Tubs are great and have many advantages but recent improvements in clincher tech has narrowed and even surpassed tubs in some respects. I am trying some now.

True. Conti's carbon cement is less powerful.......

@@CyclespeedTours Do you use only the Conti carbon cement on your carbon rims or the other yellow one as well?

@@dickieblench5001 I use both. I believe the carbon one is less strong to avoid any damage to the rim

Probably just bad luck. Most tub users report fewer punctures than clinchers. I only ever puncture (about 1 or 2 a year (16000kms)) if I wear the tyre out too much. But repair foam usually gets me home fine. I'm very surprised that your sealant didn't work - perhaps it had dried out?

I'm still happy with them!

That's the famous tub feel!

Definitely. Tubs seem to be more puncture resistant, although exactly why is hard to say....higher TPI?

Cyclespeed Tours Tubs are less likely to pinch flat due to the rim shape. Some sew ups use latex tubes which are a little more flat resistant due to their suppleness. Tubs conform to the ground and obstacles better due to their suppleness. WACKOFORNIA has HORRIBLE roads, even though gas taxes are so high!! Most people OVER INFLATE their tires, causing faster wear, more flats, less traction, braking and control. If youre 180 lbs or less, 90psi is more than enough except on exceptionally smooth roads( none here!) and velodromes. Rock hard tires waste lots of energy bouncing off bumps and obstacles. The rider uses their body to absorb shock and more effort is needed to maintain a line. All those extra micro impacts(around here, not so micro!)and extra stress take a toll as the miles pile up. Having a tire’s larger contact patch at the ground makes all the difference in many ways!! Proper tire pressure is counter intuitive. IGNORE pressures printed on the side of tires!! Experiment during rides to find what works best for you. If youre going to use tubulars, splurge for the pro quality tires. Budget tubs are a nightmare of flats. I rode Clement del Mondos and Vittoria CG Paves back in the day. I never got flats until tires were at least 75% worn out. I frequently rode my silk tires offroad at 55 psi and very rarely got flats. Now I run ghetto(split tube) tubeless on my mtb and ‘cross bikes and havent had a flat in 15 YEARS!! NOT ONE! Ill run cx tires as low as 25 psi or mtb tires as low as 15 in real loose conditions like sand and mud. I have only rolled tires off a couple times and that was my fault for misjudging conditions or cornering too fast. Ghetto tubeless has a construction very similar to tubulars except the tire ‘unit’ isn’t glued to the rim.

@@rollinrat4850 whats your favorite tub for road riding?

@@aaron___6014 I don't use sew ups anymore. I'm not racing or even riding road much except to get to trails or commute.. Even 'cross tubs arent the best tires for the trails I like ride most. They'd get shredded. I'm riding trail on 'cross and gravelly bikes (rather slowly) that most people ride with suspension. I dig underbiking. I work with an elite 'cross racer. He likes FMB but will ride whatever his sponsors provide. Back in the day all the best tires were handmade. I'm sure that hasn't changed.

@@rollinrat4850 I doubt they conform to the ground and obstacles better, since they're routinely pumped rock hard at over 150 psi.

Happy days!

Good to see another 'believer'! Schwalbe One's have a good reputation but we haven't tried them yet. Low(er) psi is nice in the winter for grip and comfort.

Very true. 14 bars is a lot though! I'm more like 7....

Seems punctures are quite rare on tubs.

Cyclespeed Tours first week on tubs, I had a flat, But I was using continental sprint competition sooo

@Christian Tan Michelin Power Comp seem to be well puncture protected too and at a medium price. But a lot depends on where one rides too. Busy roads with lots of HGV traffic tend to have lots of sharp debris close to the kerbs.

@Christian Tan I have had those, but clinchers and they did puncture a few times. Once I remember it was a piece of glass stuck in the rubber that managed to work its way in through the nylon tape and kept puncturing the tubes, but it was so small as to be completely concealed. Only managed to find where it was looking at where the hole was on the tube and then looking at that same place on the inside of the tyre.

