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Everyone knows that the "legend" in "Legend of Zelda" is about the little box that tells you what the map icons mean.

I personally love a timeline. It’s world building. Connecting dots, seeing purpose, evolution, and a story, all help me immerse myself in these games.

I've seen too many people complain that the timeline "isn't canon" because it "doesn't make sense." I can't imagine where 99% of story telling would be if everyone gave up on story the second you had to solve anything for yourself lol. Thanks for making a video on this, Bandit.

Thank you for this. Toxic positivity is the single biggest issue in pretty much every fandom today. It’s like we’ve collectively forgotten that we can like something while still acknowledging it has flaws.

I mean, it's always been pretty clear that Nintendo always focuses more on the gameplay rather than the story, but saying they downright "don't care" or "hate stories" is pretty stupid

My favorite Zelda game is Majora’s Mask. Not only did it help me in a rough time, but it’s just such a beautifully designed game

Something I didn’t know until recently was , ganondorf dragmire and the imprisonment of him was addressed in ALTTP in the booklet I couldn’t read as a young kid around then and did not know that

I grew up with Ocarina of Time but my favorite is vaguely tied between Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess. I remember waiting in line for 14 hours to get the Wii and Twilight Princess and then staying up until 6 in the morning playing it. It also has my favorite companion ever. But I also remember the nostalgia of playing the desperate world of Majora's Mask for the first time and it always takes me back when I hear the music.

So, jokey post from earlier aside: the downfall timeline *does* make sense. When Zelda sent Link back in time, she weakened the fabric of spacetime, and because the Triforce was split, each piece ended up with a timeline that it's wielder "dominated" over. The Downfall Timeline is the Power Timeline.

My favorite Zelda title is Twilight Princess. I still remember when I was watching my older sister play it and when I saw that you can play as a wolf my dog-loving heart was like, "This is the best game ever."

My favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask. And Bandit, yours opinions made my feelings about Tears became more soft and understandable. Because I was very conflicted about TotK. It was the first Zelda that I did not want to make 100% and I couldn't understand why. But after your first vídeo, I could understand what I was feeling and now I am trying to make 100% of the game. So, thank you so much. Great video as always.

Personally, I can go either way. As a huge fan of the lore and somebody who has advocated for YEARS that the timelime always existed, I'd love for them to stick with it, make it stronger, and give connected stories we all love. After all, restrictions can make creativity bloom just as much as freedom (just look at Spiderman the Animated Series as an extreme example) But also, i get it. I understand not wanting to feel constricted and just make each game a unique experience. And while it wouldn't be as fun anymore to theorize, I'd still enjoy the series. Nothing will change that. But this half assed "eh, we kinda know, but we kinda dont, YOU figure it out" mindest that led to TotK's disconnected and just ultimately lazy (in some aspects) story is absolutely not how i think the series should go. Strong timeline or no timeline, no awkward in between, please.

Many people don’t know, but “STORY” is basically ALL we had at one point. To say there isn’t a story/they never cared about story/a story couldn’t work in Zelda- it’s all just complete nonsense. Back in the day before the swarm of social media and the internet, people relied on story and lore IN THE GAME to get information. It wasn’t a necessity but Nintendo and the Zelda team leaned into this so much because it was working. It’s why there’s a timeline, it’s why there’s a giant theory/analysis community. Bandit himself has done extensive research on story alone in the Zelda series. This isn’t including characters, setting or anything else in the games. Why it sucks to hear the opposite of this is because it’s not even an opinion, it’s just wrong and ignorant. Some people have put years of their life into the fact that there is a legitimate story to tell in the Zelda franchise. It’s just weird to hear. I still laugh when people say things with zero thought, experience or research. What’s next: “Mozart didn’t care about music?” “Bruce Lee didn’t care about martial arts?” “Dogs never cared about bones?” The end

I've never understood the people that argue that Nintendo never wanted a timeline, or whatever similar argument they make, when there is so much proof that that is not true

I think they had an opportunity to use BotW/TotK as a vehicle to restart the timelines if that's what they want to do. Hylia is the goddess of time after all, so it could have been part of her divine plan to have the timelines split and then converge at the point of those games. This would essentially mean that Demise was successfully "defeated" by being bound in an endless cycle and relegated to the original timeline, while creating a new timeline with no Demise or Ganon. I kind of thought that's where they were going before the release, actually. The symbology of TotK's Ouroboros-esque logo (could be interpreted as one timeline consuming and overwriting the previous, for example) and things from all games appearing in BotW/TotK seemed to be hinting that that was the case...but I guess it was just memberberries after all. Oh, and Windwaker is my favourite, btw.

