Why you'd want a TILING WINDOW MANAGER, and why I DON'T

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Күн бұрын

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Timecodes:
00:00 Intro
00:44 Sponsor: Squarespace
01:45 What's a window manager?
06:02 Advantages of Tiling WMs
09:40 Why I don't like them
14:39 Sponsor: Tuxedo
15:44 Support the channel
#Linux #tiling #windowmanager #linuxdesktop
All desktop environments provide a window manager, it's in charge of displaying your windows, handling their position and state, as in maximized, minimized, the size of the window, the current focused one, and everything along those lines. On top of these baked in window managers, you have tiling window managers.
Stuff like i3, hyprland, sway, awesomeWM, BSPWM, XMonad, qtile, ratpoison and a lot more.
Some are manual tilers, some are dynamic. Dynamic tilers will open each new window following something YOU defined.
Basically, you have plenty of choice, but tiling window managers will replace your current desktop with something that is more meant to be used with a keyboard, without much user input, to maximize the use of your screen real estate. So, let's look at why you'd want to use a tiling window manager.
The first, obvious advantage is that you never get anything overlapping anything else, unless you actively choose to do so. On a regular desktop, you'll have to move windows out of the way, or minimize them, or resize them, and this is basically wasted time; it's time not spent using the computer and accomplishing something.
The second advantage is that it sort of removes the need to use the mouse or the touchpad 99% of the time. The only time you'll probably need to use it is to interact with the contents of the window itself, like clicking a link in the web browser, or clicking a button in a window.
Another advantage is resource usage. A tiling window manager generally doesn't bring with it a whole system of panels, overviews, app grid, menus, effects and more, meaning that you don't load as many things in memory as with a complete desktop.
A big advantage is also screen usage: without a big panel and a dock, tiling windows always uses the most space available on your screen.
So, with so many advantages, why wouldn't I use a tiling window manager?
Most desktops already give me enough of the tiling features to suit my use case. Using KDE, or GNOME, I can already tile my windows if I want to. I can drag them to any corner or edge and have them use that screen size. In KDE, I even have a full tiling manager that I never use because I don't need it.
Sure, this edge tiling doesn't give you as much flexibility as a full tiling window manager, but for me personally, it's more than enough. And it all comes down to my use case: I make videos.
Which means I have 2 modes: research / writing mode, and video editing mode. In the first, I need 2 windows: A browser for research, and QOwnNotes to write. Sometimes, I'll use a virtual machine as well, but tiling this on a laptop display doesn't make sense, so I open it full screen on a virtual desktop.
In editing mode, I have my video editor, Davinci Resolve, in full screen. Again, not something a tiling WM would help me with.
My panel autohides behind windows, so it doesn't take up space, and while I do have title bars, I also don't have gaps between my windows when they're tiled, or between a window and a screen edge, so I'm actually pretty sure it's the exact same screen space usage.
I also don't lose out on configuration, at least on KDE: I can change all these shortcuts, I can change how windows open by default, they remember their previous size, it works. And finally, most of the time, I work on a laptop. It's a 16 inch screen, but it's still a laptop. And tiling there is just completely inefficient and makes things way too small.
What I'm saying is that yes, a tiling window manager is really useful, and cool, but it's NOT for every use case and every user.

Пікірлер: 991

@TheLinuxEXP 3 ай бұрын

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@SrFooosk 3 ай бұрын

As a programmer, I use a tiled window manager because I find it more comfortable and easier to modify. Still, I wouldn't recommend a tiled wm to 90% of the people I know, for the same reason I wouldn't recommend vim to 90% of the people I know. There are suitable tools for each type of workflow, we must take advantage of the variety instead of entering into elitism.

@paladin80lvl Ай бұрын

I more like Windows 11's window manager

@codeawareness Ай бұрын

This. Programming, especially web dev often requires multiple disparate tools, all running in terminal. Tiling really helps there.

@heindijs Ай бұрын

Webdev really is the reason I've thinking about using a tiling manager. It becomes a mess so quickly without it.

@encycl07pedia- Ай бұрын

@@heindijs The uploader is an absolute scrub making things up like "You'll never stop changing the config!". I've used DWM for years and had maybe 5-7 customization sessions, most of which were very early on. As a matter of fact, I usually use monocle mode (every window is fullscreen and you flip between them) and only tile if I really need to multitask.Rarely do I need to look at two windows at the same time. But a tiler is way better than dragging windows. You can do floating in DWM (and many other tilers), too, so it's not like you lose the ability. Rather you gain something more and better than a half-and-half or four corners split. Tilers are just better than window snapping because they don't require user input at all, though you still maintain complete control. And there are like less than 10 keystrokes I actually needed to learn, so it's not like it's hard (switching to DWM).

@mikewhy709 12 күн бұрын

Also a programmer and I feel like that's why I can't get into a tiling window manager. I do lots of webdev / responsive layouts, so my app window isn't a consistent width. My terminals width is based on whatever is comfortable for what I'm running at the moment. And with my editor I try to target 80-100 characters width, but sometimes like to have a 2 or 3-way split. So basically nothing is a consistent width.

@luiscampos6064 3 ай бұрын

As youtuber rwxrob said: My window manager is TMUX. And it is only used when we work with cli-tools, neovim, etc. and we are focused with zero distractions and we minimize the use of the mouse. When this "deep work workflow" finishes, we use the PC normally with GUI like KDE or Gnome.

@joe--cool 3 ай бұрын

If you want to do it to the extreme, you can use tmux or byobu from KMSCON without any Xorg or Wayland. My battery lasts almost forever like that. w3m even supports images in that mode.

@davidboeger6766 3 ай бұрын

That sounds like a really biased viewpoint to me. What if someone's work involves developing a complex web application and they need multiple browser windows open for testing various states? Or using specific tools like Microsoft's debuggers, which are well-supported from a GUI context? Not all serious programming work happens in a terminal. I fully agree that tmux is a better tool for tiling terminals than any window manager because the workflow applies universally, even when connecting to a server via serial port. But terminals are not the only tools people use to get actual work done.

@luiscampos6064 3 ай бұрын

Hi @davidboeger6766 . Of course it depends on the tasks and the development environment. I find it very interesting to have a minimalist and lightweight development environment where the workflow be free-distractions allows us to focus deeply in programming, at least to have it configured with .dotfiles in our local machine as an alternative. Later, the work priorities within a development team may force us to use other tools. This is not a complaint against graphical interfaces (aka GUI) quite the opposite. The video talks about Windows Manager and I give the option not to install them using tmux instead with a point of view in deep-work philosophy...as a Zen-Mode environment. I have installed GUI tools like VS Code, Obsidian, Steam, etc on Fedora 39 Workstation.

@marloelefant7500 2 ай бұрын

I disagree with the "focused" part. Using the cli is just another way of using the computer, it doesn't need any more focus than clicking around like crazy. I'm using the cli every few minutes, and I have a dedicated monitor for it displaying nothing but command-line. There is no "mode switch" for me where I'm anything more focused just because I happen click around in PyCharm.

@codeawareness Ай бұрын

This is something i crave, but i've never been able to have a stable tmux, it's always giving me headaches. I would love to have saved layouts with open files at exactly the spot I left them. VM save, sleep and restore kind of thing. If there's a good way to do this with tmux (no VM or docker) i'd love to have some links.

@JakoTheWacko 3 ай бұрын

7:20 I'll bite. Using vim-like browser extensions such as Surfing Keys or vimium allows for incredibly fast keyboard navigation of webpages. When you press the 'f' key, each link will have a tag pop up indicating an associated 2 letter combo that will automatically click that link. It's definitely faster if you're already deep in keyboard-oriented software land.

@FrankCastiglione 3 ай бұрын

Yeah, qutebrowser too.

@BaptistPiano 3 ай бұрын

Was about to comment this. Using vimium makes it way faster fight me.

@commentarysheep 3 ай бұрын

Vim was never my world, to be honest. I adore how powerful it is, the keyboard shortcuts are just too funky for my tastes. That is why I use Micro instead; it has the power of Vim, but with the traditional GUI text editor shortcuts. Best of both worlds, really, as those shortcuts are actually the ones that make me more productive.

@maxarendorff6521 3 ай бұрын

I use Vimium, but opening links with is not faster than with the mouse. I mostly use it to close tabs and move them around.

@Madinko12 3 ай бұрын

@@maxarendorff6521if you already have your hands on the keyboard, vimium is definitely faster. Otherwise, unless you are a FPS PGM, it's probably debatable, but I think it's pretty even. Still faster if you use a trackpad. At least in my experience.

@jlwtrading 3 ай бұрын

"If someone tells you... they are an idiot" ... The best line ever!

