The killer’s objective just takes wayyyy too long compared to the survivors’ objective

Trickster magic trick. :p

This

Facts

@@Streudles fr he has to deal with 4 of them all running meta perks

I honestly hate all these map reworks, they look shit now 😑

@Zechari Diaz Go compare them, they don't look scary now

@@randomstranger8326 I dont think they look like shit but i liked the old coldwind it was nostalgic somehow even tho i just started playing dbd 1 year ago

yeah they worry about how the map looks than how good it is ingame

@@randomstranger8326 i hate them for different reasons but it doesn't change much

Racoon city wouldve better to be honest

I agree with everything you said but the last one. Unless I'm thinking this wrong, but that's how licensed chapters work- except for Ghostface as he's not from any of the movies

@@cheetopuff9933 Ghostface wasn't a Chapter release, just a one-off killer like Leatherface

@@cheetopuff9933 yea but usually they make the appropriate changes to make if fit into dbd and feel good and functional, but this map is so identical to the one from the resident evil 2 remake that you can tell it was meant for an entirely different type of game. The map works in re2 because you have to explore and unlock various areas, and the extent of the map you are ever active in is way smaller than dbd and it shows

BHVR made that mistake. Holding w rewards them more than actually playing the game.

Why would they not do it? It took 4 years to figure it out but the best strategy is to run away, Nemesis is the incarnation of help the survivors hold W since he actually gives them an extra sprint burst with his ability, he is design to help good survivors.

i remember a Tru3 test when he counted the time to down a survivor that was just holding W, on Mothers dwelling, and he counted 40 seconds with just holding W

@@percival_eyeless And that's 3 gens been done half-way. Or 1 gen just about 95% done with 2 people on it, and another gen half-way.. Given it'd be even more time since a survivor won't just hold W straight forward either. They'll drop a few pallets too

@@blueboy1958 and if you have corrupt they just move to another gen

I actually find the Zombies fun to play around when facing a Nemesis. It makes it so, even if I’m left alone for a while, I still need to be cautious and play around a hazard. Even in chases, Zombie placement can be hilariously effective - and, in some rare cases, might even get in the Nemesis’ way, which really spices things up when getting chased. I wish BHVR would add more of those kinds of elements in the game, instead of RNG-based or oppressive 1v1 based mechanics.

I think it's sad that one of the most fun killers to go against got nerfed to the ground and they still haven't fixed him. (Billy)

@@crazylady5371 unfortunately

Its kinda sad because its so fun to go against a blight, oni or pig (for the jumpscares lol), for example...then there's spirit and deathslinger...

Well playing against good survivors ain't fun either unless you are playing one of those really strong 1v1 killers so yeah you want to see those killer get played more but what's the incentive for it, why should people play those killers when the game is even more out of their hands for playing them?

Licensed maps are notoriously bad

Last licensed map or reworked? Trying to think of which infinite you are mentioning

@@prohobbyist5872 rpd station

Lol even the reworks fucking suck, the game and corn got even worse Imo the last rework that I remember that was good are the clowns map and nurses map

Midwich? Sucks. Hawkins? Sucks. Haddonfield? *SUCKS*. RPD? Sucks. Badham? Sucks. I think the Game is the only licensed map I don't actually dislike at all. Yeah it's pallet city but I somehow find myself always having fun as both survivors and killers.

Oppressive chases somewhat help in 4v1, and when it affects the 4v1 scenario; that is fun as being the killer. It removes the burden of being pressurized with the survivor objectives being completed; because faster downs would essentially involves 2 survivors doing something other than the primary objective: generators. And they are - survivor hooked, and survivor going for the rescue. I am not a fan of oppressive chases myself, but I can understand as to why oppressive chases are needed. Because if chases last long, only the survivor being chased has fun whilst for others it's boring AF pressing just m1. Oppressive chases guarantee a skill showcase opportunity for more than one survivor, more than once. So, in short, oppressive chase is tied to weak pressure because it may not apply to ALL survivors, and yet, it may not apply to all killer playstyles.

Here's the problem. Her pressure requires you to win chases, and she's weak in chases. Holding W is more effective against her, than the other killers Tofu has mentioned. These killers don't have enough in the 1v4, and survivors complain about 1v4 killers all the time. Survivors just don't want to be challenged. Nothing more.

Oppressive chases can be fun as fuck for the killer.

Oppressive chase is fun for the killer, but leaves the survivor feeling like they can't do very much except do gens and get out so in the end it stresses the killer out more because they use plenty of their resources to buy them time to get the gens done and get out.

The last gen hat nerf hurt so much too, i used to trap at open gate and if they win the bet on a box they live, if not well rip...

Hes also got a high skill cap though which is why a lot of people dont play him sadly

@@sldX I think it's a mixture of both. 3+ months (they probably work on two DLCs at the same time) is really not that much time if you take into consideration what has do be done. The creative process alone is a huge task. Figuring out mechanics and 6 to 9 new perks with Killer add ons AND a map. It's almost impossible to deliver something great AND WORKING in such short amount of time. Which is why they rely on the same recipe and just switch up two Ingredients for the past few DLCs. Because it's just easier for them. It's not as much work to switch up a few aesthetic choices in the end and add in a new mechanic. But that's just my opinion and I have been really frustrated with the game lately so maybe I'm going bonkers.

Agreed, they should have announced a slower output and higher focus on the existing game when the talked about the roadmap

The newest survivor and killer perks feel pay to win like hex undying and built to last but that's my opinion

*less is more*

I mean you gotta release new content otherwise a game dies. I got bored out of my mind of DBD - and I only play a couple matches a week - between the Twins release to mid-chapter after Trickster. There was literally nothing that freshened up the game, no list of perk adjustments or other changes and the Twins weren't fun to have in your games since nobody gets BP when Victor is chasing. I'm not asking for new chapters, I'm asking for simple things like perk and gameplay adjustments, I'm baffled at the fact that ever since I first played 1 year ago the perk meta hasn't changed in the slightest. Ruin (and soon enough Undying joined), bbq, pop are simply among the few best perks. Same counts for dh, bt, iron will, ds, unbreakable, there are some mid-tier perks but why would you run those in red ranks instead of the simply better perks? Why do they never ever adjust the perks which are one of the biggest fun factors in DBD? Is it really that hard? Does it mess up the game too easily and cause new bugs? Not even gonna talk about the fact that there's literally 1 objective per role which makes the game grow stale so quickly for casual players, that's why the playerbase never actually grows. It's been 5 years of hold m1 / W vs. hit and hook. Worse than all of that it feels like you have no choice but run these meta perks in high ranks because running silly D-Tier perks is basically trolling since they're so much worse than meta perks. I feel like you should be able to run adept survivor and killer and never feel like you might as well be going into the trial perkless but when you play something like adept Ash it's literally like having 4 empty slots since the perks are this incredibly bad on their own. They always need a whole perk and item/addon build around them to possibly (!) be useful every other match or so. There are so many examples for this issue and they never get addressed.