My puncture rate is 1 or 2 per 16 000km, and this generally happens when the tub is worn out. I have been buying some very good Vredstein tubs recently for 28E50.

hm... I made the switch back to tubs at my race bike only half a year ago, no puncture since then; with clinchers I had 5 punctures in the last 3 years, 4x I replaced only the inner tube, 1x I replaced the tire too (worn out). I have to watch how often I will buy new tubs... may be you are right with the cost point - time will show!

how are the tubs treating you? i've been thinking of making the switch back too. i'd reckon that if you add sealant inside the tub and you just check for cuts/rocks in the tire before rides that the tubular will do pretty well for a long time.

Yep, that's the danger of clinchers and most likely why pros ride tubs. It's nice to descend fast and not have to worry about that.....

IKR

Arthur J that’s what a lot of people missing. Safety on descends

Do you mean the tyres or the wheels?

Bicyclerollingresistance.com

I love vittoria tires! I have the Vittoria corda speed tubular for races and the vittoria corsa control for training, and even race days when it’s raining, it’s the greatest thing

Great stuff! I used C Competition too for a while and I like the quality, but wonder if the butyl tube is less efficient than the latex ones in Vittoria, although it's nice to not have to pump up the tyres every day!

You have to pump it up rock hard in order to avoid roll-offs. It's not an option; it's a requirement.

@@shannontrainer5857 Not at all. I run size 23 at 70 psi front, 80 psi rear, attached with a tape / size 28 at 60 psi, same not a single roll-off. Not even close. I am 75kg.

Why use glue if tapes are available and are equally good. You also avoid breathing in the harmful glue vapours. Very easy to remove a tyre too, using a tyre lever, and leaves a clean rim surface, so pretty much ready to mount a new tire straight away. That way replacing a tubular tyre takes me less time than replacing a clincher tube.

@@82vitt Tapes are not secure like glue. The tire is heated by braking and the heat of the asphalt, try to imagine the temperature of the tubulars at +50c of asphalt after a few hours of driving. For these reasons professionals do not use tapes because they are not too safe as a classic glue. I don't like them either, I don't need the tubs to come off in the middle of driving in the middle of the road and I die in a car crash. Again, you glue tubular once and forget...

That's a great deal and a massive improvement for the money. It's not so hard to pick up an old, but excellent set of tubs for peanuts, that will comfortably outperform most of the latest, greatest clinchers out there.

Sam here 5 days ago, just got 1100g tubs for 500 instead of 1000 never ysed brand new :)

With new tyres new casette ahhaaha just had to buy the brake pads

@@CyclespeedTours just the concept of tubs is nice it's much more efficient

Sorry to be so off topic but does any of you know of a way to log back into an instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the account password. I would love any tips you can give me

Sorry no idea!

Thanks!

I'm not so sure; Vittoria have a good selection of widths and types, as do Continental. Then you have Schwalbe, Veloflex, Tufo, etc. But yes, there is more choice for clinchers.

Michelin power tubular

Hi, I mostly use Vittoria, and I puncture maybe once a year. This almost always happens when the tyre is at the end of it's life, so I just throw it away, unless I've sealed it with my can of foam, and it's holding well, in which case I may use the tyre a bit more. I've never tried to unstitch and repair one, too much effort! I just apply glue to the new tub and leave for a bit. Then apply glue to the rim and mount tyre immediately. Done!

@@CyclespeedTours Hey thanks for the info. I'll maybe give Vittoria's a try. Will try a sealant this time too. It was a thorn that did it so its a small pin hole.

@@labelJohn Andrew Bernard don't mind risking risking serious injuries doing this dangerous shortcut, but there's a safety reasons why UCI pro mechanics apply multiple layers of glue over several days.

I often go full blast downhill and I feel much more comfortable with a tub on that with a clincher. I've seen clinchers pop off the rim on descents too. To the best of my knowledge, the pro peloton is almost all on tubs still.....

