Harpies = blackbeard and the world government

He had a nickname before of Strong Belwas who was introduced in the late Dany in the second book

Uhh Strong Belwas is NOT selmy. He’s an entirely different character- who used to fight in the slave pits. Are you thinking of Arstan or did you not read the books?

Barristan Selmy = cake slicer

🔥🔥🔥

Well said.

her story is so dumb which is why i can't take that portion of robert's rebellion seriously. unfortunately, many think her love story is a shining altar to beheld when in reality they caused so much suffering. imagine my disgust.

To be fair we don’t know the whole story yet. Was Rhaegar’s marriage to Ellia tragic? Did he actually kidnap Lyanna? I kinda think Ellia and Rhaegar had an understanding and Lyanna did too. Rhaegar probably probably followed in the footsteps of Aegon The Conquerer and practiced polygamy. Robert on the other hand was just a straight up scumbag. He was essentially a man whore till his dying day. I don’t a marriage to Lyanna would have changed that. He had Cersei Lannister as his wife. Who by all accounts was the most beautiful woman in the kingdom and she actually loved him at first. But he was such a dick to her that he turned her into a spiteful woman. He would’ve done the same to Lyanna.

Miguel Sandoval, if they had an understanding, then it was a stupid plan or both Rhargar and Ellia were oblivious to what would happen. If we went by your theory, first off, why would Ellia stay on Dragonstone instead of going back to Dorne? Why not inform her brother? Her closest “ally” and friend, the only person she could actually trust Cersei is a horrible person so her beauty means jack to people with some level of perception or who were madly in love with someone else (Robert). Cersei was always spiteful. Dont kid yourself that her deamonor and actions were Robert’s fault. Last I checked, Tywin arranged the marriage and Tyrion “killed” her mother. We do not know if Robert would act differently with a woman he actually loved. And every man whoring, you are speaking of 99% of men in Westeros. Ned Stark is an exception to the rule, not the other way around. And unlike Sam, Ned was attractive to a degree. So you have incel vs someone who iss just shy and has honor.

Lyanna wanted her husband to be loyal to her. Elia was basically forced on Rhaegar. I'm not excusing his behavior. Elia was treated horribly. And her end was the fault in part of her husband.

Never liked Lyanna with how much of a hypocrite she was.

Road 35 nobody questions how selfish their decisions were either. “Rhaegar didn’t rape Lyanna, they were in love. Isn’t that nice? Rhaegar left his wife and kids, who ended up getting murdered, and Lyanna left her betrothed Robert” 🤷🏻‍♂️

Willcc19 - stupid fools if you ask me

johanna thalhofer selfish and stupid

johanna thalhofer they didn’t even consider the consequences of not revealing their love

Yup. Rhaegar's an ass. But I gotta say, Lyanna was like 14. She probably didn't know any better. (Think book 1/season 1 Sansa) I don't think I can lay the blame on a girl just barely in her teens. Rather, the blame goes to the grown ass man who abandoned his wife and kids AND his duty to the realm's peace.

Jason Todd still, a 14 year old girl should at-least be smart enough to tell somebody about their love. Maybe could’ve saved Rhaegars life, and possibly ended the war.

@@Lord_Of_Night nopeee even at 14 I wouldn't fall for a guy with kids and a wife nor would I be able to keep it a secret. She was selfish. Complained about how Robert can't keep to one bed but then decides to run off with a married man.

@@akshayapradeep9793 You were more knowledgeable than Lyanna. Not all children are equally intelligent. Lyanna did not have the education that you have. She grew up in a totally different world. Not to mention, at that age, her brain wasn't even fully developed yet. I just prefer blaming the adult instead of the child. It was Rhaegar's decision to manipulate a little girl and he got her killed. Just like it was his decision to abandon Elia and their children to the Mad King's clutches.

@@Lord_Of_Night I think we can agree to disagree on this one. Of course I think rhaegar was the worst person in this situation but Lyanna isn't far behind in my opinion. She made a foolish decision and I believe she knew it was a foolish decision. Otherwise she wouldn't have kept it a secret. Nor would she have run off with him. Her desires won over her moral conscience. And in the end cost countless lives. Also lyanna was quite intelligent for her time and considering how early on Mothers teach their kids about these things. She must know about a women's position and her duty. She said she didnt want Robert because he would cheat, she understood the concept of cheating and how it would feel for her if Robert did it so I'm more than certain she understood the Elia - Rhaegar situation and how wrongly she acted.

