With them., there is no such thing as doing something for nothing. There is Always an ulterior motive!

@jim You’re describing a very harmful covert narcissist I work with. 😮‍💨 Built her whole career on this type of fraudulence and fools most people-the ones she’s capable of keeping at arms’ length, that is.

I appreciate your take on this Cheryl. I found when I needed help with anything that required my N to inconvenience themselves, or make an effort or the slightest sacrifice, the help never came. Healthy people help through thick and thicker... And YOU actually benefit when they express boundaries if they can't help at times.. I'm learning this at long last and your comment definitely helps🙏☀️

Definitely the gift is a desperate attempt to win you back!

Wow! 4 adult children who ignore me; explained in a Nutshell; they would rather take photo of Food than be in the picture with me. WOW!

I completely undastand n relate to ur experience. I'm so sry that u endured that torture. N I truly pray that u also embrace this as a lesson n a blessn n let this experience help u get stronger

These exact things have happened to me! It's weird how the CN can seem so giving at times, on their terms, but when I'm in a crisis, nope. He will usually just ignore it, or once in a while, really blow up and get mean.

It’s really a heartbreak when it’s your mother

@@ashleyfowler1776 I'm so sorry...my mom was horrific, too.

Overt is obvious and easy to identify and excuse yourself or disengage immediately....the covert is hard to identify until the damage is done

Overts are like a shark coming at you. You can see its Fin. Coverts are snake in the grass people...and filled with poison.

You couldn't have described it better between these 2 main categories of narc behaviors👍🏻.I've 👀 a lot of narcs that behave like chameleons behaving in BOTH of these ways depending on the person/⌚/situation...The ones that lean more heavily into the covert behaviors are the worst though because they tend to fool more innocent people initially.You'll still 👀 the more subtle warning signs in not too long...But the trick is that you have to ALREADY be educated about covert narcissism in the 1st place,we still have a problem with awareness about narcissism in general & especially covert narcissistic behavior...Too many people still 💭 that all narcs are grandiose loud-mouths with a lot of overt behaviors.

Absolutely yes!!!! I was accused of being a narcisist in my marriage of over 31 years because of me Reaction to his bad behavior , irresponsiblity, and just the fact that he just loved to get you really upset. Unfortunately , I had no idea what I was dealing with until now. I am the exact opposite of narcisist. I hate conflict, arguements, and upsetting someone. He is the opposite of that , He actually gets off on upsetting people. It’s quite sick. I didn’t know what a passive aggressive covert narcissist was. So I never really even knew this man I spent more than half of my life with. He is the biggest keeper of secrets, lies about everything, constantly doesn’t do what he said he would do, and is very manipulative and deceitful. Had I found out what this PACN was years ago, I would’ve left years ago. Instead I kept holding onto hope , which was a false hope, because never once did he ever do one thing to improve himself. I did plenty of things and he tried sabotaging every one. He used my vulnerablities against me, and there was never any true intimacy in our marriage. How could there be, he’s a phony. I found out he started an affair with our hairdresser who works out of her house, made up all kinds of horrible lies about me, to make her feel so sorry for him. They love to play victim and love the attention they get from making up lies about their spouse. I also find that sick and if a man ever were to approach me and start up about how miserable his wife makes him, I would run like Forest. I feel like I married a chamelion, a fake, phoney , chronic liar. The more I learn about this covert type the more I go hmmm. They are dangerous people because they want to destroy you when you figure them out. Literally he is trying his best to destroy me by the end of this divorce.

Coverts are the types that are implicated in spiking drinks and sexual assault. An American college investigated narcs in the area of sex assaults happening on college campuses, and found covert narcs were more likely to be involved with this type of behaviour. 🤢 🤕 🤮

Yep! Well said Texas... And did you get called a control freak? I did, all the time... Crazy🙏☀️👍

@@sturobertson6791 ..control freak , OCD , neat freak ..just freaky all together 🤷🤷🤷👍

There’s something to be said about how they desperately need to control others, partly (I assume) to make up for what they can’t even control in themselves. Call it a “settle for” a second best plan.