And about what you said of Zelda as a franchise already having restrictions, but having room for creativity is so true in the sense that a link between worlds had so many inovations to the zelda formula while still functioning and feeling like a zelda game

I've been a writer for a very long time. The book example you give is a good one. When a story is crafted with the intention of sequels and prequels, there are a thousand subtle hints of where its direction came from and is going. In my case, my first book series takes place towards the end of its world's timeline. That said, there had to be a context with the setting. A setting that (for the story's sake) had to have existed prior to the story. It took my over a decade to develop what I have and I treat detail with respect. There had to be enough to get readers thinking. That said, it seems as though the writers for TotK (and BotW to some extent) used the previous games' stories and lore as a crutch for its lack of contribution to the narrative. Now major parts of those older games are reduced to nothing more than tourist spots with no added meaning or context. Don't have a clue why so many people claim this to be good storytelling.

Nintendo's Zelda team is simultaneously too full of themselfs and too self conscious about the timeline and lore of the series,

If Nintendo didn't use to care about the Zelda-timeline, then they wouldn't have filled their games with references, they wouldn't have made Twilight Princess Link the direct descendant of the Hero of Time, Ocarina of Time wouldn't have been the back-drop for Windwaker, they wouldn't have clearly stated that Skyward Sword was first in the timeline, you wouldn't have had any sequels that follow directly after another game (Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, Twilight Princess, etc.), and much more. The Zelda-timeline USED to matter... My opinion is that the Zelda-team should focus more on the timeline again, as the story is important for enjoyment of the game. My favorite Zelda-game is Twilight Princess BTW

Miyamoto said he had a secret timeline document on his computer years before we got one published.

My favorite Zelda game is Links Awakening. They do not need a timeline for the external timeline. They need an internal timeline, and people dedicated to writing. Ive been writing about this topic for the last few weeks for a video.

I just wanted to express real quick...the fallen timeline makes perfect sense when you realize that during the development of ocarina of time, before they decided to implement the time travel mechanic, it was meant to be a direct prequel to a link to the past set within the imprisoning war i think it was called? that's mentioned in a link to the past's backstory. when they decided to implement the time travel mechanics the story shifted. It was still a prequel to a link to the past, but the events of the imprisoning war happen differently ending with the hero defeating gannondorf before he got all the pieces of the triforce. Ocarina's story then split the timeline in two, leaving a link to the past's backstory as the events that happen when gannondorf isn't defeated by the hero. Since in that game's backstory Gannondorf gets the full trifoce, becomes Ganon, and then is sealed away by the sages/wise men.

It’s a little ironic that they talk about the timeline limiting their creativity when the sky islands and depths are almost all copy and pasted.

My favorite Zelda game is Wind Waker, I'd like to see a remake of it and add the ability to explore under the sea and see all of Hyrule kinda like a reverse TOTK Depths.

I still love the idea of the Fallen Timeline taking place after the bad end of The Minish Cap (and after Four Swords), which is established.

You know. I think Tears of the Kingdom is an especially unique case because the entire game was billed as a sequel. Forget about the timeline - many games in the series seem to tenuously connect at best. But when the game is supposed to be a sequel and it feels so disconnected from its predecessor, that's when things get a little frustrating. I made a video about this where Tears of the Kingdom doesn't feel like it expanded on Breath of the Wild, just retold it with better gameplay.

Aonuma summed it up perfectly: this franchise is about puzzle solving, so of course, entertain the idea that its lore is also a puzzle of sorts.

Do you think Nintendo should drop the Zelda Timeline, or try to fix it in future games?

I really do appreciate these types of videos. It's nice to see a Zelda content creator that doesn't sugar coat their thoughts on a game. Not saying others are disingenuous, but you come off as extremely genuine.

To me it's a lazy excuse when they argue they don't want previous games lore to constrict creativity and gameplay.

My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time. You nailed it. They could’ve done both but they decided to be lazy and use the same exact formula as BOTW, instead of just creating an entirely new experience on the expanded world of TOTK. They could’ve added more temples, it didn’t have to be 4. They could’ve done more than just keep it to the same 4 challenges with the 4 different races in Hyrule. I would’ve loved a legitimate temple in the sky islands. I will say that I loved this iteration of Ganondorf. He looked insanely cool and the last fight was epic. I do agree that they completely messed up the story with him. They could’ve easily tied it in with the timeline…but once again, decided to be lazy and coast on the success of BOTW. I loved TOTK and had a blast playing the game. It’s still my favorite game of the year but I’m glad that it didn’t win because Nintendo needs to realize that they just can’t be lazy and coast off the back of a previous game.

