What book is this from?

@@Ally.Cat.252 Leman Russ: The Great Wolf

@@Cadmus_of_the_Knight_Seekers Thankyou

The quote speaks really well of Russ as well. At the beginning of the heresy Russ is more or less an arrogant blowhard, by the end he's become so much wiser and insightful. He begins like a young "Thor", and grows into a more "Odin" like figure, which I think is very cool.

​@@sarnicholas4053I wanna know what excuses he is gonna use when facing magnus for f*#cking his legion

Facts 😂

Lion El'Jonson is a weird way to spell Vulcan, that's all im saying

The Lion was like “ I’m not locked in here with you, you’re locked in here with ME.”

@@Chris-wn3vrand then he proceeded to mind rape that Khrave into oblivion after he got all the infomations he needed about the Khrave and their intentions/positions/plans. Lion is far above his brothers in so many ways.

I think that's where The Lion said "I am the Emperor's Angel of Darkness"...

The emperor knew whoever was warmaster would eventually fall or at least had a large chance of turning . He didn’t want the dark angels who at the time were one of if not the largest legions with the hexagramoton and vaults of dark age weapons with men of iron . He don’t want that in the side of the traitors

Or simply the Emperor knew that Lion would accept not being named War Master without that having negative effect, as he did, Horus wouldn't.

@@RaimoKangasniemi+ If he knew that putting a "warmaster" in charge would create such a mess (and ruin his dreams) I am not sure that appointing one was a good decision 😅 If he knew just put lorgar the loser so that he can be easily killed or keep the power from terra idk... This doesn't make any sense.

@@GCarbon0197 Appointing a War Master was not a good decision, but Horus who had been on his side the longest and as widely liked by his brothers, would have been pretty hard to pass and it would be only superhuman for him to feel slighted and develop a grudge.

I thought the emperor forsaw that the house heresy and that half his sons would fall to chaos. I also thought he knew when picking horus for Warminster exactly how the chips would fall with each primarch on each side except the Khan?

"Fulgrim"I hear he does weird things to his warriors"

The fact that he knows his own strength and doesn't overreach is one of my favourite parts of the Kahn. Plus obviously his one liners

​@@winstonstowers9121 khan is the only one that has common sense

"A price had to be paid for his inclination to freedom; for skirting along the edges of communication."

The Original Warmaster of the Imperium

Yes, Lion El'Jonson is the prototype for the primarchs, but remember that prototypes are never perfect or the best. Edited to correct a spelling mistake.

Ahh, the prototype. That makes sense and explains all the bugs on launch

​@@mistercmartinNot simply a prototype, but a perfect creation, and probably the best warrior/general overall. His only real problem was his average social skills, which he did compensate for with exceptional military leadership and being a pure force of inspiration for his warriors.

@@mistercmartinAt Lockheed Martin’s our prototype JLTV was 3 million while the more finished were 350k. That 3 million one was a whole lot more advanced.

Loyalty is its own reward! FOR THE LION!!!

For The EMPEROR!

It was one of two returns so far 😂 had a 50/50 chance

@@iangreenwood3870 traders I believe makes 5

@@iangreenwood3870 there's 5 who is better. I count the traitors

maaaaan, don't you know the entire Yoda species serve the Lion and ONLY the Lion?! Because he IS the best Primarch!

... if its pitch black the invisibility doesnt factor in

@@davidburnett5049 The Primarchs have better vision in the dark. So Konrad being able to turn invisible would probably trick all of the other Primarchs.

@@BM-wf9uf i havent read the scene. If there is no light there can be no traditional sight. So, idk. But dark would advantagr lion specifically because invisibilty doesnt need darkness. It levels the playing field, as the saying goes.

Have you read sons of the forest yet? If not I seriously recommend. The Lion is back and better than ever, all his strength and ferocity but tempered with age and by the humbling of the Horus heresy. It’s nice to see him return from being a conqueror to being a guardian of humanity.

It certainly would. Question is only, what was the better choice. Devastating the traitors at their home or on Terra. Since him being present on Terra mean, he couldn't have done, what he did. And enabeling Sanguinius to get to Terra, was certainly a good choice.