@@aaronkwolfe "...never take your behavioral cues from the person in the situation creating chaos". I so wish they could figure out why no one wants to act like them. Cheers Aaron

Agree with you 100%, Patty! It so bizarre! It’s amazing how (at least for Americans) there are so many words attached to negative connotations. “Control” being one of them. When they cause the chaos crazy conversations, SOMEONE has to “take control” of the “out of control” to bring things back into order so that something/anything can actually be accomplished. Be the one to take control of the out of control conversation, even if asked nicely and kindly for it to stop and watch the fingers get pointed with accusations because they hang on the word “control” as a “bad thing.” It’s absurdity at its best. Try and take back control over one’s own life and get accused of trying to control the narcissist because we no longer will allow them to run all over us. Ridiculous.

That's a major red flag!

Absolutely 💯

Oh yeah, very well put!

That's my father.

I used to think that by being open and honest I was showing them that it is ok to be open and honest.

They try to spin yarns or concoct elaborate explanations or excuses when the truth is usually simpler & equally effective. Telling the truth is not taxing on the brain.

Good cause that’s who I am.

Oh I know when I used to tell my parents truth about things they wanted to hide they would look at me crazy like they can’t believe it that someone likes truth it’s wild

It's TRUE! One honest statement could mess up years of deception!🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂 heck yeah it's hilarious, watching them backpedal!

Yeah. The truth is their enemy. In contrast to this, how weird is it that they will conspire with one of their flying monkeys to deceive others, yet somehow believe that the flying monkey is trustworthy? Is it because they're telling the same lie?

That is a great way of thinking. I absolutely 💯 agree 👍

@@amandaliverpool3374 Thank you for your brilliant feedback, Amanda. Hope life's treating you extremely well, now, these times God bless you ✨☘️🙏

@@evelina787 I'm relatively well thanks. You're comment is short and, refreshingly, to the point. Take care 🙏

Indeed. There's no winning having them in your life best to move on, rip the tape off. Can't wait working very hard to get free.

You could work 17 hours a day in and outside the house, do all the shopping and cooking 7 days a week, and you’ll still be the one they can’t stand.

@@valeriemaltais1782 Really! That and more that I am sure you could never list all. And you are still abused. You are right. 12 years mostly done here and divorced, except for stalking and a move from that one now living a 2 min drive away and I believe I am still recovering from exhaustion.

@@Bawkr You are so right! Ripping the tape off...I will borrow that! It will be so worth it. For me, I worked hard for years and it never seemed the right time. One day when it looked like he was cheating again or probably more like STILL cheating, the anger came into me and I had him leave immediately. Get your things and leave. First he agreed, then actually became defiant (hx of violence in the home, too). I stood up for myself, even put my hand on his back to move him to the door (I don't recommend this boldness). He was passive aggressive with slamming the door each time when taking his things out. Yes it was hard. SO WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL DO IT!!!!!!

100%, they are extremely draining, when they were gone, I realized how long a season was. The absence were these huge holes that I had to fill with normalcy, my goals, responsibilities etc. They are walking demons and vampires nothing more!

Like living in a Twilight Zone episode. 36 yrs for me!

Yes, I've been here 31 almost & have my eyes open. Just how to deal with it is what I need.

@@melianelson9036 Including dating, almost 40 for me, 34 married. I ignored every red flag, and there were many. People even tried to warn me of her being controlling and manipulative. Until about a year ago, I never even heard of covert narcissism. I have been forced to study this subject so much, I could probably write my own book on the subject.

40years !!

Entitled to do anything they feel like. So crazy 😧

And they make promises that they know they won't keep...Empty gestures of goodwill 🙏

@@amandaliverpool3374 yes, Amanda💯🎯. Empty alright or just full of hot air with that smirk🤥

@@SewDiva5691 Cringe worthy 😬

While my (estranged, narcissistic) wife was still covert, she blamed all her paranoia on her Russian heritage. I did a lot of smoothing things out for her back then.

@@aaronkwolfeAh, so she admitted some sort of imperfection. Of course, It's never their fault 🙄

Preach, sistah! The contradictory word and actions is the bottom line giveaway for me. How are you btw, Siri?! I’m guessing that card never made it since i hadn’t heard from you?

They often say words that they think you would like to hear!

