Bevel Up or Bevel Down Handplanes

  Рет қаралды 16,781

wortheffort

wortheffort

5 жыл бұрын

When starting out should you choose a bevel up plane or bevel down. The common joke is that the wood doesn't care but you actually might depending upon what you make and the environment you'll use it in. There is much more physics and body mechanics involved in these designs than you'd think.
Note: the video is a mashup of sections of several early "tips" videos on a related subject that I felt got buried in the series so fans of that "WW'nTIps-n-Tricks" might have seen this material before.
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Пікірлер: 102
@alanyoung7532
@alanyoung7532 2 жыл бұрын
A very fair and balanced presentation and I actually like the opening comment that the wood does not care which way the bevel faces. Basically its horses for courses and personal preference.
@57hound
@57hound 5 жыл бұрын
Discovered your channel recently. I really enjoy the thorough coverage you give to every subject. IMHO, this is one of the best woodworking channels on KZfaq. Thanks!
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@gordroberts53
@gordroberts53 3 жыл бұрын
Until yesterday when I was looking to purchase a plane, did not know there was such a thing as bevel up, so no opinion. That being said the look of bevel down is more familiar to me but I did learn a lot. I have a number 4 bevel down now and was looking for a 5 or 6 for rough levelling slabs. More research and thinking required. Thanks always for sharing, I love the detail you provide in every video. Cheers!
@markp6062
@markp6062 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting info and I'm glad you showed that each has its own strengths an weaknesses. Great video! Thanks!
@normansidey5258
@normansidey5258 5 жыл бұрын
Really love your style, you do make it worth the effort, thanks from the UK 🇬🇧
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@barkinghazelnuts
@barkinghazelnuts Жыл бұрын
This was an excellent video. I learnt so much. Thank you.
@roberthornwoodturner
@roberthornwoodturner 5 жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation. Very unbiased.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@jimcooney9019
@jimcooney9019 5 жыл бұрын
never had anybody describe it like that to me before awesome. I was surprised at your choice at the end.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@rolandharrison5651
@rolandharrison5651 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man. You’re putting out some really interesting and informative info. I like that you dig into the why instead of just the how. The evolution of tools just makes the tool more relevant. Thanks for the insight. BTW, I love that T-shirt. Could you please tell me how to get one?
@kerryschoolfield1537
@kerryschoolfield1537 Жыл бұрын
Really helpful video. As I’m considering a Jackplane purchase. Thankyou
@sanramondublin
@sanramondublin Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much. You solved my problem on decision making. I go for the low angle, as a new person with a big plane. I have been getting by with small block plane. And realy thanks millions for the history and the why. Greetings from California.
@th34lch3m1st
@th34lch3m1st 5 жыл бұрын
Great explanation as always. All of this concepts in one single video, explained by you, are a pure joy. Bevel up or bevel down? I'm a tool fetishist, I would simply have it all. I rarely do big works on big chunk of wood, so more often than not the first plane I grab is my low angle block plane (tiny multipurpose tools are my favorites). Thanks for sharing, pleasure is all mine.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
LA veritas block is my favorite, most used, hand plane.
@christopherharrison6724
@christopherharrison6724 Жыл бұрын
I’m a shed hobbyist and don’t own a planner ,so I do exactly what you described and I only have bench planes no bevel up planes.Thanks for your analysis and expertise.
@markhep
@markhep 5 жыл бұрын
I have both but the one that I put in my van is the new one to tidy up after the electric planner love watching your videos and I dident even notice the thumb hole tilll now lol 👍
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Shape of cap has a hand hold too.
@1jlquinn
@1jlquinn 5 жыл бұрын
Very good vidio...just the right amount of detail. One of the best you have done. I've got to get one of those stubby screwdrivers.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks, mine came from Lee Valley.
@grandadz_forge
@grandadz_forge 5 жыл бұрын
Meaty information. Thanks again
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@nealwalden3543
@nealwalden3543 5 жыл бұрын
Great info, well described. I own both types and like both types.... I will say the currently sold German wooden planes, have their irons set at 50 degrees and that makes a huge difference on hardwood/figured wood... A feature often not well promoted.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Ya, high angles are great for figured wood.
@heidbumbee1689
@heidbumbee1689 5 жыл бұрын
Good stuff as always. "bench about Knuckle height".... You have no idea how long I spent failing to find that out when I was building my shed / workbenches 9 years ago. Would have saved me from hours of shuffling up and down with different tools trying to imagine what would be the best bench height! Then again my knuckles drag along the ground when I walk so I suppose there is no one size fits all .....
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks, though I think from your description you might be interested in a Japanesse style woodworking bench. :)
@DumpsterMarcus
@DumpsterMarcus 5 жыл бұрын
great video!!
