Scott the thing you aren't considering is how the flamethrower turrets go *boo-boo-beep* and then they go *fwoosh* and the alien goes *scrraawww* and it makes me giggle.

The funny thing is that going back into a tunnel immediately after getting flamethrowered is exactly the kind of behavior the xenomorph actually does

Xeno missing his tail is like spinning a good killer, it's cool that it happened but you can't rely on that as solid counterplay for his power.

I think what should be done is the secret 4th option: Make the turrets not as punishing to carry. They slow you a lot and because of that it feels tedious on the survivor side. It makes sense logically because you're carrying a heavy piece of machinery but they should change the hinder from like 15% (idk what it actually is) to like 5%. Make it less of a time investment to USE smart turret placement. I also think his add-ons for reducing turret effectiveness should just be outright removed or nerfed. Not even made partially basekit. Make it so the helmet reduces stagger by 35% still, but increases turret range by 1m. The range add-on makes it so turrets have 2m less range, but stagger you 20% quicker. That way the effect evens out and still gives you more time to react overall, but not nearly as much. This way they can also be stacked together in order to gain a bit of what we have rn but its not nearly as oppressive with a green & a yellow add-on. In terms of reacting to the tail, I'm all for saying the turrets are the counter-play. Good turret placement knocks you out of your power and as such I think it should take longer, even when going into a tunnel, to recharge your power. It just makes using the turrets more rewarding. Maybe if you lose crawler mode because of a turret it takes 25% longer overall. EDIT: Comments have told me the hinder is actually 35%, which is stupidly slow and should definitely be toned down to maybe 15%-10% instead. My point is still ultimately the same even if the numbers aren't quite accurate.

I felt like I was going INSANE reading reddit threads about this but your take is exactly what I was thinking about turrets. They take too long to setup for too little payoff. One of these things need to budge. Either his tail needs to not be as good as it is, turrets need to be quicker to place, they need to be better at taking xeno out of power, or they need to take him out of power for longer. Change any one of those things and I'd be totally fine with xeno. As it stands I don't even think they're OP, but it just feels like there's not much of a point in bothering with turrets.

Just grab the tail and snap it in half

This is like old death slinger where you couldn't tell if he was going to shoot you because you couldn't react but at least he had reload which was good Xeno cooldown is just quick

I think it’s weird how getting shot at by a turret is worse if you actually have your power compared to if it’s at 99%. If it’s 99% the turret will just make your power take a couple of seconds to activate rather than the risk of being kicked out if you were already in crawler mode.

They really need to add an animation before the tail attack and also punish people more from missing. Dodged 5 attacks yesterday at a pallet but it didn't matter because i couldn't make it anywhere else

I personally just dont want another singularity scenario, where having ur power is basically a luxury due to survs getting rid of it its super easy, but i would be fine if they change the turret addons

this is quite reassuring bc ive been feeling really stupid on the survivor side not finding a way to counter xeno

It’s weird how we have killers like singularity where it’s so easy to deny power and then we have xeno who is in their power 90-95% of the game

personally I think one thing that's super strong that not a lot of people are talking about is how insanely fast you can go across the map and start your first chase, usually with multiple survivors. Every other killer is locked out of using their mobility power for the first few seconds of a match; sadako, dredge, freddy. Or they need to set up like hag or demo. I think xeno would be a lot less oppressive if it was the same for them, to give survivors at least a little head start on placing turrets. And it wouldn't feel too rough for the xeno player either.

im glad someone made the no downside huntress comparison, ive had people super salty when i mention it

Another horrible thing about the turrets is that you get them from the same place the Xeno pops out of. And unlike grabbing a Sadako tape, it doesn't shut down the vents. So you're now holding something that slows you down and are in constant danger that the Xeno could come out at any time. Also unlike Sadako, the Xeno gets an immediate killer instinct when it comes out of the vent so it knows you're around. And you can't put the turret right near the vent, because the alien shuts down the turrets magically near any vent it comes out of, so you're encouraged to go haul the thing over to some nearby loop, which wastes more time that could be spent on a gen. Yeah, they're trying not to repeat the situation with Singularity EMPs, but they went way too far in the killer's favor. Singularity EMPs are in safe parts of the map, something you can easily carry around at no penalty, fast and easy to use and shutdown the killer's only power. Turrets are dangerous to pick up and hold, are time consuming to use, only shut down part of the Xeno's kit and aren't even reliable at doing that. For the kind of risk/time investment of using the turrets, they need to be a lot better.

