5 REASONS WHY S-CINETONE MAY BE BETTER THAN S-LOG 3 | Sony A7IV

  Рет қаралды 11,914

Michael Perryman

Michael Perryman

Күн бұрын

In this video I go over my 5 reasons why I believe S-Cinetone may be better than S-Log 3 in some situations. I show real world footage of both profiles in both my personal and client work.
Equipment used:
Sony A7IV
Sony 24mm 1.4 GM
Sigma 24-70 Art
Tamron 70-180
Instagram @MPERRYMANPHOTOS
EMAIL: MPERRYMANSTUDIOS@GMAIL.COM

Пікірлер: 79
@mohammedal974
@mohammedal974 Жыл бұрын
the base ISO for pp11 is 125 and 500
@noheadlights
@noheadlights Жыл бұрын
S-Log files are not larger than stuff recorded in the other picture profiles. The resolution, framerate, color bit depth, and compression determines the file size. Picture profile has no influence.
@orangerecords_studio
@orangerecords_studio 3 ай бұрын
I watched som of his other stuff, "revew" here too, shit guy does not know anyting about cameras or videoshooting.
@TP-Fotografie
@TP-Fotografie 8 ай бұрын
Great video Michael.
@thomasburkl
@thomasburkl Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your thought on S-Cinetone. That's exactly what I was looking for. I want to document my landscape photography, and don't want to spend much time on the video processing side. S-Cinetone sounds perfect for that.
@danielshepherd7306
@danielshepherd7306 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your video, I'm about to watch the rest of it, but please remember to keep audio levels consistent, with intro volumes reduced and and speech audible. I had to turn up my volume to hear you at the beginning, but then your intro came in at 5 times the volume, making me jump for the volume again, but just as quick your into was over and I have to put the volume up again. Ta.
@johnmarkreed
@johnmarkreed 9 ай бұрын
Feel you on this. Nice video
@leighmosley7873
@leighmosley7873 5 ай бұрын
Great video. Succinct and on point.
@decarlismadison369
@decarlismadison369 20 күн бұрын
Thank you for this video
@danielshepherd7306
@danielshepherd7306 Жыл бұрын
I like seeing your journey, subbed. I have the Panasonic S1H which has nice 10bit Vlog, and also a little Sony ZV-1with only 8bit, so I quickly decided to shoot in Slog-2, which is very similar to S-cinetone for noise and image, and for a quicker turn-around, I can already see why this S-cinetone is a valuable option.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the sub, that Panasonic is a beast and ive also been considering getting the ZV as a walk around cam. How is it?
@nyambe
@nyambe Жыл бұрын
Slog3 is just a tool to maximize the dynamic range of the sensor. Is best in scenes with high dynamic range or when you want flexibility in post but you don’t need to use it. You are right, people are using for simple scenarios that really don’t need it.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Exactly, ive seen so many creators tell people that they should only use S-Log and im like why??
@426Studios
@426Studios 10 ай бұрын
Just one reason why you should use Slog3, and not just Slog3 but all log profiles not just for Sony Cameras but all cameras that has Log: Color Management. With Log profiles, you can easily color manage and mix and match cameras. And this reason tops all reason you can think of
@nyambe
@nyambe 10 ай бұрын
@@426Studios Sure, but once you have your LUT, you can use it your it in camera in a custom PPLUT. It is still Slog with all its benefits, cuts down on. I think people confuse comercial and creative work, with when you are just documenting real life. Slog offers more flexibility in post but it might come at the price of having to spend hours in post instead of getting it just right with a custom camera LUT or PP that you like.
@426Studios
@426Studios 10 ай бұрын
@@nyambe I am not sure on Premiere Pro because I already switched to Davinci years ago, but I can assure you in Davinci Resolve, you don't need to spend hours to get it right. There's RCM (Resolve Color Management) if you want to transform a log footage to Rec709 in a project basis. You actually don't to spend hours to get it right. If the lighting is wack, no matter what profile you are using, you still need to spend time to make that clip useable. With Slog3, it could be a lifesaver because you have more leeway on post.