Ormond rework was good, now it's almost only unsafe pallets

@@PriestPoppy Devs after Badham Rework 2019: We noticed,that many Killer hate Badham because of the strong Buildings and Godpallets and everyone like the Idea of more Pallets,but mindgamebale so we decided,that Hawkins,Dead Dawg Saloon,Midwich,Yamaoka and Ormond get ultra unsafe Pallets and Killer will get mostly a hit

Well god pallets or deadzones. Very little in-between.

I think the worst part about the reworks is they decided that putting infinites into the maps was ok as long as there was a breakable wall where the old fix spot was. All it does is further the "hold w" meta because if the wall is up, it's a guaranteed chase loser as the killer either accepts the wall break ending the chase or attempts to mindgame the infinite. Groaning Storehouse is my "favorite" example. If you don't spawn near that wall and break it early, you're going to lose a chase there at some point, and that's bullshit design, especially when the rest of the storehouse lost its semi-safe pallets for no reason. Those were at least interactive.

@@LordRegal94 Yeah,I agree.And then they decided to remove Pallets or Windows to compensate This. At example. -Groaning Storehouse,Rancid Abbatoir,Thompsonhouse has fewer Pallets at the Mainbuilding then before.And they Blocked one of the two Windows from Coal Tower.They promote the Passive Gameplay With These Breakable Walls.And when the Killer Breaks the Wall at the beginning the survivor has'nt the Ressource and when a survivor Escape because of the godwindow,He will Escape, although He Just vault a Window without any Skill involved.And the Sad Thing is,that all these Pallets and Windows used to be mindgamebale,except of the Thompsonhouse one.I think it was the only good Change,because with the Breakable Walls there is also mindgame, especially in the Beautiful Reworked Thompsonhouse. The Gamemap has the worst Breakable Walls in the entire Game.Survivors are running in Deadends and the patrolling Sucks for killer, because they Blocked the way to Gens.Hopefully they understand,that both Sides dislike Breakable Walls and they decide,that they are'nt a Part of futuremaps

Facts

This is a PERFECT take.

Nemesis downside. The tentacle attack hit box is about the with of a crayola crayon making it hilariously easy to miss even if you aim at a pallet while survivors are vaulting. On top of that in order to actually damage survivors with the whip in the first place you have to hit them a first time which gives you a recoil effect, as well as giving them a sprint burst, which extends the chase and for all intensive purposes only makes him an m1 killer with a slightly larger reach…. But only for that one survivor. Then you have to repeat that process 3+ times cause survivors can heal from infections. Meanwhile survivors have the entire map they can use to their whim in chases while generators get done. “No downsides” my ass

Yup. I face a good twins player and its like welp, i cant utilise my 4k hours of skill, guess ill just die :(

We’ve had a lot of ranged killers since Deathslinger came out, so let me make my comparison between huntress and all ranged killers, I’ll try to be brief for a KZfaq comment. Let’s simply explain huntress’s drawbacks (no addons for my comparisons) 5 hatchets, after that you MUST break chase to reload, and some maps have lockers in weird places (Temple of Purgation has no lockers on one half of the map) Speed: 110% and WAY slower when winding up hatchets, to the point where she is almost slower than a WALKING survivor Windup: even with best addons, a survivor can reasonably react to a huntress hatchet, she makes a sound, the hatchet has a reasonable flight time, it’s fair. Cool down: if she misses, she slowly gains the speed and can’t attack until done, giving survivors a chance to vault or drop pallets Ok now Deathslingers drawbacks: Range: 18 meters, but with his benefit of being an instant shot he doesn’t need range. Think of a game like COD, if you only do close combat, you don’t need a sniper, and that’s pretty much huntress and deathslinger. Huntress has a sniper that takes time to shoot with more range, deathslinger would kill her in COD because of his close range weapon. Reload: not even a drawback compared to huntress, but still one I guess. Reloads whenever he wants for 2 seconds or so Reel in: he has to reel them in to *down* them, however, the shot itself is enough to get an injure, even if you can’t hit them Now the same drawbacks or similar drawbacks apply for Pyramid head (through walls,no reload, .5 second reaction for survivors though), trickster (more range, needs more hits) and nemesis (less range, through pallets, and less cool down than m1) Now let’s create a scenario: Shack A huntress at shack will always need to anticipate what the survivor will do or force them to do what they want. For example if you turn the corner of shack and raise a hatchet, if the survivor started vaulting as your raised, they will have enough time to dodge, as they should, it allows counter play. If the survivor isn’t beginning their vault, a huntress raises a hatchet and if they choose to vault knowing that she has the hatchet ready, they will get in animation lock. Or they could choose the pallet and get hit the same way. But they could also try and juke the hatchet, where if she misses, the cool down is long enough to fast vault the window or drop god pallet and run. Now let’s use deathslinger, PH, Trickster, and nemesis all at once, since they all have the same play style in this scenario more or less. The killer waits for the survivor to get in animation lock (vault window/pallet) and then m2. That’s it, they don’t need to guess based on the survivors pathing. If a survivor thinks the killer will shoot at the window, the killer simply doesn’t shoot and takes the m1. If they vault, they get shot. It creates a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation, which is what the last SIX killer have been (blight j-flicking is that, but with that gone I guess it’s better so really last 6 minus blight). Even if SOMEHOW they miss their shot, the drawback isn’t sever enough to get nothing out of the scenario. Best case for the survivor is to wats the shack pallet early, which is effective but boring as shit to just drop pallets early and call it a win. The devs are making killers where survivors skill doesn’t matter, it’s all about if the killer messes up or whatever. People say “oh but I saw this player 5 gen run that killer so he isn’t op” they got lucky, or the killer wasn’t using their power efficiently. Edit: Old Billy was this: could stop someone from doing a gen in seconds by zooming to it, and then in chase, if he played better than the survivor, he gets a quick down, if he messes up, it could be a 3-4 gen run, maybe even 5 if he really messes up Edit2: Nemesis has downsides, 3 hits to down someone takes longer than 2 m1s. However, if they stay infected, it’s 2 hits with a lesser cool down. Keeping people infected isn’t that hard if you are lucky enough to get zombies camping gens, hooks and loops, which happens quite often. He has downsides sometimes, but they aren’t bad enough to make him fun in 1v1 Edit3: I didn’t even mention zoning, Huntress moves so slow when trying to zone, and because she has a reactable attack, zoning takes a bit of planning and the right conditions to be super effective. Even winding up at a pallet is sometimes ineffective unless perfectly guessed as huntress. Deathslinger, PH, Nemesis and even Trickster, they can wind up their m2 faster or move faster than huntress, allowing for a more effortless zoning. Deathslinger is the best example, but tofu explained that in the video so I won’t go into that. At pallets, DS can *injure* you even if you drop it, so you are 100% getting injured at any loop against him. PH can raise his power up and still close the distance while waiting for you to drop a pallet and get hit anyway. Don’t drop the pallet? He just cancels and hits you. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Predrop pallets *sometimes* won’t even work if he predicts right. Don’t forget he has such a small cool down that he can keep you at a dropped pallet until he hits you eventually. Trickster is pretty much the same as PH, it just doesnt go through walls and is a bit faster with more hits needed, not much difference in play style though. Nemesis, like huntress, but a faster windup (not tested, but base nemesis *feels* like babushka huntress) Edit4: I didn’t mention twins because this wasn’t about non ranged killers, but just know there are obvious problems that I don’t need to mention with those things I have 4.5k hours, and I do well against nurses because there IS counter to nurse, the better player comes on top. Same with Oni, wraith, huntress, billy, bubba, etc. Those killers have drawbacks and I can lose to them even as a good survivor if the killer plays really well, which happens sometimes, I lose. But with these new killers, I can play the tile properly, dodge an attack or two, but still I will eventually go down, even if I played perfectly. To me, this is the problem with DBD, skill doesn’t matter, it’s a luck game.