I agree with this video (it hasn’t even been 2 mins it’s out)

I think the biggest issue is relegating the counter to a direct power (the tail) with an indirect method (an item). It just doesn't work well. With the exception of Singularity, every power with an item component counteracts a passive effect, not a direct effect (Nemesis and Wesker's vaccines/sprays vs. infection, Pinhead's box vs. chain hunt) which is a much better balance since it falls entirely on the survivor to make good use of their time and anything that happens as a result is moreso their fault than it does some unfair balance of the power. Additionally, having item interactions with powers runs the risk of being too strong or too weak, and one side feeling like it's not a fair balance. We saw how EMPs were handled with Singularity, and they do not feel good. They started off too strong, so were nerfed repeatedly, and they feel bad to use. Sure, disabling the biopods are fine, but Singularity can still use them to track survivors so unless you're very far away, he can still walk to disrupt the generator and generally aren't disabled long enough that it provides you much protection (because, ultimately, making him power walk towards you instead of teleporting, that alone is not going to win you the game). Moreover, Singularity can just remove and replace disabled biopods, rendering the EMP useless during chase unless you're W-keying across the map. But if you buff them again, then you're back to square one with them being too strong and Singularity having like, no power. I think it's definitely an issue of the tail just being too strong. There needs to be greater drawback to using the tail because missing a tail whip is tantamount to missing a lunge, except the tail is obviously much stronger. I did the math, and the survivor gains ~2m of distance more when Xeno misses a tail whip (which in DBD terms is half a second of running) compared to a missed lunge attack. In contrast, the PTB when the cooldown movement speed of a missed tail whip was 1.2m/s, the survivor gains like ~5m, which is a little more than a second of running, which I think is more fair considering how strong the tail is. You need to make the tail more punishing to miss to encourage skillful use, because as it stands, there's little drawback to spamming the tail, as opposed to other killers who suffer more if they try to force a special attack, because, ultimately, direct powers should have direct counterplay.

I think the main reason that the turrets should be buffed in some way is that it's the most unique aspect of this killer. Xenomorph is fun to go against because you get to play with the turrets and burn the killer. They really need to hang on to that aspect.

The turrets also act as proximity alarms too if you didnt notice. It beeps faster the closer the Xenomorph gets, even if he's underground. So i guess you could consider the advanced warning a part of the counterplay, letting you get to a loop or hide before it gets to you.

my problem is that he can so freely m1 you even if he is in crawler mode and you cant tell whether he is gonna use m1 or m2. Its literally like 4.6 huntress with your hatchet ready and you can also m1 wiithout having to bring down your hatchet

Maybe reducing the survivor slow% when carrying a turret can make using turrets more worth

Finally someone addresses how stupid the "just use turrets" counterplay is. Any time I get knocked out of power, just go into a tunnel for less than 5 seconds and all of that turret placing was useless. And that's IF it even knocks me out of power.

i find placing turrets in tactical locations to be really fun, maybe thatll wear off over time but right now i think its quite cool and unique

I wouldn't mind buffing turrets... if turrets weren't invulnerble when stunned. It frustrates me to no end when I leave a tunnel, there's a turret that is invulnerable, and there's no downside to placing it there. And the turrets reactivate, and I hit it and it doesn't register (even with an M1)... It would make them less optimal to be near tunnel entrances, but make them stronger away from them, if that makes sense.