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@user-gq6fu5kh1l
@user-gq6fu5kh1l 4 ай бұрын
I love my Millers Falls #4.
@prsearls
@prsearls 3 жыл бұрын
That was excellent. I have a serious deficiency in hand tool knowledge, especially planes. I have Dad's 4-1/2 Stanley, probably purchased in the 1940's. I'm mainly a power tool guy I guess.
@rolandharrison5651
@rolandharrison5651 2 жыл бұрын
While watching this great video, I was thinking, ( I know, that can be dangerous). You mentioned bench height, maybe you could put dog feet on the bottom of a board of plywood fitted to the dog holes on the bench to raise the working height. Adding other boards with matching holes could add multiple height adjustments. For easy storage just keep them together on the dog feet. Might work?
@jasonvillnave3687
@jasonvillnave3687 3 жыл бұрын
Great video! How do you like the Veritas low angle jack? I am trying to decide between that and the Lie-Nielsen version.
@jmp116
@jmp116 5 жыл бұрын
Best intro ever lol 🤣😋
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Oscar worthy I'd say.
@barnshopproductions7132
@barnshopproductions7132 5 жыл бұрын
Alrighty then! I can already see the red carpet and a little golden figure in your future. Wow! lol.
@siobahnquinn7461
@siobahnquinn7461 5 жыл бұрын
Yes. Really good work. Quite creative.
@siobahnquinn7461
@siobahnquinn7461 5 жыл бұрын
wortheffort - Absolutely!
@909sickle
@909sickle 5 жыл бұрын
Very much more comfortable indeed >)
@danmottesheard5294
@danmottesheard5294 5 жыл бұрын
great info as usual. I don't own a low angle jack plane of that size but I will soon. thanks
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
You'll like it.
@danmottesheard5294
@danmottesheard5294 5 жыл бұрын
@@wortheffort where did you get the screwdriver. I've been looking for that thing for quite a while
@brettclark8020
@brettclark8020 5 жыл бұрын
Great video! What's that cool stubby driver that you used to tighten the chip breaker screw?
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
driver from lee valley.
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 5 жыл бұрын
I have several planes, but haven't used them much yet (as I am building a shed in which to work you can see the progress on my KZfaq channel) but I do have two old wooden planes with Marples blades that I really like. They are off course bevel up.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Bevel Up? If the bed is at about 45 degrees then try them bevel down. It'll be much easier to push as bevel up would turn it almost into a scraper. I haven't seen any bevel up woodies before. Doesn't mean they aren't out there though.
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 5 жыл бұрын
@@wortheffort Oops... I meant bevel down...
@sebastienmgn2968
@sebastienmgn2968 5 жыл бұрын
my budget prefer bevel down plane because they are easy to find in flea market
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
more common
@kle2217
@kle2217 2 жыл бұрын
I’m new to hand planes, and was debating between getting the low angle jack plane or a dedicated Bailey 5 1/2 jack plane for a first purchase. I’m a small statures male and a little concerned about any weight issues.
@christopherharrison6724
@christopherharrison6724 Жыл бұрын
It’s very rare I adjust my frog on my Stanley.
@GeeDeeBird
@GeeDeeBird Жыл бұрын
Couldn't you change the handle angle on end jack plane? Thanks for what you do! BTW, I just ordered my first hand planer. I'm getting the Lie Nielsen 60 1/2 Rabbet Bench Plane. I figure it will be a good apron plane that can also clean rabbets and joints. What do you think?
@SkylersRants
@SkylersRants 5 жыл бұрын
Yes, you did a really good job being neutral. I was surprised at your choice at the end.
@rjamsbury1
@rjamsbury1 5 жыл бұрын
I only have bevel down Baileys and wooden planes but would love to add a bevel up sometime. If for no other reason than they are very uncomfortable to hold for chuting!
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Look into a miter plane if you want a dedicated shooter.
@rjamsbury1
@rjamsbury1 5 жыл бұрын
@@wortheffort thanks for the suggestion Shawn. Just had a quick look on ebay and they start at £200 going up to thousands... Would a rebate plane work well maybe? I have a couple of wooden skewed blade ones?
@peterleffler2062
@peterleffler2062 5 жыл бұрын
As someone who knows very little about the subject I would say - We'll, who knew there was so much to know about wood planes? I'd also say your presentation was unbiased, interesting and informative. Thank you.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@watermain48
@watermain48 5 жыл бұрын
Maybe it's because I'm both old and old-fashioned. I prefer the good old bevel down version. I have one plane with a Norris style adjuster and it just doesn't work well for me.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
ya, norris always feel finicky to me.
