I loved CJs take on individual matchups each week where teams can game plan for each other and media can hype up the match. I would love to see this dimension brought to Rocket League. I think the intelligent players who can dissect their opponents should be rewarded.

As far as league play not being interesting in the beginning of the season, you have to take into account that we would see new rosters and then their second match would have storylines like "was their first win a fluke or are they the real deal?". Those early storylines make it interesting into the middle / late season when results and playoff conversations make it interesting.

You can always expect chaos with Johnny and Bates in the same call

Honestly drawing out the rlcs to 8 games over a weekend could allow for more content in between, hype, orgs promoting, advertisements and therefore more sponsorship potential and revenue in theory while also allowing pros to create a good fan base with opportunities such as longer post match interviews and maybe even online press conferences which would be cool as well. It could also be a shorter season then what we have had which can allow for more hype but also time out of season to incorporate lans and other tournaments with open formats which could be sponsored by rocket league and maybe streamed with their platform as well. But I do enjoy the current open tournament format it probably just needs more tweaking, I definitely have heaps of thoughts on this debate for both sides but damn this be too juicy of a paragraph

I much prefer a league, but it really did need to change from the old system. I'd love something like A league - 16 teams, top 8 finals, bottom 4 auto relegated. Top 4 after the finals get auto quals for world championship. 5th - 8th get wild card. B league 16 teams, top 4 from finals get promoted. Bring back the field as a team ranked mode in game and the top 16 teams from the field get closed quals spots vs the 16 teams in B league for the next season. You have a clear pathway as a team from ranked mode into league play if you're good enough.

The idea from Bates and CJ about wanting to go back to the good ole days where you plan your weekends in advance bc you know when the team(s) you are interested in will be playing. It sounds so much better than having to dedicate a whole fri/sat/sun to watching a full tournament to catch the games that you want to see. I have loved the regional tourneys, but I can't lie, as someone with more responsibilities than ever, I would love to be able to plan on watching my teams on specific days and times.

Love how Tbates throws in Rizzo, squishy, garretg, and jstn in the same sentence, at the same level. Back in the day, Rizzo was THE goat. Man was more than a caster lmao

I look at real football leagues in Europe and the “league play system” I feel has very little downfall, johny was trying to make the point that the bottom teams have no reason to play but when you look at real life the bottom teams of the prem, liga etc for them those games are life’s between staying in league and demotion. Or for example when the point was made of what’s the point of trying if they are already last, pride. Pride is what they show when they go all out and try to beat the city’s, barcelonas, Madrid’s etc. it is rare to see those bottom teams completely give up

Why is the stream with Tbates the most eloquently spoken cast there's been 💀

When you know what match-ups are coming up, it isn’t just easy for the fans to plan, it gives an opportunity for psyonix to sell advertising slots. Pro sports leagues charge more or less for advertising during matches depending on expected viewership. Psyonix could easily look at average viewership during different matchups and sell advertising slots during them based on that.

On the topic of “keeping the viewer informed during a long broadcast” about 1.00 in: I’ve felt this plenty of times if I start watching the broadcast midway, and “oh” these teams are playing. And what you need at that point, is in the no-man’s -time before kickoff is show the bracket traversal for that team. Highlight some players and their goals that led them to this particular game. Because the standard “showing the bracket in its entirety says nothing to the viewer who tunes in to and want to watch a e.g. underdog story, or your favorite teams adventure this weekend. Thoughts?

Honestly this offseason has felt so long it's almost ridiculous.

I'm a European football fan and maybe it's controversial but i think that the splits should have a league format (round robin) and the best 5 teams with the best record just go to the major (with tie breakers if needed). No playoffs. This makes consistency much more important and every game actually matters.

League play in a split is best option but not as a tryout just a constant thing. You could do spring split top 10 or more depending on amount teams you want league play with then the rest of the spots are open qualifiers. This way the middle split is more fun and you can have all the positives from both styles

Come back boys! RLCS starts in about two weeks!!

i suscribed. thanks for the cool RL content.

TBATES FINALLY BACK LETS GOOOOOO

Would love to see open split for qualification for league then worlds

Just imagine a shorter season of league play with each team playing 2-3 matchups every weekend. This would also add the element of momentum or a win streak that we get in a tournament format.