For someone who hasn't been playing for a super long time, this is a really clear-headed take. Really well said dude

@Cementarii the thing is, the counters to huntress and trapper in loops are actually quite similar to just press W out of the loop. If you see trapper placing a trap while chasing you you leave that loop to disarm it later. Against huntress is a kind of a mindgame, will she m1? drop pallet, will she throw hatchet? keep running, it plays exactly like nemesis, m1 or tentacle? drop or keep running? sure there's situations where you are screwed no matter what but as a survivor i know i can play around the cooldown of the tentacle, the PHead punishment and the DS shot because they have cooldown and it's not like the hitbox is infinite. I see it as reading minds gameplay but i understand a lot of people don't like it

This is the Tru3 philosophy and it reflects the current community perfectly. However while that’s how you are successful most of the time, the good players don’t have weak links. And if it’s SWF every time you leave a chase you lose the element of surprise that comes with leaving a chase. Some day 1 gens have been an issue and I’m glad Tofu recognizes that DBD is a party game instead of the next E-sport.

@@atrius250 I strongly disagree that huntress at pallets plays exactly like nemesis. Against huntress if you're good at survivor you can fake running through and then vacuum drop the pallet if you see she's not pulling out a hatchet, whereas against nemesis, he can just insta tentacle you before you even reach the pallet cause he barely has any wind up time like huntress. Huge difference.

@@roshy9439 nemesis is faster, but it still has a wind-up. i faced a lot of nemesis where is way too noticable. I know what you're saying but i still see the concept being the same, it's the timings that might change a little bit

yes and no... DBD was grossly survivor favored for years. that said, there is bigtime powercreep going on and survivor gameplay is less dynamic than it used to be with the removal of stealth (which was arguably overpowered/too easily abuse). The best SWF squads still pretty much shitcan the best killers... that said, we're talking less than the 1% there... but its like, how are you supposed to balance that? Its clear that the best survivors *groups* can still outplay the best killers... but killers have an OBSCENE advantage vs pubs.

@@sly9263 The easiest way is for tournaments to simply have rules at play: no certain addons, no certain actions, no certain strategies, no certain perks. Limited amount of X. And the easiest of all: offer a competitive lobby for competitive people and ban people from playing competitively in casual games. There is no reason for competitive people to play competitively in a casual lobby, right now they dont have another option. PC players have a pseudo-competitive option, where people turned crossplay off, but that's about it.

@@sly9263 its really not 1% i dont know why people think that alot of the games players are actually able to do about the same its not this crazy 1% of players that know how to run the loops or anything its like atleast 5% the other players maybe braindeads who dont know how to touch a gen or loop a pallet longer than 3 seconds but alot of players do

@@Predated2 that is the stupidest idea ive ever heard ban players from playing comp in casual what does comp mean oh whoops you popped a gen in under 90 seconds there you are banned good luck in the next life loser

@@DeputyFish many can loop, but not many are an effective team- that's the 1%. The game isn't just looping and solo behavior. Smart killers know when to abandon chase to go after someone else/catch them out.

Seriously, Blight’s the most fun killer to go against imo! It’s so damn fun, always puts a smile on my face :)

I would agree, if it wasnt for Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer and those impossible Spins. His chase can be super fun to go against just like Billy, but only when the above aren't involved. When he Gets Hits where he shouldn't and you're just not able to do Gens because of his Perks it's just so boring.

I find Blight absolutely miserable because he erases the concept of macroplay: run him with some solid tracking and slowdown perks and he puts DBD on auto pilot. Doesn't matter if his chase is fun or not when he leaves it to run across the entire map in 6 seconds because he smelled a Tinkerer or Discordance proc a thousand miles away and his zombie brain said "must... stop... generator..."

it took them 8 months after his release to make him playable

@@cyborgsupermanx6509 blighty def had a, slow fixin. I managed to adjust to the shortness, and ended up gettin thrown off with the fixed camera, had to readjust to the readjustment

That map is the perfect example of WHAT NOT TO DO, 20 really safe/god pallets but like 4 windows, really strong map but u only need to drop pallets and that's all, no mindgame window no interactive chase, unfun for both sides.