@alexzioek9680
@alexzioek9680 3 жыл бұрын
For someone planning upon building a set of traditional european, wooden planes ana a moderate in size (first) bench what is a better choice as a single plane? A modern bedrock no. 6 or a low angle jack (modern stanley SH)? My issues are is the low angle jack long enough for flattening the sole of a wooden jointer, can it accomplish the build of a bench, finally won` t the lack of chipbreaker give me objectionable tear-out? Clearly I want to make my own plandes but a tarting point is needed here, I can only buy one plane (+ the blades) for the beginning. Thanks in advance!
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 3 жыл бұрын
See my “planes are stupid” video.
@alexzioek9680
@alexzioek9680 3 жыл бұрын
@@wortheffort Very nice video. I appreciated the content really! Didn` t find an answer yet though... Best regards!
@dougberrett8094
@dougberrett8094 5 жыл бұрын
Prefer the bevel up if sharpened correctly, and that is NOT by hand. Adjust the blade so that it sticks out a ways from the plane and then clamp the plane to your drill press table with one side against the table. This holds the blade with adjustment available while a hollow grind is put on the blade using a small diameter grinding wheel in the drill press. Besides being very sharp, the hollow grind makes sure that the “bevel” contacts the wood only on the edge and not on the heal.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Sideways pressure on drill bit sounds dangerous to me.
@dougberrett8094
@dougberrett8094 5 жыл бұрын
If it were a drill bit and the pressure was high, it would be dangerous. The pressure on the small (2” diameter) stone is very light. Try to take only .001” per pass. If the pressures were higher I would use the mill which is made specifically for side pressure. The plane body is acting like a fixture to hold the blade vertical and to allow the very slight feed rates. Some machinists will sharpen a plane blade on a surface grinder. Can get them razor sharp but most do not do the hollow grind. I do not have a surface grinder so drill press was my attempt to get similar results. The blade with the hollow grind cuts extremely well.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
I would recommend a pawn shop slow speed grinder as cheaper more versatile option. Besides, grinder is only for shape. You still need to hone.
@dougberrett8094
@dougberrett8094 5 жыл бұрын
Honing is not really necessary. I almost always hone tools for cutting metal, but seldom hone wood cutters. I do remove the burr, but want the very small teeth that grinding leaves to “saw” the wood. With a hand held blade AKA pocket knife I noticed years ago that a blade sharpened to a razor edge and stropped did not cut wood as well as if the sharpening concluded with the hard Arkansas stone. Barbers who years ago would sharpen a straight razor themselves purposely put the teeth on the blade. Know this for a fact because I read it in a text book for barbers. They do strop but the stone work is done with a eye to forming the teeth. Besides I am primarily a machinist. We approach things differently than woodworkers. Neither side is more right than the other just different because the materials are so different. Enjoy your channel.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Ok I'm leaving your comments because it's a different approach and you are very polite and seem to be talking from experience. But I need to say this sounds needlessly dangerous to me, doesn't add anything to the safer less expensive sharpening methods traditionally used and the idea of not honing in my opinion makes a tool more dangerous as you will then need to force it through wood increasing the likelihood of accidents. Every spoon carver I've ever researched who depends upon knives hone almost constantly to keep the keenest of edge. Any kind of inconsistent "tooth" or serration is actively eliminated. Sharper is safer and results in an edge that lasts longer and provides better results. Something proven through generations. Even in your barber analogy, the moment they honed on the strop all stone evidence and "teeth" are erased. Honing is honing. Stones/abrasives create the shape, honing creates the edge. I shape my edges on a 36 grit wheel, sharpen on 1000-4000, hone at 12,000+. It's how it's been done for millennia.
@mathewanderson2400
@mathewanderson2400 5 жыл бұрын
As a power tool woodworker now getting into hand tool woodworking, I’ve really enjoyed using the bevel down planes. I dont have access (or the $$) for a bevel up. Watching your video, I don’t think I’d have gotten as good at micro adjusting the plane as quickly on a bevel up.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
keep your eyes out for a Stanley 61 I think. Pop up occasionally and nobody is really searching for them. Also most block planes are bevel up.
@williamboyd9985
@williamboyd9985 5 жыл бұрын
Just thought I should tell you that you have a twin here in Virginia. I saw you sawing up a massive locust tree in a guys yard and actually stopped and asked if you were you less than two hours ago. I was not the first to ask that apparently. I admit that him telling me that made me feel less like a moron.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
That wasn't my twin. I do have an alter ego.... :)
@barnabas3652
@barnabas3652 5 жыл бұрын
I prefer the old bevel down plane That is only because I have my grandfather's and it's the only one I've ever used. So if I ever do use a bevel up plane I might change my opinion.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
History is important and.... the wood don't care.