@@AlwaysStampinVideos Yup. I'm fine thank you.Thank you for asking. I'm taking care of myself. Staying clear in my self🌟 How are you, Kelly Jean? How was your Christmas? And how is your business going? You're right about the card. It hasn't showed up....I don't know what has happened, I just know it's not here. ❄️🌟S

@@siriastridkristensen4272 that really bums me about the card! I will try and send you another soon. I will let you know when it’s on its way. I’ll also ask at the post if they might have an idea what happened to it. I’m glad to hear you’re well and clear 💜! Our holidays were wonderful!!! My daughter worked on the movie, Avatar so it was fun celebrating her and her accomplishments. The business is on its way to getting closer and closer and i am an excited nervous wreck haha! Thx a million for asking, Siri!

@@AlwaysStampinVideos 🩶

Totally!! Well said!

Every kind of person suffering from narcissism spits on that idea and attacks it in good people.

exactly

Michael N - Thank you so much for your beautiful comment!

@@lovesings2us I second that! 🙏☀️

Maybe you were not narcissistic, maybe you just enabled, as I did. You're clearly reflecting, tho DON'T be too harsh on yourself. Narsasists are masters at making YOU think there's stuff WRONG with YOU, and make you think it's YOUR fault. It ain't necessarily so... Glad you are yourself again. onwards and upwards! Survive and thrive! Good luck to you Janice🙏☀️🍀

What Stu said

@@Feribrat99 ditto :)

@@sturobertson6791 She states it right, she doesn't say she's a clinical diagnosed version, she just states you or anyone else becomes just as abusive sometimes, it doesn't make anyone any better unless they learn not to repeat that mistake. Abuse can be easily bi-directional 50% in most cases, so could we just say someone isn't narcissistic arbitrarily based. I congratulate her on dropping off that harm she basically ran away with, that's a small victory for mankind.

@@nolamar1 Yea you rob the bank (figure of speech) but the one who pursue way you to help out should be to blame....... I think you do not want to stand too close for comfort. I don’t think the cops are going to let it slide. Unwitting or not still Abuse no excuse needed, what made her heal is take responsibility is the important note here.

My ex stepfather kept my stepsister and I apart. We new about each other for about 40 years! He would only tell me she'd visited after she'd been and visa versa. Needless to say we eventually met and kept in touch, a bit, and neither of us see him anymore. Both went no contact for our own reasons 🙃 🙂

Do not underestimate the lies that people around these people (actually) keep going, personally I think these people who enable the lies are worse than the liar themselves. U also recognise the idea that lies spawn where things get obfuscated, for example they want to check you out, but call every clarity question a (are you checking me?), so you start to doubt yourself, now you know who is running control issues, people who take stabs at someone else, I call these sampling for control, then they also keep these secrets around they aren't showing closure (but are taking stabs at others) still they take a random stab at people to gain control. I think it’s time people start to respect more open communication. Shutting things down only make it worst and these coverts would be more comfortable in their pernicious ways of being hidden, you create confusion, sense high conflict wen asking direct open communication Q&A be prepared this is when things will submerge into something else.

Yuuup! Well said, Stu. The secrets aren’t always about sexual encounters or money or “wrongdoings.” For some, just keeping the secret of their not wanting to dig deep inside themselves to discover past hurts as the reason why they inflict pain onto others is the greatest secret of all.

@@AlwaysStampinVideos When we were still together I discovered coke "hidden" in a drawer. I left it there and sat down with my partner and said something like "can we just sit here a while and have a really nice honest chat" , and I poured me heart out about a few things about MY flaws and vulnerable spots, and asked as reasonably as I could if she was still doing coke. I haven't forgotten it.... She looked deep into both my eyes, paused, and said slowly, no I don't, I've deleted all those numbers, and if I did, I'd tell you.... I'm thinking now when she was looking into my eyes, what she was seeing was her own reflection.... It's not a nice feeling being lied to like that..... Cheers Stampin, peace and honesty! 🙏☀️

@@sturobertson6791 After my marriage broke up, I learned that a person who hates you can look at you with warmth in his eyes and act friendly, but it was just an act for the other person who was present. I had no idea that I had been married to such a good actor.

@@faithworks217 Hi Earlana. Unfortunately toxic or narcasistic or abusive people CAN be good actors. That's exactly how they get away with it for so long and we fall for it. So sorry you've experienced this too. I hope you are out of it, free recovering, and finding happier times🙏☀️

Freedom!!

My narc hadn't filed income tax in ten years when I met him. I helped get it straightened out, but we separated for four years (long story as to why I'm back) and once again he stopped filing. The correspondence from the IRS is not friendly, and I think he's in deep do-do, but there's nothing I can do this time. Luckily we lived together and didn't marry or I'd be stuck with his problem too.