You're lucky to see such fans. All I'm seeing so far are rabid shippers. I just pretend they don't exist for the sake of my mental health.

Rheagar sent to of his most powerful kings guard to defend his mistress, while his wife and kids waS left unguarded think about that

@@adw6894 ikr that was so fucked up :/ And if the show is actually right and Jon's "real name" is supposed to be Aegon, wtf is that supposed to mean? Was Rhaegar discarding Ellia and their trueborn kids and trying to start over with his "the dragon must have 3 heads" shit with Lyanna? Because I cannot imagine why he would name his new kid Aegon when he already had a kid named Aegon. And no matter what what happening if had an understanding with Ellia or not, if he knew the Mad King was paranoid thinking he was plotting to overthrow him and Rhaegar knew he wouldn't be around to protect them, the first thing he should have done was send Ellia, Rhaenys and Aegon to Dorne where they'd be the safest, especially if he knew a war could ensue. He literally left his wife and their two kids to be hostage of a mad man while he ran with a teenager, Rhaegar is such a piece of shit.

@@shikenkanade pretend we didn't see any of those fuckers

@@sorensorensen9567 Your comment is really interesting and sent me on a spiralling google search to figure out why Rhaegar named both his sons Aegon. I no longer think he did. One person said that Rhaegar would have already been dead by the time Lyanna gave birth, and that she herself named the baby. They were speculating that Rhaegar might even have been expecting a baby girl to name Visenya, completing the 3 headed dragon and naming them after the original 3 Targaryens landing in Westeros. To me this makes more sense. It doesn't explain why he left his family in the first place though, and I guess it just comes down to an unhappy arranged marriage.

Violet Ice Rhaegar always showed love to everyone he definitely love her he wanted a 3 child and decided fell in love with Lyanna and we all know what happen next

@Violet Ice Yeah, I'm fully supportive of the theory that Elia and Rhaegar discussed the prophecy, the finding of another young woman (highborn or not; I don't think it would have mattered had Rhaegar laid eyes on a young tavern maid had he thought she could be the "one"), and needing the "Third head of the Dragon". I believe Elia, however much she really believed of the prophecy (and look, with Rhaegar being as charismatic, intense and learned as he was, she could very well have believed the prophecy...OR, she could have thought it was just another one of Rhaegar's weird f*cking ideas, but being so fond of him, and understanding her fragile health and the unlikelihood of her giving him another child, or even living very long, went along with it, for him) would have been far more okay with it all than many people think. She *was* Dornish. Having said all this, I highly doubt she knew (or wanted, obviously) she was going to die and have her children "die" as they did. I feel wholeheartedly sorry for her and what happened, and she definitely did not deserve it. If I were her, I would have been majorly pissed at the turn of events, and at Rhaegar himself for how it all unfolded, but...she was not just a "wallflower" in this whole affair. She knew.

@@SaltoDaKid He didn't love Lyanna he was just using her as a means to an end. Rhaegar only cared about completing the prophecy of the three headed dragon

It shoulda been Cersei

@@Betroid we cant fucking see her death right

Alty Yeah, that’s what made his character so admirable. He was very loyal and loving.

He let down his guard other wise he might have won.

He could have killed the mountain , he wasted time .

@@tasneemedwards2574 he wanted the mountain to confess in front of everyone because their the story that written by a maester from the citadel who a Lannister supporter and a diehard fan of Tywin that spread conspiracies and rumor that it was ELIA that kills her children or that know one knows who kill her and the children. The mountain outright confess when he was killing oberyn in front of the court, the city, and especially all those noblemen from dorne he brought to the wedding witness and heard what he said making the Lannister worst.

Oberyn loved his sister, but not as much Jamie Lannister loved his sister.....

Damn, spot on! Lol

Rhaegar is fucking stupid. He wanted the "The dragon must have 3 heads" prophecy so bad but he got 2 of his children dead. Well in the books it's hinted that Elia's son might be alive. But still, Rhaegar is an idiot for that.