@426Studios
@426Studios 10 ай бұрын
@@nyambe and I actually use Slog3 even if I am just documenting real life. Its actually very easy with Resolve Color Management. By the way, if the NLE you are using doesnt have color management, there are actually official LUT made by the manufacturer of the camera like official Slog3 to Rec709 LUT, Vlog to Rec709 LUT, Clog to Rec709 LUT, etc. You can use them to immediately transform your image to rec709 not just during the shooting but also on post. As for shooting, there are tools included in your camera so you could actually see what the image looks like. For Sony, it's called gamma assist so you could get it right from the start of shooting.
@mattyjmogul
@mattyjmogul Жыл бұрын
Much respect from ATL as well. I follow you on IG. Just got the A7IV recently & coming from Canon its a WHOLE nother beast! Thanks for breaking it down in real terms so others new as well as those of us who may shoot other sensors can grab. I am down for more content & yes on the dual ISO as well.#PP11AllDayEveryDay lol
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching! I love the A7iv and will have a good chunk of videos coming soon. Bless 🙏🏿
@TopflyghtTV
@TopflyghtTV 10 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@Potchekansky
@Potchekansky Жыл бұрын
I was gonna reply on that Facebook group but I think leaving a comment here would help out your video more =] So as of recently I've stopped ETTR on Slog3, just regular 0 exposure and I'm using the Gamma Assist feature on the A7IV, so I don't have to look at a washed out display. In order to get my footage down to rec709, I do my grade and at the end of the chain I put a Phantom LUT (or DaVinci's Color Space Transform node). I'm pretty happy with the results it gives me. Nice video though, I'm gonna follow your advice and try out S-Cinetone just to have a play around
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, and commenting here as well. I have an S-Log workflow very similar to yours. I still find that going to s-cinetone for talking head and vlog stuff is great. That way the cinematic stuff shot in S-log can still stand out. Bless 🙏🏿
@elmono3939
@elmono3939 9 ай бұрын
True words !
@Orvulum
@Orvulum 6 ай бұрын
Cool on S-Cinetone! Don't know about the A7IV, but with the A7rV, you can shoot S-log with Gamma Display assist to see in camera, pretty much what the image will look like after applying the Sony S-log LUT in post. In post, you can use the LUT as a starting point and then go from there... Using S-log doesn't always make sense, especially in low light, but when exposed optimally, the wider dynamic range is definitely nice to have!
@adan_lexin
@adan_lexin 10 ай бұрын
Appreciate this brother. I started with S Cinetone then switched to SLog3 and immediately didn't like it ... going back to S Cinetone
@fnthm
@fnthm 3 ай бұрын
Thanks for this video, it relly helps!. Contrary to what you said in 4:23 I've tried 13 second 120 fps, 1 video SLOG3, and 1 video (same scene) with S Cinetone, and both videos size are exactly the same.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios 3 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching, and yeah that is correct and I was incorrect at the time of this video. Unfortunately I compared files that were shot in 24fps vs 60 fps. Bless! 🙏🏿
@fnthm
@fnthm 3 ай бұрын
Ok! 😅@@Mperrymanstudios
@labrostraveller
@labrostraveller Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this informative and very helpful video. I use s-cinetone too and i add a little saturation. Also, i do a little sharpening. Do you?
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching 🙏🏿. I also add saturation, sharpness and a little contrast. It has cut off tons of time in my workflow.
@JBanksPhotography
@JBanksPhotography 11 ай бұрын
Nice video
@andystarkeymedia
@andystarkeymedia Жыл бұрын
6:36 You've put the specs for a7s3 on the screen not a74. a74 for S-Cinetone is 125/500
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Youre 100% correct, thank you. I remember the first time I tried and I wondered why there was no option for 100 on the A7IV. 🙏🏿💯
@andystarkeymedia
@andystarkeymedia Жыл бұрын
@@Mperrymanstudios Well taken sir. 💫
@DerSeewolf75
@DerSeewolf75 4 ай бұрын
i am using the new sony A7Cii and i am very very happy with this powerfull cam.. Sony Rocks! i am using standart and i a very happy about it! no SLOG needed!
@WarrsSnooker
@WarrsSnooker 10 ай бұрын
I am a proud owner of the a 74, I have zero knowledge on colour grading and have become overwhelmed with information trying to learn. This video made me feel okay with everything. Yes I will now use picture pro for 11 and just enjoy my camera do you know anything about film convert?