Huntress is pretty great too imo

Even with add-ons just not insta chainsaw was very fun to play, counter and very competitive too

@@kiwiking2k194 Makes his nerf even more depressing

Myers tho

im a hillbilly main and the sad truth about him is that maps are just horrible for him and in newer or reworked maps the devs have removed flickable loops. In my opinion flicks are the most fun aspect of his power and it's fun for both sides while also counterable. Im not saying that you cant flick, but the loops that allow it are a few and you do need the speed addons in most cases too

That perfectly explains dbd rn

This comment is too accurate it hurts

I've noticed that as a killer (I play both survivor and killer I don't claim a main) if I'm not running and gen slow down perks I have to be Uber territorial when I hook survivors otherwise I'm not gonna stand a chance.

@@doynedodd50 facts, or I rely on 3 genning which is 0 fun for either side. But in all honesty its basically required if you run 1 or no slow downs

Thank you for speaking the truth, but people of the community refuse to accept this as facts

yes!

Just nerf swf lol

Fun to go against nurse until they're good yet still run ruin undying bbq

@@mrmisses1113 yeah most killers are gonna run those perks just like most survs are gonna run adrenaline, dead hard, bt

remove w

@@cyborgsupermanx6509 galaxy brain 🧠

Finally someone gets it

@@connorsneesby396 agreed. most mind games are universal and work fine at red ranks. stealth gamers are much more oppressive than hold w gamers. gen rushing is entirely viable and far to strong and thats where 1v1 looping loses its pressure. when one short chase turns into 3 and a half finished gens, its time to rethink your core gameplay mechanics. the game is suffering but i believe it lies more with level design, going against strong tools, perks and add ons , & the ability to communicate with a fully cohesive team.

Honestly trickster is probably one of the scariest to me cuz he's one of the most realistic outside of legion or doctor

@@grald1195 good point, but still, it fits a different style of game

@@grald1195 lmao future asian man with lightsaber bat. Scaaaaary

Trickster is designed in a way where either the person playing him or the survivors are guaranteed not to have fun. Very BHVR.

@@ceriani1234 I'm saying he's scary cuz he can actually happen

Can add to this. I wim every single game where survivors try to loop and mind game. Maybe theyre just bad loopers, or im a god. Who knows But games where survivors play effectively. They use pallets safely, and hold W. If they see im trying to mind game a loop they just ditch as soon as possible to run away and safe drop a pallet elsewhere. Repeat this until gens pop. Those games. Are really tough to win, and frankly, also very boring and frustrating

I dunno if he's just a god but Ryuga and his descendants seem to really downplay these problems with Legion. I just don't see the W meta almost at all

@@gabrote42 I can definitely see survivors handling Legion differently since straight up running away from him probably isn't the greatest idea, but I can't be 100% sure about anything Legion-related since I don't even *own* Legion yet. He's one of the few killers I haven't picked up yet alongside Ghostface, Twins, Freddy, Pig and Trickster.

@@meatharbor It's not just being handled different, but that their power and playstyle counters W pretty hard, and due to the low average Legion skill nobody can deal with them. If you want some documentation from a good Legion player go to RagingRyuga here on YT. I can probably pull some videos

I would say most good survivors hold W when they can, and then play a loop semi-unsafe once they can't do that anymore. That's how I play, anyway.

Ever since the RE update, yes, same here.

I’ve been lagging on Xbox for like half a year, and it’s gotten worse lately

@@fatcat2015 You don't get it tho, the whole game stutters for a few seconds. If you've been lagging that badly for half a year, maybe it's time for an upgrade.

@@splinter4161 no I do get it that stutter is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s gotten really bad with the RE update, it’s been there for a while in a smaller capacity on Xbox though, as in it used to be much shorter, and less frequent of a stutter.

@@fatcat2015 Ohhhh right I get ya This game always seems to be broken in one way or another... ffs

He never left tho, lol

@@bermuda727 he was gone for 3 weeks on youtube? What do you mean he never left? He definitely left youtube for 3 weeks lmao.

@@mechbean6953 wtf it's a normal 1 month upload, a lots of KZfaqrs does that, if someone doesn't upload for 3 weeks it doesn't mean he left lol, noob3 did left he didn't upload for an year, tofu didn't left.

That will only make him free to voice eaven more opinions on the state of DbD. We still love Tofu and that move will only make The whole FW thing look like a scam that it is. ;D #FreeOhTofu

Nah, they won't kick him. FW are full of literal nobodies right now and it only goes downhill as things stand. And to be honest - who cares, it's not like BHVR listen to their input, are they?

Nah they only kick dbags who are toxic to people on stream then don't have the sack to man up and own it.

@@BabysitterSky how was tru3 toxic to anyone🤣and so making a harmless silly voice means hes a dbag does it😂 scott jund white night i see

@@c.mcxrdle5224 He's using "toxic" word unironically. This is how insecure people on the Internet have become. He wants to ban everyone with different view and live in his safe space full of sunshine and unicorns.

It’s true. Like Scott Jund said, in “competitive” DBD the survivors don’t mind game, they drop pallets instantly and get as much distance as possible. If the survivors are efficient this gives them more than enough time to complete all the gend

The problem is that the loops are so inconsistent. Some loops are ultra unsafe and guarantee a free hit for even a mediocre killer- why do those loops even exist? The game just said, here's your one defense that you are supposed to have but, nomatter what you do its not going to work and you're still getting hit- go find a different loop and maybe it's more balanced. There is nothing to even mindgame there- you are getting hit. There is no consistency to distance between loops; some former/years old stealth maps (before aura perks/addons became so common for killers) are now 100% brightness and never got loops added... so you're running light years between them and without an exhaustion perk you're guaranteed to take a hit between loops regardless of how well you did on the previous one. Then you've got the fact that all of the pallet locations randomly change on top of it all.

OhTofu is really good at giving productive criticism to this game, glad he is a fog whisper

There was another buuuut...

