DBD idea for Scott- Let's make Leatherface themed gum, sell it, and call it Bubbagum.

I'll be forever cheesed that the piggy has a normal TR and deathslinger has a small ass TR

It looks like the mic is spirits arm lol

I agree with all of this. I never feel like saying it anywhere cause everyone just pulls the "entitled survivor card" but it's not even like they are OP killers, there is just such lack of counterplay and skill when playing against them. Thanks for making this :)

Im trying so hard concentrating on what scott is saying, but with his cats walking across the screen and looking up at camera keeps getting my attention instead lol

If this game was more balanced you would see more variety of killers.

As a survivor main, I feel so entitled whenever I say certain killers are boring and I hate it because I don't like being grouped with those types of survivors

I love how you’re able to empathise with both sides in this game. One of the main sources of toxicity in this game is not having any empathy for the other side. If people are killer mains, they don’t care about the other side, most survivor mains don’t care about killers experiences either, but you strike the perfect balance, which is why BHVR should be listening to you, but of course, they don’t. Either way, keep up the great content

It makes me sad that deathslinger is considered boring cause he's one of the few killers I actually enjoy playing as power wise. I feel like on the killers end it is more fun when you land those really precise and well timed shots and get to reap the rewards for the good shot.

Not boring: having to dodge hatchets, chainsaws, Demo's shred or even Nurse's blinks skilfully Boring: dropping pallets early due to slows (Clown/Freddy), praying every time Spirit phases, Legion as a whole

I heard the intro music and was half expecting Scott to throw bread at my screen while sounding like Huntress.

i feel like we come back to this topic of wanting something nerfed vs wanting something to be made healthier, and sometimes the conflating of the two. people will interpret complaints about spirit or freddy as wanting them "nerfed" when in fact these killers aren't overpowered at all because, as you note in the video, they're perfectly beatable if people stay spread out because that's the most efficient way to play the game the problem is not strong killers. the problem is killers who are strong for the wrong reasons, who have unfair chase mechanics to make up for their terrible map mobility (this is why i tend to be against 110 killers because they almost always end up in this boat) you note pyramid head is deathslinger done better, but i'd argue he's no better (or even worse) than deathslinger because he does the same power faking/free m1 stuff deathslinger does, except against deathslinger a safe pallet is still typically safe once you're injured. a pyramid head can force you into die or die scenarios much more easily because even pallets aren't safe against him; throw a pallet and he hits you with his power, don't throw the pallet and he cancels his power and gets a free hit - same goes for vaulting pallets and windows. he's faster than deathslinger and can hit you through any obstacle without needing to m1 you, so i actually find him much less bearable in chase than deathslinger is because at least i can LoS a deathslinger and take advantage of his slower movement in some scenarios, and while slinger is stronger out in the open, i can at least sometimes do something about him when i'm at a tile either way though i agree with your video and appreciate your bit about hillbilly. i identify a lot with the "i just got outplayed by someone who made the right call in a chase" vs the "i guessed wrong and now i die" stuff

The Majula music from Dark souls 2 immediately caught my ear. Good choice.

I feel this applies to both sides. Most of my favorite killers aren't viable and the ones that are s tier are just boring as hell. And I can only wonder what survivor mains feel...

Dont forget demogorgon dlc and upwards the maps they have added have all been terrible balance wise and generally unfun to play on for one side if not both

I think billy is the most balanced and fun killer to play/go against, I don't get why they're nerfing him....

Yup. The big issue is killers designed to EXCELL in 1v1. The reason spirit is so fucking good is because she has an insanely good 1v1 WITH a map mobility power. That combo is disgustingly good. Deathslinger has great 1v1, but suffers in 1v5 because his power is very much designed around the 1v1 and has nothing to move around the map very quickly. The best part about the gameplay is the chase, and even if a killer isn’t “top tier,” the annoying design of their 1v1 is what gets people angry, understandably, and that’s what makes the killer annoying.

I'm glad you enjoy making these discussion videos, because these are my favorite videos you make.