I know Im responding late jajajaja, but Im a hardcore fan since 2021 so I wasn't into league play (although I know the format) but I want to give my point: I see some problems you talked about: - Viewer ship - Game's importancy - Broadcasts too long ... I love this whole system but for solving some of this issues maybe the solution could be reducing the amount of regionals from 3 to 2 per split. This would mean that now games matter A LOT more and also we would have an extra week for doing analysis content or something similar. Honestly this content is something that Im missing (I remember back in BDS vs NRG Fall Major all the previous analysis... it was too good and I personally loved it). And also for doing the broadcasts shorter I would still have 3 days but the first round offstream/in the official team channels and then you can split the rest of the tournament in those 3 days

The way this would function well in my mind would be league play with 16 teams per region. Each region has 20 league games and after every 5th game is an international LAN major, after week 20 they have worlds. For the bad teams it would be cool to have a system where if you are out of contention for worlds early on you can get rewarded for winning series against teams that still are in contention. Small amounts like $500-$1000

I personally think with all the new rosters, talent, and an all time high skill ceiling, next season will be the best of all time no matter the format. I think it will truly be one of the most competitive and definetly the most stacked season ever.

League play is also just an objectively fairer deciding who is the best team in certain period. Everyone plays everyone. No more mickey runs. Furthermore league play would be more streamlined. Having a tourney every weekend can get a bit taxing. There are so many matches; it makes thing feel more rushed. Also rivalries would blossom in league play, top teams would be playing eachother less and so they'd become more speical, during last season it felt like we were getting top matchups like G2 vs Faze all the time to the point where it became boring. last of all, its way easier to explain.

League play would open up a possible fantasy rocket league that would pull more fans into watching lower interest games each week?

I think it should go like this; Fall league - top 16 teams from open qualifiers are put into this league. They play each other once, 3 best of 5 series a week for 5 weeks. You get points based on your win/loss ratio, so if you 3-0 a team, you get 3 points, if you win 3-2 you only get 1 point. Top 8 team at the end, are guaranteed league spots in the Winter league, bottom 8 at invited to closed qualifiers. Their league position, is also there seeding for the regional at the end of the league, this regional is a double elim and determines if you make it to the Major or not. So there is a need to do well in the league AND the regional. This also still gives opportunity to those who didn’t have a great league to still play well in the regional and make the major. I would probably prefer to have too 8 teams get double elim, bottom 8 teams only get single elim. Rinse and repeat for 2/3 splits depends on what you’d prefer. Worlds spots, should be determined by regional and major finishes. League play should only be used for regional seeding and guaranteed next league There will always be teams and player who complain but I really hope there isn’t a franchise system put in place, that would truely kill the competition

Something I wish was touched on is the importance of casual players having an entry to RLCS. This isn't just to get new players onboard (which is important). It doesn't matter as a spectacle either but what it does is get people involved to watch and keep track of the RLCS. When my friends make closed quals or try for opens that's interesting. They're talking about it more and that gets us talking about it more and overall means our entire group become hyped on the RLCS. We end up tracking the top level far more because it has relevance in our universe

Giant open qualifying tournaments in each region top 32 teams form two divisions within, each team in each division plays each other 2-3 times, and the other teams in the other division in the region 1-2 times, teams with best records make playoffs. Would work amazingly

1:13:35 i still dont know what or how the grid worked

i think that a league that played a cpl matches on weeknights and smaller regional tourneys on the weekends would be ideal, kinda like the grid except not as many matches

OH!! Also CJ your kinda wrong about the AFL fixtures. They allocate the extra rounds to rivalry match ups because that brings in big numbers and also usually good matchups anyway. E.g. Every state but Victoria has two AFL teams so those teams in each state will play each other twice every season.

I think the ideal format would be a 20-team double round robin league play that spans the entire season. At the halfway point, have a transfer window with the standard 2/3rds roster rule. Top 6 from league play go to a playoff to finalize who is going to Worlds. Teams that are 7th-14th remain in the league for the next season. Bottom 6 are instantly relegated out of the league. Instead of running RLRS as a secondary league play of its own, have RLRS be a series of tournaments similar to what is the current open format is where points are gained through placement. Consistent top placements in these tournaments will secure points to promote into the RLCS League Play next season. The same transfer window as mentioned before will occur for the teams that have acquired points in these tournaments. Teams could still forfeit points if they would rather break the 2/3rds rule or disband. Psyonix should really only focus broadcast efforts on RLCS League Play Matches because there will be a ton of them. Dependent on how the RLRS circuit works, maybe just the final day Psyonix broadcasts it. Everything else RLRS related can be team streams. While League play is running, there should be off weeks scheduled for LANs organized by DreamHack, ELeague, Intel, and etc to take place. I don't care how many of these LANs there are, but let's say there are 3 just to mimic the majors of the current year long system. Event organizers can run open qualifiers with the option of inviting a small number of teams. These LANs should be considered the new majors and teams can acquire points on a global level to qualify for Worlds. In summary, teams can qualify for worlds by being the best domestically or excelling internationally. Teams who are not currently in the RLCS League Play can still qualify through open qualifiers to Majors which could ultimately become a path to worlds through good performances. I'll leave it up to discussion how region spots should be handled for Majors and Worlds.