i genuinely only run cereal rations (the brown add on that reveals all turrets while in the tunnels) and then some other non turret related add on and even that has been making turrets redundant

Great video, I agree with all the points and hopefully he can be balanced without getting nerfed to the point where he is unplayable

With nemesis tentacle, the closest comparison to xeno's tail. you have to build up two tiers to have it be useful, and even then it doesn't injure first hit. with xeno, you get it immediately and repeatedly and it injured immediately, and don't even get a warning like you do with nemesis that hes going to strike

I dont think xeno should be able to m1 when the tail is out. Huntress and nemi have to be put their special away breifly before they can m1 again

I think Xeno could enter crawler but her tail would be down (like the post-game screen) and they would have to wind up and activate it to attack like Nemesis - where they bring the tail up and hiss [or something like that] it would give audio and visual cues to survivors whether or not the were looking at the killer in chase. I also very much agree with trying to balance out turrets and adding accordingly

I don't think he really needs any nerfs so long as blight and nurse still haven't been brought to justice, nerfing alien would be like jailing a drug dealer while letting a serial killer walk free

Me doing my victory dance as I’ve been saying EXACTLY all of this since their release. Especially about those 2 addons removing their only weakness and them being potentially top 5 due to little or no counterplay. Like this entire video is the essays I wrote my friends and on Twitter ❤❤❤

I would like for them to just rework the turret related add-ons and see how it goes, because i like the idea of being able to "counter the counter" as killer if you have a good reaction time, the problem is that it's just too easy if you have any turret add-on. In fact, I think even the add-on that lets you see the turrets when you are in a tunnel is a bit too much, since if you know where a turret is beforehand there's no way you're getting burned out of your power by that turret.

Very fair take. As much as I love to always be in tail mode, survivors should be rewarded for setting up the turrets in good spots. There's alot of options for this to go so we should be open to ideas on how to balance the oppression of the tail attack and the relief turrets bring.

I'd love an option to dismantle a turret as survivor because ATM it's very possible to make it so a certain turret is in a corner and it was once useful but now it's a dead zone away from anything. Tail is all sorts of bugged and needs hitbox fixing. Missing an M2 attack should be punishing. At the moment It feels like being followed by a pyramid head or an artist that has their M2 perpetually primed

As you said, without add-ons you have to react immediately or get taken out your power and it'll get you to like, 90% out. Any buff to turrets will make them guaranteed power off stations and require the killer to run the add-ons similar to the PTB. Add-ons might need to be reworked, but basekit would need a smidge more time for casual/average level play.

I feel like the buffs he got on release were a little too much. He wasnt feeling that bad on PTB personally, so i think that taking away a little of what they gave on release (not everything probably) would make it feel better for survivor

Do you think the new chase music is better Scott jimmy? I personally think the last one has more personality to it and fit the character more. The one now sounds like a basic horror theme you could slap on over half the killers.

Current Xeno is pretty much if Pyramid Head had constantly his M2 without a cooldown after an attack

Expecting solo que survivors to set up the perfect coordinated turrets is ridiculous. Also since turrets don’t stack anymore it’s even worse. I really don’t understand why they buffed him he was absolutely fun and fine for both sides in the ptb

People who dont think xeno needs a rework/ nerf are just killer players who are not good at the game or they have nostalgia goggles on for Alien chapter. There is obvious flaws with this killer. This video states them pretty good. I would rather verse a twins then xeno because at least victor has counterplay.

It feels like singularity was the precursor for alien here. The counterplay for nemesis, a prolonged wesker, singularity, and now alien is setup with the special item. Personally, I wouldn’t mind a longer turret print in exchange for 1-2 more turrets, and a base kit of the brown turret aura addons in exchange for more hinder from flames.

I think a pretty good counter option could be to make the torrent have a tiny bit more range so approaching it means you'll probably lose your power. You are also slowed while on fire as well but only after being hit by it for about half a second Then after being burned by the turrets your power burns out like wraith or nurse and doesn't come back for about 10 seconds or so.