I think they'll be around for pros.

My tubless tires feel slow and sluggish on my racing bike which is a carbon giant tcr frame with disk brakes. But I hear the rims which are stock PR2 wheel sets I guess are very heavy so that may be the reason why to

there is a vey good reason why the pros use tubs... when they flat - you have rubber to ride on... when a clincher goes flat - you ride on carbon rims and will crash unless on a flat surface.... the tubeless made by Hutchinson and on the Shimano tubeless were somewhere in between. They can stay on and collapse like a tubular. The most efficient tire is the Tubeess system, but matching tire and rim is difficult - Mavic had to make their own...

wacked outdude Sew-ups still out perform clinchers, but it is only realized at the outer limits of traction. Most riders dont corner that hard or take those kind of risks. It is better because of the tubs shape and the way the construction allows the tire to conform to the ground. Its also the reason why rims have gotten wider. Low pressures and high volume tires are where its at for the majority of riders!! Clinchers have gotten way better since I used both clinchers and tubs in the 70s and 80s, but I can still feel a difference in rolling, shock absorption and hard cornering ability. In the shop I work at now, road tubeless is a bad joke! We hate them with a passion!!

I suspect Vittoria stopped making those tubs a while ago; I haven't seen or used them. But no problem, just pump them up and if they hold air still, you're good to go. I just bought a pair of Vittoria CX in 25mm for about 40$ each, but your smaller wheels (650) will limit your choices.

I use Continental glue. I have never had any issues in making the process a bit faster; I glue the rim and tyre the day before. Then, next day, I apply a fresh coat to the rim and mount tyre immediately. The damp glue allows easier centering of the tyre. The wheel is then rideable, but for peace of mind I often leave it overnight.

Cyclespeed Tours I could deal with that. Most info about gluing suggests gluing 3 coats and leaving each of them overnight to dry then doing the tire and a final coat, making the whole process over 3 days. Option b is to use tape which seems highly controversial. I watched a video on Mastik Pro glue, one coat and you're ready to go, team Lotto Jumbo uses it so I guess it passes the pro test

Absolutely. Some websites/forums really overthink it, and go way too far. Multiple coats of glue really aren't necessary unless it's the wheel's very first time. I wouldn't go near tape - it's easier-ish, but nowhere near as neat as glue. I've heard good thinks about Mastik Pro but not tried it yet.

I have used the TUFO tape for several years now, super easy and safe.

Good move! Depends a bit on which wheel, your weight, riding, etc, but 25mm is the smallest, and 28mm is more normal these days. Both are fine.

@@CyclespeedTours Thanks so much for the reply. Is there a specific Vittoria tire you would recommend? Tuffo tires are $41 on Amazon which is a nice price as I have seen Vittoria's are quite expensive. Once again I don't need the best available but just something decent in quality and reliable. Thanks again!

@@thru_and_thru Tufo are cheap and light but never seem to do well on rolling. Try second hand - many people sell off new or almost new tubs for bargain money. Vittoria are maybe around 60 Euros new. Try Continental Sprinter too.

@@CyclespeedTours thanks so much!! Will do!

Campagnolo Bora are excellent.

No, you don't need to. Punctures are rare, and then you can inject some puncture foam to get you home. When people tout the benefits of TubeLESS, they tend to forget the extra weight and CRR of the 'silicon milk' (actually latex I think).

Just use a can of puncture foam. Works great.

True, but I really don't puncture much, maybe once in 15000km.

Yep, but if a newbie, tubs can seem complicated.....

Mostly you can just apply fresh glue on top of the old, but if there's too much build up, scrape it off the rim using thinners.

In a nutshell sometimes you have to scrape the yeam off the rim. Thanks for the info. Keep it up.

I use to solvent to thoroughly clean the rim after removing the tire. When you leave the glue residue on, it will probably remain quite uneven, causing the new tire to hop. Not to mention it is much neater, easier to install, and a bit lighter too.