I agree

Sacrifice. One can do that their entire life but the moment, anyone thinks about themselves, it becomes a crime.

I think what your thinking of is Narcissism. When someone wants to be viewed as the perfect human, but is actually just a selfish piece of crap who only thinks about what benefits them and to hell with everyone else.

Ikr The Guy Was Married And 24 Coming After A 16 Yro Girl. That Ain't Right

@@ajangmabior4606 She was 13 or 14 at best when he crowned her.

Your sister deserved better.

R+L fans are most likely just some naive teenage girls who see R+L as a handsome prince and beautiful maiden forbidden love story. Even though I'm a Targaryen supporter but still, Rhaegar really sucks. A cheater whose affair starts a war and has thousands of people killed, including his wife and children and forcing his siblings live in a life of exile in fear of assassins. Very beautiful indeed.

@@MasterZagato Thanks for acknowledging it. There are still plenty of great Targaryens (Aegon V, Jaehaerys, Daeron, Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Aegon V etc.). Rhaegar and Aerys boroughs about the destruction of their House.

It is implied that Rhaegor told Jamie to protect his wife and chidren but Jamie after killing his King was filled with madness that he was just sitting there in the iron throne with king's blood and wasn't able to save Elia and her children. and Verys says something about Elia calling out for someone's name which we can assume is probably jamie's when the mountain entered the room

@@altirius One of the reasons why the Martells hated the Lannisters

@Drift Alfs Still, taking three of the best fighters to protect his mistress and leaving one greenboy to protect his lawful wife and children, that is just madness.

I somehow doubt they would have been able to follow that command to protect Elia if they were stationed in capital Kingsguard is not what it was meant in the beginning when Visenya made it When she made the order most important thing she looked for was talent and loyalty to House Targaryen it didn't matter if you were a bastard or follower of Old Gods as long as you fit those two criteria she also personally trained them and during those times those in Kingsguard would have executed their own families without hesitation if House Targaryen given the command with how loyal they were and it was going that way untill Dance of Dragons when they started participating in politics they were meant to protect every member even from each other even it it meant death for them but by the time of Aerys they only protected those that wear the crown and sit on Iron Throne Thus Aerys would have dismissed Rhaegar's command the moment they set foot in capital because he thought that Rhaegar wants to overthrow him which i think the Tourney at Harrenhal was about i think Rhaegar had a chance there for Great Council but what is suspicious is why did Aerys go there when he never gave a shit about Tourney's before his madness he was like Rhaegar a scholar and after what happened with Darklyn's he never left Red Keep why then suddenly leave all the way to Riverlands my suspicion is on Varys i think he even fed him smaller doses of Basilisk Blood during and after the capture i don't think its coincidence that Lord Darklyn's wife is also from Three Daughters as Varys then there are Maesters who i think are responsible for so many miscarriages how come it was low during Aegon the Unworthy i doubt it's punishment of the Seven bringing strife to House Targaryen as i doubt they even exist Then there is why Elia and her children were still at capital when Aerys evacuated Rhaella and Viserys i think she was there as a hostage not only as a threat to Dorne but also Rhaegar who he thought was going to betray him and when the word came of his death mourned him and snaped even more by wanting to burn the Kings Landing with wildfire i get this feeling that all of this was staged and that there is conspiracy and no matter how much Varys hates magic he must have got some benefits during that blood ritual I also think it was Baelish who spread rumors about Lyanna's kidnapping and rape to create the chaos as he loves to say "Chaos is the ladder" and as a revenge to Brandon who he challenged for Catelyn's hand and got heavily wounded for it and humiliated by Cat's constant rejection

@@user-kc9yn8my7q I definitely think Littlefinger spreader the rumor that Lyanna was kidnap /or told Brandon that Lyanna was kidnap.

He is one of the best IMO actors in that show. He was perfect. Looks may not have been spot on but he can't help costume design. Acting was perfect.

I hate when an analysis of ASOIAF is filled with people who only grasp the story by the show.

@@factbeaglesarebest you do realise you can enjoy the books but also like the acting in the show right? Don't be so elitist

And yet many fans were upset at him for being "stubborn" and not killing the Mountain directly, because all that mattered to them was Tyrion's safety. Don't get me wrong, I also wanted Tyrion alive and in part I was sensing something bad was about to happen to Oberyn but specially as a sibling myself, I understand his suffering, and wish more people would emphatize for his situation.