Honestly... I think at this point, Nintendo should just do a complete reboot of the entire Legend of Zelda franchise. Maybe create a game that starts with the origins of the goddesses and the triforce and go from there because right now, as great as the games are individually, collectively the Zelda story is an absolute mess.

My favorite Zelda Game is…..Skyward Sword. The story behind it has always drawn me in, and it has some of my favorite dungeons. Plus, maybe it was weird to some, but I always REALLY loved the Silent Realm trials. And it’s just got some of the best twists and plots of the story

It's sad that Kirby has more consistent lore then Zelda.

*Reads a quote about how Nintendo cares about the timeline* Bandit: "Nintendo doesn't care about the timeline"

My favorite Zelda is Twilight Princess. Also I completely agree with every point you make. The reason as to why Twilight Princess is my favorite is because of how it was able to reference past games. The fact that Oot Link is the one training TP Link is amazing to me. It makes me appreciate that understanding the lore is important to the overarching story. Totk has been the first Zelda game where I dislike the story. BoTW had an okay story but I still liked the idea of an apocalyptic depiction of Hyrule. Totk doesn’t have that charm like BoTW and the story is lacking because of it. Also the fact that the Master Sword breaks drives me insane. Disrespecting the story that you wrote is such a crazy concept to me. If you feel limited then it’s time to move on.

My favourite Zelda game is Twilight princess. My biggest issue is that they had the perfect start to the game. Ganondorf mentions Rauru, recognizes Zelda and Link, and even has a chest wound and cracks his neck on awakening. They had all the ingredients to run with the continuum right from the get go, and they didn’t. All new Ganondorf, no mention of the triforce, botw is basically forgotten, different RAURU. The gameplay could have still been the same, just explained better. Still in love with the franchise, currently playing hurdle warriors definitive edition.

For what it is worth, I greatly appreciate you putting yourself out there on the podium and taking the time to research and explain these points. I was deeply frustrated after playing TOTK and I voiced my opinions to my friends but I am not the best of words. You have given me the proper information, and the sources from which they come from, to properly explain to my friends, and whoever else, my gripes about this game that I was fixated with back in May. I genuinely thank you for putting into words what I could not. I love how you have explained this and I hope that you will receive as little ridicule as possible from taking your stand on this. Thank you for speaking your piece. Keep on keeping on.

Its not that Nintendo doesn't care about the story and lore... Its that the GAMEPLAY takes priority. They will change the timeline and alter the lore in order to fit that gameplay concept (for example, Wind Waker's entire premise of sailing across the ocean wouldn't be possible if they hadn't changed up some of the lore to explain it).

I don't believe that Bandit is a person. He's 100% AI. No one is that handsome. 😅😅😅

Personally, I like to think of the older zelda games as being stories people tell in the canon of BotW and TotK. That way, they can all still be part of the same universe while not introducing continuity errors. Kind of like what we have with the Trojan war. The Trojan war was a war that really happened, but the stories that exist about it are fictionalized. Other examples might be the Romance of the Three Kingdoms or old Japanese ghost stories. Of course, this is just my personal post-hoc justification, but I think the only way to have a cohesive zelda universe is to accept that not everything that happens in every game is the literal past of hyrule.