as someone from AUS like cj im a big rl fan but i dont get up to watch a match in the current format where as previously in league play i would actually get up just to watch a specific game cause i actually knew what was happening and the hype was there for each match unlike now when i dont really care and i just wait until the end and look at liquipedia and maybe rewatch the finals if its an interesting match up. and i also feel it allows smaller teams to build a following as they will eventually play a bigger team and it will have actual hype around it thats how i first came into contact with pk way back in league play cause they dominated the first couple weeks.

Qualify at beginning of winter. 16 teams 8 games in for regional one and two league play third regional is swoss format league play was for seating.

I think League play would be something new and refreshing - SSA has started it's first RSC season and it has been very interesting watching the teams in each division fight for as many game wins as possible. The format, unique teams and commitment from everyone involved has made the league highly competitive and fun to watch.

so far the only advantages of a league i see are first touch being incredibly more interesting, and having the esport be easier to explain to my friends. the first touch being interesting part is because it would be similar to the heated discussions people couldve had right before the winter major, as it was groups so a lot of matches were predetermined. besides "discussion" aspects the open format has been way better

hear me out: two splits, three regionals, first regional swiss, second groups into single elim, third double elim gulag, each regional has more points than the previous one and the major is a swiss as LCQ, then groups, then play offs

Let league play determine the seeding for the major. I’d rather be 14 seed than 15 seed. Then the bottom 8 go into a “relegation” style tournament against 17-24.

If we think there is real money and support in the rocket league community then I would suggest even more lan events , but that's scary compared to less committal online events.

As an adult with a job and a child, I agree with Tbates. I don't have time to watch rlcs for 4-5 hours everyday over the weekend. Let me know when the teams are playing and I'll watch what I can. Also, get the stream at night. I am unable to watch during the day because of family, work, etc

NBA you play everyone in your conference 4 times and every team in the other conference 2 times. 82 games.

I don't know when it happened, but although I used to dislike TBates (quite a few years ago), now when I see him appearing in RL content I'm like "oh fuck yes, shit's about to get real". He's such a great person to have involved in discussion (argument) content because he has often insane takes that he backs with real passion. TBates appearing in Johnny's videos is why I started watching First Touch and I love that show too.

I feel like something people don't talk about enough is that with league play, individual matches just don't mean as much as with a tournament. With traditional sports that's OK, because even not great teams in the top leagues have dedicated fanbases who will watch every game, even if they keep losing. Most esports teams just don't have that. The other reason that league play works in sports is through necessity, they simply can't play as many games in a short space of time as esports teams. Why not lean into what makes esports more unique?

I love the idea of just incorporating league play as the format for one split and then still having a other split resembling something similar to what we have had the last 2 years. As a viewer I'll watch whatever format it is though. It doesn't matter that much to me, but I've only watched for like a year and a half so I don't have the same level of burnout as some other people might.

I don't know if TBates will read this, but if you do, please know that you've brought smiles on many people's faces in the past few years with your commentary and content. Whether it happens later this year or later, I wish you the best in your future projects!

My idea for a hybrid circuit/league play format is to have 2 splits with 2 regionals each. The regional format would be 2 round robin groups of 8 and span a month each. So you get set matchups ahead of time along with 4 open qualifiers a year. Seems like a good balance to me

I nominate bates for RL commish

T3bates predicted alpha54

Did I just... Agreed with Tbates?

16 team league. bottom 2 automatically relegate, 14th and 13th play, loser relegates also. top 8 play offs ala AFL

Ngl I think tbates is in the right here

League play should follow a system to the premier league, but adding majors and worlds in throughout & the end of the season. The NFL comparison is alright, however more people will understand a premier league comparison due to soccer (Football) being a global sport like how RL is a global esport. Not everyone knows the NFL, but everyone has heard of the premier league.

OoOhH NoOoOoOoo

I must be an "Extreme fan" if I watch an 8 hour broadcast multiple days in a row 😄😅 Thought this was the norm for most RL fans?