They love mind games. I told mine years ago that if he wants to play mind games then he has to play by himself because I never learned how to play. Of course he found other ways to be manipulative and controlling. I just kept maliabl and fluid to adjust to the changing tactics. He takes away the remote, I watch youtube, he takes away the money, I fix all vegetables. It kills him.

I had to tell that to my sister

Nicely said. Same for me. And when I found out about the addictions (alcohol , pot and coke).. the severity of them was still hidden. When I tried to "help".. It made not a jot of difference

@@sturobertson6791 Same for me. I was desperate to help him, but he denied that he had a problem. He even fooled professionals. As I have learned about the dynamics of narcissism I do see a lack of information on the direct connection of narcissism and addiction. Best to you, Stu.

Yes, the narc I spent 8.5 years with Deliberately kept information from me, and would say to Me " You don't need to know," or " It's my business quit being so nosy," when I just asked him what he was doing for the evening or had done the prior weekend ... And often he WOULD tell me at some point later ( and it was always something dumb or ordinary ) but he LOVED to keep me on edge, wondering and dysregulated. He KNEW it triggered me so did it Deliberately. When I completely ended things on 11-30- 2022, I said to him, " Now you don't have to hide or deny me knowing you more deeply, I won't be " bothering you" with my queries, because NOW Toad ( todd) I no longer give a f***. Bye. Be happy with no one having any interest in whether you live or die." And I blocked him. And Mr. " I don't need you, you're lucky I'm in your life" has gotten 3 new phone #'s and repeatedly attempted contact, baiting, future faking .. But, no. There's not even a trauma bond remaining. Once I'm done, I'm done. 👋👋🙌🤡

@@malibu90265 Hi J W. I think you've raised an interesting point about the link between N and addiction. I sometimes listen to Lisa A Romano on another YT channel, and she often talks about N's and addictions. All the best to you too J W... I'm surviving and thriving with you! 😢☀️

@@suzanne4396 you're a lesson for us all Suzanne. I'm done now too, it just took me a while. All the best 🙏☀️

Are you suspicious of your spouse if your spouse is cheating on you? Oh sorry, I knew how it hurts but guess what? This man can help you access your spouse's phone remotely without any stress and any traces, trust me 100% DM him now @Are you suspicious of your spouse if your spouse is cheating on you? Oh sorry, I knew how it hurts but guess what? This man can help you access your spouse's phone remotely without any stress and any traces, trust me 100% DM him now👆👆

I’ve been with my cluster b husband for 21 years, a dutiful co-dependent. I did what I could to protect my kids from his behavior. Now I think 3 of my sons are co dependent and are all choosing cluster b women.

@@valeriemaltais1782 Oh, I am so sorry. We often think we are doing the right thing by sacrificing our own happiness, unaware of the lessons we are modelling. Sigh. No judgment. These are impossible situations.

@@valeriemaltais1782 So frustrating when you are able to finally recognize the issues and the abuse that has been endured for so long and you are attempting to heal and then you watch the aftermath all play out with your children as they grow up enduring this now compounded situation. @Toam is correct. The situation really is impossible in so many different ways. Only silver lining (for me) is that I really hope I will be "bullet proof" (emotionally) for the 2nd half of my life. My true love is out there just hope fate leads me to her sooner than later. Thanks to all of you on here as well. Writing this and having fellow souls that understand read and respond is therapeutic gold to me right now. Grateful for you. TF

Strong 🎉❤

I am reminded of the movie “Invention to Lie.” Have you seen it? It’s interesting and thought provoking. Anywho, my personal take about secrets is the INTENT to “hide.” Is the intent to harm or help? The thing being hidden- is it mine to hide, or should i share? My take on the matter of secrets certainly isn’t the only take that matters but it’s what i have to go on for the time being.