Boring killers = the one that are actually effective at killing and that i cant loop for 5 years

The only killers I find truly boring are Legion and Freddy. I GET bored with huntress, Billy, etc. But that's just because I see so many of them. Something that could be alleviated by better balancing to allow more killers at different ranks. Everyone complains about Spirit but I have never truly understood this, but then again, I like viewing the game as a horror title rather that a pseudo competitive Nascar simulator

I know I'm probably gonna get backlash for saying this, but I think the term "entitlement" is thrown around way too often nowadays. Don't get me wrong, there definitely are a whole bunch of biased & entitled players in this community, but sometimes it feels like survivors literally aren't allowed to complain about anything (even if its valid criticism regarding the game design) without automatically being dismissed as entitled survivor mains. And while those definitely do exist, there are also lots of survivors that just want the game to be fun and enjoyable for _both_ sides. They're just not as vocal as the salty ones, so you tend not to notice them as often. Edit: Grammar

I get where the complaints about Deathslinger being unfun to face come from, but I kind of doubt it's as bad as most people are letting on. I've had matches with super short chases, and matches where the chases dragged on back to back, and I somehow doubt that's just my aim fluctuating between matches. If anything, I wouldn't call him as bad as Spirit, since getting speared at least doesn't always spell out an imminent hit, unlike misreading a spirit. While not always possible, there's still the potential to break the chain on obstacles, or have your teammates bodyblock as Deathslinger reels in. Regardless, I wouldn't be suprised if his ADS time gets nerfed sometime soon-

Over all, I think this game is definitely about both sides having fun. As a brand-new-to-the-game low-tier-killer main, though, I don't want to feel bad or worry about someone thinking my choice of killer is boring to go against. Getting dailies where I have to play some of the 'boring' killers and then getting flamed in post-game chat, or just generally feeling shameful about it is gross. Valid or not, I don't think the complaints of survivors should get to the point of admonishing playing a significant portion of the killer cast. I don't want to care about whether or not Doctor (my main) forces survivors to play in a certain singular way. Isn't that the point of a lot of killers, to change the playing field in their own unique way? I don't think any players, survivors obviously included, should be shamed and berated for playing who and how they want to play. The match will always end, and we all forget about it.

Honestly this is why many people think Survivor needs to be worked upon. You need more to do as a survivor than just run around loops and hold m1 on stuff. Having to do alternate things for a chase instead of managing pallets and windows would be a great thing to do. And honestly for one of your suggestion videos you should try and do one dedicated for alternate things a Survivor can do. From goals to things to avoid the killer in a chase

Honestly the problem is that the only things survivor do in this game is loop and repair gens. If looping was weaker but they had more ways to combat killers that are more or less strong depending on the killer, the game would be way better and more balanced. Otherwise, the only metric you have to determine if a killer is good or not is if they're good in loops or have good map control, and killers that don't tick those boxes are just never played because they get stomped all the time.

Hillbilly is great example of how killer should be, thats why they are nerfing him to the ground. Slow clapping

So around the 10 minute mark, when you're talking about how killers like Clown and Doctor are 'boring' 'cause they force you to play in a specific way to counter them.... well that's why there's so many killers. So what if there's only a couple ways to counterplay a specific killer? Barring a ridiculous string of (bad?)luck you won't face the exact same killer over and over and over, so your variety of play comes from facing others. You use anti-Clown tactics when facing a Clown, and then switch up your strategy when you face a new one. Come in with perks/items not suited for the killer you got? Oh well, but that's the ever-present risk. On another note, I DESPISE the idea of 'balance' being the homogenization of (nearly) all killers being reduced to running the same tired loops for an M1 in the exact same way. Let the powers be worthwhile.

I enjoy these way more than gameplay aswell! please make more!

I think what's truly boring is being able to use the same set of skills to beat every killer, the variety that spirit, clown, pyramid head, and deathslinger bring make survivor fun to me.

These are by far my favorite things you put out so I am all for more of it 😁

The only time I find a killer to be "boring" is when they camp and tunnel. Even if I'm going against a really good killer they are never "boring". Instead I'm excited to go against them and face a challenge. If the killer is a good spirit/nurse and I literally can't do anything against them to win, I still don't consider the killer "boring". I say this because me an average survivor messing around should never come close to outplaying that killer. The person playing that killer is playing the game at such a high level that someone only as equally efficient can beat. This is where I think it becomes more of a matchmaking issue where a good killer is paired up against 4 solo q's just chillin. Wouldn't it be nice to have an option to select when searching for a game if you just wanted to chill or be super sweaty when you play. All killers to me can be boiled down to a play style that becomes monotonous once you have went against them a ton of times. The game is based around 50/50 decisions where some killers have more options to handle or initialize them. So I see why people think clown and deathslinger are "boring", since everyone plays the one way they can if they want to do good. It's similar to how killers don't want to go against full meta perk survivors, its unfun, predictable, and used a lot. Essentially killers need a variety of ways to be played that allow them to have "fun" and be able to "win".

