're out drinking you don't want to take 20 shots of tequila you want to be buzzed having fun rather than blacking out in the first 10 minutes

Easy, because when they unmerge all the memories of each individual goes with them so you wouldn't remember anything from the other.

Like ascended, I felt that 3 was just Goku's own form of super saiyan he perfected. Wasteful and short lived but very powerful. Vegeta, even if he knew HOW to use it, it wouldn't be necessarily as useful to HIM, as he would see it as too wasteful, and Kakkarot's little trick, and not something he spent enough time with to get used to, like golden frieza trying to use a form he just figured out

Vegeta usually relies in Kii blast and SSj3 although insanely fast, strong and resilient it it drains quite fast. So it's basically useless for him. I bet he learned it easily after Buu saga, but he decided to just up SSj2 which is by far the most balanced SSj transformation. If he learned SSj God (unlike Goku), he could EASILY learn SSj3.

Great theory but veggie already said he can and refuses too. For everything but kioken😊

I don't think it's supposed to be physically possible to get up to SS3 for a normal saiyan. Goku had to train in the afterlife where he would not be at risk of death through training in order to unlock it, something Vegeta couldn't do. Back before Super and GT I always thought the power required was worth two super saiyan transformations at one time, because only halo Goku and Gotenks could use the form. That lead me to believe that just unlocking it was probably too much for one saiyan to handle even with Vegeta's power. I suppose that once you transform the first time it becomes easier to transform into, seeing as Goku can still use it in super despite being alive and kid Goku could use it in GT. I know it's Dragonaball and it isn't supposed to make sense, but if I were to rationalize it, that's all I can think of logically. If Vegeta died and was able to train for a while in the afterlife I bet he would come back with SS3 unlocked, but now that there's SS Blue and other superior forms it wouldn't matter.

I love this F channel 🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼

You ain't being an efficient and fast fighter with hair like that, ofc not the only issues.

Didn't Vegeta have to learn instant transmission in the manga?

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Im sure he will bust this out against Trunks one day LuL

I thought the fusion characters were their own characters? And not half and half. He does Say i'm neither goku nor vegeta!

Black leopard has soft fur

Vegeta never got to Super Saiyan 3 because he didn't train in otherworld unlike Goku did, Vegeta didn't keep his body after dying, he did bad things in his life. That detail is important because Super Saiyan 3 has a big weakness : It takes a lot of energy and stamina to stay in that form and in otherworld : dead person's body has more energy, stamina and resistance ! Meaning a saiyan can train a lot faster as they do not need rest, because they are dead, so Goku trained 24/7, and even fought against incredible dead warriors But when Vegeta was dead, he just a wandering soul so he couldn't gain strength. After coming back to life and fighting against Kid Buu alongside Goku, Vegeta didn't evolve in strength whatsoever, proving my point. When DBS came Vegeta had already found another way : Vegeta knew that Super Saiyan 3's weakness was too great and he needed a better alternative. So instead of trying to attain Super Saiyan 3, he mastered Super Saiyan 2 to close the gap, and he was close but not quite there yet. But after Beerus Slapped Bulma, Vegeta got enraged and surpassed Goku's Super Saiyan 3, this was specificaly said by Roshi and the others when they felt his power ! So here's the fact : Vegeta never got Super Saiyan 3, he still can't do the form because he doesn't know how it feels, since each super saiyan form has a different "feeling" for each saiyan to remember. He has no need to learn super saiyan 3 because his super saiyan 2 is now on par with Super Saiyan 3, this is even shown in the "Dragon Ball Z Kakarot" game.

