THE thing that upsets me the most about Mystique and Destiny is that now that they are a couple we, AND EVERY CHAREACTER, need to accept them as redeemed, for no good reason. They still both did HORRIBLE things in the past. Even if you overlook how this retcon destroys so many characters, all the X-Men (especially Nightcrawler, Gambit, Rouge, Iceman, Cyclops, and Wolverine) have less then zero reason to forgive or trust them.

1. Perch and Joe Corallo 2. Midnighter and Apollo 3. Northstar and Kyle

At best, Wonder Woman is the comic book equivalent of: "I experimented in college, but I'm straight."

Seems like a lot of these characters were retconned as gay, bi, etc within the last 5-10 years. That’s the problem.

Mystique in the thumbnail looks like the "MY STUDENTS ARE ALL MORONS!" redraw meme that was everywhere for a while.

If it is iconic, it has to be created that way in the beginning.

The most iconic is Joe Glass and his unrequited love of Marvel.

People really don't know what "iconic" means anymore and it's not synonymous with popularity. My definition, but my understanding is that iconography captures the essence of a thing in its own image. Religious artwork is "iconic" in that it captures a story or concept in the particular image. You look at a crucifix, particularly a good and detailed one, and it captures a whole lot of the story of Jesus even in a static image. In pop culture, R2-D2 or Darth Vader are iconic because they say a whole lot about Star Wars even as singular characters. You look at Vader, your brain instantly thinks of a whole lot of Star Warsy stuff. Marvel's prominent film characters also do this very well. Captain America says a whole lot just by standing next to a flag. If you can find me a queer Marvel or DC character who makes an implicit storytelling statement just by existing, I'm all ears. *Maybe* Harley, but iconic Harley is typically the classic jester who's in a toxic codependent relationship with the Joker.

The only iconic couple that I accept is Midnighter and Apollo.

Only good gay couple in comics is Midnighter and Apollo everyone else is made gay to appeal to the 1% that doesn’t even read the comics.

Shouldhave just titled it, "most iconic super heroes that are suddenly gay"

Couples: Midnighter and Apollo Donner and Blitzen Hulkling and Wiccan Scandal Savage and Knockout Note that they had to seriously de-age Destiny to ship her with Mystique. You know who else does that? Fanfic writers.

Midnighter and Apollo and... That's it.

Tim Drake being bi is going to get ignored in a couple years

Kitty Pryde? Stil not convinced. Colossus, Pete Wisdom. Sure illyana but more like a Sister.

Interesting thing about this Pride month, the only time I ever saw anything about it was from the Internet. It seemed a lot less intrusive this year.

The author clearly started reading comics 5 years ago

Just thinking of characters with untapped potential: DC has Bunker. He was on the 2011 Teen Titans with Tim Drake. He's hardly ever used in anything. It's maddening how often the Big 2 don't give their LGBT characters any decent stories. Instead, just retcon another character with some good stories under their belt. It comes across as mean-spirited.

two days after Pride Month aka Secular Christmas is over, Perch proves that it's DC and Marvel who are the real Grinches by hating their actual gay characters.

normie perspective here. i learned everything i know about comics from watching guys like you and ya boi zack. what i dont like about "woke" stuff, in general, is that they dont want to lift up "marginalized voices", by creating good characters that people can rally behind. they prefer to tear down straight, white, male characters to create the same effect. but every character ends up horrible when they do this. its al crap, but hey, we're all on the same level right? the true insidious nature tells on itself. "woke" is a straight, white male supremacy movement disguised as a movement for everyone else. this explains why they dont take the already gay characters and give them stories to make them iconic. they dont see gay characters as legitimate. they only see straight, white, male characters as legitimate, so they turn them gay to pander. to tear down one side to make the other side look taller.

Maybe the tv show Kaldur’ahm was conceived as a gay but comic book Brightest Day Aqualad, Jackson Hyde was introduced as straight with a girlfriend who soon cruses on Aquagirl.