@davegesell5470 3 ай бұрын

Yeah ... far too many people say things like "This is better" when what they really mean is "I prefer this".

@kirkkork 3 ай бұрын

I think a lot of people don't realize the difference between what you consider to be the best vs what fits you the best/your favorite.

@gor. 3 ай бұрын

I'm using tiling WM and I agree with this line :D Even tho tiling WMs may be better, this should not be stated without "...if you are willing to spend a lot of time to learn/config/deal_with_a_lot_of_never_experienced_problems_which_are_solvable_but_take_time."

@DV-ml4fm 3 ай бұрын

I use both a desktop manager and a titling manager i.e i3 and switch between them occasionally.

@pldcanfly 3 ай бұрын

So much truth. While I do love me some Hyprland (mainly for the complete customizability), I also like KDE and Gnome in it's own ways. The best tool is the tool you are comfortable with. Are there ways to improve productivity with something hypercustimizable? For sure. Are they needed? Most likely not. I see twms as something that is really great if you enjoy tinkering.

@MH_VOID 3 ай бұрын

I've used Sway the past 2 years, but for the past year or so, I use it TABBED, not tiled - basically, 99% of the time I have ~8 workspaces open, each with 2-4 windows, and each window is maximized and I use Super, Shift, 0-9, and WASD (plus some Q and E - Super+Q swaps to the previous active workspace) to switch. Even when gaming, I find myself using maximized, not fullscreen windows, and when programming, sometimes I will tile into 2 or 3 windows displayed at once, but usually it's just a workspace with a terminal, Emacs, and web browser instance tabbed on a single workspace and I swap between them with Super+{A/D}

@qlx-i 3 ай бұрын

yeah, exactly. Tiling WMs are usually good for big/multiscreens, but for low diagonals quarter-tiled window is usually the bare minimum you can go. When i used sway i also spent most of the time in tabbed layouts, then i moved to hyprland and you know what i did? I have a bind (Super-Alt-F) that maximises the window, and i eventually found myself using mainly it, rarely undoing it as a sort of alt-tab move. Tiling is great for seeing alt-tab layouts though :)

@stragulus 3 ай бұрын

This is what I roughly do as well. Multiple virtual desktops, each typically with 1 application maximized. I use the numpad 1-9 to switch directly to a virtual desktop. The absolute addressing of a specific desktop is what makes it super fast for me to work. I prefer moving my hand over to the numpad over, say some key + number, because it's a bit more strain. The only things I do indeed tile are multiple terminals on a single virtual desktop.

@shApYT 3 ай бұрын

That's basically what I do on gnome.

@alexstone691 3 ай бұрын

Im sad KDE does not have tabbed windows anymore

@MaisistkeinGemuese 3 ай бұрын

06:18 as weird as it sounds, this part is something I like while using a Computer. While it is true that it's a tool for most of us, sometimes I like the little breaks from being purely productive, like a robot, and resize my Windows and do other non-productive stuff.

@yusefaslam9675 3 ай бұрын

Couldn't of said it better

@tozpeak 3 ай бұрын

It's like organizing papers on a desk, while organizing your mind in background. 😄

@ReturnJJ 3 ай бұрын

@@tozpeakthis assumes I organize my desk at all 😂 I like tiling window managers *because* it organizes my windows automatically for me, I find it a major hassle to resize and drag windows back and forth, and the worst thing to me is when your compositor does something that screws up all your familiar and comfortable positions and I now have to re-organize everything again from no fault of my own. Half my Sway actions are still mouse based, and half my workspaces are tabbed instead of tiled, I just like to *not* deal with aligning windows myself. It stresses me out. I rarely even go into my Sway config, and if I do once every 3 months, it’s to add or patch the window to workspace rules, and it then continues to collect dust. (disclaimer: I haven’t finished the video, I just scroll while watching lol)

@cmdjl5755 3 ай бұрын

I mean, Humans don't care about themselves bruh. Time not worked, is time not worked which you're not gonna get paid for.

@whiteerdydude 3 ай бұрын

@@ReturnJJ your a pretty niche user though. Resizing windows are a very basic task on pretty much every desktop environment (and even in windows somehow lol). If you are being stressed out about say "super key + up" or "double click the title bar", I'd be worried about your feedback for any steps in a software if I was a developer. And if you can whiz around the internet with no problems but heaven forbid you have to adjust your workspace, that feels less to do with the workspace. There is software for everyone on linux though for a reason. It's truely the most accessible operating system.

@007arek 3 ай бұрын

For me TW is not about tiling but about ergonomic. It's just a more advanced way to manage your windows, so it doesn't matter too much in this sense if you have one or few windows per workspace. Many ppl recommend a TW to remove pain in wrist, so you don't need to use so often your mouse. It's also great when you are lazy and use a laptop on your couch. Additionally TWs come with scrachpads, rules for windows and support for sequential keybindings.

@Zinojn 3 ай бұрын

Tiling window managers are only valuable if you have a traditional low resolution monitor layout. With one portrait 4k monitor and one landscape 4k monitor, tiling windows managers just suck.

@007arek 3 ай бұрын

@@Zinojn no, you can have virtual monitors. On windows they have paid programs that manage your windows in such monitors.

@Zinojn 3 ай бұрын

@@007arek I have two 4k monitors though. I have multiple different windows open at all times, Discord, 3 browser windows, telegram, signal, android messages, obsidian, file managers, xfreeRDP if i need it to my work machine, etc. All of this I can fit between both monitors at the same time. I even overlap some windows if I need to(and keep them overlapped) but have a bit of the window available on either the left, right, top bottom so i can easily switch just by clicking the viewable area of the window i want to switch to, no movement required. If I had a single monitor, even 4k, I would for sure use a tiling window manager and customize it how I want, but it just doesn't make sense when you have one portrait 4kand one landscape 4k, it's hard enough to fill up all those pixels.

@davidboeger6766 3 ай бұрын

I'm extremely skeptical of claims that avoiding the mouse can help mitigate pain. I'm a software engineer, and everywhere I've worked, there have been people with carpal tunnel who need to wear wrist braces throughout the day as a result of working on the computer (primarily keyboard) all their lives. It's more a matter of repetitive motion than mouse vs. keyboard, and if you're really cramming more raw productivity in by using keyboard shortcuts, you're almost certainly doing more typing and increasing your risk of developing such issues down the line unless you take intentional breaks for comfort.

@Clanps 3 ай бұрын

@@davidboeger6766 it's all about taking the time to stretch, I'm on the computer typing and gaming for multiple hours a day and I haven't gotten carpal tunnel before. I take the time to stretch every hour or so for about a minute or two.

@Fitz557 3 ай бұрын

I had no idea Tiling Window Managers existed, and looking at it makes me think like it would be a solution for a problem I never had.

@greg_land 3 ай бұрын

One day while sitting at my computer i said to myself... WTF.. I ALWAYS want either everything fullscreen or two windows side by side... why doesn't it just do that for me... Installed i3 and will never go back. One week later my shoulder stopped hurting since I was no longer reaching for a mouse to move windows around.

@fakecubed 2 ай бұрын

@@greg_land Sounds like you need to spend more time in the gym.

@greg_land Ай бұрын

@@fakecubed en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury

@eldiegoasecas Ай бұрын

@@greg_land super + left/right/up/down

@paultapping9510 15 күн бұрын

@@fakecubeda gym won't help with rsi.

@markhaus 3 ай бұрын

As a more unique example of why you might want a simple tiling window manager. The steam deck. Because they are usually heavily keyboard driven, you can map steam deck inputs to manage the windows easily. Much nicer than the stock KDE IMO for the needs of the deck. Probably not as intuitive though

@qlx-i 3 ай бұрын

wait, actually tho.. arrows for moving, joystick for resizing, etc... You might be onto something!

@olbluelips 3 ай бұрын

This sounds cool. I might get a steam deck at some point, and I if so, hooking up a controller to a tiling WM might be a really cool idea.

@rightwingsafetysquad9872 2 ай бұрын

IMO, with such a small screen you’ve already lost as soon as you see any desktop environment.

@th13w 4 күн бұрын

You can still use kde. Just install tiling manager for kwin. If im not mistaken its called bismuth or stl like that

@olbluelips 3 ай бұрын

7:20 I used to agree, but I installed an extension called link hints that lets you jump to link with different keyboard buttons and it’s insanely good. No memorization needed because it overlays the buttons when prompted

@nichtgestalt 3 ай бұрын

One thing I really appreciate about tiling window managers is how easy it is to reinstall your configurations! Only a couple of files can reproduce your workflow on almost every Linux distribution. Also configuring my wms kinda forced me to learn Bash, Git, Neovim, Linux file system, in and outs of init systems and automating processes. Not to mention on how to make use of the Gnu core utils. But I get that not everybody has the patients to learn it and a DE works out of the box. Thank you very much for the video. I hoped to hear your take on tiling window managers one day!