I think he's fine, people need to learn how to use the turrets properly. If you drop the turrets just by the gens and dont drag them to where you will run, you are throwing.

I think a better option possibly would be to make it so the turrets require a short animation to destroy rather than an attack, make the stagger base kit, change the add ons to reduce breaking time on turrets and make it so the turrets don't take away your ability any more while in animation. This makes it so Xenomorph has to choose to either destroy the turret, walkthrough and lose the power or go around it. There's more counterplay but it's not too big of a change to the overall kit. The animation could literally be as short as snuffing a totem or something like that

The math for the add-on less M2 is an average (worst case scenario) 1.38s, when it takes 1.5s to be burnt out of power. The worst case being if you are running parallel to the turret, and you didn't know where it first started blasting you with the average .25s human visual reaction time (instead of the faster audio reaction time). You essentially have to be 50% slower than the average human to fail at reaction M2'ing in the worst case scenario. Latency doesn't appear to factor in because the burn bar doesn't fill after the Xeno breaks the turrets, so it doesn't appear to double check with the server. Also the funny thing is the yellow shorter turret add-on is more effective than the green flame resistant add-on (by a tiny bit).

You can place turrets behind dropped pallets, the flamethrower shoots through the dropped pallets or even windows

I’d honestly be down for them to experiment a little bit, making runner mode a lot more earned through stealthy plays after emerging from tunnels, basic attacking, or breaking pallets. He wouldn’t get any progress through tunnels anymore tho, and while in his M1 stance he is actually slowed to Nurse movement speed when out of chase. There needs to be some sort of shift with runner mode to feel more powerful and less frequent, and his M1 mode needs to feel a little more relevant but also weaker

You could make it so instead of hitting you go up to and you have a prompt similar to snuffing a boon that way your forced out of your power

I think making the runner mode harder to get would be a bad idea. The whole experience feels like Alien Isolation with the dynamic of going back to the tunnel when burnt but it happens rarely. I think the turrents should have more power or at least be faster to deploy.

i agree with the add ons part they should def do something about the turret add ons a little bit but other than that i really don’t have a problem with xeno. would rather go against him than a knight and sm

Counterpoint - encouraging survivors to set up turrets more often turns everyone into Skull Merchant. 😂

Yeah more turrets more stagger would be good, but I also think quicker turret placement would be good or at least being able to run at full speed when not in a chase or maybe in 16 or 10 meters of him so people can't do it mid chase or support a teammate actively

I think the idea of "earning the power" was completely overlooked. Like you said xenomorph does NOTHING to earn their power. If you run the brown egg addon its just an easy 25ish second recharge which is nothing since you only have to wait that out every now and again. I think the counterplay is fine but if it took maybe 10 seconds of tunnel traversal and 1 minute outside of tunnels it would probably be fine. You spend a good amount of time in tunnels anyway, its just weird how you can get knocked out of your power, destroy the turret, and then get back into your power mid chase because of how short the cooldown can be.

I haven't been playing enough of both sides to have a solid opinion on the actual balance of turrets, but I love the very strong powers that can be hard countered by specific items that Singularity and Xeno have had. It adds so much depth to playing as and against the killer and I'd hate for it to become like Dredge where the items are more overkill than anything

I have no clue if this would be good but maybe slow the turret stun but make it drain the power rather than build up a stagger. If the power fills up with the red bar from a turret the xenomorph gets stunned like a pallet stun but if the bar fills half way when it wears off you will exit crawler mode with half charge. I think this would make turrets more impactful while still being a threat your reaction to the turret decides how long until your power comes back while also threatening a stun if you are greedy and don't manage to get your hit in time.

The tail is like Nemmys tentacle. It can be dodged in the open but narrow corridors, its very hard. Ive seen people still do the spin dodge if the killer insists on the tail whip instead of M1.

