That joke was so bad it broke the Geneva conevtion.

Legend man.

@@matsv201😂

good one 🤣🤣

😂

They pilot can speed up the descent at their discretion...

@@KimonFrousios laugh a little once in awhile ; )

@@dmatthews7423 - Hey, if we're going for gallows humor why hold back?

This happened over the Atlantic and the plane glided 75 miles from 35,000 to a safe landing at an airport on a small island...Air Transit Flight 236!!! Craziest story ever, I think it is more impressive than Sully on the Hudson.

Girl to salesman: "do you have transparent nail paint?"... Salesman: "sure, which color do you want?" ............ seems the same salesman later on decided to become ATC

Thanks for sharing your story. That one liner has to be remembered! 👍😂😂😂

I don't understand 'Tuesday position '.

@@KayAteChef instead of numbers on the clock face a digital watch might have days highlighted on the clock face

@@KayAteChef it is for peeps who are completely unfamiliar with analogue clocks nowadays… it is kind of a joke. 😃

digital watch --- funny !

I bet there was a flood of emotions once he was stopped.

That's probably what saved his life.

Get real, you simply fly your plane. You make some plan, you go for it. What else? Nobody likes a pilot in panick, if it happens, everybody reassures him/her, it is a normal reaction: and now drop the nose, so push, and kick the rudder, stop the spinning, and pull up gently, you can do that. Great, you regained control, you did it. We'll debrief later. Well done! That is how pilot world is. Aware of what can happen, prepared for things that could go wrong, so the solution is available already,

On the med' cruises, the radios would light up at night with all kinds of zany crap... From the "monkey guy" to animal sounds and arguments between ships and air craft in convoy, you never knew what you were liable to hear! ;o)

Can anyone pls explain what is going on with this meowing? I don't get what happened there.

@@JankoWalski-hz3lu from what I found around, just guard frequency things. Guard frequency should have proper uses, being silent for all the time except special cases like lost communications and all, or like the Chinese vessel contacting the US aircraft (which by mission, both would obviously be on different frequencies and wouldn't talk to each other), but it turns out guard is like the 4chan of the airspace and such stuff just happens.

@@Kalvinjj "Guard, uh, finds a way..."

Do I look like a cat to you, boy? You stop laughing right meow!

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas!

I edited Kelsey’s last two vlogs, so much appreciated ! Merry Christmas !

@@ErwannKerroch84 And we’ve appreciated all the work that goes into this channel! Cheers

Merry Christmas to you! 🎄❤

TBH.. I reckon its a fair instruction from ATC. I aint an aviator of course.. but to me thats a command to keep flying the plane.. 👍🤝

@@TheScotsalan There was probably terrain, but the poor pilots are going to be losing altitude all the while! Not going to make landing any easier! :)

@@charlotteinnocent8752 Reckon there is always terrain 😳.. the ground. Anyhow, still dont think its a bad instruction from ATC.. it bought some time perhaps. I just feel, not sure why, that sort of instruction will focus the pilot on keeping the plane aloft. I totally expect to get ratioed here of course.. no prob 👍🤝

Training, man. Training. Specifically, training that is as close to the real thing as possible, while also being as difficult and complicated as possible. There are a lot of people who think that kind of training just teaches people how to fail, but it ignores an old maxim--there are a thousand lessons in defeat, but only one in success. Failing in a simulator has far fewer consequences when compared to failing in real life would. Plus things like Crew Resource Management help, too. That pilot was able to focus on flying and communicating while his co-pilot was running numbers to figure out their descent speed and flight time. It's a practice that I wish showed up in other fields, too, just because of how it goes a long way toward preventing mistakes in judgement.

@@nightrunnerxm393 he did the right communicate aviate and navigate the three things kelsey talks about

@@jamesgardner578 Those are the three important things but the order is essential. First aviate, then navigate, and only then communicate.