@roundabout-host 3 ай бұрын

There are stacking window managers that have easy configs too...

@woodygilson3465 3 ай бұрын

Funny story: I learned about keybindings using i3, my first wm. Everything I use now is still set to those keybindings. I started there with the basic beginner text editors, nano and leafpad. A few years in, now I'm a Hyprland fanboy and my Linux learning has expanded, I've used several text editors and IDEs, but... and this is the "funny " part.... I've never used vim or neovim. I''ve got a sweet nano config, _and_ it's pretty to look at. I love it. I also use midnight commander for when I want a more visual, file manager type experience while editing files in the terminal, so I've just never had a reason to love vim and neovim the way its users do, but I respect it.

@Bunuffin 3 ай бұрын

From windows to KDE to now Hyprland... I will never go back, it's like going from gaming at 30Hz to a 144Hz, used Hyprland for a weak and i understand now, never ALT+TAB again, it's a chore... And it look cool, that's the beauty of linux, so many choices and alternatives

@starsetknight 3 ай бұрын

Literally me and I 100% agree

@prottentogo 3 ай бұрын

stupid question (total linux noob here), but how to you switch between programs then? say you have two workspaces with different apps within them...

@starsetknight 3 ай бұрын

@@prottentogo In hyprland you can't really minimize apps, so they're all available just go to the workspace with your app on it. There's no need to switch between programs.

@prottentogo 3 ай бұрын

I'm a mac user and I don't minimize apps either. But do I understand it right, that with a tiling wm in this case it's a two stage process (rather than one with cmd + tab) because first you have to go to the workspace and then arrow key to the app you want (when there are multiple apps active in that workspace)?@@starsetknight

@prottentogo 3 ай бұрын

@thelanavishnuorchestra 3 ай бұрын

XFCE has a bunch of tiling functionality for moving windows around, etc. Like window snapping (which I've turned off), and sending windows to the 4 quadrants of the current monitor. I kept those, but I've disabled a bunch of them, because I have a tiling script I wrote to move windows back and forth between monitors, toggle maximized, create a centered window for reading. Of course, none of them will work on Wayland, because they're full of X commands that Wayland will disallow. I also have a script to start my daily work apps in their specific places, on the specific monitors.

@ronsteed 3 ай бұрын

100% agree ... when I am on a single screen laptop I most often have 2 windows and that's it. At one point in my life I was working in DevOps and I had 3 large screens, tiling made sense for that.

@JosueRodriguez08 3 ай бұрын

I use tiling on my laptop so I can open one app per virtual desktop without clicking maximize and being able to move faster between them

@kirkkork 3 ай бұрын

@@JosueRodriguez08Do you mean you configured it such that every app creates a new virtual desktop?

@udittlamba 3 ай бұрын

I use ubuntu laptop for programming and I am the fully loaded IDE kinda web developer so technically my tiled windows(db, console, git etc) are inside that IDE. Which means the screen real estate is already limited for one window.

@danielpicassomunoz2752 3 ай бұрын

I need the wm to rapidly set one window to the left and the other to the right

@angeldude101 3 ай бұрын

If I want two windows visible at once, then I don't want to waste time telling the desktop to lay them out side-by-side. One key-combination is all I need to switch from my default "maximize everything" mode, and one more to switch back.

@shatterstone3045 3 ай бұрын

6:48 Wow, Nick I feel so called out! Jokes aside, I really, really enjoyed this video. It was refreshing to see the point of view of a DE user. I also want to mention that when it comes to tiling WMs, most people just keep windows in basically fullscreen and keep windows in different workspaces. I think THE main benefit to tiling window managers is keeping windows pretty much maximised the moment they're opened, and putting them on different workspaces. Personally, that's how I use a tiler. And most people realistically only use 2-3 windows. And you're right: they are not for everyone. And to be honest, there are also some windows that should not be tiled. For example, say I want to open my bluetooth settings page while in firefox because I want to connect my headphones watch this video. Should the bluetooth window take up half my screen? No. Should I switch to another workspace to work with a MASSIVE Bluetooth window for 30 seconds? No. Instead, the bluetooth wondow should open as a floating window so I connect my headphones, without any layout changes or complex workarounds. Some windows should be floating, and that's why app rules exist in pretty much any tiler.

@jas0x139 3 ай бұрын

Yeah that's how I use it too. Usually each workspace has one window, sometimes two. It's nice having them auto max and not having to deal with moving them. Also navigating workspaces is just much faster so getting to that app I put on 3 is quick. Moving between monitors is just as easy. Curious about your headphones. They don't auto connect? I have a pair of Bluetooth headphones I use a lot and if I turn them on they become default audio. If I turn it off audio seamlessly switches to other headphones.

@shatterstone3045 3 ай бұрын

@@jas0x139 I constantly switch my headphones between my laptop and phone. I have also had a lot of issues with bluetooth apps, so contrary to the example above, nowadays I just use "bluetoothctl" to connect my headphones

@michadybczak4862 3 ай бұрын

I need to interact with sites during my work, so I constantly have to drag-drop files into specified areas, or click certain web elements to interact with them. I constantly move my file manager, or various windows, to accommodate that. I could open new windows to choose files, but to me, it feels like a bigger burden. Still, I use keyboard and shortcuts a lot as well. This is especially needed for switching between windows, elements of spreadsheets, etc. In those times, moving mouse feels like a burden and keys are faster. Having only one form of management would be too limiting for me. I did use tiling manager many years ago, and I know how fun it can be, but in the long run, I need flexibility.

@PaulG.x 3 ай бұрын

I like most of the apps I use to be maximised. So I used the "Auto Move Windows" extension to place specific apps onto specific workspaces ,fully maximised. For the few apps that I use on the same workspace , I use Tactile extension to place the app in a specific area of the workspace.

@mirage809 3 ай бұрын

I enjoy the idea of autotiling. Attempting to make more optimal use of my screen space is a good idea. Heck, I really loved using Fancy Zones back on Windows. It wasn't full on tiling window managing, but greatly expanded the windows snapping features. Fairly similar to how KDE's tiler does things. I also really love the auto-tiling extension that System76 made for Gnome back in the day (it's still being maintained by the community now that System76 is moving away from Gnome). However, most of the time I just have my windows floating and just use the workspaces in Gnome and snap windows in place. It's not fancy, but it's simple and does exactly what I need. Also, speaking of funky window managers: PaperWM is a really cool idea. It's a Gnome extension that tiles all the windows as an endless horizontal strip that you can scroll through. Instead of workspaces you have different strips you can switch between. Oh and a floating layer on top that can be toggled to be invisible when you don't want to see it. It's a cool idea and really nice to use with touchpad swipes on my laptop.

@Grogueman 3 ай бұрын

You are a reader of my mind. I was searching about it yesterday and wham, you release a vid on it.

@davidturcotte831 3 ай бұрын

For me, it's not even about keyboard shortcuts. It's about automatic organization of mostly terminals. Plus, it's nice to have a webpage open then pop up a terminal that automatically resizes the browser and fits the terminal in. Then, I can work in the terminal along with the browser. It's also nice for graphical text editors for the same reason. I'm sure I have one on here somewhere...

@gorrumKnight 3 ай бұрын

For my main rig, hyprland is my poison. It's just so snappy & I can't go back to floating/stacking WM. But it's definitely not for everyone. As long as people have the option to run what they want that's what matters most.

@sunderkeenin 3 ай бұрын

I mostly interact with 1 or 2 apps at a time. The reason for a tiling WM is the nativity of workspaces. I could probably configure most floating wms to have the meta+1-0 binds for workspaces, but having the native distribution of my applications where I expect them to be where I want them to be and my awareness of what and where in my desktop without having to search is extraordinarily useful and comfortable. I would use a tiling WM even on a laptop for this reason alone. It's simple, it's easy, and it gets the job done cleanly.

@The8BitPianist 3 ай бұрын

Today is my second day on KDE (Tuxedo OS) and all those little helper features ("" the bloat"") are actually really lovely, so not a disadvantage if you've got good enough hardware. Also, it took me no time at all to get used to it, even though I'm coming from Gnome. That low barrier of entry compared with only menial productivity gains through a tiling manager doesn't make it worthwhile to switch. It's similar to switching from QWERTY to Dvorak. Technically maybe more efficient, but enough

@mylinuxgr5050 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for this video Nick. I agree with you about not pushing others about which mode is best for their workflow. There is freedom of choice! My use case is with multiple large monitors (three usually), where a tiling WM is really of great benefit. I am so much used to this mode that I cannot work easily otherwise. However, when I need to use my laptop, I use a regular desktop, for the same reasons you mentioned: the screen is too small for multiple windows to be open.