I'm going to be real, it would be more interesting to make the tail whip a more avoidable attack (and more punishable on miss) than to look at turrets themselves. If I'm playing survivor against a xenomorph, I'd rather there be counterplay mid chase than in the boring macro game.

this whole thing just feels like the singularity’s emp but in reverse

The only counterplay that seems effective is playing TCM. I've had no complaints since. Hope this helps!

Honestly, my biggest complaint about Xeno is that him going from no power to crawler mode during chase has no sound queue or anything. So I say I want to go vault a window against a Xeno with no power, then right as I go to vault, he gets his power back and instantly tail attacks and there was nothing I could've done to know that was going to happen. Pretty lame. Though most Xeno's won't get kicked out of power anyway.

ive found that if you have a team that sets up turrets consistently and you are able to loop around the turrets it makes xeno more sufferable, but as the players get better the turret becomes a non-factor, like Scott said. Crawler mode lets Xeno zone survivors out of a loop just by existing. They've made yet another killer where the only effective thing to do is predrop and hold w. if I had to pick a solution to the oppressiveness of crawler mode off the top of my head I would make crawler mode a timed power, and to take away the m1's while in that state. If I'm running to a window and my only option is take the window and get hit, or dodge to the side and maybe the killer misses, then every time the xeno can just continue moving at me and m1 me instead which makes it feel like a lose-lose scenario. we already know that a killer that leaves no room for interactivity from the survivors leads to boring gameplay. for a power so oppressive and so good in chase, its not something xeno should have access to for 90% of the match.

One thing that could be done to address how weak turrets are compares to how readily available runner mode is would be to add a cooldown period after getting burned where you can't get into runner mode or use tunnels, something like that.

I realize if they give his tail a windup, he becomes too similar to huntress, slinger, demo, etc. But at the same time, I hate that it's just a guessing game of if he'll use the tail or not

Why don’t we have the tunnels slowly strip away the power? That way people don’t just sit underground all game, camp hooks, or go back down for two seconds to get power back

I don't use Torret add-ons and I swear those sneaky little fuckers caught me off guard more than times than not. and making reaction adjustments with a Joystick is rough

I feel like the biggest issue is that turrets need to be more consistent. Currently the turrets feel like if Dredge could choose the individual locker he teleports to instead of having a criteria for grouped lockers. As of right now, it can feel a bit clunky as the killer but at least it's balanced. Flame turrets currently feel really chunky with hardly any reward. I think the turrets should be the focus of any change. One thing I'm baffled by is the fact that your crawler mode still charges when you're being burned by a turret. I've had plenty of times where I carry someone to a hook, get burned after hooking them, and then a second or two after I'm in crawler mode. The flame turrets really should revert crawler mode progress if you aren't actively in crawler mode to force more tunnel usage. I also think that flame turrets should be breakable while stunned. That would at least create more scenarios of creative turret placements rather than always setting them up right outside a tunnel.

I like the lore-accurate idea that the Xeno retreats to the tunnels after being hit by the flames, but I think it would be better if they made it so that it needs to spend more time in the tunnels in order to get the power. Then, the Xeno player might actually decide to traverse the map and look for a victim elsewhere instead of just waiting or moving back and forth.

The problem I have with his counterplay isn't how strong the turrets are necessarily but more of a Pinhead issue with random teammates. It can feel super punishing to fight a killer where your teammates need to use an item to help you in chase. With Nemesis and Singularity I can at least syringe or EMP for myself in chase to cut off their power, but I can't do the turrets all myself, the time efficiency just isn't there. Even if they make double turrets stronger like you suggested it would still lead to randoms needing to coordinate the turrets which can suck. I wish that they had a bit less punishment for a single survivor doing turrets, like making you able to take multiple turrets quicker out of one box or not slowing you down as much. I don't want them to be midchase items or anything, just not as time consuming for one survivor to dedicate themselves to, because as it stands a lot of my solo queue teammates seem to ignore turrets or just place them blindly on generators that are in the open without any thought.