@@AlwaysStampinVideos nicely said Stampin, that unpacks a tricky topic a little more. I know about the Ricky Gervais film "The invention of lieing" it's supposed to be a comedy tho I thought it a bit weird. To respond to your point, there's also the way of "deceit", which is done with mal intent. Also "twisting the story".. So you (or someone else) get told a version of something which ain't necessarily so. Quite uncomfortable to write about, actually... I grew up believing everyone to be honest and decent. My epic bad on that one. Take care Stampin 🙏☀️

@@sturobertson6791 exactly… like i said… to help, or harm. That deceit you speak of certainly falls on the harm side of intent. I agree about the movie. I was ready to laugh but ended up pondering way more than i cared to after watching. I think i may have been reminded of this particular movie because i can’t help but wonder- can you imagine if a narcissist spoke truth ALL the time and not just when they were ticked off at us like when your nex decided she was the authority over how you changed the gas bottle. (I am replying to that comment after replying to this one btw.) I i imagine them saying things like… “I’m upset and it’s all your fault.” I mean they already basically say those things… we just have to read between the lines. Anywho… you take care too, Stu!

@@AlwaysStampinVideos Hi Stampin. Yes! More nails you hit there... Help or harm... That describes the difference between our reality and their "reality" a healthy person's default state of intent is to help... We feel vvv uncomfortable when we know we've made an error and caused harm... To actually INTEND harm would put us in their world. In the first year or so of my relationship with my nex (I'm beginning to not like that word)... I was puzzled as to why she said VERY frequently "I don't tell lies". Also, her parents and brothers, unprompted, would say "Our daughter never lies / My sister doesn't lie... I remain puzzled to this day.... It's something I don't understand, maybe about " conditioning" between the Narc and their family You said..".. Imagine if they told the truth all the time... That's some thought!.. They'd have to be truthful to THEMSELVES first. And ten million out of ten for you to be able to answer 2 comments at once! 👏😊 Cheers Stampin. Happy thoughts to you💭👍🙏☀️

@@AlwaysStampinVideos I also meant to include your point when you said... "I'm upset and it's all your fault.." Totally agree... What I got a lot was "I'm angry because of you.." That then grew into... "My life is f***ed up because of you" I've digressed from" secrets" to "lies they tell themselves".. Much to ponder!! Take care Stampin, hope your day is a good one👍🙏☀️

They can pressure you to no end. Give them their way or else. I remind myself what toxic children they act like.

And being in tight control all of the time is exhausting so I gave up.

@@Elizabeth-yg2mg I've learned that you have to live your best life, and let them do WHATEVER ridiculous controlling they do.

I was very lucky - at least with a couple of counselors I encountered - Step daughter, as she was trying to eliminate me by any means necessary from the family, so she could grab all of her father's Estate without having to divide it between us (I Was the very stupid second wife [now divorced]) deployed, among many things, a smear campaign against me - to ANYONE she thought of - to any and all. So, she went to councelors with her father. Fortunately, after she and her father, having a few "therapy" sessions with the first councelor, telling the councilor that I was evil, etc. - decided to hear my side of what was going on, and invited me to go to counseling with her father/ my husband at that time without including the step daughter in the counseling. It took the counselor 3 sessions with her father and I, without the step daughter present, to figure out what was going on. The councelor asked her father/my husband, at the time, "So, how is it, "M", that your daughter has so much power over you?" And as she asked him/father of step daughter/ my husband at that time that question, her eyes got dark, as if to say - "I don't want to go there, and know the answer to that question that I just asked." (That is, "How is it, that your daughter has so much power over you?") His reaction to the counselor's question was priceless! And - the counselor decided right there, to say, "I don't need to see you anymore "M" for tberapy; I'm continuing with Ruth's therapy, though." So, since that didn't work with the first therapist, step daughter tried to go to another, second therapist to spread her smear campaign, etc. She and her father went to this second therapist and, perhaps because the second therapist was older, and more experienced, the therapist caught on at the very first session where I and step daughter's father/my husband, at that time, had a therapy session, without the step daughter present - and the therapist realized what was going on, right away. That councelor yelled at father/my husband at that time, and said, "I see you're trying to have things both ways - saying one thing, while doing another!!!" (Daughter grabbed power of attorney and was manipulating our/ husband and wife bank accounts, among other things, etc.) And, the councelor, who saw the manipulation of step daughter right away, also said, " You two don't need therapists, you need attorneys, and you, R/ me, should get your own attorney!!! That councelor was quite angry at the apparent manipulations of "M" and, esp. the step daughter, and cut "M" off entirely, from any further therapy sessions, just as the first councelor did. So, Dr.Carter, and Dr. Ramani are the very wonderful examples of what to look for in a councelor or social worker - these two are the Gold Standard of councelors!.