As long as there is only a thin residue left behind, I find it's not necessary to clean each time, as it takes ages, and it's a messy job. I ride quite a bit so can be changing a tyre every 2 months. Only when the residue has built up alot do I then take it all off.

I agree. Since the new tubular rims have a groove for the seam, you don't need a thick "bed" of glue like you did in the past. And a thin, well made layer of glue normally remains in good even condition after removing the old tire

Sounds good. What brand of tubular you using? Some are better than others.

@@CyclespeedTours continental sprinter 22c Never used such sys before so I can't judge

I accidentally purchase tubular tires. I wanna get them mounted for everyday riding do you think it's safe to do so?

yes of course, properly mounted tubs have no safety issues@@terrancepollock5035

Wish me luck Im going to do it.

If your spare has been pre-glued, then you should be fine - check out my video on how hard it is to remove an UNGLUED tub from a wheel when it's inflated. As long as you don't go crazy getting home then you should be fine.

Hi there, thanks so much for your prompt reply! really helpful as well . thanks again

@@tjnadah Don't listen to this fool. Do what the UCI pro mechanics do and apply several layers of glue over several days, allowing 24 hours for each layer to dry. Also, have a car loaded with several pre-glued wheelsets follow you on your rides.

@@shannontrainer5857 the wit is killing me. It would have been funnier if it wasn’t a few years late like a come back joke when the topic has moved on...

@@tjnadah kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q7mJaLuQxL7Sm6s.html

Yep, it still happens, it's such a shame that so few people use tubs these days.

Punctures are very rare, and I carry a can of aerosol sealant which works most of the time. But to be absolutely sure, carry a spare tub; you can buy a superlight one for that purpose.

Have the support car hand you a pre glued wheel and tire.

@@CyclespeedTours when you say carry a spare tub, do you also carry the glue? Wondering how you can fit a tub tyre in your jersey pocket or saddle pack!

@@eDDeboo It's rare that I take a spare tub, but if I do, a light one will fit OK into a jersey pocket if rolled tightly. No need for glue, as I would have already pre glued the tub.

@@CyclespeedTours guess I need to look into this gluing process more then, can't picture how a pre-glued tub would not ruin my jersey and if I don't need to change it for months will that glue just set and ruin the tub? Noticed in some other comments further down that the process involves a lot of waiting.

you never can go on riding with a punctured clincher, and with carbon clinchers you have the risk of damaged rim edges at every single puncture, but you can easily do that with a punctured tub - and at a reasonable speed, without damaging the rims.

Very true

Hi Lynne, yes they are. The rim bed is just dished, there are no 'hooks' for a tyre bead.

Cyclespeed Tours changing to tub wheels starts to get a bit expensive now. I have 3 sets of clincher wheels, I would now need to purchase a pair of tub wheels, is it really worth it. I don't compete in anyway, just a keen leisure cyclist.

No, that's quite an expense, not really worth it. Maybe sell a pair of your clinchers and buy some 2nd hand tubs just to try them out.@@lynnebarkas6906

Tubeless, carefully and properly set up, is wonderful on LOW PRESSURE high volume tires. Ive used ghetto tubeless set ups 15 years. NOT ONE FLAT!!!! I know what it takes to make my tires RELIABLE. There was a definite learning curve and experimentation required. READ PATIENCE!! Not everything is ‘tubeless ready’ just because they say it is. There are too many variables. In the shop where I wrench, WE ALL HATE ROAD TUBELESS!! We have about a 50% success rate setting them up. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO GOOD ENOUGH! Any tubeless set up requiring more than 60-70 psi will likely be troublesome at some point. Road tubeless is all about low rolling resistance and performance not flat prevention. The pressures are too high. Tires and rims need to be so tight as to break tire levers and even tire’s kevlar beads. HAVE FUN out on the road installing a tube!! My advice, if youre thinking of buying road tubeless ready wheels and tires is FORGET IT. INVEST in tubulars. Theres a good reason the pros still ride them. Dont listen to all the marketing drivel. Just because tires and rims say ‘tubeless’ ready DOESN’T mean they are! Tubeless FREQUENTLY requires LOTS of PATIENCE and experimentation. Ive lost count of frustrated and angry customers due to misconceptions, bad marketing and special( different) maintenance that tubeless requires.