Very informative video. I had no idea Newsarama was still around. I thought they got shut down years ago. That's not a dismissive burn, I actually believed that. No mention of Dreamer or that one girl from New Mutants? Tim Drake as iconic for being bi? He hardly appears in anything anymore. I'm not sure I would include Mystique as "iconic" as there are some iffy consent issues around that character.

Wonder Woman's queer status can be inferred from her history. She lived on an island populated by a few thousand immortal women with no males in sight. (So... you kind of have to wonder about certain aspects of their lives, y'know?) Then, of course, there's her old expression: "Suffering Sappho!" which refers to the ancient poet from the island of Lesbos.

A lot of the characters as "gay" are quite the reach...you're right - the claims are mostly performative and that gives more ammunition to the complainers about gays being in comics. I really wonder how much of that "article" was just stirring the pot

Why are they changing characters to make gay or Bi. When did Wonder Women become gay and Kitty Bi . All this changing characters history to please Editor and write who have their own agenda

Wonder Woman make sense given her origins and her creators love life.

Forget it Perch its Rainbow town

To put it in perspective. It’s sometimes really hard for people that care. To let go and that’s why they let stupid articles like that one get to them. In my mind you have to learn to walk away. Which is one of the hardest things to learn in life.🧐

I like Midnighter and Apollo even though Apollo needs more of a personality and motivation outside of Midnighter. Shatterstar and Richter but unironically had more chemistry before they came out as a couple. The original Phyla-Vell and Moondragon were fun too but I don’t like the new Phyla she’s boring and lacks flaws and Moondragon can do better.

Constantine? Oh dear. Wonder Woman was literally "The Writer's Barely Disguised Fetish", not sure that qualifies her. This was amusing. We would also say disappointing, but more would have had to bave been expected in the first place.

I know Batwoman doesn't have the best brand image nowadays, but how is she not on this list? I remember seeing fanart of her on Tumblr, more often than Hulking/Wiccan even

It sometimes feels more like they are taking chess pieces instead of making characters lgbt

And about Kitty Pryde is Newsarama gonna use that panel where Kitty tickles Magik that Kitty accidentally phase both of them into the bed? Yeah, that where the shipping of Kitty and Magik started. What did you interpret that panel as? It is a metaphor for Kitty “Arriving Early”? Or it doesn’t mean anything.

4:10 I am out of the loop and stopped reading x-men not long into krakoa. When the fuck did Kitty become gay?

Its 2029, Perch is doing the same 4 LGBT videos again for the 10th year in a row. Joe is on this time to celebrate the occasion. Content is still the same.

I put Freedom Ring as #1, everyone else is weak

Mystique and Destiny was one of main things that I hated in Krakoa Age. The stupid Nightcrawler origin retcon was the last straw for me.