I hope this gets "registered" in the "Replies" section.

yeah. I went to counseling with my first wife and after working all day in an exhausting job id come home and help out in the home, wash dishes, change diapers, bedtime story... She did not work outside the home. The counselor said I needed to help out around the house more. So then I sent her off on a week long fishing vacation "to get away from her hectic life with the kids" while I stayed home with the babies. The house was never so clean and orderly and it only took me 4 hours per day. The rest was playtime alone with the kids. It was a blast. So the counselor implied that I was the problem and I proved to myself that he became her flying monkey.

@@wisconsinfarmer4742 How did we come so far into a time where marriage counselors became so clever. There's professionalism then there's what has occurred today...'un-professionalism'. Thanks for your story!

@@healthyquadrant6587 That was 40 years ago. I got sole custody a year later by not getting in the way of her party life. Once she got addicted to no responsibility she let me have the kids. And my ulcer went away.

I believe it's called baiting. They bait you with critical & abusive behaviors to get your reaction so they can play the victim when you attempt to defend yourself. When I started calling my narc out for this behavior it would send her into a rage while I learned to not react, just call it out as it was happening.

Yeah, when you react and they criticize you for it, they’re manipulating you so you’re disharmed. I could not stay… I’m sorry you have to deal with that!!! My sibling used to love to do that. I call it trigger baiting, first thing in the morning, he would say some unbelievably f ckd up thing to me: racist, sexist, you name it and when I react, I’d get in trouble as a child and when I was older, I tried not to react bc he was a sadistic lil devil and I caught his game. So what he did was found other methods, have other ppl who I don’t talk to attack me as a person.

@@samie7025 Sounds like my narc older brother, now 67, l have had enough, l can't believe l stuck it so long, giving him chances, well l am done now, after the latest baiting at Christmas, in my house!! Here is to all of us healing.

@@amandaroberts5111 🥂 Word! 🥲😭💔 It hurts to hear other ppl go through this, but glad when they get out of it. Narcissists so need to remain in therapy, change and do better too.

@@samie7025 , only if they choose therapy. My narc husband of 35+ years says he doesn’t need therapy. The denial is strong. I gray rock, laugh, and walk away when he starts the blame and shame game. I’m slowly learning, through Dr. C and Team Healthy, who I am! My self-esteem is coming back, and hopefully, my health will too. 🙏🙏

Hey Alindaartist.. How are you doing? Everyone here is with you🙏☀️🙏

@@sturobertson6791 Hey Stu!! Thank you for the note :) I've missed the team the last couple days. Really appreciate the greeting How are You doing?? :)

@@LindaLouise625 Hi Alinda and thank you for asking. I'm super calm.. Super NOT looking back in anger and thinking clearly for the first time in years. I saw a good friend today and he asked me how I was... Then I saw his face change.. He smiled, his eyes opened wide and he said.. Hey Stu.. I actually think I can SEE how you are! He had been telling me for maybe 5 years to RUN... (like everyone told me)... Now I finally have, I'm healing, hence being here, but it actually feels NICE.. and I haven't had that feeling for a while.... I'm sending you positive thoughts and good wishes. Do all the self care stuff you read about here Alinda... You DESERVE it All the best 🙏👍☀️🙏

@@sturobertson6791 OMGosh > Thank You sooooo much!!! > I Too ran into an old pal today ..

Nicely said.. Their hands are clean as they've done nothing wrong (according to them)

They expect you to frantically run round and correct the Chinese whispers while they're playing the 'gotcha' game!

ONE strategy that works pretty well is to say ‘Let me interrupt a minute…’ when it becomes clear that they are bringing you gossip content. Then, you can tell them WHY you’ve decided not to hear people’s confidentials, personals, family/office politics, etc. At the least, they’ll have to come up with another “strategy,” usually, by asking you to “help” them with something/someone else. (Don’t fall for that one either, just “forget” to get back to them.) At worst, they may drop you from their call list, which is a short-term “win,” but at least you get time to begin distancing. If you consistently disengage (as nicely as possible) they may just stop popping up altogether. TIME (between chats) is the key. Hope the tip helps. 🌱

You mean 'Clean' but bedazzled. You need that many sparkles too make something brown that you flush through the toilet that obvious. Their hands are set to shame, that’s why they need control so bad. I have to lie cause you try to SHAME me(Blame shift has been applied). And add they won’t do it with anyone else just you! That how clean it is. Just follow the trajectory of the damage during their lifetime of creating an utter pile of covert control cr4p.