The thing that worries me most about the road they are taking is that they openly said they like Billy's power and how balanced it is, then proceed to nerf the fuck out of it. I think that just shows how out of touch the devs are with why long term players of this game are still playing and that's worrying. Billy was fun to play as and fun to play against. Strong but counterable and it came down to the better player which is the way it should be. So not only are most of the new killers boring to play against for the reasons mentioned, they take it a step further and fuck with one of the most fun killers to go against. As a survivor main, I want good killers to go against but I want to win or lose through skill, not because guesswork and luck. It makes playing feel pointless when you lose, not because you got outplayed but because there weren't any plays to make in the first place.

Really having fun binge watching your DbD discussion videos.

It’s a shame because Deathslinger is fun to play but boring to go against. Billy: is balanced and fun Devs: how about no

Tier list based off how fun they are to play as/against pleaseeeee

I'm really loving these types of videos, Scott, keep em going. I enjoy the genuine conversations they spark up and I think it's something we desperately need to keep this game from withering. It's not about just one side, it's about the game as a whole. Everyone that is still playing this game just wants to see the game improve.

Alright, I gotta say I very much enjoy these discussion videos. Keep them up!

Another 10/10 commentary video, cant get enough of them

10:30 I agree with what he's saying about wraith. But if a survivor brings spinechill, the attentive part basically gets thrown out the window and then wraith becomes super easy to go against.

I feel like a core issue is how countering killer works. It's either loops, blending, being as efficient as possible nothing. Loops are uninteresting imo

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but do y'all consider why people play these so called 'boring killer's'? Or are killer's just bots that are responsible for survivor's fun? I hate to be that guy, but I feel l that people calling killer's boring is just a way of saying "I hate that I can't loop, or have to use different tactics against certain killer" I play survivor, but I don't hold killer's accountable for my fun and I love going against killer's that actually make me use my brain

this is the feeling i get as killer when i get a team that purely camps every single pallet. if your a killer that doesnt snowball a ton or has an easy way to deal with pallets, you lose. sure, all the survivors's resources get used up, but who needs resources when the game is already over.

Im glad you enjoy talking about this kind of stuff, i absolutely love these videos

Been watching your content for a year now and I just realized I'm not sub so here you go you earned it

Survivors: You’re playing boring you bad player Also survivors: 4 Decisives, 4 Dead Hards, 4 Borrowed Times, 4 Unbreakables

Yes deathslinger ignores your skill, but he needs his own skill to get you with a shot. Spirit on the other hand needs to press M2 and go one way.

These kind of videos are amazing! Keep doing them! Btw for a future video you can talk about the stretched resolution topic 'cause it's a very interesting and hot topic in the community

Hope you do keep doing these- I love discussion videos like this.

I'd love to hear a discussion between you Umbra and Tru3 on these type of subjects because I hear it in the dialog sometimes while all of you stream but, it really would be nice to see some high level players that play both sides of the spectrum talk about changes to improve killer and survivor interactions. Also, thank you, I learned how to play DBD watching your tiles video which helped improve my understanding of the game immensely.

Having to adjust to a new strategy for killers is fine, honestly its JUST spirit that is bs. Its 50/50 whether or not I survive. As someone who runs spinechill I have plenty of time to prepare against any killer. I dont see legion and sigh, I try to get bled first so I can do my gen in peace. Keeping objects between me and deathboy is tense and engaging. And yeah its unreactable, but you can 100% dodge predictions. Not everytime he aims. Yeah survivors want to test their skill, but only on m1 killers with no power. You don't see them complaining about trapper or hag just cucking their loops. Even though it was impossible to avoid without preparing. Survivor is more than playing patty cake with the killer, its stealth and teamwork.

As a hag main a lot of people call me boring. Whilst they may have a point in rare occasions, they're often the ones who make bad plays such as allowing themselves to be pulled off a hook save after triggering my trap and choosing to ignore it.