0:18 I'll always hate this panel because of the expensive one shot it is tied to and the fact it broke so much for nothing of value to be gained from it. Nothing about it, what came before and after it, makes sense : By the time Nightcrawler was born, Destiny was more than 100 years old and would have been old and wrinkly. By the time Rogue was adopted by Mystique and Destiny, Destiny was already *very* old and wrinkly. The one-shot pretends like Nightcrawler's adoptive mother, who is a normal human woman with a normal human lifespan and a child who'd have been born around the same time Nightcrawler was, is older than Destiny. Destiny gave birth in pants while Mystique was next to her in a dress. Destiny (a blind woman) has see-through glasses throughout the whole ordeal for no reason except doing everything in the most unpractical of ways. To try and pretend like Nightcrawler had anything from Destiny this whole time, the comic couldn't decide on what hair color Destiny had from one panel to the next since it's either grey, light brown or black (the last one never being what she has in any of the pre-Krakoa era flashbacks). Destiny goes through 22 hours of labor and receives plent of painkillers with the comic specifically stating she'll be bed ridden for days afterwards yet in the minutes following the birth, she outruns both a healthy Mystique in top physical shape and a mob. Mystique's powerset gets nonsensically retconned, turning her into a lazy character who never bothered using her powers to their full potential or even copying the DNA of her adoptive daughter so they'd be able to hold and hug each other by tricking Rogue's body into thinking it was her own self that was touching her. Mystique was having a fake pregnancy she stupidly decided to synchronize with Destiny's and had no back up plans for it, as in baby ready to be used since it's what the people at the castle have been most expecting for. Mystique, the character who's been teased the longest to be biologically related to Nightcrawler and to know all about his origins, ends up no longer related to him biologically and knowning the least about his origins. Destiny is forgiven by everyone, Mystique included, even though what she did to her in the retcon is worse than anything Azazel did to her by a longshot. Because on top of the retcon taking every awful thing Azazel did to Mystique, removing it from his character and placing it all on Destiny, she forced Mystique to get a mindwipe of the whole ordeal and betrayal she inflicted on her. She pretended like she had forgotten about everything but wrote notes to herself, meaning she apparently knew about everything for 30 years and still let Nightcrawler die in DoFP, 616, AoA, SoS, ... Nightcrawler trusts, hugs and forgives Mystique, a woman who since their first meeting has used their resemblance against him, her knowledge of his heritage to get favors from him, has lied to him about his origins on two separate occasions, has told him in this new version of his origins information that directly contradicts things he experienced, did and saw, and did nothing to prevent his death in 616... She was surprised that he even came back to life back in 2014. That's how little she cares about him. The mindwipe excuse used to explain this complicated origin story is a plothole in the Krakoa setting since the Scarlet Witch after the first Hellfire Gala upgraded the resurrection protocol by creating the Waiting Room for the souls and fixing all the Cerebro mindfiles of any kind of alterations. This means this new "true" origins should have been remembered by both Mystique and Destiny for two entire years by the time Nightcrawler started going around pretending to be Spider-Man... Because yes, this is his character's status quo at the time of the one-shot : His sales went down so much that the only way to sell anything about him was a temporary mantle swap that doesn't even make sense in the mini surrounding the retcon one-shot.

4:18 There was? Really? Like you did read Jackson Hyde’s Pre-Flashpoint Stories? Before he went blonde. 6:57 I remember there was a lot of talk about Wonder Woman is bisexual cause she grew up in Themyscira an island full of women. That is a possibility. So we need get solid proof Wasn’t Diana on the cover of Love is Love comic from 2016. Jim Zub did partake Love is Love 2016 comic? I bet wrote story about his love for you, a married man. I am Joking. I do remember when Stephanie William introduced the trans Amazon. People tries to defend this by using Cavern of Souls. What’s your take on this? Do Cavern of Souls take all types of women? 7:50 Yeah. No Duh, Sherlock. You also ignored *Bunker* and *Ghostmaker* from DC comics which proven your own point. I already send you email 3 lgbt characters that taken seriously but you just ignore them. Come on you record really fast. I take GhostMaker over retcon Tim Drake. At least James Tydion make Ghostmaker interesting not a gay stereotype. And I said this a year ago, Obsidian is not a recognizable name as Green Lantern so they made Alan Scott gay instead to pushing his son. Like how DC pushed Jace Fox as Batman rather than elevating Duke Thomas an original Black character with an Original Mantle. Cowards. Cowards I say! Again, you left out *Karma.* At least Ya Boi Zack made Video about Karma. Yes it mostly him criticizing Vita Ayala’s Run of New Mutants. But still he acknowledged Karma. You know, Perch. You should compare older writers who wrote Karma back then to Karma is writing now. You and Dok are X Men Experts do a collab and talk about Karma. And yes, you have to acknowledge the comic code authority. A lot of people forgot that Selina Kyle is bisexual. Remember during the New 52 era, Selina kissed Eiko when she passed down her Catwoman mantle to her. Shame Eiko didn’t do anything to make her memorable. 11:31 I care about Daken. For being a character. But Sina Grace, Leah William and Steve Orlando exploited Daken’s sexuality. I think Hellverine should be Earth 616’s Daken final story, so Hickman and Peach Momoko can make Daken’s 6160 counterpart to be next Wolverine because 6160 11:44 The Ray is another example. He dated 3 women one of them is Black Canary before Steve Orlando retcon his sexuality to be in sync with CW’s The Ray. F-ing lazy if you tell me. Steve Orlando is capable of creating original characters. He created original characters from The Unexpected and Electric Warriors in DC comics. Marvel. *I cannot defend Somnus.* Steve Orlando created *“only one”* original Character in his Marvel 2099, *Tulkas* The only original character. Like just keep him 2099 continuity while 616 counterpart is frozen or something. 11:39 There is also *Bling from X Men* She black and lesbian but not good enough for Newsarma. She should be either Jed McKay’s X Men or the Current X Force. Maybe Gail Simone’s Uncanny X Men. Again that a maybe. Gail is drunk with power from the internet. Anole from X Men. I already talk about him. What defines him as hero from Quest of Magik. And Northstar and Karma are role models to Anole and they gave him positive influence in his life.