Tbh if the lion was at terra it would straight up change pertys and horuses plans. Like …. “That’s Big BRO”

@@JD-td6oh it wouldn’t have changed anything. Imperial fists, The blood Angel’s (cause sanguinuis and the black rage) and ultramarines were the main loyalist forces. They were the most important. Replacing them with any legion doesn’t work. Ultramarines created the time constraint. Imperial fists did everything… and the blood angels were the blood angels and they had Sanguinius. Dark Angels were not as and would not be as important even if they were present in place of the blood angels. They wouldn’t work in place of the imperial fists… siege would have been completely lost without them. Lion is not Dorn… no where close. He strategical prowess is not comparable to him in any way. As for the blood angels, they held the loyalists together. Sanguinius was a beacon of hope. Lion could never be that. And the khan? I personally think khan is better than the Lion in this situation. Khan is no less strategically capable and is more trustworthy

@@IOX-x1r brother. The ultramarines wrent at the siege of terra. The question was if the da were at the siege. It wouldve changed alot.

@@JD-td6oh when did I say that they were? I addressed the fact that dark angels and Lion specifically wouldn’t have been a better replacement for blood angels or the imperial fists. Both of this legions were much better suited to defend Terra. Ultramarines weren’t at the siege … yet they were the largest threat to the siege. They created the time constraint. If they arrived, the siege would be a loss. Ultramarines in place of the white scars would definitely be better suited, since the white scars don’t specialize in defense. The dark Angels? Similarly to the scars, defense is not their strong suit and they are VERY difficult to work with. Meaning they would not be better suited then the ultramarines to be at terra in place of the white scars. And I would argue that white scars and the khan would always be better suited to defend Terra then the Lion… since, the Lion is VERY arrogant, secretive and overall difficult to work with. In short, the Lion and his legion being at Terra in place of any of the 3 main legions defending Terra would make the defenses worse.

Sanguinius: -The mightiest and the fastest primearch, as well as possibly the most skilled being in the whole galaxy, capable of delivering blows that would kill primearchs one after the other, while exhausted from the siege, suffering from hundreds of fresh wounds, including a fatal one… and apparently this is Sanguinius holding back. This is all said by Horus at his chaos peak(no more credible source in this context). - Not the greatest strategist, but is certainly up there. Afterall, he was responsible for organizing and commanding the Beta Garmen defense during the siege. Tho he was outsmarted, most primearchs would not have been able to do the same. His foresight also gives him a huge edge in strategy. -He was loved by almost all his brothers. Definitely the most respected and loved primearch. I don’t think there was a single primearch that genuinely hated him. Even Konrad and Angron had respect or at least acknowledgement of him. Konrad literally called him perfect and sought him out across the galaxy just to talk to him, while Angron’s anger and pain was soothed while in the presence of the Angel. -According to Horus, Sanguinius was the FAVORITE son. Even if his relationship with emps wasn’t as involved as other primearchs. But the emps definitely treated Sanguinius with more honesty due to sangi’s foresight. -Had the best relationship with his sons. Definitely the best among his brothers. He loved them all and mourned all their deaths. He was willing to sacrifice himself to the rage fire to cure the red thirst. -Didn’t look down on humans and felt compassion for them all. Vulkan was probably nicer and more caring, but Sanguinius was more respectful. Vulkan saw humans as beings to be protected. (At least until the siege). While Sanguinius treated them the same as his sons, giving them the same respect and dignity.

@@IOX-x1r I'll preface this by saying Sanguinius is my favorite primarch (big surprise with my pfp): The mightiest were Vulkan and Ferrus, Sanguinius comes at number 3. The fastest were Fulgrim and Jaghatai, Sang is again number 3. The most skilled are Lion and peak Fulgrim(before chaos ruined him), again Sang number 3. He isn't the best anywhere, but he is top 3 EVERYWHERE which makes him a monster. The only one I'd argue could beat him was Lion due to his own skill, impressive physical stats (surprised Curze with speed, surprised Russ with strength) and stellar primarch fight record, but even then it's a toss up. But Lion himself is a force to be reckoned with and considered the best primarch duelist for a reason. -Strategically Lion was unmatched, literally never lost a battle, and was able to overtake Guilliman and Horus in compliances despite joining the Crusade much later. In the 40th millennium he is still doing insane things like freeing an entire planet from a chaos warband with a single Astartes and a bunch of ragtag survivors. -Failed here catastrophically, basically the only one I heard he was even somewhat close with was Dorn, and even their relationship started extremely rocky. -Probably the most trusted of all primarchs, the Emperor entrusted him and him alone with Dark Age superweapons and even AI and considered him his most reliable son. Lion: "Loyalty is its own reward", enough said. A relationship of trust, loyalty and dependability between a father and his firstborn. -Another catastrophic failure, don't even need to elaborate. Thankfully, he is trying to do better in the 40th millennium. -Lion always considered it his responsibility to protect humanity by "hunting the things that prey on it in the dark", and he does care. However, his cold demeanor and his brutal pragmatism which sees him willing to destroy entire planets with no hesitation (something even Perturabo, Curze and Angron hesitated at) if he judges it the optimal path to victory make him seem monstrous. Again, trying to do better these days So yeah, by these criteria Sang takes it comfortably.