imo thebiggest part of theturret is it tells you xeno is underneath it, letting you hide or dip

I think the flamethrower should take longer to pull xeno from their power, but it should slow them down more and possibly prevent the tail attack that way turret placement is a lot more impactful without feeling too detrimental on the killer side

I think a good fix is A. revert the punishment for missing a tail attack, and B. youre only able to destroy turrets with m1's. makes turrets more of a threat when survs place them right, or mean nothing when they dont. it isnt a get out of jail free card but there is counterplay to both sides

my counterplay is that most xenos dont actually use their m1 so i sort of stand right next to them and make then whiff their tail, unfortunately their recovery is like the same as basic m1 when imo it should be longer, closer to a bit over a lunge or sum

I think flamethrower should just be a handheld item it forces survivors to choose between power counter play or items which help with pressure it would also slow a survivor like a flash light beam For xeno power I think the red bar stays and doesn’t go down or it goes down very slowly and make it slower to get the power

I think BHVR should make minor tweaks. One of which being to increase the time you need to be in the tunnel to acquire crawler mode. I don’t know the actual time it takes, but I think something like 1.5 or 2.5 extra seconds. Possibly revert the movement speed in tunnels? Idk, there’s a lot of things they could do, but I don’t want to see them go over kill.

They need to reduce the turret spawn cool down and make it to where you can return to the same control tower to set up a safe zone with 2 turrets

while it's incredibly easy to obtain your power, i feel like turrets should do more to the xenomorph when *not* in crawler mode. i don't know the lore or the movies, but even when the turrets are blasting flames at the xenomorph they do absolutely nothing to it. your power meter decreases ever so slightly, but it's barely noticeable. honestly why do they shoot at all if they don't do any damage

The tail strike should function more like a nem whip, hold m2 to coil the tail up and then m1 to launch it out. It would better telegraph when a tail strike is about to happen. From the survivors POV the tail is dragging behind the xenomorph until it starts to coil it, then it would look like how it always does in runner mode.

Xeno should get his M2 and tunnels removed, M1 killer is the strongest killer, we have to balance 1vs1 in an asymmetrical game, since that makes the most sense. We also should give some buffs to MFT, make it like 100% haste. I think that would do it and then everyone is going to hug and world hunger and wars will stop.

Hey Scott, IDK if you'll reply or see this, but I love playing like you do. I try to make sure I hook everyone at least once. I got a question, though, I'm trying to play generous, but at times, you know, you can only find the guy who is on death hook at 3+ gens, you find someone clearly struggling..... Is slugging the best choice for them? You know, at least apply pressure, but not outright ruining their time, or is just hooking and killing them the more merciful way to you? I'm curious on what you do in such situations, I try to give people chances, but at times, when I can only find one person, or just the same two.... I feel bad just killing them, but I feel like slugging may be just rude seeming, when it's me just trying to give death hook person a chance.... I'm unsure, I'd love to hear what you do in such situations!!! I'm a new person to DBD, and loved your vids for years!!! Ifeel I'm skilled enough at it from a standpoint of knowledge, but I'd love to know how you make sure it's fair for everyone. I took your attitude, I don't give a single fuck on wins or losses LMAO, I just want us all to have fun while trying!!!! Thanks in the end for such amazing videos, you've made playing Wesker a blast from just memeing with people. They don't meme back or anything, but it's been so much fun actually playing, and let alone, playing like you!!! Thanks for the videos, I hope you keep it up, and I hope just knowing some random baby killer is just trying to make it fair like you play, because fuck, like how you play, is so fun!!!!!!!!!!