Sully steel nerves

@@nightrunnerxm393 Exactly

When the controller gave them the instruction to maintain three thousand the pilot would not know why. They might guess that it was related to terrain or obstacles but they wouldn't know for sure. It would have helped if the controller had instead told them that 3,000 feet was the minimum safe altitude and explained that it was because of towers. This aircraft was unable to maintain altitude and that information may have helped, including the height of the highest tower which I assume was far less than 3,000 feet. Based on comments here from controllers it sounds to me like the 3,000 foot clearance was CYA for the controller. If the pilot hit something the controller could say I told him not to descend below 3,000 feet. I understand that, but it seems like for a plane that was not able to maintain altitude they could have provided more helpful information beyond the required CYA instruction.

@@StevePemberton2 emergency aircraft don't usually land at Lansing, or most aircraft as it is. They'd rather go to Grand Rapids or Pontiac.

@@tornadojames I have no reason to doubt that an aircraft with mechanical problems would prefer to land at the airports that you mentioned. However in this situation with no engine power the top priority was survival, which is primarily based on distance to the airport, runway length and runway direction. Emergency services would be another consideration, but not above the first criteria which is safely landing on a runway. The runway at Lansing is 8,500 feet which is why they initially attempted it, but being without power they could only reach Mason with its 4,000 foot runway, coming in fast and heavy they were not able to remain on the runway, but fortunately it all worked out okay.

Yup plane is still flying I see it every day. Funny he showed the aircraft 20WK when in reality the aircraft is N123RA.

Paragraph five is utter rubbish, we’re you the ATC Controller on watch that day?

Can you Hire Me For Asset Manager

Although I had only a few 10s of hours in GA and not holding my PPL or Bronze certification yet, I was surprised quite how calm I was when, during a lesson, we realised we had lost a pitot line; no ASI, altimeter, and ROC indicator made for an interesting termination of our flight; I asked the PS to take over as he was considerably more familiar withe the aircraft than I was! Thankfully the aircraft (a Falke) is nicely behaved close to the stall and we were able to make a totally uneventful landing.

This happened over the Atlantic and the plane glided 75 miles from 35,000 to a safe landing at an airport on a small island...Air Transit Flight 236!!! Craziest story ever, I think it is more impressive than Sully on the Hudson.

Happy Christmas and a happy new year brother

Merry Christmas!🌲

Suggest u don't fly in these small planes again.

I think the worst place to lose your engines would be on the initial climb after departure

@@Jeremyhawaii808 Anywhere once the wheels leave the ground...

Were the engines tied?

@@Jeremyhawaii808 yea but there’s a chance depending on airport that you still have somewhere flat to land Over a mountain range you’re boned

I’m a retired military controller. I agree with you regarding the altitude. I too would have given him the MSA altitude.

Yeah I figure it was probably something like that, but yeah I would have thought phrasing it as the MSA or instrucing them to maintain visual separation from terrain bellow 3,000 would have been more useful. After all that is basically the issue there that the controller doesn't know where the obstacles on the ground are and can't provide guidance to avoid them if the plane goes bellow that.

I'm sure that they are required to specify it. I think Kelsey's point was the wording, giving them an instruction that they already knew they couldn't literally comply with. And it seemed to be worded as a clearance not an advisory. This pilot presumably understood that there was a reason why they were being given minimum altitude, as other statements from the controller had made clear that the controller understood that they had no power. But Kelsey tends to comment on these things not necessarily that that he would not understand it, just pointing out that some pilots may potentially be confused by what seems to be a non sequitur instruction. Your wording sounds more fitting for the situation and would be more clear to any pilot in that situation, including single engine private pilots. As for the MSA I'm sure that it must have built in margins. Wouldn't it help the pilot to be informed what the obstacle is, building, terrain, antenna and also be told the exact altitude of what they need to avoid? I'm not saying they necessarily needed to offer that information beyond informing of the 3,000 foot MSA, but hopefully they have that information handy if the pilot states they may not be able to stay above 3,000 feet, then the controller can inform them about what it is that they need to avoid and where it is and the actual altitude.