My favorite Zelda game is A Link to the Past! ^^ Thank you for explaining your perspective on this, and your work in general! I think that I agree with you for the most part, which is that devs should decide if they want to focus lore from the beginning. I definitely agree with that. We’ve seen so many game series’ stories fall into themselves because they’re clearly being written on the fly and that just doesn’t work anymore. The part where my perspective is different is that I think I’ve been growing up seeing these Zelda games the same way that I see the Mario series. Same title (1, 2, 3, lost levels, world, etc), same protagonist, same characters, etc. They are their own, mostly self-contained stories. There are bits sprinkled in here and there, like where Bowser didn’t start wanting Peach romantically until Super Mario Sunshine. And they’ve included in the story since then. But there wasn’t an origin story or something for it. And there is no pressure for a timeline connecting Bowser’s slowly blossoming love for the princess (though I’d be invested. Hahaha). I remember the Zelda series in that way. I understood them to be their own separate stories. And even with the devs talking about connections, I never saw evidence of a larger overarching narrative that the series itself was heading to conclude. But I would also suggest that games, their lore, and “connective lore tissues” only started being held up to a microscope since, like, Game Theory and the whole “LOOOOORRRRRRE” thing exploded. It makes sense to me that the Zelda team is in this mess. Before, it was enough to say that games were connected and only have small callouts here and there. It really sucks to say this but my generation of gamers didn’t give much of af about lore and overarching narrative. My gaming world was filled with people giving you crap because of what console you liked. And it was all about the graphics and the tech instead of the experience or story. You can also see how it affected Nintendo too. Yes, they still created fun and good games, but after their competitors popped up their thing (gimmick, maybe) has always been tech-focused. So when they finally released a timeline, I don’t think they really expected people to care this much about it. The people who make the bigger decisions like that are the ones who are used to their audience caring about technology. But the gaming world and its audience has expanded tremendously. And now that tech is mostly as good as it’s going to get, people are talking less about graphics and more about stories and lore. And with TotK you can see that Nintendo is still behind on the times. I really hope that, with your video and others’, they can see a bit more of what their audiences want. And instead of staying frustrated by it (which is how those fan-blaming comments come off), I hope they can pivot and we see some beautifully intricate games from them soon. (If you got this far, thanks for letting me share my perspective. I’m so fascinated to see how video games have grown and I’m so happy to see these new generations of gamers focusing more on storytelling and demanding more gameplay innovation. I have a good feeling that we’re going to see a flood of great games soon with the focus on these aspects!! If there are other good essays on this topic please share! I enjoy seeing what’s going on in the gaming world!)

My favorite Zelda game is Twilight Princess. I really like the idea of the timeline being another puzzle for us to solve. Some of the best memories I've had about Zelda's story is talking with other fans about how the games fit together. It starts a conversation, and conversations among fans can only make a world's popularity grow. I mean look at Five Nights at Freddy's and how many times those fans make a new timeline of events for it. That was what it was like in the Zelda franchise before Hyrule Historia gave us a timeline, and that is how I want things to be again.

As far as what they do with the timeline I want them to release something that clarifies the BOTW and TOTK stuff and then we can go from there with whatever it is they have planned next ( They recently said in an interview theyre done with the BOTW/TOTK style Zelda games)

I personally think the best thing they can do is Step 1. Completely redefine what the "Downfall timeline" even is. Like, maybe it's the timeline Link left behind after he pulled the Master Sword for the first time in OoT and Ganon ended up getting free reign of Hyrule which led to Shiek and the sages making an uprising against him and sealing him in the Sacred Realm with the Triforce, instead of the hypothetical mess we actually got. Step 2. Make BoTW and ToTK a seperate timeline that branches off directly from Skyward Sword after Link traveled back in time to fight Demise in the past. Since at the end of Skyward Sword, when Link goes back to their time, we see that Skyloft is still fallen even though there wouldn't be any reason for it to fall since Demise shouldn't even exist anymore. This tells me that there is now a timeline where Demise never got sealed, the Goddess Sword remained as the Goddess Sword, and Link and Zelda never went down to the surface as they never needed to. This would explain who the Zonai are and why one of them was a chosen hero in the first place. They would have access to the Goddess Sword to fight the Great Calamity since it's in the past, that hero was likely the one who forged the Master Sword in that hypothetical timeline. This would lead to the events of BoTW and ToTK without having to destoy Hyrule at all in the three main timelines since in this hypothetical one, Hyrule never existed until Rauru and Sonia got married. And the other collectable items you can get in the depths as easter eggs to previous games are just relics, they hold little to no power and are just stories. I think it would complicate the timeline a little more, but it would help it make more sense than it does now.

Someone like you would be awesome for writing a Zelda story. I imagine you think within the constraints of the timeline and lore when coming up with theories, and I’m sure you’ve realized this too. Some of your ideas you’ve theorized have captivated me and left me disappointed with the result of ToTK that we have today 😂 Edit- my favorite Zelda game is twilight princess

from my personal expirience of plotting out a massive videogame universe, i feel more creative when i have to play into the lore, for example i was watching the polar express with my friend and eventually a crismas themed factory game formed in my brain, now i could have left it there but instead i asked my self "how could i fit this into my universe", so i looked at the timeline and found a spot where the entire population was just coming off the apocalypse and things were getting back into a state of normalcy, from there the main character prays to the gods for the christmas spirit to return and one of the gods grant him the title of santa. by the time of "day zero" perhaps the factory served as a refugee area and eventually became the palace for the land of kings. i even find it harder to work with a blank slate i have so much detail about certain parts that i worry im never going to get as deep with other parts

if they never cared then why did they make an official time line. why was wind waker and twilight princess written as sequels to OOT. why was skyward sword written as a begging to said official timeline

One of my favorite things is the fact that in the ALttP booklet, the picture of the Sacred Realm reeealllly kinda looks like the Sky Islands from Tears of the Kingdom.