@acalandra1
@acalandra1 3 жыл бұрын
Bevel up. I really hate fussing with chip breakers.
@JerryTraegerSmoker
@JerryTraegerSmoker 5 жыл бұрын
where did you get your screwdriver
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
lee valley
@paulaelli
@paulaelli 2 жыл бұрын
Basically, Get BOTH haha
@dennishughes3250
@dennishughes3250 5 жыл бұрын
"History is important, and the wood dont care" is why I will continue to use my late step-fathers No 4 as my smoothing plane, and my late father in laws No 4 as my scrub plane (not intended, it's just a fierce little plane, fittingly much like he was). And more history in the making as one of my sons bought me a number 5 and my grandsons bought me a number 3. I'm renovating properties a 100 miles away at the moment, those are the only tools that I always take home, along with the coping saw that my Sons bought me when they were about 8 & 11 nearly 25 years ago.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
sharpen and go is the trick
@cornflake73
@cornflake73 5 жыл бұрын
I have both, versatility is better.
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
agreed
@joshuaherdman3612
@joshuaherdman3612 5 жыл бұрын
"Like Bailey's, only better" lol ballsy. I agree with you though!
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
it's true.
@soberlivingwithbrianfrankl8254
@soberlivingwithbrianfrankl8254 5 жыл бұрын
I thought I'd seen this before, made me think I had esp"n" lol. Still a great video
@soberlivingwithbrianfrankl8254
@soberlivingwithbrianfrankl8254 5 жыл бұрын
Oh I have also heard from someone I dont remember, (it was on KZfaq) that you can flip the blade of a traditional plane and get a cheap high angle, I've not tried it but it sounds like it may work.....
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
It'd be at 75* or more then. Might be a bit too high. Might as well use a scraper then.
@dougberrett8094
@dougberrett8094 5 жыл бұрын
Correction. Bevel down not bevel up.
@tacs_01
@tacs_01 5 жыл бұрын
When's the next arty-farty video Shawn?
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Coming up someday. Maybe soon, maybe later.
@MichaelLogutov
@MichaelLogutov 5 жыл бұрын
What about nasty tearouts BU planes can cause without access to chipbreaker?
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Myth, sharpen the thing. People have been using planes w/o chip breakers longer than with. Only came into fashion when mass produced blades became thin and then needed the tension mass added. Look for an earlier video I did on chip breakers and reference micro film from Japan.
@MichaelLogutov
@MichaelLogutov 5 жыл бұрын
​@@wortheffortIsn't that old scientific Japan video prooving that chipbreaker with steep angle located as closest to the edge as you can is the best option? And chipbreaker located far away from cutting edge (or no chipbreaker) will not help preventing tearouts? And about old planes without chibreaker - no one ever prooved that they could takle difficult grain (thats why they invented scrapers).
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Michael Logutov dude, difficult, meaning figured, is a different animal and you know it. Throughout history most HT woodworkers know to use wood conducive to work or go high angle or scrape. You still don’t need chip breakers. History has proven that along wt the fact that earth is round. Stop cherry picking or state what you’re talking about in first place. P.s. remember me discussing the toothing blades for difficult wood and sections?
@MichaelLogutov
@MichaelLogutov 5 жыл бұрын
@@wortheffort well, I'm lost a bit here. On that old scientific video it was proven that chipbreaker helps. But you're saying, that BU planes somehow can overcome this. If you're talking about normal wood and plaining with the grain - that I agree, there is no need for chipbreaker. But if you have to go against the grain or tackle some interlocked grain - then I fail to see why would you choose BU plane over BD. Or you say that BU gets the same amount of tearout as BD while both been fine tune for smoothing and going against the grain?
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Michael Logutov you’re just wanting to cherry pick when something doesn’t work. So I’ll clarify. 98% of time, on woods you use to make furniture, doesn’t matter. If you choose your wood poorly then a chip breaker “might” help but so would using a different angle even up to positive 90 degrees scraping. The what if, “the woods curly”, “the wood reverses”, “You have to go against grain”... there are a miriade of techniques including using a blade wt a perfectly set up chip breaker. Most people I work with would just start out with better wood as why waste your time and effort with difficult wood.
@theusconstitution1776
@theusconstitution1776 5 жыл бұрын
W👁W. ......Yer one EDUCATED DUDE!!!! 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃THANK YOU!❤️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸
@wortheffort
@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@Cuspidor-spit-n-more
@Cuspidor-spit-n-more 2 жыл бұрын
You disappoint me, support what’s tried and right, rather than, new and wrong. Just a thought, don’t fix it if it’s right.
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