@Comics_by_pearch ya girl share your pride what a great and powerful video. You're a real ally

Where the F*ck is #Shatterstar and Rictor!!! Obsidian and Renee Montoya (Question) are pretty Iconic too, but Shatterstar! Shatterstar!?🙄 Also Kitty and Diana is Not Gay😒 You could say Betsy Braddock is bi because she dated the female version of Fantomex, and Loki is probably omnisexual, (he is a crazy god who turns female and into animals, he once had a baby with a female being in the myths), BUT Wonder Woman and Kitty Pryde are not guy, your not gay just because you came from an island of women or is a tomboy🙄 Moondragon and Phyla-Vell make way way more sense, and should probably be on this list as well. I'm still pretty annoyed Shatterstar was not on this list😒

Hulkling & Wiccan!

Wait Kitty pryde is gay? When did that one happen?

Surprise, surprise the list is moslty recently retconned major characters. These lists have always been flawed, not even when they are about representation. So weird to have Kate here but not Renee. She's an older character and was handled much better than so many others. Wonder Woman has been in a weird are that DC seems reluctant to commit, maybe because they are worries about backlash but mainstream works have been vague while Elseworlds have been more explicit. And I'll say it again, as much as DC supposedly cares about Diversity and George Perez's Legacy (especially his Titans) they have been their best to ignore a mute and bisexual Titan in Jericho, most especially with the recent Dark Crisis with his father and push his friends have been getting. His creators thought about making him gay in the 80s but didn't because he be too much of a stereotype (which yeah probably would have even if it isn't the main reason) or it just being the 80s, but either way he was shown to be ladies man and close to Raven. I honestly really prefer how Priest handled his sexuality in Rebirth where it at least worked with how the character was portrayed before,( i.e. not really caring about his partners' body parts gels with 80s artsy romantic Jericho and his powers )than Wolfman in Convergence and the can of worms there. Either way he barely gets attention, I think Bunker and Crush get more spotlight than him in terms of LGBT Titans who aren't Tim or Jackson. And wait, no Jon Kent on the list? I'm sure Tom Taylor is disappointed.

Just like with all D.I.E. I highly doubt the shot-callers are paying much attention to actual demographics and numbering their tirade treatises accordingly, just another lazy storytelling device that’s been predicted by South Park years ago with the Tweak loves Craig episode.

🤨

I remember not too long ago that some people were speculating that Hercules and Iceman were going to be a thing since they were standing next to one another on the Voices: Pride cover and asking the question of who would top likely ignorant of the fact that Hercules was prayed to by power top men to be better power tops. But then I suspect that most gay men at Marvel are pillow biters anyway so they can't write what they don't know.

If you are not gay. Then why even care? at this point, comics are just marketing material for editorial.

This Mystique art looks like garbage

I just don’t want to look at 2 dudes kissing, I’m sorry but I just have no interest in that.