But he didn’t he should have just killed the mountain and kept it moving he wanna scream and do extra shit knowing he fighting a grisly bear and just wounded him

I Do disagree. The Greyjoy storyline is one of MJ favorites from the whole show. I learned at age six that television/film adaptations are different. My mama used to read sleeping beauty to me almost every night out of this old fairytale book she had. The animated version was completely different from the real story.

Have you read the books though? I'm not sure how anyone could read book Euron (especially in light of the chapters read by George from WoW) and be happy with what we got in the show. Same with omitting Victarion and Damphair. Don't get me wrong I actually think that the show especially in the earlier seasons did things differently that I even liked more than the books, but these two instances were definitely not some of those cases...

It was very noticeable that GRRM stopped being involved in the scripts from season 5

Euron and daario naharris should totally hang out in the show they are both so bland

MBogdos96 to be fair, there isn’t much that the show didn’t butcher.

Thank you! I'm sick of people constantly trying to justify what Lyanna and Rhaegar did, Rhaegar was mad and no one can change my mind. He was mad and selfish and thrusted that awful fate on his children and wife because he had to have another child because of some ridiculous prophecy. Everyone looks down on characters being promiscuous and praise Ned for his loyalty but see no problem with what Rhaegar did. Elia deserved better. Lyanna is a selfish and hypocritical bitch, claiming she won't have Robert for him not staying to one bed but she runs off with someone else's husband. She already knew running off with Rhaegar would cause problems considering how angry the eldest brother was when Rhaegar proclaimed her queen of love and beauty. She knew what she was doing. And Rhaegar was just as mad as his father, only he didn't have the bloodlust. I'm sick of people thinking they're perfect and justified, but their selfishness caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people including their family. I hate D&D for chalking them up to some perfect Disney fairytale and that love prevails over all, and I hate it even more that people just take it at face value. They're not good people.

@@fawnieee I agree with you. Some will say that Rhaegar was the greatest king that never was. WRONG! We could look into modern monarchy(British) that even they say that LOVE IS THE DEATH OF DUTY. You will be the king, in the means that your duty is to your people not love, lust, war or the prophecy which may not even stem from Rhaegar's line(really though, it clearly states that the prophecy would be from Aerys II and Rhaella's line, not Rhaegar's. Viserys was already born before the war and he didn't even consider that his brother might be the PTWP). And yet, he tore the whole of Westeros apart and erased his dynasty in the plights of fancy.

Preach !!!

@@fawnieee Also, I think Ned Stark turned a blind eye on honour when it came to his sister and her actions. Whilst, the Former Ruling Princess of Dorne exiled her own son for sleeping with a paramour. Now tell me which one is more honourable?

You have some good points not all Dornishs people are lewd and promiscuous. The point is that their marriage was based friendship and respect, I believe that Rhaegar would have explain that he wanted a third child and that if the succession order still stand that their son Aegon will be sitting on the throne. Not the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna. ps if Rhaegar did marry Lyanna and keep Elia Martell as wives there be NOOOO!!! need for a rebellion. (The child will be a TRUE BORN also ) The point is Elia's children were born first there MIGHT be an argument if any thing happen to Aegon if they would allow Rhanya the girl would put on thorne. or the son? of Lyanna and Rhaegar?

Yes. The show was very biased. Eventhough Arianne Martell was a POV

The show is crap

Im not even a book reader and I know how shit it was.

i agree he was a terrible father and even a worse husband

Reagar was some kind of psycho

Tbh, a lot of people seem to despise Rhaegar. I barely saw anyone who actually liked Rhaegar. Why would they do that anyway? From all the information we got, he was the reason for Roberts Rebellion. He couldn't keep it in his pants, although he was married and had kids, because he "loved" her. As Walder Frey said in the show, Rhaegar betrayed his wife for a pretty face with firm tits and a tight fit. Countless people had to die, because Rhaegar was a horny cheater, and Lyanna a lustful slut with no respect for the sacred matrimony.

yep Martin better find really good reason for this in future books, otherwise Raegar will be forever remebered as asshole who drown country in blood and made his House near extinct.

