500-year-old Bishop’s Throne? Maybe Fake High Gothic 15th or 16th century “French Antique.”

Рет қаралды 1,368

2 жыл бұрын

SOMEONE HAS NOW COMMENTED THIS PIECE IS LIKELY A GOOD FAKE. It was never for sale in any case, being in the flat for years and having received many compliments - I finally took it for a real one although my specialty is not furniture from this very early time. Someone whose specialty it is has now indicated this is probably not real (not a copy, but a fake, designed to fool). Will have to consider deleting video - but will take the time now to share with renaissance period/gothic experts/dealers. Apparently, I didn't go to enough trouble for due diligence since this is the one piece I've featured which is not mine nor for sale. Just goes to show that with pieces from this very early time serious expertise and experience are needed.
Rare but not unheard of are examples of gothic period furniture which have survived to the present day. This oak cathedra or bishop’s throne is an example of high gothic / early renaissance period furniture from around the year 1500. Dating pieces from so far back is more ambiguous than more recent and usual period furniture, hence we might date it to the first half of the 16th century. I mention the 1490s in the video as a way to highlight the gothic period decor we still see on this piece even though it probably dates from the early French Renaissance (early 16th century).
Without being a specialist in this type of rare furniture from the past, I wanted to be sure to preserve online what might be the only example of such a period cathedra I ever personally encounter. Scientific analysis of the wood would probably be necessary for us to truly conclude that this is a Period piece and not an elaborate 19th century fake or copy. Nevertheless, this piece presents the essential signs of late gothic period authenticity and a number of experts have informally concluded that it’s a “good one.” This piece is also not for sale, so for educational and show and tell purposes I think it makes the cut...
Many thanks to all viewers and subscribers,
Cole

Пікірлер: 21

@danielvanackere7364 2 жыл бұрын

The 19th C. Forgers were masters at reproducing gothic furniture. They used methods nowadays unused by restorers as it is a lost craft. They would use old matured timber quartersawn and amongst other procedures, dip the pieces in ball bearings to get that closed grain and authentic sheen. However this method did wear on the corners and edges where there wouldn't ordinarily be any. On this particular example the rear has wear which shouldn't be the case. It should be uneven due to the adze work. But no wear. Also the legs are too short and this squat stance started in the Georgian period. Original gothic chairs would sit much higher and often had a drawer or box structure underneath the seat. This piece looks like a mixture of gothic elements and a Baroque brustolon chair. It is an interesting and excellent quality gothic revival piece.

@MyersMonroe 2 жыл бұрын

Let this comment be the verdict on the piece - I may delete the video entirely and re-make it next time I'm in Paris. I wanted to video this piece and really should have checked with more true specialists in this rare period before spreading misinformation. I even know basically how thoroughly these were faked - so I should have known that a few people in art who complimented it and said it was "good" was not enough to conclude that it is authentic (I will add in my defense that this piece was never for sale at least). As you describe, it is very different than a normal 19th century reproduction (this one meticulously made to appear older than it is). You mention adze work - what do you think of the renaissance period two tiered armoire I found in a barn near Nevers and have a short video of? Do you think I should delete this video or leave title changed with your comment pinned? Thank you!

@MyersMonroe 2 жыл бұрын

Also, luckily much of what I deal in is highly eccentric 1st half of the 19th century stuff which presents nowhere near the same risk of forgery - And 17th century 18th century regional works. The one time I ventured into this older period professionally was on the aforementioned renaissance two tiered buffet/armoire.

@danielvanackere7364 2 жыл бұрын

@@MyersMonroe you have been completely honest in the title and this example is a great piece for students to learn from as it is atop quality 19th C piece I would leave the video. Or do another on it. Its a beautiful work of art. Whichever period

@danielvanackere7364 2 жыл бұрын

@@MyersMonroe the armoire or meuble a deux corps you have is a beautiful example and from the lyonnaise school. Circa 1600. From what i can see it looks all original and has a lovely rich patination. It definitely looks an authentic renaissance piece incorporating some of the most desirable features with the bold gadrooning on the drawers and fluted pillars and an overall truly elegant design. All of your pieces are excellent quality

@RenaissanceEarCandy Жыл бұрын

I adore gothic and gothic revival stuff

@danielvanackere7364 2 жыл бұрын

Nice to see a video on the subject. Compliments on the quality stock of furniture you carry. Excellent!