@@StevePemberton2 The controller may not necessarily know what the highest obstacle in the sector actually is nor exactly where in the sector it is. They are not required to know that they only need to know the boundaries of each sector and the MSA within each. Also even if they did it may not help much there may be other obstacles of different types within the sector that are only slightly bellow the highest one so you could accidently give them a false sense of security if you tell them to look out for a mountain when they are heading for an AM radio tower in a different part of the sector or something.

@@seraphina985 we are not fully aware of the exact situation at t(at moment. Not included in this tape is other aircraft, other controllers etc. also experience level comes into this as well. While his life wasn’t on the line in that moment we have no clear indication as to the complexity and stress level he had beyond this video and he may have had 10 other people, controllers, pilots, and supervisors all demanding his attention. This could cause him to revert to basic programming for safety. We also don’t know his experience level, as I said, this may have been his first emergency and no matter how much training the first is always stressful.

Thank you sir. Well said and relayed!

You can schedule videos in advance to automatically "upload" (really, publically publish them). No need to work over Christmas.

Any time you can reuse...

What's A&P?

@@eekee6034 airframe and powerplant

@@googaagoogaa12345678 Oh I see :)

way more than a school for a&p techs i would rsther have an shop of experienced a&p techs 🤷‍♂️

Makes complete sense. You could be in a turn that feels like a climb.

@@TonyRule Or an acceleration that feels like a pitch up. The US Navy realized this was a problem after some planes pitched forward down into the sea almost at once. They realized the pilots were trying to correct a feeling of pitch up. So now pilots ride the catapult thrust with hands off the controls, Taking control only after the thrust is complete.

Based on quite a number of high profile engine-out incidents, it really seems as if having at least some glider experience in their resumé is something that would be handy for all major commercial pilots to have...? That really indepth understanding of aerodynamics & handling characteristics seems to add another super-effective tool to the toolkit if anythinv goes wrong! I don't know what costs are like, though - is it something that would be prohibitively expensive when student pilots are also working on getting their GA hours up...?

@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 It surely won't hurt and also be a fun part of the curriculum. I doubt, however, that a few hours in an aircraft built specifically for gliding really would make a difference when the day comes. Here in Germany PPLers train power off landings (to a runway) as part of their syllabus. I think that may be more useful as it better reflects the situation. A very different glide angle, maybe management and trouble-shooting of the dead engine, flaps, just a different beast. Also: Any self-respecting and -preserving pilot should have a keen interest in aerodynamics. But that may just be me :-).

I like that the pilot of the Air Transat one used to fly drug runs

​@@MsJubjubbird Robert piche.

The P-3 would shut down an engine after burning off some amount of fuel to increase endurance. However, I think they would restart it prior to landing.

@@oscarb9139 - Yes you are correct. And I talked to the crew afterwards and they had shut it down for their patrol but it failed to start when it was time to come back for their approach.

@@XLC-zd8dn I work with a number of former P-3 pilots, as well as most every other military airframe. Lots of cool stories.

@@XLC-zd8dn What aircraft type were you in?

@@oscarb9139 - An old T-33 RCAF. We kept them around as support aircraft and EW trg until the 90’s

Like how the US Coast Guard made its way all out to the Persian Gulf. The USA's coastline is even bigger than I thought.

Scheduling of videos means most of the people I sub to have posted over Xmas because they can upload it days before (or weeks) and set it to launch at any given time. It's a win-win solution for everyone.

@@JustAnotherBuckyLover yea I know, I run a couple of KZfaq accounts myself as a job, I was just acknowledging that it was nice to still have a video go live as a lot of people I follow skip Christmas.

@@ashleighsteaparty268 That sucks. Pretty much all of the creators that I follow have kept up a normal posting schedule, but I guess it just depends.