@@Alvaro89Rus It seems pretty clear to me that he only seduced Lyanna because she fit his version of the Ice and Fire prophecy. He probably expected her child to be a daughter to fit the theme of Three Heads Of Dragon along with Rheanys, Aegon and Visenya. Lyanna made it easy for him. She was a sheltered highborn teenager who was unhappy about her engagement to Robert and thus comes Rheagar sweeping of her feet and promising to give her the freedom she thought she wouldn't get with Robert.

❤

He is a simp

That’s a theory. Its not really backed up by the story, of course. It’s implied that she didn’t love him, but Robert was similar to her brother and she got along well with Brandon. He was also a long time friend of the family. It’s still incredibly selfish, stupid and irresponsible and Robert was 100% justified in burying his warhammer in Rhaegars chest.

@@MusaMansu They were both in arranged marriages, in a sexist world where fierce women like Arya Stark & Lyanna Mormont would be asked to submit to bloodthirsty savages like Robert Baratheon. Generally, both romanticism and modern standards would favor Lyanna & Rhaegar's relationship, while only mindless obedience could justify keeping the betrothals as they'd been arranged.

@@horsegirlb7120 1) It’s not about sexism. Men have to get arranged marriages too. 2) Roberts not a bloodthirsty savage. He literally did nothing wrong before the arebellion. 3) Modern standards would consider Lyanna a home wrecker and Rhaegar a rapist that abandoned his wife and kids for a 14 year old child. Do we really want to look at this from a modern lense?

@@MusaMansu It's not _always_ about sexism, but in this case we're talking about a strong woman and a stupid man. Robert himself admits that Jon Arryn tried to discipline & guide him to be a good & wise person, but all he wanted to do was fight & fuck. Call it what you want.

@@horsegirlb7120 He couldn’t have been that stupid. He won almost every battle that he fought and the only one he lost was indecisive, because he retreated in good order. He seemed to be an able commander, charismatic, sociable and capable of winning people over to his cause. He also delivered a crushing defeat to Rhaegar Targaryen at the Trident even though his forces were outnumbered and battle weary, while Rhaegars were fresh. Stannis mentions Robert winning battles at odds worse than 5 to 1. Surely, you’d admit that to be a successful general, you generally need to be intelligent. Right?

Also I get not wanting to be forced to marry someone, but Robert had one bastard at that time as a young unmarried man in the Vale, she says Robert will never keep to one bed, and yet she runs off with a married man with a wife and two children. Lyanna is a hypocrite plain and simple. What she did is far worse than Robert having one bastard whilst being unmarried.

@@temptationofmemories There is theory that Lyanna send a letter to her to explain everything, but the Maestor at there hold the letter from the Lord of Winterfell he and the Citadel wanted the Mad King Out!!!

Not to mention that assuming Elia would be okay with it is stereotyping Dornish people. Not every Dornish person would have the exact same personality.

@@Lord_Of_Night exactly for all we know Elia was super against this and hated Lyanna but we'll never know unless someone says so in the book or we get a Robert's Rebellion prequel with Elia's POV

I don't believe the idea Elia was okay with that. Not all Dornish people are into open relationships. Elia doesn't appear to have been anything like sex mad Oberyn even though he cherished his sister a lot.

The annulment was a joke and ps just because that a man setside his wife it doesn't means that he could setside his children also. They never address this the show version, I believe if the children were still alive that would be STILL in the line of succession.

@@sophiawilson8696 PERIODT people don't talk about this enough! Why would he make his son Aegon a bastard by annulling his marriage to Elia when the sole reason he ran away with Lyanna was to have "three heads of the dragon" like it makes ZERO sense, even from Rhaegar's fucked up perspective.