@MyersMonroe 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you - this video would be really interesting to show this masterful bygone forgery work of the 19th century - I'm glad you commented here as even though I prefer the pieces to be "good" - part of the goal here is to document them and make them available to see. I'm a little disappointed with myself as I know that even major museums have discovered their renaissance/gothic period pieces to be fakes - so I made the video disregarding the absolute prudence I feel in the face of such pieces, considering a. my lack of true expertise and b. the virtuosity of the forgeries.

@kiribati9393 2 жыл бұрын

love your chanel ! Thank you for sharing your discoveries, just a tiny detail , it's not fleur de lys but hermine

@MyersMonroe 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you - I am glad to know as it didn’t feel right to say fleur de lys- knew the piece needed a video but am not at all well versed in this type of furniture!

@ylezama-artes1919 2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if you are in France because if you are it must be a dream came true, l always wanted to be in France, Italy, Denmark, Finland and all over Europe, dream, dreams some of them hard to make them real. Anyway l am so happy you are there because eventhough for work l do hope and expect you find the time to visit all those amazing places. Perhaps you can make some videos of the places you visit. Is a way for me to think l am seeing a little bits of a country most dear to me, because l am certain that in my past life l was a French not duda(?) about it. Please videos of around those gorgeous furniture. Bits of the places where you find them.

@mcRydes Жыл бұрын

real or not this is still a great piece of furniture -- a true work of art! Well uh I find the dying saints a bit ugly tbh, but everything in it's place. I'm glad you didn't take the video down.

@MyersMonroe Жыл бұрын

Yes - figured it might as well stay up - and I found a much more beautiful cathedra recently which is on its way to Germany now - will at least post a picture of it. It’s on the gallery Instagram in photos if you want to see it (no dying saints).

@danielvanackere7364 2 жыл бұрын

The "Santa claus" is a representation of an artisan not unlike Adam Kraft's self portrait or Claus Sluter's Daniel. These portraits were usually found on grand stone altarpieces or the pillar capitels in cloisters.

@dyinteriors 2 жыл бұрын

It is a very handsome piece, although it has little comfort which was an ecclesiastical approach to design in the 16th century. I love the carving, but even more, I love the oxidation and patina of the back of the chair. Stunning signs of age and pit sawn wood. Gorgeous! This video was obviously filmed in France, may I inquire where? Cheers my friend and keep the wonderful content coming. I love it!

@MyersMonroe 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed the video, and good point per lack of comfort ...This piece deserved a video despite my lack of experience with this rare period. Also yes - France of course and specifically the video was filmed in Paris !

@attilathehun1107 2 жыл бұрын

A nice presentation my friend,but imho this piece is from the time of Francois ier. Give or take few years. Sadly its been over cleaned. A nice piece nevertheless. Either the maker was a well travelled guy or indeed he was an Italian origin. The figures shows some Lombard influence.

@MyersMonroe 2 жыл бұрын

Yes - 15th century attempted dating was a real Hail Mary... its ~500 years old, but having now made the video and thought about the piece its very clearly first half of the 16th century, early 16th maybe but not circa 1490.

@maximmosharov4746 Жыл бұрын

Does not seem to be 16 century, forms and style is off. Carvings are too clean, probably close to 1880s gothic revival. No wear on the back or rails. This chair should be pretty well worn on front of the seat. Legs are seem to be off as well, whole piece just seem wrong. It seems like old pieces of wood were taken from old barn and constructed to make something that victorian's thought that 16/15 century chair should look like. I don't even see wormholes, whole chair should have been riddled with them. Could it be made for a child? Nice video though.

@MyersMonroe Жыл бұрын

Yes it’s a piece that’s been in a place I stay for decades - finally did a video on it and you as well as other viewers have rightly identified it as very fishy. Although some parts could be period - it’s likely an oddball fake.