@toonedin Ай бұрын

TIL What a _"tiling window manager"_ was. And I've been experimenting with using Linux as my daily driver **since 1998**‼️ As my man observed in another video of his, I could finally make that change only in 2020 when Linux distributions developed enough to support off brand PCs in 3rd world countries like the one where I live. That was the primary contention why I couldn't move to Linux back in '98. I was not a nerd, but just a morally conscientious guy who was trying to avoid pirating Windows - because I couldn't afford to pay for software on top of financing the hardware. Today I can live off of FOSS completely free, both morally as well as financially. Because even today I can't afford paying for software.

@Matrox473 3 ай бұрын

When i started using I3 (then switched to Sway) i basically removed almost everything from the config and then added thing as i needed them. Also, as a past Hater of tiling WM, don't be afraid to use your mouse for stuff like resizing and moving windows. That's what made me switch from floating WM to Tiling.

@monochrome_linux 3 ай бұрын

Resizing is easier with the mouse on sway. So I stick to that.

@Zinojn 3 ай бұрын

Why not just have most apps in almost full screen but leave the corners or sides of the window pulled away from the right edge a bit. Then you can do the same for the window behind it (but on then left side). Then you can have the best of both worlds, full screen apps and switching between them with a single click, no resizing, etc. Tiling window managers are only valuable if you have a traditional and likely low resolution monitor layout. With one portrait 4k monitor and one landscape 4k monitor, tiling windows managers just suck.

@sereus86 3 ай бұрын

Hi! Nice episode, I think that I found my own way to handle windows in Linux I use daily tiling wm, mostly because my 3monitor setup. I use many terminals at once (when I wa gnome user i uses tilix > terminal with very useful tiling), but I like to keep my apps mostly in full window In i3wm or sway I could: - define how many workspaces I use - set up every workspace occupy one screen - I can assign behavior for every window/type of window - I can associate windows with exact workspace (for example my IMs/Mail/Music etc background apps are on one, smallest monitor, so I could focus on my main job) Tiling WM also allow me to organize my work. In Gnome and KDE when I try to find exact window I feel chaos. Now I know where is every window, or I can simply jump through all active workspaces.

@paultapping9510 15 күн бұрын

hello fellow Tilix enjoyer! Always nice to see one of the ten of us in the wild 😂

@mnoxman 3 ай бұрын

Having worked with CDE on SUN in the mid 90s the "Front" key on the keyboard was super handy. It moved the lowest most window to the top of the stack. Today with a macro keyboard (K55) you can do that with a "lower window" binding. Doing this you can take the window under the mouse and make it below all other windows. Now you can have a window stack and you can flip through it by banging on the "lower window" button. I find this useful for apps that are best full screen. Before tabs were in Konsole it was also great for a stack of xterms.

@mithrandirthegrey7644 3 ай бұрын

tbh I use both. I use a tiling window manager when I'm writing software. I need VIM, a console and usually some kind of hardware manual to look at pins etc. For office purposes, answering emails, talking to colleagues, browsing the web I still go to a normal desktop environment.

@gregcampwriter 3 ай бұрын

I use a desktop environment because it mimics the physical desktop that I learned how to use before I got involved with computers. Floating windows are naturally like the loose paper and books that are still on my desk.

@MichaelZimmermann 3 ай бұрын

You don't tile your desk? 🤐

@AM-yk5yd 3 ай бұрын

With extensions like vimium it's actually more effecient to navigate to link using keyboard: instead of pixel hunting or hunting you just press couple keys. The problem is many pages rely on hotkeys already, so half of the web you'll either be in insert mode or just turn it off for the site completely.

@jas0x139 3 ай бұрын

I don't think I have visited a site that overrides Vimium yet. I had a laugh when he said "I dare anyone to tell me" and scrolled until I found a Vimium comment. Can definitely open a link faster than I can grab my mouse just hitting something like "f df", or "shift f df" for a new tab.

@AM-yk5yd 3 ай бұрын

@@jas0x139 You are literally on such site now. `f` is full screen.

@t3n3t 3 ай бұрын

@@AM-yk5yd Nope, yt does not override vimium shortcuts. Just tested it as I write this comment.

@jeffrodrequez 3 ай бұрын

Like you, I struggled with tiling window managers mainly due to it not really fitting my workflow. I liked the ones that have both options, float or tile. When I am coding having multiple windows open side by side (tiling) works well, but when I am doing other things I need more screen real estate for the application and need to float them. Been using Wayfire in Wayland primarily for a while now, I like the way it handles workspaces. I have been experimenting with the PapwerWM extension in Gnome, too, recently and like it pretty well.

@mmxgn 3 ай бұрын

Recently, I found the PaperWM extension for gnome shell which offers a compromise between the regular gnome desktop and sensible keyboard-driven tiling while keeping connection between shortcuts and what happens on the screen (sliding left and right). That said, I am a 100% percent on you regarding consistency that's why I use a DE, although I've passed through a phase where I had an i3 set up. My biggest hurdle with Tiling WMs are that when you need to add a file manager this will look out of place. That and I cannot be bothered to keep modifying config files or remember a lot of different shortcuts to make things work (plus I need to do that in some cases because they override shortcuts I am used to setting to different functions, e.g. layout switching). Also, Windows has tiling! And it's actually quite good.

@maxarendorff6521 3 ай бұрын

I used to use i3wm, spectrwm, awesomewm..now I just use vanilla Gnome and haven't looked back. It's nice not having to fiddle around with config files for hours to do anything and I really like how consistent the look and feel of all the apps is. I also got tired of having to use the keyboard for everything. Sometimes I want to use the mouse too!? Plus touchpad gestures and physical scrolling in Firefox is something that only seems to work well in Gnome really and I really like that. On my laptop, I usually have all my apps maximised and I use keyboard shortcuts or touchpad gestures to switch between workspaces. If I ever need to tile something, I use the basic tiling feature that Gnome provides.

@Lampe2020 3 ай бұрын

Well, in KDE I can just hold the Super key and press the arrow keys to move+tile the window to the edge the arrow is pointing towards. Using the same shortcuts to move a window along the edge it's tiled on moves it to the corner of the screen. But I mostly just use Super+PgUp to maximize all my windows.

@severinheugabler 3 ай бұрын

I use KDE as well and for the terminal tmux, which could be seen as a "tiling window manager" for the terminal. Since sometimes in the terminal I want to spawn 2 extra panes to the 2 I normally work with that works perfectly. And the "virtual desktops" also works great with multiple sessions.

@moetocafe 3 ай бұрын

I utilize the virtual desktops of my DE, this is how I use more space, than the monitor provides, without the need to resort to multiple-monitor setups or tiling manager. Works for me very nicely.

@matthiasbendewald1803 3 ай бұрын

I used tiling wms for some years and switched to gnome for some reason. I wanted to test it and liked it better than my custom tiling setup. So i completely agree, the type of graphical Environment isnt that impotant for me. This one and only feature that i miss is the handling of multiple monitors. That is just so much better on tiling wms, and it is often overlooked.

@lechi_2002 3 ай бұрын

I only find tiling useful for terminals so I use a terminal multiplexer and a full desktop environment to get the best of both worlds.

@angeldude101 3 ай бұрын

For me, it was actually using a terminal multiplexer when I didn't have access to a graphical environment that made me to switch to a tiling window manager. I didn't want to lose the simplicity and screen efficiency when going back to a graphical environment.