I used to and lowkey as still do as head cannon believe he never needed Super Sayian 3 because he has a elite Sayian gene😎👍🏽😂😂😂 Because I look at the Super Sayian forms kind of like martial art styles or weight lifting as long as you stay consistent with the form you don’t have to go higher. But when the do their forms get a huge multiplier😎👍🏽💯

I think your wrong on this one, I think Vegeta could go SSJ3 if he tried, but didn't see the point in trying because there were way to many drawbacks VS benefits. Ie like Gotenks going SSJ3 lowered fusion time, had he had more self control he could have went SSJ2 and won. I think he already knew about Goku's SSJ3 he probably felt the energy from otherworld.

I always wanted to see Vegeta as a ssj3 in GT at least, now I like more the idea of it being a form you can only achieve in other world or through fusion I almost wish that Vegeta said he asked king kai for a little favor and trained in other world to achieve ssj3 while Goku was wasting time with Uub during those years

A scene in DBS seems to imply that Vegeta can turn Super Saiyan 3 if he wanted to, but finds it wasteful

Wish Vegeta went SS3 against Goku instead of using Majin

Yeah im sure vegeta could go ssj3 but just doesnt b/c its kinda useless. Also between the manga and gt, ssj3 would require u to have a tail to counter the strain on the body. And in the manga, vegeta went to train on yardrat and found out he was playing on hard mode, b/c his ki control was lacking. And its at least assumed that goku's training on yardrat and his ssj mastery training allowed him to use ssj3 without a tail. And vegeta could also go into the ultra form like trunks, be he already knew it wasnt fast enough, so just b/c u dont see him use a form, doesnt mean he cant.

Gogeta’s widows peak isn’t meant to be quite as high as Vegeta’s

I figured when they fuse their basically a new being, and they can use each others moves or the main move of the dominant person. But when they defuse they do remember what they did, but don't retain the knowledge of each others stuff. As for SSj3 I think Goku didn't have it master during the Buu stuff, but after that he seems to have and used it I think 5 times and his time with it last's longer. The first time he just learned it and cause he was dead it eat up his time on Earth. But the second and third time he used it was against Kid Buu, and I believe he was alive and I think in Other World. He was totally fine, but when he pulled a massive kamehameha he was drained and Buu easily blasted him back to base form. But he quickly jumped back into SSj3 after saving Vegeta, and did it even faster and continued to fight Buu. And this time when he threw a massive kamehameha he wasn't drained and continued fighting for some time before retuning to base again. The fourth time was against Beerus, and fifth was during ToP but that was just to show Caulifla and Kale. It does still eat up a lot of power, but Goku was able to stay in it much longer each time he used it. But I think its tied to the Oozaru, I mean we see the Oozaru when Goku first used it. So I think its possible he needs the tail to better maintain SSj3. With Vegeta not learning it, there could be a few possibilities. 1. Goku only learned it in Other World, cause time works differently there, so Vegeta would have to die and be allowed to train there. Which Piccolo told him would never happen. 2. the tail thing, if that is a factor, Vegeta would have figured that out. 3. like the Super Vegeta form, he never went full out with it like Trunks did, cause he saw the weakness of doing so. He would have seen the weakness that comes with it, and seeing despite Goku being able to stay in it longer over time the energy drain is still a factor.

Dragonball multiverse is a fan comic that has a great take on this - super Saiyan 3 is worthless comparative and so they master a “ultra instinct” form similar to mystic - worth mentioning these stories were fleshed out years before dragonball super. Maybe Toei is a fan of the comic 😅

He could have achieved it, he just chose not to use it since in his book it was a double edge sword, it uses too much ki and since his fighting style relies to much raw power he would run out too soon. Remeber during the cell games he achieved super vegeta but knew 5ye draw backs so he didn't use it.

It is pretty weird that Vegeta just skipped ssj3

For piccolo it's not tfs , kami and nail are gone

Vegeta didn't have full power SS2 maybe halfway there , i doubt goku even went full power ss2 probably just didn't want to hurt Vegeta's Pride... and we know this by the Kid Buu fight buu was destroying SS2 Vegeta while Goku put up a damn good fight... these Dragon Ball KZfaqrs don't even watch Dragon Ball