@@rollinrat4850 so you're saying tubeless is good if you have a wheel that's optimized for it, rather than just 'ready' for it. I'm looking for a set of ENVE 4.5 AR and they're apparently made for tubeless so I'm assuming they fit your early 'wonderful' description?

@@eDDeboo Enve mtn rims seems to use a bead seat diameter that's a little larger than most rims. I don't have any Experience with Rnve road rims and tubeless. Enve tubeless set ups are reliable once you get the tires on. They are really tight! Tires on Enve rims can be so tight that once you struggle to get them on the rim, the tires are hard to seat Even with a compressor. Definitely prestretch your tires! You must use their overpriced valves too. Nothing else works good with their rim shape. I'd never want to make a repair on Enves out in the field. High pressure tubeless stinks unless you've got money to burn. Lower pressure high volume set ups under 60 psi often work great. That's what I'm doing. I do tubeless different than most. I use the old original method. Split tube ghetto. I can do it on most any rim , even old non tubeless rims and tires. There are a few rims out there with that larger diameter and they're just not worth the effort in my point of view. I want stuff that's simple and quick to fix. If I was going to buy carbon rims, (I won't) I'd get Santa Cruz Reserve rims. Ive got friends who work there. They're a great local company and Santa Cruz is really good about honoring warranties. They work pretty much perfect for tubeless too. My issue with carbon is from a quality control point of view. I used to build carbon parts for aerospace. I don't think it's worth what they're asking. For the price of one carbon rim I can buy enough alloy rims for the rest of my life!

sadly in never tried tubeless. from what i heard i am not convinced. they are ~same weight (rims are bit heavier-tubless ready tires too + glue= basicly same weigth compared to clincher), messy sealant. if you want to change the tire have fun cleaning it. you can´t run them on high pressures and they loose pressure faster. i don´t buy that real low pressure route for road bikes. some are a nightmare to install. if you have a flat and the sealant won´t work, you still need to put an inner tube in that mess of sealant to get home. so you need a spare tube anyway. if you ask me, the best setup for amateur is a 23mm Tire on a 17-19C Rim (21C maybe even more aero). with a mixed alloy/carbon deepsection rim of around 50-60mm depth. using standart 100g inner tubes. with 6-7bar. with that you can descent, heat is not that much of a problem. the tire has reveres if pressure rises from heat. easy to repair,setup and maintain. and i expect them only to cost like 5-10 Watts more. Need to check how good TPU inner tubes are. to be fair, would love to try a set of tubulars.

Good stuff! More riders should use / try tubs, I think they'd like them.

You don't need to get the glue off every time, just occasionally, and paint thinner really doesn't do much either

I used straight petrol (95 octane) and needed 5 minutes to get all the glue off the rim. Will be using tubular tape next. Cheers.

Yes, I have always found tubs to be very reliable and puncture resistant.

the problem with tubeless is they now go on bicycles as fast as any inner city trafffic limits, but are not regulated ISO and ANSI like tires. So you have different rims and application methods, use of lever force and other manufacturing deficiencies that, at a certain psi or temperature, does let go on the weakest sidewall spot. The list of tubuless riders waking up in hospitals, broken 15,000$ bike nowhere to be seen, has gone up. of course this does not happen with car tires, not since the Firestone fiasco that killed. Another issue with tubeless is that they are psi and temperature sensitive. you can pump it at 70 psi but at 35-50c asphalt can go up beyond safety. of course this simply does not happen with tubulars, they may go up 10% but have where to expand, safely. Outside the rim cavity, not tubeless, the increase the sideload on the rim, hook and bead. for these safety concerns, they should be banned until regulated. as for puncture- how many times i checked a warn out Veloflex or Conti tubular, finding half a dozen-dozen tread to casing punctures, but NONE that breached then inner tube (or i would have had a flat). with tubeless that is a flat each time, stop ride or slow down even if sealed, and, esp on rears, must remove and patch at home. that would be 12 lost rides?? 5% of trips per tubeless lifecycle? yes depends where one lives, some pristine EU cities no doubt conti TL last forever no punctures..and yes, slow 10-30 km riders tubeless is less an issue, not enough speed psi or temp and mileage to worry