Another factor though us the slight delay between pressing the attack and the attack happening wjere the killee needs to predict the survivor especially at pallets

Ive had survivors block me so i cant hit another survivor, this killer has some serious play and counter play, ppl just dont want to learn the killer and how to counter it

They need to nerf the shit out of that power recovery inside the tunnels. I feel like I'm playing with an iri addon every time I do that

In my opinion, I just don't want xeno to get his power so fast when entering tunnels maybe some sound to tell you when he's going to use his power or a bigger penalty for failed tail attacks many xenos I played against yesterday lost their powers because of the turrets and it only took them half the time to recover their powers compared to what it took to place the turrets.

I don’t think that the turrets were intended to be the counter play in the way that they are used. If you run sprint burst, place a turret down near a generator. I treat it more as an informational item/deterrent. it beeps and tells you right before the killer gets there. You can run away with sprint burst before the killer can do anything if the killer chooses to chase you then the turret knocks it out of its power if the killer decides to hit the turret, you gain size able distance.

I feel like if turrets didn’t slow you down and if you can run with them would be more fair cuz if you pick up a turret as the killer comes out of a tunnel then you don’t have enough time to get to a space to deploy the turret and you’re out of position and can’t make any loops. There’s also no notification on survivor end (aside from turret) for the tunnels but the killer can see your footsteps so they can intercept you going to a turret and get an easy down.

Having played a lot of Xeno, the counter is flame turrets. If the turret burns out Xeno, the killer now has a difficult choice: Chase the survivor as a basic M1 killer or go into the tunnels to get power back. 35 seconds is a long time to chase without a power. It takes about 4 seconds in tunnel, which is plenty of time for the survivor to get away. The problem is if killers are able to break the turret without losing power or much distance. If anything, that is a balance issue with turrets rather than the rest of Xeno's power. The other counter is sharp corners. Pretty much anything that makes Nemesis tentacle hard to hit will make the tail attack hard to hit. The two powers are remarkably similar but with some very important differences. Xeno's tail feels faster because it is always ready and has an invisible wind up. It also doesn't lock out M1, which negates some usual Nemesis counterplay. Overall, buff turrets and/or nerf the power charge rate out of tunnels. Survivors should be rewarded by using the killer's built in counter rather than simple jukes.

Totaly agree with you, they need to add a slowdown when deactivating or destroying turrets, or a slowdown when using the tunel

burn time def needs to be reduced. not saying for sure that they should go this far but imagine they could make it to where the second any flame at all touched him it took him out of his power and he would still be really strong especially considering turrents are disabled when he comes out of a tunnel.

If you don't do tapes against Sadako or box against Pinhead etc, you'd think they were broken. As long as the team keeps up with turret pressure the Xeno has no power. You said you haven't played against them much. I suggest you do. It's important to play as and against a good amount of time before forming opinions. The other thing is that you forget the game is asymmetrical. The time investment of setting a turret shouldn't be equal to the killer countering it. There's 4 Survivors so the killer time is far more precious. Survivors actually doing the turrets helps slow down, and if they don't, well that's why Xeno feels oppressive.

While I understand wanting to be able to counter a power in chase I think nerfing the tail itself would lead to Pyramid Head type play where the power is only used when animation locked which is boring. Slowing down Xeno a bit (maybe 1.5 instead of 2) would help, but I lean more towards making turrets more punishing. Maybe make power loss cumulative over time (no regression), a mandatory amount of time out of power after getting burned (20 seconds?), or a severe debuff/stun after getting fully burned? Not all of the above, maybe one or two. Also, make it impossible to enter and exit from the same tunnel possibly.

Agreeing with people saying the tail needs a delay and animation before it actually stabs, along with a sound a noticeable sound queue like huntress. Maybe they twirl the tail for a split second with a whoosh sound and then stab, giving survivors a very noticeable queue that they need to try and dodge. Maybe also slightly slow just a bit more on how much you can turn with the tail. Frankly I don't see the turrets as much of a problem, however perhaps giving the xeno like a delay on their charge once knocked out of their power. Like five or so seconds where their power can't recharge.