🤣😂🤣😂

Lol

Wow, that's a hell of a mission. Respect to your dad and his crew for correctly estimating the situation, planning properly, and getting everyone out safely.

Tldr

@@gayjoebiden "Too Long, Didn't Read" which is supposed to be a summary of the topic. Obviously I failed. 😂

A few years ago I was taking lessons in an LSA, an Ekolot Topaz. Even on a relatively short runway at a little regional airfield, most of my engine-out-during-takeoff plan was just "come back down onto the runway" - by the time we cleared the runway, we'd already be a good few hundred feet up. Absolute joy to fly, that plane. And mind you, that was a 1000lb plane with a 100hp engine. You're totally right, a good little LSA gives you so many more options.

ATC > Physics Can't crash land if you don't have clearance for it 😁

That controller is probably saying "maintain 3000" dozens of times a day every day, I suppose it just slipped.

probably habit. He might not have delegation below three thousand

There is a minimum high for each area to be clear of any obstacles. If he don't he had to be clear the the pilot are aware of any obstacles and visually see then. You don't see power-lines from the air you only see the supporting structures and sometimes it's misleading where the wires are.

It might be a slip, but ATC isn't supposed to add confusing input to an ongoing emergency

Ever since the movie came out. It’s been going on for awhile.

Didn't know Ron was a flight attendant between shows.

They're losing altitude, so your guess sounds good to me they knew they'f be below it.

I would think the controller would have advised them about an obstacle to watch out for, rather than just vaguely telling a pilot with no power to maintain 3,000 feet. I think Kelsey's explanation is more likely, 3,000 feet is probably the standard pattern there and the controller probably just said it out of habit.

Except as part of your energy management, of course. Really not good to come in super hot, when you don't have the option of a go-around.

How is that possible anyway? As soon as you lose thrust, you will begin to lose altitude, unless in a glider on a thermal updraft.

@@hoghogwild more precisely, never give up energy unnecessarily when you don't have working engines to give you more energy. You can trade energy back and forth between speed and altitude, you can deliberately dump energy (within limits), and ultimately you need to touch down with almost no energy left. The most extreme energy management I've seen was an old-school aerobatic pilot: turned his engine off, did a few aerobatic manoeuvres, and then landed pretty much immediately. Knew exactly what he was doing, and also he knew how to maintain a safety margin.

I mean, this was a mayday situation, so all clearances were pretty much off the table?

Cleared to 3000'is one thing, maintain 3000' is completely different

I agree, they can bust that all day long if they declared an emergency. Probably doesn’t matter in Michigan but they may have had terrain or obstacles they wanted to tell the pilots about with that clearance.

@@stevenbeach748 There's a number of transmitter towers reaching up to 2100 in that particular area. 3000 is also the initial approach/glideslope intercept altitude for the GPS approach to that particular runway, so habit may have been involved, too.

Yeah, standard emergency procedures, not trying to apply standard procedures to emergencies. That's just confusing and frustrating

@@alakani The whole point of emergencies is that they're non-standard. Thus, you can't really have any "standard" emergency procedures. You have to deal with the situation you're dealt with the way you're dealt it. We're animals of habit, and we do the best when in a situation we're used to. Thus, doing things as you're used to doing them, would lead to the best outcomes.

@@Henoik Sir I know you have a multi engine fire but that is no excuse to cut in line. Please go around or get a pen and paper to write down a number:p

@@alakani You need to understand that during an emergency, a controller's instructions more become "advise" than anything. We understand that pilots may be unable to carry out an instruction, even during normal operations. There is just so much we can do as controllers. If you bust the 3000 feet because you cannot maintain that altitude for whatever reason, then that is fair enough, but we cannot give a clearance that doesn't ensure separation from terrain or other traffic - even during emergency situations. The PIC needs to do what he needs to do, and we do whatever we can to make free room for you. Yes, it sounds weird to ask a pilot without engines to maintain an altitude, but "sounding weird" has never hurt anyone. Improvisation, however, has.