@@HelterSeltzer_the_one who?

@@rossslothboody3353 TrueTalent

@@lumbeegamer7065 Lol definitely not him, bitching and crying isn't helpful criticism.

Not really. The reason why these killers are introduced is because of gen speeds dictating the the killer must be able to hit a survivor every singe time. Not a single killer that has a power focused more towards the 1V4 is good enough to simply not be oppressive at the 1v1. Also, on a scale of oppressiveness, Nemesis is closer to Huntress than Deathslinger.

@@desolatorstorm142 i would agree about nemesis and huntress, but blight, hag, and hillbilly are all great in the 1v4 and not super oppressive in the 1v1 while still being viable. In fact, the only two S ranked killers in the game, spirit and nurse, dominate the 1v4 and 1v1 due to the natural mobility that comes with their powers and how quickly they can down. To truly be a killer that can handle the best teams in the current game a killer has to dominate in both the 1v4 and 1v1. I would say the best competitive killers actually have to be good at 1v4, with their 1v1 game then determining how high they rank on the competitive list.

@@truegod1066 Blight is semi-oppressive in the 1v1. He actually has great chase power while having arguably the strongest 1v4. Hag's traps take out looping from the game, which is what the 1v1 is. Hillbilly is not strong. He's just a high mobility M1 killer that might be able to instant down in circumstances where the survivor is out of position more than needed for an m1. His saving grace is the the 50/50 pallet mindgames with the chainsaw and a degree of zoning, but that's not enough to come close to good teams.

@@desolatorstorm142 As i said how good a killer is in the 1v1 as well usually determines how good they r overall. Blight is generally considered the 3rd best killer in the game and hag the fourth. Billy is still considered by most to be somewhat upper tier or above average even though he mostly only has mobility. While killers like clown, deathslinger, and even nemesis, which are considered very good in the 1v1, are generally considered slightly above average to below average because of their lack of mobility. I agree that these killers have to excel at the 1v1 to even be viable cause they have little to no 1v4 game. Honestly the devs should give all killers some mobility as well as chase capacity, unless they r unique like hag, however this would likely make every killer feel very standard and get stale really quickly.

@@truegod1066 I think Demo is one of the few killer who have both in his kit but sadly his mobility side of the power take so much time setting up for not much result.

Great write-up man. You've summed it up perfectly. I will say of the recent batch of killers I do feel like the nemesis chase is more fun than pyramid head or deathslinger.... assuming a roaming zombie doesn't come and fuck it up. That said its early yet and maybe killers just don't know how to play him 100% effectively yet in such a way that he becomes super unfun. I love going against Huntress so every time I play against Deathslinger it makes me that more frustrated since they made such a vastly better designed ranged killer already..

I have to disagree a bit with Nemesis. The fact that he has a 1.5 second cooldown when releasing his power without using it, and that his power has a limited range and a narrow hitbox, definitely gives survivors a bit more counterplay. At some pallets he can be very similar to huntress, where you have to predict whether the survivor will drop the pallet or not. With vaults things get much more difficult. If Nemesis is heading towards the vault from a straight angel, for example the shack vault, he will hit you as soon as you are locked in to the animtation vault, at least I think he can use his ability fast enough to do so. However, if he is coming from an angle, he will have to pull out his ability before the survivor starts the vaulting animation, or he won't be able to get a hit in time. Then there's the cooldown. I think one counterplay against Nemesis is to fake a window or pallet vault, and then Nemesis has two options. He can either try to hit you with his ability nevertheless, which gives you at least the chance to dodge his attack. Or he deactivates his ability, which results in a 1.5 second cooldown, long enough to vault the window or pallet. But I haven't done it myself yet, since I only played against him the first day he released, so I am not sure how reliable that counterplay is, especially if he tries to bodyblock the vault. I do think Nemesis is better than killers like Deathslinger or Pyramid Head, when it comes to counterplay. But his counterplay is still more limited and a bit more situational than with other killers. I do like the idea that survivors have a second objective that allows them to take a third hit when being chased by Nemesis though. Also, if any of the ranged killers miss an attack, I am pretty sure the punishment is just as long as for Huntress. I personally think Nemesis is fine, but I do agree that he could be improved. If they improved his zombies to patrol gens better, and maybe increased the time it takes to vaccinate, they could then weaken his chase potential a bit by giving him a slightly longer activation time before he can use his ability. Arguably the same that huntress has so that he has to activate his ability before a survivor starts vaulting a pallet or window if he wants to get a hit on those survivors.

@@ad_-yk9bz he can hit you in places, like all loops shorter than survivors, without the survivor having any chance of getting out, and a 1.5 second cool down where you still move about 4.0 m/s isn’t as big a deal as people say. And hitting angles isn’t as hard as you said

Hits aren't guranteed, and if they miss their ranged attack they lose distance meaning you've gotten more time to loop them. Also if we excuse pyramidhead if you break line of sight their ability becomes useless. And in deathslinger's case you can hug anything in the map to not get reeled in, sure you get injured but it isnt really a disadvantage with things like dead hard. All of this to say that bhvr is making a new type of killer and people hate change so videos like this are made

I still play blight and I love the hell out of him

although undying was quite literally the most broken perk ever added to the game tho. That's like survivors having the most fun when the halloween chapter was added.

Actually, that chapter was hated upon until recently, when Blight's FOV was finally fixed. I still absolutely hate him though (:

@@Predated2 undying was the most broken perk? You must have not been around for old decisive strike

@@chroniclestudios6873 he talked about the Halloween chapter being the most fun for survivors because it introduced decisive strike

also a doc main. IDK what he's talking about, doc is fucking OP as hell if you know how to use him correctly.

factual statement

I've mostly needed to use Demogorgon to combat the hold W thing for cutting them off and as you know, his shred. It's doing fine but it still isn't that fun

i agree with you disagreeing

Best comment

Not a damn thing Tofu said was the least bit true. No killer is difficult to avoid their hits or defeat; Survivors are quite simply lazy pieces of crap who don't want to lose.