In recent times I've become much more in favor of having several smaller continuities. Basically only connect games where it makes sense to do so without having it create inconsistencies and retcons. For example: (SS, Botw, Totk) (Oot child, MM, TP) (Oot adult, TWW, PH, ST) (Alttp, Oox, LA, Tloz, Taol) (Albw, TFH)

I've really appreciated all of these videos you've made discussing the shortcomings of lore in totk. I think my hopes were a little too high at the end of the day, but this brings me some closure lol. Also just realized I've watched your videos for years now and never subscribed, until now!

My favorite Zelda game is Wind Waker! Even as a child it immediately appealed to me and it still resonates with me, flaws and all because of its storytelling and aesthetic both visually and as an adventure. The phrase needs to be “Nintendo REGRETS the timeline” instead of that they never wanted it, especially since the new games have no official involvement with the canon timeline. Makes it even funnier too that they forced Ganon/Ganondorf into BOTW/TOTK if they “don’t like being restrained creatively by the timeline”. Because at the end of the day there’s interpretive storytelling that opens the door for lore and theory crafting and then there’s lazy writing, and even as a fan who loves theory crafting, I don’t want to do their work for them.

i think the timeline split in oot can just be seen as the fallen timeline is when its game over and you stop playing.

Great video. Personally I think that they should either keep the timeline stuff as it is now, or focus a bit more on it (Not actually answering more questions, but moreso avoid active contradictions - because as you said, fans can fill in the gaps as long as the game isn't actively against it). Even less focus on lore would be sad ;-;

I get this. It'd be like saying all Mario, Mario kart, Mario sports, and Mario parties are all on some continuous timeline that's supposed to make sense and somehow explain Bowser going between "friendly" and villainous. If there's not a clear timeline with everything then don't say there's a grand timeline. Explain with alternate dimensions in all non-clear connected games. Just throw in a line about how someone did a ritual to resurrect Ganondorf to explain him showing up again. They already successfully did that in a handful of games. Like make this start pre-skyward sword and have a line showing Demise spawning out of the oozing malice/gloom housing the soul of Ganon or something. Or a line that Rauru and Sonia are re-founding the lost Hyrule kingdom. So many easy ways to let it "fit"

You can just say "ratatoskr" LMAO

My favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask. If people take a moment and review the stories from the various games, they'll understand why fans are very passionate about it. There IS a semi cohesive timeline, all the way back since the 80's. Zelda stories regularly paid homages to previous titles and even acknowledge them (Majora's Mask and Wind Waker tying to Ocarina of Time, Spirit Tracks calling back to Phantom Hourglass and Wind Waker). Twilight Princess had TWO Links as blood relatives, with OoT Link being TP Link's direct ancestor. It was also imply that ST Link is related to WW Link (I may be misremembering, though. Its been years since I played Spirit Tracks). These games regularly call out to each other prior to BotW, and saying they are "legends being misinterpreted" shows a lack of understanding of the lore. There is no arguing the mess they made with the timeline though. The Downfall Timeline should've been its own alternate reality where the timeline never split, rather than being slapped on haphazardly. Its ok to not have everything in the same continuity. BotW and TotK are basically their own beasts that are better off being their own canon. Alternate Universes (AU) are a fun way to experiment with the world and its characters without butchering the original canon. Going forward they could focus on just doing that if they feel boxed in by the timeline. Make new lore, new histoies, and new outcomes. Even if its not always cohesive, Zelda has always had simple but effective storytelling that set it apart from the likes of Mario or Donkey Kong. Its a tale of wonder and fairytales with many different meanings that make these games that much more endearing to the community. Hyrule feels like a second home that fans are a part of and who wants to learn its history, as silly as that sounds! :)

It's like the whole graphics vs gameplay debate, except now it's graphics vs gameplay vs story. The argument is you have to choose between them, but I never understood why they have to be exclusive of each other. 🥴 With the time between games, you can put in time equally. I'm sure the people writing the story aren't integral in creating the mechanics. If so why isn't there another department? Idk 😵

My favorite Zelda game is Skyward Sword. Love this video, and great job providing clear evidence that, once upon a time, they did care about following a clear continuity. Not sure what happened with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, they could have worked really well story-wise honestly if they had been set in a new land, not Hyrule, and the villain hadn't been some permutation of Ganon but someone new. They wrote themselves into a really weird spot, and that never needed to happen.