I thought of Rhaegar and Lyanna as a hopeless romantic people. I mean he's a bard prince who likes stories and prophecies...throughout history many people do stupid things for love. The famous love story Romeo and Juliet commit suicides because of misunderstandings. It's stupid but so human that many people love it, so much so it turned cliche because authors wrote so many variations of it. But you get the gist, people are not perfect. One mistake is not the whole of a person. And I'm kind of bias because I'm obsessed with the lives of people real or fictional. I think stupid mistakes are what makes a character unique and their reactions towards the consequences of their decisions make them great or break them... that's the moment whether they became lovable or hateable or boring 😁

​@@SnowSNS11 Rhaegar didn't love Lyanna, he only did his duty thinking he was "the chosen one". He wanted a fertile woman to bear the "third head of the dragon". He went to the tourney looking for the youngest maid aka Lyanna (She was 15 and he was 24, nearly 10 years older than her). A girl like her age doesn't think twice, so basically he manipulated her and put his seed inside her. That's why in her last moments of life, she realized how wrong were her actions. Alone with her crown of roses stained with blood and she didn't even know her father and brother were dead because no one told her so she wouldn't escape from the tower. That isn't love.

@@ismael3259 a bit like sansa with Joffrey

And your two children!

he is a targaryen prince so he get a pass

Bict

​@@11more40 and Robert killed the Targaryen prince, so he gets a pass as well. Oh, he also gets a crown.

And Oberyn got it. He got the confessions. He even discovered how exactly Elia was killed. The Mountain was so kind to showing it exactly on the Oberyn's eyes!

Agreed but I still think the actor did a good job with the material he was given

To this day Oberyn (Pedro Pascal) is the character I remember. If there's anyone that should could a prequel miniseries its him.

The actor whom played Doran was a very strong actor, he play it well with the little material he got audience wanted more but D+D had different ideas. I believe it more to plot with Doran but with uproar of the Sand Snakes it cut short.

Speaking of characters. Euron's portrayal in the show is laughable compared to the books.

I think They tried too hard to emphasize that Doran was older than Oberyn. Looked old enough to be his dad

Obsessed over a prophecy

"B-b-but Rhaegar LOVED LYANNA THATS WHY!!" No Rhaegar was mad and wanted to fill a ridiculous prophecy. And Lyanna was selfish and stupid enough to go through with it. I'm sick of this Disney pro romance D&D gave us and people lap it up. Rhaegar was mad and Lyanna was a selfish hypocrite. No one can convince me otherwise.

@@fawnieee hear hear! exactlyyy

@@fawnieee Rhaegar's an asshole, no doubt, but let's not blame a 14-year old girl. Lyanna was naive, but she probably didn't know any better (think book/season 1 Sansa) and got manipulated by an older man.

@@fawnieee why does everyone call it a ridiculous prophecy? There is ample evidence that rhaegar was right about the prophecy and that Jon is of a major importance against the others, you can call rhaegar a dick if you want but he was probably right about the prophecy

Tywin does whats needex

He had nothing to do with it... Categorically

that's not true he did order the mountain to kill the children not Elia but that's not any better in the books he even says he didn't know he needed to be specific.

@@Marina-db7ou You are right course but would Dorne given them if they didn't kill Elia Martell?. The fact is that two children are dead and they were half Dormish.

Tywin is a good character but the children didn't need to die just to secure Roberts throne. Even if the mountain didn't kill Ellia she would want revenge for her children and so would Dorne. Those kids were half Martell and they weren't to blame for Rhaegar's stupidity.

That speaks volumes about his character

Sounds like he did it on purpose. Like he wanted them to die.

D&D stupid writing . Aegon(elia's son) is probably alive in the books and nicknamed as young griiff and since they did not include him in the show they gave jon his name

@@chaimae3652 then again it's just probably, there are many things that young griff could be.

@@chaimae3652 i dont think hes a targeryan

Most likely if the books ever get done, Jon's Targ name will either be Aemon or Jaeherys.

Keep in mind that after him Rhaella had many miscarriages and many of the children died at infancy, so he couldn't be very sure when Viserys was born and Dany was born very late.

Even, Aegon II had bastards, but he actually cared for Haelena and his trueborn kids.

The Mountain is honest. And have always been.

This stuff is based on reality, usurpers to the throne in the past always just wipe out the previous family

Lyna bict rhaegar bastard, the perfect married couple

Aerys kept her and her children captive, don't forget that after Rhaegar and Elia married they lived on Dragonstone exactly because of his father, but unfortunately they couldn't stay there forever

man....