UCI Pro mechanics all said that glue is better because tape will roll off. Also, these same mechanics will put three or more layers of glue on both the tire and wheel.

@@shannontrainer5857 good for them ! if i become a UCI Pro I will be sure to ride whatever I am given. Seeing as I am 60 years old, I somehow doubt I will put my bike under the kind of stress that requires glue. The problem with these recommendations is that for the average rider, it is an unneccessary expense, straight up. Just like using top line drivetrains. oooh! they are so light !! oooh ! do you get paid to ride? ooooh ! you can affford to because you do not pay for replacements as they quickly wear outmost cyclists are not UCI pros. sorry to burst yer bubble, Richie Rich

@@jen3800 And yet, you justify tubulars, which is the same as justifying top-of-the-line groupsets.

@@shannontrainer5857 Riiiiiiiiight that's why lots of cross riders just tape. You're everywhere in this comment section spouting utter bollox. If you don't like tubular that's fine but don't for a minute think that people who've ridden tubs for decades don't understand the trade offs. You seem very invested in telling everyone who awful tubs are.

@@grob011 Actually, they use glue, and they apply multiple layers over several days. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q7mJaLuQxL7Sm6s.html

Old and fast, OK I'll take that!!

No not really. The wheel is generally 200g lighter. A good tub is around 250g. A good tyre is about 180g, + tube of 70g is the same. The glue weighs next to nothing, 5g? So the tub wheel set up is always going to be lighter.

I thought glue was more like 30g for both wheels. And if you are going to race clinches, then Conti Supersonic or Vredestein latex are 50g (and now you can have pvc 30g tubes from Eclipse and others). Also you can use Tufo Calibra Lite, they are under 150, so now the difference is 100g for the whole set, that's what I have here. What about rolling resistance and aero? Clincher/tubeless have an edge there that the weight won't compensate... But I'm still considering tubulars, because I've found a nice offer for a ridiculously light set, so I might give it a try. And I'm a weight weenie after all! Weight beats function xD

Well a tube of glue is 25g and I use less than 1/2 for 2 wheels, so 12.5g, but most of that is diluant which evaporates so it can't be more than 5g. 50g + 150g is 200, so 50g lighter than a good tub, but the downside is it will be more fragile. Much more fragile. And likely to puncture. Aero? What is the aero difference? None that I can see. Rolling resistance is VERY similar. Try them, you'll like them.

Don't forget the spoke / wheel tape for a clincher too...10g?

Rox ultralites are 3g for the pair, maybe 5 or 6 for kapton tape. But the difference is small

What? Even more weight? 😁

Not true. I tried all of them and definitely prefer tubular, which I have been using for several years now. Tubless are heavier, can failed on long hot descents as well and can deflate as quickly as the clinchers and are not ridable when puncture. Tubulars are best!

@@murcielago188 And when you get a flat, you better have a support car following you.

@@shannontrainer5857 this is false and a myth. You carry a lightweight tub which is the same size as a butyl innertube. But you most likely will not need it as most of the time you can just put some sealant into the tub and rotate to seal.

@@dickieblench5001 You're wrong. You can't glue a tubular in the field and continue riding. You have to have either a support car following you loaded with pre glued wheels and tires, or you get a cab or Uber ride home.

@@shannontrainer5857 you just carry a previously glued spare tub which you put on and pump to high pressure. Then you ride home carefully without pushing it on the corners

I do stretch mine!