TBates would be a tyrant as an org leader or coach lol

36:12 👌 we just need fewer regionals, the current format is pretty good imo... no league pls, there will be so many boring matches

Tbates the legend is back with us I love it

What about 10 team rlcs league and 10 team rlrs league play 5 top rlcs teams go to major 5 lowest teams fight for relegation the dead last gets automatically relegated but the remaining 4 go into a 8 group single/double elimination bracket with the 2-5 teams in rlrs The first placed team in rlrs qualifies for rlcs automatically And to get to rlrs you the bottom 5 get there via open qualifiers or something similar

Format doesn't increase viewership. Increase the age limit and allow for gambling. Fantasy football is why the NFL is still doing well. Let orgs have control of the team. Be way more entertaining for storyline when players hate each other and still have to team together, pure gold

Bates talking about the NFL is rough. You can tell he doesn't watch a lot.

Is there anything wrong with a split of league play then a split of tournaments? And each tournament has a different format. Nobody would be bored and great content would arise. The only problem is confusing new viewers.

I don't care what the format is, and I dont care about peak viewership. I care about consistent viewership, competition at the top and bottom, and underdog performances. If my team is second in league play and the top team is playing #5 Im gonna watch and root for #5 to help my team. I just think having months between games and then them all at once on a weekend isn't ever going to give consistent viewers as its all at once and many wont be able to set aside that time for rocket league. Give me 3-4 matches on fri, sat, and sunday, let me decide what games I want to watch that leads to a tournament that I know about in the future so I can plan. I mostly just cant stand going 4 months without pro play. thats gonna lose viewers more than anything.

Dang y’all didn’t even give special thanks at the end to TBates fire coming on. Rude.

Listening to Bates here makes the NFL system sound like the worst system for a sport I've heard hahaha You could be the second team of the entire tournament and not make playoffs based on that

Honestly since gamers8 is gonna be the world championship for esports why not have regional league play the top teams qualify for a LAN major that is also some sort of league play that gets you to the world championship? Unsure of the format or amount of teams Shorter seasons and more community events during the breaks 2v2s salt mine crew battles the lot But firstly, f the Saudis

Great discussion. I started watching during the current split structure so I’ve honestly been dying to see what league play would be like. As an NRG fan I do feel it was always disappointing waiting two weeks to watch a regional and have NRG bomb out on Friday then I didn’t even care to watch rest of the weekend. It would be a lot more fun imo with regularly scheduled matchup a few times a week so there more chance to watch every team. Plus the time of these regionals all day on Saturday and Sunday is horrible for anyone with obligations during the day. Prime time slots would be smarter for viewership. No idea what’s best but I have just been waiting to see something similar to league play to be honest

League play would be amazing, I love the tourneys and the media content we get around it, but instead of having one every 3 months, it would be a smaller one every week or 2. its disappointing waiting so long in between proper matches, just watching the content made by pros like squishy and appjack ect which is great but there is no investment for overall play. League play over 6 months then A worlds in the off season. least then every season would be an average of a players capabilities and not just a peak weekend, although then runs could happen like in real sports. As for the content coming out, you would have something fresh every week to discuss and then hype upcoming, as well as payer and org hype videos... that is why NRG have such a massive following, GarretG-Captain America himself. its less about the Org, more about the players, Appjack for GenG, Squishy for the Muffin men, ect Although the downside is as some of the players are younger and less experienced or willing to do such content. I think we would get so much more content and communication, updates, insight into the Pro teams with weekly matchups rather than just the big tourneys, butt hats just my take on it. Either way, we get some Rocket League.

TBates can be irritating. I know he's young but he states so many things as fact that very clearly aren't.

chalked cast fell off hard oofies X.X

League play is not a good idea. We can't compare in real life sports to virtual sports. Leagues or conferences exist simply due to geographical locations.

Yall couldn't be more wrong! I love Chalked Cast but yalls perspective is coming from maybe everyone on here being burnt out on the game. The people who watch this are still obsessed with the game. You are talking about shorting the season and limiting the amount of time 2 teams play each other, which is not what your fan base wants at all. We are ready for the season to start now!

As usual, Johnny has the most L takes. He says a thing that is pure opinion as if it were objectively true. Bates and CJ are right on this. Johnny just needs to be quiet and let the smart people in the room speak more, he makes the podcast worse.

League play is so boring.....80% of matches dont matter...knockouts is fun. Just my opinion