@@Ralldoron Brother, if you've finished the Siege of Terra books you'll struggle to say that the Lion is Sanguinius' better in a duel. Sanguinius operates at a level that none save Chaos infused Horus could hope to beat.

@@Kierano777 I understand where you're coming from, but Lion himself has feats that defy reason, such as striking Curze so fast he didn't even see the blow or his recent fight with Angron where old, noticeably weakened Lion beats him without taking almost any damage (I am aware of what Sanguinius did on Terra, but though wounded he was still in his prime). His reflexes and skill are superlative even compared to his brothers. Obviously I rate Sanguinius at the top (his one sided massacre of Ka'bandha and Kyriss is not nearly talked about enough for how absurd of a feat it is), but the more I read about The Lion the more I realize why he's the firstborn.

@@Ralldoron You are blatantly wrong here. Everything you just said is your head cannon. Head cannon based on very old lore. Or more likely based on majorkill videos… and let me tell you lot of what he says is pure, grade A bs. Sanguinius is THE FASTEST. There is no debate here. Horus himself at the height of his power, when he can freely manipulate time to trick the emperor in the past. And Horus who has repeated his fight with Sanguinius for a thousand times. There is no more reliable narrator regarding how powerful Sanguinius or any of this brothers are. Speed: “Horus Lupercal, despite his greater bulk, is not slow. His every step, movement, swing and strike is bullet-fast, the lethal blink of a las-bolt. Faster than any Astartesian reaction, faster than any Custodes reflex, faster than any primarch. Except one. Sanguinius is making him seem ponderous, heavy and cumbersome” -This was from Horus’s perspective. And he is swinging faster than ANY primearch… and Sanguinius is even faster than that. So much faster that he makes him look slow. Might: Horus literally calls him THE MIGHTIEST PRIMEARCH. And to just drive that point home: “He hits you again. He soars clear, hooking a long, wide curve around the end columns. As he comes out of the turn, his wings begin to beat more furiously as he accelerates into the next run. You try to block him- Another strike. A good one. That would have disembowelled Angron. That would have sheared the Pale King's heart in two. That would have taken Ferrus' head from his shoulders.” -Sanguinius is literally dishing out blows that would kills primearchs one after the other. Horus literally says that Sanguinius’s strike would have killed Ferus and mortarion in an instant. Sanguinius is definitely the mightiest. Skill? He is potentially more skilled then that emperor himself: “The gleaming Angel's relentless circuits around his ponderous foe have become a kind of dance: nimble, acrobatic, unstinting, elegant. There is intricate grace in his every movement, a demonstration of faultless martial prowess that no one in the universe could replicate. It is dazzling in its exactitude, fluid and pure, almost performative, like a rite or sacred act. There is no effort wasted, no redundancy.” -Once again, this is Horus at the hight of his power. Horus that tricked the emperor and Horus that knew everything there was to know about the primearchs. And Sanguinius did this WHILE mortally wounded and suffering from 1000 new wounds he sustained from killing 300 elite Luna wolves. He was also exhausted from the siege. In terms of skill, THERE IS NO DOUBT that Sanguinius is in his own realm where. Also Lion isn’t that powerful. Russ places him bellow Sanguinius. Russ says that he can’t beat Sanguinius while he is sure he can beat Lion. And he has fought the Lion before. Lion would die near instantly if Sanguinius chose to kill. Sanguinius is faster, more skilled, can fly and is better armed. -Lion was found 9 years after Guilliman. (It’s not “WAAAY after”). And strategically he was nothing compared to Dorn, Perturbabo, Ferus and Guilliman himself. Guilliman actually stayed to fix the worlds he conquered. And in terms of military victories Russ and Angron had the most. As for Horus, Horus commanded many legions under him before their primearchs were found. He most likely shared the glory. And it’s also said that the Luna wolves brought the most worlds into compliance. Who brought most worlds into compliance is whoever the writers feels like if. Horus states himself that in terms of strategy Ferus was your guy and was superior to Perti. Perturabo directed the siege and Dorn defended it. Neither of which Lion could come close to replicating. We both know this to be true. Guilliman is also superior. Look could have never fix up the imperium like Guilliman did in 40k. His strategic mind is comparable to Sanguinius. He isn’t special in that regard. -Sanguinius WAS THE MOST BELOVED PRIMEARCH: Khan and Magnus liked him because of the librarius. Guilliman and the Lion literally made him emperor. Horus loved him. Konrad believed him to be perfect and traveled the galaxy to speak to him. Angron’s nail’s were soothed by his mere presence. Dorn literally shed a tear when they hugged after he closed the eternity gate. Lorgar WORSHIPPED him. Alpharius envied him for his wings…XD I could go on, but I think I have made my point. -That’s not much of a relationship is it? He was a good weapon. That’s how emperor treated the Lion. As a weapon. Not as a son. He trusted his nature. Not the person. With Sanguinius and Khan it was a different kind of relationship. They were not close with the emperor. But they were most likely his favorites. Because they had their own minds and values and didn’t worship him without question. Also, AS I SAID… he was the favorite son: “But when it came down to it, there were only two legitimate choices. Two favourites, lets not pretend otherwise. Myself, and the only other son who holds a place in my father's affections as significant as my own. My angel brother, Sanguinius. He came late, but was perhaps the most beloved. --- If my father has a favourite son, Mersadie, it is Sanguinius.” -Horus Lupercal - Sanguinius had the best relationship with his sons. They had the deepest connection spiritually, emotionally, biologically and psychically. -The Lion didn’t have a great relationship with humans. He looked down on them and much like Horus thought himself above them. More like their shepherd, rather then their equals. As I said, what makes Sanguinius best regarding his treatment of humans was his humility. He didn’t see them as weaker versions of himself. He gave them the respect they deserved and mourned all loss of life. He treated them as the emperor saw them. As THE future. Unlike any of his brothers say for The Khan. Rest of them saw humans as things to be protected, oppressed or ruled over.