@@Henoik Luckily this was a very experienced pilot. I can only imagine how that kind of advice might have gone over with the student with an incapacitated instructor. Thankfully it's usually much more of a team effort in emergencies than this, and the student landed safely thanks almost entirely to a wonderful controller

There have been at least 3 cases of DEF contamination, in all 3 the DEF froze up at altitude, blocking the fuel lines, and flaming out one or more engines. Fortunately in all 3 cases the aircraft landed safely.

Wow! How does DEF get into jet fuel?

No oversight on the private side and overworked rampers with no support is a recipe for disaster. Forget about customer service, who is doing QC? Double check your fuel loads and sump your tanks.

@@trigonzobob They were putting a dewatering fluid (like Prist) in the tanks and used an empty DEF jug. Jet A can tolerate ZERO DEF.

@@richardshippful Why would there even be DEF in the same stores as the aircraft materials? Aircraft parts/materials are meant to be stored seperately from commercial items. Did this occur at a smaller airport where ramp workers service ground equipement or is DEF used in some smaller aircraft?

On the ground seems like a good spot.

I don't fly, but I watch Kelsey and Mentour Pilot, but between them, if I had to fly, I would feel much better.

I flew to Hawaii multiple times, long flight but I'm still alive... Just do it and enjoy

I hope you can overcome your fear and do it. I really want to go to Hawaii too! Maybe next year!

I believe the HI airlines have never had a crash. Look into it and book a flight! Piece of cake! Hawaii has good karma. You're good to go.

@@eyesea123 remember the one where the top of plane came off?

It would become a museum where it stopped

@@1972challenger maybe not, it depends. They could climb onto ground effect assuming there aren’t obstacle’s ahead, or they could tear the inside apart and take out a lot of weight like the USAF did with the C-17s. Those jets are worth tens to hundreds of millions depending of the variant, the operator will not abandon it without a fight to retrieve it first.

@Jesus Antonio come to think of it maybe it would be cheaper to buy the houses in the way, bulldoze them and grade out a runway to get that bird back in the air

@@1972challenger that’s the scorched earth policy 😂. It’d be a few homes at 500k each for a 100m dollar jet. It’d be hard to convince people to sell, and if you push too hard it’d be bad PR. That’d be tricky.

You would get a test pilot with large aeroplane performance qualification to negotiate with the FAA and agree the maximum weights and the minimum thrust required for the take off. Wind, atmospheric pressure, temperature and runway condition and extensions can be waited for.

Under a mayday, clearance should be "anybody with at least one functioning engine stay the hell out of the way of the emergency aircraft."

I think tthat the maintain 3000 was because of thats the height of the largest obstacle in the area.

@Joe Bramblett yeah, but maybe they'd have to call another ATC to make that call for them.

@@spartaleonidas7132 then that would be the absolute worst place to send a plane that can't even maintain altitude, much less climb.

@@kd5nrhThe minimum clearance is often a single piece of object like a cell tower. This may have been the towers best location that they can give him. I wouldn't look too deep into the phrasing of the towers responses - they know a plane without any engines really can't climb. Under a mayday call, the pilot can do whatever he needs to keep his plain in the air without towers authority. He may have to answer questions, but he was going to do that anyways.

I'm also surprised there were no interlocks to prevent all feeders from being closed at once.

There’s are several models of the Dassault Falcon, but they do appear to be able to take off from a 4,000’ runway. But your point is well taken, and I don’t know. I’m guessing an aircraft like this would have to have its wings removed, then trailered to a bigger airport.

@@pulpmysteryfan I presume he's talking about Kelsey's 74.

@@wessexdruid7598 correct

Probably not. If the plane is intact they might try to strip all of it’s interiors like the passenger seats, the overhead baggage container… etc to loose a lot of weight. Then using a specially trained pilot, they can try do short jump take-off with as little fuel as possible but enough to reach that bigger airport for refuel before heading towards the main maintenance hub.