@GitHitMovie
@GitHitMovie 9 ай бұрын
Sir video editing best monitor??
@TLOverlander
@TLOverlander 6 ай бұрын
Does Sony not have a LUT for s-cinetone? Shoot in S-log and apply the LUT in post?
@jeffoberg685
@jeffoberg685 6 ай бұрын
They do, it's the s709 lut
@TLOverlander
@TLOverlander 6 ай бұрын
When you shoot S-cine in camera, do you shoot 8 bit (because the profile has less dynamic range)? Or 10-bit to give you more adjusting room in post?
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios 6 ай бұрын
Definitely shoot 10 bit, because I almost always still want to play with it in post.
@TLOverlander
@TLOverlander 6 ай бұрын
n3716 10 bit S-cine smaller file size compared to S-log 10 bit I'm assuming?
@markshirley01
@markshirley01 Жыл бұрын
Do you shoot 10 bit in s-cinetone
@yassersaeed2010
@yassersaeed2010 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video. But your information about file size is incorrect. Picture profiles has no effect whatsoever on file size, meaning your file size will remain the same if you shoot in S-Log 3 or without any picture profile.
@426Studios
@426Studios 10 ай бұрын
I just want to point out the misconceptions regarding exposure. Gerald Undone actually explained this comprehensively but unfortunately due to a very long video, majority of his viewers skipped it over or missed these details. Anyways, Gamma (Picture profile) don't create noise. ISO does. So for example, Sony a7s3 S-Cinetone base ISO of 100 has the same noise of A7s3 Slog3 Base ISO of 640. The difference is that S-Cinetone is still at rec709 space so it has a higher contrast vs Slog3 so the noise of S-Cinetone lives differently in the image because of its higher contrast. Gerald Undone actually explained and tested this on this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z9d6i9mpqazHiXk.html&ab_channel=GeraldUndone at this part "Gammas Dont Create Noise", "Shadow Recovery Comparison", and "Note on Noise Floor". As for the proper way of ETTR (Expose To The Right), Gerald also explained the proper way at the "How to ETTR" part of the video. In summary for how to ETTR, you should only use your camera's native ISO if you really want a "clean" image then literally add light to the scene, or use a fast lens and open up your aperture so the sensor could receive more light or both. For lowlight scene that is adding more light or opening up your aperture is not an option, then use your camera's 2nd native ISO, which is at 12800 for A7s3 SLOG 3 then use an ND filter if ISO 12800 would result to too much overexposure. As to know how much light you should add if it is an option, then you should also know the middle grey of the profile you are using. For Slog3, middle grey should be at 41 IRE and add more light or open up the aperture more so that middle grey would be at around 55 IRE and making sure that your highlights arent blown out. Just a note though, overexposure is really not needed as long as you are using native ISO and the middle grey is at 41 IRE. Its actually clean
@antonisdavis2288
@antonisdavis2288 Жыл бұрын
any luts for scinetone?
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
S Cinetone will already have alot of color baked in so you dont want to go too heavy with a lut. I use a lut pack I purchased from another creator @ycimaging
@brianknight7208
@brianknight7208 Жыл бұрын
Subscribed. I love your thought process man. Scinetone, expose correctly, and worry about the other stuff.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thanks Brian I appreciate the sub, and im already editing another one coming soon. 🙏🏿 bless
@JoshConnectMedia
@JoshConnectMedia 6 ай бұрын
Why PP11? THE PPs are from 1 to 12 or ... so you can adjust any of the PPs to your color matching right? hehe .Just asking for those who might be confused as others are talking about PP2 and others talking about PP 1. It could also be pretty useful if you could walk viewers through on how you set your S-CINETONE UP on your camera. Seeing is believing.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios 6 ай бұрын
PP11 is already set to be S-Cinetone by default.
@JoshConnectMedia
@JoshConnectMedia 6 ай бұрын
@@Mperrymanstudios Gotcha . Thanks
@googleruinedyoutubeforever9126
@googleruinedyoutubeforever9126 Жыл бұрын
your intro and outtro audio sound is way higher than your video
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thanks for that info, have a blessed day.
@truevinefilms7189
@truevinefilms7189 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video bro so helpful I was shooting in HLG
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching my guy! Bless up 🙏🏿
@truevinefilms7189
@truevinefilms7189 11 ай бұрын
@@Mperrymanstudios Thank you and GOD Bless
@parsahafezi492
@parsahafezi492 Ай бұрын
2gb per second?