@oalfodr 3 ай бұрын

It is the other way around for me. I find tilers useful for everything. But I never get in situations like in youtube videos where people open 4+ windows on one screen. I mostly have one and just sometimes quickly spawn another browser instance next to it to compare stuff, copy paste or such, or secondary tools I will be using for a minute or so. But I use several workspaces on each of my monitors

@guss77 3 ай бұрын

Most my windows are maximised (great for reviewing logs) but if I want to multiplex terminals I use Plasma quick tiling shortcuts to do a half+quarters windows, or sth

@oalfodr 3 ай бұрын

After years of using dwm, I do not think I could use a computer without something similar. I have not changed any of its behavior for over a year and I only updated shortcuts after switching to 40% keyboard. I am also sucker for consistency and that is why I like it even more. KDE users often end up using some GTK apps and similar while I only use GTK or completely custom interface using stuff like dwm. I use dwm for all text inputs and option selections, fzf for cases where I want to make some preview... All my apps look the same and tbh I have never seen more consistent environment. Another things is use on laptops: I think it helps me even more as there is no chance something will spawn floating. Even if using one window on a workspace, I cannot see how its default is worse and I can only see it as same (or worse if some app do not open fullscreen in DE). Thanks for talking about tilers even if you do not like them

@AlexandruVoda 3 ай бұрын

I recommend you try a scrolling-tiling WM like Karousel(Plasma), PaperWM(Gnome), niri (Smithay compositor), Cardboard (wlroots compositor, Archived). It is a different concept that I find much more appealing compared to clasic tiling WMs (static or dynamic). I find that it enables entirely logical grouping of windows in virtual desktops because the surface is effectively infinite compared to a classical tiling WM where the size of the surface is limited and therefore that becomes a factor into how you group windows into virtual desktops.

@mtpolak 3 ай бұрын

Exactly! I often wondering how this concept would be tangled with a Gnome's Overview, so the ribbon of windows would be viewed as a whole (zoomed out) and virtual desktops arranged vertical again and become real "activities space".

@konishiwoi 3 ай бұрын

Your reasons were very VERY relatable. I also wouldn't rather have one full-screen, or two apps in split screen PER virtual desktops, and switch between virtual desktops with keyboard shortcuts or a slide on my touchpad, than having lots of tiny app on one screen. I never have a use case where I need more than 2 or three static apps on my screen. It's usually a web browser, a note or office document and a file explorer hiding behind

@sergeykish 3 ай бұрын

Tiling WM opens my applications full-screen, split screen with a shortcut, provides plenty of virtual desktops. Stacking WMs open lots of tiny apps.

@konishiwoi 3 ай бұрын

@@sergeykish I’m not sure what you’re saying.

@sergeykish 3 ай бұрын

@@konishiwoi you've described reasons to use tiling WM, right?

@LorikQuinn 3 ай бұрын

Broke: Uses Tiling WM for 99999 windows opened Woke: Uses an old tablet or phone for all the extra stuff you don't wanna bother doing in the pc.

@konishiwoi 3 ай бұрын

@@LorikQuinn for so long before getting a monitor at my desk, I used to rely on my iPad as a secondary "display" to show my ressources material while doing the work on my 13" laptop

@TheSast 3 ай бұрын

7:17 , it is it really is. Most if not all keyboard extensions for browsers or keyboard-centric browsers let you follow a link on scrun and you select it with a label. You have direct access to the link instead of having to hope the contents of the page, and the distance from the clickable item don't change by moving the mouse.

@SimonSargerson Ай бұрын

The vimium extension for browsers and specifically Qutebrowser changed my life in this regard.

@SamuelPortela 3 ай бұрын

Great video, as always. Keep up with the good work!!!

@Tomas_F. 15 күн бұрын

Thank you for the Tuxedo ad. As I live in Czechia, I would happily support local quality products.

@sprinklednights 3 ай бұрын

Very valid points. Personally, I've been using a tiling window manager for some time. I saw this one blog post, who showed off his tiling window manager setup, and I kind of wanted to try it out too (because I like trying out new things). Never looked back honestly. I don't think I'd ever be able to go back to a regular floating window manager, especially on a laptop where it's just so much better to navigate. Hearing your point that using a cursor to move your windows around give a certain kind of connection to it, which might also be a con (at least for me). You use a computer to achieve a task, and you shouldn't think much about anything else in my opinion. A tiling window manager simply just removes another thought of my head whenever I want to accomplish something on my computer. Nevertheless, I completely understand why you'd prefer a Desktop Environment over a tiling window manager. Consistency is something I missed when using a tiling window manager. Often times you need to learn other applications in the meantime since you probably come from your Desktop Environment to your tiling window manager with all the applications you need, and for the core applications, they just don't work or flow as well as they do on their respective Desktop Enviroment, which meant goodbye to applications I was used to like Thunar. If I was using a floating window manager, I'd still keep two habits of it: 1. Using keyboard shortcuts 2. Using workspaces Both of these don't require a tiling window manager, yet they make you much more productive, which you're probably already doing. At the end of the day though, it's only a matter of taste, however, I came to the conclusion that no matter what you use as your Desktop Environment for example, you need to learn the tools you got.

@rainmannoodles 3 ай бұрын

The main benefit I see to tiling is that once you have it set up you often don't even really need to think about where your windows are, and achieving an ideal layout is much faster. Plus, when connecting/disconnecting monitors it keeps things much more consistent. One huge tip: make sure you have a floating layout available (either in the layout rotation or via a hotkey) which effectively lets you disable tiling on a specific display/space on demand. That lets you jump back to traditional behavior when you need, while still using the tiler where it makes sense. As for what I use: I'm on a Mac, using Amethyst. I do want to try Yabai which I believe is more customizable, but so far I just haven't gotten around to it since I've never run into a limitation with Amethyst yet. Another tip: set up one space as a "fullscreen" layout. You can dump windows into that space and they all resize to fill the screen, then you just switch between them and only the top one is visible. I have over 40 browser windows on one screen and I never even think about where they are, I just activate them with hotkeys and/or Raycast commands and it just pops up the one I need.

@exnihilonihilfit6316 3 ай бұрын

Who and why connects and disconnects monitors while working?!

@RafaCoringaProducoes 3 ай бұрын

Nick great video, but... Somethings you missed: -tilling window managers are great for multi monitor setups. Since you have an ultrawide, something like the "fancy zones" for linux could fit you better. -tillingWM are great for saving resorces in low spec machines like raspberry 4 as daily driver -some people not me like to have "vim based keyboard shortcuts programs" like that pdf reader Zarathustra or something, its kinda like a desktop enviroment DIY with coese design. Also "pywall" can make your terminal apps coese with collors -system minimalism could be a way of reducing the lines of code to better security...kinda -users of devorak tend to have problems on shortcut keys -the best at last: lxqt+i3 is really easy to setup! Im keeping an eye on lxqt or xfce+sway when ready!

@nathanfranck5822 3 ай бұрын

I was hard-core into trying the Tiling Window Manager thing, having dove down the Linux rabbit hole.... Once I started creating tiles that just displayed pleasant looking images to frame in a smaller window that I actually did work in --- I finally realized it wasn't for me. I like seeing my desktop and mousing around my windows. I've played enough FPS and RTS games that the mouse is not my limiting factor when using my computer. Also if you don't want wrist pain, don't get a keyboard with a numpad, if you really need one later they exist as separate peripherals.

@GWFO 3 ай бұрын

Babe wake up the LINUX EXPERIMENT JUST UPLOADED ❤😊

@GameCyborgCh 3 ай бұрын

I wonder if Apple and Microsoft haven't made their window managers a floating one and instead made a tiling one, if we'd made the argument "Why you need a floating window manager?" because of it's flexible window placing or something

@insomniaReigns 3 ай бұрын

Windows 1.0 actually was a tiling window manager and not floating

@AyaWetts 3 ай бұрын

Windows has a lot of tiling like features today

@dritterregenschirm2324 3 ай бұрын

Apple kind of has a tiling wm with ios / ipados

@syrefaen 3 ай бұрын

I replaced explorer or the 'desktop window manager' once just to tile on windows. I really dislike the hot corners, just put it on a key please. The issue if u disable hot corners you cant use keybinds anymore.

@mrcvry 3 ай бұрын

@@dritterregenschirm2324macOS has the same.

@rGunti 3 ай бұрын

I've started using Whim (a tiling window manager for Windows) which I do like a lot. I get some strange behaviour but that's mostly from apps that can't go small enough or some garbage-ware that likes to draw invisible windows. The thing I like most is that I can get windows sorted into their dedicated workspace automatically, so I have my things all sorted in the right place, I have my communications screen with a mail client, chat and notes, while I have a seperate workspace for just my IDE and one for my browser. And it has a command pallet which is searchable and shows the configured keyboard shortcuts which helps me learn them (and the config is written in a C# script, which is a lot better for myself that any of those strange text configs with keywords). And that is where I end it. At home, I don't do that, because I don't need it. It's just extra work to get something setup that already works on a regular WM by default. And as you said: Most defaults are good enough.