Some of the trouble is looping is pretty boring to run as a killer. Also running any loops as killer at higher ranks basically guarantees your gonna lose because gens get done so fast you can’t afford to engage the loops; it’s in the hands of the survivors. The issue still comes back to gens. They’re unfun to work on because they’re boring, but they’re too easy to do quickly to play in a “fun” style, i.e. looping with survivors, dropping chases to try to spread pressure, etc. Gens are the root of all the games problems could be eased and killers wouldn’t need to be so built around ignoring loops if they could afford to spend more time in chases. What is actually really like to see is unique add-ons for each survivor to make them play differently, and maybe giving them a special power. Something smaller, but then you could add in more variety to survivor gameplay. That’s also part of the issue, survivor core gameplay is boring because it’s always the same, but killers have variety in gameplay.

1:28 High school in a nutshell

I don’t think these complaints are valid. (With the exception of spirit, she should be nerfed) Survivors who actually think playing against a death slinger, or clown, or doctor is unfun should really stop and consider the other side. How fun do you think it is to go against a team with 16 meta perks, 4 items, and coms? How fun is it to run endlessly around the map, constantly breaking pallets and seeming like you get no closer to hitting them? The same people that complain about unfun killers are the same ones that believe that dead hard and decisive strike are balanced. A good survivor with dead hard is basically untouchable if they are anywhere close to even a filler pallet or loop. And they’re the same ones that will taunt the killer and jump in a locker forcing them to either eat the DS or leave them alone for 60 seconds. From the killers perspective, flashlights can be considered boring to play against too. You skillfully down somebody, and If they aren’t in a position where you’re directly facing a wall, you have 2 options. Chase the guy with the flashlight away and have the downed person get healed, or pick them up and be blinded from 3 different angles. There is quite literally, no in between with good survivors. It’s just like the nurse situation, or the deathslinger situation. If they don’t get the blind, it’s because they messed up the timing, not because of anything skillful you can do to avoid it. In my opinion, saying certain killers aren’t fun or boring is a negative mindset, as both sides have their equal share of bullshit that they can pull off, with no counterplay.

It seems like for a killer to at least be decent they need a way to either counter loops or apply extreme pressure

Love these discussion videos! You’ve always got great balanced opinions, and you respect both killer/survivor sides. I personally find killers like Clown and Deathslinger, with strong 1 v 1 and bad mobility/map pressure, the least fun to face. They’re the ones who tend to get genrushed and frustrated, and end up tunnelling hard or NOED camping just to secure a kill. They’re good 1 v 1 so tunnelling is easy if they choose to do it, but in red rank games the gens go ridiculously fast, and it’s all over by the time they’ve finished tunnelling that one person. It’s no fun being the one tunnelled, and it’s no fun having to just do nothing but gens because the killer ignores you to camp/tunnel your teammate. Or even going for a BT hook trade and then being left by your whole team. It’s also super frustrating playing Killer when you’re getting nice quick downs but you’ve got no map control so gens are popping right before you get there with PGTW. Killers with good mobility like Billy tend to get all over the map chasing and downing multiple people, which is much more fun to both play and face imo. The permanent ability to 1-shot makes tunnelling less tempting too, so a lot of the time you get nice balanced games where everyone gets to chase/do gens/get saves. Even if I end up dying in the end, those matches are usually much more satisfying to play.

i hate going against a spirit as much as the next guy, but i also hate going into the endgame lobby and always seeing one of 5 perks, usually multiple times

Indeed, running in circles while staring back very fun much skill. I play killers that break this dynamic of the game intentionally. Running in circles to get a pallet drop is the least engaging game play.

I've heard about you a lot, but honestly until recently, hadn't watched many videos. I've now seen a few of your videos examining different issues, and I love hearing your perspective on these things. Too many people I watch seem to have a perspective that favors one side. And I for sure can't give the best views on things, because I haven't played nearly as much killer as I have survivor. But what I generally find it, I'd say, what you said near the end here: I don't want games where I'm just going down in two seconds and it feels like nothing I did mattered. But I also don't want games where the killer clearly had no chance and everybody gets out with ease. And for sure, with both of these, the skill level of the killer and survivors have to be considered. I definitely feel I need to improve when I go down clearly because I'm playing poorly. But it sucks when it feels like you generally play well, and things go to shit because of a few random chance or luck-based things.