So in your opinion killers can just have fun but not Survs?? The only thing that is fun in this game for survs is looping, so why should u not looping?? U seem to be so stupid in my opionin, so plz take your stupid killer mains arguments to a other place

@@savevsdeath poor poor killer. Survs can not play the game becuse then its unfun and broken omfg

I usually just bait pallets as much as i can so when he thinks i drop it he will just end up wasting time because I don't drop it

Man i can tell your newish to the game

Pallets and windows are his only power though. Zombies are too random to rely on them, they work better as a radar than actual threat unless you play indoor maps. He is very underwhelming.

Sucks to suck

Because theres so many safe pallets for survivors, without a way to deal with them/loops it would take way too long for a killer to do anything. nemesis allready takes ages to down people with his tentacle

Before I absolutely hated blight with the ‘impossible’ hits he does around corners until Otz released a video on how it works and how to do it. It still annoys me as a survivor but he is one of the few fun killers to play against. His chase style is different and he bounces around walls really fast which forces you to think on what the next path the killer take. Meanwhile these new killers are just bland and frustrating (except for the zombies they’re fun but only the zombies). Trickster is just nerfed huntress?? Nemesis is pretty much downgraded pyramid head to me and PH is more fun to verse because his attacks are relatively slow and it feels good to dodge his thicc beam attack. Meanwhile chunky nemi poo has the tiniest, pathetic tentacle thing ever.

yup

2v6 would be more fun

i agree completely. i feel like every killer past oni (excluding blight) has one big issue that's so deeply engrained in their design that they can't simply be fixed with a little tweak.

and revert billy

Keep pyramid head and we have a deal

@@therealshumbucket lol no way even he has to go.

@@OprationMintyHippo nah he’s fine. Everyone else can go

When are we getting another big brain killer like Trapper or Hag again... The killers these days are just "haha i use power at chase and you die" We need more gimmicky strategical killers

What are you dingos saying sorry But first blight is geometry to hit them Nemesis plays forcing people into zombies while the range attack is the smallest line it's super simple to juke Trapper is my main but your placing traps in the same places every time on loops and shack hag is the same but loops are hooks

@@Muuony someone's never played hag properly

I'm sorry with getting 4 survivors arevegely as hag is wrong also rank 1 killer

@@Muuony i said "properly". Your average kill rate and rank are irrelevant if you believe all hag traps are good for is spamming on hooks. That's not how you do it, and it only works against bad survivors.

"How dare he speak negatively of our perfect game?!" -Morons who have no idea what they're doing

Or when Scott make a video about this, just like happened to Tru3

Scott's video didn't get him removed from the Fog Whisperers, it was what he said that was interpreted a certain way that got him removed when revealed by Scott, the same happened to someone else that did the same voice

@@mrmisses1113 Scott and his gf pushed a false narrative and made personal attacks against tru. It was never about spirit gameplay

@@alucardhellsing666 that just isn’t true his gf said something wrong bc she didn’t understand the situation but Scott said multiple times the reason tru was removed from the fog whisperers doesn’t make sense.

That's the whole point of it being a casual and not competetive. You have no idea ever what match you're gonna play, on what map, with what rng, with what teammates/opponents etc. There is not ranked/casual queue (which will prob never happen for plenty of reasons) there is no map selection only offerings what usually can put killer in disadventage more often then survivors. And casual game doesn't mean that certain characters or game don't have a depth to it. You can master survivor or a killer and push it to the limits but you are limited by the game mechanics like windows, loops and just time. This game on high level is time managment and efficiency.

@Antero And I would contend that anything that you can put thousands of hours into and still be considered casual is inherently competitive. My dude, I can tell the type of tiles we could be running at a glance. I know how many laps my 4.6ms killers will have to make to get the hit. I know after the first chase whether this will only result in a pallet drop or a down and I’m _still_ surprised nearly every time I play. Yes there’s a lot of rng and an opponent that has mastered the killer your playing will know the most effective build and strategy and be able to guess which add-on’s you’re running. But this proves my point. It takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to know what the possibilities are for all the maps and hundreds more to learn everything about just the most popular killers. Anything, and I mean anything that takes that lvl of dedication cannot be casual. You have to identify immediately what rng you have, while discovering your opponents’ strategy and perks. Then use this info to develop a winning strategy. Only then can you even begin to work on your time management. That’s the game at the highest level.

@@ryanmaxwell5076 and yet most of the people are not gonna do most of the things you mentioned because they just want to have fun and not sink so many hours in the game. And most of the killers or survivors I meet in the game are not the ones you describe. You can't balance as easily this game because both sides have different characters and objectives. 5v5 games no matter if they are casual or not can balance things out for the most part easier because the goal of both teams is the same (usually) and they both can pick the same champions/chaeacters. The only thing both sides have the same is map they play on. Not the powers, not the objetives, not the perks. And that's the thing you can focus on because it's universal for both sides.

Also on personal level I don't enjoy feeling like I'm on the clock all the time I just enjoy chases from both sides. I play all killers, often just with bbq for points because I rarely care about winning the game, I enjoy interaction between players and variety of killers. It does not mean that I do not enjoy winning and that I do not try to win, it's just not my priority.