@FunctionallyLiteratePerson 3 ай бұрын

Years ago, I was much more of a gamer than I am now. I had issues with tiling WMs trying to force fullscreen games to windowed mode at weird resolutions. It would be more usable on a larger screen, but like you I was using a smaller laptop at the time. Whenever I'd try to prevent that from happening, I believe I had to do it on a case by case basis, which was not going to happen because I played a lot of games and switched between them constantly. I'm sure there were better ways to do that at the time, but I was very much still learning a lot of things and it just wasn't worth messing with that on top of everything else. Now, I still don't think I'd go for it. While I do productive things on my computers, a large portion is for me to have fun. I don't want to feel like I'm doing work while I'm trying to relax

@onldhes 3 ай бұрын

As a big fan of tiling window managers, this is a great video that covers pretty much everything. I'm going to use this video to show other people what tiling window managers are. I think this covers the pros and cons of tiling window managers incredibly well and the line about someone who tells you you needs to use a tiling window manager is an idiot is dead on. But to add my two cents. I personally love tiling window managers on laptops as I can't stand track pads or ThinkPad nubs and don't always have a mouse with me when I'm using my laptop. I also was mostly using terminal programs like Vim and Ranger before I even made to switch to tiling window managers, so the workload of tiling window managers really works well for me as the only non-terminal programs I ever really use are Firefox and GIMP.

@kainoa82858 3 ай бұрын

7:20 I dare, then. Using a browser or extension that offers vim-like bindings to navigate pages by keywords and using binds to follow and traverse links can be more efficient, especially in high-density sites like Wikis.

@KipIngram Ай бұрын

I take a very simple approach. I work on a 13" notebook. I maintain several workspaces. Each one is either a single full-screen application (my browser, my newsreader, whatever movie or TV show I might be watching...) or else it's a panel in my console workspace. I operate my console workspace as a tiled set of console sessions, and that's where I spend 90% of my time. I never resize those panels - I've got 'em the way I like them and they stay that way. The top-left console panel is sized 80 columns by 25 rows - the traditional size of an old IBM PC monitor, and I run IRC there, which is my primary social network. All of the others are various sizes and I use them for whatever I need to use them for moment to moment. At the very bottom left is a quite small panel that shows me my battery status, my current draw, my fan speed, and my top 5 cpu consuming processes. I have NO interest in mixing graphical and console apps in one workspace. So as far as the OS is concerned I only use full-screen apps. My console split is done in my terminal emulator.

@cjmoss51 3 ай бұрын

Do you have any info on the dotfiles or w/e you used for the setup at 2:22? Id like to give it a try at least

@MeaTLoTioN 3 ай бұрын

I love how everyone is discussing this in a nice and positive way, I switched to using i3 some 5-6 years ago, and sway about a year ago, and started using hyprland just a month ago. I will never go back to a DTE because a TWM suites me and my work flow better, but I absolutely love and appreciate the look of a DTE too, well the nicely polished ones anyway =). Thanks for the video, Nick, nice to see your thoughts on it. No one should tell anyone that they're dumb for using a DTE (or vice versa), I like to demonstrate the simplicity of my TWM, the setup is so easy on them also, and if you make your own keybindings, then you even don't need to "learn" them as you made them already based on what feels right. Happy tinkering y'all!

@MH_VOID 3 ай бұрын

Ah yes, a Dumb Terminal Emulator, the counterpart to a Tiling Window Manager

@MeaTLoTioN 3 ай бұрын

Ah no@@MH_VOID I meant DeskTop Environment, no Wyse cracks intended!

@MH_VOID 3 ай бұрын

@@MeaTLoTioN I figured that out partway through my reply. I've just never heard someone add the 'T' before, and the thing is, KDE literally stands for "K Desktop Environment' (after 'CDE', the Common Desktop Environment), so it's quite canonical

@MeaTLoTioN 3 ай бұрын

@@MH_VOIDI don't know where I first heard/read DTE referred to as the abbreviation for Desktop Environment, but it's stuck somehow in spite it being incorrect so appologies for mistyping 🤣 but glad it's cleared up now 🙏

@MeaTLoTioN 3 ай бұрын

Actually, it might be from back in the day when we used DTP or DeskTop Publishers like Corel Draw or something, and I just transposed it for my own use lol. Either way, apologies.

@pradeepmalar327 3 ай бұрын

The tiling options are really good that come with gnome. Good enough for my use case

@ironfist7789 3 ай бұрын

Yup, I like gnome and am learning tmux for tiling for the terminal windows

@JoelJosephReji 3 ай бұрын

I would argue that the killer feature of a tiling wm is the virtual desktop/workspaces. Especially how we can assign specific windows to open in specific workspace is a great way to get organized. And certainly the super+0...9 shortcut to switch between the workspaces blazingly fast!

@AlanCristoffer 3 ай бұрын

I use another kind of tiling that I'm not sure if the name is right: snap tiling. I have shortcuts to put the window in many pre-defined places, like the second two-third, third quadrant or center sixth, but the wm is not going to do it automatically. So basically it's a floating window manager with a lot of shortcuts for placing windows in those boxes. It's what works the best for me, as I hate auto-tilers moving stuff around when a new window appears but like to have some consistency and ease (and shortcuts) in the placement of my windows.

@anandmahamuni5442 3 ай бұрын

I love twms, but the switch can be hard to make, but once you are satisfied with it, it feels brilliant. But I don't mind people using DE's.

@ultrasquid579 3 ай бұрын

Tiling window managers seem like a good choice for laptops. On laptops, screen real estate is at a premium, battery life is essential, and minimizing mouse usage is good because touchpads are not a great experience. The biggest problem with this is that on a laptop, you also really want stability, where tiling window managers are the last place you would want to look. I'm really hopeful that Cosmic DE takes off. Having the stability and feature set of a DE, but the productivity of a window manager, sounds like the best choice all around.

@TheLinuxEXP 3 ай бұрын

Tiling more than 2 windows on a laptop makes everything too small to be usable IMO

@SilverSeleucid 3 ай бұрын

I am a tiling enjoyer for laptops and full desktop environments for my office pc. been using a macbook recently and switching to Yabai was amazing, with the touch pad navigation on mac my macbook is super efficient with yabai. for linux I just use i3 but on my gaming pc and media station i use cinnamon or windows. keeps things simple. tiling for mobile workflows, desktops for gaming and media stuff. i am a one window one workspace kinda guy so tiling just helps when i need to open a quick file etc

@thesun___ 2 күн бұрын

I've never needed a tiling window manager, but I use one anyway to make my friends think I am a productivity wizard and/or hacker god.

@suhaskuthnikar8549 3 ай бұрын

I'm using KDE + Bismuth it's works like a charm for me, i can change layout, resize move without touching mouse.

@prgnify 3 ай бұрын

Bismuth or polonium? (or something else entirely?) I thought Bismuth was broken in 5.27

@suhaskuthnikar8549 3 ай бұрын

@@prgnify yes Bismuth it's still working perfectly fine.

@prgnify 3 ай бұрын

@@suhaskuthnikar8549 cheers, I'll give it a go then!

@temari2860 3 ай бұрын

Fully agree, and I'd add a couple more reasons to that list: Most apps aren't designed to be tiled and don't really handle unusual sizes well. Yes, modern apps try to be adaptive and be usable with any size/ratio but most apps still aren't like this, and in a lot cases you'll have a window either too wide and short or too tall and thin to be properly usable. I like my apps to have good amount of padding and reasonable size so the elements aren't too close or too far away from each other. With a WM I often end up resizing everything while trying to make apps look right. Sometime overlapping is good: often times I have a part of my app space that I don't use much or at all and I often put a picture-in-picture video playing in there, instead of resizing the entire window and making all other elements I do need smaller. Sometimes that would not be a video but a calculator or a document to read but you get the idea.

@Bo15307 3 ай бұрын

In i3, sway and probably most other tiling wms you can just make the calculator or pip window floating. In fact, this is the default behaviour for unresizable windows. What I feel a tiling wm gives me is an environment which forces me to use workspaces, in an intuitive way. So if I need Firefox I just go to 1 terminal 2 code editor 3. It’s really convenient and easy to switch between them that way and makes a 2:nd monitor not mandatory. Also, if I’m doing anything in one workspace I usually just keep 1-2 windows there and of if I would pull up another window it doesn’t become a hassle to see the contents.

@MH_VOID 3 ай бұрын

You've gotta be the only picture-in-picture user in the world. Always hated that, and every time I clicked it it was an annoying misclick I had to correct immediately.

@temari2860 3 ай бұрын

Picture-in-picture is great, I use it all the time. I especially enjoyed the idea Elementary OS had with their ability to snippet a part of the screen and have it in pip. It's a way to have only exactly what you need on screen without any wasted space, which is very needed when you only need a video and not all the rest of your web browser.@@MH_VOID

@steffenp7384 3 ай бұрын

Agreed with all your points. I don't currently use a tiling windows manager, but wanted to throw in the argument on the web browser mouse part, and finding a link sucking out of the box with most browsers. Vimium plugin for chromium based browsers does however make it very easy to use a keyboard to do all the web browsing stuff.