@@ahnraemenkhera7451 it definitely does help. Very useful, thank you AhnRae🙏☀️

Those are major red flags.

Thank you.

It makes me sadder when siblings fall out than when I read about broken marriages, for some reason. Sad for the kids, though. Hopefully, you’ve done the healthier thing for yourself. Hopefully, the siblings’ values improve someday. Stay well (& sane)!

@@ahnraemenkhera7451 Thank you... My children have told me for years my sis and bro are insane...control freaks...guess i finally listened. ....🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ No sibling relationship is better than a narc one... Thanks for the encouragement !💖

@@dewuknowHIM You betcha! BE encouraged. No siblings on my part, but I’ve worked UNDER & (mistakenly?) befriended many Narcs. We, underlings used to call them “crazy-makers.” They cause lasting damage & they never self-correct. Even when conditions change, they cannot, without help, because their brains are abnormal at generating empathy, guilt, etc. It’s a form of autism, really, in that “it’s their own world,” & their “ego” equals all emotional reference-to themselves. But be safe. Avoid the “flying monkey armies.” Choose health (& distance) for yourself & be a hardliner for your boundaries. I, too, had to learn tools to say: “Let me call you back,” & “I have to interrupt, because…” or “I’ll have to get back to you another time, Wednesday at 7?” (Narcs HATE it when you “schedule them!”) But if they don’t keep the appointment, it’s usually so they can impress you with some Very Impressive Nonsense you won’t have anything to do with. They ALL lead SUCH Big Lives, it’s best to stay well OUT. If you do call on time, keep it brief. If you keep them on schedule, they’ll fizzle eventually. They need dramatic effects, not routine. Routine exhausts them. At first, I felt like Johnny Carson. “We’ve got to take a break here,…” But now, I spot those tendencies & traits & ZAPP! I’m outta that WEB! Happy NEW Health, & Best Wishes, HattulKavel-NarcFree in ‘23! ☺️😊🤫😂 🥂🪷🐰

And in a nutshell you're describing my entire family. It does make me sad you know? I'll probably spend the rest of my life trying to get rid of their narcissistic ghosts. But I'm okay with that it's all I have.

@@chipchippie Chip, I'm hearing you.. But the rest of your life is for you to be free, fulfilled, joyous, peaceful, content, growing, moving forward, creating lovely healthy relationships, looking forward, enjoyment, living a life of DRC... Put them ghosts in a compartment in your mind and only get those memories out when it's good and convenient for you.. Good luck Chip. TH got your back!! 👍🙏☀️🍀

You begin to realize that you collect narcissists all around you. I really saw the malignant narcissists but was confused by the covert types. It wasn't until I was working with a covert narcissist that I started watching Dr. C and Dr. Ramani that I began to realize what was going on in other areas of my life. I am now on the road to recovery!! I too have decided that I am not going to take it anymore!! Stay strong Cindy!!

I know just how you feel, the more you learn you you realise just how many people in your past were toxic and we gave them the best of us

Well said Deus. They certainly do not like themselves, but because they cannot admit that (for it would mean addressing their flaws/ demons)... They project their dislike onto "us".. And by "us" I mean those closest to them All the best 🙏☀️

Trust your gut!

Maggie M -Thank you for your lovely comment. And Thank you, Dr C for helping us be people of peace. Last but not least, and thank you Gus, for clearly being a dog of peace.

None of us is obliged to make them better persons, that's up to them. I'm sure they know the difference between good and bad and they choose consciously.

I wish you peace ♡

It IS that simple, once you know.....just leave..

Glad it was helpful!

#TeamHealthy

YUP! I raised TWO step daughters and they were AWFUL to me. One almost NEVER spoke, IN PUBLIC she was chatty Cathy. The other NEVER SHUT UP and all she was doing was MANIPULATING! IF you did NOT pay attention to her she would be outside YELLING AT SOMETHING! She threw HUGH tantrums and slept with EVERYONE and ANYONE! She had MANY sexually transmitted diseases and NEVER STOPPED! She ran away one day POOF, disappeared! She left EVERYTHING HERE! THEN she spent MONTHS using the COPS to harass me as she tried to give me ORDERS about what she wanted me to do with her STUFF! I blocked her! She was like TORTURE on a daily basis! She had all the right reasons to be a MAD KID but NO ONE ELSE had to listen to it! OH and I NEVER met any of her friends! After she left I read A journal of hers that stated how PROUD she was at her ability to MANIPULATE PEOPLE!