@Antero As I said in OP, it is _my opinion_ that DBD isn’t _just_ a casual game. There’s too much information going on in any given match for that an experienced player to take advantage of to support such an opinion. If I discover your perks and add-on’s/items early, and you can’t or aren’t capable of doing it to me that’s a *massive* advantage to me regardless of either of our abilities to use our avatars. And that alone takes hundreds of hours to learn because of character diversity and customization. It’s *not* the case that every match will be “fair”. But that can be said for any game. Take your example of a 5v5 game for instance. Ok sure, the teams can have identical goals and abilities and also are play on the same map. Fair, right? Well.. not necessarily. Sometimes just the spawn location can give you an incredibly strong advantage over an opponent. Any CS or COD fans can attest to that. No, dbd isn’t casual. It’s very complicated and very random. But not _so_ random as to not have the ability to make any predictions possible. That’s literally what the meta is. A counter to the opponents’ most optimal play. For example: BT and DS are popular because the best strat to win for killer (barring those perks existing) would be to tunnel off the hook. Why Soul Guard or Unbreakable? Because if you can’t tunnel, (because of DS and BT) then it’s best to slug. They are popular because players predict (correctly) that if the game goes well for them, slugging and/or tunneling is what the killer will have to resort to in order to secure kills. This is also why killers love PGTW and Ruin so much. If the survivor group is smart there will be at least 1-2 ppl on gens at all times. I agree and thought I made clear in OP that not every game will be competitive. That’s ok by me. You will undoubtedly face off against players both far above and below your current ability. And that’s absolutely when you should either sweat your ass off or take it very easy. And thats what is so great about this game imho. That there is such a gap in skill that I can afford to take it easy, get my 12 hooks and get quad iri emblems some matches. _Or_ have to employ every mind game, trick and trade I’ve learned just to get a 1k. Or use what I’ve learned along with my build to save a game from an otherwise highly oppressive killer. That’s also why it’s my opinion, that with a few minor restrictions, you can (and they do) make a very entertaining and engagingly fair tournaments. But yes, not everyone is on the same level. In fact I’d say you need at least 500hr to consider yourself not a “casual” dbd player at this point. But that’s still hundreds of hours away from most ppl being able to play at the aforementioned peak of their potential. No, every game isn’t and shouldn’t be a completely optimal sweat-fest. But the game can absolutely be played that way. I’m not really that great and I still managed to find dozens of competitive games everyday I play. Along with dozens of chilled casual games. Dbd might be the first and only game I can safely say lies somewhere between casual and competitive. It can be either, and you have no idea until at least that first chase what your about to encounter. And even then you can be completely bamboozled by a sneaky end-game-build or something. Which you can even anticipate and mitigate if you’re wise and organized.

How can Nemesis, Clown, Trickster & Legion be fun? Nem: Hit survivor 3 times. Clown: Just throw bottles. Trickster: A bad Huntress and Legion: A 4s cooldown every time you use their power. There isn't much fun in playing them IMO. As for playing against them. Nemesis: hold w, Clown: hold w and start running as soon as he see you, Legion: Get hit 1000 times and mend, Trickster is the only one with some mind game/skill as you need to use object/wall to protect you but again he's just a weaker huntress that throw faster.

@@Boby9333 I mean the short answer to your question is implied in your observations... fun killers aren't for you, you derive fun by as they call it, "being sweaty." The longer answer would be to think about why you are even playing dbd in the first place? All the criticisms you just levied at specific killers could be reduced to why are you even playing dbd? This game will never be DOTA, or League, or CS. They tried that with Evolve and it killed the game. 1 v 4 cannot be competitively balanced, you might as well be trying to solve world hunger. It can be fun though. Survivor side it's a game of hide and seek where you are a toddler running from a cheetah. If you are playing on the killer side it's a game of chasing said toddlers around the map while the other toddlers hold m1 until you either lose or win. I mean, far be it for me to dictate how you have fun, so if by seemingly from your comment your "fun" in the game is winning then you simply are not supposed to be playing Nem, clown, trickster, and legion. You can win with those killers, but if what you find to be fun is winning as much as possible you should stick to the powerful killers and just chase the meta. For them to fix Nem, clown, trickster, and legion IE. make them more competitive, they would have to cripple what makes them unique and streamline them. This is effectively what happened to the killer that everyone loves to play known as "The Nightmare" aka Freddy. In order to make him competitive they removed everything that made him unique and effectively removed a style of gameplay. The only reason players played him for a while after they removed his uniqueness was because he was turn your brain off and tunnel (pre BT changes) with add on gen regression which since it has been removed has just made him a boring Demo, hence no one plays him anymore and players just shifted to Demo. Freddy was fine before, he just wasn't for players like yourself. You have spirit, nurse, hag, blight, and huntress, why do you need 30 killers to turbo mode tryhard when the gameplay boils down to the same thing if you're sweating? As to answer your questions specifically, Nemesis has zombies, you completely ignored that. Zombies are the biggest fun factor in Nemesis. Clown much like doctor is satisfying to mess people up with. Saying I'd rather just run Huntress is the argument of "Just use a Sniper Rifle" in an fps while Trickster is the machine gun, especially when you get those clutch main event plays. It's cool if you want to do 360 no scopes and what not, but some people just want to hose people, in this case with knives. For obvious balance reasons in both cases, the hosing takes more hits then the precise shot (if you can call the hitboxes in this game precise....) Lastly Legion, it can be fun to wound everyone very quickly and his high mobility keeps you busy. His power also has some of the best mobility in terms of absolute control even if it doesn't have the immediate lethality that killers like billy or oni have. If you think that's not fun chasing everyone down then I guess just stick to Nurse, because Legion is hardly the only killer that actually has to chase. And the notion that Legions high mobility is useless is just an indicator of the ridiculous power creep of highly mobile and highly lethal killers created by Spirit and Blight. Not my problem though, like I said you have your killers, please don't get mine Freddied. If Nem could 2 hit survivors with his tentacle, what would be the point of Phead? Phead doesn't get zombies that can shut down gen work while he's off somewhere else smacking people. How would you even fix clown, he already shuts down loops and can speed boost himself, should he be able to blink as well or phase? If Trickster could down people at range as quickly as Huntress while just spraying people down, why even bother with Huntress or Deathslinger? If Legion could just drop people with his feral frenzy, what would be the point of blight, wraith, billy, or even bubba? If the Frenzy had no cooldown, you could just Frenzy up to survivors and cancel ending it right next to every survivor you come across. They aren't getting very far without a speed boost of a hit and with spammable frenzy you just hit, continue chase, and then cancel next to them when they are in a bad spot. You can do this now, but the cooldown will prevent you from doing it constantly. While we're at it let's just remove the cloak/uncloak delay on wraith, it'd be about the same thing. You don't like Nem then play Phead. You don't like Clown then play Doctor. You don't like Trickster then play Huntress or Deathslinger. You don't like Legion then play Blight or billy or even Oni. As someone who does love fun killers, I really hope they don't go through and lobotomize every killer like what they did to my man Freddy. It is entirely possible that some of us if not most of us do not find it particularly "fun" to gen rush or kill everyone. Many of us just want to have fun, doing whatever it is that we happen to find fun in that moment of gameplay. That's what video games are effectively made for in the first place. I don't need the devs to tell me what is fun. Holding M1 or running like a hamster on a treadmill to get a 4k isn't fun to me. And i'd prefer people like yourself didn't push the devs to gear the game towards those two styles of gameplay only and kill the game like what happened to evolve. Play with your killers and leave mine alone. P.S. The hold w meta has evolved from them specifically shrinking maps and removing a lot of pallets/removing strong loops. This was in an effort to help players like yourself who felt there were too many second chances for survivors. This means survivors only option often is to hold w, unless you would just prefer they stand under hooks for you? This is exactly what I'm talking about though. Much like with Freddy, the map redesigns have changed the meta to be more boring and removed more skill based play. As above, I don't really care because I'm not sweaty, but the hold w meta is literally what turbo mode killers were begging for with the map redesigns. Now they're asking for increased gen times. I mean why don't they just remove exit gates and the hatch too? We could just make 4ks guaranteed and make the new meta how fast you can speed run killing everyone I guess...