@Thomas--Anderson 3 ай бұрын

@TheLinuxEXP Nick what is the name of the wallpaper I see in a few shots on your desktop?

@CTimmerman 3 ай бұрын

No more mouse? Then how do you drag & drop a file/path to another window? App-specific keys?

@whoman0385 3 ай бұрын

you still use your mouse for apps just not for managing your windows and moving them (unless your using hyprland which can do that)

@OhhCrapGuy 3 ай бұрын

We generally don't have any reason to do things like that because we're not operating under the same design paradigm that was developed for floating window managers. When GUIs were designed with the mouse at the forefront, everything was centered around how to represent different environments in ways that could be manipulated with the mouse. That meant that if you wanted to move a file, the people designing the GUI you use asked themselves "how do we do that *with a mouse*?" Using a tiling window system usually means fundamentally trying to break that mindset and find more efficient ways to do things.

@CTimmerman 3 ай бұрын

@@OhhCrapGuy Tiling is more efficient at drag & drop because you don't have to hover the task button to raise a window to make it visible.

@exnihilonihilfit6316 3 ай бұрын

@@CTimmerman You don't have to hover the task button in DEs, too: you start dragging (and hold the mouse button left pressed), then simply change to the window you want with the normal shortcuts for switching the active window ([Shift] Alt+Tab or whatever). Then drop into the new window.

@CTimmerman 3 ай бұрын

@@exnihilonihilfit6316 True, but that requires two hands.

@debasishraychawdhuri 3 ай бұрын

I use all apps in maximized form and I switch between them using alt+tab. So, I think I use the screen space most efficiently since you can only work on one thing at a time.

@1.0 3 ай бұрын

That's the same thing as having one window open per virtual desktop in a tiling window manager. Except for the fact that you can address virtual desktops directly with shortcuts and them being more flexible in other ways. Tiling is just awesome

@debasishraychawdhuri 3 ай бұрын

@@1.0 you can do the same in gnome

@gordslater 3 ай бұрын

99% of my desktop time I need 100% full-screen, full width, single browser, in your face, as big I can get it. And for the small amount of time I'm *not* watching pron, tmux covers that just fine

@charliegolf2730 3 ай бұрын

I started using PaperWM, and it's been perfect for my desktop usage. I like the style of tiling wm's, but never bothered installing one.

@esra_erimez 3 ай бұрын

I really needed this video. Well done

@Thorhian 3 ай бұрын

I don't like using a laptop without a tiling window manager. Personally I find DE's to be annoying for the way I want to use my computer despite their many conveniances and get in my way, especially with the many, many hotkeys and shortcuts that are built into them automatically. Some people just want Visual Studio Code and maybe a few plugins and don't want to touch anything else. Others want (n)vim and emacs and they want the flexibility and blank slate they offer to form into their own workflow and vision. It's not *just* about the tiling aspect of these window managers, but how easy it is for someone to craft them into exactly what they want and have nothing else.

@iamnotwizard91 3 ай бұрын

One interesting use case for tiling wm - kiosk-like specialized stations. Some time ago we made "CCTV station for security guard" with just 2 layout general and focus on specific camera. And without options for user to break anything.

@-aexc- 3 ай бұрын

I literally haven't touched my sway config since I set up sway a year and a half ago, it's great

@Maisonier 3 ай бұрын

However, we also need a thorough analysis of the TILING WINDOW MANAGERS to see how they stack up in terms of memory and energy usage, performance, stability, community engagement, and updates, etc., comparing i3, sway, and hyprland.

@ErgLeuk 3 ай бұрын

I use shortcuts in Gnome to tile windows to the left and right edges. That's all I need. Even on my 16" screen, that's about the best you can do on a laptop. Just like you, I want to make use of what my desktop environment can do. Window managers always feel like I'm crippling functionality to a considerable extend.

@matthieujoly 3 ай бұрын

So the point is that: use whatever you want and like. I'm on I3, with tabs that let me the capability to handle more than a full window per screen, with 4 screens (physical one). This is how I like my environment.

@mfs-ness 3 ай бұрын

You can maximize screen-use in Firefox by stripping the titlebar and frame from the window. Then prevent it from resizing when switched into [F11] fullscreen mode, so that it auto-hides tab and address bars. Bam! - floor-to-ceiling browsing (assuming a big enough screen). There's a KWin shortcut option for toggling the titlebar and frame, and Firefox's fullscreen can be bodged with setting [full-screen-api.ignore-widgets] to true in [about:config]. Moving and resizing can still be done with the mouse when holding Meta.

@theena 3 ай бұрын

Vimium or Taradactyle for Chrome/Firefox almost removes the need for mouse usage while browsing. I can't live with out it. EDIT: Tridactyl. Sorry misspelt it.

@AlanCristoffer 3 ай бұрын

You meant Tridactyl?

@PaulG.x 3 ай бұрын

Taradactyle? or Tridactyle? I can't find an extension called Taradactyle

@PixelHamster 3 ай бұрын

vimium my beloved

@AnalyticMinded 3 ай бұрын

Vimium ftw! He says it's not more efficient than the mouse, but it sometimes is! On occasion the mouse pointer disappears and you have to move the mouse or the trackpad to make it visible, and then drag the pointer to the link, right click, search the menu, etc. With vimium, it's just tap, tap, tap, and done. And it's not hard to search for the hints. For example, the KZfaq icon almost always has the hint DA (at least for me), so typing f + DA is much faster than clicking it with the pointer.

@milli-ns 3 ай бұрын

got here at a good time

@richjamjam 3 ай бұрын

me too!

@fakecubed 2 ай бұрын

Tiling window managers are something that can be extremely useful for very specific workflows for specific jobs. For other workflows and jobs they make no sense at all. It's good to have this information on different ways of using the computer out there, so people know what the options are, but people should never assume that just because some way works for them and the things they use their computers for, it would also work for anyone else. Back in the day, when Linux was much more niche, and used predominantly by a certain kind of user, I think tiling window managers made a lot of sense for those workflows and jobs. But Linux is now much more mainstream and people have very diverse use cases. I also LOL every time somebody talks about saving a few kilobytes of RAM here and there, in an era where workstations have 128 GB of the stuff.

@gregholloway2656 3 ай бұрын

Good video, Nick. I use i3 on an old laptop with a limited screen (1024x768). It’s nice to not have to use the touchpad to switch desktops and launch apps. I agree with you though that tiling wms are not for every use case.

@EmrysImmortal 3 ай бұрын

KDE/Plasma offers tiling as an option. I don't use it, but it's nice to see it's available.

@starsetknight 3 ай бұрын

I needa see if there's a way to make it dynamically tile without a plugin, and if not find a plugin that's any good. I love KDE but I just can't use a floating wm anymore.

@BenderdickCumbersnatch 3 ай бұрын

Automatic tiling window managers are for the kind of person that says "You know what? Please make all my windows too big and too small at the same time, oh and please make them move around randomly and change size whenever I open or close something. Thanks!" 🤤

@TomJacobW 3 ай бұрын

you are right, but the same bad-faith insults (with different issues) can easily be flung at the exact opposite side, so… 🤷‍♂️🤡

@chocolate_squiggle 8 күн бұрын

Agreed. Over the years I've been aware of tiling managers, I think I even tried one many many years ago. I knew I didn't really go deeply into or give it a fair shake so all these years I've thought maybe I was missing out. Finally today I watched another video on them and was thoroughly unimpressed, mostly for the same reasons as you. This business about 'hands not having to leave the keyboard' keeps coming up but I mostly navigate my Cinnamon desktop by keyboard anyway. Why do I need a tiling manager to do that? I open most apps by keyboard, I make extensive use of ALT-TAB and CTRL-TAB, adding SHIFT reverses the direction, I change virtual desktops and drag apps to different virtual desktops using keyboard, I snap windows into corners or half-screens as you showed using my keyboard, and like you I'm currently stuck on a laptop so I don't really want more than say 4 apps on screen at once - thought I don't recall ever using more even with large monitors in my last living situation. I minimise, maximise with keyboard. If I REALLY wanted to I can resize and move windows with the keyboard, but at that point it's just quicker to grab the mouse. Even then one hand stays on the keyboard - need that ALT key while dragging a window (quicker than dragging by title-bar). A double-click on the title bar can be quicker than aiming for the Maximise/Restore button, Alt-Space N is quicker than aiming for the minimise button, Windows-UP (sometimes needed twice) is good quick maximise or traditionally it's ALT-Space X. CTRL-W to close tabs, ALT-F4 or CRTL-Q to close apps, setup an "x=exit" alias to quit out of terminals quickly (or just use CTRL-D). Almost any window management task I can think of can ALREADY be done super fast with a keyboard in a regular full desktop environment - AND THEN I still have the OPTION of using a mouse as well. I get that not everyone is as well versed in navigating a gui with keyboard, but that's not different to having to learn tiling window manager commands. Watching the other video, it looked similar to using tmux to split & resize panes - there's certainly a learning curve with all that as well (and if your windows are all terminal based then just use tmux and you'll have that tiling flexibility right there). I see zero reason to ever think about tiling managers again unless I want to install a gui on a lightweight VPS or something. Thanks for your video.