⚫ Using the Angels of Absolution as an example, isn't it cooler to give the Dark Angels (personal rename: the Rock Angels) the bone color and the Death Guard the green color?

Nope he has not really had any lore progression since his novel son of the forest which is quite odd

The story will go forward in another 5 years xD

It's bizarre especially considering that author's put out two other books since then. So I doubt it's a hold up there. My guess is that they're trying to ensure that whatever they do with the Lion in The Scouring series (if we ever get that) will align with what they're doing with the Lion moving forward in the 41st millennium

​@@2012sonoraHe'll not really be able to do much in the scouring. Lore as it is now, he'll return to Caliban and take a big nap after his disagreement with Luther takes a physical turn.

People: Why do you like the Lion so much? Me: He’s the ultimate failsafe for when things go off the rails or Primarchs and their Legions need to be dealt with (Russ cuts the head off the snake, the Lion makes sure there is nothing left).

Son of the Forest was great, I would be disappointed if you were right because Brooks came off as not only someone who loves and respects 40k lore but also views loyalist Primarchs and Astartes as genuine heroes.

because he's overrated as fuck

Ah yes, the guy whose ass The Lion kicked in an embarrassing fashion is better than The Lion.

@@Ralldoron yes the guy who beat the lion and Guilliman in a 2v1 the only primarch to ever best two brothers at the same time if I remember correctly.

@@lordjav1320 Except he didn't? He attempted to bait them and then kill them with explosives, at no point were they in danger of actually losing. Bear in mind he can literally see the future yet The Lion was able to curb stomp him in their last two duels.

@@Ralldoron doesn't seem that way to me, it looks like vampire man beat the robot gorilla and the kitty

@@lordjav1320 His last fight with Lion ended with his spine broken and the Lion not even winded, then when Sanguinius (the REAL vampire man) threatened to kill him with his bare hands he literally started crying like a bitch until The Lion interceded to save his life. I am not making this up, the """""Night Haunter""""" was so terrified of Sanguinius in his bloodrage mode he started doubting all of his visions and screaming like a child. Not the best guy to simp for.

All of the Emperor's sons could not maintain the absolute loyalty of their Legions, even the traitors had Marines remain loyal. Lorkan, Rylanor, etc.

@@Skiritai not all faced a civil war within their own legion that destroyed their home world and haunted their sons for 10,000 years.