If turrets are meant to be the counter play they need a massive massive buff. I've ran xeno through 3 on all fours and he STILL had his power. That is not fair at all. Out of the two I want a tail whip change so there is a CLEAR TELL if he is going to m1 vs tail whip. Like nemi putting his whip up, pyramid head slaming knife in ground, huntress putting get hatchet up, wesker putting his arm up, demo opening his mouth. The PTB Xeno was way more enjoyable then release xeno.

The ability itself is not op, it’s the lack of tell that comes with the attack that makes it nutty. Its basically silent, which is actually very significant when chasing. As with any ranged killer, there’s a slight audio que that allows you to react, think huntress audio wind up or even seeing death slinger scoping as a tell. That is integral to the “balance” and interaction between players. I say that as a 50/50 player who considers balance for both sides. If we look at the history of other killer powers with range, we see a slight trend of adjustments. Examples would be Bhvr taking away death slinger quickscope bc it was almost impossible to react to it. Same with pyramid heads m2 to m1. I’m not saying anything about xeno needing nerfing, she is great. but she does need a better indication for players of when she’s going to m2. Giving that to her would not bring her down at all. Imagine if huntress made no noise when chucking a hatchet. Ranged powers are significantly stronger without any que before the attack, which is what we have in Xenos case. All those killers I listed are still amongst the best killers despite those pushbacks to their powers. A part of what makes up my conclusion is bc Ive been crushing survivors with xeno while simultaneously struggling to escape against xeno. Its not because I’m clueless of what to do against her but like I said, you almost can’t react to her tail in majority of interactions.

IMO There's a few things that can make xeno better 1) Just slow the xeno down more during their tail attack CD, this serves 2 purposes. It gives survivors more distance after using the tail attack and it also makes a survivor running you through a turret more punishing.. 2) Remove the ability to place 2 turrets within firing range of each other. Right now one of the most effective things you can do to a xeno is place 2 turrets next to each other because no matter what the xeno will get burned out when dealing with them, even if they combine the addons that increase fire resist and reduce turret attack range. 3) The cooldown after destroying a turret (with m1 OR tail attack) should be longer 4) MAYBE add another .10 seconds to the windup of the tail attack but adjust the speed curve so for that first .10 seconds they're still moving full speed just so the survivor get's a small window to react to the incoming attack. The idea is that single turrets are more than a minor nuisance if the xeno knows what they're doing, but also removes the 0 counterplay move and having 2 turrets right next to each other. This is a better overall state for xeno because it leaves them feeling like less of a solo stomper (don't need to coordinate stacking turrets) and also makes it so the survivor can actually get some distance when they use their attack.

I think a fair nerf could be you gain more power over time and distance in the tunnels rather than a set rate. Making going back and fourth take longer and having no real effect on going to other tunnels even if still close since unless you predict the survivor or they mess up they now get distance for power

How about if the flame turrets got a bit of a buff, and Alien could only regen his power while in tunnels (needing more than 3 seconds ofc.). then they could make the crawler mode a threatening ability in chase, without feeling like he's always in it

Well I’m honestly glad that he gets his power too easily, rather than him struggling to use his power. It’s typically easier to make something weaker than it is to make something stronger. At least Xeno doesn’t have the problem Singularity has, where he basically can’t use his power against good survivors.

BHVR: alright guys it seems our killers are too unfair to play against, so we are gonna add some couterplayer to Alien *meanwhile*: Nurse, Blight, and huntress players.

Honestly my ideal would be weaking the tail, bc at current if you are at a loop with the Xenomorph, you are stuck not able to do anything. You have to just keep on winning alleged 50/50s, whilst not being able to make it anywhere bc Xeno recovers too quickly, and has no wind up on the tail attack. You just end up with old Pyramid Head, where he can just use his power or basic attack with no issue or shifting between the two.

At least let survivors move faster when they carry turrets. I hope they don’t change Xeno much, they’re very fun to play and not as strong as Blight, Nurse, or Wesker.