@christopherr8441 3 ай бұрын

Imagine a mouse controlled by where you’re looking, that would be the ultimate productivity device. No need to remove your hands from the keyboard ever again.

@davidboeger6766 3 ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure that exists. There are eye tracking devices marketed for gamers because games can integrate with them to add somewhat VR/AR-like features, but I believe that their default operation on something like the Windows desktop is to act as a pointer device like a mouse. There might be similar devices marketed to people with disabilities for accessibility purposes, though I've never looked. I doubt they're really as good as a mouse in practice. VR headset applications sometimes use head tracking for pointing purposes, but it's generally for very coarsely-grained gestures, with separate handheld controllers being used for more precise pointing needs. I'd be curious to see how the Apple Vision Pro does it since I think it's designed to be used without a mouse, but for $3,500, it's not even worth my time investigating. For head/eye tracking to really be viable as a mouse substitute, I think desktop environments would need to be radically redesigned with support for new gestures, perhaps Tinder-style swiping to replace the tiny adjacent minimize and maximize buttons, for example.

@BlackSpineHorror 3 ай бұрын

"Ah. The keyboard. How quaint." -Scotty.

@ironfist7789 3 ай бұрын

hehe, he was really good with the keyboard too once he went to it

@kurushimee 3 ай бұрын

I don't _need_ tiling window managers, if anything they're harmful to my productivity sometimes (cuz I keep messing with them instead), but I just _want_ them. Tbh, it's just the reason I use Linux - to make it feel truly mine (and pretty at that), and tiling WMs are most flexible for this

@GeckoEidechse 3 ай бұрын

Great video as usual :D 4:18 just a heads-up that when showing moving windows etc it might be advisable to not use a blurred version of the video to fill the gaps in the 16:9 aspect ratio as the additional movement feels a bit distracting. But maybe that's just me. Thought I'd let you know nevertheless

@anghDescartes 2 ай бұрын

I went to test the Hyprland for a very simple reason - 10 bit image support. Wanted to see if that really works and if that affect image quality. I really wasn't thinking much about the tiling, but I kinda decided to test it anyway. And yeah, I was absolutely blown away with the quality of that stuff. First of all, 10 bits image really is visible in certain use cases. Games looks more crispy and performance is excellent. Plus it supports VRR, which is fun. As for the tiling - there is some learning curve to remember the shortcuts, but it very quickly becomes standard way. In general, it is really nice visualy, very light, quick and easy to use wm. I do not know how long will I stay with it, but after a week of playing around I am delighted. As well, I do not really agree with some arguments in the video - consistency of hyprland is quite solid, and if I use only 2-3 windows why should I have a huge WM like Gnome or KDE running in background for no reason? I am a noob and I find tiling managers very appealing, especially for work, but with this bit better image it is even nicer for gaming as well.

@wpipka 3 ай бұрын

I tried them once a few years ago but it's more trouble than it's worth. Also some programs don't play all that nice with them. And in the end you spend more time configuring it than actually using it.

@ManjaroBlack 3 ай бұрын

Summary: “When you care more about aesthetics and less about efficiency, why bother with tiling window managers! Just do things slower and prettier and be like me!” -Linux Experiment”

@JasonEspin 10 күн бұрын

Not sure you can really argue in favour of the efficiency of a tiling window manager. At least not when you start with one. I'm a software engineer, and have been working in the field since 2010. I've used Linux off and on as a daily driver but mainly use windows as I develop in C#. I do however use Linux daily for servers etc (which is what it's best at). I tried for a day to setup tiling window managers properly in arch Linux because it was "so hot right now" and encountered nothing but issues. If you have some work to do, it's completely inefficient to start using a tiling window manager Vs something you already know. The efficiency comes over time but most of the time your initial weeks and months with a tiling window manager is going to make you a hell of a lot less efficient and a lot more stressed out.

@ManjaroBlack 10 күн бұрын

@@JasonEspin Initially, when learning something new you are less efficient. The learning curve determines the cost of learning. The efficiency gained once proficient determines the time it takes to break even. After that time, learning + break even, you are now saving time and benefitting. Honestly, the learning curve for tiling window managers is low. The default configuration is a few simple keyboard shortcuts. A reference can be printed out or placed on the desktop background. So let’s say a programmer like you who is familiar with common shortcuts starts learning the default configuration of a tiling window manager. You make a plan, print out the shortcuts reference, and install the program. Now you open a window and it maximizes. You open another and it splits. You don’t like the proportion, so you look at your reference and adjust the split. You open another window and it splits again. You look at your reference and move a window. All of these operations, referencing the keyboard command and executing it, when compared to the manual configuration of windows is not much different. After just a single day of operating with these shortcuts most people will memorize the simple commands and execute them without reference. This scenario isn’t exactly how it would go. Most of the time when you open a window in a tiling window manager your screen real estate is optimized automatically and nothing else is needed, saving time immediately without learning anything. So to counter your point, yes I can argue in favor of the efficiency of a tiling window manager. Familiarity is not often, and if it is then not for long, a good argument against change. An unwilling to grow because it makes you uncomfortable will leave you in the dust.

@daniilboiko 3 ай бұрын

Using vim-like extensions in browsers can give you a really nice mouseless experience btw. To follow any link or press a button you just type F and one-two letters more to choose exact one. It’s super easy & fast when your hand on the keyboard already.

@HomelessShoe 3 ай бұрын

With a tiling window manager, life's a song, Efficiency and workflow, they will prolong. No more need to resize or move windows by hand, With keyboard shortcuts, you'll swiftly command.

@jirivegner3711 3 ай бұрын

DEs have shortcuts too :)

@ruslan_riazantsev 3 ай бұрын

In my very specific case I simply cannot (or should not, to be pedantic) use tiling window managers with my setup. I have an OLED TV as a main (and the only for now) display, so in order to reduce burn-in effect I use slideshow for wallpapers, I almost never maximize windows and I also move them a little from time to time. I also made most of UI elements transparent using extensions, and use auto-hide dock and top panel (top bar). My workflow is mostly mouse-driven too, but I have some useful shortcuts as well. I know this setup might suck in productivity, but it's perfect for content consumption, so everybody has their own use cases and prefrences.

@laurencefraser 3 ай бұрын

half the selling point of LCD was getting rid of screenburn. The fact that so much is made of OLED when in most use cases it's utterly irrelvant while also Bringing Back Screenburn (even if it's not Quite as bad as it was on CRT) just seems crazy to me. I mean, there are obviously use cases where OLED is absolutely the correct choice, but it really does seem like 'PCs used for anything other than action games and watching movies' and 'tvs not in a full actual home theater'* are not part of that catagory. VR, or handheld game consoles? sure, OLED makes sense for those, the benefits actually make a massive difference and the downsides are either mitigated or irrelivant. Regular PC usage? not so much! *and I mean a Proper home theater, not a regular living room with a TV that's too big for the space, a couple of 'set top' (nevermind mind that it's physically impossible for them to actually sit on top of the tv set any more) boxes and a sound system that you paid Way too much for and gives little to no actual benefit over a pair of decent stero speakers plugged directly into the TV)

@wertigon 3 ай бұрын

I like Tiling VMs when I need to keep track on several things at once. When I am developing I might have one window that shows the UI I am working on right now, one window that runs a debug terminal, one window that shows documentation and one window that plays music. Having all of this overview at a glance is just awesome, but it is a niche use case and for my use case Gnome with two 1440p screens and dual columns is simply enough screen space, period. The only thing left on my wishlist is that Gnome treats each physical screen as a virtual desktop, like i3 does it.

@lePirateMan 3 ай бұрын

I use spectrwm on my laptop and the main feature I use is workspaces. Whenever I open an application I send it to a workspace with alt+shift+ and can switch to it at any time with alt+ instead of having to spam alt+tab 5 times

@oscs4556 Ай бұрын

Funny, this is how I use kde plasma, but my shortcut is ctrl + number. macOS uses control (^)+ number for the same shortcuts.