Really enjoying these talks.

You should really keep making discussion videos

This kinda makes me feel bad for maining deathslinger

Very well made video Scott!!! Being fun for both sides is what I think will help this grow and maybe even the community becoming a little less toxic if that’s possible. Trying your absolute hardest and knowing you can’t do shit is super unrewarding. Could make people possibly leave the game depending on how the feel and I’m sure some already have.

I know say the Event Firecrackers could be kept after the event ended, but does the Cake things stay after this Anniversary ends?

Love the commentary Scott but either I’m crazy or the background music was tad bit too loud

I'm not sure what's the state of DBD right now (haven't played since Legion release) so take what I am about to say with a grain of salt. You claim Deathslinger is a boring killer because basically you're dependant on the killer missing the shot and basically is a guess. But in your Hillbilly example you're claiming it's fun because you can actually play but on the killer side he guessed you were going to jump that window. So it's basically the same thing except this time the killer was the one who was dependant on the survivor messing it up, now the unfun gameplay is on the killer's side. Again, not sure what's the state of the game today. But this caught my attention because if the killer depends solely on the survivors fucking up then the killer gameplay will become stale and boring

I've just watched Artheda's bubba 5 video, your voice is so smooth now

The music does not work in volume or choice for this video

And I love watching this type of stuff

I think you're completely right with Deathslinger and Spirit, but I think Behaviour did a great job designing pyramid head. It's not too hard to dodge his ranged attacks and in order to always dodge it you have to do some guessing but it's a healthy amount

I became a killer main and took an entire year break after deathslinger came out because the only thing that would happen every game is the team would get shot and become downed cause they would run iron grasp, and only take survivors to hooks in the basement or on hills. On top of that cover would never work anyway cause the killer can move forward while realing in the harpoon. Either id get hooked or slugged for the entire game. I don't wanna go back to survivor now that the twins are out either.

music seemed find and you make a lot of fine points. though I am a spirit player and usually most of the matches I play people people enjoy my spirit so im not sure what you mean? I also dont use stridor though i sometimes think about it.

And I know spirit needs a small power rework but the perk dead hard and spine chill.. can be direct ways to counter spirit.. I've had soooo many survivors use dead hard while I'm in mid swing to hit them after a phase and I miss and they get out alive

I wish he had commented on Doctor. A lot of people complain about him now, but I think he's a well designed killer after his rework.

Keep up these sit down talking kind of videos! They're great!

That music is so relaxing, it’s making me sleepy 😴 ☁️

"Boring killer! You need to let us win so we can t bag you at the gate"

I hate spirit she's literally no fun to play against at all

For peeps looking for the music in the background, it's: Dark Souls 2 OST - Majula

What did you do to your poor guitar in the bg? FeelsBadMan

I just hope that one day, the devs actually listen to some of the community's complaints and... do something about them for once. Seems like they just do whatever the hell they want and just wing it. Also I'm a barber IRL, I could give you a haircut for free if you come to Brazil hahahaha

Although i agree with what scott says. I disagree with playing against deathslinger. For being 110% killer his power isn't even that great. Even if he lands his shot its not guaranteed the down.If the survivor just puts down the pallet the deathslinger has to destroy it and give up on chasing the survivor or he just ends up wasting time chasing, which aint great for a 110% kiler. I definitely agree with scotts other points tho.

Is that the DS2 Majula music in the background? You cheeky bastard

I was just playing DS2 this morning. So thanks a lot for the 5 minute hunt for the process not being properly closed in task manager before I realised the music was in the video.

Nobody: Emo Scott: "UHN"

I kinda disagree with Deathslinger. I personally find playing against him interesting. The shot is often not reactable, but that makes juking sucessfully all the more rewarding. And I disagree that no skill goes into it. While you don't get a visual indication, with experience you get a feeling for when a Deathslinger is going to shoot. If he misses, he either becomes a slower m1 killer with no ability, or has to spend some time rewinding which allows me to get some distance, so I feel like I'm rewarded for evading. Against a good Deathslinger, I find it to be an interesting contest to anticipate each others moves. Further, your choices matter in terms of routing. Going into areas with lots of cover opposed to making a mistake by running into the open field. This is second nature to good survivors from playing against Huntress, but still a choice based on experience that matters for your chances of escape. Another thing you can sometimes do is, when injuried, position yourself so that you have a shot at breaking the chain before he can hit you. Fun is always a subjective thing and I'm not saying anyone who dislikes playing against Deathslinger is wrong. But I find it fun and disagree that my choices as survivor don't matter. I also don't have as much of a problem with Spirit as many others, since not every Spirit is a god. Against a very good Spirit, you often get the my choices don't matter feeling. But I still find outplaying a less experienced Spirit rewarding from time to time.