@musicengineersfilms
@musicengineersfilms Жыл бұрын
I found slog3 have noise even it's correct exposure but s-cinetone is awesome. I tried a lot with slog3 but don't why s-cinetone is very clear.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
In S-Log 3 I usually overexpose all the way up to 1.7 to get clean footage, but S-Cinetone no need.
@musicengineersfilms
@musicengineersfilms Жыл бұрын
@michaelperryman3716 I do 1.7 mm but in low light it's hard to do ...like little noise appears.
@426Studios
@426Studios 10 ай бұрын
This is a misconception. Picture profiles doesn't affect noise floors, ISO does. Gerald Undone actually demonstrated this on his a7s3 review. It's a very comprehensive review but you should watch it properly or you will misunderstand.
@426Studios
@426Studios 10 ай бұрын
So here's the misconception: You need to overexpose Slog3 to have a clean image. Real answer: You actually don't. Instead, use the native ISOs and make sure you exposed properly. For low light situation, use the 2nd native ISO. And this is the 2nd misconception, and most likely due to the misunderstanding of Gerald Undone's video: how to expose properly. ISO actually doesn't expose the image. It doesn't make the sensor receive more light, instead it adjusts gain, meaning it digitally increases the brightness of the image, does creating more noise, no matter the profile used. Instead, you should add more light to the scene if the image is too dark, or use a fast lens and open up your aperture to receive more light. And here comes the 3rd misconception. Noise. ISO is actually a gain. It increases brightness digitally so no matter what the profile is, the higher the ISO you use, the noise it gets. It's best to watch properly Gerald Undone's a7s3 video but to explain it, they actually have the same noise. For example on a7s3, ISO 80 for pp off has actually have the same noise vs ISO 640 for Slog3. It's because that's the native ISO for both profiles. Also they actually have the same brightness. The difference is that PP off (rec 709 including Cinetone) has a lot more contrast baked in vs Slog3 even when transforming the Slog3 to rec709. Because of this, the noise floor is already pushed down on rec709 profiles but at the cost of dynamic range. For lowlight situations, most likely you'll have crushed shadows and overblown highlights whereas Slog3 will have more information on those areas. Due to this, the noise floor for Slog3 is at 10 IRE so noise will be more noticeable if you zoom in the image. Now, try matching the rec709 shadows to a properly transformed Slog3 (transformed either by CST or Sony's official Slog3 to rec709 LUT) . Because rec709 has already a lot of contrast baked in, to match Slog3 you will raise the shadows in rec709 profiles, then the noise will become noticeable because you also raised it's noise floor. Conversely, if you try to match Slog3 with the uncorrected rec709, you will push down the shadows, thus also pushing down the noise floor so the noise won't be noticeable anymore.
@Bathingwookie
@Bathingwookie Жыл бұрын
I can always tell when something isn’t film in slog3. It just blows all the other PP’s out of the water. If you’re good at grading then you wouldn’t even sniff at the other PP’s 😂
@rghurst
@rghurst Жыл бұрын
Why do people put that extra syllable in "videography" and "videographer"? It "vid-e-ah-graf-er" not "vid-e-O-ah-graf-er" ... just sayin'!!
@nyambe
@nyambe Жыл бұрын
Flow.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the valuable input my guy 🤦🏿‍♂️
@truevinefilms7189
@truevinefilms7189 11 ай бұрын
And the HLG footage is so saturated.Hard to grade didn’t look very good not sharp. Yeah man S Cine is the way to go
@dedidude
@dedidude Жыл бұрын
NOPE
@Bathingwookie
@Bathingwookie Жыл бұрын
S-Cinetone is for people who can’t grade.
@Mperrymanstudios
@Mperrymanstudios Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info. Stay blessed 🙏🏿
@Pfagnan
@Pfagnan Жыл бұрын
People who can’t be bothered to grade OR don’t have the time to grade. There, I fixed it for you!! 😊
@orangerecords_studio
@orangerecords_studio 3 ай бұрын
noserious filmshooter, videopgraper, recomends Cineton eover Slog. You look a LOT of dynamilc range, and NO, the files does not get smaller...........why people make such bullhit .
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