I’m with you Bandit 👏🏾, there’s no excuse to spam the same cutscene 4 times after each dungeon. So much potential from all the lore in breath of the wild. Tears of the kingdom fails as a sequel in my opinion

I think the Zelda games should split. Maybe have one libe that does follow a specific timeline but also have other independent games as well. One of the things I've always loved about Zelda is the story and the continuing timeline but seems like they have struggled with that sense there are so many games. Doing that would also allow for more creativity.... in theroy lol.

It is absolutely bonkers that for a series with almost 30 games, we know almost absolutely nothing about any geographically adjacent nations to Hyrule. The few that come up like Koholint end up not even existing in the end. Hyrule has more convoluted parallel realities and alternate universes than geographic neighbors you can physically walk to.

My favorite Zelda game and then your favorite Zelda game. Agreed with absolutely every word, from start to finish, other than the part about you being a rambler; this was very easy to follow. Guys like Zelda Lore who have gone into every last possible minute detail in ways I never even came close to back when I was a timeline theorizer have done infinitely more with the Zelda timeline than Nintendo ever will, and I'd love for Nintendo to leave us to it.

Mario games all have similar titles, continuity references, and even hints to future games and yet most of the internet will tell you that Mario has no canon I just find that interesting lol I think the difference is that Mario is silly so most people aren't as invested

I like your discussion and response. I think dropping the timeline would work here; why restrict themselves with a timeline. We’ve already got a pretty good picture of thee events, and I’m good with wherever the series goes next. My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time, but I love them all

I think they honestly enjoy it. I think the creators love to see fans talking about it, picking apart their game and cross referencing it with old ones. One of the mainstays of Zelda is it’s relationship with time, and that is never going to change, so the conversations are never going to end. I’m perfectly fine with being a little more lax about it, but it’s still so much fun to theorize and gather all the information you can like a little info-fiend.

My favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask. I actually disagree with notion that timeline should be relased to the fans, as that to me that is just a admission that Nintendo, unlike SEGA, doesn't even want to try to put in the effort anymore of keeping a continuity in regards to LoZ or fix their mistakes. Its just running away from the issue IMO.

My favorite Zelda game is, Twilight Princess (GameCube), because it was the first one I actually bought for myself. All of them are great, but that holds a special place in my heart for that specific reason.

Please don't support Temu, they're not to be trusted

Not caring about the story ≠ not caring about continuity. Zelda fans have to understand that

yooooo love the beard dude !

My favorite Zelda game is a toss up between Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask. I think the Zelda team is done with the Era of the Wild just as much as the fans are at this point (it's been almost 10 years since BOTW Link was revealed!). Really looking forward to what's next in store for Zelda, ironically the series needs something really fresh again.

my favorite zelda games é majoras mask! such a cool lore and concept. the time loop, the characters, the strange things like aliens, everything is amazing.

Even if one chooses to make games for experience rather than story, story is part of the experience.

im working on a theory bout Ganondorf but i do mention something bout the timeline in it, and this is from the script. "I theorized Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom that we play exist in a separate Alternate Reality Parralel Reality from the OG timeline, where all the games from the OG Timeline still exist but are remixed and altered. . Somehow it splits at Skyward Sword but point is, the events we see in Tears of the Kingdom is a Alternate Parallel Reality similiar to the Many-Worlds Interpretation Theory or like The Elder Scrolls Dragon Break except the "Convergence" part is a seperate timeline mirroring and dirstoring the Original. Think Lorule being a mirror of Hyrule, or Termina and its people even. Its a rebooted timeline where the old games are just reordered and remixed to make something new yet vaguely familiar. " I did make a video but i still kinda suck at making videos i think some people thought i meant the og timeline convergences at the end when that is NOT what i was meaning in my Timeline theory video. lol TLDR I think its a Reboot Timeline, and i got a long way to go to get as good as you! You inspire me man! Keep up the great work!

My favorite Zelda game is Twilight Princess. I made my own canon for Hyrule and now its the setting for my D&D campaign

This is what I mean when I say BOTW/TOTK fans aren't the same as Zelda fans bruh how can someone unironically say Nintendo never cared about the story??? I'm not even a Zeldahead and I think that's cap 😭

My take is as someone who grew up with the original legend of Zelda and was blown away by the first 3d game with OOT, I loved theorizing about the lore and unraveling the mysteries. I also like when they tried to connect the timelines with Hyrule Historia. So I would like them to continue to build onto that story. But I can understand not wanting to box themselves in so they can continue to make games forever like Mario. However I do care about Zelda different than Mario and I’m still holding onto hope that there will be future games with great stories and not just new play functions.