YOU CAN FORGIVE HIM FOR CHEATING???? man... are u ok Rhaegar Targaryen is a RAT, selfish, and pedophile. His obsession with the prophecy doesn't justified for what he did. Lyanna Stark is a CHILD and Rhaegar is a grown ass man with a wife and 2 children. HE CHEATS ON HIS WIFE AND ABANDONED THEIR KIDS.

@@ara-vf2gz B Peoples just said that Rhaegar what he did because of the prophecy. Say what you will that he may have just made it up but it'd be a huge coincidence that he was actually right. The Others are coming. What's the point of morality if the alternative is the doom of the world?

@@ara-vf2gz I am very ok, thank you for asking. I assume that the Rhaegar described in the books would have told Elia about the prophecy and not simply run off with Lyanna hence the "give him the benefit of the doubt" comment. I believe his intentions were honest. However, his shaming her at the tourney was in no way excusable. So, we have different interpretations of some of the book's unstated events.

@@jkasdhn99 Except Rhaegar wasn't sure that the doom of the world was coming. The only major hints we got are from a decade and a half after he died. The fact that he might have been correct is only proven to the audience years later. He didn't know for sure that the world was being threatened and basically caused all this chaos on a hunch, out of something he read in a book.

because Ned Stark raised him, he is a Stark with Tageron blood.

Good thing Jon is nothing like his idiotic parents.

​@@blor3664 He's a stark too. It's like Yondu saying, *Rhaegar might have been your father, boy, but he wasn't your daddy.*

Have you seen the order of the green hand?

Check out In Deep Geek and Secrets Of The Citadel. You won’t regret it. :)

I agree I love Alt Shift and IdeasOfIceAndFire.

Quinn’s Ideas doesn’t really talk about ASOIAF anymore; his main focus seems to be on Dune these days and who can blame him?

Young Griff is not Targaryen he is black fyre

@@lordbloodraven9159 it’s not confirm yet

Yes. But you got to think of the times they were based on. Women of their age often turned a blind eye to their husband's affairs and bit their tongues. However, some.did bid their times in real life and got revenge. Elenore of Aquitaine did.

@@v.9964 You think that makes Elia's fate okay? Or that it justifies Rickard Stark and Brandon Stark's deaths? The war that followed? None of what Rhaegar did was okay!

@@Lord_Of_Night you're putting words in their mouths.

The other Aegon was "dead" at the time. And technically it was Lyanna who named him I believe. And in the books that not even a thing yet so who knows

@@ssjdeadpool yeah but the war just ended before stark made it to his sister so I dont think the other one was smashed yet

@@batman-gu7pm yeah...wait what? The other Aegon got smashed in the Sack of Kings Landing which had already happened during the Battle at the Tower of Joy

@@ssjdeadpool oh

Jon-Aegon is TV show invention, Martin will not make Raegar and Lyana "kinda forget" that he already has son of this name.

I refused to believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna were some careless hypocritical twats. From the description of their characters and what people have said about them I don’t want to believe that they just abandoned their lovers for absolutely no reason I want an explanation for this.

They're trying to get one off the ground, I've heard. GRRM really wants it and one of the producers from GOT is trying to put one together.

Well said mate

R+L=J is true anyone denying it is fighting a losing battle at this point.

​@@buddyfats4768 Does anyone still think the show to be canon? The show also said Cold hands is Benjen, but GRRM came out and said in person that they are different entities.

@@whuizz6923 I don't treat anything after season 4 in the show canon. But there is an overwhelming amount of reasons to believe R+L=J will happen in the books, most people who deny it are just contrarians who got bored of R+L=J that are just looking for another answer that is more fun to them

What’s N+A? I know N is Ned so who’s A?

Both.

both and they deserves better

@Fedor Silva rhaella was married to a mad man.aerys loved tywin lannister "s wife.his marriage to his sister rhaella was loveless.aerys would rape her,she used to shout ,Jaime Lannister said after aerys raped her the queen had injuries as though a cat had attacked the queen.both Elia and rhaella suffered but Elia"s death was more gruesome.

Because Of Rhaegars Actions *** The Guy Was Like A Married 24 Yro Coming After A 16 Yro Girl 🤣🤣🤣 That's Pretty Sus

@@ajangmabior4606 Because of both of them.

Why are you only blaming lyanna, rhaegar was the main culprit anyway, both are to be blamed

@@MusaMansu lyna bict raegar bastard, the perfect married couple

Thanks Jules!