dumb idea i just came up: when Deathslinger actually presses M1 to shoot while aiming, there's a small red shine on his eye before the harpoon is expelled. It gives some small time to actually react (instead of just guessing), looks cool, and a Deathslinger could mix baiting several times before actually shooting (and survivors juking before the shine comes up) and shooting quickly (catching by surprise survivors who weren't expecting to see the shine) I really don't know if it would work, but it increases reaction time a bit, requires survivors to be playing attention to the killer and would look nice

I love how his cat just looks like it died in the background

Can someone explain me, what the fun point when playing against a trapper is then? Is it that he‘s just ok, because he was the first killer, or what is it that nobody complains about him? Taking all the mentioned points in this video in consideration, he must be one of the worst killers to play against.

i think deathslinger could absolutely have his ADS time increased at least slightly so that survivors could react, however in return i'd absolutely love to have it that he could more reliably get hits when he does spear someone and they can't break the chain on the tiniest crate corner

Is there anything that you can do against the killers power? If not then its generally a question of when you get down rather than what can I do to not get downed.. Spirit with strider is literally a 50/50 coin toss that you can rig with strider to make it a 80/20 in your favor however her kit is generally too strong As for death slinger sure you can run him if he misses but the moment you get hit and realize theres nothing you can do once hit you realize theres no way you're breaking the chain and even if you do you'll still get injured, I broke the chain with a DROPPED pallet in front of me 3 seconds away however he was still able to recover and hit me quicker than I could vault the one thought that went through my mind was "awesome counter play man"

Digging the watch. What is it?

Agree 120% with Scott. His thoughts are almost the same as mine. I hope for a better more interactive "battle" between the killer and surv. Just like billy matches. Pretty much everything Scott said is dead-on when it comes to making great match experiences

I feel like the argument of "survivors don't like playing vs killers that don't have skillful outplay" becomes less valid when every survivor can just press e to outplay, or can take a bad unhook because bt covers your mistake, or can just jump in a locker and force you to eat ds, etc etc. While the killers outlined definitely have issues, the killer meta is always evolving and changing with nerfs, buffs, and reworks, but the survivor meta has been the same stale ten perks for the last two years and I wish something would be done about it.

I think the main issue with DBD, is that there is only one mode. Could you imagine other survival modes that focus on some different escape mechanism that isn't gens and pallet looping? Devs could look into other survival games that would benefit certain killers skills more than what the current mode is. Also, I think a practice area would be great too (especially with the bigger ones that take time to learn building areas). So much energy is put into killer and survivor nerfs/buffs, when I think the game play itself could use some new mode that would really refresh things to learn new skills and possibly test old ones.

Love the darksouls music! Also you brought up some interesting points, learned a lot this video.

I just disagree, there is skill to juke deathslinger, sure it comes with map awareness and looping knowledge but you can still mind game / juke a deathslinger

I see your points. But also at the same time, I heavy disagree, as a player that is still learning everyday how to play better. I like learning how to read better and take better steps to avoid the killers. With clown, i have never used a pallet to avoid him. I just learn new loops.

Thoughts on doing some videos on ways to play specific boring killers in a way that's fun for both sides? Because as a Nurse player, I don't _want_ my survivors to be bored. I play Nurse because, well, I find her really fun and satisfying to play (yes, I'm weird). Now this isn't really a problem for me yet because I suck, but it does make me wonder: is there some play style I could adopt that would always be fun for survivors, even if I eventually get really good?

The other thing I hate about Pyramid Head is that he can just put the torment trail in the center of a pallet and then the survivors is basically in a lose lose situation. They either use the pallet and get tormented, or don't use the pallet and get hit anyways. It's just boring because no matter what I do the killer wins in some way or another.