I had this argument on reddit and got downvoted to hell... the games mention things that happened in other games or even have the same characters, but people still deny that they are connected. Like, Spirit Tracks has the direct descendants of characters from WW. How is that not connected then??

They probably did care about the timeline and may even still do, but at this point they may as well not care at all (they should definitely stop acting like they care). When even the direct sequels have almost no connection to their immediate previous entries, outside of superficial elements that don't impact the story AT ALL, then they are essentially rebooting the series with every entry. This is obviously true of TotK, given everything that game threw out from BotW, but really it's the same for Majora's Mask and arguably even Zelda 2. These direct sequels can be played without the knowledge of the previous entries, and could be considered standalone games if not for their sequel status. I don't know about you guys, but if a series is essentially rebooting with every entry, then that's not really a series to me. BotW teased that they were possibly going to change the formula and focus more on the overall story, or make a renewed focus on unifying the story, and the announcement of TotK as a direct sequel practically sealed the deal. But TotK threw all that out the window and proved they were going to continue with their soulless reboot format. That makes the disappointment doubly frustrating. I've said it repeatedly and I'll keep saying it: as far as managing the overarching story, Kingdom Hearts did it better.

The games got me into the series, and then the lore and outside media kept me into it

My favourite Zelda game is Majora's Mask! Honestly, I really enjoy these ramble videos. More ramble videos please, I enjoy listening.

The only real beef I have with the timeline is the 'fallen' split. It just doesn't make sense for oot to have a fallen variant when the others don't.

I actually disagree. It’s obvious that fans didn’t force Nintendo to create the timeline, that had that for years before it was revealed. But it’s also true that their philosophy is gameplay over story. I didn’t like TotK’s story because it all but discarded the canon timeline and felt more like a tribute to Zelda rather than a canon entry. Is there stuff we just don’t know yet that could be explained later? Most definitely. That doesn’t make some of their choices less infuriating and in spite of the existing canon.

The fans who criticize you for voicing your opinion on this are living in denial. I think it’s absolutely lazy that Nintendo doesn’t put just a little bit more effort into making the story better, and investing into the lore of the franchise. From the creative standpoint, this will not be difficult and would make these games so much better. They don’t have to limit themselves to any type of gameplay disabilities/ restrictions . They just have to try harder.

I love having a timeline, but I do feel that games like botw and totk should not connect to the timeline to keep it less sloppy and have some games simply be their own timeline rather than a weird alternative split or be 10,000 years later so nothing matters

my favorite zelda games are LttP, Oot, MM, and TP. can't really narrow it down more than that. I agree with you, though. if nothing else, it's much more fun for us to try to piece the time line together ourselves. just give us a few breadcrumbs and let us roll with it. as he said, it's a puzzle.

When it's comes to narrative in games I feel that it should be something that only a game can do. If the story of a game can just as easily be a book, show or movie then I don't really have a reason to care that much because the developers didn't care enough to make a narrative that only a game can have. Video games are an interactive form of media so the story should be something I can interact with.

If Nintendo never gave a fuck about the timeline they would have never made Skyward Sword. Period.

I totally agree, great video!

lore focus becomes a monster that smothers creativity and daunting for new fans

Sadly it looks like nintendo is on their high horse and said they will not try to change the formula or go back to classic story and gameplay. Seems like we are getting just more botw/totk style games. Its not the zelda that i fell in love with. I love the open world but without dungeons, orchestral music epis, lore, and funny characters the game is just a well made but generic open world game. Even link does not even wear his green tunic or the game has any mention of the triforce.

I remember seeing some of those comment's that crap actually had me like no f×cking way someone actually thinks that 😵

Thank you for making this video Bandit. I totally understand parts of what you mean regarding Nintendo, the timeline etc. I hope you do more videos regarding questioning Timelines and more Lore. Also, my favorite Zelda game is Ocarina since it was first Zelda game I ever beat and I watched my Older brother play it and I fell in love with it. Because of Ocarina I began to love the Lore of the Zelda Universe and everything in it. It got me interested in videos like this one and other Zelda related Lore etc. Anyway, thanks again for this video, looking forward to seeing your next one :)

the restriction thing comes a lot from the way that they make games, from past interviews and other reporting that we've known. They never start a game thinking "let's make a game that takes place at this time period", instead, the developers there are working on random prototypes of gameplay ideas with just non-descript shapes and 3d primitives. When they get something that they think they can make a game about, they'll start making the game. Only way after when the game is well established gameplay-wise they think about how to put the game in the context of a story (and even what series the game will even be in), historically they decided where the game fell in the timeline after all of that was decided and they'd put the game where they think it would fit the best given what the end result was. So if for example, they want to make a game based in a mechanic that somehow contradicts the events of past games, they'll just ignore it and do the mechanic anyway, that's the point that caring about canon would restrict them, it's sort of a big deal because the scenario is the last thing they decide so it can't limit things that came before and force them to redo and rethink any sort of gameplay idea that has already been decided, it would make the development process really frustrating.