Considering that Lyanna was in the ToJ, a place in DORNE, and Dayne was all "My master, right or wrong" in regards to Rhaegar, I can definitely believe it.

irondragonmaiden but seems people also forget the dornish folks didn’t take relationships that serious they are known to bed multiple people at once I can’t see her growing up around that and then being taken aback when her husband beds another

@@ronshaywalker3918 Dornish don't take relationships seriously?! Really? Then Ellaria didn't make a big speech about how Oberyn won't be there for her to hug, talk to, or be with her in old age because he's dead in her speech against the cycle of revenge? Yeah, totes didn't take that relationship seriously! Then Doran wasn't brokenhearted when Mellario left him because she couldn't adapt to the Westerosi custom of sending your kid to grow up as a ward in order to foster political allies? Yeah, that relationship totes wasn't taken seriously! If anything, these are some of the most serious relationships PRECISELY because you don't need a piece of paper saying they are married for their feelings to be real. What they are is PRACTICAL. Marriages are meant to be business mergers wherein a child is part of the merger through having both Houses inherit something. The impractical part about Andal and Northern Westeros is that they expect both parties, or at least the woman, to be faithful and fall in love. The Dornish, on the other hand, are more practical. Marry and have children as the merger and duty demands, sure, but if you don't fall in love, then both sides get to have lovers on the side. That's called being practical, not that they don't care about their real romantic relationships. Hell, if anything, that's why Ellaria and Oberyn weren't married. As a bastard, Ellaria can't inherit or push her family forward politically in a marriage. She's not treated badly like in Andal or Northern Westeros, but she also doesn't have the same power and rights to land/titles as a legitimate noble. This, again, means that the Dornish are PRACTICAL when it comes to marriage and love and sex, three things that are NOT necessarily the same thing. Who you marry isn't who you necessarily love romantically. So, again, while I can see Elia being alright with Lyanna being the UNMARRIED MISTRESS (and that's if she's a huge saint and forgets about how Rhaegar insulted her in public according to HIS culture!), she sure as fuck wouldn't be OK with her marrying Rhaegar and so set to steal HER SON'S inheritance. But yeah, do tell how many other ways L/R fans want to let Lyanna and Rhaegar off the hook for doing Elia dirty.

irondragonmaiden yeah no all that sounds good but they both fucked and fathered/mothered other people kids all of that other stuff sounds pretty

@@ronshaywalker3918 That's a huge stereotype. Not all Dornish people have the exact same personality.

Lords Paramount with exception of House Tyrell are descendants of the kings of their respective regions. The Principality of Dorne was never completely conquered so they kept their titles and styles of Prince/Princess of Dorne.

No, Oberyn honed his skills as a warrior when he was exiled by his own mother because he slept with Lord Yronwood's paramour, resulting to a match with the said lord and his death. He then went on to study at the Citadel, and later on, joined the Second Sons in Essos and even formed his own company. The former princess of Dorne exiled her own son because of his foolishness. The above statement somehow contradicts the argument of "Elia would have been fine with Rhaegar taking on another wife because she's DORNISH". If their own mother can exile her brother, because of rashness and foolishness of only sleeping with a Lord's paramour, then that speaks more than what people perceive Dornish Culture. They may be somewhat called lewd and wanton, but duty to them is Paramount. They would pass on judgement even to their own, for the sake of peace.

@@mariannecuevas5880 Thanks. It's time I read the books. There is such a depth of information in the books that was absent in the shows.

You deserve a standing ovation for this comment, mate. If i have to imagine an afterlife, i like to imagine Rhaegar getting his ass impaled by Oberyn's poisoned spear and his chest broken by Robert's war hammer again, while Elia and her children watch with immense satisfation, and Lyanna getting slapped and called a slut by her father and older brother.

whoa never thought of that naerys also only had 2 children

What Rhaegar did to Elia in Harrenhal was Aegon IV attempted to do to Naerys.

If Rhaegar parallels Aegon the unworthy, and Elia parallels Queen Naerys, then who parallels Aemon the Dragonknight?

​​@@AC_336 No one. This time, there was no Aemon the Dragonknight to defend Elia's honor at Harrenhal.