That's a great resolution! I like it!

I second that!! That's a forever resolution. Well said Marie🙏☀️

Amen

Gus embodies dignity, respect, civility.

@@ejnix7874 So True 🥰🥰

I definitely agree on the imbalance of openness/sharing. Since i don’t have other details about your relationship with your sis, i can’t really answer your question about whether or not intimacy issues are something all sisters share. I certainly never felt comfortable sharing those kinds of things with my sister. We weren’t in contact with one another the way you and your sis were though. For me personally, sharing the intimate issues is something i personally wouldn’t do regardless. Coverts usually glean information about you so that they can either use it against you or use it to somehow manipulate you and/or any given situation. That’s definitely been the case for me personally. Lesson learned, never tell all. Maybe your sis has been burned herself by some narcissist and it’s caused her to not feel comfortable sharing details about her own life. Like i said, i don’t know because i don’t know other details to your situation. I do know what it feels like to be on a one sided effort relationship. It’s exhausting to be the one to always call and always share and then hope against hope they will some day do the same. Sending you a cyber hug and freedom vibes! Once i finally stopped wishful thinking what i gave would eventually come back to me, freedom and peace is what i received.

@@AlwaysStampinVideos Thanks! I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but one problem of living in an abnormal situation is not realizing that it IS abnormal. I literally don't know what a normal sibling relationship is like, so I'm left guessing. Do other people talk to their siblings about such-and-such? Is this over the line, or does everyone do it? Maybe that's why going no contact was such a relief; I no longer have to tap dance in the dark anymore!

Tap dance in the dark... That's a great phrase that tells your story. Wanda and Stampin, I think your comments here are super helpful... There's something special happens in the learning part of my brain when I read words that are so honest and touch on your vulnerabilities... It's a privilege, and I think that triggers learning for me. Bless you both... Kind thoughts for both of you🙏☀️☀️🙏

Same here.

@@AlwaysStampinVideos well said.

Well said Mark. That's so reinforcing to how we should be. Thank you🙏👍☀️

@@sturobertson6791 I am fairly well off. I have friends worth millions and friends worth nothing that live paycheck to paycheck. What’s inside is all that matters.

I watch how they treat people. Waitress, cashier, people in general. If they treat people with kindness, they are capable of loving. If they don’t, that is likely a red flag.

@@aaronkwolfe I never seen waiter / waitress abuse from my wife. Her lies come out mostly from always playing the victim.

@@aaronkwolfe You mean they are capable of being “fake.”

I had a co-worker that like to keep secrets and would feed me little bits of information. Years later, I caught him in a lie over a work assignment that I got screwed over on. I called him out on it and got our boss involved. His punishment for me.....The Silent Treatment. When I retired a short time later, he didnt have the decency to wish me good luck or anything. I caused a Narcissist Injury and looks like I got a lifetime punishment of the silent treatment. Good riddance.

Ugh. I wish I could come to Canada, but alas!

@@SurvivingNarcissism It's just refreshing to hear someone demonstrate how a non-narcissistic person will speak and think and be able to discuss problems. Thanks again, Dr. C.

U don't want to live with it? You don't have to live with it. Start formulating your secret plan leave. Good luck & God bless ya

@@teresadvorak6145 Thank you Teresa. I'm 70 and he spent all his money and I only have a very small sum saved because I raised 4 kids and worked part-time. He has gone through an enormous amount of money over the years but blew it all on just small things that added up. Until the past maybe 6 or 7 years, I didn't have any plan to leave and he wouldn't leave me alone anyway. As soon as an opportunity presents itself that's affordable, I'm gone. I've been saving, but rent is outrageous, too much for me alone. As I said.. I have been saving and one day I just might go.

So very accurate, Nancy.

That sounds like a pattern of behaviour. Definitely feel for you, I think many people here would say it could be time to evaluate your options. Good luck I hope things get better for you🙏☀️

Their favorite thing to do is project their faults and behaviors onto you. I guess it's their way to deal with their guilt and shame. Dump it on someone else to get a relief.