Yup Killers against good survivors just feel so impotent, especially on a lot of the safer or easier loops it feels like the killers are just playthings rather than a killer.

@Swedish Ghostface but wouldn't that mean that most people play this game for fun rather than to win? If holding W is such a powerful tactic, even if it is boring, why wouldn't someone do it if it increases their chances of a win? That leads to the question of who outnumbers who? Players who play for fun? Or players who play to win? I've been playing since just after Pyramid Head was released and From what I have seen, it's evenly split 50/50.

Not true at all. His attack is easy to dodge, it’s reactable, you can pre drop pallets, run around a pallet break los and when he walks through with his sword throw the pallet down on him. You shouldn’t be vaulting windows against him either that’s a dumb move.

cuz not everyone is just like you (thank God). this place would be boring if that was the case.

people will play even Mario Party hyper-competitively. it's the nature of games where one person can win and another can lose. Even on cooperative games people will compete to see who is better at completing the objective on their team.

It’s a pvp game

Deadass?

They probably have trouble finding it

Well thats because the map is like a maze so finding the last gens are impossible and also frame rates are garbage on console i played it in custom games and it was fun for the first few games but then i got tired of the constant lagging and trouble finding legitimately anything

problem one- early game is the most important for killer and utterly neutering them like this would just make the gens fly even faster since all of the pressure is already on them and zero on the survivors. problem two- mid to late game is oppressive enough for survivors if they aren't winning yet. Ramping the killer like this will just make things utterly hopeless and they'll simply give up or dc. problem three- this actually wouldn't fix what he's discussing at all, you'd just end up at the same issue a bit later into the match. problem number four and the biggest, IMO- this change is extremely biased. It'd be like saying that gen speeds should be slower until survivors escape X amount of chases or something. If people truly want balance then the core of the game should be addressed above all else and biases like these need to be avoided at all costs.

@@richt7525 bias as in? im both a killer and survivor with most of the adepts for both. those were SOME changes, and some killers can do great early game and some cant, thats just how it is. i think maps changing is a great idea, but i wouldnt say survivors are hopeless. you just cant EXPECT 4 survives or 4 kills everygame. a big point of how and why everything is so confusing is because of the unclear win condition. pips? survival? killing? hooking? ETC. these are just ideas and from MY skill level (meaning higher ranks on BOTH sides, red in killer usually is EZ and most of the time in purple for survivor for me cause of time constraints) and I honestly do not find many issues you mention. yes some gens go fast, MOST killers are lacking a power thats useful at all so i think a spike would help, and for already strong killers like oni or spirit they could have LESS defining features in a later level power. and for your gen speed for chase comment, the early game collapse has already mentioned this type of change. so you being apprehensive about it means nothing. and for the early game comment, honestly my idea dosnt change killer powers level 1. so it would be the exact same as it is now.

​@@cjflight92 The changes you propose are biased in that they wholly change only one side, the killer, and in a devastating way. And survivors only feel powerless if towards the end of the match they are few in number or all on death hook. Those changes would exacerbate that and indeed lead to just more dcs. Gen speeds are a nonfactor in EGC, for what should be obvious reasons. And I don't think you understand what problem number 1 meant: at the start of a match the killer has all of the pressure on them, and the survivors have none. The killer absolutely needs their strong power to secure a down to start reversing the pressure. The suggested changes make that even more difficult than it already is and would heavily flip the advantage to the survivors. That's bias.

@@richt7525 im not sure how much you play but suvivors for 90% of the cast HAVE the power now. bad teammates = bad games, and not in the sense that you CANNOT win, 1 hooks. wasted pallets, quick downs, are the factors i mention. but for the most part any killer facing coordinated teams and decent loopers will lose all the time. even after my said proposal. if you think killers are powerful watch drowsey or tru's VS match of oracle. they cannot do ANYTHING.

Doctor is Not that Bad.When played perfect He is pretty annoying,but it's often fun to Play against him,because the majority of doctor Player are shocking to Mop up.But Deathslinger is still my least favourite Killer,because he absolutely Destroys my favourite Mac-Millan Maps with His Shooting over every Loop.I hate him so much.And even Trickster is Weak,but so annoying,because he is Just spamming His Power.With Slinger you need Skill,but He is a braindead Spammer.Nemesis,Trickster, Twins,Blight, Pyramid Head and Slinger are the least released Killer and only Blight is perfect.The other ones are designewise a catastrophe.Sorry for all Mains of These Killer,but I hate These Killer so much

As it should be, if you arent efficient why should you be able to win

These Killers are the Reason,why killermains complain about the Holding W Meta or Genrushing.Annoying Killers Like Deathslinger,Pyramid Head,Trickster get genrushed,because No one enjoy Chases against them and people want to get in the next round

Yea, I've played around 200 hours and got to red ranks on killer (late night matchmaking is so bad). I went against a swf that had 2k, 4k and 8k hours as Wraith. They never even tried to play a tile. They just predropped every pallet instantly, even when I was uncloaked. I even had pretty fast chases with them. But man, going against survivors that know how to efficiently hold m1 on a generator is soul crushing.

@@Lord_of_Bones shadow dance, serpent, and run enduring spirit fury. Highly doubt they’ll be giving pallets for free like that then when you can chew through them

Why would you chase the guy dropping all the pallets?

@@shear3644 if u look at comp dbd that’s all everyone on the team does, it’s a clear fundamental problem with the game

@@momoseventh "I can't chase a guy around the whole map and still win the game waaah. I can't down every survivor in a minute waaah."