I don't think they care ANYMORE, but they definitely SHOULD care. Connections to previous games shouldn't have to be HUGE as to not gatekeep(unless it's a direct sequel. TOTK needed to spend a lot more time than it did connecting Calamity Ganon and Demon King Ganondorf), but if EVERY game is a reboot, then things might start to get stale. Take for example, Ganondorf. The main villain of the series. Every game before BOTW/TOTK had the same Ganon(except FSA), just different iterations of him across resurrections, escaping from seals, and timeline splits. Then TOTK comes along with a new Ganondorf, claiming that "Having to maintain the connection to previous stories will limit our creativity", yet the origin to this Ganondorf is VERY derivative of the one in OoT. A male was born into the Gerudo and crowned King due to Gerudo custom, he went mad with power, faked his allegance to Hyrule in order to steal a powerful artifact, and attempts to take over the world. Ocarina of Time's story was BUILT around this, even the presence and EXISTENCE of the Gerudo were built around Ganondorf. In TOTK when they restarted Ganondorf from scratch, they just did everything from OoT but worse. The Gerudo's connection to Ganondorf is completely irrelevant, and he abandons them once he gets the Secret Stone. The only reason TOTK Ganondorf IS a Male Gerudo in the first place is because he's GANONDORF. But then, take the other games in the timeline after OoT with Ganondorf as the bad guy. Despite being the SAME Ganondorf from OoT, they're used in MUCH more unique ways than TOTK Ganondorf was when compared to OoT Ganondorf. If they ignore the timeline and start Ganondorf over from scratch every time, then they have to write the origin story again and again and again without being able to do anything new without being unfaithful to the character. If they use each of Ganondorf's appearances as a part of a larger timeline, then he can change overtime during and between games, causing each of his appearances to be new and unique. OoT Ganondorf, WW Ganondorf, and NES Ganon are all the same person, but they're all very unique iterations OF that person. Now, they could still change parts of the story every time to make things different, but if they changed things up TOO much without connecting to other games, then they might end up taking it to the point where they aren't being very faithful to the series, and where they might end up being better off if they made the game a new IP instead of a Zelda game. For example, I think TOTK Ganondorf would have worked better as a Shiekah, since they're a unique race instead of one of the many nations where you have to fight Divine Beasts and find secret stones. Then also because of the Yiga Clan and because of Shiekah technology being used by Calamity Ganon in BOTW. However, Ganondorf as a villain IS a Male Gerudo. At this point, it would make sense to just make it an entirely different villain, and to have other new villains who work better with the story you want to tell every time you make a new game. At THAT point, it would ALSO make sense to drastically change lots of other lore elements to make them fit with the story you're trying to tell, until eventually the games you're making aren't even Zelda games anymore from a lore perspective. Just a bunch of completely different and unrelated open-world puzzle-centered action-adventure games where you can turn into a wolf in one game and ride on a giant bird between floating islands in another. The connections between the story in each game is what ALLOWS these games to keep being Zelda games, while also having such unique ideas and settings. If there WAS no story connection to other games, then the people making the games would have to choose between having each game be somewhat basic and very similar to one-another(especially from a story perspective), OR to have the differences between entries set each game apart so much so that they can barely even be considered a part of the same series anymore. So in conclusion, keeping the timeline intact doesn't limit creativity in the Zelda franchise, it PERMITS creativity. And they should keep that timeline intact before the stories in this franchise either become super derivative or barely even Zelda anymore.

Timeline (Reality) denier: “You said Donkey Kong was a monkey instead of an ape. Zero credibility.” Yeah. These haters exist.

I think Nintendo explicitly doesn't care about the supposed timeline, they care about the stories of their individual games, but expecting one Zelda game to directly relate to any other is a kin to expecting the same from Final Fantasy

I get what you mean. There’ve been these inconsistencies throughout almost all of the Zelda games, and pretty much everyone’s noticed them. I believe what makes totk’s continuity differences from botw more noticeable is because it’s a direct sequel, using the exact same world an only with an 8-or-so year time gap. For me personally, I think the story of totk redeems its inconsistencies despite how much they irritate me, but I understand it’s not for everyone.